Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Steam R&D: => Topic started by: Oliver_Gerrard on July 05, 2017, 05:54:38 PM

Title: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: Oliver_Gerrard on July 05, 2017, 05:54:38 PM
Hello,

Apologies if this post in is the wrong section!

Thanks for taking the time to read this post, my name is Oliver Gerrard and I am making this post on behalf of my computer illiterate parents.

We have in our possession, a replica of the SL Branksome, the original of which I am sure you know resides on Lake Windermere.

The model was built by both my late grandad and late uncle, the former was a ships artificer in the Royal Navy and the latter was a Project Engineer on the Euro Fighter Typhoon. Both of these men were exceptionally skilled engineers in their respective fields. Sadly those skills were never passed on the rest of the family.

We are seeking a person, persons or society who can help us or be paid by us to complete this model and get her fit to sail as we do not have the acumen to do this ourselves - known issues with the model are the burner arrangement, regulator and the ships electrics plus whatever else you may uncover along the way though it is our understanding that there are not too many hurdles in the way of completion. The boiler has been pressure tested and we have the certificate to prove this, the engine has only run on compressed air though.

We strongly believe that the craftsmanship and hours already put into this model make her of museum quality and we have already approached the Steamboat Museum in Windermere to take her, sadly they have declined our offer and so we are also looking for somewhere we can house her on a loan basis too if anyone can help with that.

I welcome any of your thoughts and ideas and will try my hardest to reply to you all,

Regards

Oliver
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: chas on July 05, 2017, 07:03:53 PM
Wow. That is an exceptionally good piece of work.
 You could approach the Rochdale model engineering society, they are very well respected, and not far from Bolton, and like most modelers really nice people.
http://www.rsmee.com
The above web link is OK, watch out for a similar one that has been hacked.
Chas

Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: tony52 on July 06, 2017, 09:31:27 AM
The Bolton Steam Museum could be worth contacting. The museum mainly displays the mill engines from the past, but they do have other small exhibits and a team of skilled steam engineers.

https://www.nmes.org/ (https://www.nmes.org/)



 
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: BFSMP on July 08, 2017, 07:07:46 PM



Hello,
We strongly believe that the craftsmanship and hours already put into this model make her of museum quality and we have already approached the Steamboat Museum in Windermere to take her, sadly they have declined our offer and so we are also looking for somewhere we can house her on a loan basis too if anyone can help with that.
Oliver
unfortunately the Windermere steam boat museum are having their own problems at present and have been for some time. It is also a sad case that most of these small museums don't have the staff to look after the large as life exhibits let alone models, as beautiful as yours is. in fact I think from memory they had a model of Branksome in the museum which was the original model built by a magnificent modeller called Keith Townsend if memory serves me. He then released a limited number of replica numbered kits of the same model. View here.
 
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23271/lot/22/?category=list (https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23271/lot/22/?category=list)   

and that at 20 - 30 k was only number 07 of his limited number of kits. think what the museum has to insure his original for.

also NOW ADAYS,  in our "sue anyone mentality", small museums are somewhat loathed to take models on "long term loan" because of insurance pay-outs and law suits should someone's beloved  model be damaged or stolen from the museum. I know that Fleetwood museum, which is now run by a rust, is desperately short in funds, and don't take donations with great heart, and if they do, the models which take up space which sadly few give more than glancing looks these days, put them straight into storage in the damp cellars.

To be honest, working or not, it would be better sat on a nice sideboard, not near radiators in your own house just for you to look at with joy and nostalgia.

Jim.


just as an afterthought and having looked at the engines on both your model and the model at Bonhams, are you not sure that this model you own might be one of the limited number of kits Supplied by Keith Townsend..... those kits sold in the 1980's for [ at the time] an astronomical 2500.00 +  VAT
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: Oliver_Gerrard on July 18, 2017, 07:40:12 PM
Hello!

I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to look at this posting and offering me suggestions of where to go with her completion!

I have made contact with the Bolton Steam Museum and we are in the process of arranging for some of their senior engineers to have a look at the engine and see what needs to be done with it. Sadly we are unable to locate the pressure test certificate for the boiler so we are looking at completing that process again.

The Rochdale model engineers have been contacted but I am still await a reply from them.

In reply to "BFSMP" but also for everyone else:

I have spoken to my father who has managed to find the original plans for this model, he says that the plans say on them:  "Windermere nautical trust limited 1978 production of one model per person, Windermere steamboat museum full size drawings" and it is with these drawing that the boat was made.

We are still desperately seeking a model boat builder who may be able to take a look at her and offer us some advice on completing her, so if you are that person or you know of that person please rely to this posting with your thoughts and ideas.

Thank you very much for your time and effort so far!

More updates to follow...

Oliver
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: steamboatmodel on July 19, 2017, 04:18:29 PM

Oliver you have a jewel there. I remember reading in Model Boats Magazine the descriptions of Keith Townsends builds. I remember that those who bought one of his models received a set of plans too. If you model was not built by Keith it was built too his plans (which were very expensive themselves) by someone who was very skilled. I hope you manage to get is squared away and Bristol fashion. I would love to see a video of it steaming.
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: frazer heslop on July 20, 2017, 11:07:51 AM
From memory, The model is to large to be a Townsend and Im sure he built a more realistic copy of a Sissons compound engine.Although the engine wasn't a true compound simply a DA twin
The trust at that time did sell drawings to build from and I believe this model has been built from them but beware they made a few errors .
You have a fine model that deserves to be put back into use. Im sorry I cannot help you as Iv to many of my own toys to build
Good luck with youre search it maybe worth trying to contact the likes of Kieth Appleton from his utube channel
cheers
frazer
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: flashtwo on September 19, 2017, 07:45:04 PM

Hi Oliver,


The engine looks like a Stuart D10 the same type as I have installed on my 2-metre  Edwardian Steam Launch and driving a 5inch 4-bladed prop!


Make sure you have a working steam safety valve and is set correctly.


Best regards


Ian Gerrard (St Helens branch)











Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: John R Haynes on October 07, 2017, 01:41:54 PM
All the Windermere plans were drawn by me many years ago when I had access to the boats when they were drydocked for the winter. No one else was permitted to access the boats .These took a few years in cold sheds and near freezing conditions  .I used to supply the Museum with sets of plans for a while but when I left the Lake District Keith came to see me and purchased the remaining plans and my copyright to protect his own business. What happened after that I do not know but on those plans was my copyright when I traded as Maritime Models in the late 70's/early 80's. Now and for decades since I have traded under my own name  www.johnrhaynes.com
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: steamboatmodel on October 07, 2017, 02:26:44 PM

Hi John,
If Keith bought the copyrights does that mean you can not sell any copies of them without his permission?
 I looked through your site and the only plans I seen listed were JRH867 Turbinia Plans (http://johnrhaynes.com/catalog/fitting-list/product/JRH867/?).
I did see page after page of some nice fittings, unfortunately not in any scale I model.
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: John R Haynes on October 07, 2017, 03:57:03 PM
That's right , however Keith died years ago and I have no idea what happened to the plans or the copyright.
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: steamboatmodel on October 07, 2017, 05:21:12 PM

That's right , however Keith died years ago and I have no idea what happened to the plans or the copyright.
That is a shame, and probably no way to do other ones of it.
Gerald.
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: pendlesteam on October 08, 2017, 12:52:29 PM
Hi. I will gladly check the boiler and burner and fully test and certify it for you if it is to go to a museum - for free.
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: Oliver_Gerrard on January 29, 2019, 07:05:07 PM
Hi. I will gladly check the boiler and burner and fully test and certify it for you if it is to go to a museum - for free.
Almost 18 months since my initial posting and I'm back trying to get this model seaworthy (I'm in the RAF and have been away sometime).

Many thanks to pendlesteam for offering assistance in getting the boiler pressure tested, even more noble of him to offer assistance for free.

One step closer to completion.

I will endeavour to upload some hi resolution colour photos in the coming months for you all to peruse.
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: Oliver_Gerrard on July 27, 2019, 07:16:36 PM
Hello everyone, I have finally got around to uploading some proper pictures of our model of the Branksome. I am still in desperate need of anyone who can off help/advice in getting her completed. I will be uploading in the next couple of days, a complete list of everything that we know needs looking at.

Hope these give you all a better understanding of the craftsmanship and quality of the build!


Oliver


- The green curtain does not belong on the ship - it was added to show what it would look like whilst the correct curtain was on order - we have no idea what happened to it!
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: Oliver_Gerrard on July 27, 2019, 07:23:50 PM
Here are all the updated pictures:


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1na1Ti6jb1UHYwLsi2oJwGhkv1kfyXrbH

Regards,

Oliver
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: rhavrane on July 27, 2019, 08:32:07 PM
Bonjour Oliver,
Beautiful steam launch indeed ! Just a concern, How do you plan to install a burner as it seems there is no room for it ?
Visual effect of the pictures ? Nigel (Pendlesteam) makes efficient vertical ones, but they need however some space :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nd5KxzVkQo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nd5KxzVkQo)
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: Oliver_Gerrard on July 27, 2019, 10:26:56 PM
I have to confess, none of our family have any ideas - all we know is that yes, it was intended to have a burner. Any thoughts on what the best way of installing one would be?
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: Liverbudgie on July 27, 2019, 11:33:27 PM
Branksome is now one of the major exhibits to be seen at the Windermere Jetty museum, she has been restored to a degree but, there no intention of putting her back in the water, at least in the foreseeable future.

All the copyrights to Keith Townsends drawing's now belong to his widow, Gill.

LB

Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: derekwarner on July 28, 2019, 06:53:06 AM
Hullo Oliver....the Branksome is certainly an elegant vessel


Just viewing the images I question not only the gas burner issue, but that of condensation.....


Please correct me if I misunderstand,


1. the inlet steam from the boiler approaches the engine in an insulated tube....I have marked this in red arrows
2. the steam then completes a 360 degree loop via a R/C servo controlled steam regulator
3. the steam exiting the regulator passes through the steam oil lubricator the to both steam inlet ports on the engine
4. the exhaust line from the engine is marked in blue arrows..... I have no comment on the exhaust steam line



5. the area of concern is the physical mass of the steam regulator, and the condensing effect it will have on the inlet steam
6. you could consider the mass of the bronze block, and the volume of steam at x degrees C to raise the temperature of the block to that of the engines running temperature
7. an alternate trial will confirm that the regulator is controlling hot water and providing a useless feed for the engine, only requiring exhausting via the engine drain valves

My only advice is to join a locally based model boating Club with a steam membership....they don't bite and will offer sound advice on the complete steam build





Derek
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: derekwarner on July 29, 2019, 12:02:23 AM
Back again Oliver ...


Your images suggest the oily exhaust steam exiting the engine is tubed directly to the top side of the boiler or mouth of the funnel to be drawn upwards with the boiler exhaust gas to atmosphere


This is common practice for stationary or land based models, however when used as such in a marine environment will result in tell tale oily rainbow spots and circles on the waterway which is naturally universally termed as pollution



To counter this in marine models, a small de-oiler tank [often called or mis-represented as a condenser] is used in the exhaust steam line between the engine and chimney. This collects the oil leaving clean steam to exit the chimney


Again, members of that 'as suggested' model boat club will be able to recommend a suitable de-oiler


Derek
Title: Re: SL Branksome - HELP!
Post by: Charlie on July 29, 2019, 10:44:32 AM
Hi Oliver,


To be honest, Steam Boats are quite a small niche in the hobby. I doubt you will find anyone on here who can actually do the work for you, which is what you appear to need. You could try joining this Facebook Group, which is dedicated to Steam Boat models, where you may have a better chance of getting the assistance you need.


https://www.facebook.com/Modelsteamboats/ (https://www.facebook.com/Modelsteamboats/)


https://www.facebook.com/groups/275916296256040/?source_id=431505110290349 (https://www.facebook.com/groups/275916296256040/?source_id=431505110290349)


Good luck!


Charlie