Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Gaci4 on July 23, 2017, 07:31:41 PM

Title: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on July 23, 2017, 07:31:41 PM
HI to everyone on here, I've now gotten to the stage where I'd like to build a speedboat, I've built everything else and am keen on build and rc , so I just need to know what running gear would be suitable for the wasabi 900e inside and outside. Any help with be much appreciated, I also plan on putting pictures of my build as I go along. Many thanks GrantGra

( Topic renamed )   :-)
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: chas on July 23, 2017, 11:25:12 PM
Google is very helpful with this model, lots of stuff on there. Have a look and ask about ant specifics that aren't clear.

Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: canabus on July 24, 2017, 07:11:57 AM
Hi Gaci14
Link to an American website for fast boats.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/forum.php
Canabus
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 24, 2017, 10:18:13 AM
Cheers for info already looked at those sites, I posted the question in the hope that people with more experience with relation to the size of the boat and what running equipment they have used? Is there an equation that works out the size of rudder, turn fins etc when the length of boat is 900mm
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 24, 2017, 11:31:39 AM
Hi Gaci14,

How fast do you want it to be able to go and for how long?
Will you make it selfrighting by installing a floodchamber?
What is your budget?

Some of the things I'd like to know, before making suggestions.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 24, 2017, 12:41:13 PM
HI Jan, thanks for getting in touch, I will be making a flood chamber in it, about 30-40mph or maybe faster for as long as the batteries last I would get spare batteries yo continue having fun, it will be going on canal,river and sea. Budget is few hundred to start with. Thanks for help Jan.
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: canabus on July 24, 2017, 01:16:28 PM
Hi Gaci14
I would make frames 3 and 5 solid as to have separate float chambers.
The extra weight would not be that much, better than a lost boat!!
Canabus
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 24, 2017, 01:37:42 PM
Was going to before I put top on fill the front end with polystyrene beads or expanding foam, is there a set of calculations you know of about centre of wait and length of rudder etc etc
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 24, 2017, 03:25:18 PM
Hi Grant,

30 or 40 mph is peanuts for a hull this size, running it would be sooo boring...

The Wasabi 900 will run easily 50 - 60+ mph, depending on your choice of prop and motor.

I'd go for a 40 mm motor like this:
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html
On 6S you'll have about 34000 rpm under load.
This is a hot set-up and will be a steep learning curve getting to grips with setting up and handling.

If you 'have to' spend more money, a TP 4060 1650Kv is also an option:
http://www.tppowereurope.com/Webwinkel-Product-49262371/TP4060.html

ESC: for the TFL 4082 1750 Kv you can get away with the Flycolor 150A:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-Waterproof-150A-Brushless-ESC-with-5-5V-5A-BEC-for-RC-Boat-Cool-W6O8/351783929159?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37182%26meid%3Df5c53221ce004825b4fd48353a282309%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D141944856772#shpCntId
Make sure to order the programming box with whatever ESC you order, it makes life so much easier.

For the TP4060, I'd go with this one:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-marine-180a-bec-waterproof-speed-controller-with-water-cooling.html

Lipo's: as you're going for a floodchamber, measure what will fit between the propshaft/motor and the floodchamber wall, as the lipo('s) will have to find their place on the floodchamber wall.

The reason for this is to shift the weight to the left at rest, so when the boat is upside down, the floodchamber will fill with water, making the boat flip back up again.
With the Lipo in the center of the hull, the floodchamber won't work, unless you attach ( a lot of) lead weights to the left rear side.

Depending on the position of the motor you can go for one 6S Lipo (= motor in the rear with the Lipo in front and to the left), or two 3S lipo's wired in series (= motor more forward with both lipo's on end against the floodchamber wall).

Let me know if you have more questions.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 24, 2017, 04:25:16 PM
That's brilliant Jan, the esc why such a large amp, is there a large load when under force from motor? I will search for reference for the flood chamber as not quite sure where the hole should go to let water in and then out, I thought that maybe a pipe in the bottom would create a vacuum to remove the water while running but the filling is a ? I will certainly be going for the bigger motor and esc. 
Do you know of any calculations to work out size of rudder and turn fins? As far as props go I researched a x442 octura  or x447 what do you think.
I also need to know flexible or solid drive shaft?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 24, 2017, 05:25:51 PM
Hi Grant,

In fact both ESC's are on the modest side for the motors I linked to; the 100A of the 4082 is what the motor can handle continuously without lighting up...
Getting out of the hole and accelerating out of a turn, the motor will happily draw twice as much current for a few seconds, your ESC has to be able to handle that.
The TP4060 can handle twice the continuous current (200A!) and will also easily draw burst twice that, again, your ESC has to be able to handle that.

When the boat is running on the plane and is properly dialed in (no wet running = huge drag & ampdraw) but running on the last few inches of the hull, both motors and ESCs will easily handle the 900cm hull.

A 42 mm prop is too small to utilize the potential of the motors, but is a nice place to start, start small and work your way up. Keep in mind that larger props will generate more propwalk, something to consider when installing the drivetrain (off-center to the right to counteract propwalk, or not).

The Wasabi can by built with a flexshaft or a (long) solid shaft, both will work equally well, but a solid shaft needs to be installed correctly, as you'll have no adjustment possibilities like with a stinger or strut.

The lack of maintenance (other than a yearly relube) of a solid shaft is the reason all my fast electrics run solid shafts (2 mm wire drive with 4 mm endpiece to keep the mass down).
Installing a solid shaft right is no witchcraft...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 24, 2017, 06:15:00 PM
Cheers Jan, I've took all that in, I did read about putting the prop shaft slightly higher and to the right to stop walk. I'm just working out what plywood to order, our local timber merchant sells rubbish plywood so I'm looking online. Many thanks Jan for the advise
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 24, 2017, 08:47:11 PM
Hi Grant,

Look for Baltic birch, should be available in a variety of thickness.
https://www.google.nl/search?newwindow=1&client=firefox-b&q=baltic+birch+plywood+supplier+uk&oq=baltic+birch+plywood+UK&gs_l=serp.1.1.0i19k1j0i22i30i19k1l5.209172.209768.0.213231.2.2.0.0.0.0.200.365.0j1j1.2.0....0...1.1.64.serp..0.2.363.q2SPRull7U4

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 25, 2017, 11:36:49 AM
HI Jan, sorted plywood multiple layer instead of rubbish. On another boat forum somebody wrote about an equal to the wasabi I would like you to read it and see if you agree as you've been the most helpful.


looking at the plans the rudder is 60mm deep and 13mm wide.
[/size]The turn fin is 35mm deep and 18mm wide.
[/size]Going on about the same size boat on the Hobbyking site.
[/size]The Ariane 2(930mm) has a 3660-2075kv(water cooled)brushless motor with a 125Ammp water cooled ESC running a 5000mah 4S Lipo battery.
[/size]No prop size given sadly.
[/size]Rudder servo 3KG+..
[/size]They have a good number of drive unit with flex drive cables.
[/size]With that powered motor I go 5mm flex drive.
[/size]Now I thought the rudder had to be a percentage of the total length and the same as the turn fins.?
[/size]Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 25, 2017, 05:03:31 PM

1)looking at the plans the rudder is 60mm deep and 13mm wide.
2)The turn fin is 35mm deep and 18mm wide.
3)Going on about the same size boat on the Hobbyking site.
The Ariane 2(930mm) has a 3660-2075kv(water cooled)brushless motor with a 125Ammp water cooled ESC running a 5000mah 4S Lipo battery.
No prop size given sadly.
Rudder servo 3KG+..
They have a good number of drive unit with flex drive cables.
With that powered motor I go 5mm flex drive.
Now I thought the rudder had to be a percentage of the total length and the same as the turn fins.?
Grant
Hi Grant,

Which forum would that be, got a link?

By the numbers:
1) a rudder that short is for when you've dialed out all bad behaviour and you're ready for a bit less drag and a little more nervous behaviour. I'd start with a longer rudderblade.
Important is to have the rudderblad next to the prop, to further counteract propwalk (next to the offcenter driveline).
2) a turnfin only gets wet when the boat banks into a turn, finding out which shape works best (for you) is part of the dialing in process.

3) the Ariane (2) is a nice hull from TFL, the Hobbyking version comes badly undermotorized with (sub)standard hardware, delivered like this, it's aiming at the beginner who wants a stunning looking boat, but not the maximum performance.
Basically that's a good thing, as most people without any boating experience would reduce a high powered version to rubble in a matter of minutes.

In the comments on the HK site I found this: (my comments in red between brackets)

my best rc boat!
 -totally carbon reinforcing (no idea if he means adding carbon reinforments to the new hull, which is good, or talks about the stock carbon hull)
 -esc swordfish 220A 6S with datalogger (nice ESC)
 -motor TP power 4060 1380KV (a bit low for 6S, only 27000 rpm under load)
 -battery 2x 6S Bolt 5400 (most likely wired in parallel, wired in series would be insane, with over 50.000 rpm under load, very hard on the drivetrain)
 -total jeti telemetry (nice if you know what too look for/at)
 Results 120km/h gps mesured. (nothing to sneeze at, very good for a hull this size)
 little 106km/h video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRBLOhQMzD4
 second: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rROeoJQxqQ

As you can see a similar set-up as I suggested.
Too bad the weight of the camera on the nose hasn't been compensated with weight in the rear, so despite the tons of power, the boat runs crap (too wet) and can't be run full throttle without it getting very unstable, rookie mistake.

Understand that in spite of the carbon hull of the version 2, it still needs beefing up if you're going to install a lot more power, as the bottom section will flex under load, reeking havoc on the running attitude.
A couple of carbon rods, glassed in the hull, reinforcing the large unsupported flat parts of the rear of the hull is probably sufficient.

Paul (785boater) on the RCG forum has built up the glass version and he reinforces most of his hulls in this way.

Depending on how the hull is built, personally I always add a layer of glasscloth and epoxy inside a bare hull to avoid gelcoat cracking on cheaply built Chinese hulls.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: floodchamber
Post by: pompebled on July 25, 2017, 05:25:19 PM
I will search for reference for the flood chamber as not quite sure where the hole should go to let water in and then out, I thought that maybe a pipe in the bottom would create a vacuum to remove the water while running but the filling is a ?
Hi Grant,

I overlooked your question regarding the functioning of a floodchamber.
A floodchamber is nothing more than a section on the left side of the hull closed off from the rest of the interior of the boat.
In the transom there's a hole, usually the size of the floodchamber width, to allow the water to rush out when you hit the throttle.

When flipped, the water enters the floodchamber through the hole in the transom and slits in the top.

I added two pictures of the smaller (800mm) Arowana, with a topview of how the heavy goodies inside are all on the left, you can also see the size of the floodchamber holding 2,5L, still needed some lead to make the boat flip back up reliable.

The row of airing slits can be seen in the purple section on the highest point.

The other is the transom, looking into the floodchamber.

Let me know if you have more questions or need more pictures.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 25, 2017, 05:45:17 PM
That's great Jan, I can see how it works now, I assume that the front of the boat is filled with buoyancy material. I couldn't see the the slits you mentioned , I have seen a few videos on the Ariana on the first video on YouTube you quoted I see there is a hole on the right hand side of the boat is that to help water flood in if it goes over?
The quote I put in before was from modelboat.co.uk
If you've anymore photos of areas I need to pay attention to while on the build they would be thankfully received. Apart from internet and YouTube I'm starting this project blind and learning as I go.
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 25, 2017, 06:00:22 PM
Jan, I've also noticed your drive shaft hole is slightly of centre to the right ?.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 25, 2017, 09:03:11 PM
Hi Grant,

My bad, I had to crop the pictures due to the size limits and took off the slits....

If you look at the floodchamber picture from the rear, imagine a series of slits in the highest part if the curved top.

In hindsight, the offset is too little, as I still experience propwalk with larger props.
At the moment the offset is 10 mm ( of the stuffing tube), If I were to build another single prop monohull  this size, (a Jetchopper30 is on the shelf, waiting to be kitted out) the offset would be 12-15 mm.

I don't have boyancy in the nose, my set-up is a bit weight sensitive and extra weight will bring the nodse down too far, making the hull run wet.
In fact, I don't have boyancy in any of my boats, they are built waterproof and due to the reinforcement, not likely to spring a leak...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 27, 2017, 11:29:00 AM
Plywood has arrived, will be installing a flood chamber as i build, just thinking should I make a fibre glass mould for the bottom of the hull  or just fibre glass if inside and out before I fix the top on.any thoughts on it. Not bought any hardware yet, going to build boat first. Looking at   putting in a flood chamber and just in case a float chamber as said before in thread. 
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 27, 2017, 03:32:36 PM
Hi Grant,

When you apply a layer of glasscloth and epoxy on the outside (before you glue on the strakes!) and only epoxy the inside (no glasscloth) so the wood is waterproofed, the hull will be light and strong, provided you use a good quality plywood (multiple layers and not paperthin).

HK sells suitable glasscloth:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/glass-fiber-cloth-500x1000mm-light-weight.html (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/glass-fiber-cloth-500x1000mm-light-weight.html)
Or: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/glass-fiber-cloth-500x1000mm-medium-weight.html (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/glass-fiber-cloth-500x1000mm-medium-weight.html)

Hobbyking also sells epoxy, but I would get that locally in (at least) a half a liter package, as what HK sells are very small amounts, not enough for the interior and the outside of the hull.
If you get the 24h(!) epoxy resin locally, you could also get the glasscloth there, go for 160 gr/m Twill weave.

How heavy the glasscloth should be, depends on the plywood you're sheeting the bottom (and top) with.

My 110 cm M.A.S. is built out of cheap poplar ply 3,2 mm thick from the local building market, it is very light, which was important, as the M.A.S. is a stepped design, making the hull too heavy compromises the performance.

There is a build thread on this forum, but I'm in the process of putting in the pictures (again) which hasn't been done yet, here's a link to the RCG forum where you can see the pictures and two video's:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1551192-Motoscafo-Anti-Sommergibile&highlight=Motoscafo (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1551192-Motoscafo-Anti-Sommergibile&highlight=Motoscafo) Anti Sommergibile
In post #2 are pictures on how I went about glassing this hull with its square angles, part of the way of applying the glasscloth, also applies on the Wasabi hull, in particular the transom, where the edges should remain sharp.

Something to keep in mind, before you put on the bottom sheeting, is to cut drain holes in the ribbing next to the floodchamber wall; that way there will be no water trapped behind those ribs when the floodchamber drains after a flip.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 27, 2017, 04:55:46 PM
Hi Jan, I can't Thank you enough for how helpful you've been/being I appreciate it. I purchased as the plans state 6mm for the frames 3mm for some frame work and 2mm to cover it. All the plywood was birch ply on ply good quality a lot better than the builder merchant. I will be using epoxy may even colour the bottom of the hull using woven and possibly fine tissue make a nice smooth job of it. I will be making a float chamber between 3 and 5 just in case it all goes wrong and a flood chamber down the left side putting some slats in the top to aid flooding. May change the top shape but other than the modifications I will be copying the wasabi plans to the T. Can't wait to start buying electrics I assume everything is either waterproof or marine classification. I'll use my flysky transmitter got 3 channels so may add some lights  :-))
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 27, 2017, 05:41:04 PM
Make sure you use very very light cloth to cover the hull or you will add too much weight.This is all you need to use its .25g,they also have epoxy,you need laminating epoxy resin . I build boats for a living, to be honest if the boats built right you don't really need any cloth on the outside . Just make sure you reinforce all the joints as you go .I used to run a zippkits hydro i built it was plywood construction and i only reinforced the joints inside then sealed outside with epoxy resin .She crashed a few times at over 60 mph and never more than a scratch .
If you really want to cover it then use this cloth it drapes well around shapes and should cover the bottom and sides in one piece no problem.Heres a few pics of one my son built for school project a few years back he covered it in cloth and epoxy as the plywood was cheap outdoor grade ply.Hull is a scaled down gas mono from free plans so easy to build much easier than the wasabi,if you havent started yours yet do a search for prowler mono plans its a great running boat and easy to build and doesnt need running strakes,adds too much lift just add spray rails on the chines as seen in the pics.
https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/product/glassfibre-cloth-25g-sq-mtr-1-mtr-wide (https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/product/glassfibre-cloth-25g-sq-mtr-1-mtr-wide)
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 27, 2017, 05:47:07 PM
Thank you martno1fan for that information I will check them out. Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 27, 2017, 05:58:49 PM
No worries mate ive been watching just kept quiet as Jan was giving you some good advice,but fiberglassing is what i do so figured id let you know about the cloth and where to get it along with resin etc.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 27, 2017, 06:10:16 PM
No that's brilliant I will certainly be looking closely at what you be recommended I knew it had to be a light weight cloth, all advice is gratefully received from anyone with experience  :-))
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 27, 2017, 06:41:05 PM
Just one question do you use epoxy glue to make the frame or waterproof glue ?


Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 27, 2017, 06:54:39 PM
HI martno1fan, what epoxy resin would you recommend on the site you said to get fibreglass cloth ? Cheers Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 27, 2017, 06:55:24 PM
I use epoxy glue personally but the cloth needs to be done with epoxy laminating resin not to be confused .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 27, 2017, 07:04:43 PM
I use this epoxy,you can also use it for gluing by adding the right hardner.If you email them and tell them what uses its for they will give you the correct ratios to mix it for gluing and for laminating the cloth ,theyre very helpful and are willing to talk you through it on the phone .iF you want to use glue you can use aliphatic resin,it sets pretty quick and is water proof and you can wash your hands with water always a bonus lol.
https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/product/west-system-105-epoxy-resin (https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/product/west-system-105-epoxy-resin)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deluxe-Materials-Aliphatic-Resin-112g-4oz-/263086578105?hash=item3d412e99b9:g:ePkAAOSwWxNYy6kg
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 27, 2017, 08:48:15 PM
Hi Grant,

Mart is right regarding the thickness of the glasscloth, I was erring on the safe side, not knowing what kind of ply you had bought for covering the bottom.

If you saw the pictures on my M.A.S. build, you'd have seen I used similar thin glasscloth to cover my soft and light poplar ply, works like a charm, but I must say, the softer wood underneath makes it prone to dents when you hit something.
With birch ply that won't happen so easily.

I have worked in the polyester industry for a while, making molds and products out of them, model boathulls are similar, but not the same, so while my techniques apply, Marts expertise in what to use takes precedent.
After developing an allergy for polyester, I switched to another job, and kept working at home with epoxy resin instead.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 28, 2017, 07:02:19 AM
As for servos I require 2 is there a brand you recommend, I was looking at kyosho or savox ? Or should i get one of those servo boxes like this ebay listing 331178904325  . Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 28, 2017, 02:04:37 PM
HI Jan and Martin, would these servos be ok to use for I gather these pull 9kg /cm or is it the case the more torque the better?
Kyosho 1/8 FO-XX 4WD RS * PERFEX KS-5031-09 MW METAL GEAR STEERING SERVO

Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 28, 2017, 03:23:44 PM
Hi Grant,

Using a metal gear servo is smart, as the forces that act on the rudder, specially when entering the water after a flip, are nothing to sneeze at.
From time to time I get myself a number of these servo's: https://www.banggood.com/4X-TowerPro-MG996R-Metal-Gear-Digital-High-Torque-Servo-55g-p-983215.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=srm-sbgn-ds-all&utm_content=all&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwevLBRCGARIsAKnAJvchI0ic9Q0i4KOR4zTEUIOUBNPCGZXHxNqoPULQJz06IktQ09FE6Q8aAvcrEALw_wcB

These are strong enough for all of my boats, I used over 20 of this servo (and it's predecessor the MG995) over the years and have had just one failure, due to water ingress.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 28, 2017, 03:46:28 PM
10kg/cm  and over then probably get a digital metal gear, you'll be the best to know, should i get a box to hold the electric side of things in, I've seen there is a box with slots cut especially for the use on boats. ?
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 28, 2017, 04:02:54 PM
HI Jan could you take a look at these and see if I've got it right before I purchase of HK.

Turnigy AquaStar 3974-2200KV Water Cooled Brushless Motor or

Turnigy AquaStar 4084-620KV Water Cooled Brushless Motor

Turnigy AquaStar 160A Water Cooled ESC


USB Programmer for Turnigy AquaStar Speed Controllers


Turnigy AquaStar Water Cooled ESC Program Box
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 28, 2017, 04:06:02 PM
Hi Grant,

A radio box is for boats with an internal combustion engine, these need air and the boat can't be taped shut, so a little water will always find it's way into the hull, messing with the electronics.

A fast electric is taped shut, so it is basically watertight.
In my fast electrics I have no waterproofed ESC, servo, or receiver, the boats are watertight during the run.

A piece of kitchen towel on the deepest point in the hull absorbs the few drops that find their way inside via the stuffing tube.

With a floodchamber, you don't even have room for a radio box, as it'll upset the balance, rendering the floodchamber useless.
I added a picture of the internals of my Arowana, including the slits in the top of the floodchamber; the extension in the hull is the floodchamber top and side wall, against it you see the ESC and battery.
On the right side there's only the servo and the receiver, tucked away under the edge about where the red arrow point at,
all heavy stuff sits left of the center line, a must for a functioning floodchamber.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 28, 2017, 04:18:04 PM
Ahh now it all makes sense, as they say a picture speaks a thousand words. I'm looking on HK  they seem to have a lot of gear I've put a reply on before to see what you think of the selection I've made before I purchase. If you could give your thoughts about them that would be great  :D
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 28, 2017, 04:36:05 PM
Hi Grant,

What causes you to start looking for smaller and cheaper motors?
I will certainly be going for the bigger motor and esc. 

Rule of thumb is to aim for 28000 - 32000 rpm under load

My son runs this motor in his 800mm Arowana: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-3974-2200kv-water-cooled-brushless-motor.html (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-3974-2200kv-water-cooled-brushless-motor.html)
On 4S (14,8V) that's about 28500 rpm under load, on the low end of the sweet spot.
It's 'only' 1200W, sufficient for a 4S Arowana, but on the low side for a 900mm Wasabi.

The other motor you mention is this one: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-4084-620kv-water-cooled-brushless-motor.html (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-4084-620kv-water-cooled-brushless-motor.html)

In order to get the rpm required you need to run this motor on 12S (44,4V), giving you 25000 rpm under load.
I see several issues with this option:
- The motor is rated for 10S maximum, which leaves you with just 20000 rpm under load.
- With 10S or 12S on board, the boat will be quite heavy, reducing it's runtime and speed.
- With a 10-12S set-up the floodchamber is no longer an option, there's not enough room for the batteries left of the center line.

I specifically chose the motors in my first suggestion with sufficient rpm/Volt and Wattage to accommodate the size of the Wasabi with a floodchamber.

The 160A ESC doesn't get good reviews: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-160a-water-cooled-esc.html

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 28, 2017, 04:45:49 PM
I will have to re-look at that post again, sorry about that. With regards to the esc programmer and us thing are they necessary ?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 28, 2017, 05:05:21 PM
Hi Grant,

If you want to keep the budget within reason, go for this motor: https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html

With this cooler: https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Wasserkuehlung--Nippel/fuer-BL--Motore/ab-40-mm/Kuehlmantel-fuer-40er-Brushlessmotor--70-mm-lang--schwarz.html (https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Wasserkuehlung--Nippel/fuer-BL--Motore/ab-40-mm/Kuehlmantel-fuer-40er-Brushlessmotor--70-mm-lang--schwarz.html)

And a Flycolor 150A ESC: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-Waterproof-150A-Brushless-ESC-with-5-5V-5A-BEC-for-RC-Boat/302315187681?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45702%26meid%3D1dc1f79d0bf6496c93af22539e28c98f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D141944856772 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-Waterproof-150A-Brushless-ESC-with-5-5V-5A-BEC-for-RC-Boat/302315187681?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45702%26meid%3D1dc1f79d0bf6496c93af22539e28c98f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D141944856772)

Running on 6S.

Without a programming card/box, you'll have to count beeps in order to be able to program the ESC, depending on the make and model this can prove to be a hair raising experience, which can take hours before you understand what's going on (been there, done that, bought the programming cards)...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 28, 2017, 05:23:07 PM
HI Jan, youll have to excuse me , ive now read up on electric brushless motors ive always run petrol engines. So as it goes 4084 is diameter of motor and length- 1650kv is revolutions per bolt I didn't realise till read up that the one motor was very under powered. 

Turnigy Marine 180A BEC Waterproof Speed Controller with Water Cooling ? Any good ??

With programme card and usb thing if needed. Some of the items you've said aren't available in UK.

Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 28, 2017, 05:40:29 PM
Jan, is this motor any good. http://www.performancemodels.co.uk/product/red-leopard-lbp4074-2000kv-class-inrunner-brushless-motor/  I only say this as it's available in UK.
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 28, 2017, 11:00:46 PM
Hi Grant,

The consensus among boaters, is that the ss motors are better, or at least as good as the Leopard, the TP are a notch better than both.
The motor you linked to is shorter than the 4082 ones, meaning less torque, which would be compensated with a higher Kv, meaning a smaller prop compared to the lower Kv options. Running smaller props also has consequenses for the height of the propshaft exiting the transom.
2000Kv on 6S gives you crazy high rpm under load for a boat this size ( close to 40.000 rpm, that's SAW territory and hard on the drivetrain, requiring high quality (expensive) hardware. Not my favourite option).
I don't like the fact the picture shows a typical car motor (with the wiring coming out the side), reducing the length of the watercooling jacket if you also want to use a rear support ring, I prefer the wiring through the endbell.
All in all a lesser motor.

Are you saying you prefer to get everything 'locally'? Or that you can't find a supplier for the SS and TP motors in the UK?

Personally I always look for the best bargain, regardless of which part of the world it's shipped from (in the end, most of it comes from China..., most sellers of the ESC can also supply the fitting programming card).

The Turnigy Marine is the V3, which isn't viewed as being as good as the V2.
I can't speak from experience as I haven't used either of them.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 29, 2017, 11:59:18 AM
Hi Grant,

If you want to keep the budget within reason, go for this motor: https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html (https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html)

With this cooler: https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Wasserkuehlung--Nippel/fuer-BL--Motore/ab-40-mm/Kuehlmantel-fuer-40er-Brushlessmotor--70-mm-lang--schwarz.html (https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Wasserkuehlung--Nippel/fuer-BL--Motore/ab-40-mm/Kuehlmantel-fuer-40er-Brushlessmotor--70-mm-lang--schwarz.html)

And a Flycolor 150A ESC: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-Waterproof-150A-Brushless-ESC-with-5-5V-5A-BEC-for-RC-Boat/302315187681?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45702%26meid%3D1dc1f79d0bf6496c93af22539e28c98f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D141944856772 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-Waterproof-150A-Brushless-ESC-with-5-5V-5A-BEC-for-RC-Boat/302315187681?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45702%26meid%3D1dc1f79d0bf6496c93af22539e28c98f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D141944856772)

Running on 6S.

Without a programming card/box, you'll have to count beeps in order to be able to program the ESC, depending on the make and model this can prove to be a hair raising experience, which can take hours before you understand what's going on (been there, done that, bought the programming cards)...

Regards, Jan.

I cant argue with this haha,perfect advice and would be my choice too,only thing id maybe do is swap that motor for the 4092 if you can get it as it has a bit more power been longer but maybe not needed  :} .Regards servos you cant beat the savox brand theyre super if you can get those a ta good price also anything over 10 kg torque wise is what you want and as Jan says metal gears .Ive also used those cheap servos Jan mentioned on my large Apache gas boats without any issues so you should be fine with those too,be aware they can make funny noises but its normal  {-) .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 29, 2017, 12:12:44 PM
This motor would work perfect on 6s and its in the UK warehouse .For esc get the flycolour ones from China Jan suggested you can find them on ebay for around 32-34 delivered,cant beat that price .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 29, 2017, 12:15:48 PM
Busy cutting out all the parts changing a few bits to allow for flood chamber and allowing for float chamber. I know the flood chamber is on the left I want to make sure it is the left looking from the back of the boat.
What do you recon to this set up Turnigy Marine 180A BEC Waterproof Speed Controller with Water Cooling and a waterproof savox servo.
Looking for motors that are in stock that are a size 40mm and anything over 1750kv but below 2200kv.
I'm unsure of drive shaft size and prop size I should get, so any help there guys will be gratefully received
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 29, 2017, 12:16:46 PM
Our messages crossed over martin
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 29, 2017, 12:19:26 PM
Our messages crossed over martin
Sorry mate my motor choice was wrong it was the wrong kv they seem out of the ones i wanted to recommend ,yes anything in your previous statement as regards kv is about right on 6 s,the one i linked would work on 8s but not 6 .
Propshaft if your going flexshaft id go with 3/16" get the all in one type with welded on stainless shaft .Have you looked at Prestwich model boats they do those along with hardware,you can get a full setup from Dave along with turn fins etc . Props id be looking at cnc balanced props around 44-47 mm maybe Jan knows more as he runs boats of this size more than me .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 29, 2017, 12:49:00 PM
Not sure if youve seen this ?.The motor hes using is the one i wanted to link but HK dont seem to have them .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulhNJEZy7Qs
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 29, 2017, 01:01:54 PM
I'm unsure of drive shaft size and prop size I should get, so any help there guys will be gratefully received.
Hi Grant,

The front of the prop should be between 10-13% of the hull length behind the transom and having the rudderblade next to the prop counteracts propwalk.
When the boat is on a flat surface, the prophub should have 2-3 mm clearance of that surface.

You can use a solid shaft (2 mm wire drive with a 4 or 5 mm endpiece) which would have to be very long (500 mm, or more depending on how easy the CoG at 28-30% can be acheived), the motor would sit in the front, with the lipo's behind it on the left of the center line on the floodchamber wall.
A wire drive runs very smooth and requires very little maintenance.
Use the height of the floodchamber wall as a reference on which size Lipo's to get, having them upright makes life easier for the selfrighting.

You can also go for a flexshaft, with either a strut or a stinger/power trim, like this:
https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/drives/powertrimm/mtc-powertrimm-5-lange-ausfuehrung.html (https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/drives/powertrimm/mtc-powertrimm-5-lange-ausfuehrung.html)
A rudderboom like this:
https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/rudder/ruderanlagen/mtc-ruder-3-ausleger-95mm.html (https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/rudder/ruderanlagen/mtc-ruder-3-ausleger-95mm.html)
With a rudderblade of your choice:
https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/rudder.html (https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/rudder.html)
I'd go for a long blade with water pick-up: https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/mtc-ruderblatt-2-lang-mit-wasseraufnahme.html (https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/mtc-ruderblatt-2-lang-mit-wasseraufnahme.html)
They also have the (3/16") flexshaft and the stuffing tube:
https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/drives/flexwellen.html (https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/drives/flexwellen.html)

My appologies for the prices in these links, but quality has it's price, I've used Chinese hardware, still do, but once you've used the German made stuff, you know why you pay more...

Here's a link to a topic regarding wire drives versus flex cable, croll down for the pictures showing the various options:
https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?26887-Spartan-wire-drives (https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?26887-Spartan-wire-drives)

I'm sure Mart can provide links to UK suppliers, I'm not that familiar with those.

A flexshaft needs proper maintenance; the flex should be pulled after every day of running, cleaned, dried and put aside until the next run, when it's re-greased and installed in the boat.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 29, 2017, 01:13:41 PM
Nice one Martin, I've searched everywhere for wasabi 900e and YouTube only came up with a few,but not this one.


Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 29, 2017, 01:19:41 PM
Cheers Jan, a lot to take in and a log of new names to research just so I know what bit your talking about , but I do Thank you for your time.


Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 29, 2017, 01:21:01 PM
Not sure if youve seen this ?.The motor hes using is the one i wanted to link but HK dont seem to have them .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulhNJEZy7Qs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulhNJEZy7Qs)
That's a weird build...
The motor is a short can and very light for a hull this size: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-3660-2050kv-water-cooled-brushless-motor.html (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-3660-2050kv-water-cooled-brushless-motor.html)
When you build very light you may get away with it, but the boat is never going to be very fast.
The rudder on the left is also unusual, as it doesn't do a lot to counteract propwalk as on the right, next to having a less efficient rudder when turning right (as the rudder sits in the turbulence of the propwash)
Proof of the pudding:
https://youtu.be/MPRNiVbPoTA (https://youtu.be/MPRNiVbPoTA)
A boat like this is driven with one thumb on the steering stick, the throttle is put at full and you can stick that hand in your pocket until the battery is depleted...

A smaller version, but speedwise more like it:
https://youtu.be/z-vbH0jhkis (https://youtu.be/z-vbH0jhkis)
Or this with a full size 900:
https://youtu.be/K7Q_TeI4XzQ (https://youtu.be/K7Q_TeI4XzQ)

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 29, 2017, 01:39:25 PM
I would imagine he has set out the same as me wanting to take on a project build but where I seek advise and help he hasn't. There motor he has was the same brand I was looking at, I want to build it and do it right so it's going to take a bit of time go get the electrics I shall continue to research the internet. From what I can see on the video I've already made a few changes like a flood and float chambers.


In relation to the flood chamber, should it run from transom to the front or only to frame 5 ?


Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 29, 2017, 01:47:40 PM
Seen this motor going off what the motor ( 3660-2050) put out on the water, how well would this motor work ?
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-3974-2200kv-water-cooled-brushless-motor.html
I think I'm going to get a good servo and esc possibly the 180amp turning one and start half way up the power motor level and when I've got the hang of it and feel confident get a better motor.
What do you think to that guys?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 29, 2017, 07:09:50 PM
Hi Grant,

If you compare the specs, the Wattage of the 3660 is actually higher than the 3974 (1800 versus 1200W), so the bigger motor will give you more weight with possibly(?) the option to turn a bigger prop, but, it is a 5S max. motor versus the 6S you're aiming at at the moment.


Can you calculate what the volume of the floodchamber will be? Both versions?
Floodchamber size/position: the most common floodchamber position is forward to the front of the hatch opening (frame 5 in your build).
This makes the boat turn back up partly over the transom, due to the weight of the Lipo and the hardware (and the lead on the left outer side if required), which in general works best.

Having the floodchamber all the way forward into the nose aims at making the boat turn up over the side, as the water in the floodchamber will also anhialate boyancy up front.
There is an issue however; a floodchamber that long will be hard to fill entirely with water, as there's little to no weight in the nose to acheive that, as a result there will remain air in that section, not really helping to turn the boat back up...
Also, the extra lead needs to be more forward along the hull to help flooding the forward section of the floodchamber, this weight more forward and on the extreme left of the boat will compromize the running attitude when running the right side up.

In our Arowana's (my son and I each run one), the floodchambers stop at the front of the hatchopening and still had issues getting filled completely, leaving an overturned boat bobbing upside down...
The problem here was air trapped in the section closest to the bottom (which is the top when overturned) with the air having no place to go.

The solution was a brass tube from the bottom of the floodchamber front to the right side of the hull; now the air could get out and the floodchamber filled completely, allowing the boat to flip back up.

The tube can be seen in the picture of the interior in one of my previous posts (#36).

Which version to choose does not depend on the motor position: the CoG will remain in the same place, between 28 and 32% of the hull length.
The hull shape does; a long narrow hull will flip back up easier with a long floodchamber into the nose, a wide hull will flip back up over the transom easier.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 29, 2017, 07:46:00 PM
Good comparison of flood chambers Jan. So from transom to frame 5. I really do like them German rudders etc.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 30, 2017, 08:42:02 AM
Good morning, on this YouTube video it shows the bottom of the boat with lines on, are these essential ? Does the boat run better with them?.

[size=78%]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulhNJEZy7Qs[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Grant [/size]
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 30, 2017, 10:39:39 AM
Goodmorning Grant,

Yes they are, the strakes help lift the boat out of the water when the speed increases, omitting them, or making them the wrong size and shape, like Giancarlo's boat in the video, will make the boat run wet.

In Giancarlo's case his version of the 'turnfins', with waterinlets on them, makes matters (a lot) worse, the drag of a pipe, being pulled through the water, is huge, it's the main cause for this boat being so slow and ill handling.
A turnfin should only get wet when the boat banks into a turn. Your Wasabi only needs one (1) turnfin on the right.
Giancarlo has created a medium fast fountain...
There's a second video of this boat where it scares the owner by almost flipping, running over its own wake, which is something that can happen (the flipping I mean) but not at such a low speed...:
https://youtu.be/BtGTxX7n7Qk (https://youtu.be/BtGTxX7n7Qk)
Giancarlo is a skilled builder (and has the tools), but he has no clue on how to get a fast electric moving...
He uses the waterinlet behind the prop, which works fine with a scale model, but is totally out of place on a fast electric:
https://youtu.be/LnDPCPeW_qA
Watch what he wants to slow down this beautiful build cat with, at 1:11 :
https://youtu.be/8qm-1VLz71k

I added a picture of the strakes on my Arowana (top) and Jetchopper30 hulls, both 800mm hulls. Similar but not identical approaches on how to use strakes.
Notice the absence of strakes in the triangle that is the last part of the hull, strakes on that sectionwill cause lift, which will push down the bow, leaving you with a very bad behaving boat.
Having no strakes in the last part also helps the hull to turn when rudder is applied.

As the water isn't scaled down, the strakes need to be wider and higher than on a fullscale boat in order to be something else than ornamental.

Make sure to glass the bottom first before gluing on the strakes with epoxy resin, as strakes need to be sharp to be effective.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 30, 2017, 11:21:03 AM
That's brilliant cheers Jan. You don't have a profile picture to see the shape they need to be?. Why only 1 turn fin on the right as I've seen loads with them on both plus trim tabs, not that I'm bothered if not needed spend the money on a better motor.


So far got all frames cut out waiting for epoxy glue to arrive. Ordered a savox servo and looking at  a 180 amp esc.
Fibre glass ordered 24gsm/mtr
So we are getting there, I'm hoping to when done and complete and runs fine, putting a full build up post on including all parts needed bit like a shopping list for newbies like me who want to build one.


Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 30, 2017, 11:50:59 AM
Hi Grant,

When watched from the rear, or the front, the surfaces of the strakes are horizontal with vertical sides.
This means the triangular shape changes when going from the bottom towards the bow, as the angle on the hull becomes steeper.

A single prop boat will turn right much tighter (and spin out) than left, due to the propwalk (when using a counterclockwise rotating prop), hence the need for a turnfin on the right.
On the left, there's precious little room (floodchamber hole), or need for a turnfin, as left hand turns at speed will always be wider due to the propwalk.

Trimtabs are a bandaid for a poor set-up!
All the bling bling on the back of the commercially available boats are aiming at the newbies who have no clue (and/or the skills) to run a fast electric really quick, so the looks are important.
The fact that extra hardware isn't required on a sluggish RTR (compared to a fully dialed in competition boat) and only slows you down (both by the nature of trimtabs and faulty user adjustment) is lost on them.

None of my fast electrics have/need trimtabs.

Only when you're approaching the limits of the design, trimtabs will help to adjust the running attitude, as trimtabs elongate the hull and will counteract proptorque which will try to push the boat on its right side, which is not good when you're running well over a 120 km/h (75mph)...

I would not use epoxy to assemble the framework, but white woodworking glue, I use the quick setting waterproof type.
Epoxy is for laminating and makin fillets, etc.

Make sure to use a building board to keep things straight, avoid building a banana, it'll never run properly!
See picture.
The frames have 'legs' elongating them into one plane (the building board) just like the picture in this build:
http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads/wasabi-e900-setup.241965/

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 30, 2017, 12:17:25 PM
Very interesting you certainly have a vast knowledge even down to physics and mathematics. I look forward to building this boat to precision cause if it's anything less I won't be happy.


The majority of the vids you see they have the standard transmitter with the 2 sticks, is there a reason for this ? I would of thought  a 2 channel wheel controller would be easier?


One for martin, With regards to the fibreglassing would you put colour in the epoxy instead of spraying and what product would you use?


Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 30, 2017, 12:24:50 PM
Hi Grant,

Which type of transmitter to use is entirely personal, I 'grew up' with stick transmitters, I'm all over the place with a pistol grip....
A lot of boaters have more models and use the transmitter (with multiple memories and computer adjustments) for all models. The simple pistol grip transmitters are limited in this way, but the more expensive ones also have multiple memory storage capabilities.

Colouring the epoxy when laminating makes it harder to see flaws and air trapped underneath.
I would use clear epoxy, fill the weave with a second layer of epoxy and use filler and (two component spray)paint from there.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 30, 2017, 01:03:12 PM
Heres my opinion on strakes some designs need them as they need the lift some don't as it creates too much lift.For instance the mono i recommend you build the Prowler doesn't need them in fact when built smaller or when using more powerful motors be it electric or gas they get too flighty so i omited them on the ones Ive built.Cant speak for the one your building but personally id omit them and test the boat first.I def wouldnt have them going all the way back to transom id stop them short .The only thing you must add are chine or spray rails on the chine where bottom meets side.,Offset the rudder to right and also the drive 1/4" to overcome prop walk etc,turn fins are a must and i like them on both sides so the boat will turn well either way but right turns will always be sharper than left.You dont need much rudder to turn these boats so adjust your rudder throws at the servo or your boat will spin out too easy.
Radios i would commend a pistol grip makes life simpler as you have controll of the throttle while launching the boat with the other hand,flysky gt3c works fine for me.
heres a pic of my apache bottom strakes stop short and she has plenty of lift.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 30, 2017, 04:34:37 PM
HI Jan, Martin can you confirm I've got this the right way to calculate rpm, is it  kv x battery volts ie..3660/ 1700 so it's 1700 x 22.2 on 6s lipo ?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 30, 2017, 05:27:01 PM
Looking at boat motors and came across this one ....

Turnigy XK-4082 1450KV Brushless Inrunner


It would need a cooling sleeve , but according to calculations it's not bad ? Unless I'm wrong  {:-{
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 30, 2017, 05:43:21 PM
Hi Grant,

Way ahead of you...

I had hoped you wouldn't stumble accross this one, as I intentionally haven't linked to it:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-xk-4082-1450kv-brushless-inrunner.html

Reason is the relative low Kv of 1450, multiplied by 6S (22,2V) gives you an unloaded rpm of 32190 rpm, with losses ( x 0,9) that would be 28970 rpm.
To get the topspeed the higher Kv motors would make the boat run, you'll need a bigger prop, which means more propwalk and proptorque issues.
These issues could be counteracted by increasing the offset and putting the weight a bit more to the left, but the load on the motor would be high and with the specs giving 100A as the maximum Ampdraw, I expect high current/heat build up issues in future on 6S.

Running on 7S or 8S would allow you to reduce the propsize and bring the current down, but that would raise issues with getting the floodchamber to work, due to the bulkier Lipo's, or result in a reduced runtime if you were to slim down on the lipo weight by reducing the capacity, which in turn would be hard on the lipo's due to the constant ampdraw...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 30, 2017, 05:47:16 PM
Ha there is a bigger of version of 2000kv which would do it, no  :(( {:-{ :o 
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 30, 2017, 06:48:08 PM
If turnigy xk4074-2000kv has a max current draw of 120amp would the turnigy marine 120A esc run together as it's continues 120amp but has surge protection of 720amp.


Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 30, 2017, 07:14:32 PM
Hi Grant,

In Reply #43, I commented on a similar motor.

Rule of thumb is to choose an ESC with at least 50% headroom, to make sure the ESC will handle the current spikes easily.
As I've explained before the specs are just that; the motor is happy to draw whatever current it needs to turn the prop at the rpm given by the input via the ESC.

Having the max of both devices match isn't a good idea.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 30, 2017, 07:17:03 PM
Would you say the 4082-2000 motor was ok to run on the 180amp esc.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 30, 2017, 07:19:31 PM
I do apologise for all the questions , I've always run on gas with cars,hovercraft so electric is a bit novice bug we'll get there. Thanks For your help Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 30, 2017, 08:34:18 PM
Hi Grant,

First of all, it's better to ask, than to muddle on and let out the magic smoke out of electrical devices such as ESC and motor, which is also hard on your budget...

A 4082-2000Kv motor can be handled by a 180A ESC, provided you don't overprop the motor and make the ampdraw soar, but it's a 4074-2000Kv motor you mentioned earlier, isn't it?

I would go for the Flycolor 150A ESC, mentioned in previous posts by Mart and me, for the price you can find these on line, they are hard to beat.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 30, 2017, 09:13:40 PM
No I mentioned a 4074-1450 which you said was to low on the kv well they also do 4074-2000 which covers the loss and it's 6s. Don't mind th 180amp as the flycolour can't get in UK
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 30, 2017, 09:49:50 PM
Nothing wrong with ordering things from China or elsewhere you know,i sell more hulls abroad than i do in the UK so id be stuck if people only bought from their own country  :D .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 31, 2017, 06:29:10 AM
While the kv on this is a little lower than ideal it would work for your project.Should get you into the 50s pos more with a big prop but then watch out for prop walk etc,but if you offset things and make sure you get a properly sharpened balanced prop you should be ok .For a lot more you could get this one from Dave which has the ideal kv rating but it does come with water jacket .To be honest id rather use these than a 2000 kv motor in a 3ft wooden  boat due to the extra weight when compaired to a  glass hull .

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/dr-mad-thrust-series-motor-4082-1400kv-for-90mm-edf-8s.html (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/dr-mad-thrust-series-motor-4082-1400kv-for-90mm-edf-8s.html)
this one gives you 25 k rpm on the water .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRUSHLESS-WATERCOOLED-MOTOR-4082-5-BHP-1600kv-rc-boat-40mm-x-82mm-/361392384145?epid=632968362&hash=item5424aa2891:g:0hkAAOSwQPlV~nzN (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRUSHLESS-WATERCOOLED-MOTOR-4082-5-BHP-1600kv-rc-boat-40mm-x-82mm-/361392384145?epid=632968362&hash=item5424aa2891:g:0hkAAOSwQPlV~nzN)
This one gives you 29 k which is about right
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 31, 2017, 06:37:45 AM
This boat is 40" long using 1400 kv motor on 6s ,seems to go well probably around 50 mph .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9TlqdidbPs
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 31, 2017, 09:10:45 AM
Nowt wrong with that boat, not as if I'm racing. I have no problem ordering from abroad, the esc that had the link was not available for UK postage,that why I was looking else where. What would the set up of a 180amp turnigy esc running a 4074-2000 run like ? With regards to the lipos would you use 2x 3s wired in series or just 1x 6s. And what mah to get I assume it's the same with nihm bigger the better??  {:-{
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 31, 2017, 11:33:17 AM
The 74 mm can is a little short it wont have the torque needed,far better with the 82 mm length,longer they are the more torque etc . Best way is use two 3 s lipos that way you can put one either side of the motor,well thats how i do it but then i dont run flood chambers in my boats .More mah they have the longer you get to play  ok2 .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FlyColor-Waterproof-Brushless-150A-ESC-With-5-5V-5A-2-6s-BEC-For-RC-Boat-/272783561971?hash=item3f832ad4f3:g:zPIAAOSwixhZfdwB (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FlyColor-Waterproof-Brushless-150A-ESC-With-5-5V-5A-2-6s-BEC-For-RC-Boat-/272783561971?hash=item3f832ad4f3:g:zPIAAOSwixhZfdwB)

https://www.banggood.com/FlyColor-Waterproof-Brushless-150A-ESC-With-5_5V-5A-2-6s-BEC-For-RC-Boat-p-1162279.html?rmmds=search
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 31, 2017, 11:38:10 AM
Cheers Martin. I'll have a look would 180amp esc  be ok to cover a vast amount of motors that I would be in the market for?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 31, 2017, 11:40:00 AM
Cheers Martin. I'll have a look would 180amp esc  be ok to cover a vast amount of motors that I would be in the market for?
The T 180 esc is better than the flycolor one but the 150 flycolor one will work well for you its up to you i guess.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 31, 2017, 11:42:21 AM
I'll get the turnigy 180amp as the flyby is only sale outside UK  {:-{
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 31, 2017, 11:49:32 AM
1)The esc that had the link was not available for UK postage,that why I was looking else where.
2) What would the set up of a 180amp turnigy esc running a 4074-2000 run like ?
3) With regards to the lipos would you use 2x 3s wired in series or just 1x 6s. And what mah to get I assume it's the same with nihm bigger the better??  {:-{
Hi Grant,

1) This one does: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-Waterproof-150A-Brushless-ESC-with-5-5V-5A-BEC-for-RC-Boat/302315187681?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45702%26meid%3D1dc1f79d0bf6496c93af22539e28c98f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D141944856772#shpCntId
 
2) It'll run briefly; I've explained this before, 40000 rpm under load is hard on the drivetrain, Chinese hardware won't last very long.
Next to that you can only run a small prop in order to keep the ampdraw within reason.
The Turnigy 180A ESC won't have issues with that motor, nor will the Flycolor 150A ESC.

3) With a motor drawing well over 100A, you need Lipo's that can deliver that current easily, with a capacity (mAh) a high as practical (weight and size) and a C-rate of at least 35, preferably higher.
As I mentioned before, the position of the motor will determen which lipo to choose:

- A long wiredrive with the motor as far forward as the CoG (balance point) will allow, will result in two 3S Lipo's wired in series, sitting upright against the floodchamber wall, in a similar way as the picture of my Arowana.
- A flexshaft, with the motor in the rear of the hull will give a single 6S Lipo in front of the motor, tucked against the floodchamber wall.

Mind you, I would wait with ordering Lipo's untill the hull is built, waterproofed with glasscloth and epoxy on the outside and epoxy on the inside.
This allows you to tape the motor in it's intended position.
Use weights to simulate the weight of either two seperate 3S lipo's, or a single 6S Lipo also taped in their positions in the hull, tape the hatch shut and do a floodchamber test, keeping in mind there will be some extra weight on/near the transom in the form of the drivetrain, the rudder assembly and the servo

Once you've establed which motor/lipo configuration makes the hull flip back up the best, you'll know what to order.

I'm telling you this because I had to modify the floodchamber wall in our Arowana's, so the 4S Lipo would sit upright next to the stuffing tube and the floodchamber would work.
If you know where to look for, you can see in picture, showing the floodchamber exit hole in the transom, that the first section (16 cm) of the vertical wall is bulging into the floodchamber, before running straight forward to the end at the front of the hatch.

I added a few pictures of the floodchamber build in my sons Arowana, who had run one season without one, using the stock 1600Kv motor. This made the boat docile enough (65 km/h) to keep the flips to a minimum during the races.
Once he upgraded to the 3974- 2200Kv motor, the speed went up significantly and running in competition (and for fun) without a floodchamber wasn't so much fun anymore after he spent most of the races bobbing upside down...

As the stuffing tube and motormount were already in place, installing a floodchamber turned out to be a real PITA, due to the lack of proper access.
I made forms from styrofoam, which I covered with a layer of glasscloth and epoxy prior to installing them in the hull, the second layer was applied with all sections in place.
Once the epoxy had cured fully, the styrofoam was removed mechanically and the remaining foam solved with a slosh of Acetone.
After that I could check for leaks (which there were) and fix them.
The pictures show the 'dent' I left for the lipo to fit in.

While I'm at it; at the bottom you can see two pieces of aluminum tubing glassed in the hull, these are the inlet and outlet of the pressureless cooling system I have in nearly all my boats.
The inlet faces forward, the outlet next to if faces towards the rear, creating sucktion when the boat moves.
Once the system has been filled with water, there's flow, even when you're crawling along, not something you will want to do with a fast electric (hard on both motor and ESC), but in a scale model it's a very nice feature.

Regards, Jan.

Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 31, 2017, 12:40:57 PM
Cheers for photo I can see roughly the width of the flood chamber I know it's up to the end of the hatch,  but was wondering how wide . I thought where you had put slots to allow it to flood quickly to avoid air getting trapped I though about glassing in a air pipe to exhaust the air out down to right hand side of the boat.
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 31, 2017, 01:10:15 PM
Hi Grant,

If all air has to be expelled through a single vent at the front of the floodchamber, when the boat is upside down, with the hole in the transom under water, it'll take forever to do so.
Keep in mind the floodchamber will hold something like 2,5L of water.

Try emptying 2,5L through the length and size tube you have in mind to get an idea of how long that'll take.

Another point is clearing the floodchamber after the boat has flipped back up, without slots/holes on top, all air to replace the water will also have to enter through that single pipe, untill the exit hole in the transom is above the waterline, than the water will rush out when you hit the throttle.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 31, 2017, 01:26:50 PM
Just a thought, as probably many have thought before. Would putting a float chamber inside the lid as well?.. ? Looking at the transom of this boat wether to change the shape if it would effect anything above the water line, is that just aesthetics or physics
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 31, 2017, 02:15:41 PM
Hi Grant,

As your hatch is wood, it'll most likely float, which is easy to test once you've waterproofed it.
If it tends to sink, glue in a piece of poolnoodle, the same stuff Mart advices as flotation.

Make sure to tape down the hatch properly, because when youre testing it the hatch will float after a flip, the rest of the boat will have been flooded as far as the flotation allows....

Having flotation in the form of poolnoodles is better than having sections of the hull closed, waterproofing those sections on the inside could be tricky and what if you hit something that pierces this particular section...
Also, if the closed off section gets moist for some reason, you won't notice that before that piece of hull becomes mushy and soft, often with a little mushroom growth inside...
It's good practice to store a hull with the hatch off, so any moisture can evaporate.

If you change the shape of the transom above the waterline (in what way?) will not affect the running attitude, provided the changes do not add lots of weight high above the waterline.

As you're not racing, the speed of selfrighting isn't very crucial, so the hole in the transom needn't be as huge as in our Arowana's.
A 4-5 mm wide slit, flush with the bottom, as wide as the floodchamber and a slit at the top, to let the water/air in and out is sufficient.

Be prepared for a very slow recovery after a flip, as both filling and emptying the floodchamber will be a lengthy process.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 31, 2017, 02:34:31 PM
Cheers Jan that covers another bit, what should I fibre glass inside the hull before I put top on? I also noticed Martin's hull and top are separate pieces ??


I had in mind that leaving frame 3 and 5 whole so making a chamber which I could also fill with noodle but I get the impression the entire hull is open in the frames ??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on July 31, 2017, 03:10:16 PM
Just seal the inside with epoxy resin no cloth.Do you really need a flood chamber ? if all sides of your lake are accessible you dont need one they tend to drift in or you can do as i do get a fishing rod with strong line attach a tennis ball and cast to it and reel her in.Or how about another project ? a retrieval boat here's an ideal kit to build as one.
http://zippkits.com/~zippkits/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86&products_id=498 (http://zippkits.com/~zippkits/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86&products_id=498)
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 31, 2017, 03:10:55 PM
Hi Grant,

Martin laminates his hulls in a mould using gelcoat, glassfiber and resin (polyester or epoxy), the strength of a laminated hull comes from the type of glass used and the number of layers.

Laminating a hull and deck in one piece can be done, but only with large hulls, due to the lack of room to work inside the mould and is not practical (or cheap, due to the extra time involved).
 Most hulls consist of two parts (three, if you count the hatch), laminated seperately, of which the hull and deck are being joined with glasscloth and resin afterwards.

As far as waterproofing goes, just epoxy resin on the inside will do the job.
Adding glasscloth on both inside and outside creates a sandwich, which is very stiff, making for a very rigid hull, which is good.
Downside of laminating a wooden hull built on frames is getting it to look good due to all the obstacles you'll have to work around, as you can't fold glasscloth over sharp edges, it'll work itself loose with air trapped underneath, this looks crappy and the sandwich construction is compromised.
If you want to add glasscloth inside the bottom of the hull, you'll have to cut the glasscloth into squares and rectangle pieces that fit exactly in between the frames.

If you decide to do this, read up on the subject of laminating, view some how-to videos, get a pair of ceramic scissors and use hairspray on the cloth prior to cutting to avoid it fraying all over the place (been there, done that, made a real mess of it).

A way around the 'patchwork' laminating inside a hull on frames, would be to add the glasscloth onto the pre cut bottom halves, prior to gluing them onto the frames.

Downside to this way of doing this, is that you'll have to use epoxy to attach the bottom halves onto the frames, as wood glue won't bond with a laminated surface...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 31, 2017, 03:44:18 PM
 %% {-) love the idea of a tug boat going go get it when it's in the poop?. Just been and got the board to fix the frames to, measure it all out and away we go, once the bottom is on and all dry I'll just epoxy the inside, I think I will fibreglass the hull inside where it's open.


Whether I go for a flood chamber or a tug boat, how many times am I going to roll it and not be able to retrieve it, as I'm not going go be racing just having fun. Just one what is and where is the cline?? I think that what it was.


Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 31, 2017, 04:28:55 PM
Hi Grant,

I have several fast electrics an only one (the first one I ever bought) has no floodchamber, as the batteries at that time were NiMH and distributing seven of them in the hull didn't leave any room for a floodchamber, as the hull is just 50 cm long.

With the introduction of the brushless motors and Lipo's into the racing world, the hull was too small to cope with the brushless power and was shelved.
Some time ago I put a small watercooled outrunner in this hull and I'm now running it regulary on 2S.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/ads400l-water-cooled-brushless-outrunner-3700kv-600w.html (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/ads400l-water-cooled-brushless-outrunner-3700kv-600w.html)
The motor can handle 3S, but the hull cannot, it's way overpowered with this small outrunner.
Gunning it from a standstill makes it barrelroll...

From all my boats this one is fun to run, but I always have a markerbuoy with 30 m of 3mm nylon line at hand (my version of a tennisball on a fishing rod), as a flip is never far away, specially is it's choppy.
At speed, there's just the prop and the rudderblade in the water, running on the last inch of the hull.

All my speedboats, bought since that first one, have had floodchambers installed, it makes running them, without clinched buttocks, so much more relaxed...

Retreiving a flipped speedboat with a tug is quite a challenge when it's windy and there's chop.
When the boat is far out, seeing what you're doing makes it extra difficult.

I do have a tug, but have used it only once to retreive my Arowana when the ESC gave up running on a slow moving river (Lahn in Germany).
The tug was at standby, but before I had attached the floating line with floatation at the end to the tug, grabbed it's transmitter and got back to the river, the Arowana had floated down stream quite a distance.
Fortunaly I could run along the bank, steering the tug towards the stranded boat, so I had a good view on what to do.
After two attempts, I snagged the rudder and pulled the Arowana to shore.

I do most of my running abroad on the river Weser, which has a current of 6 km/h.
I can tell you a flipped boat is very quickly, very far down stream...

My tug would be useless, as it runs about 6 km/h and can't cope with the full current on it's own, let alone towing something.

When I have access to the bank, the buoy with the line gets used, if that fails, I go swimming (I know, not the smartest way, as a lesser swimmer may drown trying to get his toy back, but when the water isn't freezing, I'm doing allright).

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 31, 2017, 04:59:33 PM
I can swim pretty well so I don't mind going in I really have too, I've not built the first boat with out adding another boat to the list. I want to make sure that I'm doing this right, upon gluing the frames together with strip wood, all the frames are open so you can see to the tip of the bow for floatation  just stuff pool noodle through them or leave frame 5 full and make a flotation chamber with noodles behind it, maybe,put small hole at top for it to air?.i can't visualise what Martin  means by a float chamber.
The boat once made will be going in all water pond, lake, river, sea. I do think a flood chamber is a good idea as long as you don't have to constantly be going fast to stop it filling up .......


I was watching a traxxas spartan on you tube on a calm flat lake it was at speed bobing from side to side why is this as it seemed to have an effect to him giving it all out.
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 31, 2017, 05:51:52 PM
I do think a flood chamber is a good idea as long as you don't have to constantly be going fast to stop it filling up .......
If that was the case, not a single raceboater would install a floodchamber in his competition boat...
Consider the mass inertia of water; as soon as you get moving forward, the water will exit the floodchamber and will stay out until you stop the boat completely.
Running at a slow speed isn't good for motor and ESC, but it won't cause the floodchamber to fill up, not even a bit.

I was watching a traxxas spartan on you tube on a calm flat lake it was at speed bobing from side to side why is this as it seemed to have an effect to him giving it all out.

Search on 'chine walk'; there's so little boat in the water it starts wobbling from side to side.
Increasing the throttle will cause the boat to spin out as there's nothing (much to counteract propwalk anymore.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on July 31, 2017, 06:00:33 PM
I had asked about chine some thing or other before as some where I think it was  Martin saying don't forget to add the chine or spray rails ?? All these new words and terminology  :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on July 31, 2017, 07:37:22 PM
Strakes are under the hull, chines are the edge between bottom and side of the hull.

Well placed sprayrails sit on the edge of the hull, deflecting the water to the sides, preventing the bow wave from crawling up the sides, which would create massive drag.

When this happens, the water crawling up the bow and sides during acceleration and powering down will reek havoc on the running attitude.

Chine walk occurs when a (well dialed in) hull reaches the limits of it's design, speedwise.
Slowing down, untill there is more hull in the water, is the only way to remedy that.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 01, 2017, 02:13:28 AM
HI Jan, looking at your hulls,it looks like they are the same shape as the strakes.
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on August 01, 2017, 06:14:23 AM
No need to add spray rails just let the sides hang slightly bellow the bottom then use filler to get the shape and sand to tidy them up see pic.
Personally i wouldnt glass inside the hull its just adding even more weight,wooden boats are strong you dont need it in my opinion.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on August 01, 2017, 10:16:03 AM
HI Jan, looking at your hulls, it looks like they are the same shape as the strakes.
Hi Grant,

I think I know what you mean (too late for me to respond at that hour though...).

The hull at the top of the picture (Arowana) has sprayrails at the chines made the way Martin showed in his picture (a very clever way to do it, by the way).

The bottom one (JetChopper30) is similar, but at the nose you see the sprayrail morph into strakes as they are tucked inside the curve of the hull.
This is due to the rounded nose of the JC30.
If you watch video's of both hulls, the well dialed in ones run in a similar way, with the sprayrails doing their job.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 01, 2017, 10:33:22 AM
Chines and spray ways
So is there 3 on each side triangular in shape one right on the edge, looking at the photos you both have provided are the diamentions parallel and vertical surface to the base board 5mm x 10mm ?


Martin, what quality are the rudder parts and shaft holders like from prestwich model boats ?


Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on August 01, 2017, 01:54:29 PM
Hi Grant,

Please take Martin's advice and omit the strakes and just add the sprayrails.
If it turns out the boat runs too wet, you can always add strakes.

The hardware Prestwick sells is Chines made, sold at UK prices.
But, you can also expect service and warranty from a UK seller, something that's not always obvious when you buy from China.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 01, 2017, 02:17:17 PM
Cheers Jan. Yes Its easier to add than remove.
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on August 01, 2017, 03:09:53 PM
Maybe you can see the shape a bit better in this pic.Should you decide you need to add some id just add one either side centrally between side and keel and stop it 4-6" short of the transom and maybe 3rd of the way from the bow that should work .The reason the Apaches i build have them all the way forward is because they are big boats and need every bit of lift they can get to get moving .Once the boats on plane theres not much hull left in the water to be honest  :} .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 02, 2017, 06:33:54 PM
HI guys just found this esc available is for UK, is this the right one you both keep saying
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flycolor-150A-Brushless-waterproof-alu-alloy-RC-ESC-with-5-5V-5A-BEC-For-RC-boat-/222217078105?hash=item33bd2b8559
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on August 02, 2017, 08:21:41 PM
Yep.

Make sure to order the programming card along with it.
Programming the ESC via the beeps is no fun...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flycolor-ESC-Programming-Box-Program-Card-For-RC-Brushless-Car-Boat-Model-/222547683768?hash=item33d0e029b8:g:rtwAAOSw1BlZQzas

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 02, 2017, 08:25:35 PM
Yep remembered what you said got card as well same seller. So that's esc,card,servo now just the motor,lipo,drive shaft,prop,rudder, etc etc
Grant  %%
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on August 02, 2017, 10:11:11 PM
Check this motor it might be ok for your boat it is an outrunner so you might want to use a water cooled mount and a small fan for cooling, no biggy you can buy em cheap and run on a small lipo.Outrunners have more torque for their size than inrunners,this ones on sale .

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/4362-1300kv-1994w-brushless-motor-suitable-for-hydropro-inception.html
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 02:18:24 AM
This one any good and what is an outgunned
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-xk-4074-2000kv-brushless-inrunner.html
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 04:12:14 AM
LEOPARD 4 POLES 4074 2150KV BRUSHLESS MOTOR
[/size][/color]
LEOPARD 4 POLES 4082 1250KV BRUSHLESS MOTOR
[/size][/color]
LEOPARD 4074 2000KV 4 Poles Brushless Motor
[/size][/color]
[size=0px]Boldclash 4092 1250KV Brushless Motor and Water Cooling Combo Set for [/size][/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color]
[size=0px]Hi Martin can you see if any of these motors at suitable. Cheers[/size][/color]
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 05:50:26 AM


Hi Martin.  sorry to keep checking this seems the best motor I've found for budget. Is if any good.

LEOPARD RC Model 4082 KV2000 4 Pole
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on August 03, 2017, 06:59:56 AM
4074 is too small for an inrunner they dont have the torque for your sized boat ,a 4082 would work but id be looking at a kv around 1500 rather than 2000 if your running 6s.
dif between an in runner and out runner is the inrunner is an enclosed can the moving parts are internal the outrunner the whole can spins which creates lots of torque so although the one i linked is less kv it has tons of torque and will spin a bigger prop .You dont want to go too big on props though but if you check out the video of the hull its meant for they run really well at over 50 mph .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f0Aun0Lv4E
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: bj on August 03, 2017, 07:33:49 AM
Picture of my first build WASABI with strakes at speed but this one was powered by a 4cc nitro engine
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 07:56:35 AM
I got the impression from jan that the higher the kv the better, but if your saying 4082 - 1600 inrunner is ok I may get that one. I was looking at the leopard range and turnigy range on hobbyking.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 08:02:27 AM
Found this one on HK that fits the parameters

Turnigy XK-4082 1450KV Brushless Inrunner

Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 08:17:27 AM
These batteries are on sale are they any good ??.  On for 24.00

Turnigy nano-tech 6000mah 3S 25~50C Lipo Pack

Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on August 03, 2017, 08:17:44 AM
I got the impression from Jan that the higher the kv the better
Hi Grant,

That is not what I said, read back my posts: rule of thumb is to aim for 28.000 - 32.000 rpm under load.
Running on 6S this, restrics the number of motors suitable (1450 - 1800Kv), considering you don't want to turn huge props with ptopwalk and torque issues in mind...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 08:22:08 AM
So is the 4082-1450 no good ? I know the longer it is there's more torque?
Did you see post about battery any good
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 08:35:55 AM
I realised I need a 6s battery not 3s so if I've got this correct ive to aim for 1 that is high mah over 5000, 6s, and a high c found this 6000mah 6s 25~50C  :-)) {:-{
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: pompebled on August 03, 2017, 08:49:37 AM
Hi Grant,

Like I mentioned before, either a single 6S pack, or two 3S packs wired in series, the motor doesn't care where the power comes from, as long as it can deliver the current it draws.

I'd also look for HRB Lipo's, I'm currently running them in my fast electrics, very good for their price.

Packing the car to go boating abroad now.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 08:51:48 AM
I'll have a look at them ones
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on August 03, 2017, 12:18:03 PM
So is the 4082-1450 no good ? I know the longer it is there's more torque?
Did you see post about battery any good
Yes that kv and size will work perfect its in the ballpark as we keep saying 30 k rpm or as Jan said between 28-32 is safe .Put a link up to the motor and i can see which motor it is.
I have a few of these lipos theyre pretty good for the money.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-5800mah-4s-40c-lipo-pack.html?wrh_pdp=1
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 12:25:39 PM
I do apologise for keep checking different motors, I have a few medical condition and the medication I take can make me totally forget or get confused over the easiest of things, but if I didn't try I'd go mad.
I'm going to get that motor 4082-1650kv which will go well with the flycolor 150amp esc I've ordered.
What lipo 6s should I be looking for I know the mah needs to be above 5000 but with relation to the discharge rate would 25C be ok or does it ned to be higher? Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on August 03, 2017, 12:28:19 PM
Is it this one? if so its a car motor,the wires coming out the side is a giveaway,it will work but car ones dont have the torque the boat versions do,ive used leopard ones before and they work ok,your not racing anyway so i think it would work ok .
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-xk-4082-1450kv-brushless-inrunner.html (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-xk-4082-1450kv-brushless-inrunner.html)
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on August 03, 2017, 12:31:07 PM
No worries mate ...
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-5000mah-6s-40c-lipo-pack.html
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-5000mah-6s-60c-lipo-pack.html
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 12:34:27 PM
So a was under the impression that the battery had to be a 6s or 2 x3s??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on August 03, 2017, 01:02:18 PM
Yes sorry linked wrong one,linked two more for you that should work.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 01:04:58 PM
Cheers Martin, but both of them are out of stock, for some reason they won't post lipo abroad 
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric)
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 01:24:32 PM



Hi Martin this battery is available in the UK if 2 of these ran in series would they be suitable?


https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-6000mah-3s-25-50c-lipo-pack.html
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
Post by: martno1fan on August 03, 2017, 03:14:47 PM
Cheers Martin, but both of them are out of stock, for some reason they won't post lipo abroad
They were available in the UK and in stock when i looked ,they sold out quick lol .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric)
Post by: martno1fan on August 03, 2017, 03:19:16 PM
Yes it would work but the one you linked is heavier this ones  a bit lighter thats why i linked the compact series,this ones in stock.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-6200mah-3s-40c-lipo-pack.html?wrh_pdp=1 (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-6200mah-3s-40c-lipo-pack.html?wrh_pdp=1)
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric)
Post by: Gaci4 on August 03, 2017, 03:24:27 PM
So 2 of them required, they be ok to run 4082-1450kv turnigy xk motor



Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric)
Post by: martno1fan on August 03, 2017, 03:41:36 PM
So 2 of them required, they be ok to run 4082-1450kv turnigy xk motor

Yup
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 04, 2017, 11:00:49 AM
Hi Martin with regards to the battery coding and the discharge rate will 25c be ok with a burst of 50c. I've been trying to work it out the calculation but not getting it 


Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 04, 2017, 12:55:07 PM
Hi Martin with regards to the battery coding and the discharge rate will 25c be ok with a burst of 50c. I've been trying to work it out the calculation but not getting it 


Grant
Personally id stick with something above 30c the ones i linked were 40 c,boats are under a constant load due to the prop having to push all that water trust me it makes a big difference when compaired to running cars planes etc so the biggest c rating you can afford is always a good idea .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 04, 2017, 01:03:50 PM
Cheers Martin, I did think that bug just wanted to the check.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 09, 2017, 01:50:46 PM
HI Martin, finishing the bottom of the hull would spray colour first then cover with clear epoxy or the other way around ??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 10, 2017, 03:14:38 PM
Seal with epoxy first then paint,then the paint needs laquering to protect it,you can buy good 2 k laquer in rattle cans now that works well .But let the paint dry and harden for a few days before laquering ..
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 10, 2017, 03:29:27 PM
HI Martin  you say seal with epoxy first which I'm doing the spray and allow to dry. Would a clear epoxy not be ok in stead of lacquer? I was trying to fine some dye or additive to put in my clear epoxy to colour it do you have any you can recommend.
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 10, 2017, 11:00:29 PM
You can colour epoxy resin but its thick compared to paint and you will never get a good finish like you will with paint .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 11, 2017, 11:10:01 AM
Good morning Martin, I'm trying to decide whether to install a flood chamber or not how many times is it likely to flip over and is fitting the flood chamber a  100% success of it turning back over. I know that Jan is in favour of the flood  ?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 11, 2017, 01:33:09 PM
Down to personal choice at the end of the day,if you dont install one how will you retrieve it ? for me i use a tennis ball and a fishing rod my lake has 4 sides so its not an issue some lakes arent so easy,i also have an inflatable raft if i ever need it.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 13, 2017, 10:18:30 PM
I'm trying to decide whether to install a flood chamber or not how many times is it likely to flip over and is fitting the flood chamber a  100% success of it turning back over. I know that Jan is in favour of the flood  ?
Hi Grant,

How often your boat is likely to flip, depends on how powerfull you're going to make it, how fast it'll run and in which conditions you're going to run it.
If you've seen the video of me running my Arowana in the canal, you can see I start on calm water.
As the run progresses, 'racewater' starts to form.
I even manage to flip the boat in these conditions..., granted, this is mainly due to poor handling on my part, being distracted by the camera on my cap, but still.

Often I am asked by an onlooker if he (or she) can have a go.
Depending on how fast the boat is I'm running at that time, the answers is usually no, if the person in question has never tried to steer a fast electric.
If he, or she, has ran boats before and there's room on the water to allow mishaps, I sometimes hand over the transmitter.
The careful ones tend to run partial throttle too much, heating up both ESC and motor, so I have to push them to run flat out on the straights, the more bold ones usually flip the boat at the first turn due to lack of experience.
This has happened to me on several occasions, both on rivers and ponds; on a river, having a working floodchamber is critical, if you don't want to have to swim after your boat, once it's upside down...
On a pond, a flipped boat without a floodchamber is a bit easier to retreive.

Having a haphazard working floodchamber isn't an option; it is extra work to build it and it has to work 100% after every flip, as long as the boat isn't damaged in the tumble and the battery doesn't get dislodged (something to consider in every fast electric).

The floodchamber in every boat I've build, work. Period. Otherwise it's a waste of time and effort.

Big(ish) hulls like the Wasabi 900 tend to be quite stable runners, but will flip when pushed both in speed and handling.
The more time I spend running a boat, the less it'll flip, because you learn to read it's behaviour and reactions to your input.
Not flipping during a race is more important than having the fastest boat of the pack (and ending up upside down without a floodchamber...).

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 14, 2017, 09:04:21 AM
Decided..... It's having a flood chamber. How far down the boat should it end at frame 5 or as long as possible and how far should it encroach towards the middle. I would imagine it's easier to include before the top of the boat is glued on. I have got 2 of those hrb batteries 3s to run in series, should these ly on the centre line or equal either side ?
Did you enjoy your vacation
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 14, 2017, 10:03:03 PM
Hi Grant,

Here's a link to a Wasabi, reduced to 650 mm:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1112784-Wasabi-600/page2

As you can see the floodchamber is large and long.
Stopping it at bulkhead nr 5 will be too small for the 900 mm version...

A guideline to determen where the inner wall should be, is to offset the drivetrain (motor, shaft and stinger/strut) to the right by 8-10 mm and mark that position in the hull.
See if the 3S packs will fit upright in the hull against the floodchamber wall, left of the center line, the wall should be at least 40 - 50 mm high, preferably more.

With a single pack (two behind eachother) the floodchamber wall can be very far towards the center line, mark that position in the hull too.

Now calculate the volume you'll have with the floodchamber stopping at bulkhead 5, at nr 4 and all the way forward, like in the pictures in the link.
The internal volume should be at least 2,5 L, preferably (a lot) more, the more flotation the floodchamber' content will annialate, the less weight (lead) you'll need at the utmost left rear of the hull to get a working floodchamber.

As I mentioned before, a hull with a floodchamber has the weight concentrated left of the center line, having a pack on each side of the motor will not allow the floodchamber to work as advertised.

Once you know the volume of the different sizes floodchamber, you can determen the position of the motor and the choice of drive line; wiredrive, with a long solid shaft (with a slight bend if desired), or a flexshaft, with the option to position the motor further back in the hull.

Again, first calculate how large the floodchamber can be.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 15, 2017, 12:48:23 AM
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/6/4/5/2/7/a3096799-8-IMG_1626.jpg)

(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/6/4/5/2/7/a3096798-39-IMG_1625.jpg)
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 15, 2017, 04:34:04 AM
I've roughly measured what volume I would have stopping at frame 5 which would be 2.7l
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 15, 2017, 09:02:20 AM
With regards to the water cooling system I saw the photo you had put on Jan of your water pickup comparing it to the rudder pickups which is better?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 15, 2017, 09:17:09 AM
Found these to run down the top left hand side, cut them in flush for the flood chamber??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 15, 2017, 09:53:29 AM
I've roughly measured what volume I would have stopping at frame 5 which would be 2.7l
Hi Grant,

Judging by the pictures of Cornells 650 cm version, that may, or may not be sufficient.
How far does the floodchamber wall protrude into the boat with your calculations?

Reason I ask, is that most boats with a floodchamber (which stops at 'frame 5') flip back over the stern for the biggest part, often aided with an extension at the transom.
The Wasabi has a flattened rear end, leaving little room for such an extension.
As you can see, Cornell took the trouble of altering the exit of the floodchamber.

A floodchamber extending all the way forward often has issues filling up completely when the boat is upside down, due to the large remaining buoyancy of a 900mm hull.
A tube to let out the trapped air won't work in this case, as the front (nose) section doesn't get submerged...

I'd move the floodchamber end one frame forward, giving you about 3L.
Adding lead to the far left rear corner will make the floodchamber work.

With regards to the water cooling system I saw the photo you had put on Jan of your water pickup comparing it to the rudder pickups which is better?
My pressureless intake/outlet system has no drag to speak of.
A wedge rudder alone, without a water inlet, has more drag due to it's shape, than the knife blade rudder I'm using, the water inlet adds to that drag.

The 'buckets' on Cornells boat have even more drag...

It's not a matter of having as much flow as possible through your cooling lines, some boats look like speeding fountains with a huge amount of water traveling through the cooling system.
Not only does this generate a lot of drag, the water barely gets the opportunity to absorb heat from the ESC and cooling jacket, so it's not being effective at all.

When you choose the right components and use them within their limits, a steady drizzle through the cooling lines is sufficient to keep the heat down.
My pressureless system provides more than a steady drizzle, as I tested on one boat that has just the inlet in the bottom and the outlet in the side.

The aluminium itself and the construction needed to screw them onto, adds weight above the waterline, raising the CoG, which doesn't help the running attitude at speed.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 15, 2017, 10:17:02 AM
Cheers Jan.  :-))
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 15, 2017, 10:58:05 AM
How's about these water pickup units fitted flush on bottom ??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 15, 2017, 11:50:59 AM
Hi Grant,

The idea is similar to my pressureless system, but (big but!), there is a 90 angle from the intake to the brass hose connection on top and the transition into that brass piece isn't smooth.
As the silicon tubing will point up, there's a height that needs to be overcome by the water pressure before it'll fill the system.
Having a second one pointing the other way to create suction will help, but keeping the tubing low in the hull works better, see the attached picture.

As a side note: you'll be restricted in where the inlet and outlet will fit in the hull due to the tubes sticking up, also using long silicon tubes will create massive drag, to the point where's there no flow unless you run full throttle to fill the system.
As the inlet and outlet will be right of the center line, there won't be much of a room issue, but the drag due to the height and length of the silicon tubing remains.
I'm using internally smooth aluminium tubing for a reason...

It's the easy way out for people who don't want to make the effort to fill a 4 mm thin walled aluminium tube with sand or salt, close off both ends and gently bend it around an circular object of the desired diameter.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 15, 2017, 12:05:06 PM
I See what you mean, I've got a pipe bender for brake lines which will do a nice tight curl. I note that the esc needs a cooling line and the motor needs one as well do I run both of 1 line or would it be better for 2 separate.


With regards to the flood chamber I've a chunk of polystyrene which I'll shape so 1 of the batteries can sit left of central into the flood chamber and the other maybe same distance on right or would there be a better place to fit them, as I see from your boat the inset of the foam for a battery to sit?.
Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 15, 2017, 01:34:04 PM
Hi Grant,

I don't quite understand your intentions with the Styrofoam.
The foam in my pictures was covered with glasscloth and epoxy resin, once the epoxy had cured (fully!), the foam was mechanically removed, forming the floodchamber in a polyester hull.

As you're building in wood, I'd use that for the floodchamber too.

Could you post a picture of your build taken from above, not an an angle?
I can use that picture to draw in my ideas on the layout, as pictures work better than words...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 15, 2017, 02:19:11 PM
The left hand side is cut way on the frame the rear I'll cut after I've decided how big it's going to be.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 15, 2017, 03:08:55 PM
Finally got one that fits the guidelines
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 15, 2017, 05:06:42 PM
Hi Grant,

Almost...
Could you give it another go?
This time with the camera over the center of the boat, not from any angle.

I tried to draw on the first picture, but from this angle it's hard to estimate the correct proportions of all components.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 15, 2017, 05:17:08 PM
Try these, that's great I can see where everything should go for the best outcome. Thank you
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 17, 2017, 07:57:08 PM
Hi Grant,

I did the drawing on your latest picture showing where the components could live, mind you, 'could', as it's up to you to determen their exact position in the hull by marking the Cog on the hull (28-32% of the hull length measured from the transom forward, in case of a 900 mm hull that would be between 288 and 252 mm) and shifting motor and Lip's around to get everything balanced, keeping in mind the rudder assembly and the servo will shift the balance further to the rear.

I had to guess the position of the floodchamber wall, as I can't calculate that, based on your estimates.

Work with the dimensions of the lip's and see how far the floodchamber wall can protrude into the hull towards the center line; the further, the better, as it'll shift the volume more to the rear, due to the fact you'll be able to move the front of the floodchamber towards the rear (say from frame 4 to five) while keeping an eye on the volume you calculated.

Do I still make sense...?

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 18, 2017, 12:29:03 AM
Cheers Jan, for that all I need now is to know what drive shaft, rudder,fin and prop to get.? Weve got so far,
4082-1450 motor
2 x 3s 6000mah hrb lipo
Flycolor 150 amp
Savox servo.


Thanks for all the help Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 18, 2017, 11:26:20 AM
We've got so far,
4082-1450 motor
2 x 3s 6000mah hrb lipo
Flycolor 150 amp
Savox servo.
Hi Grant,

When you say: "We've got so far", do you mean you've got those items in front of you, or just on your shopping list?
Reason I ask, is that I share the torque concern with Martin regarding the Turnigy 4082-1450Kv car motor.
Please, don't be guided too much by the price, get a proper motor like the TFL SSS series.

I also think 1450Kv is on the low side of the spectrum for 6S; you'll have between 27000 and 28000 rpm under load, which requires a fairly large prop to get a quick boat.
Large props generate a lot of proptorque and propwalk issues, which on a boat this size can cause it to get undrivable very rapidly.
Personally I'd go for the motor I mentioned earlier, the SSS 4082-1800Kv:
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html?switch_country=GB&products_id=1110
This one has the torque and the price is a nice compromise, compared to a high end motor like the Plettenberg  (http://www.schaller-compositi.it/ecomm/uploaded/1449.jpg) (http://www.schaller-compositi.it/ecomm/site.php?mode=DET&idp=1449) HP 220BM/50/A3 S P4 (1810Kv), which would set you back 335,00...

Knowing what type of drivetrain you're going for helps making suggestions for what to get.
Either a long wiredrive, with the motor up front as in my sketch, or a flexshaft, which allows the motor to sit closer to the transom.

Both options have consequenses for the position of motor and Lipo's, so you'll have to play with those weights inside the empty hull to know what should go where in order to get the GoG right and have a functioning floodchamber.

A powertrim like this one allows the use of a flex shaft as well as a wire drive:
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Power-Trimm/Power--Trimm--4-75-mm--77-mm.html
Preferably with a wet well for easy adjustment of the propshaft angle.

Found another Wasabi video, not sure what size the boat is, most likely similar to yours.
To give you an idea what to expect, when motorized properly.
Disregard the poor driving, I see that a lot in Russian video's...
https://youtu.be/A9s_0NJHaNY

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 18, 2017, 12:52:33 PM
The motor is the thing I've not purchased yet, I've seen some leopard motors with a bigger kv even a 4092 ,  if I go with the sss  version you have recommended what drive shaft and prop to get along with prop holder.
I've looked for wire drive but not sure what you mean would a flex drive not suffice as I've seen loads of them. Now the brass tube and Teflon inner thing is there any I should not go with etc.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 18, 2017, 01:09:28 PM
The sss motor that is 4082- 1750 would a 2000kv version be ok or is that too high? I've also found a 4092-1650kv perhaps this one??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 18, 2017, 03:24:46 PM
Hi Grant,

A 1800Kv motor on 6S will give you close to 34000 rpm under load, this is already considered a hot setup.
If you go for a 2000Kv motor, that would be close to 38000 rpm under load, this is SAW territory, fast straight runs on flat water, don't expect to be able to make a narrow turn at speed without a violent flip.
This is a video of the same boat; the pilot has no clue how to run a fast electric (keep making left turns when you can hear the single prop boat doesn't like it and wants to spin out), the last part is slightly less moronic and, the boat stays the right side up in these flat conditions:
https://youtu.be/BtJy3c6pi28 (https://youtu.be/BtJy3c6pi28)

If you want to go for even more torque with a 4092-1650kv (link?) check if your ESC will handle that.

The choice for a wire drive or a flexshaft is yours; a flexshaft needs to be taken out after every day of running, cleaned, dried and stored until the next run, than it has to be greased and put back into the boat.
A wire drive only needs a yearly re-lube and a drop of oil on the bushings, prior to every run.

The powertrim I linked to earlier can be fitted out with this solid endpiece:
http://HTTP://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Endstuecke--Drive--Dog-usw-/4-75-mm-Endstuecke--Drive-Dog--PEEK/va-endstueck-90mm-x-4-75-mm-federwelle.html (http://HTTP://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Endstuecke--Drive--Dog-usw-/4-75-mm-Endstuecke--Drive-Dog--PEEK/va-endstueck-90mm-x-4-75-mm-federwelle.html)
Notice the options on the right: 4mm, 2mm and 2,5 mm spring steel shaft.
Or the flex shaft version:
http://HTTP://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Endstuecke--Drive--Dog-usw-/4-75-mm-Endstuecke--Drive-Dog--PEEK/4-75-mm-Endstueck-mit-4-75-mm-Flexwelle--re--hg.html (http://HTTP://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Endstuecke--Drive--Dog-usw-/4-75-mm-Endstuecke--Drive-Dog--PEEK/4-75-mm-Endstueck-mit-4-75-mm-Flexwelle--re--hg.html)

It all boils down to which configuration you go for, regarding the position of the heavy components in the hull.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 18, 2017, 04:05:11 PM
HI Jan neither link works.


I'm going to go with a flex shaft don't mind doing a bit of cleaning and 're greasing. Looking at the size of shaft diameter what size should I be aiming for?
Going to get these shortly but what else would I require??


https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Ruder/Ruder-mittel-bis-130mm/Ruder-H--100-x-122-mm-mit-WaKue.html
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/product_info.php?info=p184_power--trimm--4-75-mm--77-mm.html&no_boost=1
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/product_info.php?info=p1179_kuehlmantel-fuer-40er-brushlessmotor--68-mm-lang--silber---.html&no_boost=1
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/product_info.php?info=p1110_bl-motor-4082-1800kv---4d.html&no_boost=1
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Motorhalter-Elektro/Karbon-BL--Motortraeger-fuer-4074-silber.html
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 18, 2017, 05:44:58 PM
Hi Grant,

Sorry for that, the spell checker altered the link.

As you chose the 4,75 mm power trim, I'd take this flexshaft (make sure you know which length to order):
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Endstuecke--Drive--Dog-usw-/4-75-mm-Endstuecke--Drive-Dog--PEEK/4-75-mm-Endstueck-mit-4-75-mm-Flexwelle--re--hg.html
A coupler would be nice, I'd take the three vart version:
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Kupplungen/fuer-4-75-mm-Flexwelle/Spannzange--Zentrierkupplung-5-mm---4-75-mm---3-Teigig--.html

You'll also need a brass tube (with teflon liner) between the transom and the motor with support for the brass tubing.

Consider a wet well for ease of angle adjustment.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 18, 2017, 05:50:35 PM
Cheers.
What is a wet well?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 18, 2017, 07:08:59 PM
Found this on the eBay is this like taking a gun to a knife fight or does just fit what's needed.

Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 18, 2017, 07:09:48 PM
Hi Grant,

A wet well is basically a hole in the transom where the stuffing tube enters it, it's substantially larger than the stuffing tube with a rubber seal at the end inside the hull.
Look at the pictures in this link from post #71 onward.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2489368-New-Impulse-31-V3-goes-41-mph-on-4s/page5 (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2489368-New-Impulse-31-V3-goes-41-mph-on-4s/page5)

A wet well allows you to adjust both height and angle of the propshaft when using a strut, like in the pictures.
With a power trim, the height is pretty much fixed (unless you elongate the holes where the mounting bolts go through) and only the angle can be adjusted.

As the height adjustment isn't as critical when you get the height of the exit through the transom right in the first place (which is easier to do in a DIY boatbuild than in a factory mass produced boat), being able to adjust the angle is sufficient in my opinion.

The wet well not only allows you to adjust the angle, but also makes the transition of the stuffing tube through the transom into the boat watertight.
A powertrim bolted onto the transom without a wet well is the cause of water ingress in many boats.

In all my boats I don't bother with adjustable propshafts, as I like to keep things simple, I use a solid shaft which I mount in the correct position and be done with it, never had any handling issues due to propshaft angle or height when dialing in my boats...
See pictures.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 18, 2017, 07:11:46 PM
Found this on the eBay is this like taking a gun to a knife fight or does just fit what's needed.
Hi Grant,

Without telling us what you found, it's hard to know what you're talking about...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 18, 2017, 07:18:42 PM
EBay item number 122432625249
Technology can't get photo to the size to fit on 300kb
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 18, 2017, 07:47:09 PM
Hi Grant,

You can also copy the address from the top of the screen:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-16-4-76mm-Drive-Shaft-W-Length-and-Angle-Adjustable-Stinger-for-RC-Boat-1431-/122432625249?hash=item1c818d9a61 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-16-4-76mm-Drive-Shaft-W-Length-and-Angle-Adjustable-Stinger-for-RC-Boat-1431-/122432625249?hash=item1c818d9a61)
Having the length adjustable is a nice gadget, but nothing more, you'll never touch that feature again once you've put it at the desired position.
It's not like you're going to swap that stinger from one size (length) boat to another, adjusting the stinger length to the boat at hand...
You may aswell buy the correct length stinger / strut / powertrim right away, it's a lot cheaper.

On another note; will it fit on the Wasabi transom, as the base plate is about 35 mm high and you'll need room underneath as well?

But, it's your money...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 18, 2017, 07:52:05 PM
Only a thought as it had tfl on it. Getting the stinger you recommended in a few posts ago, just building a shopping list for tfl site might aswell get it all together.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 19, 2017, 02:29:02 PM
So we have got electrics
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Wasserkuehlung--Nippel/fuer-BL--Motore/ab-40-mm/Kuehlmantel-fuer-40er-Brushlessmotor--70-mm-lang--schwarz.html
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html
Flycolor 150amp esc
And hardware
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Antrieb/Power-Trimm/Power--Trimm--4-75-mm--77-mm.html
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Ruder/Ruder-mittel-bis-130mm/Ruder-H--100-x-122-mm-mit-WaKue.html
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Motorhalter-Elektro/Karbon-BL--Motortraeger-fuer-4074.html
when I've got some cash look at this and see what else I require, I've got silicone tuning do I need a bigger tube to fit the brass tube into and what kind of propellor is required brass/plastic/aluminium pitch ???


I will be installing the flood chamber as diagram you sketched on in 1.5mm plywood coated in epoxy resin.


One thing I've wondered with the stinger and prop shaft needing to be certain measurement do I imagine the transom ends in a V shape and take the measurements from that point or do I go of the actual bottom at it has a flat bottom.??


Can you send me a link to see a wire drive cant seem to find one and if its same price or just slightly deaer i may go for that instead of flexishaft.







Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 19, 2017, 03:58:36 PM
Those motors would have been much cheaper from china from tfl or any outlet selling them  in the USA rather than paying euro prices.90 euros for that motor is a bit much .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 19, 2017, 04:05:56 PM
 :-)) Cheers for that, I'll search for them else were,but that's what I've decided on  :-))
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 19, 2017, 04:50:26 PM
Not sure if Jan has heard anything about these motors,this one is a car motor so might not have the torque of the sss series but at this price it might  be worth a try,ive used the leopard car motors before now with no problems .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOMCAT-1-5-RC-Car-Brushless-Motor-4-Pole-1650KV-1T-TC-CAR-4082-KV1650-/282533074413?hash=item41c84895ed:g:GoYAAOSwCkZZR3xZ (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOMCAT-1-5-RC-Car-Brushless-Motor-4-Pole-1650KV-1T-TC-CAR-4082-KV1650-/282533074413?hash=item41c84895ed:g:GoYAAOSwCkZZR3xZ)
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 19, 2017, 05:55:12 PM
Hi Grant,

If you want to use a 4082 motor, it's wise to order a motormount for that motor, the 4074 mount will be too short:
https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Motorhalter-Elektro/motorhalter-fuer-4082-und-4092.html
Also this mount only has room for a 68 mm cooling jacket, the 70 mm one you listed will be too long.

I'll make some pictures of a spare wiredrive I have here tomorrow, the ones at the TFL site are similar; in stead of the endpiece with a flexshaft welded onto it, the flexshaft is replaced by the 2 mm wire drive, hence the need to order the endpiece with the appropriate hole drilled into it.

@Martin: I use the TFL Europ shop as reference, easy to have everything in one place.
No worries, I was going to look for other sellers to get the parts (a lot) cheaper once Grant had decided on what to get.

I must say I have no experience with the motors from that link, but have read favourable posts about the similar priced GoolRC motors.
Not sure if these can keep up with the SSS motors though.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 19, 2017, 11:47:27 PM
Wire drive info:
https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?26887-Spartan-wire-drives
Picture of wiredrive:
https://www.rc-raceboats.de/shop/ruder-wellenanlagen/wellen-flex-starr-powertrim/federstahl-kompaktwellenanlage-600er-variom-bbb-expert.html

I'll add some pictures of the wire drive I have here tomorrow/ later today (oops, is that the time?)...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 20, 2017, 10:37:16 AM
Personally i always use flexshaft setups never used a wire drive ,can you still get the correct angle at the stinger drive with a wire drive ? . No experience with them to be honest .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 20, 2017, 10:46:20 AM
Cheers, I read a lot about both, and both have there good and bad points from looking at it from the outside it does seem the flexishaft is the best way to go, until things are explained. There are obviously hundreds that prefer the wire and the same as for flexishaft.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 20, 2017, 12:44:41 PM
Found the sss motors for good price which size would be good the 4082-1600kv or the 4082-1850kv
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 20, 2017, 01:18:55 PM
On eBay now
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SSS-Motor-4082-1600kv-Brushless-Motor-RC-Boat-Car/162127005616?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D45728%26meid%3D900827c5e2e0427181f1e9e00cebd1be%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D162251012638&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850


http://www.ebay.com/itm/GoolRC-4082-1600KV-4-Poles-Brushless-Sensorless-Motor-for-RC-Boat-S5Y1/401213286745?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45728%26meid%3D3400d6a902ea4d4e9a9150655394054a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D162127005616&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


http://www.ebay.com/itm/GoolRC-4092-1250KV-Brushless-Motor-Water-Cooling-Jacket-for-1000mm-Boat-V3D3/252607284677?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45728%26meid%3D079634ad7ca34f0893ee2a00ec1049cc%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D222322907437&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 20, 2017, 02:01:37 PM
The goolrc motors are unavailable in UK postal so it's only the Sss motor 4082-1600kv is this a suitable motor? It's a good price too??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 20, 2017, 02:47:30 PM
Hi Grant,

Comparing the SSS and GoolRC 4082-1600Kv specs, I don't see a lot of differences, so I'd go for the cheapest one and use the  you save for the watercooling jacket...
It's possible they are being made in the same factory with different prints on them.

1600Kv on 6S is right in the ballpark (32000 rpm under load).

If you look long enough the price comes down even more:
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/Original-GoolRC-High-Performance-4082-1600KV-4-Poles-Brushless-Sensorless-Motor-for-1000mm-or-Above-RC/32741832599.html?spm=a2g0z.10010108.1000016.1.38b944afGikyPB&isOrigTitle=true

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 20, 2017, 02:49:07 PM
Great
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 20, 2017, 02:52:47 PM
Can't find any available for UK shipment, and where was the blue one??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 20, 2017, 02:56:53 PM
This ones blue  :-)) :}
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOMCAT-1-5-RC-Car-Brushless-Motor-4-Pole-1650KV-1T-TC-CAR-4082-KV1650-/282533074413?hash=item41c84895ed:g:GoYAAOSwCkZZR3xZ
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 20, 2017, 02:59:33 PM
It only works out 8 cheaper and I think it's better to go with a known quality in the boating circles than a car brushless motor.

Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 20, 2017, 03:09:14 PM
It only works out 8 cheaper and I think it's better to go with a known quality in the boating circles than a car brushless motor.
Hi Grant,

To be honest, I think the major difference between the blue and black motors is the way the wires exit the can, wattage wise there should not be a lot of difference, unless there are major design differences which we can't see from the outside....
Having the wires exit the can 'car style' is a nuisance in a boat when using a motormount with a support ring...
You'll need a motormount and jacket, check first which size jacket will fit the mount:
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/Original-GoolRC-Aluminum-40-L-Water-Cooling-Jacket-Cover-for-4082-4092-RC-Boat-Brushless-Motor/32737895627.html?spm=a2g0z.search0304.4.42.WaypGc (https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/Original-GoolRC-Aluminum-40-L-Water-Cooling-Jacket-Cover-for-4082-4092-RC-Boat-Brushless-Motor/32737895627.html?spm=a2g0z.search0304.4.42.WaypGc)
The 72 mm of the one in the link may be too long...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 20, 2017, 05:13:58 PM
I have now ordered from the far reaches of the world, not the usual for me, but I've learnt a lesson saved my self quite a few bob, well as long as it arrives in one piece all together....... :-))
Flycolor 150amp esc
SSS motor 4082-1600kv
Tfl rudder
Tfl power trim 4.76 77mm
Silicone tubing
Water jacket
2 x 3s 6000mah lipo
Stainless steel push rod
Savox waterproof servo


Now all I need is ???
One question as I'm now on for it does the splashing rail on both sides run from transom to front?? I've seen from past posts that Martin has included how to do the rails with extending the sides and filling with filler ?. Just normal wood filler or carbody filler  {:-{


Where as in the plans the transom runs flat and the cockpit has none at all shape, I will be changing to give it a better appearance.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 20, 2017, 05:22:39 PM
Hi Grant,

The weather wasn't good overhere so I had to take pictures in between rain showers, the lighting isn't as good as I would have liked, but you'll get the idea.

The pictures show the wire drive I'm using in the bulk of my boats from 70 - 90 cm, like the Arowana in my earlier pictures.

The motor is my SSS 4074-2200Kv for size.

The drive has a two part solid section, the 4 mm endpiece and the 2 mm wire to the coupler, joined by silver solder.
As there's no adjustment, the 4 mm section is rather long, for a longer distance between the three ballbearings in the stuffing tube; one in the middle and two at the prop side.

The thinner section around the 2 mm has a Teflon liner to avoid whipping.

The other pictures show the 4074 bolted onto the 70 mm long motorflange with the 5 x 2 mm coupler inside.
No allignment issues.

This wire drive is for my JetChopper30, currently waiting to be assembled.

When using a powertrim and a wet well, the endpiece is shorter, it fits inside the endpiece and the 2 mm part is longer and runs inside the stuffing tube, with the Teflon liner.
The stuffing tube stops at the rubber seal of the wet well and the liner runs all the way into the powertrim.
That way the section inside the wet well can move to accomodate the angle adjustment (if required).

I make it a point to position the stuffing tube in the hull at the correct height and angle, so I can use this type of wire drive and don't have the extra work of installing a wet well...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 20, 2017, 05:31:50 PM
Now all I need is ???

A couple of 3S Lipo's (or blocks the size and weight of those lipos) so you can play with their position and that of the motor in the hull, getting the balance point right and (very important!) determen the maximum volume of the floodchamber in relation to the position of the heavy objects in the hull.

A wire drive or flexshaft and a fitting coupler.

One question as I'm now on for it does the splashing rail on both sides run from transom to front?? I've seen from past posts that Martin has included how to do the rails with extending the sides and filling with filler ?. Just normal wood filler or carbody filler  {:-{

That's what I would do.

Where as in the plans the transom runs flat and the cockpit has none at all shape, I will be changing to give it a better appearance.
Be carefull with altering the top of the design, motorised as planned, at full throttle, the aerodynamics of the top most certainly plays a big part in the handling (or lack of).

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 20, 2017, 05:44:07 PM
I purchased those batteries you had suggested hrb I think got 2 3s lipos, so I will be able to play with positioning. With regards to the filler normal wood or carbody filler?
Do you have a link with the rubber seal for the wet well ?
I worked out I need a Teflon liner along with a brass tube along with a flex shaft and collet. What prop size would I be looking to research
Many thanks Grant
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 20, 2017, 09:23:09 PM
Hi Grant,

Right, it slipped my mind you already had ordered HRB Lipo's...

The rubber seal at the end of the wet well depends on the size of the wet well tube; it should be some kind of a rubber grommet used for steering rods, just a larger size, fitting over the end of the wet well with the brass tube in the middle, supple enough to allow some up and down movement of the stuffing tube, while the Teflon liner does the actual bending when the powertrim is moved up or down.
We're talking 1-2, as installing the powertrim at the correct height in the transom to begin with is the best way to avoid the need for excessive bending of the propshaft.
 
I'll have to look into that, as I've never used a wet well / flooded stuffing tube.
Different sizes silicone tubing spring to mind...
Some light reading on the subject: https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?49967-quick-and-easy-flooded-stuffing-tube (https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?49967-quick-and-easy-flooded-stuffing-tube)
Larger boat, but the principle remains the same:
https://www.rcsparks.com/forum/threads/monster-mono.36635/

As you're building in wood, this is also an option (#5):
https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?45106-Flooded-tube-question&highlight=flooded+stuffing+tube
Just not soo large please...

Props for this size boat and motor are from 42 mm upwards to 48 mm, both two and three blade.
I would not buy metal props, but start with the Graupner 2317 series, these are carbon filled props with a drivedog fitting for the 4.75 endpiece you need.
Get at least one 2317.42, one 2317.45 one 2317.48 to start with, so you can get a feel for which size prop works best.
Once you've dialed in the boat and you're comfortable with running the boat full throttle in light chop at 50  mph, you can think about getting a metal equivalent of the prop(s) you prefer to run in different conditions.
If the ampdraw stays within reason, you can even try a 2317.51, but you'll have to watch the temps on Lipo's, ESC and motor.

The Graupner props don't require sharpening and balancing, which is a must for metal props.
Most metal props need to have the blades thinned, sharpened and balanced to work properly.
Exceptions are the aluminium CNC props, but these are not my favourites, as the soft material dents easily and fixing that is hard to impossible without ruining the prop (even more).

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 20, 2017, 10:10:52 PM
More reading and pics on the flooded tube:
https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?22860-DF-Sniper-45-T-Mono-Build-Target-100mph&styleid=7

These large monohulls are something special and, when powered with brushless, will make a serious dent in your wallet...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 20, 2017, 10:44:40 PM
Cheers Jan
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 21, 2017, 04:28:45 AM
Silly question which way does the prop turn ?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 21, 2017, 06:08:00 AM
Silly question which way does the prop turn ?
Look at the prop and im sure you can work it out yourself  :D
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 21, 2017, 11:05:27 AM
I would of thought with having a dog in the back of the prop would of made them handed and CW and CCW, just the same as aeroplane props. Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 21, 2017, 11:24:06 AM
Silly question which way does the prop turn ?
Whatever way you make the motor run...

DD props come in CW and CCW.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 21, 2017, 11:53:28 AM
https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/props/2317-45-r-mit-drive-dog-mitnehmer-2-fluegelig.html
https://www.modellbaucenterlorenz.de/en/props/2317-45-l-mit-drive-dog-mitnehmer-2-fluegelig.html


So either one of these is fine ??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 21, 2017, 12:07:39 PM
You need a L hand prop (thats normal rotation) , R hand is counter rotating for a twin setup .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 21, 2017, 12:12:11 PM
I knew there was a difference cheers
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 21, 2017, 09:34:31 PM
normal rotating prop  ok2
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 22, 2017, 07:03:30 AM
Which profile should the spray rails be 1 or 2 ??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 22, 2017, 08:24:48 AM
Hi Grant,

1) is what Martin showed in his pictures; it deflects the spray outward.

2) tucks the spray partly under the hull and may create lift you don't want (flight risk)...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 22, 2017, 08:37:50 AM
,so I'll go with number 1, would they go right go the tip like Martin's or fall short like yours
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 22, 2017, 10:34:40 AM
One is how all my spray rails are on my boats  and the boats run perfect .Ive never done spray rails as in pic 1 nor even seen any .
Id me more worried about the strakes underneath causing too much lift than the spray rails which is why i suggested not to install them untill later if needed. Or make them shorter and dont go to the transom ,stop short by around 6".You can see the angle on this old hull,not one of mine but gives you the idea,these are a tad wider than id do them but the angle is good.Do the spray rails all the way to front by leting sides hang a tad lower that way you can add filler to get the right profile and not need to glue on bits of wood .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 22, 2017, 10:40:21 AM
Cheers Martin, yes I remember from a previous post that you advised not to add any Chines until I see how it runs. I'm just on for the spray rails and just need to know if they go right to the bow of get smaller and fall short??
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 22, 2017, 02:07:19 PM
On tne flycolor esc what of the 3 black cables are what as none of the instructions tell me so I've no idea, I assume the red and black on the same side are to the battery
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 22, 2017, 02:21:55 PM
Cheers Martin, yes I remember from a previous post that you advised not to add any Chines until I see how it runs. I'm just on for the spray rails and just need to know if they go right to the bow of get smaller and fall short??
No they go right forward tapering off towards the bow
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 22, 2017, 02:30:25 PM
Black wires are to the motor doesnt matter which goes where test and see which way the motor spins if wrong change any two wires thats it done. DO NOT TEST MOTOR UNTIL ITS MOUNTED IN THE BOAT ,or you could hurt your hand,i know a friend who held one and it broke his wrist OUCH.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ0gH4EAcOM
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 22, 2017, 03:06:05 PM
What is the best connector to use for the amp draw I see the cables are 10sw but what connector?..?
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 22, 2017, 04:18:20 PM
What is the best connector to use for the amp draw I see the cables are 10sw but what connector?..?
I'm using 4 mm goldplated, as I have that as a standard in all my boats, but for the next build with the SSS4074- 2200Kv it's going to be 5 or 6 mm goldplated all around.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 22, 2017, 04:55:27 PM
Something like this:
https://guide.alibaba.com/shop/3-pair-of-5-5mm-gold-plated-bullet-connectors-3-male-3-female_52608235.html

I have a handful of these lying around and without the cable soldered in place you'll need pliers to get them connected and disconnected...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 22, 2017, 05:17:09 PM
I've got a few xt60 and about a dozen ec5 left over from other projects they'll do then put ec5 motor side and after the series connector. Just need to get some swg cable
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 22, 2017, 09:01:11 PM
Hi Grant,

If your EC5 are the sort with the spring cage on them, you'll need to solder the cage onto the connector on the foot (not the tip!), making sure the cage can still flex, in order to maintain a good connection.

Reason I mention this is the fact these cages present quite a lot of resistance when left loose, particularly after some use.
The connector will get hot as a result, to the point where the solder will melt and the cable can disconnect itself (= dead boat), been there, done that, just a few weeks ago: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=38150352&postcount=207 (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=38150352&postcount=207)

Fixing the cage with solder should be done after the cable has been soldered in to avoid the solder dripping into the cage, ruining the connector.
Work fast, while securing the cable in the connector (cool it with a damp cloth) and use a big soldering iron, so the heating up is quick and only at the cage.

For the work and trouble, I'd rather get 'proper' 5,5 mm connectors.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 22, 2017, 09:39:23 PM
Hi Grant,

For the work and trouble, I'd rather get 'proper' 5,5 mm connectors.

Regards, Jan.
Totally agree keep it simple  :} .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 23, 2017, 06:43:53 AM
Do you mean something like these as there just the same as the ec5 one justwith out the pladtic case
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/polymax-5-5mm-gold-connectors-10-pairs-20pc.html
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 23, 2017, 06:46:37 AM
These are the type I have lying around  https://hobbyking.com/en_us/new-ec5-male-5-set-per-bag.html
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 23, 2017, 11:25:27 AM
Hi Grant,

Doesn't the link I sent, work?
Those are the short version, a bit less bulky in tight spaces.

These are longer:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-PAIRS-RC-CONNECTOR-5MM-GOLD-PLATED-MALE-AND-FEMALE-BULLETS-PLUGS-/221674735378 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-PAIRS-RC-CONNECTOR-5MM-GOLD-PLATED-MALE-AND-FEMALE-BULLETS-PLUGS-/221674735378)

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 23, 2017, 11:39:18 AM
HI Jan, the connectors you just sent are just the same style as I have they are the solid slit type not the balloon versions.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 23, 2017, 12:50:32 PM
Good tip for soldering them is i drill a cpl holes in some billet aluminium or steel sit the connectors in heat em up add solder and push the wires in ,job done .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 23, 2017, 12:54:50 PM
Cheers Martin good tip I like it  :-)) been looking at that wet well idea and came across small rubber boots , like the ones on ball joints etc on a car.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on August 23, 2017, 04:12:26 PM
Hi Grant,

If you studied the links regarding the shape and use of a wet well/flooded tube, you will have seen/read the section closest to the motor can be smaller in than the hole in the transom.

If to make your wet well out of wood, it's very easy to incorporate the bottom of the hull as the lower part add two sides that start the size of the stuffing tube (or just a little larger) and flare out towards the transom, but only in height, not in width, a kind of flattened trumpet so to speak.
If I don't make sense to you, ask for a sketch.

It gets worse; with a powertrim you basically have no height adjustment, so the position where the propshaft exits the transom into the powertrim is cruicial for the running attitude.

Assuming your props will be between 45 and 51 mm, you should be able to adjust the height (not the angle!) of the propshaft by half the difference, which is 3 mm.
The mounting holes in the powertrim can be elongated, allowing the mounting plate to slide up 3 mm.

The flare in the wetwell will have to accomodate that height difference.

The purpose of this exercise is that you exit the transom at the height corresponding with a 45 mm prop and that you're able to slide the powertrim up to suit a bigger propsize if required.
I deliberately neglect smaller props, as these won't give you the speed you'll want after trying a 42 mm one...

It gets worse still; in order to keep the propshaft in the middle of the transom, in stead of offsetting it to the right to counteract propwalk, which is a good idea by the way, I would suggest going the path of a lot of German boaters by leaving the exit of the propshaft in the center, but moving the motor (and propshaft) to thr right, creating a small angle of 2-3, by which the propshaft/powertrim point towards the left (viewed from behind.

Reason for this is my experience with offset drivelines; it is very hard to know in advance how far the offset should be, all my boats have it and with the growing power installed, I always get beyond the point where the offset works and the rudderblade can stay straight for straight running...
Once the power installed get beyond that point, I have to steer left to run straight.
This upsets the running attitude of the boat in question to no end and spontanious flips 'out of the blue' happen ofter as the speed goes up.

Installing the drivetrain at an angle makes the correction, when more power is applied, grow with the speed building up.

Think about it.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 23, 2017, 05:46:50 PM
I got the impression that as long as the stuffing tube  was able to move freely at the end of the boat it just ment sealing the hull some how.
I know now that the stuffing tube can be fixed solid up near the motor end and left to dangle at the transom only being fixed in place by the stinger or strut. I may buy a strut as the fixing holes are no where near the wet well hole and as I'm making the transom high it should be ok to fix onto.
Is there any struts I should steer clear off.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 25, 2017, 06:31:04 AM
Ive never used a wet well all my boats use a flex cable setup straight out the transom into the stinger or strut,the hole in transom is a slight oval to allow a bit of up and down adjustment and i seal the hole with flexable sealant ,never had any problems with that setup.At the motor end the tube is fixed ,you can either use a t bar or fix it in using a larger diam sleeve and a bit of glass cloth tape and epoxy as in this pic.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 25, 2017, 06:39:09 AM
Right let me get it straight in my head, you've got a flexishaft running in a Teflon tube within inside a brass tube(the usual set up) Then the hole lot is placed inside a close fitting brass tube which is fixed permently  inside the boat. .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 25, 2017, 11:22:35 AM
Not all my flexis have a teflon liner some are bare brass tubes i then use a small sleeve of the next size up tubing thats glassed into the boat,i just cut a bit of ply to set under the tube at the right angle once tubes bent to meet the motor then epoxy it in and glass over the whole lot , the prop shaft then slides inside that, if its a snug fit it works fine if its a tad loose i put a bit of pu adhesive on the prop shaft tube just enough to hold it so if need be i can still pull it out to swap it if i ever need to. Or you can just buy a t bar to hold it like this one in the pic and no need for the sleeve but you do need some rails fitting inside the boat to attach the t bar to .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on August 25, 2017, 12:06:16 PM
Cheers Martin
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: martno1fan on August 25, 2017, 03:31:55 PM
Always more than one way to skin a cat as they say but whatever works at the end of the day  :-) .
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on September 03, 2017, 02:56:35 AM
HI guys, been on holiday for a week just got back, now sold house so will have to put the build on hold till moved now. If you find any info out that could be useful please let me know  :-)
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on September 03, 2017, 11:32:27 AM
Ah! The joy of moving...

Let us know when you're back up and building.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Gaci4 on September 03, 2017, 12:53:06 PM
 :-))
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Tombsy on September 04, 2017, 07:34:22 PM
I have a flooded stuffing tube on my 10s mono, I used a carbon fibre tube with the brass epoxied in. It's been working very well I won all my heats against nitro boats on the weekend :)
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on September 04, 2017, 07:49:07 PM
Hi Brian,

That's mean, even if the pilots of the nitro boats have the same skill level as you, they don't stand a chance against the torque of an electric set-up...
Congrats on your wins!

Care to share your set-up with us?
Please include hull size and propchoice.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Tombsy on September 04, 2017, 11:08:03 PM
Sure Jan no problem, it's an older 42" Twincraft hull made for .45-.67 nitro engines. The motor is a ridiculously large Neu 2230 with a 300 amp Swordfish Pro+ esc. I'm only running an Octura X445 prop but it has lots of speed and the motor comes back only lukewarm after a heat. I had about 25% remaining in my 5000 mah 5s packs ( 2 in series) after a 6 lap 1 mile heat.



Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: pompebled on September 05, 2017, 08:49:33 AM
Thanks Brian,

I gather it's the 752Kv version on 10S?

Just curious; how long is the average run time over these 6 lap 1Mile heat?

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )
Post by: Tombsy on September 05, 2017, 07:19:04 PM
Yes it's the 725 kv, I also run a 1527 850kv on 10s in a scale Smokin Joes hydro.
I'd say about 2 and half minutes or so for run time allowing for the 30 second start and possible penalty laps. :) I had about 25% left in my packs using two 5s 5000mah packs.