Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: BFSMP on July 26, 2017, 11:36:24 pm

Title: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: BFSMP on July 26, 2017, 11:36:24 pm

by 2040.............


Are they going to ban cows and horses from farting in the same bill, lol.......... {-) {-) {-) {-) :police: :police: :police:


Jim.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: derekwarner on July 26, 2017, 11:42:36 pm
Jim......I thought VOLVO had mentioned reverting to and only producing horsie draw vehicles by that same 2040? O0........ Derek
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: BFSMP on July 26, 2017, 11:56:31 pm

Jim......I thought VOLVO had mentioned reverting to and only producing horsie draw vehicles by that same 2040? O0 ........ Derek


Wonder how many airbags will be fitted to them,  %% %%


Jim.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: derekwarner on July 27, 2017, 03:17:25 am
Airbags?.......

No they will not have been invented by 2040 & young Mr Takada is now still a fledgling manufacturer of horse feed bags...but you never can tell what the future holds %)

Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Baldrick on July 27, 2017, 08:57:00 am



 I can remember the old days when horse manure was a serious pollutant on our roads. Not that it stayed there long as after the milkman's horse had performed it's evacuation the neighbours would all rush out with their buckets and shovels in order to gather it to put around their roses. Sometimes quite nasty fights broke out between those arguing whose house it was deposited outside.
 Perhaps we will see the return of those times.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: malcolmfrary on July 27, 2017, 09:14:59 am
Its going to be a huge infrastructure job digging the slots in the roads and putting the metal rails in to give automatic steering and power pick up.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: raflaunches on July 27, 2017, 09:43:30 am
On a more serious note what happens to all the classic cars that rely on petrol or diesel to run. I know one day the fuel will run out but it's not going to be in the next 22 years! If they ban petrol or diesel what's going to happen to them?
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: BFSMP on July 27, 2017, 11:02:59 am

On a more serious note what happens to all the classic cars that rely on petrol or diesel to run. I know one day the fuel will run out but it's not going to be in the next 22 years! If they ban petrol or diesel what's going to happen to them?


from what I presume and deduce, they are "only"  going to ban the sale of new cars powered by petrol and diesel, which are also the least polluting vehicles on the road, compared with old classics..........just shows what moronic advisors the successive governments employ to tell them what rules n regs to make.


I wouldn't employ 95% of these idiot "advisors" to advise me on how to butter toast, never mind how to toast it......there'd be too many quangos set up just to formulate a 5,000,000 word report on the best way........and then they'd have to set up another on how to toast brown bread, because they'd banned white bread as unhealthy..........am I a cynic or what, lol.


Jim.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: TailUK on July 27, 2017, 11:13:50 am
Its going to be a huge infrastructure job digging the slots in the roads and putting the metal rails in to give automatic steering and power pick up.

Let's not forget the "cross over chicane" and the big mechanical lap counter. {-) {-) {-)
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Netleyned on July 27, 2017, 12:53:59 pm
On a more serious note what happens to all the classic cars that rely on petrol or diesel to run. I know one day the fuel will run out but it's not going to be in the next 22 years! If they ban petrol or diesel what's going to happen to them?


BBMF will also be grounded.
Ned
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: steamboatmodel on July 27, 2017, 12:57:30 pm

Let's not forget the "cross over chicane" and the big mechanical lap counter. {-) {-) {-)
And then someone drops a giant paperclip across the powerrails.
Gerald.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Mankster on July 27, 2017, 02:23:55 pm
I pity those who only have off street parking, may be some distance from their house and are unable to charge their cars overnight. Unless cars can be charged in 3 minutes at 'filling stations' the queues are going to be long....
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: roycv on July 27, 2017, 03:01:22 pm
Hi I was reading about LiFe cells (as you do!) and apparently they can be charged very quickly, a car battery in 15 - 20 minutes.  They have less storage / density capacity but are much more stable in high current conditions.
regards Roy
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Plastic - RIP on July 27, 2017, 05:14:27 pm
See http://nanoflowcell.com/

This is like a fuel cell but it comprises 2 liquids that, when spent, can be emptied at the filling station and re-filled in a few minutes.
The spent liquid tank can be hydrolised back into new fuel - probably with a wind generator at the filling station running 24/7 or a solar farm.

All the advantages and convenience of fossil fuel with the 'green-ness' of electric cars.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Yoshic48 on July 27, 2017, 05:58:41 pm
See http://nanoflowcell.com/

This is like a fuel cell but it comprises 2 liquids that, when spent, can be emptied at the filling station and re-filled in a few minutes.
The spent liquid tank can be hydrolised back into new fuel - probably with a wind generator at the filling station running 24/7 or a solar farm.

All the advantages and convenience of fossil fuel with the 'green-ness' of electric cars.
Well I know of a system very New tec  and you may think what im about to say that its old but that is NOT it Three elements ? Air, electric, and Water? that's all Im saying Zero imissions as well? but trying to get the gov to listen is a bind, heres one for you ( go on a cruse on your boat?) suck water from the front use it in turbine and excess out the back No need to carry fuel?? makes you wonder ?
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: davidm1945 on July 27, 2017, 06:54:33 pm
I pity those who only have off street parking, may be some distance from their house and are unable to charge their cars overnight. Unless cars can be charged in 3 minutes at 'filling stations' the queues are going to be long....

This is not a problem as all households will be provided with a diesel powered generator to charge their electric cars!!
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Steve Dean on July 27, 2017, 07:14:04 pm
A more pressing issue that no one in authority wants to talk about is the huge amount of money the Government raises from VAT and Fuel Duty when you fill up your car/truck/bike, etc, etc. If you think this method of raising tax is going to go away, think again. There will absolutely have to be another scheme to replace this huge amount of tax.
Also, it is reported that the National Grid is often within 10% of maximum capacity. So what happens when millions of cars are all plugged in around 7pm on a dark winters evening.

Anyway ..... we'll be able to run our cars on all the Hot Air that will be expelled on this subject as the days tick by. O0
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: dodes on July 27, 2017, 09:57:46 pm
Never mind, they are only going to ban sale of NEW vehicles, we will still be using those diesels for another 20 years or so and they may increase in value due to rarity plus a roaring trade of used car imports.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: ChrisF on July 27, 2017, 11:11:10 pm
A more pressing issue that no one in authority wants to talk about is the huge amount of money the Government raises from VAT and Fuel Duty when you fill up your car/truck/bike, etc, etc. If you think this method of raising tax is going to go away, think again. There will absolutely have to be another scheme to replace this huge amount of tax.
Also, it is reported that the National Grid is often within 10% of maximum capacity. So what happens when millions of cars are all plugged in around 7pm on a dark winters evening.

Anyway ..... we'll be able to run our cars on all the Hot Air that will be expelled on this subject as the days tick by. O0


Yes, this is something I've raised amongst friends and colleagues a number of times and is going to be a massive problem for government.


If they are going to continue with VAT and "fuel" duty they are going to have to have separate metered supplies for domestic and car use which is going to be very difficult to implement and police or increase income tax/have a new tax for users of electric vehicles which will probably reduce the take up.


These alternative fuels like LPG are only attractive when used by a small percentage of motorists and are lightly taxed. Once mainstream and taxed accordingly we shall see.

Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: BrianB6 on July 28, 2017, 12:34:07 am
For Australia to go that way, batteries capable of giving 1000 yes 1000Km range will be needed in the outback to say nothing of replacing diesel powered road trains  %%
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: tigertiger on July 28, 2017, 02:46:52 am
For Australia to go that way, batteries capable of giving 1000 yes 1000Km range will be needed in the outback to say nothing of replacing diesel powered road trains  %%
 


No problem, with 15 minute charging, just stop for a beer every 200 km.  %%
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: derekwarner on July 28, 2017, 03:34:40 am
It's OK.......

 %) our South Australian Labour Government have signed an agreement with a US Company to build & install a multi billion Amp/hour battery to supplement the SA state power grid

This is because the same dingbat Government  closed a few coal fired power stations....then a minor wind gust blew 50 wind tower generators down...[we were in the German Arms Hotel in Hahndorf eating dinner when the lights went out]

So all we will need is for each car to have a 1000 km long extension lead ....then stop for that beer  :kiss:
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: BrianB6 on July 28, 2017, 05:47:17 am
Maybe we can get a battery that runs on beer. That way the government will still get the taxes it needs.  >:-o
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: FsASTSyd1 on July 28, 2017, 07:38:43 am
Taxes - is there much left untaxed, which were introduced or increased to cover the loss from all those stopping smoking.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Tug Fanatic on July 28, 2017, 08:33:36 am
Hi I was reading about LiFe cells (as you do!) and apparently they can be charged very quickly, a car battery in 15 - 20 minutes.  They have less storage / density capacity but are much more stable in high current conditions.
regards Roy


Charging is the real problem here. Whilst it is expected that battery technology will improve to make greater range, lower cost, quicker charging etc possible there is no suggestion that traction motor technology will improve that much. It is also true that we are getting ever more gadgets and that with global warming, increasing affluence etc air conditioning might become a lot less unusual. Air conditioning uses a lot of electricity.


The problem will arise with the amount of electricity demanded by all the electric cars to be recharged. Your domestic supply might cope with one car but many families have two, three or four when kids still live at home. They all get home at 6pm and put their cars on to charge + start cooking the evening meal. The generation/ distribution/ your house system is just not designed to cope with that sort of load. As has been reported we need lots of new power sources and the ability to distribute/store the power. Wind turbines might help but if say the South East of England is having a very calm few days you will still need the distribution capacity to provide all they need. This is a massive problem and as usual political sound bites have ignored the difficulties.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: roycv on July 28, 2017, 09:01:35 am
Hi you do wonder at who various governments get their advice from.  I remember maybe 40 years ago we heard that an idiot as far as we were concerned, who we had known from work (IT) was advising the government on future IT strategy.
It is interesting to see areas where the government has a current crisis, then to check who the minister is and see what his last appointment was!
(Is this going to upset anybody)?
regards Roy
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: dougal99 on July 28, 2017, 09:14:37 am
This is getting dangerously close to a political argument. Not for this site I think.  :police:
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: JIM WORNER on July 28, 2017, 09:16:45 am
Question; could it not be possible to upgrade existing cars to multi-fuel?
Design and manufacture replacement wheel hub/brake assembles with a brushless motor-disk arrangement, add extra batteries and a revised engine control unit.  That way we would be low emissions in town and still have range.
If any one does it I waive my right to design fees!
Jim
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: ChrisF on July 28, 2017, 11:20:05 am
Tug F - Absolutely.

And as with driverless cars, despite what is spouted in the media and cars increasingly being fitted with driving aids I firmly believe that realistically both are a very long way off and won't happen whilst I'm still driving or even during my lifetime, I'm 63.

There are too many issues and problems to be overcome.

Trouble is with electric cars is that it's the manufacturers who are pushing things forward and as said the government seem to be doing little in the way of forward planning. 
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Arrow5 on July 28, 2017, 04:12:05 pm
Back to ships. Someone I`m sure has calculated the equivalent number of cars that would run for how many miles ( to the moon and back etc ?) that the average cruise ship or container ship , from China to Europe for example. would use. Different fuel of course, but big polluters. What size battery for an electric Emma Maersk !!!?     At the other end of the scale my ED Bee runs on clean paraffin, castor oil and ether. Internal combustion isn't dead yet, dope burning F1 cars would be OK by me, electric F1...NOPE !   Any thought on shipping polluters ?
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: dodes on July 28, 2017, 04:18:59 pm
Well I think the Aussie's will solve it with Fosters 4x, if the TV ads are anything to go by, but then you can go back to horses at least they can take you home by themselves. But have seen an article not long ago of the new tech of recharging batteries by radio waves, when you are driving.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: roycv on July 28, 2017, 04:22:00 pm
Hi arrows, I think the big commercial ships are going over to gas for propulsion.
Roy
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Netleyned on July 28, 2017, 04:30:09 pm
Gas is a fossil fuel
Air Travel won't go with any other fuel
Ned
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Tug Fanatic on July 28, 2017, 06:46:09 pm


Hi arrows, I think the big commercial ships are going over to gas for propulsion.
Roy


I guess that they are probably ideal for LNG. Very few people seem to know what LNG is yet but I am sure that we are going to hear a lot more about it in the future.


As it is basically non flammable I would not be that surprised about aircraft use either.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Buccaneer on July 28, 2017, 07:20:36 pm
It depends what article you read in which paper or website. Yes, it is only new cars that must be electric but one interpretation I have read also quotes Hybrids as being ok. This solves the problem of having charging points in blocks of flats or terrace houses with no parking.

Back to the 1950's and the Deltic Diesel?

John
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: malcolmfrary on July 28, 2017, 08:22:54 pm


I guess that they are probably ideal for LNG. Very few people seem to know what LNG is yet but I am sure that we are going to hear a lot more about it in the future.


As it is basically non flammable I would not be that surprised about aircraft use either.
It is less flammable than petrol, but only when contained as a liquid.  When it vapourises in air, it is every bit as dangerous as anything else.  Otherwise, it would be useless as a fuel.
Interesting reading - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_natural_gas
The thinking behind phasing out production of new fuel burners is simple enough - that is the biggest sector.  The classics will remain a very small minority.  How many classics are still running around that needed leaded petrol?  I expect any running survivors have been converted.  I do know that BTs fleet of Maestro vans was converted but the Itals and Vivas were disposed of before leaded was phased out at the firms pumps.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Tug Fanatic on July 28, 2017, 08:27:38 pm



It is less flammable than petrol, but only when contained as a liquid.  When it vapourises in air, it is every bit as dangerous as anything else.  Otherwise, it would be useless as a fuel.
Interesting reading - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_natural_gas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_natural_gas)
The thinking behind phasing out production of new fuel burners is simple enough - that is the biggest sector.  The classics will remain a very small minority.  How many classics are still running around that needed leaded petrol?  I expect any running survivors have been converted.  I do know that BTs fleet of Maestro vans was converted but the Itals and Vivas were disposed of before leaded was phased out at the firms pumps.


These two make interesting reading

https://www.portofrotterdam.com/en/cargo-industry/lng-liquefied-natural-gas/lng-as-a-fuel-for-vessels-and-trucks (https://www.portofrotterdam.com/en/cargo-industry/lng-liquefied-natural-gas/lng-as-a-fuel-for-vessels-and-trucks)

http://breakingenergy.com/2014/12/22/how-dangerous-is-lng/ (http://breakingenergy.com/2014/12/22/how-dangerous-is-lng/)

Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: dodes on July 28, 2017, 09:58:42 pm
What about methane gas, I was reading recently that the Chinese and Indians are very interested in it, apparently in the South China seas there is enough frozen  gas to meet the worlds future energy needs for 80 to 20,000 years.!
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: malcolmfrary on July 29, 2017, 09:35:28 am
The one thing about using fossil fuels that their fans forget is that to use them, we lose oxygen from the atmosphere.  I don't know about the CEOs of fuel companies who have a short term vested interest in their use, but I do like to breathe.  The fossil fuels were laid down millions of years ago in a process that took carbon out of the atmosphere and released oxygen creating an atmosphere that we could breathe.  Reversing that process as rapidly as we are doing is not good.

LNG properly contained is a lot safer than conventional fuels, but so far is only used either industrially, where proper safeguards are possible or by a small minority of users in vehicles.  In both cases, users are (hopefully) trained in its safe handling.  Making it a common use item will expose it to the lowest common denominator of the public, where "reading the instructions" and good sense are considered optional.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 29, 2017, 09:58:31 am
Somebody once remarked that if petrol had just been invented it would be immediately banned on safety grounds.

Colin
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Tug Fanatic on July 29, 2017, 10:53:15 am


......................LNG properly contained is a lot safer than conventional fuels, but so far is only used either industrially, where proper safeguards are possible or by a small minority of users in vehicles.  In both cases, users are (hopefully) trained in its safe handling.  Making it a common use item will expose it to the lowest common denominator of the public, where "reading the instructions" and good sense are considered optional.


LNG will never be a lowest denominator fuel if only because of the necessity to store it at -170C. It is however  ideal for ships, trucks and buses and other uses where it is used relatively quickly. I know that it produces CO2 & that it uses oxygen but it has not particulate emission and it evaporates leaving no residue. I wish all the buses around here used it.


It will also only burn in very specific conditions so it is safe. We will be hearing a lot more about LNG in the near future as there are very large reserves of it that have so far been little exploited. Like all the "solutions" it is something to add into the mix rather than the complete answer.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: steamboatmodel on July 29, 2017, 05:14:55 pm

I am still waiting for the Hydrogen Revolution that I first read about in the 70s. when you burn it as a fuel or use it in a fuel cell the end result is water. The original article said we could generate if from a number of sources, store it and convert it back to electricity when we needed it.
Gerald.

Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: ballastanksian on July 29, 2017, 05:36:32 pm
Governments will look at the technology, look at what makes it tick and then put a duty on consumable materials and disposal charges on any pollutants (if any).

So, in this case, the Bismuth-ION will have a duty put on it probably at the price per litre level, and they will put charges on the replaceable filters if the process of filtration produces any toxic compounds.

They were taking about energy storage this last couple of weeks on the news and I saw a method whereby air was compressed by wind generators to propell generating machinery when there was little or no wind to generate.

On the subject of ships, surely the electrolytic effect of two metals in salt water could be enhanced to drive motors to propel a ship?
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Steve Dean on July 29, 2017, 05:37:30 pm
5 prize money for the first person on this Forum who can figure out how to peel Hydrogen off stuff for free !!!!!!

Just to stir the pot a bit more ......... did you hear that whilst the announcement was being made about electric vehicles, the aviation industry stated that the UK experienced it's highest number of flights in a single day. AND they now want a radical overhaul of the Air Traffic Control System so as the number of flights can be dramatically increased. You couldn't make it up!

Tomorrow I'm going to sail my yacht ....... wind power is bliss !
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: markjames68 on July 29, 2017, 06:21:02 pm
This is one of those stupid no news events
The government have probably spent millions working up to this declaration, and here are the BUTS as i see them, ( bet my ass they dont have an answer tho)


Second hand car prices will rocket i recon, as will speculative purchase of cars that can be sold second hand, might be worth hanging on to your old bangers..


The idiots in charge get 5 % of all tax income from fuel, i can only assume they will tax the electricity you charge your car with as they can ill afford to lose the income.
The one thing that for me maks it a no news event, in 23 years, manufuacturers probably wont be making petrol cars anyway, the advances in batteries over the last 5 years has been amazing, ( LiPo), electric cars are torquier ergo faster.. ( not sure the idiots in charge will have included hybrids in their ban)


It just seems like a pointless declaration
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: malcolmfrary on July 29, 2017, 07:41:18 pm

On the subject of ships, surely the electrolytic effect of two metals in salt water could be enhanced to drive motors to propel a ship?
First you have to capture it, next the hydrogen bubbles are the result of a chemical reaction which involves loss of the metal electrodes (like the area of the doors near the hinges on early Minis) so you have to keep replacing the metal, probably paying somebody for it along the way.  Then you have to get rid of the salts produced, preferably without leaving a trail of toxic chemicals in the wake.  And, of course, to make enough hydrogen to be any use, the setup will need to be powered by a generator.  Since the process is not particularly efficient, the generator will use more fuel than a straight fuel burner.  Its the old perpetual motion chestnut.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: roycv on July 29, 2017, 08:14:18 pm
Hi all, we do not really 'make' hydrogen but release it from its bondage with oxygen.  So hopefully there will be a bit more oxygen about?
Roy
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Plastic - RIP on July 30, 2017, 11:20:23 am
Sounds like the UK is going to end up like the 3rd world or Cuba with a sub-culture of ancient vehicles and converted small-holding equipment running of chip-fat like something off The Good Life.

I can only assume that the government will steal all the lost tax by heavily taxing electricity (smart meters are for billing by the second) and implementing GPS-based pay-per-mile taxes. It all boils down to another income tax - it's mainly people going to work or using vehicles for work that will pay the bulk as 'peak pricing' will be in the rush hours. the non-working can afford to drive around off-peak.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: ChrisF on July 30, 2017, 12:01:57 pm
As we've said all this is going to create some big headaches for government. Currently there is a clear division between fuel used for vehicles and that for domestic use and it is easy to tax the motorist.

No doubt, increasingly, those with a bit of land will be fitting solar panels and wind turbines to charge their cars up so a system to fairly tax them and those without that option will be interesting.

And no doubt the "theft" of electricity will become a bigger problem in the future.

it's going to be, well is, a quandary for government. On the one hand electric cars are good for the environment and they welcome them but the electricity production and taxation they will not and if they get the taxation wrong it could actually stall the implementation of electric vehicles rather than encouraging them.

The cost of the cars is also going to be an issue as the subsidy for buying will disappear once they become mainstream and the cost needs to come down in line with petrol/diesel cars.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: IanJ on July 30, 2017, 12:42:01 pm
Why don't we all use VW's they are all environmentally friendly and don't pollute, I've certificate to prove it, sorted!
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: ChrisF on July 30, 2017, 01:00:46 pm
I've already got two (Audi and a Skoda). The Audi is a keeper for my retirement, but when we change the Skoda Yeti (great car) we may well be looking to move away from VWG cars, depends on the Brexit deal to some extent.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: canabus on July 30, 2017, 01:11:38 pm
Hi All
Change to electric scooters, no license and you can drive straight into the store for shopping.
Also I have been told the red ones go faster!!!
We have a gentleman who goes to the local shopping center and his has a full plastic roof and doors with windscreen wipers!!!
You may require a custom trailer to go model boating, but, no parking problems.
Drive straight up to the side of the pond!!!

Canabus 
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Mark T on July 30, 2017, 04:05:54 pm
So as I understand it we don't actually produce enough electricity for our current needs.  In fact we are relying on a dodgy deal with the French to build the next nuclear plant which doesn't expect to be on line for about 15 years.


And we are all going to have to scrap our cars and charge 60 million new ones through our existing or modified network - bahahahhahhaha. It'll never happen!
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: grendel on July 30, 2017, 06:01:53 pm
So as I understand it we don't actually produce enough electricity for our current needs.  In fact we are relying on a dodgy deal with the French to build the next nuclear plant which doesn't expect to be on line for about 15 years.


And we are all going to have to scrap our cars and charge 60 million new ones through our existing or modified network - bahahahhahhaha. It'll never happen!

I have been waiting to see this point raised, I work in the electricity supply industry, and your point is entirely valid - new developments are going in, each has to have electric vehicle charging, and space for pushbikes.
one charging point has a capacity about the equivalent of 7 houses (to get the fast charge) and you may get 4 charge points per 50 houses.
a lot of older houses will not have the capacity to even slow charge a vehicle (7-10 hours) due to the size cables that supply the road or estate - for example the cable that feeds the 16 houses around mine on our estate is the same size as a cable we install to feed 1 house- even a power shower would be pushing it round here.
Added to that a lot of the old power stations are coming to end of life - many more have had their operating lifespan increased. are we building new ones - not yet - and when we start it will take 20 years to get back up to capacity.
in London things are worse, we are having to lay up to 6km of cable to get enough capacity to supply new development, in some cases all the way back to the nearest power grid substation (33,000V).
So all this talk of changing over to electric vehicles is a bit of a moot point unless the charging infrastructure and the supply infrastructure are in place first.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: ChrisF on July 30, 2017, 07:13:14 pm
As I said it ain't going to happen in my lifetime.

And the government are going to be slow in raising their head above the parapet on the issue for as long as they can. Typical short term political thinking.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Delboy1958 on July 31, 2017, 01:26:47 pm
Hi Guys
One thing they don't talk about is the amount of pollution from power stations to make the electricity
to charge these clean cars :embarrassed:

Del
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: Tug Fanatic on July 31, 2017, 03:22:29 pm

I have been waiting to see this point raised, I work in the electricity supply industry, and your point is entirely valid - new developments are going in, each has to have electric vehicle charging, and space for pushbikes.
one charging point has a capacity about the equivalent of 7 houses (to get the fast charge) and you may get 4 charge points per 50 houses.
a lot of older houses will not have the capacity to even slow charge a vehicle (7-10 hours) due to the size cables that supply the road or estate - for example the cable that feeds the 16 houses around mine on our estate is the same size as a cable we install to feed 1 house- even a power shower would be pushing it round here.
Added to that a lot of the old power stations are coming to end of life - many more have had their operating lifespan increased. are we building new ones - not yet - and when we start it will take 20 years to get back up to capacity.
in London things are worse, we are having to lay up to 6km of cable to get enough capacity to supply new development, in some cases all the way back to the nearest power grid substation (33,000V).
So all this talk of changing over to electric vehicles is a bit of a moot point unless the charging infrastructure and the supply infrastructure are in place first.


The rallying call is wind turbines but I can't see anything working except a lot of gas powered power stations which are quick to build catalogue items. The big problem is distribution. The smart meter fiasco has not helped as there was a wasted opportunity to have intelligent use of electricity within a household which will not now happen & which has made the problem worse than it needs to be.


I laugh at your 4 charge points per 50 houses. Around here we need 2-4 per house and there is no public transport alternative!


As I said before it is a nice headline but with no real meat behind it.
Title: Re: petrol and diesel car ban
Post by: steamboatmodel on July 31, 2017, 06:22:51 pm

Years back our Provincial Government decided to go "Green" They shut down the few remaining coal generating stations that we had, and signed outrages contracts with wind power companies. they then discovered that in the real world unlike government halls the wind doesn't blow all the time. They then built gas powered generating stations (which pollute more then the coal ones they closed). They have neglected the nuclear power stations that we have and to pay for all this our electricity charges have gone from one of the lowest to one of the highest. they are now bringing in a carbon tax on natural gas.
Regards,
Gerald.