Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: raflaunches on August 23, 2017, 11:55:27 am
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Hi everyone
During my build of the battlecruiser Invincible I've got to a point of researching some of the fittings and machinery onboard her. On the forward superstructure beneath the aft searchlight platform there is a piece of machinery labelled on the plans as an ice machine. This platform is an open structure so this machine would be seen. Problem is I don't know what it looks like and I haven't found any pictures on the internet. Does anyone know what it would look like?
Many thanks. :-))
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(http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/i/spin/image/spin_prod_1259634712??hei=64&wid=64&qlt=50)
{-) {-) :-))
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%% {-)
I knew there would be one!!!
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This is the only one I've ever seen. It was a mechanically driven compressor but I assume that the ship electrical system could be used. The stationary engine is driving the compressor via a drive belt on the opposite side of the machine.
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Interesting...
The rough drawing layout on the plan shows a similar outline but with the upright cylinder on its side, so an idea of an ice machine that could be made to look functional under the platform is starting.
Many thanks :-))
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I wonder what they used it for, as gas vapour refrigeration had been about for a few decades by the time Invincible was commissioned.
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It would be good to see a picture of the drawings but perhaps an early type of air conditioning unit for the command bridge?
Rich
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Or ice for the pink gins ?
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Hi everyone
This is the only plan of the ice machine situated on the forward shelter deck next to the centre funnel.
And I still have no idea what it would have provided ice for either.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/diz02Q/IMG_2110.jpg) (https://ibb.co/diz02Q)
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(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/IC5zaS.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poIC5zaSj) a little earlier vintage, made large blocks of ice fairly quickly..
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Thanks tghsmith :-))
Fantastic image.
I'm still wondering what was the reason for these machines onboard a warship and rather strangely why was it fitted in a rather exposed position on the Invincible when compared to your brilliant picture onboard the Brooklyn? Seems extreme to have it just for drinks but wouldn't put it past the RN! {-)
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Could be used for medical purposes but where is the sick bay in comparision?
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(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/IUfGPC.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnIUfGPCj) thinking that power for refrigeration may have been limited, some of my drawings show coolers and veg. lockers in large numbers..
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Now looks like the layout on the plans. Many thanks for the picture once again. :-))
Completely forgot about refrigerated items or lack of fridges onboard this era of ship. Makes sense, just seems a rather precarious place to put the machine!
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freon wasn't used for refrigeration until the 1930's,, before then it was ammonia or methyl chloride(both nasty stuff),, maybe the thought of an open central area was for safety in case of a leak or damage..
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An early form of health and safety!
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As an off the wall thought, I wonder if the ice was used to cool air for P & Q magazines as the steam pipes from the forward boilers had to run through/very close to them but as its in an exposed position it can't be a critical element - puzzling indeed!
Cheers
Geoff
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Also in tropical climates there would be a need for the crew to be kept cool from aircon etc, a basic machine can work without dangerous chemicals in a confined space
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First ships to have air con were the Tribals
In the early 60's.
Ned
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Until the 1930's fridges used propane or ammonia as the refrigerant fluid, which would be a sigificant hazard in the case of battle damage.
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Nick, I should imagine that the ice was used for the meat store etc , on the same principle of the old ice rooms you find in the old big houses, they carried huge amounts of fresh meat and it had to be stored cool.
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now you have me looking closer at my plans,,, my 1890's USS Minneapolis show the ice machine just behind the armored bridge in an area that looks to be well vented..
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/GozPgg.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnGozPggj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/PEsTfJ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmPEsTfJj)
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USS?
That'll be the Ice-cream maker :D
Ned
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Until the 1930's fridges used propane or ammonia as the refrigerant fluid, which would be a sigificant hazard in the case of battle damage.
A friend of mine worked on emergency relief projects and said that in one place they were using kerosene fridges. These still require ammonia as the refrigerant. The mechanism is, as below. When one considers the hazards posed by the magazine, the ammonia water solution is probably a much lower hazard. Kero also has a lower flashpoint than propane.
Heat is applied to the ammonia and water solution in the generator. (The heat comes from burning gas, propane or [/size]kerosene[/color][/size].) As the mixture reaches the boiling point of ammonia, it flows into the separator. Ammonia gas flows upward into the condenser, dissipates heat and converts back to a liquid.[/color]
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Curiously in Clydbank Battlecrusiers there is an internal shot of Inflexible showing an aircon machine for the forward cabins and A magazine - new to me as I've never seen mention of such arrangements before. I've seen reference to "cooling" arrangements but apparently the plans just show an air gap and cooling fans to circulate air.
Cheers
Geoff
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I would say it was for the Officers G & T {-)
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If anyone has a copy of Janes Fighting Ships 1914 (ISBN 7153 4377 7) I found within, a couple of companies supplying refrigeration plant for ships.
One 'J & E. Hall, Ltd stated they were 'Makers of special refrigerating machinery for cooling ammunition rooms, provision storage and making ice etc on Battleships, Cruisers and Destroyers.' As supplied to British and foreign navies.'
J & E Halll 10a St. Swithin's lane, London EC and Dartford kent. Page XLIII
Interestingly (to truck geeks like me) they also manufactured Hallford motor vehicles
Seagers Ltd Dartford England also made the same sort of equipment. Page XCVI
I have some photos with these adverts and will try and scan them.
Previous ideas and observations made by fellow members were spot on. The addresses may help you google more references Nick.