Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: hammer on November 02, 2017, 11:48:44 am
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I started to build a model of Totnes Castle in 2013. But got side tracked by other projects. I already have 2 paddle steamers 5ft & 6ft, I need a smaller model for the clubs new pond so 10mm = 1ft will be a boat of 850mm. If my method of building has been seen you will know I don't use conventional plans, I draw on the building board & the model, as I go along.
Scraped off all the spots of glue & painted out the marks left on the bench (slipway) from Irene. Marked in the positions of the frames all ready to start.
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This is going to be interesting O0
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Definitely interesting this one :-))
Colin
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It will be interesting for me as well. Sketched out the frames paddler lines are all similar, having built 2 its a good guesstimate. Not too fussy as will be cut from foam, to build an armature. The hull built on this not decided yet tin plate, wood fiberglassed or just fiberglass. Probable not the latter.
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Ahah.....we see pictures on this WEB Forum O0
We also see that the Totnes had two accommodation/seating areas......the aft area is depicted with lavish diamond studded lounges, the fwd area also appears to have a head on the stdb side
Was this vessel subject to the British Class system as used in all forms of transportation?...you know 1st Class down to Steerage Class :o
So from this...was the fwd accommodation with the head 1st Class? {-)
The paddle shaft axis indicates the wheels will be rather large......
As always .....looking forward to your build
Derek
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Thank you Derek, we can always really on you to be watching. Yes probably a class system in 1894 No one noticed at the bottom of the plans. I got the title wrong not 1884 sorry. On the section TDBWL indicates the correct depth of hull, I have increased depth for stability, as the steam plant will be heavy for this size model. As for the wheels they only have floats just in the water. Not visible as there is a elevation not shown here.
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The original idea was for a larger model. I made an engine & boiler, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PsbzyY5hjQ the engine running. Like most engines it runs better one way, sods law its better in revers. Photo of both below. Unfortunately the boiler will not fit in the scale engine room. I will have to make a new boiler measuring 4.5+4.5. I have kept engine room to scale as I hope to fit out the saloons. We shall see, Cost of 4.5 copper tube may decide the issue.
Marked out the sections on 2" thick poly foam insulation. I will need 2 of each as its 85.5mm between sections, keeping silver backing on one side only. All the wooden parts framed up. Found bearings & a selection of gears in the scrap box. If you have seen my build you will know no work weekends. Derek the other elevation not shown before. From this you will see the wheels are not over large.
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Looks like Totnes will be on the back burner again. I almost fell down the cellar steps, I managed to save myself. But I dropped my paddle steamer Glen Usk. At 16 years old she could have done with a refit. Now its almost a rebuild. Along with most off the fittings on deck breaking away. The sponson stove in the hull, and some of the timber strips on the boiler slid forward.
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Goodness...the ship can go in for a refit :-)).....just as well as the worker is OK O0.......keep us posted RGY........
Shall we all chip in a few Bob & bring over a case of Cider for medical assistance? {-)
Your friend..... Derek
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Oh my dog, that sucks {:-{
But good thing you are OK, though.
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I can reinsure you Derek I had not had any zider on Sunday. I also fell at the club landing stage as well landed on my wallet so no damage. Having returned to the shop things don't look so bad today. I have managed to get Glen Usk on the slipway beside Totnes Castle. So work can continue in tandem. Started cutting & fixing the foam. I remove all the silver backing except for the actual side in the number section position. I will the sand down to this. The centre cut out just to make it essayer to remove completely after the hull is finished.
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Glen Usk hull 7 boiler sorted, just a bit of paint & the deck fittings remain.
T.C. hull ready for shaping. Experimented with melting solder on a piece of tin, the foam didn't catch fire or melt. So I am making the hull from tin plate, I hope.
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No plat today. Just found the big soldering iron, which I will use instead of the burner. Turned the model over, just have to knock off the lumps till I can see the silver backing.
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Cut off most of the excess foam with a knife. Then into the garden, standing up wind, removed the rest with a blacksmith's rasp. total time about 5 minuets. Started on the deck, making my own ply, consisting of 1/16" balsa with hard wood veneer on the bottom & deck planks on the top.
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Ply for the deck veneer on both sides now. I am hoping this will set the shear on the model without fixing. It will be removable as with steam plenty of room & quick access is required.
The marks on the foam are the run of the plates. I don't know if I will be able to complete the hull in tin plate. but that's the plan at the moment.
Derek I know you are watching, the bagatelle on the bench is for grand kids Christmas.
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Yes of course I always enjoy watching your builds RGY ......not sure what a bagatelle is ??...we don't use the name in Australia
Now a Tin Plate hull %%.....this will be amazing....I have attempted a few brass shim constructions [water tanks & the like] & found that very difficult to complete with soft solder without 10BA screws holding the joints together during the soldering process
Some 50+ years ago in Metal Work at High School...we folded tinplate, tinned the adjoining edges, & sweated joints and all with Plumbers 1lb copper soldering irons heated with Coal Gas ring burners
[imagine the H&S pickers looking at that these days].....[just show them a Video.....what great training >:-o ]
So I await....we can all learn something new every day...............
Derek
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Derek, Perhaps you would call it a pin ball game. Although there are no lights or bells. As for the tin plate I will be learning also. I will show if it all goes horribly wrong.
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Bagatelle, as you can see, made for a table top, much smaller than a true pin ball machine and predates them by decades..
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Thanks Brian for educating the colonials. Drawn the plans on the sub deck, no problems there. Started the plating always work from the stern, unfortunately the most difficult part. But if I can manage here should be no problems with the rest. Cleaned off the tin with brake cleaner, before & after shown.
Work will be delayed a little as I have my nurses uniform on again. My wife has just had her 5th opp in 4 years, if I can look after her half as god as she looks after me I will be doing ok.
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Freudian slip with God? :embarrassed:
I'm waiting to see how well this plating goes - I'm expecting great things from which I can learn ;)
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She is Brian. The patient slept most of yesterday, so managed a little play.
Cut and joined 3 plates, beet to shape on the padding on my stool. Cleaned the edges with sand paper & steel wool. Tinned where they join, big soldering iron is ideal. Seeing as I may have success I will now fit edging around the top to strengthen the edge of the tin.
The reason for tin plate, I have a plan of the Duchess of Fife specifying this method. I was afraid to try before now.
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Is this a bag of those plastic tipped Drawing Pins?....so just thinking O0....tin the adjoining edges of the tin strips. lay one over the other at the correct spacing or alignment...drill two 1.5 mm diameter holes toward the ends of the overlap.... <*< push one of those plastic tipped pins into each hole...
The pins will be partially supported by the foam..........
Place your left thumb and left forefinger pressing gently on the pinheads, sweat the strips together with the iron in your right hand
Remove the pins...& spot solder over the holes
Don't you came back & tell me you are left handed %%
Derek
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Almost what I have in mind Derek. I will be using pins but not fancy ones as I only have 2. I will be sorting out some others from the rubbish shown. A small spot or two of polyurethane glue holding the plate after the pins are removed. Soften the solder & push together with a stick. I will be starting again with the garboard strake, an inner. The pair have been cut & taken almost half a can. Six a side plus the keel plate, so will be cutting two more cans. Can use the wife's tin opener now I'm in charge. Last time used a hammer & chisel. I have removed the original plates shown as they will be outer plates later. I will get a complete line ready, then solder all at once. (I HOPE). Not my plate drawing.
Another experiment for me anyway. The deck planks need to bee about 3/16th wide to be scale. I had to paint the sundeck railings black. I painted three strips of offcuts a clamped them, paint stuck them. After sanding, another problem solved.
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Ahah %)...a hull plate expansion Drawing......a lost art........in years to come no one will remember how these were created in the upstairs Lofting Room.......all true & full size
A mate did his Apprenticeship as a Shipwright at the Whyalla Ship Yards in South Australia [a division of Australian Iron & Steel or later BHP] & the bulk of his time was in the Loft
Some 30 years ago, this bloke taught me how to project and make underwater lines from just a few bare profiles.......it's like magic :-X
Navi-CAD software can perform the same result.......but it's just punching numbers without understanding the actual process
Would you like me to post over a packet of plastic headed pins? {-)
Derek
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Derek, as generous as ever, I could buy some cheaper than the cost of the post. So thanks I will manage with my rubbish. I will be avoiding leaving pin in when soldering as for sure as eggs is eggs, I would solder them to the plates.
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I've never been able to 'imagine' how the hull plate plan works in real life, as usual I'm probably going about it all wrong :embarrassed: Hammer forget the tin opener, hammer and chisel, tinsnips or whatever. Use a good pair of sharp scissors! They do a far cleaner edge and neater finish than any of the others. I used my wife's dress making scissor ( to me they were just scissors left lying in the craft room :embarrassed: ) Of course they did a fantastic job of cutting up tin cans for what I was doing, but it meant I had to shell out for new scissors {-)
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So its a new tin opener or new scissors then.
Taken a rest from tinning. Cut strips off a 6+7/8 board & stuck them back together. I found the paint stuck the narrow strips ok. But to be on the safe side I mixed acrylic black paint into P.V.A. glue. Monday slice them down 1/16".
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Are you using printers' litho plate for the 'tin'?
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Thanks for the reply Steve. I have used litho plate on model aircraft in the past. If I remember, I don't think it can be soldered, I may be wrong. With modern print methods its difficult to get free now. In the photo of the garboard strakes on the armature you will see the fence preserver tins I am using.
Over the weekend I had been thinking maybe it would be easer to epoxy the plates together. Having almost finished the 2 bottom strakes I will continue soldering. Finding it easer with each plate, as I learn, little tricks. Cleaning the plates with a sanding drum (dermal), keep the plate flat on the bench. Otherwise the plate will cruel up and destroy the sand paper. Don't put to much solder on the iron, or I get lumps of solder as it runs down. I am now holding the plates in place with masking tape. That is working well.
The deck planking has been cut down to 3/32" thick, now have plenty at the right scale. Marking the nails & joints in pen I am very pleased.
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Used a brass rod at the bow nailed to the wooden keelson. Which will stay in the hull, along with the stem, stern post, bulkheads, and the cover board. Soldered a tube to the stern post to take the rudder stock. Finished the garboard strakes and the keel. Decided not to follow full size practice, with alternate inner and outer strakes. Will be laying them like a clinker build. Two reasons first will make it easier, second looking down at the model any wide joint will not show as much. No more post on plating, unless there are an questions. I may start on the boiler it will be square and made from water pipe. That should cause some comments if any steam men are watching.
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Well no steam men watching, or they all know to how build a square boiler. Or is every one to shy to ask.
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I guess you will know what you're doing ;)
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Sometimes I know what I am doing but not often. I am pushing the boundaries with this one. Not the boiler but the plating. The square boiler superseded now. But the plan was to build a water tube boiler fitted in a square firebox. Similar to that below just a better tube arrangement. This can be seen steaming on Youtube, Search, Duke of Devonshire engine. The problem was not a lot of water so required a pump. At the time I was my first own design. I thought it didn't supply enough steam for the engine, stopping after 10 minutes run. I didn't know at the time less steam would be used under load. So would have worked but by that time I have made a convectional boiler. The reason for this change of plan, I managed to find an offcut of 103mm copper tube on Ebay. At £9.99 free postage only 200cm long plenty. The cheapest found before for 300cm £54 plus p&p. that but me off the original plan. So back to the original 100mm + 103mm normal fire tube boiler. The only snag will need to make the hull 15mm deeper, no problem just extend the plating that much when I get to the top.
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Found a photo of the water tube boiler in its jacket.
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I said on post until the plating finished. Well finished one side, just three more on the other. Drilling the portholes with a cone drill. Holding with grips don't want to cut my fingers. Sized to fit brass tube, (chromed will skim off) That will be the surrounds, fitted after finished painting the hull.
My friend Derek mentioned earlier, the class distinction forward & aft. With a toilet in the forward saloon on the starboard side. Looking at the portholes (green Arrow) there must be one on the port side also, must be ladies & gents. I have come to the conclusion this must be the bar. Definitely second class.
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Soldering almost finished. I have used two different melting point solders, I found that very useful. Tip don't keep you legs under the solder point, OW!
The foam mould removed along with the wooden frame. Will be replacing the frame around the deck level, and the two bulkheads each side of the engine room. Bulkheads will be recut 15mm deeper, to allow for the extra depth to accommodate the different boiler. This will be cut to the mark, the stick is on the shaft line. keeping the shorter section. Need to clean up the outside and stop the leaks, Yes there are a few, but then to few to mention.
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Thanks for sharing this, very interesting way of making a hull!
Hama
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Will there be insulation under the firebox? Just thinking the heat may desolder your joints
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Yes, as always I am watching %) %) %)...
But understand a coat of spray primer [to undo the razeldazel] must wait until a technical water tightness of these soldered joints can proceed :kiss:
By the time these electronic images get to OZ ....the hull looks like something from a pointy ended steel fruit box {-)........
The location of the Head .....by the Fwd Section is of no consequence :o ....if 2nd Class passenger's had access to the Bar well good luck to them :-))
I do await your daily posts....it is also little point me responding on another WEB site....
Derek
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Its very nice to get a reply post thanks. A very good point Brian. I was only going to rely on the wooden strips around the boiler. Of course once in the water no problem, but getting steam up it could be disaster. I will now use a piece of soldering mat under the boiler. Now the photo shows how tight a fit the boiler is, luckily the boiler room has a razed centre section.
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Sorry about that copy cat R.G.Y. I can't stop him Derek. {-)
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That's all for a will, as its a good time to stop, with the hull complete. Derek I won't be getting rid of the razzle-dazzle for a long time yet, remember the duke, 115232 views & rising.
I have managed to repair my milling machine, taken two months, wires knotted all over the place. Now my lathe has stopped, going to be buzzy.
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So much to do so little time. Repaired both my mill & lathe. So I will be concentrating on my traction engine. Plus repairs to my trawler, pilot cutter and a better rudder on Irene. (see Irene post) On top of all that I am not happy with the hull for Totnes Castle. To heavy & altered the shape to fit boiler, will be scraped start again one day.
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Welcome to 2018 my friend........trust you and yours will find the new year safe & happy :-))....naturally will be following on with each of your thread builds..............Derek
PS....what was wrong with the lathe?......... <*<
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Thank you Derek. The words are resipucated to you.
NexT
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That's a shame, and a big call to stop the build but I know how it feels when you think something just isn't right.
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Sorry Derek you asked what was wrong with the lathe. I have not been up to much the last 3 weeks breathing difficult but O.K. now. Well both my mill & lathe are of Chinese origin, although the P.C. boards are from the U.S.A. Tracking the fault can be a problem as the wires are just a rats nest, & no diagram was supplied. Following from the supply found it quickly on the lathe in the voltage conversion board. A loose connection sorted. Good as this board cost about £90, in U.K.
The mill had a dagram, nothing like the rats nest. Found the fault in the speed control board this time. Un-repairable new
board. £150 in U.K. with p&p plus tax. You now how much I hate spending money.
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Decided to have another go at this one. I was very disappointed when I had finished the tin plate. Not very even & lots of spots & runs of solder. Started to sand these off. would have taken for ever. So gave up, then I remembered seeing my father wipe a lead joint. That was when water pipes where lead. I covered a cloth in coking fat, as I never had any tallow. Using small pencil torch, wiped it clean in ten minuets. Filled the hollows, also removed the top strake in the section that's straight replacing with ply. That saved top weight. Now I am happy.
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Its looking ok in that photo mate, main thing is you have salvaged it! You'r in Devon and can't get tallow with all those sheep!
Talking of which, a couple years ago my brother was driving a truck in west yorkshire, came to a right hand bend which he knew was sharp so slowed right down. Then lost all steering and truck went straight on through a ditch and into a field. He had to be cut from the cab, unfortunately he had on the back a pump for emptying porta toilets on building sites - the fire brigade loved him for that one {-)
Anyway investigation showed, that close to the bend was a factory that processed wool and sheep hide, extracting the tallow from it, the tallow being a waste product was poured into open skips. The skip lorry came along, picked it up and it being open topped, sloshed all over the road at the corner. Both companies were done by the H&S executive.
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fitted the bulkheads each end of engine room. finding the shape with card & compass. pictures self explanatory.
glued the planks ( shown made above) onto the sub deck. The timber around inside the hull will be the scuppers. the sub deck fits inside & the planks on top, leaving 3/8th" exposed. The home made gauge marking this.
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Finished the deck marked 7 varnished, will be put to one side now. Starting on the engineering next, well sort of? The bearing housing from wood, but as this is a prototype change of plan. Making them as small as I can still a tight fit in side the wheel. So will be letting them into the side of the hull, with a brass plate over. Plate bolted from inside that is the plan. every thing has to removable.
Loaded the 103mm tube in the lathe, as you can see pushing it to the limit. I have fitted an computer fan on the motor, rotating slow, the motor fan is not strong. I burnt 2 motors before this mod. I may just score it finish with a hack saw. The big decision place to cut.
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Cor, you don't throw anything away do you. I remember those compasses from primary school 57 years ago! :embarrassed: I like the novel approach to holding the cylinder in the lathe, I think I would be wary about trying to turn that at any speed on such a small lathe. I think you are right to do it with a hacksaw, although I would turn the lathe head by hand and just lightly score it with the tool to make sure the cut was plumb. Leave it in the lathe to use the hacksaw, just move the toolpost way down the bed for clearance - I mean cut by hand with no power applied! I have seen (and been guilty of) turning on the power and holding the hacksaw against the workpiece, albeit mine was small diameter rod not tube.
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Your right Brian, scoring won,t be a problem it’s when it breaks through. That would stall it.
Yes I never throw any thing away.
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New arrangement of bearings. Drilled hole with brace & bit ( brutal ) did the job though. The outer bearing bedded in silicone, Stainless plate & shaft fixed temporary wile silicon sets. Fixing perfect alignment. The inner bearing clear of plate & inner hull. The screws in the plate will be replaced with studs through to the inside. Secured with nuts so it all can be removed if necessary.
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Tube for boiler cut, mostly with hack saw then cleaned up in lathe. The big dot the funnel, small dot safety valve positions.
Made studs & nuts 5BA. brazed to plate. What next?
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Pictured the fire tube mock up. I will try the burner (one off another boiler) to see if the flame stays alight. As the straight section is shorter than I have had before. this will be my 7th boiler. Another trouble I have had keeping the flame in the funnel. This was with a 22mm fire tube, needed a number 3 gas jet for this. but unobtainable. Never had trouble with 28mm & number 5 jet.
This might upset a few so what. The boiler rules H & S gone mad. For a rail engine boiler up around 100psi hauling passengers yes agreed. But for a small boiler at 25psi NO. Also if it runs dry, with the burners used the silver solder will never melt. Try making a boiler with a normal gas torch imposable, even a MAPP burner needs the boiler insulated. What happened to the 3 bar litre rule. I just believe home made boilers are not wanted any more.
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I thought that little rant would have got a response.
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I have no idea what you're doing, or talking about mostly, so just curiously and silently watching in awe :embarrassed:
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I thought that little rant would have got a response.
I understand your frustration. Its always seemed overkill to test model size boilers the same as full size boilers and of course with the kind of costs involved to have it tested. One of the reasons why I have never bothered with live steam, even though I have the skills to build one.
I've often wondered would it be worth doing it and sailing it on open water when there are no other boaters around? Nobody to ask questions and only you to see any calamity and ship sinking should it go wrong.
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Don't worry Tafel I don't know ether.
Brian although I have a friend who tests my boilers ( he is a rail man). My sailing club has never asked to see a certificate, & I do have public liability. So no problem. It is just strange the Power Boat Ass osiation, is more stringent than the Engineering Society. Oh dear I have left a space in association!
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Enough of that. Brazed up the fire tube. Two fins on the end by the burner, to compensate for the lack of cross tubes in this area. Cross tubes here will disrupted the burner. The next job silver solder in the cross tubes, cut in photo.
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Cross tubes silver soldered in. Hole in tube drilled (cone drill). The remainder of the tube cut and flattened out for end caps.
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Wow, this looks like the plumbing in our closet ;)
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I fixed the sponsons on some time ago. they are supported by ali strips cut worktop jointers. Need to be strong as that's where paddles are lifted. Picked out a selection of gears from scrap box(never throw anything). These are for the drive between engine & shaft need about 3 to 1 reduction. The spare engine I had is a little bit big, so a new one coming.
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The paddles are a bit of a problem. Original made from angle iron, not available at this scale. Wouldn't be strong enough any way. I have found some old knitting needles, in my rubbish. Not the right shape but very strong. The hub is made in 3 the centre will have a grub screw to hold it all in place. The reduced inner on this will rest on the bearing stopping sideways movement. The 2 hexagonal pieces silver soldered to spokes & soft soldered to hub that's the plan. The wooden discs will be tuned true & used to build the wheel on.
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A repeat photo of the shaft with hubs. The reason the stainless strips of metal, taken from windscreen wiper(never throw anything). These will form the circular parts of the wheel.
Started the end caps for boiler. using a wooden former as that's all I had, no steel big enough. Annealed to flatten the tube, Annealed again start of flange, annealed again now in the citric acid.
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the boiler continues in STEAM R&D under my 7th boiler.
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The boiler now finished so back here. It just fits had to cut 3/16" off each side of the deck surround to get it in plenty of room when in. The engine I intended to use will not fit however. So will be making a smaller version, or a completely new design. depending what metal I have in stock. With the deck in place another tight fit. The safety valve will stay at this angle. But the connector angled, to bring the funnel central & upright with a slight rake aft. If that makes sense.
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As this is being designed as I go a little problem, how to drill holes in the bulkhead near the bottom. A long rod of the right diameter had a flat filed on the end. Filed to the centre at the end tapering to nothing about half an inch long. Drill as flat as possible, from both sides, this gives a elongated hole but dose the job. In the photo the rod is bent wrong as I am not holding the drill.
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First off a plan showing both elevations, I had cut off the external in the original post. This to show the funnel.
Funnel made from an old hospital walking stick. The aluminium at 1/8th thick, so I turned it down to 1/16th, leaving the rings. Fixed to the boiler at vertical with the correct rake astern. The photos don't give that impression. But it is all correct, honest.
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Started on the boiler room roof. Cardboard patterns, with skylight & access hatch drawn in. The tinplate marked out, rivets punched, folded & soldered on the corners.
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Cut the tinplate & scored the bends inside. As this represents steel or more likely iron. I have represented rivets. Now the clock wheel method has never worked for me. So my method, a block of wood with a row of self punching panel pins. that is the reason for the photo. pins with conical heads.
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Slow progress I am afraid, other things to do. Have soldered up the engine room roof. Need to fix angle along the bottom to keep it straight. Found brass angle in my stock, but it will have to be milled smaller & thinner. Then the safety valve extension.
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Change of plan, bent up tin plate angle to strengthen the sides on boiler room roof. Milling the brass would be wasteful I don't like waste. Another thing I disliked was the safety valve not being upright. So made a angle fitting, turned the male end in normal manner & parted off. Set in pillar drill at the required angle drilled down to meet the hole from other end. Started tap wile still in drill (by hand) then completed with wrench. Threaded a bar to fit & attached fitting in lathe, turned so the safety valve fitted flat.
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Boiler complete just the pipe work to do when the engine installed. No clack feed as will remove safety valve to fill, & turn the boat over to empty, although there is a valve on the sight glass. Sorry about the shadow across the makers plate, which is level although doesn't look like it in photo.
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I'll be the first one to stand up and say I know nothing about steam. However I do question the method of filling Hammer. What happens if you try to remove the safety valve to fill the boiler and there is still pressure inside? I know when I undo the drain screw on my air compressor, the outrush of air from the tank blows crud and water droplets out on to my hand. The thought of similar happening with boiling water left in the boiler doesn't bear thinking about.
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Always leave the steam valve open, to empty the separator tank. Then have to wait for the safety valve to cool befor it can be removed. If someone loosened the valve wile under pressure, steam would start to escape slightly, as soon as the rubber washer unseated. Giving a warning. Max 25psi. Good to hear from you Brian.
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Sketched out the engine, on a scrap of paper. the main frame 1"+ 1/8" two of joined by two 3/8" square. The square drilled through the centres (steam passages). Cylinders 5/8 hexagon, turned off centre to leave one flat. Also 1/8" left at each end to take six 10 BM studs for the end caps. The throttle - reverse mounted upright above to one side. Size over all 3"+ 3" The drawing shows most but questions welcome.
I have altered this from previous engines I have made. Split the standard so I can increase the size of the bearings. This was a weak point before, didn't wear well.
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Started the engine pics later. Also started on paddle wheels, they have been on me mind for some time. I have made wheels of brass & aluminium in the past. Cut from sheet this is a waste & very boreing. (deliberate spelling ) Found the answer in my stores. A roll of something that looks like brass, 3/16 + 1/16th but it is hard & like a spring. It also melts very near to silver solder temperature, So soft solder now. The pics should explain my hope for method. Wooden formers are the key. one for inner ring another for outer. Joining the strip around then drilling holes at the spokes, pin in first hole to stop movement wile drilling rest. So far so good, we will see.
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Always watching from afar RGY :-)) ........[am in Adelaide again for a month]
Phosphor Bronze is commonly reshaped from billet into flat bar by initially hot rolling, then as the thickness reduces by cold rolling to sheet which is then sheared into width [again by the rolling process]
This cold rolling produces the toughness, together with the layered structure removes the shear and substitutes or provides the springiness
With a melting point of ~~905.... to ~~940 degrees C fits your melting experiment and the characteristics you mention
[Spring manufacturers use this material for their feed stock]
Should be a strong structure [with little flex] when complete ....Derek
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Always good to hear from you Derek my friend. Thank you for the information now I know. The first side of the wheel ready for soldering. This inside wheel I will be making flat well almost. The outer will be dished to stop lateral movement. Marking the spokes where they need to bend. ( red marks on board .) Bending in vice & by hand, aligning to pattern.
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Just trying to visuilise RGY....are the jaws on your lathe 3 jaw chuck small enough to grip the OD of the hub as shown?.....if they were it would make clean up of the assumed 1/4" wheel hub bore after soldering so much easier
With the set/offset of pins, I am assuming this will be for the inner hub wheel side closest to the hull allowing for the hull pedestal bearing
Having said this, we have seen both variations on the them with the dished hub outboard shortening the paddleshaft :whistle
Always watching on ;).....Derek
PS....I didn't get to post on May the 6th, however am a little concerned with the boiler burner getting sufficient oxygen
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As always Derek nice to hear from you. Plenty of air holes will be left. Cleaning by hand will be safer.
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May be someone may want to make paddles using this method. If you do & you have a lathe should be no problems. First turn wooden blanks & mark centre & number of spokes required. Rap strip brass around the former cut & join to a tight fit. it is important as this will keep them the same size. Align the drill accurately to the spokes. Drill one & pin it with a short piece of spoke material, so the strip doesn't move wile drilling rest. The centre hub was divided in the lathe.
On assemble three spokes in my case immediately aligned the rings, that is if the holes are right. If not fettling is the order of the day. I soft soldered mine as the structure is inherently strong. Note soldered away from the marks on blanks, to preserve them.
The dishing can be seen on the finished upright wheel. This was achieved by a thick washer under the hub, & clamping the outer ring down on to the former. I did try bending the spokes before fitting. But had trouble as the rings didn't align automatically. Clean up by hand. Only Three more to make.
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Having used spring bronze, (Thanks Derek) I wish now I had used brass & silver soldered the joints. I will have to epoxy the floats in place now. Don't want them to melt the rest.
Can't say I altered the plan because there isn't one. But I dished the inner wheel more than the outer in the end.
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Always more than one way to skin the cat O0...but using epoxy as a composite build sequence sounds a great idea RGY <*<.....will you use wooden floats?.... Derek
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The answer to question Derek, tin plate floats. I believe the original had iron.
I have started on the engine. Made the cylinders with end caps. Drilled & tuned off centre by packing out one jaw on the chuck. I will now mill the port face, ( black mark & arrow.) increasing the width. The idea is to decrease the amount of metal in the engine. Heat up quicker less condensation. I will be posting the rest of engine build in steam r&d, if you want to follow.
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My only comment RGY >>:-( is to please keep all of the engine build here in this thread with the boiler & hull
Must remember, we may be upside down.......but it would help many readers this side of the lower line
BTW...what did you have for lunch at the Pub? :P
Derek
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Ok Derek I will post in both blogs, in steam until engine complete. Although I didn’t post all the boiler build here. As for lunch it was all liquid I am afraid Somerset cider. The best!,
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The floats will be fitted so. the tabs will give the epoxy plenty to grip.
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The wheels are looking good RGY.......it appears that you have introduced a new bush into the wheel hub...would you consider a metric stainless steel tapered pin ..say in the lower 3 > 4 diameter size range as the locking & driving key between the wheel hub & the shaft?......
The ISO Metric 1:100 pin concept appears to make a lot more functional sense over the Imperial 1:96 & the lost or <*< missing drill sizes in between to suit
Derek
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Sorry Derek far to technical for me. If you are referring to the bit sticking out in the centre that is part of the hub. Obvious not shown before it is on the inside. It will rest on the centre of the ball bearing, fixed to the shaft by a grub screw this will stop lateral movement, as the other wheel will be the same obviously. May need a washer or two for adjustment.
I have added wood to the outer edge of the deck, (the scuppers) it projects out from the hull, forming the knuckle. That's what I call the half round strip around the hull, another needed below the sponsons, this one just stuck on. There is a raised section over the rudder arm, with a grating. Small gratings can be a problem, here is a solution, not my idea but a good one. A plastic hit & miss air vent, D.I.Y. store. I cut it with a band saw, as the blade cools down, were a gig saw melts it to back again.
Milled the frames from square bar for the engine. Drilled the pivot hole & hole to take the bearing. Second photo shows the layout. The gearing is lower than me previous models at 5.7 to 1. I have used 3.5 to 1 before. We will see.
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Posted as requested Derek. I have remade the standard, sadly distorted when silver soldering together got it to hot. Second attempt soldered the bar then machined it after. Stainless pivot bar fitted will cut out inner section later. Large hole for removable crank bearing. Just the exit holes to the ports to drill when the crank it finished & blank off the 4 ports at entry end.
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End caps fitted to cylinders. Drilled & tap 10BA. Marked the centre for pivot hole. Not much time in shop, at the pool with grand kids.
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Great progress on a nice ship! Will be watching!
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A little more done on the engine. Steam ports & pivot holes drilled in cylinders. Oil light bronze bearing ready to fixed. Piston rods ready I will be silver soldering piston blanks in place. Then with the rod in chuck turn the blanks to fit. Chrome crank shaft, pin & web in the picture ready for cutting. The strip of ali with four holes will mark the steam ports in the frame. when the crank is fitted. The small gears fit between the bearing & crank web. As I said before this will give the chance to change ratios if the low is to low.
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Super glued the blanks for the crank webs together, marked & drilled the holes. Unfortunately came apart braking through large hole. Had to bolt back to finish the shaping. Soldered the gear & pin to the web, used ali stub to centre gear. solder don't stick to aluminium of course.
Marked the steam ports on the frame, using gauge. Will drill later in the mill, a hat pin will find centres.
Bearing pressed into the frame, oil hole drilled in. The final layout of the engine can now be seen. Well half of it.
A lot of fettling & polishing when construction completed.
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'a hat pin will find centres' ................ %)
As this engine is being built with those Christian Imperial dimensions........just how do you compensate for Hat Pins nowadays being these Heathen Metric diameters?
Or do you have a special conversion table of Christian to Heathen dimensions ? {-)
Derek
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Simples.
Hat pins are a tad larger diameter than dressmaking pins, but not as large a diameter as drawing/board/thumb pins O0
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It doesn’t matter I am a good guesser. All will be revealed. Ye of little fath.
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Hat pins used as a wiggler (edge or centre finder). Fix in chuck, held just strong enough to stop it falling out. Start the drill or mill,gently hold a pen or pencil against the pin moving it until it runs true. Stop the machine. With a magnifying glass but the mark or edge to the point. In this case but drill in chuck drill hole. Cheep and cheerful as usual.
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Wheels finished.
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Those paddle wheels are a work of art. I found the narrative interesting to read and now know lots more about the benefits of cold rolled bronze. It might make good RC lorry springs %)
Do you use an electric iron to soft solder or a blow torch? If the former (and possibly the latter) covering the areas already soldered with wet rag or tissue will act as a heat sink thus saving your work from collapsing every time. Using aluminium like you did was useful to learn as well. Thanks Hammer :-))
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I used a blow torch on the wheels. Not much bigger than a pencil. Small flame but very hot. Will take a photo of it when in shop. Not to day as to full of cider. Somerset cider!!
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Pistons & rods. I had to revert to threading the rods into the pistons. Had a disaster with silver soldering them. Holding rod in the lathe turning the piston true to the rod. I had upset the temper, both rods snapped. I had no stainless of that size left. Had to turn down larger diameter. I had a home made traveling steady, so very easy. All other photos taken to day lost in computer somewhere. Take more tomorrow.
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I have found pic of blow touch. Computer putting photos at random, I have to find them, & I have a lot of folders.
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Glad that Sommerset Scrumpy is still tasting good :P......we appear to have the availability of similar gas flame equipment here in OZ
I use the pencil flame for small work, however find the medium sized black torch the pick of the bunch with the rapid action adjustable and stable flame
Derek
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Derek you showed me your so see mine. Know all about the pencil torch. The blue is propane butane mix & the yellow mapp gas. I use he blue most cheaper than mapp. The mapp mostly used on boiler making. If I need anything hotter I get my son to bring oxy-gas unit.
Drilled the gland nuts through a solid core down the cylinder. Done for better accurse I hope. Hold the nut other wise it will undo.
The engine parts made, will put it back in the mill to remove excess metal on the frame. then polish it & lap the port faces. The cranks set at 90 degree for smother running, 4 strokes per rev. 180 degree 2 strokes per rev may deliver more power.
It is shown at the angle it will be installed in the boat. Making a wooden frame to hold it. The regulator-reverser will be mounted remotely. Or it may not who knows. Servo control mounted under stair in forward saloon. Yes as I said at the start the saloons will be fitted toilets and all.
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Fitted a hub to the shaft gear. Notice I am using counter sunk slotted screws. This is because I bought the by mistake at a show. So they will be used. Should have worn my glasses. A rough mock up of the engine room. The engine will not be a such a steep angle. But I do have to find room for a separator, under or forward of the engine. It will have to be a special shape.
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Made a bracket for the bottom of engine. The two holding screws block the holes drilled for the lower ports, the other two will have studs. The bracket at the other end will be fitted by trial & error. I had a fright thought the shaft gear was going through the deck. but as seen just got away with it. Fitted the pipes towards the regulator - reverser. Those 10BA screw head look big in the photo! I will have to cut and fit bends as they foul the gas tank as they are. No one has asked how the cylinders will be kept against the frame. Not even my friend from OZ? I have several plans will see which is best, soon.
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Some times I am stupid. No need for extra bends on the pipes. All I needed to do was turn the engine over putting the pipes on the other side. Clear of every thing. I have threaded studs in the passage holes drilled from the side & end to form the steam ways. Fixed with metal-epoxy, trim when set. Also started the bed.
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Started the separator tank. Well cut a tube & a space it will just fit, I hope. If not I have a smaller gas tank, in another boat, but like to keep it there. The lenses of my ipad has distorted the paddle wheel honest.
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A rest from engineering today. Companionway & skylights. I took a strip of clear plastic, this cam off packaging of some sort. Strips of wood stuck on with contact adhesive. (evo stick) Scored the corners bent around fitted in place. It fits so will remove & paint wood white. Then stick hard wood strips on the out side.
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Keyed one web & gear to the shaft. Thought I would drill into the joint but the drill kept drifting off the chrome. So drilled as close as I could each side. Then diamond file to make it into a slot. cut a wedge & hammered it in. Probably fix other side with epoxy on final assemble. As there will be no pressure on this side unless I use the higher gear then will see what's what.
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Looking really good, love your craftsmanship!
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I don't have a rotary table for the mill. So had to improvise cutting the curve in the regulator - reverser. I do have a vice that swivels. With a pointer in the chuck & a brass bar between the jaws I found the centre of vice pivot. Then the work was super glued to the bar, to the centre. Moving the bed forward the required distance. the job was easy.
The 2 parts of regulator b parted off 1" brass rod. Learnt today, fix card around rod between tool and steady, this stopped the chips jamming the steady.
Drilled the back plate & silver soldered the tubes in. Had to drill back down one where the solder got in. Even with carbon on the tube & mean with the solder.
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Removed more metal from the engine frame. ran a bull nose cutter along the joint of the two original brass squares. The joint can't be seen now. I have lapped the port faces to the cylinders. Given the rest a good polish.
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Engine almost complete. Just the springs & fittings for holding the faces together. On the shaft can be seen the spacers that rest against the bearings in the hull keeping the wheels & gear in place. The flats on the shaft to stop grub screws tuning are all inline. I can see the gear is correct line up the wheel will also be right.
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Looking super RGY :-)) ......
is there a method of maintaining engagement between the engine output shaft gear & the paddle shaft gear....or just the alignment & tightening of the engine base frame?
Derek
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Just the righty of the hull, and the position of the base plate. It is the method I have always used and it works. Good to hear from you Derek, and to know you are watching.
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Your engine is lovely! I could never get on with pencil torches and assume there are more expensive types that don't fail after the first fill?
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Rigidity of the hull that should be Derek.
As for pencil torches, mine are cheep, any one who knows me would know that. Getting the gas flow right is the secret. Turn it on by your & ear listen, you can hear when it is right. Move it away & light. Sometimes have to turn it in & out, on & off to get it right.
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Here is the adjustable frame to keep cylinders against port faces. The rod slides in & out of tube to tension the spring. Still in a rough state rushing to get it together for photo. Fettling & polish tomorrow.
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Looking good. Can't wait to see this thing in action!
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May be this will wet your apatite Carl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PsbzyY5hjQ
One I made earlier. Slow running without a fly wheel. Even down to 5 psi. I hope this one will be nearly as good.
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Continuing with the separator. For anyone who is not familiar with a separator. The feed tube goes in to the top about 3/8" & the exit tube about a 1/4". So the oil & water can not turn quick enough & falls to the bottom. The empty tube touches the bottom & is normally shut off. When opened & exit shut off, steam will empty contents. Of course I still have the bottom to braze on.
The photo on window board, also shows my granddaughters steam engine, made for me. She works as a welder, specialising in stainless steel. Proud granddad.
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With a Son in the welding business.....and a Grand Daughter in the welding business....you should get them into Professional boiler making for the model industry
[From memory, there is a British Steam Model supply Company that advertises nationally and attends the string of Model Shows, and their registered Boilermaker is a Red headed young Lady :kiss: ]
You must understandably be that Proud old Grand Dad O0
Derek
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Gday Derek. Your memory is a bit like mine. Son is refrigeration engineer, & my silver solder supplier. It is the great grand daughter who has red hair, only 2 years old, she is in to demolition.
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Separator completed. Engine room layout. A very tight fit, will be challenging to operate. The servo for regulator control will be under the forward saloon stairs. There is a bolt into the regulator through the baulkhead. Silicone pipe joining the exhaust copper, exiting up what on original, was the safety valve exit. Normal model practice is for exhaust inside the funnel. I have found this can but the flame out, when excess water runs down into fire tube. True steam out the funnel looks good but only shows on cold days. The copper steam feed pipes need connections made, & lagged. The brass circle will be the oiler. Gas pipe to make. When that is finished it will be test time on the bench. Sh*t or bust😱😱
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I have tried to run the engine on air, but failed. I soon found the problem. I had designed the ports to be in from the end of the cylinder, to give better cover. I knew I would need a slot cut in the cylinder wall, to get steam past the piston. I had completely forgotten to do this. The photo shows the slot cut in this end of cylinder now. The photo is a close up showing all the scratches. The rough looking wall of cylinder are not that bad. they are a good thing as they will hold oil preventing wear. Well thats the theory.
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Morning RGY...
I think this is the first time we have seen the hull in such a view as understanding her bulk....without a plan could it be approximately 0.8 as a block co-efficient? which is high value :D
She will need certainly need some ballast to bring her down to her lines......have you made any bath trials for a displacement?
Shall we start a guessing competition?.....if so, my 1st best guess is.....~~~12kg ;) displacement
Derek.............
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Didn't Hammer mention earlier on that he had to increase the depth of the hull to locate everything? I'm sure it was mentioned some place, that is why the hull looks too deep in this photo, but on the water will not be noticable.
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Yes Brian I did give an explanation. But every thing is up for change until it’s done. Right as usual Derek. It is deep for a paddler. However a cargo ship would have a depth like this. I did start with a 1.5ins extra depth. Then I found if half an inch more I could squeeze in the 4ins boiler with out increasing the scale, as a 5 & 6ft I already have. Paddlers that is. I also intend to complete the fit out of the saloons, there will be room beneth for the control gear. That’s why is important where the WC is going. Weight one c.w.t. Is my guess. Now I am worried the engine won,t be strong enough.
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When we were at primary school you know half penny bits & Bakers tokens etc.... O0 & ....a C.W.T was 112 pounds ...........that's a lot of displacement for the paddler I see on the bench................. ok2.... Derek
[112 Pounds = 50.802345 Kilograms (rounded to 8 digits) {-) ]....certainly makes my guess of 12 kg look a little lean.........
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Still on oz- lbs- cwt & ton. Bushalls & pecks. Don’t worry will do a test for you. Did one to see any leaks only. Trouble is water is short here as it has not rained & it’s so hot. Almost like OZ !
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My maths says 1 kilo. That’s my guess. Maths not my strong point. But nearer than 12 I hope.
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1kilo?
Ned
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Have a guess Ned ? ?
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Looking at her big belly,
I would hazard a guess
at the same weight as my
working Lakeland terrier
who's fighting weight is
6.9 Kilos just over a stone
to us 40's children.
Ned
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Ned takes the prize as nearest estimate. The grand kids came to stay, had a bath. So I took the opportunity to do a float test. Total weight down to water line.******* 5 kilo******* This includes 1 kilo lead ballast. Not that fat after all. So I am claiming second for getting the ballast right, which is what I was referring to of course.
The four profiles, included on the wall top Glen Usk only 1.5 ins draft.(true scale I didn't know better). I had to resort to a lead rudder hanging down half way between bow & paddles, 6"+ 2". Even with this I still had to mount radio + pressure control batteries on a swigging platform. Flying her like a plane aileron control on second stick. The larger Duke of Devonshire has 2" draft & a 2.5 twin tube boiler keeping CofG lower Still tender but sails with internal ballast. So Totnes Castle at 2.25" draft should be ok after floatation test proved positive.
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Hold on...hold on........with my poor eyesight :o, I have set the magnification on my mini computer set up by 100%
So my 12 kg after all things being reconsidered is really only 6 kg {-)......so I claim second prize ......a close runner behind Ned
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Ok call it a draw, if you must. {-)
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Paddle boxes well on the way just the face to do on both. Note they are bolted to the hull & are removable for maintenance. Yes I do use plastic if I get it cheep.
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Still working on paddle box. waiting for glue to dry. So finished the companion ways. Open & shut. Also the platform for helmsman. P.S. the scupper only had one coat of paint grain must be filled.
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Feed up with wood work, so started on the helm. Making it in brass as it was popular with later paddlers. If an older one like T.C. would have had wood I not know.
Start with a 1" brass rod, turn the end so. Then divide for the spokes, using my home made arrangement. A change wheel fixed to back end of main shaft. In this case 40, for 8 divisions, marked with a pointed tool. I have no cross drill accurate enough to fit tool post, I will remove to mill to drill holes, the back to part off.
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Holes drilled spokes cut & fitted, stuck with super glue. Don't want silver from solder showing. I made a mistake, should have drilled the holes before removing the waste. The drill kept skidding side ways off the centre boss. Should have just cut a grove around the boss, to see how things where going. Any way got over that. Skimming off the boss so the spokes lay level. Then made a cap to fit over them. Note the cocktail stick keeping holes aligned. Drill this out when complete. Marked the handles for length in the lathe. cut & file them before patting off.
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Helm finished & fixed, the completion just simple turning & polishing job. A spigot left on the bottom for hole in deck.
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Awesome craftsmanship *takes deep bow*
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From Switzerland that is a compliment thank you.
On to the railings. I am using striped electrical wire. Free & easy to solder, and different sizes. The only drawback it is a little soft. The hardest job is getting it straight. This is done in vice & between fingers.( fingers not in vice) I also flatten the stanchions where rails cross. The long silver is the flagstaff at the bow, half way along the section being made. Held in a jig to solder, saw cut hold stanchions & nails stretch rails. The tape was to hold rails against stanchions. This was not needed as I pushed them down with a screwdriver as I removed the soldering iron.
Sorry I rotated the photo & the rails are strange. but never mind as soldered & clipped photo coming.
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To get your wire straight, stick it in the vice, wrap the other end around a stick and have somebody apply tension to it. Then strum the wire a few times with your finger, as they pull you will hear the tension increase by the sound of the 'twang'. A couple times like this and it will be perfectly straight.
The other way to do it is like above but play a flame along it instead, this straightens and also hardens the copper ( as you said its a bit soft) only problem is you then need to lay it along the workbench and run sandpaper over it to remove the scale, otherwise it won't solder.
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Thank you Brian. I have been looking at your builds. Very technical, & good. Just one comment. You spent just over 50 Euro on your coaster. Only once did I spend more than that on a model. That was for first steam plant (cheddar) . Now last steam plant £9.99. Yes I did the stretch trick. But some how working it gets out off line shall we say. Always good to hear from you, with words of wisdom thanks.
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Another comment regarding your post Brian, I left it to see if someone noticed but no. Heating copper to red softens it not hardens. Sorry. Hammer
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:o.... my friend...you may remember I served an engineering apprenticeship at Metal Manufacturers in Port Kembla Australia ...[non ferrous wire & tube] so I do understand heat & copper products O0 .......
Derek....always watching... :-))
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Derek are you agreeing with me this time? I suppose you where to polite to disagree with Brian.
Rails fitted just to see how they look. Also fitted the speaking tube. Remove and paint when the aft section is at this stage. Etching primer for copper & brass. I will cut off the excess below after final fitting.
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RGY....I would never agree in words 'here' with anyone if I knew it was incorrect :-X .....interestingly....any form of work processing will induce work hardening of non ferrous wires or tubes ....
We could leave this at this simple point, however repeated heating [to red heat] & cooling of copper wire [under tension] will induce hardness within the wire O0
So back to the Totnes Castle...was the ships wheel really so close to the bow?
Derek
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RGY....I would never agree in words 'here' with anyone if I knew it was incorrect :-X .....interestingly....any form of work processing will induce work hardening of non ferrous wires or tubes ....
We could leave this at this simple point, however repeated heating [to red heat] & cooling of copper wire [under tension] will induce hardness within the wire O0
So back to the Totnes Castle...was the ships wheel really so close to the bow?
Derek
:-)) :-)) :-))
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Well I do apologise to Brian. I will crawl back under my stone. Is it the tension that causes the hardness? All I know is I get it red hot to work when making boilers. I has said before never had an education.
Well again the helm is it in the right place I don't know any more, help.
Any way I have assembled all the rails, the hook circled, is to take the rail from the paddle box.
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Work stopped as I have 7 boats but after the summer sailing, none are seaworthy. So a lot of repairs to be going on with for quite a wile.