Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: Moller62 on January 20, 2018, 12:22:44 PM

Title: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 20, 2018, 12:22:44 PM
The winter print.

Searching for a small tug as a winter project I came accross the Damen Stan tug 1907.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Moller62 on January 20, 2018, 12:35:47 PM
There is no actual kit of this tug in a small size but it's 'offered' as a 3D print here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz8k-SL4xmU and here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2346104.

I wrote a mail to mr. Ernest aka 'byedesign'.
I got the stl file for 10 $ i think, and ordered a print at a local 3D print shop here in Copenhagen.
The result is here.

Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Moller62 on January 20, 2018, 12:40:30 PM
The hull was glued with super glue aka cyano acrylat and basic car primer filler was applied.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Moller62 on January 20, 2018, 04:39:44 PM

The propeller shafts


The shafts are expected to be 2mm i diameter in order to fit the printed propellers.
I made my tube/bushings of brass Ø 4/3 mm and Ø 3/2 mm.
The shafts were made along the describtion in http://www.building-model-boats.com/model-boat-propeller-shaft.html (http://www.building-model-boats.com/model-boat-propeller-shaft.html) .
The dimensions of the shafts are depicted below.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Moller62 on January 20, 2018, 04:41:27 PM
And yes it is your's truly on the double bass - http://allanmeinhardt.dk/trio
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Moller62 on January 20, 2018, 04:42:16 PM



An important hint regarding the propeller shaft, is to insert the shaft in the outher tube and bushings,
while you are doing the soldering job.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Moller62 on January 20, 2018, 04:43:53 PM
Here the shafts are mounted in the hull.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Moller62 on January 20, 2018, 04:47:20 PM
test mounting
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Moller62 on January 20, 2018, 04:48:01 PM
Final 'montage'
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 20, 2018, 06:19:16 PM
 
That's Awesome!!
 
What are the overall 3D model dimensions?
How much were the print costs?

Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: McGherkin on January 20, 2018, 06:31:24 PM
Great work so far! I really do think 3D printing will really be a huge part of modelling eventually, even though it's really cheating.

Damen's website never fails to amuse me. Want a 20,000t bulk carrier? Not a problem, we've got 3 of those in stock, would you like to buy a few harbour tugs, a dredger, a dive boat and whilst you're at it you may as well buy a fleet of police boats too?
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on January 20, 2018, 06:39:15 PM
Oops, I thought you were looking for a kit....  %)

There is a kit in 1/25 scale
http://www.modellbau-sievers.de/ (http://www.modellbau-sievers.de/)

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2450835-Damen-Stan-Tug-1907&highlight=stan (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2450835-Damen-Stan-Tug-1907&highlight=stan)

I did the fendering for the builder.  ok2
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: mikromodell on January 20, 2018, 07:40:31 PM

That's Awesome!!
 
What are the overall 3D model dimensions?
How much were the print costs?

I think the same and want to have it 1/87 scale :-)
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: Moller62 on January 21, 2018, 12:16:35 AM
Thx. for the nice comments.

Dimensions:

Length of the model is approx 27.5 cm aka 27.5x72 = 19.8 m.
According to the Damen site:
https://products.damen.com/en/ranges/stan-tug/stan-tug-1907 (https://products.damen.com/en/ranges/stan-tug/stan-tug-1907)
it should be 19.54, so that seems pretty close.

Print price:

I paid 130$ for the print.
Cheep or expensive?

If the print was to be ordered at Shapeways, I think the price would be at least double up, but the print quality would most likely also be better.
You could also compare to the Graupner Pollux 2 available at approx 130£.

Sievers:

Great work with the fendering. I was not aware of the kit from Sievers.

Scale:

The stl files from Ernest (ernestbacosa@gmail.com) are in scale 1:72, but it should be straight forward to rescale it to 1:87. Maybe we will see Stan 1907 in Hamburg WunderLand someday :-) ?
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72
Post by: mikromodell on January 21, 2018, 06:30:26 AM
. Maybe we will see Stan 1907 in Hamburg WunderLand someday :-) ?

Oops, you are able to read my thoughts... ;-)
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 21, 2018, 06:38:38 PM
The rudders are intended to have 2 mm shafts and the same goes for the 'printed' bushings.
I decided, as seen on the preveies picture, to make 3 mm holes and insert ø3/2 mm bushings.

Here the rudder arrangement can be seen from inside the hull.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 21, 2018, 06:41:24 PM

The print contains servo-horns but there is no means of fixing them without glue.
Instead I sourced some at the internet and made a small modification to fit my needs.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 21, 2018, 06:46:25 PM

Time for painting.
I used various acrylic paints.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 21, 2018, 06:51:32 PM
Here is a picture of the rudder arrangement suggested by the designer (byedesign). Pricture from thingiverse.




(https://cdn.thingiverse.com/assets/70/8a/31/87/d8/20171119_222141.jpg)
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: mikromodell on January 21, 2018, 07:00:27 PM
This will block where I draw the red circle...
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 21, 2018, 08:44:47 PM

Yes you are right. That might be potential problem.
On the other hand I guess it's the tug you can see on youtube.

Anyway I had a similar issue with my rudder handling.
So i had to cut the plywood at the dotted line.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 21, 2018, 09:11:00 PM

Another pic from the paint session, now including the driveline(mabuchi 2x130).
The speed controller is the smallest available for action called P68A.
http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/P68A.pdf (http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/P68A.pdf)
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 21, 2018, 09:13:14 PM
The controller gets it's power supply from the receiver, thus savings weight.

(http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/Action%20Electronics-speed_files/P68A.jpg)
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: mikromodell on January 22, 2018, 06:53:10 PM
Looks fine :-)
What's the diameter of the propellers? Are they printed ones too? I'm very interested in building this tug 1:87 scale. Theoretically the allowed weight is about 280 g. Do you know the weight of your model without RC equipment?
Regards
Harry
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 22, 2018, 10:50:39 PM

Regarding the drive line.

I can not remember where i ordered the moters, but I recall they were rated at 3-6(12) volt.
Most likely its similar to this one https://www.pololu.com/product/1117 (https://www.pololu.com/product/1117).

The specs are given as:

Approximate specifications at 6 V: free-run speed of 11,500 RPM, free-run current of 70 mA, and stall current of 800 mA

(https://a.pololu-files.com/picture/0J1101.1200.jpg?de2189bded7d3451eca8de02491878d3)



The two motors are connected in parallel to the Action pico controller.

There is also another 130 motor rated at 1-6 volt.
Here the specs are quite different:

Approximate specifications at 3 V: free-run speed of 17,000 RPM, free-run current of 250 mA, stall current of 3.85 A, stall torque of 0.75 oz-in.

This motor would most like cause the Pico controller to shot down, given the higher current consumption. The Pico controller has a peak load of 1000 mA.

The propellers are part of the print. They have 5 blades with an approx. diameter of 21 mm. The narrow part of the kort nozzle is approx. 23 mm.
I'll try to get hold of the weight tomorrow.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 23, 2018, 03:11:38 PM
Weight:

Tug all inc.      360 g
Bat + radio     113 g

Tug                247 g
Pico                 16 g
Motors 2x18     36 g
Rudder servo      3 g

Actual            192 g

As seen on the picture the tug floats approx 5 mm above the expected waterline.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: norry on January 23, 2018, 04:22:17 PM
...Hi Guys...
I built my Tug in 1:32 Scale for Tug Towing Competitions based on the Damen Stan Tug 1907 using one of MMB,s ASD Tug Hulls. The hull needs a wee bit of tinkering but not much...Here are a couple of pictures of my model called FREEDOM...I hope you like them...


You can buy a hull from Mark,s Model Bits on E-Bay for £45 plus £15 post  & Packing...


...Best Regards...Norry Mason...
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 23, 2018, 09:26:16 PM
Nice looking tug clearly inspired by the Damen design. Thx. for showing U.S.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 26, 2018, 04:42:13 PM
Paint scheme inspired by(http://www.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/7/3/3/2011337.jpg)
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 26, 2018, 05:16:16 PM
Still working on the roof details.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 26, 2018, 05:19:23 PM
Wonder what the 'main mast' with the two 'balls' on the side is doing. Is it a compass?
It appears to be a prominent feature of the 1907 design.


(http://static.heavyliftnews.com/media/fd/a/46c4a4f51becaad22ced4d671c784558427bc42cc20587bed86da9636e33eadf_m.jpg)
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: JimG on January 26, 2018, 08:28:56 PM
This is not a mast but a Binnacle. At the top under the dome is a magnetic compass for navigation. The balls are used to counteract the magnetic field of the steel hull and allow the compass to read correctly.
Jim
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: mikromodell on January 27, 2018, 07:25:44 AM
A colleague of me wanted to have a 3D printer as I told about the files. I hope, on Monday I will get the parts  :-))
Regards
Harry
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 27, 2018, 03:17:55 PM
Looks great. Is it rescaled to 1:87? What material is it printed in?
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: mikromodell on January 27, 2018, 07:53:12 PM
I hope, my colleague did it scale 1:87.... It's made from PLA, quite difficult to handle I read. On Monday I will get the parts.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 27, 2018, 10:56:39 PM



Good luck.


I also heard that it should be difficult to handle.
But using cyano acrylat as glue:


(https://www.harald-nyborg.dk/media/images/800/1715_665254.jpg)



Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 27, 2018, 10:57:30 PM
and a car filler primer it seems to work ok.


(https://dyncdn.thg.dk/img/49012_0_m_526_878.jpg)
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 27, 2018, 11:01:02 PM

Captain Airfix


Captain Airfix (from an old 1:72 kit) inspecting the 'top deck'.
The binnacle has an impressive size, but a lot of sanding and painting appears to be pending.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 27, 2018, 11:04:03 PM
Here the Captain is inspecting another Damen product.


[/img]http://www.skalamodelskibe.dk/forum/attachments/agter.jpg[/img]

(http://www.skalamodelskibe.dk/forum/attachments/total.jpg)

(https://sliedrecht24.nl/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Sea-Axe-fast-crew-supplier-Damen-e1498556199163.jpg)


http://www.skalamodelskibe.dk/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=162&rowstart=60 (http://www.skalamodelskibe.dk/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=162&rowstart=60)


Cheers Søren
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: RST on January 28, 2018, 12:11:41 AM
Are you doing what I read is apparently "normal" prep for 3D printed parts?  A wash with something like acetone or IPA is supposed to help smooth the surface and remove the printer contours before sanding, priming and then sanding / cutting back before painting.

...just regurgitating the info from other sources -Ive watched lots of guys do 3-d printing but never tried it myself.

Nice little model anyway.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: JimG on January 28, 2018, 04:59:59 PM
Smoothing with hot acetone vapour only works with ABS not PLA. PLA does not dissolve with solvent based glues so needs something like superglue to join. I have found 2 part acrylic adhesive will stick to PLA so is an alternative.
Jim
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on January 28, 2018, 08:30:17 PM
I agree that acetone will not work with PLA. I washed the parts with standard dishwasher solution and applied 3 rounds of car primer filler with sanding in between.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on February 02, 2018, 07:37:22 PM
How is it going with the ‘Wunderland’ version?
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on February 03, 2018, 05:05:44 PM
Ice breaking




https://youtu.be/auBvZO6US3Q (https://youtu.be/auBvZO6US3Q)


4 mm ice, 300 gram tug.

Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on February 05, 2018, 04:41:22 PM

Still working on the roof details.
Eventhough the Damen web site is a great source, when making the 1907 tug,
it could be nice with some drawings.

By accident i found this Russian page about tug 1907.

https://paper-models.ru/journals/item/bumazhnoe-modelirovanie-198-buksir-kantovshhik-general-raevskij (https://paper-models.ru/journals/item/bumazhnoe-modelirovanie-198-buksir-kantovshhik-general-raevskij)


(https://paper-models.ru/images/models-pub/bm/151-1.jpg)
The page has a download link to a zip file, containing a full cardboard model of the Stan tug 1907.

It appears to be of good quality with instructions sheets and drawings,
usefull for details regarding fitting out your model.
You can of course also build the model using cardbooard or plywood and make a cheep working model without 3D print.
Here is an extract from the zip file.
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on February 18, 2018, 10:34:24 AM

The missing table.

The print includes a table for the wheelhouse.
Somehow it got lost but luckily i managed to recover it before the vacuum cleaner.

Looks as if the painter has some small repair jobs, but the color on the floor seems pretty close to the Damen choise.

Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on March 27, 2018, 09:31:11 PM

Searching for a new motor


The very limited test sailing performed sofar, has proved that the current Polulu motors works fine.
The Polulus are strong enough but as always with small modelboats they seem to fast.


I'am looking for high torque and low RPM.
The Polulus has enough torque for the given propellers,
but due to possible debris in the water you would always want more torque and if possible lower RPM.


The model is designed for 130 size motors but the length of the motors are not limited so 180 size motors will also fit.
I've ordered 3 different motors, sourced on the internet.


The motors has been 'tested' metering the 'empty load' current and the stall current.
The motos were attempted stalled with my fingers.


The test was performed using 4 new alkaline 1.5v cells.
The voltage at the motor pins was 5.5v and the short circuit current was 1500 mA.


After the test I've opted for the no name motor KK A6





Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on March 27, 2018, 09:33:04 PM
The motors
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on March 27, 2018, 09:35:29 PM

For convenience I've added the links as text.


KK A6 [size=78%]https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2PCS-180-dc-motor-strong-magnet-3-9V-For-toy-ship-Car-model-3V-10000-RPM/32843900135.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.IvqRlU (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2PCS-180-dc-motor-strong-magnet-3-9V-For-toy-ship-Car-model-3V-10000-RPM/32843900135.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.IvqRlU)[/size]


180SH-2395 [/size][size=78%]https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2X-16mm-long-axis-WFF-180SH-2395-Metal-brush-DC-motor-Mute-High-speed-CD-player/32775610642.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2X-16mm-long-axis-WFF-180SH-2395-Metal-brush-DC-motor-Mute-High-speed-CD-player/32775610642.html)[/size]


FF-180PH-2855 [/size][size=78%]https://www.ebay.com/itm/MABUCHI-FF-180PH-2855-DC-3V-6V-17400RPM-High-Speed-180-Motor-DIY-Electric-Shaver-/262977697471 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/MABUCHI-FF-180PH-2855-DC-3V-6V-17400RPM-High-Speed-180-Motor-DIY-Electric-Shaver-/262977697471)[/size]


Polulu [/size][size=78%]https://www.pololu.com/product/1117 (https://www.pololu.com/product/1117)[/size]
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Brian60 on March 28, 2018, 07:50:09 AM
Looking at the motor specs (shown above) how are you going to slow those motors down? 17000rpm :o the tug will be planing like an offshore power boat racer!
Title: Re: Damen Stan Tug 1907 1:72 (3D printed)
Post by: Moller62 on July 01, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

I agree with Brian60 that the motor rated at 17000 rpm  is not well suited for this projekt.
Instead I used the no name option rated at 3V 10000 rpm.


I've tried the motors in two configurations.
The first configuration with one esc controlling both motors.
A video with this configuration can be seen here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ymHigkdKt0&t=55s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ymHigkdKt0&t=55s)



It works ok, but the steering ability does not seem to good.
It's hard to turn the tug around in a simgle arch without touching the banks of the pond.


The second configuration utilizes the p82 w-tail mixer from action.
http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/P82.pdf (http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/P82.pdf)



This setup has a dedicated esc for each motor.
It can be seen here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHRA70MtYQk&t=15s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHRA70MtYQk&t=15s)



Now it's possible to turn the tug on the spot.
Only concern is is that the mixer seems to accelrate the tug when a turn is attempted at low speed.