Model Boat Mayhem

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Other Technical Questions... => Topic started by: dpbarry on January 30, 2018, 11:59:12 PM

Title: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: dpbarry on January 30, 2018, 11:59:12 PM
Hi folks.


Now that the mortgage company is no longer making money from me  %% , I’ve obtained permission  :embarrassed:  to buy a new shed to put all my ‘junk’ in it... Yes, her words!!  <*<


What do I go for in terms of type. Wood or Metal?? I’m open to all suggestion bearing in mind, I’ll probably only get one shot at this  {-)


Regards


Declan
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: tigertiger on January 31, 2018, 04:07:31 AM
There is a third option, resin. Which seem to be growing in popularity, for good reasons IMHO



Loads of info if you do a search online for, 'sheds wood or metal'
Here are two top results https://www.whirlwindsteel.com/blog/bid/388802/metal-sheds-vs-wood-sheds-who-is-the-winner (https://www.whirlwindsteel.com/blog/bid/388802/metal-sheds-vs-wood-sheds-who-is-the-winner)
https://www.lifetime.com/customerservice/tipsandsolutionsdetail/194/which-shed-material-is-best-for-you (https://www.lifetime.com/customerservice/tipsandsolutionsdetail/194/which-shed-material-is-best-for-you)

Steel definitely seems to be the cheapest, but if you live in a stormy area, add for the cost of an anchoring kit. Steel can also be ugly with age, think about SWMBO's aesthetic sense.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Klunk on January 31, 2018, 04:28:50 AM
Wood all the time. Metal gets hot in summer and freezing in winter while plastic/resin tend to react with high winds. Wood is the more stable but does not last as long and requires yearly maintenance.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: tigertiger on January 31, 2018, 04:44:31 AM
Another advantage of wood, it is easy to mount shelves, power, etc. to the wooden frame or walls. I would also think about what kind of floor I wanted, concrete or raised wood, and what kind of foundation, if any will be needed.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Klunk on January 31, 2018, 05:20:48 AM
True tiger.  Its the only real option. Easy to insulate...
Easy to repair if damaged. Easy to convert inside with optional benches and racking. Best option is go for a thick wood on the outside. Best laid on a concrete base, with a wooden raised floor. Double doors a must. Biggest window option if you have a secure garden. I insulate sheds using polystyrene packaging held in with cheap OSB. All electrics in trunking with internal fuse board. A decent loud alarm system. Then do tge wooden floor with another layer of ply on top and a thermal insulation barrier then carpet that. Run a dehumidifier in there when its spring and autumn and a small electric or oil filled radiator during winter...just enough to stop things freezing. Decent lighting making sure all lights are over benches amd machinery. Not central! Always have too many sockets......and moynt guttering on the outside to a water bucket. Nothing worse than dripping water outside when your working in the shed. Means you get wrt going to the toilet. Upgrade the door locks to something better and mount wire mesh im the windows.....more places to hang little bits and tools!
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Klunk on January 31, 2018, 05:24:03 AM
Oh forgot to add....
Important equipment for shed
Kettle
Large 5ltr water bottle
Small desktop fridge for milk
Small sealed container to keep tea, coffee and sugar in.
If your the older generation...incontinent pants in case you did not fit the gutters as mentioned above
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: roycv on January 31, 2018, 07:01:29 AM
Hi Klunk, my experience is rather old, but the shed / workshop has survived a move and still looks OK after 24 years.  I would draw and plan a workshop out on paper to suit you and location bearing in mind the light available and position.  You may want to have a view of the house or whatever.
This gives you an idea of what you want and or could have.  I always go for the sky rather than start with a compromise.
I was surprised what poor quality garden sheds were, look OK but are drafty to be in with ill fitting doors and low quality glass.
They also come with very flimsy floors, I suggest 3/4 ply 8 x 4 sheets here.  I upgraded the floor when my shed was moved.
When you have an idea of your requirements check out the sheds.

I had mine made for me, it works out cheaper than you might expect. (I constructed my first one).  I found a wood company in Gerrards Cross who built cheaper than I could buy the wood, and delivered and errected, that was extra.

I would recommend double glazed glass to fit in the wood surrounds, not window units, it is surprisingly cheap.

I would suggest you go with the idea of an "extra room" rather than workshop.  If you can think ahead to the fitting out then put battens in to support shelves etc.  I insulated mine with some solid foam type material that came free, then I used tongue and groove cladding inside for the finish.  As I said before, it was like an extra room and I have never regretted it.  You may move house and this will be something you can leave behind.
I have no experience of metal sheds but they may come in as more economical in comparison to above.

There are some " musts"  A solid floor and double glazed windows.  Also consider the roof, after experience I favour a flat roof sloping from the front with an overhang at the front of about a foot.  (You can hang a flower basket from it then).  I needed the highish roof so that I could rig a yacht.

You will find kitchen units are very good for constructing a bench, with an "off cut" thick work top as surface, so this can be any length to suit space.  We did have a bespoke kitchen furniture company in Watford and they made drawer units for me, low profile drawers are quite cheap.  I had their bottom quality and collected them myself and they were very cheap.  You will not need the legs they come with for kitchens.

I hope some of the above helpful, this is my experience of mistakes made in the past.  I use convection heating and if starting now would fit bright LED lighting.  It is a good idea to work out where major tools are to be located and allow for that, as far as size goes it will always be too small after a couple of years!
I have repeated some of what has already been said hope you will forgive me.

Best regards
Roy


Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: david48 on January 31, 2018, 07:52:00 AM

If possible build your own ,if you can build a boat a shed with the aid of the interweb .For other reasons that you can not have one made definitely of the shelf are rubbish , Made out of larch if you can get it done for the cladding, boarded vertical with 5inch boards and the joins covered with 2 1/2inch laths  .The style of roof has to be considered ,a peak or pent if you decide on a pent head room on the low  side has to be high enough to stand up, position of door away from the prevailing weather. If you put it on a concrete base the cold will strike through mount it on sleepers  and a good BOARDED floor on joists at 14inch centres .if you use ply and it gets wet near the door it will still delaminate ,Chinese marine is rubbish and real good quality marine  ply will take up the mortgage money. Roof material ,heat rises so I use insulated tin sheets ,see Steadmans roofing for details they deliver and it does not matter of size of order.
That's my thoughts ,if you want to PM me for more info please do .
David
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Brian60 on January 31, 2018, 08:02:56 AM
You must also I'm afraid consider thieves. 20 years ago I had a lovely shiplap garden shed for my modelling, 12ft by 10ft - I went as large as I could. It had windows along one side. Being savvy I covered these with some reinforcing mesh and bolted through to the inside - thinking ahead to protect my stuff. To no avail, one night they entered my garden and took a crowbar to the door, cleaned me out of all my tools. I had a new door and frame fitted with extra locks.

Six months later they were back again but this time jemmied the shiplap planks away from the framework at the back to get in. Stripped me of all my newly replaced tools. The police said it was the same people, how would they know which was the only corner that didn't have benches or storage racks against the inner walls? The upshot was the insurance company would only pay out on the proviso I replaced with a brick or similar structure.

So my advice would be to go for a concrete sectional shed, or even a garage but with the large door sealed up.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: plastic on January 31, 2018, 08:45:27 AM
Why not build a proper brick structure with a proper tiled roof - as a 'summer house' so swmbo thinks it's partially for her?

That way you can build much bigger with her full approval.

When finished, just say it's full of spiders and it's all yours.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: inertia on January 31, 2018, 09:24:09 AM
Declan
I agree from personal experience that brick-built is by far the best option. If you can't do that then these are a much better alternative to the average ship-lap or T&G garden shed https://www.waltons.co.uk/log-cabins (https://www.waltons.co.uk/log-cabins)
Other suppliers are available - Waltons just happen to be nearest to me.
DM
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: roycv on January 31, 2018, 09:46:51 AM
Hi David, I am not quite sure what the second sentence means in your post. 
We agree that a solid floor is good I have had my ply floor in service for 13 years now and with the walls protecting it there is no sign of any problems.  I think it was outside grade for builders, not marine grade, we also have a lesser grade down here called Thames grade.  I have a concrete base with 4 x 4 beams to support it and the beams have a covering to stop damp and also to stop a wind from blowing underneath.  All in all it is nice and snug in there in the worst of weathers.  I would not consider making a roof too low to walk under!

I had great pleasure in building a workshop from scratch many years ago about 8' x 6' and assembled everything on my own.  I was studying PERT analysis at the time (1970) and had every job sorted so that I could get back from work, find a 30 minute job and do it then it was time with the children.  The shed went up withing 6 weeks of starting.

You mention construction with larch etc, I think down south we do not have that luxury as an option.  We are constrained by our wood yards, who are there to sell to builders etc.

Many of us have time constraints and having something made can be a viable option, my daughter has just had a summerhouse delivered and installed, with a more substantial floor it would be almost ideal but it was not cheap.

regards Roy


Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Tug Fanatic on January 31, 2018, 09:58:01 AM

Don't metal sheds suffer from bad condensation problems unless well insulated?


With woods sheds there are enormous differences in quality - from total rubbish to a log cabin. I have a wood shed made by a local timber yard to my design that cost less than a much lower quality factory made example. The problem is that there is so much gardening stuff in there that I can't use it for modelling.  <:(


There is one rule. Whatever size you are considering will not be big enough.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: inertia on January 31, 2018, 10:18:43 AM
Hi David, I am not quite sure what the second sentence means in your post.
I read it as "If there are reasons why you can't have one made then an off-the-shelf alternative is not recommended" or words to that effect!

I had a 10 x 8 wooden shed a while back which I needed to extend by 7ft, so I priced up all the timber etc to do it myself. Then just out of interest I asked the local firm who'd made the original shed if they could make the extension and how much it would cost. Because of their bulk-buying of timber the price came out at considerably less than just the timber would have cost me - and that included building and installing the thing. My recommendation would be to seek out a local business to make one for you and not buy one from B&Q or wherever.
DM
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Bob K on January 31, 2018, 10:55:47 AM
I had a 10 x 8 wooden shed a while back . . . .

My little indoors workshop is only 12 ft x 7.5 ft.  Trying to build, and store, model boats in here is almost unworkable.
A extra 7 ft would be wonderful, but the front of the house cannot be extended so I have to make do.

Anyone building a shed for a workshop should try to make it as large as possible.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: roycv on January 31, 2018, 10:56:54 AM
Hi Inertia, thanks for the explanation, I agree with your extension experience, that was why I had one built in 1993 and still going strong.
regards to all, Roy
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: plastic on January 31, 2018, 11:00:45 AM

Anyone building a shed for a workshop should try to make it as large as possible.

I totally agree - I had the space to build a 33ft x 12ft brick/block workshop with a proper tiled roof. It came in at just £7k for everything.

One of the nosey neighbours complained to the council that I'd built a bungalow in the back garden but building control firmly told them that it was a workshop.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: bfgstew on January 31, 2018, 11:16:10 AM
Remember the 'Three little pigs'........go for a solid brick built workshop. Build it as big as you can, make sure it 'feels' part of the house rather than just an 'outhouse'. I think most estate agents refer to them as studios or home office.......adds to value of the house.
Just my pennies worth.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: plastic on January 31, 2018, 11:18:49 AM
Remember the 'Three little pigs'........go for a solid brick built workshop. Build it as big as you can, make sure it 'feels' part of the house rather than just an 'outhouse'. I think most estate agents refer to them as studios or home office.......adds to value of the house.
Just my pennies worth.

If it is within 5m of the house, you need planning permission/permitted development and building regs apply. Beyond 5m, almost anything goes within loose regulations about max height & floor area.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: dpbarry on January 31, 2018, 11:22:25 AM
Cheers folks for all the input. So much to consider. Whilst I've got rid of the mortgage company, I don't want to end up taking out another mortgage to build a shed.  :} SWMBO would slice me up!!  O0 <*<. At the same time though, as I said, I want something to last

I'm going to go around a few of the shed builders in my area here in N. Ireland to see what is available. Like the old saying, measure twice, cut once!!

Declan
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Tug Fanatic on January 31, 2018, 11:26:56 AM
Ask about having the timber treated.  :-)) By that I mean pressure treated rather than just dipped in a bath of the cheapest colouriser which is what most shed makers seem to do.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: dpbarry on January 31, 2018, 11:27:26 AM
If it is within 5m of the house, you need planning permission/permitted development and building regs apply. Beyond 5m, almost anything goes within loose regulations about max height & floor area.

I did have plans passed for a garage (now expired) but costs were prohibitive at the time. Garden isn't that big and situating the shed would be well within the 5m range. I've seen prefab sheds advertised that don't need planning permission as its not a 'fixed' structure and below a particular size.

The next lot of months is going to see quite a few visits to shed builders  %% %%

Declan
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: plastic on January 31, 2018, 11:41:48 AM
I did have plans passed for a garage (now expired) but costs were prohibitive at the time. Garden isn't that big and situating the shed would be well within the 5m range. I've seen prefab sheds advertised that don't need planning permission as its not a 'fixed' structure and below a particular size.

The next lot of months is going to see quite a few visits to shed builders  %% %%

Declan

The 5m rule for garages & outbuildings is in case you extend the house and annexe the nearby structure so they insist on building regs within 5m. Prefab sheds don't count.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: GAZOU on January 31, 2018, 01:05:32 PM

Avoir la place pour un canapéIMPORTANT
Avoir la place pour un canapé


IMPORTANT
Have the place for a sofa










Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: grendel on January 31, 2018, 01:30:51 PM
My shed is quite small, but it is basically half of the conservatory that ran across the back of my house, I can do this since my wife has now left me (for greener pastures / someone else (good luck to them)) and can no longer complain at my making workshoppy noises near the house.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Tug Fanatic on January 31, 2018, 02:02:12 PM

.................... I can do this since my wife has now left me.............................


Sounds a rather dramatic solution to wanting a shed!  :}
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: SailorGreg on January 31, 2018, 03:18:12 PM
Just to reinforce what others have said: timber, and as expensive as you can go. A proper timber building  (log cabin type) would be my choice but they are £000's so might be a little out of reach.  A bespoke building from a local company sounds a good prospect, or build your own design and get exactly what you want. But definitely not a B&Q garden shed. However much you work on it, it still won't improve the quality of the basic structure.


Greg
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: plastic on January 31, 2018, 03:22:41 PM
There are a lot of modern replacements for wood these days - look at Cembrit which is a fibre concrete panel that lasts forever. You can get it in large sheets of different colours and surface finishes or even fake wood-grained planks. Doesn't need painting or any maintenance - it's that trendy exterior cladding that architects use on modern buildings.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: dpbarry on January 31, 2018, 03:36:48 PM
Cheers Guys  :-)) :-))
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: tigertiger on January 31, 2018, 03:44:52 PM
Thinking more about the idea of getting a local builder to do it for you. Other than what has already been said about material costs, they already have the know-how, experience and the tools to do the job. What is more, they can do you proper electrics, with an independent fuse/breaker box in the workshop, and power running into the workshop from underground. That would be much better than the the extension power cord running overhead between the house and the shed, which can be a nuisance as well as a hazard.
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: dpbarry on January 31, 2018, 04:03:39 PM
 :-)) :-))

One of our shore crew is a qualified spark and as I work in a school which was newly built a while back, I've got lovely aluminium trunking that can be used. Gathering up bits and pieces as I go.

There is a local guy that builds sheds not far from me so going to call out to his workshop over the next few weeks, plus all the others to get a feel of what they can offer.

Declan
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: inertia on January 31, 2018, 04:23:13 PM
I don't know what planning rules for outbuildings apply in N. Ireland but the English ones are explained here https://interactive.planningportal.co.uk/mini-guide/outbuildings/0 (https://interactive.planningportal.co.uk/mini-guide/outbuildings/0)
I bet there's little difference between the two.
DM
 
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 31, 2018, 04:48:42 PM
Don't the NI ones need to be bomb proof?

Colin
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: dpbarry on January 31, 2018, 04:55:44 PM
 {-) {-)

Not now Colin. Don't ya know there's a ceasefire.  <*<

You've been in yer shed too long :}

Don't the NI ones need to be bomb proof?

Colin
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Stavros on January 31, 2018, 09:11:42 PM
Spent well over £1500 for a 16x16 wooden shed over 10 yrs ago double cladded it and insulated it before I wored it ect I Every 2 years I give it a coat of Ronseal wood stain to tart it up Only last year I had to replace the roof due to the felt tearing off in a storm But I did use a steel sheet corrugation on top of the exsiting roof after it had dried out ..even when it rains you can not hear it on the roof




Dave
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: bfgstew on January 31, 2018, 09:25:44 PM
Hmmmmm, think out of the box for a moment.....!


Why not dig down, no one need know, no planning permission, get rid of soil like they did in the 'great escape' and you end up with a weather proof man cave that can double up as a nuclear bunker when Kim Dung Wee pushes the button......... %%
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: ballastanksian on January 31, 2018, 10:11:19 PM
If you cannot have a separate shed for gardening equipment, then have a small section for gardening paraphernalia to live in, possibly with a separate door (like a cupboard?) and then you can keep the wrong things from sneaking into your Mancave.

My friend put a shed up and before he knew it three bikes were stuck in there as well as the lawn mower allowed for making life difficult enough that he stopped using it. I think the roof fell in three or four years ago. He didn't build big things, only looking to paint miniatures, but he has a desk in the bedroom (supportive wife) and uses acrylics.

The moral is, plan ahead and account for all unexpected items 'that might be dumped in the shed'  >:-o
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Klunk on February 01, 2018, 02:59:41 AM
in favour of artificial grass and decking. problems sorted
Title: Re: New shed. Wood or Metal?
Post by: Captain Flack on February 02, 2018, 04:47:54 PM
I have a 3/4" T & G shed which was double dipped and professionally erected on an eco deck with 4" wooden bearers and guttering.  Cost well into the 000's but one of the best investments I made.  I won't allow anything else to be stored in the shed, I have other storage facilities for that.  Lined and carpeted, with frost heaters for nightime use.  I can spend hours out there and even put the old cordless telephone system to good use when we bought the new one.  Means the wife doesn't have to come out and I don't have to go in. ;)   Bought a nice office chair from the local charity shop, and all the racking came from either B & Q or Homebase when it was in the sale. O0