Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Beginners start here...! => Topic started by: SteveH on February 05, 2018, 12:12:10 pm
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I have built two Billing plank on frame jobs and now looking at a third. I found that one problem with using the brass nails provided was that when you sanded the finished hull the plank wood came away quicker than the brass and left the nail head area proud. I tried punching the heads in but found it tricky to position the punch accurately, and just as likely to punch a hole in the plank!
As I am not going to be in a hurry this time, I am thinking of drilling the planks and ribs and securing with wooden trenails ( plus glue of course). I was thinking that cocktail sticks might be suitable. Anyone done this? Does it work? any other suggestions or advice welcomed.
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Personally on all my plank on frame models over the years, I have never left the nails in. They are always removed and the holes suitably filled. Sometimes this is awkward to do if the nail is put all the way in, but it is possible to do. Most nails do not have to go all the way in, so leave them proud for easy removal.
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Buy yourself a jewellers draw plate. Using the plate in a vice pull cocktail sticks through it to reduce the diameter, I reduce them to 1mm.
Drill your plank and frame and glue and dowel. On flat surfaces drill the holes at right angles to the plank. On curves angle the hole slightly to help going round the curve.
:-)) :-))
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Hi Steve , him of the cunning plans again.
I found that I rarely needed to nail or pin the planks on my Billings Nordkap. I use ordinary snap back document clips (cheap at any stationers) modified with a bit of planking superglued in the middle. With just glue and a clip on each bulkhead the plank was held in position without resorting to nails ,pins or treenails. In difficult areas some beefy rubber bands helped.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/02/05/20180205_161901.jpg) (http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/BtUMZ)
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hi there Steve
The system I have used for all of my models is this
I have 2 sanding blocks - they are approx. 12 inches long x 2 inches wide x 1 inch thick. On each side of the blocks I have glued various grades of sanding paper, using double sided tape - so, when the sandpaper wears down I can replace it. I find by using this system that it helps sand down the nail heads before it sands the planks, due to the fact that you are using a solid block to sand with. On some of the difficult nails, I tend to punch down just below the surface with a nail punch and if I have gone too deep I would fill in with a bit of filler. Pic follows of a double planked hull which I have just finished.
John
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That's a blooming clever idea Baldrick! It's funny how good ideas seem to come in spurts.
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John, I was surprised to see the above photo showing a pinned assy. In your masterclass blog building your 63ft air sea rescue you show double
diagonal planking with no pins?
Are pins necessary or will glue suffice?
N
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Not familiar with Billings kits. But having built two plank-on-frame hulls of balsa planks, I do not use nails or clamps at all. Just medium CA, applied to the edge of the previous plank and the frames. I put the CA on just enough of the length of the plank as I can hold with my fingers, 6-8" at a time. The CA "grabs" in less than 30 seconds, obviating the need for clamps, nails, or pins.
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That's a blooming clever idea Baldrick! It's funny how good ideas seem to come in spurts.
Is that spurts as in exspurts. Ie ex= as in "has been " & spurts as in "under pressure"
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I've never used nails in my POF builds, just CA.
Peter.
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Hi Steve I have built plank on frame in the past and always found the use of cocktail sticks very good indeed
Dave
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Regarding cocktail sticks, I have found (I built a fleet of twenty or so Tudor and French warships in 1:300th with many smal mastst etc made from cocktail sticks) that their grain varies from straight down to horrible diagonal direction making these useless in any application where pressure is applied. They snap easily when being spun in a drill to taper or thin them and poking them in holes can leave you with a pre battle damaged mast or treenail :((
Your Significant other will think you mad when she sees you doing it, but look through your packs of sticks and discard the crap ones.
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Hi Steve.
One question not yet aired is "Are you going to treat the hull internally with a resin and fibreglass coat before final finishing the deck" We usually do this particularly on Billings hulls otherwise they leak, particularly in the propshaft area. If so, you don't have to rely purely on the mechanical strength of the plank to frame fixing. (i.e.: nailing or pinning the plank to the frame) So long as the gluing is man enough to hold together during the planking process once the fibreglass and resin is applied the whole thing becomes bombproof.
Also when the hull has had its initial sandings I find an exterior coat of resin helps to get a finish which can be smoothed to totally lose any planking lines.
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Hi Steve.
One question not yet aired is "Are you going to treat the hull internally with a resin and fibreglass coat before final finishing the deck" We usually do this particularly on Billings hulls otherwise they leak, particularly in the propshaft area. If so, you don't have to rely purely on the mechanical strength of the plank to frame fixing. (i.e.: nailing or pinning the plank to the frame) So long as the glueing is man enough to hold together during the planking process once the fibreglass and resin is applied the whole thing becomes bombproof.
Also when the hull has had it's initial sandings I find an exterior coat of resin helps to get a finish which can be smoothed to totally loose any planking lines.
This will be a display model only. The Danmark does have a prop and I'm sure you could make a working model of it, but with all the hours that will have to go into rigging those three masts I'd be terrified to risk it on the water. Could well be worth resin coating the planked hull prior to sanding to get a good smooth finish, though. :-))
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I have found adding microballoons to epoxy for coating the outside gives an finish that is easier to sand and needs less work to get a smooth finish.
Jim
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For my BB Nordkap I've used only pins to keep the wet plank in place until dried out. After drying, the plank usually kept the desired shape and the pins were just for psychological effect more than really needed. Of course, the tiny holes left in the planks ended up under the filler.
I've only used wood glue for the planking, no CA. Epoxy coat inside, Fiber glass + epoxy finishing resin (3 layers of resin, thinned with alcohol) on the outside.
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I didn't wet the planks on my Nordkap, and had no problems bending them, I also mainly used CA, with a few T pins on the planks nearest the keel, no nails. Filler, high build spray and lots of rubbing on the outside, followed by paint from spray cans. I used some fibreglass matting on the inside of the hull for extra strength. She's nearly 10 years old now, has had a lot of use, and still looks as good as the day of her maiden voyage. Nordkap is a kit I'd recommend to anyone wanting to try their hand at plank on frame construction. The only slight drawback is that it's designed as a static model, so RC, motor, battery, and rudder installation needs planning before commencing the build.
Peter.
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Hi all, perhaps I have been fortunate with my cocktail sticks as I like them and 'nail' them in and trim them off.
If you do use the nails or even pins to secure the planks then the pin or nail tends to push the wood fibres apart on its way in.
If you remove the nail afterwards you can get away with wetting the holes and the compressed wood fibres will re-expand and the hole is filled.
I have found when planking to follow the flow of the plank, which may leave a space. These spaces are usually long triangles. Another plank can be cut to the angle and the filler plank pushed into position and then trimmed at the big end. Very satisfying doing planking,
regards Roy
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my build had frames, with stringers, then ribs over the frames at about 1" intervals, the planking was then over this, so I just used 1" G clamps (from wilco's) to hold the plank at about every 4th or 5th rib. due to the curve at the bow, the planks were first steamed and clamped, then 24 hours later, glued and clamped.
here is an idea of what its like from the inside
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here's the bow
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I didn't wet the planks on my Nordkap, and had no problems bending them, I also mainly used CA, with a few T pins on the planks nearest the keel, no nails[...]
To this I have to say Hah! As if we don't know who really kept the planks from dislodging!! We all can see his guilty looking face in the first photo, your feeble attempts at hiding him were useless!