Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Piers Grabeard on March 03, 2018, 09:49:44 pm
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Just joined the Forum today and I'm still trying to work my way around the site, as computers are not my first subject. Apparently it's helpful if we introduce ourselves. I've just completed my 30th boat model, a 1/10 scale model of a Dutch Damen Stan patrol, which works out at 63 inches in length. All my models are about that length, as being the largest model I can work on in my shed. Most are made of metal, in this case reclaimed sheets of 0.047" aluminium. I have built 7 GMC DUKWS, several to museum standard. I used to sail at Verulamium but on my last visit there was no water, only 2 feet of mud. St Albans have done next to no maintenance in decades and blame everyone else, ducks, geese,people feeding wildfowl, water companies, river authorities etc. The possibility of sailing at Hemel is interesting, but there must be parking facilities as my models are too heavy to carry more than a few yards. I can post a few pictures when I have worked out how to do it. I'm currently working on an RAF Range Safety Launch, Thornycroft 43ft c1955, at 60 inches which is 1:8.5 scale, and am gathering info and pictures to help me.
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A warm welcome Piers. I have learned much here, and made many new friends.
Not sure where you are in Hertfordshire, but if you get a chance to visit Black Park lake I think you would like it. Quite large, spring fed and weir level controlled. Weed rare. Lots of wild life.
Easy access for big boats from car park. SL3 6DS
We usually meet Sunday mornings and Thursdays from mid day.
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Hi Piers , welcome aboard.
As a lot of us bilge rats would very much like to see some of your work we hope you can get to grips with the forum image posting procedures. Any problems just ask.
Balders
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I replied to the messages and attached three photos. Got message, 'my message could not be saved refer to adminisatrator' and it vanished!
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Hum, perhaps you have to post a certain number of posts before it will let you put up images . Not sure , hang on a while and Martin will advise .
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Hi Piers,
There are a couple of ways to add images to your post.
Use this link to view Martin's image tutorial
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23.msg629393.html#msg629393 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23.msg629393.html#msg629393)
Looking for to your pic's of your Dutch Damen Stan patrol build
Regards
C-3PO
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hi piers....you dont want to go to black park.......bobk needs "volunteers" to launch his large Agincourt! seriously a good club with a large open water. alternatively you can look at the Welwyn Garden City club or the Stevenage or even Luton. all are fine clubs. im the person sorting the license at Hemel. this will come under the Luton club for a couple of years ehile the new club finds its feet. feel free to come up one sunday and have a visit. or our club meeting is on monday 12th march at tge bushmead community center lu2 7sf. we are having a bring and buy.....ps anyone can come for the evening!!
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Hello Klunk,
Thanks for the info. My son has looked at this and says my pictures are much bigger than you are able to take, and I do not know how to shrink them. I can only suggest that a dozen or more of my boats are on my FB site in a folder called 'some of my boat models' and are viewable there, including construction details. I'm on there under the name peter beardsmore with a profile picture of an RAF launch. In the meantime I will try and figure this out. Thanks, Peter
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Resizing photos for posting on Mayhem has been discussed many times before, and there are a number of ways to do it. Light Image Resizer was recommended to me some years ago and I have used it successfully ever since. There is a free download available here http://www.obviousidea.com/windows-software/light-image-resizer/ (http://www.obviousidea.com/windows-software/light-image-resizer/) I find it very easy to use. As I said, it's free, although the full version must be purchased. Nevertheless, the free version is more than adequate for my needs.
Peter.
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Uploading using the forum upload facility on the green button all photos are resized automatically . You don't have to do anything to shrink them
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23.400.html
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Thanks Peter. Tried what you said, but it now won't accept my password. Tried a few times.
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Try again tomorrow Piers. I don't know why computers do it but they seem to have off periods. Welcome by the way.
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Thanks Peter. Tried what you said, but it now won't accept my password. Tried a few times.
Hi Piers,
Had a quick look at your Facebook page - wow - some amazing builds.
Best bet is to use Martin's new fangled image server which is separate system from Model Boat Mayhem but linked via the green button.
So you are already on Mayhem all you will also need a separate account on the Mayhem Image Server (a separate system with separate user name and password)
To subscribe you need to go here and open an account - http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/ (http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/)
From memory you can only use A-Z 0-9 no other characters and no spaces in either username or password.
Once you have done this you can upload and auto post images from the green button in a post ( it's in the toolbar below the bold font button)
C-3PO
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Hello C3PO,
Thanks for the compliment on my models and for the tips. I'm barely computer literate, I can just about manage FB on a good day, but when I feel ambitious, I will try what you said. All my models except the blue launch and the RAF 63ft Fire Boat which were wood, were made from scrap metal. Once upon a time we had scrap yards where I could buy very cheaply all manner of sheet ali etc. They have all gone, and I am no longer allowed to buy metal from the Council Tip. (Health and Safety). The current build, the Damen Stan 1605 Patrol boat was made from a large ali van body, and all the sections were made from an aluminium greenhouse, which had some very interesting and complicated sections. You can cut most sections out of them on a circular saw bench, 'L' 'U' 'T' sections etc. You need full face protection and heavy leather gloves for this operation as the 'saw-dust' is needles of aluminium which have enough velocity to penetrate skin, like little darts.
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Here are some pics from Piers Grabeard's build's...
All my models except the blue launch and the RAF 63ft Fire Boat which were wood, were made from scrap metal
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/RSL-1663E-004.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/RSL-1663E-007.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/Damen-Stan-14-day-progress-013.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/Model-1624-take-2-002.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/damen-1605-intrepid-crew-003.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/damen-1605-intrepid-crew-007.jpg)
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Nice to share my model pictures with other enthusiasts.
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Absolutely stunning work :-))
Peter.
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The rivets add a lot of period character to the model Peter. This is in metal as Danielle and Brian B's work is in timber. I love the way the panels and components fit together along with the lightening holes and tabs, it has the feel of an aircraft.
Gorgeous :-))
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I learned a few things at Handley Page in the 1960's. (They had a lot better facilities though!)
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A friend of mine worked at De Havilland's in the fifties working on the Comet as well as conversion and modification jobs. One job he had was to make and fit a silver lavatory paper holder into an aircraft of the Royal flight :-)
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There was no toilet on a Victor, only polythene pipes into plastic bottles.
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More images on behalf of Piers Grabeard - apologies if I have them in the wrong order...
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/DUKW-VII-Progress-010.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/DUKW-VII-Progress-018.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/scan0008.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/scan0010.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/scan0022.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/scan0012.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/dukw-progress-march-30-2011-003.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/scan0013.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/scan0014.jpg)
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Don't worry about the order, I built 7 DUKW's and I can't tell one from another, now.
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and more.....
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/Model-30-cosmetically-almost-complete-012.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/Model-30-cosmetically-almost-complete-009.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/Model-30-cosmetically-almost-complete-005.jpg)
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/03/06/Model-30-cosmetically-almost-complete-003.jpg)
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Wow. :-))
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Stunning Models,
Len.
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Thankyou.
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Piers you are a craftsman.
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Amen :-))
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Thanks to those who made nice comments. My models don't have the finesse of some I've seen, they tend to be very practical working models for r/c. I don't have to spend ages when I get to the pond with the super-glue sticking on all the bits that fell off on the journey; and they do come off best in any collision!
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Any lack in finesse (and I cannot see much of a lack) is made up for by the interesting joints and structural detail. A modern fibreglass plane may look all sleek and snazzy, but there is nothing to beat seeing how a Lancaster or Spitfire has been shaped and assembled from formed panels and challenging formers. Seeing the section of wooden lattice , all two feet of it? from a crashed zeppelin at Yeovilton is such an education seeing how each piece of wood was shaped and material removed to lighten it.
Flush rivets may have been more aesthetic, but they are much less interesting :-))
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I found flush rivetting to be quite tricky. Getting the depth just right is hard to judge. I have bought several countersunk bits with the correct size (3/32) mandrel in the end, but the mandrels are always seriously undercut in the shaping of the cutting edge. The thin aluminium I use doesn't support the weakened mandrel sufficient and the tiniest 'chatter' and the mandrel snaps off. I have ended up just using a drill of the same diameter as the overall dimension of the countersunk rivet head.
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Sir, I salute you.
Your models are superb and a credit to your metalwork skills :-))
Simon
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Amazing %% 8) and Welcome Piers
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Thankyou Plastic and to several others for kind comments. Just in case anyone is interested, the 63 inch Damen Stan 1605 Patrol model took 5,000 3/32" pop rivets to make. I've learned a lot about pop rivets since I started making these models. It also took a hundred or so 8BA nuts and bolts and a quantity of 3/32 solid aluminium aircraft rivets from the Hastings hangar at Handley Page. I was given a shoe box of assorted rivets in 1967 and I'm still using them.
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very nice models, thank you for sharing :-))
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Thankyou. If anyone wants to make a metal model, I'm quite happy to pass on what I've learned over the years.
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When you next build a model, do a build log and then you can share your wisdom and experience in a measured and orderly manner. Don't worry if you don't seem too get many responses sometimes when you do start one, just look at the visits and you will be surprised at how many people are watching O0 :-))
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Hello Ballastanksian,
My recent boat, number 30, I photographed its progress from day 1 every week or two until I finished it. I haven't managed to post any pictures, as I can't get the system to work and I'm not very good on computers. Somebody else has posted my other pictures, and if he was willing, I could send them to him. The first lesson I learned is when producing drawings is not to draw them on wallpaper joined edge to edge to get the size needed. I drew them on a large sheet of ply from Wickes, which is rigid and much more useful. Drawings on paper stretch and shrink with humidity and also tear very easily. Also needed is another ply board with battens down both sides and acrossways here and there to build the model on. This is marked with a centre line and lines across every 1/2 inch and the 'stations' numbered in inches. There must be holes cut out in the middle to put your hand inside. All the bulkheads and frames are cut out and attached to this board with nuts and bolts before skinning commences. Frames are needed at intervals no more than 4 inches, and 2 or 3 inch intervals where the hull shape is complicated. It's very similar to building a balsa model aircraft except you are using thin sheet metal. One thing with metal is that there are no shortcuts. The skin has to be right, you can't file or sand down the contours afterwards like you can with wood, it's only 25 to 45 thou thick. Metal is not easily bent in complicated curves without professional bending and shaping presses; you are generally limited to curves in one plane. The hull is assembled with 3/32 inch blind (pop) rivets, countersunk below the waterline and your personal choice above. Good quality rivets retain the snap head and are watertight, and even the slightest tendency to leak is cured once the model is painted. More troublesome are the seams, but are easily fixed with paint. Don't use filler to start with, it just sits on the outside. Use up any old gloss solvent-based paint on the inside of all the seams. It will penetrate the seams and may drip underneath the boat to start with, but after 8 coats, will fully seal all the joins. Colour is immaterial, I have loads from old house decoration jobs. Any holes and cut-outs in the frames and bulkheads need to be made before they are fitted. Drilling holes afterwards is very tricky. It can be done with a right-angle drill drive, or with a long drill, made by silver soldering a drill onto a long shaft, but it is not easy. When the hull is all rivetted up it can be removed from the assembly board; it will be very rigid and strong. All my stringers and longerons are either cut from sections of greenhouse frame or bent from sheet. For this you will need a couple of lengths of 3/4 x 1.1/2 mild steel bar about 2 or 3 feet long. You will need lots of G cramps and a piece of RSJ from a big building. Domestic RSJ's are a bit light in section. This is clamped to the work bench and the work all clamped up. It then remains to hammer up your sheet metal working along the edge gradually until you have it all bent up at right angles. It's easier to hammer upwards because you can see the line you are bending the metal to. You can't if it poitning downwards. I have a big collection of iron blocks of all shapes and sizes for shaping metal around. 'U' channel can be made by hammering the metal with it clamped to the edge of angle iron and hammering it around. Different gauges of angle iron will give different sections of channel. I'll stop here in case of gone on too long, but I can carry on if anybody wishes, and can certainly try to answer questions, and if all the construction stages are wanted I will submit more photos for inclusion. Peter