Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: unbuiltnautilus on March 09, 2018, 07:25:33 pm
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Prompted by the Type 42 paint question, I am convinced that RN ships were painted in an almost Duck Egg Blue colour in the mid 50s through 60s. I have seen it rendered on a number of shipyard models, a very fine Brave Borderer model at Southern Model Show, a big 1/48 scale Leander model ( I think..) and a couple of 'compass' fittings on the bridge wings of HMS Edinburgh which were a different colour to everything surrounding them, which I assumed had been passed on through the fleet for thirty years. Also the twin 4.5" turret, currently on display at Explosion in Gosport displays a hint of this in its colouring. It is an early twin turret as it has the glass dome on top of it.
Am I imagining this or was it a thing???
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I know what you mean. I have seen quite warm greys on certain vessels and have copied it, though randomly for my vessels as it looks better than dull greys made from a black and white.
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My Tiger is done in the grey for the 80's period and at times looks very blue. A good example is HMS Cavalier, at Chatham, the BSI numbers I posted to the other post produce the gray we know now
bob
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I once built a plastic RN Sea Hawk that had Duck Egg blue underneath so maybe it was used on ships as well.
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If you consider the ships in their Mediterranean camoflauge colors it is daft... %)
https://trmreviewconnect.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/photoscan-4-800x635.jpg
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Ah! the old dazzle patterns. Not so daft and before the days of radar. It made it harder to see a ship, and once seen, it was hard to tell what kind of ship, making it hard to know its size, therefore distance. Also harder to distinguish the bow and stern, and thence harder to judge the direction of travel; especially from another moving ship.
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If you consider the ships in their Mediterranean camoflauge colors it is daft... %)
https://trmreviewconnect.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/photoscan-4-800x635.jpg (https://trmreviewconnect.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/photoscan-4-800x635.jpg)
You have to love a dazzle scheme!
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My Tiger is done in the grey for the 80's period and at times looks very blue. A good example is HMS Cavalier, at Chatham, the BSI numbers I posted to the other post produce the gray we know now
bob
I used your exact BS numbers when painting a 1/72 Type 45 a few years ago. Very good visual match.
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I once built a plastic RN Sea Hawk that had Duck Egg blue underneath so maybe it was used on ships as well.
I am sure there was more than a little 'cross pollination' between Fleet Air Arm and RN, regarding pots of paint.
The Brave Borderer I referred to is attached. Very nice model and really friendly guy to chat to. He fired up my enthusiasm to get on with my Brave Swordsman conversion...only took me another eighteen months to start too!
Possibly more of a Sky Blue, than Duck Egg, looking at the model. Will do some experimenting next time I am over at Explosion.
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The RN used the pre WW2 Pattern 507C Foreign Stations Light Grey after the war but switched full time to BS 381C 697 Light Admiralty Grey (LAG) in 1955 or 1956. I know an Admiralty Fleet Order was issued in 1955 called “Weatherwork-painting of, on ships in peace time” but I have not been able to find a copy of it. I’d say that was the changeover date as at the same time the RAN switched from 507C to BS381C Light Grey presumably because they didn’t like the new blue grey. The RN used LAG until 1968 when BS381C 676 Light Weatherwork Grey (LWG) was introduced.
Some shots attached of models in LAG & LWG attached including in different lights. LAG changes quite dramatically in various lighting conditions.
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Well, will you look at that! 24 hours or so and all solved. I kind of expected the answer to come from the 'big fleet' on the other side of the world. I have done a quick search for Light Admiralty Grey and found it from at least three different suppliers of 'grown up' paint. So should be able to source it withing three miles of home.
Excellent job, well done chaps :-)) :-))
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I don't know if they still do it but the model railway people, Phoenix Paints, used to do many of the BS381C colours in matt, low sheen and gloss in humbrol sized tinlets up to 250ml cans.
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They have just supplied me with this paint but its a £200 min special order from Phoenix . Specify Matt as there semi is still too glossy
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I used to pick mine up at the Harrogate Show in May from their stand.
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I get the correct colours as i noted above in aerosol from pro aerosols made up and come with your name on them, good price and good service. two cans was more than enough to spray HMS Bristol @82" long plus can of grey for the decks.
And as noted a good match for current colours and not the blue tinge for light admiralty grey, that is seen often
Bob
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http://www.express-paints.co.uk/bs381c-custom-filled-aerosol-400ml/#product-reviews
My local supplier, with a drop down box, with everything you could ever need, including Light Weatherworks and Light Admiralty Greys. Also available as tins to slop it on the model. Also different sheens available. Excellent.
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So the weather, and light, were pretty terrible this morning, but despite this I tried a little experiment.
At Explosion, The Museum of Naval Firepower, over at Gosport, they have a row of naval ordnance in all sorts of colours. Equipped with a hastily knocked up chip chart, I started comparing colours...interesting to say the least.
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First off, a 4.5" Open mounting, probably from a Tribal Class Frigate.
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STWS Triple Torpedo Launcher, first the tube, then the equipment box on the side.
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Goalkeeper CIWS.
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4.5" Mk8 Mounting.
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4.5" Twin Mk6 Mounting. This is the one I was interested in, as it appears to show the Light Admiralty Grey colour. Also there was a part of the lower assembly showing what looked like the more modern grey, overcoated with the older Admiralty Grey. Pity about the poor lighting though.
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So, my conclusions.......I shall be ordering half a litre of Light Admiralty Grey from my paint specialist!! But, it is interesting how dark nearly all of the sample colours look. Humbrol 127 has always been my default recommendation for modern RN vessels, but I have to say, I am swung towards Humbrols new colour 247 RLM76. It has that blue/grey look to it. While my interest in the duck egg blue via Revells 49 Light bLue, would benefit from about 30% white added to it.
Still seems odd that they were nearly all a shade or two darker, but that is the scaling effect I guess.
Incidentally, I am not a rivet counter, although I may coin the description Paint Chip Checker %)
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We had another ship in LAG running on Saturday. Glamorgan shows another side of the colour in the lighting conditions.
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2 points!
1) They may not have been repainted in their original colours.
2) The colour will have altered if it has been in the sun. No paint is immune from the effects of UV light.
I tried the same trick with H.M.A.S Vampire in Sydney and the colours varied from stem to stern. %%
In the end I found a paint can they had been using. :-))
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You are, of course, right on all your points. I am happy with the conclusions that this thread has reached. Also, very grateful for the input from the other side of the world on LAG.
Time to order some paint :-))
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Hi Allan, prior to 1965, there were several shades of colour for warships depending on their service area, the ones in the Persian Gulf were painted a shade of blue for example, the old minitrix model boats had several correct colours on them.
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Hi Allan, prior to 1965, there were several shades of colour for warships depending on their service area, the ones in the Persian Gulf were painted a shade of blue for example, the old minitrix model boats had several correct colours on them.
Sorry Dodo but the RN only had 2 colours used for its surface vessels in 1965. Survey ships were white, everything else was LAG. Have a look at my post of 10th March and you can see how that colour changes in different lighting conditions. In miserable conditions the colour appears as a darker blue colour similar to Triang's going through to a light grey. In a bright Sydney summer sun, it is a pale blue.
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Read my quote I said prior to 1965, because that year a standard grey came in, my elder brother remembered the old Persian gulf blue, also for the coronation fleet review they had a green based grey, which was much liked and some wanted to keep it, as a small boy am sure I saw a Eskimo type frigate come into Chatham painted in the old West Indies colour Buff funnel.
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Read my quote I said prior to 1965, because that year a standard grey came in, my elder brother remembered the old Persian gulf blue, also for the coronation fleet review they had a green based grey, which was much liked and some wanted to keep it, as a small boy am sure I saw a Eskimo type frigate come into Chatham painted in the old West Indies colour Buff funnel.
Sorry Dodes but you are possibly getting confused with 1968 when the current colour, Light Weatherwork Grey, was introduced to replace Light Admiralty Grey.
The Coronation Fleet Review colour was Light Admiralty Grey (LAG). After the review ship’s reverted to the previous Light Grey known as Pattern 507C. Your brother’s Persian Gulf blue would have been LAG which came in to full use in 1955. Before that Gulf ships were white with Light Grey (507C) funnels etc.
The West Indies ships never had buff funnels unless they were a survey ship. You might be thinking of the pre war East Indies colours which were white and yellow.
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And just to add to the confusion regarding Light Weatherworks Grey. I can distinctly remember two Leanders and an early Batch 2 Type 22 up The Trot ( Fareham Creek sort of area ), all awaiting scrapping. In direct sunlight, and forgive me for my Humbrol references, the Leanders were both Humbrol 64, while the '22' was Humbrol 127 ( actually Humbrol 247, but let's not go there :} ). Speaking to an ex-storesman and fellow Mayhemmer, he explained that paint orders were going to the lowest bidder, with colour matching long down the list of requirements...ahh, the free market economy, wasn't like this during the war ;)
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And just to add to the confusion regarding Light Weatherworks Grey. I can distinctly remember two Leanders and an early Batch 2 Type 22 up The Trot ( Fareham Creek sort of area ), all awaiting scrapping. In direct sunlight, and forgive me for my Humbrol references, the Leanders were both Humbrol 64, while the '22' was Humbrol 127 ( actually Humbrol 247, but let's not go there :} ). Speaking to an ex-storesman and fellow Mayhemmer, he explained that paint orders were going to the lowest bidder, with colour matching long down the list of requirements...ahh, the free market economy, wasn't like this during the war ;)
Actually the RN tests all paint on a random base to ensure they comply with the Defence Standard specs but all paint fades over time and the results of salt. They used to trial them on old ships. They used the bridge roof of Plymouth when she was around to see the results on long time wear on proposed new paints. In WW2, they even tested camouflage paints provided by outside suppliers.
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You know I put both Intrepid and Fearless into chains at the top of the harbour prior to departure for razor blades. I remember looking back and both vessels though both painted light grey, had two distinct colours one blue based and the other green based, without seeing them together you would never know. But believe with heavy financial budget cuts the MoD started to order paints nearest to their colour requirements from paint makers to save money by buying paint of the shelve rather than paying extra for small special runs from the manufacturers.
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[size=0pt]I would have thought that as Intrepid sat in death row in Fareham Creek from 1999 having been a spare parts donor for her sister for years and Fearless from 2002, neither would have had any painting undertaken. They were awaiting scrapping, so why paint?[/size]
[size=0pt][/color]In 2006, they both looked reasonable considering their circumstances. It might be my monitor, but neither look green to me.[/size]