Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: raflaunches on March 28, 2018, 08:11:15 am
Title: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: raflaunches on March 28, 2018, 08:11:15 am
For the last couple of days I’ve been having a rather lively debate on a Facebook page about battleships regarding my opinion that Scharnhorst (WW2) was a battlecruiser and not a battleship. As per the rules of the page I kept stating that it was my opinion and I gave references to my arguments. No problems so far. Until we started to define what a battleship is. Almost everyone else used the argument that Dreadnought defined what a battleship is but only kept going on about the all big gun armament. I pointed out that was only one feature of the ship and the steam turbines and other features also made up a Dreadnought otherwise you could describe a monitor as a battleship or the pocket battleships as battleships even though the rules on the page quite clearly said that they were heavy cruisers. Let’s just say that they don’t like me now and got quite angry with me trying to ‘redefine’ was a Dreadnought is even though I was describing what the Dreadnought was and why it was revolutionary! It felt very uncomfortable to be shouted at regarding a subject I know very well, they were literally saying that I didn’t know what I was on about. I did a bit of digging on the Facebook members who didn’t like me using their profiles and discovered that they were people who searched the internet for their information and probably had never read any book on the subject. (Well that’s what their profile information implied!) I sticking to my friends on Mayhem to have discussions with as that was the worst 24 hours on the internet I’ve ever had!!!
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on March 28, 2018, 08:28:17 am
Quote
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.
Welcome back. ok2
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on March 28, 2018, 08:59:36 am
Well Graf Spee was a Pocket Battleship, so its obvious really......................no, carry on. Battlecruiser all the way :-))
Now try telling people that Bismark was just a jumped up WW1 design, that gets people angry!
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: derekwarner on March 28, 2018, 09:01:00 am
Just look at your posting....................9 lines of sentences without any paragraphs :P
This is not your general style of posting........it does however confirm a viral SPIT...this also confirms your frustration at the subject you were discussing
Walk away from fools :-))
Derek
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: raflaunches on March 28, 2018, 09:07:44 am
Hi Derek
You’ve hit it on the head! My grammar has gone to hell! Damn you Facebook! Back to normality. :-))
As I said earlier I’m walking away from those type of people as they seem to be blinded by one feature and can’t stand it when someone like myself points out others. Never mind. You live and learn.
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 28, 2018, 10:21:06 am
Nick, its simply a waste of time arguing with people who are armoured by their own ingnorance. They know they are right because they read it on line and you are therefore wrong. Nothing you can say will shift them as they take it as a personal offence.
And Mark Zuckerberg has harvested your punctuation - will these people stop at mothing?! >>:-(
Some people believe there are fairies at the bottom of the garden, mine are all drowning at the moment with the constant rain... ok2
Colin
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 28, 2018, 11:53:54 am
Hey Nick,
That was me on Facebook, arguing the toss, I was using my a nom-de-plume of RivetCounter or MrKnowitall or Cptn, Arrogant, maybe sir. Dontcare Iamnotlistening, sometimes I use Tony Blair, George Galloway, David Cameron or even Donald Trump.
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Steve Dean on March 28, 2018, 12:09:34 pm
Hey Nick and Martin ....... Never forget when someone asked the late Stephen Hawking ..... Did he think there was intelligent life elsewhere in the galaxy ....... he replied, "I'm still trying to find intelligent life on Earth". {-)
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 28, 2018, 12:24:32 pm
And remember, it is a proven fact that almost half the population is of below average intelligence...
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Bob K on March 28, 2018, 12:49:07 pm
To most members of the general public any ship painted grey is "A Battleship". Except of course to bystanders at Black Park who invariably refer to them as "Army Boats". With discerning knowledge they point to my 1905 HMS Skirmisher (with three ochre funnels) and confidently assert that it is the Titanic. Obviously the number and colour of the funnels is a give-away? (doh!).
My only boat that is reliably identified correctly in my Iggle Piggle boat from In The Night Garden. Documentaries on children's television are a great source of knowledge. {-)
Isaac Asimov once wrote that "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain".
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: FsASTSyd1 on March 28, 2018, 01:12:53 pm
Hi Nick, truly it is never worth getting into an argument with an acolyte of the great god google, for they know that it and they are always right. But if nothing else they can be quite often offer hilarious entertainment. Such as one who spent quite some time describing his impressions of the RAFs first jet fighter - the Spitfire!!! or his no doubt friend who gave his opinions of the best biplane fighter of WW1 illustrated with photographs of triplanes. "Forgive them for they know not what they do or say". Regards Syd J ex RAF
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Stavros on March 28, 2018, 01:46:41 pm
And there i THOUGHT Bismark was an airfix kit mmmm back to the drawing board
Dave
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: raflaunches on March 28, 2018, 02:27:03 pm
Was it on Mayhem where the following was said?:
Never argue with an idiot- they’ll knock you down to their level and then beat you with experience!
Definitely not going to talk to those idiots again- they didn’t even grasp what a debate was- I was just wrong and that was that!
If I want a sensible and intelligent debate I’ll talk to everyone on the Mayhem forum. At least I won’t be insulted. :-))
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Netleyned on March 28, 2018, 02:36:44 pm
Never argue with an idiot- they’ll knock you down to their level and then beat you with experience!
Sounds like Mr Milbourn jem to me 8)
Ned
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: nemesis on March 28, 2018, 02:39:06 pm
That is a quote from that great man "Inertia" nemesis
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Hellboy Paul on March 28, 2018, 03:18:09 pm
My personal favourite....
It is better to say nothing & let the world think you are an idiot than to open your mouth & remove all doubt..
Paul..
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Steve Dean on March 28, 2018, 03:44:14 pm
As I pointed out to someone who heckled me when I was making a presentation ...... the speed of light is faster than the speed of sound ....... which is why some people look really bright - until you hear them speak !
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 28, 2018, 04:52:00 pm
.... so what is the definition of a "British Battleship" Nick? ok2
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: raflaunches on March 28, 2018, 04:57:14 pm
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh %)
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 28, 2018, 05:13:59 pm
{-) {-) {-)
Title: Pointless Interner Aguments...
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 28, 2018, 05:21:36 pm
One a different tack... but sort of related, anyone know anything about a US Monitor class ship visiting England for the first time?
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: raflaunches on March 28, 2018, 05:29:26 pm
Yes it did but not until 1866. It was the USS Miantonomoh but we already had our own ironclads by then. Think they may be over doing the threat it posed though in the video and the forum it was originally from.
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: SailorGreg on March 28, 2018, 06:57:23 pm
Isaac Asimov once wrote that "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain".
Yes, although he was using a quote as the hook for " The Gods Themselves". The quote is from a play by Friedrich Schiller. I had to look that last bit up on the Interweb so I hope I am not becoming a keyboard expert like Nick's ex-mates on that other forum. %%
But I think it might be time to reacquaint myself with Asimov's work. Thanks for the prompt! :-))
Greg
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: ballastanksian on March 28, 2018, 07:39:56 pm
Sadly Nick, we entered the 'Cretinatious' period some decades ago and I presume we will be in it for a while yet.
Look on the bright side, with your creative hands and mind, you out perform the rest of them put together, and find time to assist in keeping our nation safe :-))
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 28, 2018, 07:47:21 pm
Quote
.... so what is the definition of a "British Battleship" Nick?
Quote
A battleship wot was built in Britain although not necessarilly for the RN...
There were lots of battleships before Dreadnought too, HMS Victory is a Line of Battle ship.
Scharnhorst could never have qualified as a battleship, inadequate guns and armour. (Oh, and yes, Bismarck was a jumped up WW1 design!)
Colin
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: raflaunches on March 28, 2018, 07:51:54 pm
:-))
Exactly my argument too but to put it how one them put it:
Battleship=Dreadnought
And how could I forget:
Anything with an all big gun armament is a Dreadnought!
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: tsenecal on March 28, 2018, 08:04:56 pm
i was going to post something here, but i failed to find a way to describe my situation without un-intentionally insulting half the people reading this thread :(
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: raflaunches on March 28, 2018, 08:11:07 pm
Come on tsenecal, we are not going to bite your head off, I’m was just explaining my story of my experience on my earlier debate on a Facebook page. The argument was petty and silly at times but everyone is entitled to their opinion and simply they didn’t like my opinion.
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Klunk on March 28, 2018, 10:48:44 pm
what i dont get is why in real life battleships dont have pegs in them when hit?!?!
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: raflaunches on March 28, 2018, 10:51:51 pm
I didn’t think they made plastic pegs that big! Imagine shouting ‘You’ve sunk my Battleship!’ In the middle of the Atlantic!!! B3- miss!!! ok2
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Jonty on March 28, 2018, 11:26:32 pm
Surely the essence of a battle-cruiser was that it traded armour and guns (number and/or calibre) for speed. The Americans Iowa class, which had the speed of a battle-cruiser and the hitting power of a battleship, rather upsets this theory, though.
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: raflaunches on March 28, 2018, 11:29:29 pm
Well that was part of my understanding too and the argument I gave. I gave the information that in the end the fast battleship made the battlecruiser obsolete in this role which blurred the lines between battleship and battlecruiser but to no avail.
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: mrlownotes on March 29, 2018, 12:39:56 am
I just call 'em all warships. %% :embarrassed: ;D :-)) O0 . C7, D7, E7, F7, glug glug. Sorry Nick ! It's late at night and I'm not thinking in straight lines this time of day.
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: irishcarguy on March 29, 2018, 12:58:53 am
Any of us that work in a trade or profession run into in your experience from time to time Nick & to say it is insulting is putting a mild quote on it. For 60 years of my life I have worked on British cars, mostly the sports models & I have found the world chock block full of experts that tell me on a regular basis that I don't know what I am talking about. ( I am just about to start on my 201 first MGB engine build, I number each one & camshaft specs too) that is not counting Lotus, Mercedes, Triumph, (lots) Ford, And on and on) Usually I can stop them dead when I ask to see an example of their work(they have none , they read it in a book by so & so, so it must be right.This is one discussion or debate you have lost before you started. I just now got off the phone with a customer who all of a sudden wants to use a used Weber & manifold that he picked up somewhere to save money ( he has so far paid $4000.00)( 1275 bug eye & 5 speed) with me on account. He got a very flat No from me & not tactfully. I have stayed away from car forums as I don't have the time or patience to have a useless debate with an "Expert". I have much better things to do with my time than trying to straighten out the "experts" of this world with knowledge it has taken me a lifetime to learn. Mick B. (irishcarguy)
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: RST on March 29, 2018, 01:12:43 am
I tried facebook and de-registered for a number of reasons (poor security, and being bombarded with monstrous amounts of guff) and will never go back again. I use it as a judgement of my friends since: My real friends kept my phone number, street and E-mail address etc. and keep contact. My "phony" friends (quite surprising with some of them) proved themselves when they switched to some form of private communication through facebook only and seem to have ignored any other form of communication ever since*. I'm still somewhat ignorant these days as to why on earth a model forum exists on facebook when there's valid clubs and forums?
*Linkedin seems to be just as bad these days.
Each to their own I guess. The worst thing these days is free speech and granting voting rights to the proles. I don't believe Katie Hopkins or Donald Trump etc. have any right to post the offensive and fake words on-line that they do, but they do and much as they anger me, I don't reply or promulgate. I must admit though, the older I get the more I learn to bite my tongue and try not to jump-in.
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Neil on March 29, 2018, 11:35:14 am
I'm still somewhat ignorant these days as to why on earth a model forum exists on facebook when there's valid clubs and forums? I must admit though, the older I get the more I learn to bite my tongue and try not to jump-in.
I have learned that too, RST, after recent fiasco's on certain sites...........just keep my mind and experience to those who want it, lol.
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: grendel on March 29, 2018, 02:16:21 pm
Expert - Ex used to be- has been spurt- A drip under pressure.
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Baldrick on March 29, 2018, 02:49:06 pm
DesiderataMax Ehrmann Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.and STEER CLEAR OF FACEBOOK
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Netleyned on March 29, 2018, 03:32:10 pm
Model boat forums do not need the crap just posted Ned
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Baldrick on March 29, 2018, 03:36:14 pm
It may be crap to you, but it makes more sense to the cerebral
Title: Re: I’m never doing that again!
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 29, 2018, 03:48:09 pm