Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: birlinn on June 14, 2018, 01:42:41 pm
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Hi;
New to the site, and just started a Mountfleet Sealight kit. My previous build was a scratch built 1:24 scale centreboard R/C schooner, which did get a bit of cover on a certain other, US based, forum.
The first thing I have changed is the lower rudder pivot- such a thin shaft of white metal will not last five minutes. I filed a slot in the rudder leading edge, and soldered in a brass pin. After filing a new slot in the skeg, the pivot now lines up with the rudder shaft and the pintles. Deck next, and I notice no camber, which doesn't seem right. I propose steaming a bit in to the ply, and altering the hatch surround etc. to suit.
Can someone point me to the way to post photos, please?
Phil
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Very few kit models have camber it just adds unnecessary complication to the build for most people I think. To be honest I doubt if most people would notice anyway it only really concerns us purist's in reality.
I find the best way to add a camber is to cut a set of beams with the camber built in. You should also note that the model has more beam relative to the original vessel, this was done by Frank Hinchcliffe to avoid copyright problems.
Nevertheless the model sails very well as it is even in "heavy weather"
LB
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nice to see a Puffer down to its mark, instead of on the waterline with a full cargo of coal showing, nemesis
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Hope mine looks as good and sails as well.
Who made off with the ship's boat?
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the mate has gone for the Beer, nemesis
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whiskey, surely?
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Ruddy spellcheck. and apparently no way of correcting!
WHISKY!
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Back to the build.
Got the deck support strips glued on, and did some measuring.
The hull measures 190 mm internally; the drawing scales about 193, and the printed ply sheet shows 195 mm.
(There do not seem to be pre-cut ply sheets as noted in earlier logs.)
At least it is easier to reduce the width of something, rather than try and add bits!
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Hope mine looks as good and sails as well.
Who made off with the ship's boat?
The missing boat, therein lies a tail.
Basically, it went missing at Colwyn Bay when some blind, 'ol flatulence producer, rammed her when I was taking shelter from aforesaid 'ol flatulence producer not once but trice! And it went over the side never to be seen again; a lot of other damage was done to her as well.
LB
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Back to the build.
Got the deck support strips glued on, and did some measuring.
The hull measures 190 mm internally; the drawing scales about 193, and the printed ply sheet shows 195 mm.
(There do not seem to be pre-cut ply sheets as noted in earlier logs.)
At least it is easier to reduce the width of something, rather than try and add bits!
don't take any notice of measurements taken from the sheets......he always used to print on his plans in bold capitals DO NOT SCALE...
best to build where it fits and where it doesn't, make it fit.....frank wasn't a man to bandy words and lived in a world of his own, bless him and didn't give a fig about people complaining.in his own words he would say if they can't build it, don't buy it...
.plenty who can, will...
.and he was right.
and all those kits that originated with frank haven't I don't think, changed, only the new strain have. I knew him as a friend from the first kit review I did for him, and before...
..and he wasn't a man who would have relished the modern kit basher...
.he'd have been on to his lawyers at the first hint, lol......never to be equalled, he did for modellers and kits what Harrison did for timekeeping...
.he brought the sundial into the modern world as we know it, {-) {-) {-) %% %%
neil
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Thanks, guys.
I'd like to have known Frank!
Now can anyone tell me how to post photos, please?
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Now can anyone tell me how to post photos, please?
Click on "Attachments and other options" below the reply field. You may then attach the photos from your machine, provided they're <=300kB.
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Thanks.
Phil
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Fun ahead!
I have just noticed an apparent twist in the hull- see (hopefully) enclosed pic.
On closer examination, it appears that the bulwarks are not the same height either side of the stern- good job I haven't fixed the quarter deck supports. However, the rudder and skeg were lined up with the top of the stern before I noticed the problem, so will appear at an angle if I file down the port bulwarks. I don't think I can alter the skeg, bit I might try ungluing the rudder post to move that over a tad. I could also file the lower pivot slot a bit, and move that over slightly. Looks obvious now from the photo, but I hadn't noticed.
PS: deck not glued down yet- there is a bit of camber to the cross beams.
Hey Ho!
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From memory, the bottom of the stern post/prop aperture casting should form a continuation of the keel and can be lined up using a steel rule in both planes. It is also wise to make the aperture under the counter a little larger than required, so that you have some "wiggle" room and tack into position with super glue before finally securing with car body filler, this applies to the prop shaft as well.
As for the height of the bulwarks. The deck level is equal to the height of the top of the plating on to which the rubbing strake is secured. That being the case have you measured the distance between the top of the plate and the top of the bulwark on each side? If there is a variance then rub the bulwark down a bit. However, if the distance is the same on both sides then I would suspect there is a problem in the molding. However, don't forget that this kit is the best part of 25 years old now, and the plug might have twisted a little after this time. Don't forget what Neil has said about Frank expecting us to make things fit correctly either.
I hope that I'm not teaching you to suck eggs here, if so then I apologise.
As an aside, Frank Hinchcliffe passed away nearly twelve years ago, I still miss him and the enormous Sunday lunches.
LB
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It is the height of the bulwarks- the port side is nearly 3mm higher than the starboard.
I can't remove the skeg, however the rudder is now off and I am about to try surgery....
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Sorted!
Didn't take long. I unglued the brass tube by heating with a soldering iron; filed the bottom pivot slot to move that end over about 1mm. The top pivot was then filed out, and the brass tube moved over a bit and superglued back in using thick cyano. If you chuck a bit of baking soda on it, it acts as a kicker and you can get quite thick joints.
Just got to get a tiny bit of filler on now to finish tidying up, plus filing the bulwarks down.
From now on, I will not assume anything is correct until checking!
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PS: have done a wee bit of this sort of thing- here's a pic of the last effort, if you are interested. Scratch build plank on frame 1:24 scale model of Mary J Stubbs, an American fishing schooner from 1882. 2 channel R/C; all blocks and tackle work like full size, and there's even a scale working compass to the rear of the cabin. The centreboard is brass, lead filled, and drops down to 90 degrees, although it can be lowered to a scale 30 degrees. The rudder has a telescopic inner section, to be extended for sailing. I got a bit carried away at times.
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Having been distracted with an art workshop over the weekend, I am now back happily hacking away.
I have printed off every photo of Sealight I could find, and have concluded:
The windows to the bridge are far smaller in number and size on the kit plans and printed ply sheets. The real ship had much more glazing.
The kit has no camber to the decks or superstructure, which the original had.
The brackets for the nav. lights are wrong.
The photos in the instructions seem to be more colourful than the real thing- artistic licence?
I will go by the photos of the real thing.
Can anyone tell me what the thing is near the top of the mast? There are four lines going to some object, looking a bit like a bucket, which can be hauled up to a bracket near the top of the mast, and possibly tipped. Far too small, and too flimsy a bracket, to carry much load.
Phil
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A bit of progress-main deck now glued on, but I won't glue the quarter deck until I have installed the motor, servo, etc
I have incorporated a wee bit of camber in the decks; can't do too much or the superstructure will not fit. I think I will be making the bulwark stringer just above the deck from thin aluminium, so I can prod some 'rivets' in; I will glue to thin ply to get the thickness correct.
Next job is cutting the holes for the working wash ports in the bulwarks.
Re previous post- the object on the front of the mast in the photos, I have realised, is the mast-head light. It's size had me puzzled until I looked at the plan. Doh!
Still looking for a decent 6v smoke generator- does anyone do one?
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How about this one (https://www.harbormodels.com/har350-6.html)?
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Many thanks.
Looks good, but a bit pricey, and I would prefer buying one from the UK if possible,
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Been having a look at the wash port covers and other white metal bits in the kit.
I don't like the working wash ports provided, but I do want working ones. I plan to make small brass hinges to allow the fixed ones to work.
Other bits I will replace are the shroud bottle screws and their fixing straps- far too flimsy. I have some working brass bottle screws left over from scratch building, so that one is easy. I also have some working blocks which will replace the white metal ones.
The bridge will be totally altered, with the correct glazing, and planking, rather than scribed ply.
Now to put theory in to practice.....
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Bulwark strip with rivets, ready to be glued to thin ply. The pic is quite a bit bigger than the strip.
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Many thanks.
Looks good, but a bit pricey, and I would prefer buying one from the UK if possible,
You could buy one of the readily available ones in the UK and get a 6v converter to take it up to the required voltage.
:-))
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I have missed your last couple of posts for some reason. However, you have to remember that when building a Mountfleet model that are not meant to be "accurate" scale models of an individual vessel, more of a representation of the that vessel and it is up to the builder to put their own interpretation into it.
Artistic License. Oh yes, very much so! Wash Ports, I used the ones in the kit, but left a small gap at the bottom for drainage; I think your hinges will eventually size up but a good idea nonetheless.
The bottle screws on the mast are indeed a weak point and it's something I have to attend to.
The blocks are Ok but the holes need to be opened up using a small drill in a hand vice, lubricated by white spirit. I've never used the "rope" in the kit as I have some scale rope, for the standing rigging I use black carpet type thread which can be found in most haberdashers shops. The treads should of course be pulled through the block of bees wax supplied, before installing.
I found some pictures of the Sealight in the scrapyard at Troon and it was obvious that the bridge structure was not high enough, so I've increased height by around 10% or so.
I've attached some pictures of the Franks workshop model and my example.
A very nice model of that schooner BTW.
LB
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Mine.
LB
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Or make a metal lum and use smoke pellets for real smoke, but only grey or white >:-o that I know of but lots of it.
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Hi Liverbudgie;
Thanks for the pics of your Sealight- definitely looks nearer the real thing, and a super model.
Today I have ben fixing the first frames to the bulwarks, and found out that if you follow the spacing shown on the kit drawing, the frames come in the middle of the wash ports!
Not the most straightforward of builds, but fun sorting out the discrepancies.
Where did you find the pics of Sealight at the breakers? I've only found about five photos so far on line.
Phil
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Phil,
Here is a link: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=clyde+puffer+sealight&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=gZmCe-HczTUuCM%253A%252CKpRhMZlvruF9KM%252C_&usg=__AVqIRpRfZDIAKpHHRAspPYpAzvM%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ_8TJ6OfbAhUKXhQKHfgkBAUQ9QEIWzAB#imgrc=_&spf=1529689274427
If you scroll through you will find some shots of her, one of which is new too me as well as shows her with an open bridge.
The answer to the framing problem is to move the wash ports about until they match. BTW the black thread is Linen tread, couldn't think of the name before.
LB
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Thanks, LB; I had printed off all the ones that Google comes up with.
The one with the open bridge I thought at first might be the very similar Sealight 1, of 1907 (p. 52 0f 'Light in the Glens', by Len Paterson) but although she had an open bridge, she had both the engine room vents the same height.
There is also a good photo of the 1930 Sealight on p. 2 of 'Puffers', by Guthrie Hutton.
As I had already filed out the wash ports, the frames got shuffled a bit, but look OK. I suspect that the drawing does not show the correct frame spacing anyway. Pity Frank didn't make the handed sets of frames mentioned in the instructions.
One side done; I'll post a pic when the capping is on.
Phil
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Bulwark framing completed one side- now to see if I can make a match with the starboard side. I replaced the shroud plates with brass, and will fix the brass bottle screws to them with 16BA brass bolts.
I have also had a go at making the wash port covers hinged like full size; the left hand hinge got a bit off-centre. Must do better with the next ten hinges!
One thing is niggling- the top of the bow should have a very shallow curve, rather than the straight line and more sudden curve of the kit hull. I think I might leave it, as adding a bit may not be very strong- there is no capping at this point.
I tried hard to get the bulwark capping fairing in to the bow stringer.
Phil
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Sorry to but in, a Puffer looks a completely different beats when down to the Plimsoll / full water line! :o
(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=60986.0;attach=186014;image)
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Great thing! I am in final preparations phase for Sealight build! Planning my electronics now.
For smoke generator - I am going to use this idea in my build
http://www.wicksteedparkmbc.com/smoke-generator.html
Just a few euros. I got all components here by now, and made a test run - works wonders. With Arduino and a PowerMosfet, I can control the RPM of the blower fan proportionally to the speed setting.
I am also in progress of designing my own board computer for the Sealight, based on Orange Pi. Sound management (Steam engine sound prop to speed, radio effect with different sound tracks from the late 30es, horn, background sounds like seagulls, captain orders and crew's "Aye Aye" when doing some actions), pump management (sensor driven "rescue pump" and a bilge water effect pump proportional to speed), maybe also taking over the steam engine, and also adding unlimited extra channels by using LORA network module (and LORA-Equipped Arduino Mega as sender for those extra channels)
Camera installation is now also being tested on my other boat, Aquacraft Bristol Trawler
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A bit more progress; although the deck has a bit of camber, it's not very noticeable.
I have decided not to bother detailing the hatch boards, as they will all be under the tarpaulin. I can't see the logic of having the tarp and a few boards off if the ship is going to be under way.
The motor, radio and other gear have now arrived, so the next job is to work out the installation. The 6v battery weighs about 2kg; does anyone know the total weight of ballast to bring her down to her lines? I suspect quite a lot!
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My measurement was around 8 kilograms... depends alot how deep you want her down...
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Many thanks, Petros.
I will have to start scrounging a bit more scrap lead!
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I picked 10kg lead from ebay from a shooting stand owner (melted down bullets ;) ) for my build. Bars of around 20cm x 3cm x 1.5cm, between 980g and 1020g. For my previous build, I sourced lead from the car repair shop, 12 kilograms of used tyre weights.
In my build, which is still in planning, I aim to put a rail and tray system. T-nut rail guide would be glued in (a 5-rail aluminium curtain rail cut to length, around 10 cm wide, sourced from the junkyard, takes an M8 nut or a regular t-nut piece), and electronic tray, lead battery (I got 12V 12 Ah one), and lead bars would be trayed and then screwed on the rail. This way, I can easily trim the things, and also change trim any time I wish.
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May I suggest using gold instead of lead. It may be a wee tad more expensive, but on the plus side it needs considerably less room inside your hull due to its massive density, allowing for a lower mass centre :}
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Gold, hmm - it would be a treasure ship! If someone builds a pirate ship - you are in trouble.
Better to use plutonium or so, much more weight, and EVERYONE would keep far away
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A few more hours, a bit of progress.
I will be fitting the tarpaulin hatch cover, so I haven't bothered detailing the hatch boards. Photos of full size puffers do not seem to show bumps for the lifting rings below the tarps, so I won't bother with them either.
I presume tarpaulins were made up from narrower strips sewn together- anyone know the likely width?
Next step is making support frames for the motor, servo and battery, however I think I will try and get my 1926 car running again over the coming week.
Too many toys, too many projects!
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possibly a yard/metre wide. nemesis
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Could be 54 inch wide. Friend of mine had a chandlery firm and the size of his sewing machine was rather large, all for sewing tarps. nemesis
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PM sent. nemesis
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Had another go at that wash port cover- I wasn't happy with one of the hinges.
I had a right struggle, as I have no low-melt solder for soldering white metal, and kept melting bits.
A bit better now- it will have to do.
I will have to be more accurate with the next five.
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Hi Phil
Surprized you tried soldering small white metal bits!
My Puffer is 32 scale and has slightly different washport covers which were meant to be just glued on, so my technique using bits of stainless steel (from hypodermic needles) epoxied in place won't be any help to you - but might give you some food for thought.Here's the link
« Reply #210 on: 05-04-2013, 20:10:57 »
While Photobucket have relented (briefly) the pictures can be seen but not videos.
Ironically I have not bothered (as yet!) to fit the covers over the ports.
Because of the Photobucket fiasco, I have abandoned adding to my build log - but you must keep up with yours, it's proving really interesting already!
Regards, Mike
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Getting ready to fix the motor in- now where did I put those 6 BA nuts and bolts?
One worry- I am using the kit rudder, which is white metal. I have replaced the bottom pivot with a brass rod; at the moment I will be retaining the top rudder shaft. In addition to the grubscrew, I intend to cyano the bellcrank to the shaft. As it will be difficult to access this once the quarter deck is fixed, I am worried that a knock or two on the rudder may shear the shaft, and leave me with a big problem.
What have you other builders done, please?
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In addition to the grubscrew, I intend to cyano the bellcrank to the shaft. As it will be difficult to access this once the quarter deck is fixed, I am worried that a knock or two on the rudder may shear the shaft, and leave me with a big problem.
What have you other builders done, please?
That's essentially what I would do. My rudder linkage is scantly accessible by way of a small opening. This is why I didn't glue the bellcrank but I did use some loctite to secure the grubscrew as you may or may not see here (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,57420.msg606354.html#msg606354).
If you're gonna use glue, just be sure to use an appropriate glue for the materials and use a clean cloth with ethanol to free the parts from dust and oil before applying the glue.
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I think I will be using a thinner wire for the rudder pushrod, with an omega shape in the middle to give it some springiness- that way, if the rudder gets knocked, there is not so much force on the shaft.
Spent yesterday casting the first 2kg piece of ballast- will need about another 4kg.
Today I have planked up the foredeck; the winch base is just tack glued, and I will remove it to paint it.
I am waiting for some 6BA bolts before I can mount the motor- I had a box full of all sorts of small bolts, but I haven't seen it since I moved 12 years ago. Must pop over to the mainland and see if I can get some suitable paints too. The planking will eventually be weathered down a bit.
Phil
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First bits of the wheelhouse; the kit pieces are rather inaccurate, as the windows are far too small.
I don't think I will get anywhere Banjoman's standards- it rather depressed me to look at perfection!
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Looking good to me. I like the twin color paint job!
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Paint? what paint? ok2
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Beautiful work! :-))
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One of those days when it is best to give up.
Spent the morning making the sides of the wheelhouse; sat back and realised I had made two identical starboard sides.
Doh!
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Ah, crap. But $hit like that happens. Don't let it get you down. Consider it practicing for making the real thing :-))
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Technical question re. puffers: the hatches have boards round the edges that, with wedges, are used to secure the tarpaulins. Are these boards timber or metal?
Phil
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A bit more progress with the wheelhouse; windows yet to be glazed. I am not sure how to hinge the door; 1/32 scale is a bit small for hinges. Might be pintles top and bottom; I have yet to decide.
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Technical question re. puffers: the hatches have boards round the edges that, with wedges, are used to secure the tarpaulins. Are these boards timber or metal?
Phil
Usually flat steel bar's, if that's the correct term, the thick end of the wedge would or should face forward.
LB
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Thanks, LB.
Windows now glazed, and roof dropped on temporarily. I am annoyed at the odd glue smear on the glazing- I know you can get model aircraft canopy glue, but no model shops near, and on-line isn't very quick.
Now to tackle the inside details.
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and the rear:
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Some artistry and the smear becomes super-detailing......seagull droppings :D
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A bit out of focus, but the home made hinge is only 5mm x 1.5 mm.
Door interior yet to be painted.
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This is shaping up as a new MasterClass for Mayhem!
Great work Phil. :-))
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The masterclass was by Banjoman.
I'm just Bodgerman.
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Door hung on working hinges- not sure it would stand flapping around in a force 8 though. The model will be of the ship in the early 60's- the skipper must have a pal in the local garage, because he has the Pirelli calendar on the back of the door. If only he knew what that would be worth in 50 years time!
All of the wheelhouse scratch built so far.
The roof is just dropped on loosely.
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the skipper must have a pal in the local garage, because he has the Pirelli calendar on the back of the door. If only he knew what that would be worth in 50 years time!
But only if it's still clean and not... sticky, if you catch my drift. ;) Nice touch, though! :-)
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But only if it's still clean and not... sticky, if you catch my drift. ;) Nice touch, though! :-)
Lol thats wrong :}
Great detail I love the working hinges :-)) :-))
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A bit more progress- the bits and bobs are ready to be glued inside the wheelhouse.
If anyone wants to be picky, the blue and yellow chart, of Mull of course, is a few years too late to be in period! Looks better than the old black and white Admiralty charts though. And if anyone is really picky, the Pirelli calendar is two years too late.
I photographed one of my own charts, and printed it off at passport size- turned out this was exactly 1/32 scale. I then added 2mm all round, and got a size for the chart table. After I had finished this, I had the horrible thought- will it fit across the side of the wheelhouse?
It did, with 1/2 mm clearance at the ends- how's that for luck!
The Skipper worried me- matt paint does not look too convincing for cloth. I painted the blue, and then dusted talcum powder over the wet paint- looks better.
Looking at the photo, I have just noticed that the little brass makers nameplate has dropped off the binnacle- out with the glue again!
Phil
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Wheelhouse now finished- there's even a joint in the meat safe for the skipper's Sunday roast.
One step further on...
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Very nice woodwork Phil :-)) .... a little salt spray dust for aging? O0
Assuming the navigation lights would have been oil lamps, did they just sit in their shelf binnacles during the day & be hoisted up on dusk?
Derek
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Hi Derek;
I will weather things down a bit once the build is completed.
I have located five photos of Sealight, obviously taken in daylight- three show the lamps in situ, two no lamps. I guess it depended on the crew.
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A few more bits done- the major bits are not glued together yet, as they will be painted first. Looking a bit more like a ship at last.
The bulwark capping is wrong where it meets the quarter deck; that's the next job. The wheel house roof is only dropped on loosely.
Wish I had a bigger workbench- that's it, in a corner of the garage.
Phil
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A bit more progress- that's the superstructure finished.
Now to install the electric motor- I've been waiting weeks for the correct coupling, which has arrived at last.
I think my archaeological training must have kicked in- I seem to have started at the top and worked downwards!
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I might have to replace the eyes on the funnel for the stays- they are thin white metal, and the slightest knock on a stay bends them down. I was wondering why there was a slack stay in the photo. It will need careful surgery to replace them with hard brass wire.
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I use the eyes cut off fishing hooks, you can get then any size and are as cheap as chips. Good for deck eyes, mast rigging eyes etc. :-))
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Good idea- thanks, Bri.
Phil
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Your most welcome :-))
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I think someone else posted the Sodt's law that a photo will always appear showing details you have got wrong, just after you have finished them.
In my case, it's the engine room skylight. I noticed from photos of Sealight that the Mountfleet drawings gave the wrong profile in side elevation, and corrected this. Now I find that the thing should be much wider than shown on the plan. Too late- it's all fitted, darn it.
I don't suppose anyone else will notice, but it sure annoys me.
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And a bit more done. Yet to replace the eyes for the funnel stays- one has broken off already. Fish hooks now bought- just waiting for some new collets for the Dremel.
She will look better with the tarps fitted over the hatch.
Phil
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HI This model was dry brushed and washes applied to create a dirty look but the wood deck has changed shades over the years due to the sun.
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Looks very realistic, Stan- I love the cat and the seagull! Mind you don't lose those hammers over the side.
What did you use for the washes?
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I managed to remove the white metal stay eyes on the mast, and replace them with fish hook eyes without too much drama.- much more robust. Quarter deck now fixed and painted.
I am racking my brains on how to fix the removable superstructure down to the quarter deck, without things being too conspicuous. I may try ungluing one of the bunker hatch boards, and having some sort of concealed screw fixing beneath it. The board could be then held with a small magnet, or even a dab of blue tack.
Anyone any ideas, please?
Phil
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I made my superstructure a push fit on a tall upstand it never came loose when sailing Bill ...
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The upstand is about 20 mm. I'll see if I can glue shims in- it will not need much.
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I used some 1/64" ply to make shims, and the superstructure is now a tight push fit.
The stern area is finished; the main hatch will be next, and needs 42 wooden wedges. The kit tarpaulin is a bit of a bright green, so I will put a wash over that before fixing. I am still picking up courage to put washes over the hull and superstructure- I intend to add a small amount of weathering, but a long way short of the 'rust everywhere' type.
Can you see the Sunday roast in the meat safe?
Phil
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Fantastic work!
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Agree, good workmanship. Re the shims, they may need removal when the wood gets wet, they will swell even if painted. Thin metal alloy from a cola or beer "tin" would be better perhaps. Wooden clothes pegs a source of wedges, save a lot of cutting ?? Pair of kippers in the meatsafe more likely {-) I have a copy of the February 2003 Marine Modelling International with Jim Pottinger`s 8 page Puffer supplement if you want free photo-copies PM me with postal address.
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Two sizes of clothes pegs, smaller ones from stationers sometimes pound shops. Might save a lot of sawing.
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Hi Arrow;
The clothes pegs could work, but I don't think there would be any less sawing. I am cutting the wedges from 3.2mm square timber- three cuts or so give me two wedges.
The roof of Sealight seems to be white in the photos I have- was probably painted canvas.
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"Ach man she`ll be looking like a Chentilmaan`s yat" as a certain Skipper would say. I wonder about the soot, coal dust and grime a light colour wouldn't last too long after painting. Dont forget that Sealight was figment of the designer`s imagination, a simplified model kit. I would have changed the name too. I`ll get Jim Pottinger`s review off Thursday.
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Agreed the kit is not very accurate, but I am going by the photos of the actual Sealight wherever they differ from the kit, and trying to make a more accurate model. Hence the scratch built wheel house, and quite a few other mods.
Phil
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Lovely old image in the mist/smog? Phil......why is she flying the N for November or No flag in the foremast? or is there an earlier explanation code for this? ... Derek
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What a great photograph, on the Clyde in Glasgow city centre I think, could be Greenock. When the big ships could come all the way in. Wonder what that one is in the background ? White/light roof on wheelhouse right enough. :o No idea what flag signal means.
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The Anchor vessel in the background is either the Circassia, Caledonia or Cilicia.
LB
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Where do you reckon Budgie , Glesca, Broomielaw ?
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Weathering washes applied, and tarpaulins secured.
Wash port doors next.
I made the ladder from timber- I didn't like the white metal one in the kit.
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Now fixed the working wash port doors.
I seem to be working forrards, so the punt (dinghy) is next, and I am not sure what to do. All the photos seem to show it lashed to the hatch covers right way up. The GRP kit moulding is quite thick, and has very visible glass mat on the inside. To try and cover it with the scale clinker on the inside isn't easy, particularly at the stem and stern. Also it would give an even thicker hull.
If only it had been vac formed!
My old art school in Lincoln had an ideal vac forming rig, but there seem to be none around here. I was thinking of using the GRP hull as a basis for vac forming- might have to try a home-made rig.
Does anyone do small one offs by post? It's only about 130mm long.
Phil
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After pondering for a bit, I think I will scratch build the punt, with shell built strakes.
The build is going a bit too quickly!
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Here we go!
Spent 1 1/2 hours making the moulds, the transom, and the keel- now to start planking.
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Planked, and first coat of primer now dry.
Ribs, stringers, transoms and knees to follow. Will need a bit of sanding down, but not too bad for 3 1/2 hours work.
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Finished the tender, apart from stowing the rowlocks; these will not be in their sockets.
Will get back to the puffer build again, after this diversion.
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Should have included something to give an idea of scale, like this....
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Wonderful work. Stunning. Congratulations.
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Did you use the Klammerlander(sp) method to do the dingy? That is to soak the planks in a little water and attaching to the frames using superglue and a soldering iron; also works a treat when shaping thin lengths of timber as well.
LB
P.S. I've just tried to google him but there is no sign of him. I met him at the Dortmund Show some years ago, so perhaps all those massive ice creams we had have court up with him.
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Built shell first over moulds; frames added later. The soldering iron technique works very well for shaping bamboo too- I used to use it for forming fin outlines etc for scale model planes.
I am never 100% happy with the results- should have given it a bit more sheer, and increased the frame spacing slightly from the scale 8" to about 10".
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Hinged wash port doors fixed, and ship's boat lashed down. Now having fun with the winch- a bit of a Chinese puzzle.
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Winch finished and fixed. Still got to weather the deck planking a bit- however- I have just realised that I will almost certainly have to bend and re-fix the steam inlet pipe, as it will foul the mast tabernacle. Doh!
I struggled a bit with the build, and had to do a bit of taking apart and refixing, particularly with the width of the winch drum. Of course I then found Martin's winch build info on here, and realised he had had exactly the same problems. Doh! again.
You will note that I have added guards over the exposed gearing- all the puffer photos from the 1950's onwards show them in place.
Also I have restricted the colour scheme from that in the kit photos- I can find no evidence for Ross and Marshall using green paint anywhere but the starboard light box. The winch drum is loose on the shaft at present so I can wind on the line.
Phil
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Nearly there- just the boom, rigging and anchors now. I will probably replace the dinghy- the rib spacing annoys me every time I look at it.
Phil
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Next snag: the exhaust pipe from the steam winch.
If the pipe runs parallel to the centreline (and mine does, because I have fixed it, including passing through the hull), it is just where the socket for the anchor derrick (davit?) needs to be. It looks wrong moved to one side, so I shall make up some sort of bridge to allow the socket to be over the pipe.
Probably totally non-authentic, but needs must be.
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Following from the above, close scrutiny of the photos gives the reason. The triangular gusset on the top of the bow in the kit is quite large, and includes a socket for the davit, fairly near the centreline..
The actual ship has a much smaller gusset, with a separate socket for the davit further out to starboard, so no collision with the pipe.
Can't change things now.
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As you say Phil.....all probably academic
1. I could not see Pipe Fitters of olde laying three x 90 degree bends in the exhaust pipe just to clear the swivel socket for the davit arm as it is only for winching up the anchor [rope]......so a simple hoop bridge with the swivel mounted on axis would appear sound
2. If there were no mounting hoop bridge in the Pipe Fitters Plan set, then the exhaust pipe could have been layed off axis as this would also make the physical point of exhaust from the hull an easier task being away from the centreline of the hull to either port or stdb
This is also based on the assumption that the steam winch was overboard exhausting & not a steam exhaust return condensation system
3. A third point is that exhaust steam in these systems would provide sufficient heat buildup in the exhaust line to cause a rubber booted foot a severe burn. From this, wrapping insulation cord over the exhaust line would not be out of place
4. The actual insulation for the time period probably would have been Asbestos lagging, painted with a sealer then a tinplate shield over the OD and around the bends. Being in the fwd location would have been subjected to quite an amount of water over the bow. This shielding would have necessitated regular maintenance to maintain any insulation integrity
So for us modellers, the cotton string sometimes lagged with filler & painted white may not be absolutely prototypical >>:-( but is our best bet :-))
Derek
PS...it is a little difficult to tell from your photographs, but yes the davit is off axis to the stdb side, as is the exhaust pipe....we also see a locker on the stdb side that could house the anchor rope.......does the davit height clear the ventilator on the port side?...is the ship depicted with one anchor on the stdb side only?....certainly that foredeck on the stdb side could be busy
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The davit on the original ship was outboard of the starboard anchor hawse, so much further over.
I think I, and a few other builders, have made one slight mistake- the steam exhaust follows the sheer of the deck. I suspect it would have had a fall to allow condensate to drain. Too late!
I don't think the exhaust was insulated.
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Demolition!
The more I looked at the bow area, the more it annoyed me. Today I ripped off the bow gusset piece (in a wooden boat I would call it the breasthook), and the fairleads either side.
I will replace with a much smaller gusset, and move the davit over.
The bow ventilator looks a bit big, but I will leave it, as if I try to remove it, it will only mess up the deck planking. In later life, Sealight seems to have lost it.
The forepeak cabin seems to have had a stove, but on the model there is not enough room between the winch and the companionway for the stove pipe, so I will have to omit that bit.
I just wish the kit was more accurate- it is a bit too annoyingly 'generic' rather than a scale model of Sealight.
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That's better! Spot the difference.
Davit moved over to correct position. Now on with bottle screws (working) and rigging- will be using working blocks in place of the white metal kit ones. One worry is the strength of some of the white metal components, such as the mast-head light bracket. Will have to handle carefully.
Have also made a second, longer ladder, just visible.
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As I have been working on the model in the unheated garage, and as today is the usual Wet Coast of Scotland drizzle, I brought her in to the house.
I had just fitted the shrouds and forestay; within minutes of meeting the warmer less humid air, all were slack.
Start again!
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The forepeak cabin seems to have had a stove, but on the model there is not enough room between the winch and the companionway for the stove pipe, so I will have to omit that bit.
I just wish the kit was more accurate- it is a bit too annoyingly 'generic' rather than a scale model of Sealight.
Hi Birlin,
In Sealight all the crew accommodation was to the stern not like the 66ft Puffers which were in the forecastle so therefore there would be no stove pipe chimney up front.
If you are trying to build to full scale I would question the hinged tabernacle to allow the mast to be lowered, as there was no need for these larger 86ft boats to come up the Clyde into the City so no need to negotiate the bridges over the river. The 66 ft boats had hinged masts as they came right up to the Broomelaw in the heart of the city to unload sand and gravel which meant that they had to come under 3- bridges.
Also the Puffers had life boats with lockers all around and under the seats and were very heavy, about 16 - 18 ft long boats not like the lightweight boat that you have made but then your boat may have had one as you have portrayed.
Please note that my observations are not criticising your build
Congrats on a fine model your skill at building is to be appreciated.
George.
Here is a pic of one that I copied for my steam driven SKYLIGHT, I think these boats were called deep sea life boats.
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Sorry, but I have four photos showing the stove pipe, one with smoke issuing from it. Two of the photos show the companionway lid opened.
The pipe can be clearly seen in my post #90.
In 1930, when Sealight was built, it was normal to have the crew accommodation in the forepeak.
The Ship's boat was often known as the punt. I will be making another one, as it is not very accurate.
The hinged tabernacle is shown on the Harald Underhill drawing, which is also a wee bit more accurate than the Mountfleet one
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Sorry, but I have four photos showing the stove pipe, one with smoke issuing from it. Two of the photos show the companionway lid opened.
The pipe can be clearly seen in my post #90.
In 1930, when Sealight was built, it was normal to have the crew accommodation in the forepeak.
Hi Phil,
You are quite correct in that the mast was hinged but I am a bit suspicious of the white upright at the bow in the pic, one of the problems with Puffers is that there were rarely two made identical so it's hard to compare.
There was a previous puffer Sealight which had an open bridge and was broken up in 1930, and here engines removed and installed in the new boat , ( http://puffersandvics.org/Sealight2.htm ) which shows the old boat with a companion way on the Starboard side but no chimney, neither is there one at the stern, there is no info on the size of the original but I would imagine that it was a 66ft boat and if so the crew would be quartered in the bow. [size=78%]( [/size][/size][size=78%][/size]http://www.clydemaritime.co.uk/Sealight ) in one of the pics it shows the stern and the doors to the crew accommodation shown with the black chimney clearly shown but there doesn't appear to be any chimney at the bow, could it be that the companion way shown on other pics that the space was used as a storage locker for ,say anchor and ropes?[size=78%][/size][size=78%][/size][size=78%] [/size]
[/size]
[/size]In your build you have left out the chimney at the bow and if it was me I would leave at as such.[size=78%]
[/size]It's very difficult to get any definitive info on the old boat and the new bigger one that you are building but you are making a great job of your build.Hope this helps a bit,George.[size=78%]
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Thanks, George; I had those photos.
I believe the flue pipe is visible in the first photo; the bow shot may show a darker flue, partly hidden by the mast tackle. I think I can see smoke from it... The flue to the stern is probably hidden by the lum.
I do however have two or three more shots that show the flue pipe; Dan Macdonald's 'The Clyde Puffer' has a small pic on p17, and Guthrie Hutton's 'Puffers' has a shot on p2.
Sealight 1 appears on p 52 of Len Paterson's 'Light in the Glens' and is clearly a Crinan size boat.
The bow shot you included as the second photo I believe to be Sealight 2, with the wheelhouse removed. The engine room ventilators were both the same height on Sealight 1, but differed on Sealight 2. There appear to have been two separate wheelhouses fitted during Sealight 2's history, as details differ.
There are a few bits on my model I am leaving, as there are no definitive details; the end plates to the stern water tank appear to differ on two or three of the pics, so I am leaving the kit ones.
I have been hacking things around a bit today anyway; although I reduced the height of the companionway from that shown in the kit, it was still too high, and had a too steeply pitched roof, so that has been replaced. It may also have been a bit wide, hence the lack of room for the flue, but it would mess up the deck planking to make a narrower one. I was not happy about the ventilator to the forepeak either- that looked too big too, and has also been replaced with a rather nice cast brass one I found in the spares box.
I am now waiting for some black florist's wire to arrive; I am replacing all the kit's white metal blocks with 6 or 8mm working timber and brass ones. The wire is ideal for making the straps and eyes, as it doesn't need further painting.
Phil
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Just noticed the flue pipe is shown on the Underhill drawings.
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Nearly there!
Just the running rigging now, plus wiring up the radio gear.
The companionway and forepeak ventilator have been replaced; I think I will have to omit the stove flue pipe.
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Again,all looking very tidy :-)) ...we see the stdb side anchor on the deck & the davit to lift it into the water. We also see chain disappearing into the chain locker
Is there a chain hauling pinion on the cargo winch for this?...or was the anchor just lifter bite by bite? >>:-(
Derek
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There is a chain hauling pinion on the main winch shaft, nearer the drum. How accurate the winch is I know not; it was built as per kit, with the guards over the gear wheels added.
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Oh good....I suspect the anchor & studded chain would be free wheeling for 'paying out' & having a winch 'hauling in' direction only
Certainly having the anchor & studded chain on deck & the davit hand/rope winch on the stdb side to lift the anchor over the deck & bulwark is a throwback from larger sailing ships
There are further design heritages here with the anchor & davit on the starboard side [originally larboard] which was the opposite to the port side so vessels berthing were port side to.......the port wharf or jetty
Further readings will confirm the vessels on Contracted blue metal haulage, had the port side deck way & bulwark rails heavily peppered by spillage of the blue metal out of the buckets from continual discharge over the port side
Derek
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This is something that puzzles me, also with my Imara.
Why would you want to haul the anchor over the bulwark on deck in the first place, anyway? Why not just let it hang in there in its hawse pipe?
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Evening Dom...... certainly did not realize that this still occurred on the Imara
With the advent of steam winches, for larger vessels there is absolutely no logical reason apart from tradition or security?
The other possible reason is in those same earlier days of steam winches, hauling in a link studded chain and the subsequent tension of the chain or slackness would have resulted in progressively heavier anchors crashing against the hawser opening in the hull. Many vessels display double reinforced or 'doubler plates' around the chain hawser
Today's 100,000 ton vessels have massive cast steel 'doubler plates' welded into the hull and the anchors are hauled in and housed against hydraulic relief valve presets so the anchors are secure....and then additional mechanical securing of the chain is made prior to sea
We are getting a little off the track........however security of the housed anchor on the deck is still probably the answer ;)
Derek
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I don't think the puffers needed to anchor very often in their trips round the Hebrides- they were usually at a pier, parked on a beach, or on a mooring.
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Finished!
Apart from wiring up the radio gear, and as I will not try sailing her until the Spring, no hurry.
Another project needed....
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A model boat is never finished.... but a great job so far! ok2
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I know- just looking at the pics, and thinking of putting a bit of stain on those working wooden blocks. The flue to the forepeak should be a bit higher.
And I probably will build a better ship's boat- I am not happy with that one.
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Sheeee's a bee-youtie O0
Can't wait to see her sailing the seven seas.
Dom
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Phil,
A really nice model, it captures the look of the 85`ft boats, I hope when ready you don't have a hernia with the weight required to get her down to her waterline.
My model of the 66 ft boat at 1/2"- 1 ft, had to have a great deal of lead ballast as well as the steam plant to get it to sit correctly on the water.
I hope that you are surviving the weather coming in from the Atlantic, never mind tomorrow it's to be deck chairs and sun block.
George.
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I got around to scratch building another ship's boat, with better rib spacing.
Also stained the blocks, and raised the stove flue.
Not perfect, but I'm a bit happier.