Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail R&D: => Topic started by: rob on July 20, 2018, 08:54:29 AM

Title: Genoa on a model.
Post by: rob on July 20, 2018, 08:54:29 AM
heres a question for the experts.
I know Robbie did a roller reefing genoa set for the Atlantis, but I've never seen one on anything else.


Now that his sorted Koh-I-Noor has been sold, ( with redesigned suit and winged keel) my mate is looking for a genoa set up on something a bit racier.


Has anyone tried/failed/succeeded with such a set up ?
Has it been trialled and deemed a failure for a model ?


Your comments would be greatly appreciated before I spend lots of his money experimenting !
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: C-3PO on July 20, 2018, 09:30:33 AM
Hi Rob,
Whilst I have no direct experience of this I was interested in your topic so hit Google - I simply searched on "genoa on model yacht"

Looks like quite a lot if info available

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtlaIHy1sFs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBkOv2OR-ls

and one closer to home http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1685.0

Will be very interested to follow your exploits in this area

C-3PO
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: tigertiger on July 21, 2018, 03:06:09 AM
***Topic split***
Roycv flying jib question is now here http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,61262.0.html
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: rob on July 24, 2018, 07:59:45 AM
Thanks C3,
I've had an email back from the makers of the Sprinta RC model from Germany. Prices and specs are typically German, but they do seem to have it sorted. No details to enable anyone to copy their ideas of course other than the mention of a 'computer controlled ' winch.
I would certainly like to play with this one, I'm hoping my customer will go for the £700 option !

Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: C-3PO on July 24, 2018, 08:34:03 AM
Hi Rob,

http://www.ramoser.de/home_d/sprinta_rc_d/sprinta_rc_d.html (http://www.ramoser.de/home_d/sprinta_rc_d/sprinta_rc_d.html)

That got my attention!!! - what a great looking model.

(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/07/24/SprintaRC002.jpg)

(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/07/24/SprintaRC001.jpg)

Looks like this model has a big following in Europe - I wonder why it's not is the UK or is it?

(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/07/24/SprintRC003.png)

I would love to have any additional info you find - I have hit Google to try and find more details - Search "Sprinta RC" in Google and then hit images tab - loads of pics

Found some video on uTube - Great looking models - I wondered what the boom was @ 1:10 in the video - very thick - wondered if this was some type of furling sail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbKAoqc0El8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbKAoqc0El8)

Google translate on the video description = "1: 6 model of Sprinta Sport, the Sprinta RC - successful and sustainable class. Standard with Genoa system. www.ramoser.de (http://www.ramoser.de)"

This  video description - "original promo video" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05945XVmzeI&t=51s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05945XVmzeI&t=51s)

And this re "Computer Control" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEBIJrIf4oc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEBIJrIf4oc)

Other uTube links

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efPXs9_z7ek (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efPXs9_z7ek)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXoxGEEZSEk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXoxGEEZSEk)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnonRFJrm5Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnonRFJrm5Y)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu4rhCm_I7o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu4rhCm_I7o)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FklST8Kz1RE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FklST8Kz1RE)

C-3PO
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: KitS on July 24, 2018, 10:08:57 AM
A very interesting and ingenious sheeting system there.

It looks as if the main sheet goes all the way out and back in again as the Genoa is hauled in on the other tack, doesn't it? Or have I miss-read it?
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: rob on July 24, 2018, 12:28:51 PM
The mainsheet is controlled by a separate sail arm servo, as far as I can make out labelled trim servo on the drawing
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: C-3PO on July 24, 2018, 12:42:15 PM
Does this help?

Quote
Today decided to get into it and start with the sheeting circuit, to help explain the genoa function have posted schematic of the circuit which controls the Genoa and Main from single ring in the circuit which travels from port to starboard off the closed loop circuit running from RMG winch that uses 90 mm drum.


There is a second servo (other being rudder) that is used only for main sheet trimming independent of the Genoa, where you can have few cms trimming adjustment under sail for leaking little when running or pinching close-hauled, it does have small influence on main twist but not much.

As Main & Genoa share same sheeting circuit, TX control is as normal left stick where when centred up & down sheeting is full out for running, stick down is closed hauled port & stick fully up closed hauled starboard. Iíve mixed the main sheet trimming with sheeting stick.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1479438-Sprinta-RC/page2 (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1479438-Sprinta-RC/page2)



(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/07/24/Ramoser2.png)

C-3PO
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: KitS on July 24, 2018, 01:58:14 PM

The mainsheet is controlled by a separate sail arm servo, as far as I can make out labelled trim servo on the drawing


I don't think that's the case, the mainsheet is marked and goes forward of the mast right up to the bow and then back to the genoa traveller. Aft of the mast it goes along the boom and then in a conventional path to horse amidships and is then attached to that trim sheet, which seems to do exactly what it says.

C3PO's second diagram seems to show the same rig in a slightly different fashion too.
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: C-3PO on July 24, 2018, 02:15:47 PM
My understanding is that the main winch (RMG in the pic) moves the "Circuit line" - poorly highlighted in blue which adjusts both the Genoa and Main sheet

The other servo/sail winch is just for small tweaks to the main sheet (Yellow Arrow)

(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/07/24/Ramoser3.png)

C-3PO
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: rob on July 24, 2018, 09:34:25 PM
Emailed you Jonathon
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: rob on July 26, 2018, 01:37:57 PM
Well , I've spoken to my customer/friend this morning


£1169 didn't put him off.


I'm about to email the manufacturer for full and accurate cost, shipped to me.


Impressions and report to be published here soon !
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: Netleyned on July 26, 2018, 02:26:22 PM
Waiting for updates and
saving pennies if the result
is good.
Ned
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: rob on August 05, 2018, 07:32:14 AM
With a lead time of 6 weeks, we are about to pay the 50% deposit on a pre painted and decorated (steinlager) boat.


Customer relations seem to be very important to Christian Ramoser, the designer and seller of these models. The build  delivery and decoration has nearly doubled the initial £1100 price though.


I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this ( out of my price range) boat.
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: rob on August 07, 2018, 07:51:00 PM
Slight change of plan on the Sprinta rc.


At double the initial price, a fully built, fully painted and decorated 'steinlager', just add the rx and 2s battery, boat is to be ordered.


I will start a new thread when the boat arrives.
It's not mine but feels like Christmas will come in 6 weeks.


The boat is to be sailed at Hythe club winter series.
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: tigertiger on August 08, 2018, 01:51:31 AM
I, for one, look forward to seeing that  :-))
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: C-3PO on August 09, 2018, 12:59:39 PM
Rob,
Very interesting - Look forward to the updates and your experience with the model - I have my hammer poised over my piggy bank...
C-3PO
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: Klunk on August 09, 2018, 04:38:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TzjHOPYQ0Ap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shmu3yQs3do

Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: C-3PO on August 09, 2018, 05:40:06 PM
Hi Klunk,

Do I remember correctly I think you had issues with the Genoa on the Atlantis.

I have an Atlantis built by Brian Roberts and reviewed in Model Boats Magazine a few years back - but it does not have that option fitted

Another video showing Genoa operation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEyN0amOUZ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEyN0amOUZ8)

C-3PO
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: Klunk on August 09, 2018, 05:58:34 PM
Hi Klunk,

Do I remember correctly I think you had issues with the Genoa on the Atlantis.

I have an Atlantis built by Brian Roberts and reviewed in Model Boats Magazine a few years back - but it does not have that option fitted

Another video showing Genoa operation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEyN0amOUZ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEyN0amOUZ8)

C-3PO


no issues. I have the complete Genoa set up for the atlantis including a whirlwind sail winch. mine is still undergoing a r3furb, as it took 2 years to source new 50mm 2 hole stanchions.rigged then with 1mm wire rope. still to do the tunnels, which i have. it's just a long drawn out affair as nothing is simple, and spares are as rare as hens teeth.
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: C-3PO on September 29, 2018, 12:18:33 PM
Rob,

Have you taken delivery of this model yet?

C-3PO
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: rob on October 14, 2018, 10:58:15 AM
Thanks for the continued interest.
Stage ( 2 off) payments have been made, the latest last week.
Some decoration was added to the order ( there will be nothing for me to do bar adding the 2s battery and installing Rx and putting up the mast)
Shipping is due this week !


Christmas is coming a bit early.

Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: rob on October 23, 2018, 06:29:26 PM
It ( she) has arrived . . . . .. WOW.
bigger than anticipated, more beautiful and German engineering at its finest !
Pics will follow ( it's still wrapped in cling film ) as soon as the owner has unwrapped it.
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: C-3PO on May 26, 2019, 02:29:17 PM
Hi Rob,

This is still on my bucket list - how did she perform?

Regards

C-3PO
Title: Re: Genoa on a model.
Post by: rob on May 26, 2019, 05:58:58 PM
Good afternoon
I've not seen her on the water, but I know my customer is well pleased.


Further to making it even more realistic, I know he has had the foresail changed by Nylet to bring the bottom closer to the deck,and can now reef the sail aswell.i must get in touch with him this week.