Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: TheLongBuild on July 27, 2018, 08:28:53 pm
-
Hi, Has any one heard if there has been some sort of EU Directive saying that no Cars over 1000cc can be sold after September ?
-
Well that would effectively destroy the European motoring industry so not very likely I would think!
Colin
-
Agreed, it would fairly ruin Fiat for sure.
-
Will have to find out what was exactly said but the wording I was given was that they could not order a new Nissan over 1000cc from September ?
All sounds a bit strange and probably a misunderstanding from what the Dealer actually said.
-
Oh boy, I can take the dust sheets off the Cooper-Norton {-)
-
Well thats my Toyota C-HR gone then it might be an hybrib but it is 1.8 I was due to change the Auris in october
-
It's probably that particular engine doesn't meet the new emissions regulations.
New petrol engines are going to have to be fitted with particulate filters like diesels are already.
Definitely a misunderstanding!
-
particulate filters like diesels are already.
What......potential for more VW Gate issues? :P
-
It's probably that particular engine doesn't meet the new emissions regulations.
New petrol engines are going to have to be fitted with particulate filters like diesels are already.
Definitely a misunderstanding!
This Makes more sense.
-
So no Mercedes, very few Audis and equally few BMWs could be sold then?
Somehow I don't think so........................... %)
-
Oh boy, I can take the dust sheets off the Cooper-Norton {-)
arrow, have you actually got one of those little beasties...
...please post a photo...
..they are wonderful machines.
...the engine alone is worth a fortune these days for Manx Norton restorers...
...what machines, you lucky man.
-
particulate filters like diesels are already.
What......potential for more VW Gate issues? :P
It's been reported that manufacturers are already massaging the new "real world" consumption figures. Not by lowering them, but actually making them look worse (!!!) so that it will be easier to meet future targets. This a number of different manufacturers. They have been rumbled though and the testing authorities are looking into the "irregularities".
-
Sorry Neil, nope no 500 Cooper but I used to have a T39 Manx Tail 1100 Cooper (ex Lance Reventlow of Scarab F1fame). Basically an F2 single seater with a full width body. Same suspension , transverse spring and wishbone front and rear , same as 500 but beefier. Citroen gearbox with ERSA gears. Foolishly sold it to an American who more foolishly planned fitting a small-block Chevvy :o , don't know if he survived %) . Cooper then did it right and brought out the Monaco but had to put the seat to one side. Lost track of it but it looked like this but was red with black stripe. ( Pics from Web)
-
You can't extract power from nowhere. Internal combustion, despite all the bells and whistles, still chucks the vast majority of power straight out of the exhaust.
Most of the efficiencies on modern engines are only found at part throttle, e.g. sitting at a fixed speed with not much change in terrain. Most driving is anything but.
The only way companies are going to extract significant improvements in efficiency from cars with internal combustion engines is to reduce their weight. As the average modern car is built like a chieftain tank, and weighs about the same, that is unlikely to happen without a significant shift in manufacturing techniques.
-
I'd love to hear other people's opinions on which way they think the government will take car taxation.
How will they tax electric cars when they reach a critical mass on the roads? No capacity to measure, no emmisions to measure so how will a Leaf compare to a Tesla? Will it be on the battery capacity or the motor kW?
Is the best way to go to buy an old series 1 Land Rover so it is not taxable, fit a Range Rover chassis and basic Diesel to run it on chip fat? Everything is maintainable and replaceable - just watch out for the tax man.
-
My latest petrol BMW 3 Series is 1600 cc but is only a 3 pot. Before buying I was a bit concerned that it would be a bit asthmatic compared by my previous 2 litre. I should cocoa, best engine ever , silky smooth (crankshaft balancer) gets me away at the lights like nitrogenous deposit off a shovel with box in comfort mode and is totalling 38 mpg. If that is not progress I don't know what else you could expect.
With regard to new EU emissions directives coming into force in September , I received a sales email a few weeks ago ( can't remember if it was from BMW or Audi dealerships) with a list of new cars they had in stock with considerable discounts and the narrative that they had to dispose of these vehicles before the 1st September because after that date they would no longer be able to sell them . I do remember that the cars listed had big lump engines.
-
I'd love to hear other people's opinions on which way they think the government will take car taxation.
How will they tax electric cars when they reach a critical mass on the roads? No capacity to measure, no emmisions to measure so how will a Leaf compare to a Tesla? Will it be on the battery capacity or the motor kW?
'Smart Meters' !
Your Odometer will be 'smart' and we'll be paying by the mile.
The charging stations, at home or otherwise will be 'smart' and we'll be paying 'Non-Economy 7' rates for the leccy.
The biggest 'smart' will be the pain every time we pay.
-
Taxing by engine size doesn't really work either, because my 2 liter, 160 horse petrol motor does 51mpg on my 38 mile drive to work every day, and close to 60 if I take the longer motorway route.
Annoyingly, my old 1.6 diesel Fiesta did 40mpg and cost £100 a year less for road tax, and my previous car, a 2 liter diesel Audi A6 was the same cost, but at 48mpg. My current car has the least consumption and emmissions of the lot but is more expensive...
-
just a question from a Cadillac tec on the other side of the pond...do your say 2010 and up moters have vvt?(variable valve timming) and sidi?(spark ignited direct injection) gas injectors set in the combustion chamber like a diesel? and cyclinder deactivation?where say we shut down 2 on a 6cyc or 4 on an 8 cyc moter?..
-
My 163hp 2 litre Mazda 6 petrol gives me around 45 imperial mpg in general driving and performance is fine. No turbo, just a normally aspirated engine with a high compression ratio. The next generation Mazda petrol engines are supposed to be offering partial compression ignition to improve fuel consumption further.
On my visits to North America (USA & Canada) I did feel that US built cars are rather lagging behind European and Japanese designs generally in driving and other characteristics although they are loaded with various bolt on accessories. Which may explain why Americans often tend to favour 'foreign' cars much to President Trump's disgust!
In 2016 I had a Buick Verano while driving around Nova Scotia and while it did the job it was probably one of the most boring cars I have ever driven. A couple of design generations behind current European practice.
Colin
-
just a question from a Cadillac tec on the other side of the pond...do your say 2010 and up moters have vvt?(variable valve timming) and sidi?(spark ignited direct injection) gas injectors set in the combustion chamber like a diesel? and cyclinder deactivation?where say we shut down 2 on a 6cyc or 4 on an 8 cyc moter?..
Yup.. got all those and more !
-
On my visits to North America (USA & Canada) I did feel that US built cars are rather lagging behind European and Japanese designs generally in driving and other characteristics although they are loaded with various bolt on accessories. Which may explain why Americans often tend to favour 'foreign' cars much to President Trump's disgust!
In 2016 I had a Buick Verano while driving around Nova Scotia and while it did the job it was probably one of the most boring cars I have ever driven. A couple of design generations behind current European practice.
Colin
I can't agree with that. I get to drive lots of American cars and most are lovely - every bit the same as Euroboxes.
The only differences I have found is with the trucks and fleet cars like the old Grand Marquis which are designed to be mechanically basic for total reliability over hundreds of thousands of miles.
I am partial to the Chevy Impala (LTZ model) - very comfy and well specced.
I was most surprised with a Lincoln Town Car 4.6 V8 - 32mpg (US gals) with my lead foot giving it hell.
.
-
just a question from a Cadillac tec on the other side of the pond...do your say 2010 and up moters have vvt?(variable valve timming) and sidi?(spark ignited direct injection) gas injectors set in the combustion chamber like a diesel? and cyclinder deactivation?where say we shut down 2 on a 6cyc or 4 on an 8 cyc moter?..
for those who watch "YouTube" there is a series called "Harry's Garage". In his latest video he has road tested the new Bentley Continental and that returned an average of over 28 MPG on a cross country run; pretty good for a 6 litre v12 I would say. Of course the downside is the £200K+ purchase price.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eS-QlBFwJ8
LB
-
Sorry Neil, nope no 500 Cooper but I used to have a T39 Manx Tail 1100 Cooper (ex Lance Reventlow of Scarab F1fame). Basically an F2 single seater with a full width body. Same suspension , transverse spring and wishbone front and rear , same as 500 but beefier. Citroen gearbox with ERSA gears. Foolishly sold it to an American who more foolishly planned fitting a small-block Chevvy :o , don't know if he survived %) . Cooper then did it right and brought out the Monaco but had to put the seat to one side. Lost track of it but it looked like this but was red with black stripe. ( Pics from Web)
O M G ...
.you lucky man.
-
Pretty much all the gains in modern cars are down to better fuel and ignition management. This has been demonstrated in instances where enthusiasts of older cars retrofit original engines with modern computer based injection and ignition. Smaller gains have been realised in friction and rotating mass.
Many modern engines are also running stratified charge, which was very difficult to implement on cars years ago before microprocessor control. Crucially however these methods don't give huge returns when driven about town, as when accelerating under load, fueling has to revert back to a stoichiometric ratio in order to get decent power. On long runs modern cars can give very good returns, as they can be made to run on almost fumes, as only a few hp is needed to overcome drag and rolling resistance.
With modern engines and construction methods, straightforward non-hybrid 100mpg cars should be everywhere, but they're not. No car really requires more than 1L of displacement, small cars can get by on half that.
-
You can't extract power from nowhere. Internal combustion, despite all the bells and whistles, still chucks the vast majority of power straight out of the exhaust.
Yep. 40% is top-end.
[/size]Most of the efficiencies on modern engines are only found at part throttle, e.g. sitting at a fixed speed with not much change in terrain. Most driving is anything but. The only way companies are going to extract significant improvements in efficiency from cars with internal combustion engines is to reduce their weight. As the average modern car is built like a chieftain tank, and weighs about the same, that is unlikely to happen without a significant shift in manufacturing techniques.
Yes, to reducing mass. BUT a well designed hybrid should be able to use electric drive (smooth, very efficient) from batteries being topped up by regenerative braking and a small IC running at optimum settings. That's the way ahead - until I can buy something running on hydrogen. Preferably metallic hydrogen. %%
Andy
-
The Chevy Volt does that - it's really weird sitting stationary with the engine revving and then it cuts out as your pulling away when the batteries are fully charged and everything goes silent as the car accelerates.
I organised an electric car motor show a couple of years ago - I got to test all of them - the BMW i3 is good with the range extender pack (a lawn mower engine beside the electric motor for charging the batteries) and the Twizy is the answer to the modern bubble car - seats 2 and is great fun to drive.
The Outlander seemed the best all-rounder.
-
The Outlander seemed the best all-rounder.
Interesting - I consider the Outlander to be the second worst car I've ever had the displeasure of driving, second only to the Volkswagen Up...
On a run from Welwyn to Oxford and back it returned 36mpg and recharged it's batteries twice. I get the impression this one was rather broken, but the interior was dire (put me in mind of a late 90's Shogun), the drive was awful, it wasn't comfortable and the ride was dreadful.
-
1 litre on our unmade outback roads.
You must be joking.
It would not get past the first pothole. :D
-
P.S. Does anyone actually know what the origin of the rumour was?
-
P.S. Does anyone actually know what the origin of the rumour was?
I was thinking that it might just be boredom. Car salesmen have long periods of slack time, and banter leads to bravado. It could be a story cooked up by the sales team around the coffee machine, to come up with an outlandish story to test how gullible the public are. In reality the public are not that gullible, they won't just call out BS with someone they might want to negotiate with. A subconscious reaction of more polite people. Just my thoughts on this one.
If that is the case, try not to deal with the same salesman, as he obviously does not respect customers.
-
Umm, if it was it was very Stupid as this was a person who has bought cars from this garage for some time who changes his car every few years. No just someone of the street killing time.
-
As I said I think there was some fact in it, just that it got a bit misconstrued.
From 1 September dealers won't be able to sell any new petrol cars that don't meet the new emissions standards. So if they have any in stock they will be stuck with them! Evidently there are some good deals to be had.
BiL who works for a large dealer chain says they can't keep up with the PDIs (pre-delivery inspections) as they have sold so many cars.
-
P.S. Does anyone actually know what the origin of the rumour was?
When I was working in the music business (and for that matter, working in customs freight clearance at Newhaven harbour), we had a saying. "If you haven't heard a good rumour by mid-day, make one up and tell somebody!" Now we've got the wonderful interweb, the difference is that the rumours just spread faster! :}
-
Definitely a false rumour. Im sure the likes of Ferrari and Lamborghini will still be chucking out big V8s and V10s for years to come, and all power to them.
Smaller turbocharged petrol engines are really becoming popular with manufacturers since with a turbocharger you are essentially varying displacement on demand. So a 1 litre engine with a turbocharger can make the power of a 2 litre engine under 1 bar of boost, but when cruising and not spinning the turbo, its only a 1 litre. The only issue with this is that below the boost threshold they are essentially torqueless - we have a new Transit van in work with a small (but boosted to high heaven) engine, and when trying to pull away, particularly when towing, it is completely gutless until circa 2000rpm, at which point it just takes off.
Ill stick with my firebreathing turbo 2.5 straight 5 for now though :)
-
Amazing what can start a really interesting thread, after all the original post was so far off the mark!! %%
-
I think that we are lucky to have lived through the age of what is probably the best of petrol engines.
I have a number of motorbikes, mainly Triumphs with lovely engines, mainly unfettered with emissions stuff and an Audi TT roadster with a lovely 2.0 turbo petrol engine which is a joy to drive, 210 bhp and bags of torque. It's a keeper I bought for my soon to be retirement.
These new 1.0 engines are a marvel but you have to rag them to get decent performance, which isn't the way I like to drive, and ideally need to be an automatic for quick gear changes to keep them on the boil. Not for me (though some folks love them) - I shall keep on buying quite large (by todays standards) 1.5/2.0 turbo petrols for as long as I can.
And as for electric and hybrids - they might drive OK but that's about it thanks.
-
I do agree that the generation now entering or in retirement has probably experienced the best of what driving has to offer given all the constraints now imposed on cars and the move away from personal driving responsibility in favour of prescribed regulations, speed limits and various penalties which would probably be unnecessary if drivers were trained to use common sense and educated in safety principles rather than having their heads filled with 'thou shalt nots' and rigid rules which are often inappropriate in many situations which detracts from their credibility.
Examples such as a speed limit drastically changing just because a road crosses a county boundary and different criteria have been applied each side. Blanket 20mph limits so that the driver needs to keep one eye on the speedo instead of giving full attention to the road.
Colin
-
I do agree that the generation now entering or in retirement has probably experienced the best of what driving has to offer given all the constraints now imposed on cars and the move away from personal driving responsibility in favour of prescribed regulations, speed limits and various penalties which would probably be unnecessary if drivers were trained to use common sense and educated in safety principles rather than having their heads filled with 'thou shalt nots' and rigid rules which are often inappropriate in many situations which detracts from their credibility.
Examples such as a speed limit drastically changing just because a road crosses a county boundary and different criteria have been applied each side. Blanket 20mph limits so that the driver needs to keep one eye on the speedo instead of giving full attention to the road.
Colin
Have to agree - posing the question "What car would you buy if you were a big lottery winner?", my answer is I wouldn't - I'd pay someone to drive me around as there is no joy left in driving.
-
And with new rules coming in all the time I have decided to actually get a move on with my restoration of my MG ZA Magnette. As long as the rules regarding road tax and insurance dont change Ill be able to drive my fully restored car for the cost of my current road tax on my Vauxhall Vectra! Probably less!
The only problem is getting time to restore her since I seem to be endlessly deployied all the time. >:-o
-
QUOTE from the webby thing.
The European Union has developed a new test, called the Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP). This will replace the current NEDC test procedure for establishing the official Fuel Consumption and CO2 emissions of new cars.
The purpose of this note is to explain how WLTP will be presented within the VCA car fuel Data, CO2 and vehicle tax tools.When does the new testing regime begin? Manufacturers will be required to obtain approval under WLTP from 1 September 2017, with this becoming mandatory for all new cars by September 2018.Results from WLTP testing will start to appear VCA car fuel Data, CO2 and vehicle tax tools https://www.gov.uk/co2-and-vehicle-tax-tools (https://www.gov.uk/co2-and-vehicle-tax-tools)
as tests are completed and the data becomes available.
It seems that vehicles which cannot be certified under the new regime cannot be fudged under the old test standard any longer and will be dropped
http://wltpfacts.eu/what-is-wltp-how-will-it-work/
-
Amazing what can start a really interesting thread, after all the original post was so far off the mark!! %%
Uhh how do you mean so far off the mark !! I have stated what was said to a Family Member .. <*<
-
I think Baldrick has found the true cause of the rumour. The new testing directive comes into force in September. The VW scandal is likely the reason for the change.
I think the longer term costs to owners with cars fitted with the latest emission equipment will be very high when they fail or clog up in the future.
-
There are some significant financial issues for drivers and lenders in all this.
A very high proportion of private car sales have been made under PHP schemes over the last few years and these are based on the assumption of a specific vehicle value at the end of the term assuming that the original contract conditions have been met. (mileage etc.)
All the recent issues around emissions regulations and cheating mean that many cars, especially diesels, will not be worth as much as originally anticipated and that will cause the financing companies a lot of headaches although they will probably find some way of passing the loss on to the drivers.
It has been said that these days motor manufacturers are actually banks with a sideline in building cars and there is a very real financial crisis looming in respect opf PHP funded vehicles.
Colin
-
All the recent issues around emissions regulations and cheating mean that many cars, especially diesels, will not be worth as much as originally anticipated and that will cause the financing companies a lot of headaches although they will probably find some way of passing the loss on to the drivers.
It has been said that these days motor manufacturers are actually banks with a sideline in building cars and there is a very real financial crisis looming in respect opf PHP funded vehicles.
Colin
The shortfall will be made up by the customer by them being stuffed on the trade in / replacement car price (and trying to trade in against another make will be even worse) or on the other type of plan, the PCP, every tiny bit of damage will be charged for when the car is returned - every stone chip, wheel scuff, interior scuff, wear marks, dings & dents will incur punitive additional fees. Heads they win, tails you lose.
-
Yes, I think that's about the strength of it!
My car is on 0% PCP and just over one year old. At two years I will pay off the balance without penalty so won't get involved in the termination arguments. It's also a petrol as I decided a while back that diesels were no longer the way forward.
Colin
-
Hi Plastic, If you take S1 Landrover (Tax free) and put the body on top of a Range Rover you are risking a lot of agro from a VOSA road check. Strange looking Landrovers are pulled for checking and if it aint got a S1 chassis and the engine isn't on the V5 it could be on its way to the crusher. Stick with a standard Ser 1 , If you can afford one that is.