Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: jaymac on September 17, 2018, 08:30:19 am
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New: HMS Victory:Nelsons Great...
Thursday 20:00
Channel 5Warship. Documentary series. Rob Bell discovers the extraordinary feats of engineering behind HMS Victory, already 40 years old before securing its place in history at Trafalgar. (S1 Ep 1)
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Thanks for that. Reminder has been set...
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very good program one of the good programs on tv
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Agreed, it wasn't quite good, but they kept referring to Nelson as the commander of the ship. This he most certainly was not! Victory was the flag ship. Nelson was commander of the fleet.
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I'm down at the Hysterical Duckyard on Tuesday , will have look to see if any progress is visible with the restoration since my last visit
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I'm down at the Hysterical Duckyard on Tuesday , will have look to see if any progress is visible with the restoration since my last visit
Oh yes'm, please report back. She does look odd with no top masts...
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I go down regularly but it's a while since she looked like this.
Colin
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I remember an article some years ago when the Victory was structurally surveyed. The report found that the structure was not able to bear the weight of the main masts full height and their currant height may have been reduced because of these problems. I think the keel was substantially weakened and huge repairs were required.
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That use the way I remember her Colin. Anything else just isn't right!
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Victory is undergoing a massive restoration at the moment. The ship was indeed found to be slumping into her dock due to inadequate support to the hull and literally coming apart at the seams. You can follow the story here: https://www.hms-victory.com/restoration-log/2017-08 (https://www.hms-victory.com/restoration-log/2017-08) it is very intereresting.
During the work there has been an analysis of the paint layers on the hull which concluded that the actual colour at Trafalgar was a sort of pinkish buff rather than the yellow ochre traditionally associated with the ship. It's quite a shock when you see her in the new paint job, it may be accurate but it just doesn't look right really.
Compare this photo with the one above. The bowsprit and lower masts are still in the original colour.
Colin
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According to the restoration log the new hull support system started being installed in April 2017 and was supposed to last 18 months. Worryingly their has been no update of the log since August 2017. The progress of this is what I will have a look at tomorrow. I am a bit surprised by the chosen method of new supports, they comprise a double row of jack props ( computer monitored ) hydraulically adjustable and the exiting cradles at 6M Crs removed . Worries me a bit, I suppose the plan is to try and squeeze the hull gradually back into shape.
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Colin,
My model of her is staying yellow ochre.. O0 O0
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I suppose we are lucky to still have her considering everything the ship has been through. I look forward to visiting her in the future.
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Definitely worth a visit, as are all the other unique Dockyard attractions. Allow two days!
Sometimes you have to take guided tours of Victory but sometimes you can make your own way around at your own pace which is better. It seems to depend on the number of visitors at the time.
Colin
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The only thing I did not like last time was the pervading smell of the conservation fluids , Warrior was the same . After a full day going round my sinus's were in serious trauma for a month.
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Never noticed that myself.
Take the harbour cruise - should clear out the airways!
Colin
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If it ruins the wives hair do I will blame you. Most fussy about her coiffure is Mrs B
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There are often two boats used alternately on the harbour cruises. One is a smallish launch type 'Jenny Boat', the other a much larger 250 passenger two deck catamaran which has a big cabin on the main deck. Most people head up to the sun deck so there is usually plenty of room in the cabin which also has a door opening onto the foredeck which is a good vantage point for photos. The kiosk or shore staff can tell you which boat is doing which run.
If you want somewhere to eat there is a nice restaurant on the upper level of Boatshed No 4 which is used for wooden boat construction and repairs. One side overlooks the harbour, the other looks out over the activity in the boatshed. Fairly limited menu but food is usually good and the atmosphere is much nicer than the other eateries around the dockyard.
Incidentally, the dockyard ticket no longer includes the Mary Rose, they had a falling out and you have to pay separately for that now.
Colin
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Cheers Colin.
Fortunately we have some All Attractions tickets which are still nine date.
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Me too, mine runs out just before Christmas!Colin
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New: HMS Victory:Nelsons Great...
Thursday 20:00
Channel 5Warship. Documentary series. Rob Bell discovers the extraordinary feats of engineering behind HMS Victory, already 40 years old before securing its place in history at Trafalgar. (S1 Ep 1)
http://www.channel5.com/show/great-british-ships/
Catch up: https://www.my5.tv/great-british-ships/season-1/episode-5 (https://www.my5.tv/great-british-ships/season-1/episode-5)
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my soveriegn and victory under construction will also remain the ocre O0
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I remember an article some years ago when the Victory was structurally surveyed. The report found that the structure was not able to bear the weight of the main masts full height and their currant height may have been reduced because of these problems. I think the keel was substantially weakened and huge repairs were required.
Having had a quick check in the book HMS Victory by McGowan it appears that a support structure for the masts was fitted so that the weight was taken by the bottom of the dock. There are 4 5inch steel rods under the mast steps down to the concrete floor of the dock. This was done before most of the restorations started. Her current masts are lighter than the originals. The masts were also given extra braces to the dockside to reduce sideways load in high winds.
Jim
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Colin....."the dockyard ticket no longer includes the Mary Rose, they had a falling out and you have to pay separately"
I understand this is separate to the Victory [as the thread], but what is behind the issue with the ownership/sponsorship of the Mary Rose?.....from my earlier readings, I understood the future King of England was [in name] the head of the restoration of the timbers of the Rose
Derek
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The various attractions in and around Portsmouth Dockyard (including the Submarine and Explosion Museums) all have their own separate histories and complex ownership and fundraising arrangements. Victory and Warrior are now part of the National Museum of the Royal Navy although Victory is also a commissioned warship. Its all very complicated!
They have until recently been marketed under an umbrella scheme with gate and certain other receipts being apportioned between them although they also host their own private and public events (you can get married on Warrior for example).
Mary Rose is owned by a trust which wanted a greater share of the overall receipts in recognition of the importance of the vessel, its extensive museum and future financial commitments. Unfortunately agreement could not be reached so the trust decided that Mary Rose would be marketed separately whch has made a lot of people rather unhappy (see Tripadvisor reviews etc.)
Their side of the story can be seen here.
https://maryrose.org/news/the-mary-rose-heads-into-new-territories/ (https://maryrose.org/news/the-mary-rose-heads-into-new-territories/)
Basically the problem is that the Mary Rose Trust wanted a bigger share of the cake, and they do have a top class attraction, but basically the cake itself is probably too small and this would have had an adverse effect on the other attractions. I know from my own previous contacts with the dockyard when covering their events for Model Boats that keeping the whoe thing financially viable is constant headache. They put on a lot of events such as the Victorian Christmas to boost income but have lost the crowds that used to attend Navy Days when we used to have a proper navy and there were enough ships available to open a selection to the public. They must be praying for an opportunity for the public to visit HMS Queen Elizabeth I would imagine as that would certainly pull people through the gates.
Colin
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Thanks Colin for all the info and background I will definitely arrange for a 2 day visit to take in all the attractions available at the dockyard etc.
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Watched the catch up on 5 this morning, although an interesting program, it was lacking in substance i.e. it only covered up to the trafalgar battle, and not what happen later in life to show how she became derelict pre 1900
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Yes, if you already knew about the ship it was quite shallow really. I guess they were aiming at all those people who have only the vaguest idea of our maritime history. If it sparks some interest for people to dig a bit deeper then it will be a good thing.
Colin
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A bit of activity going on, seems to involve some rope . Glad to see the workers are wearing hard hats, those seagulls can be vicious
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/09/25/20180925_121942_resized.jpg) (http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/JZS92)
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still looking bare in the upper regions.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/09/25/20180925_142446_resized.jpg) (http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/JZY5m)
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Looks as if all the new hydraulic props are installed. Don't know if the supports as arranged at present are permanent, but with the cradles , all the props and supports it looks like an explosion in a scrapyard. Not at all shipshape. I assume they are pressurising the props to bring the hull back to the shape they wish to preserve her at.
(http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2018/09/25/20180925_122436_resized.jpg) (http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/JZAtK)
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Just as an aside. Being able to touch the bell of HMS Hood recovered from her wreck in the Atlantic and now displayed in the Jutland Exhibition is a bit special.
Colin
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Looks like they are going to paint the mast and bowsprit in the same odd colour.
If they do finally get her back to her correct shape, how are they going to maintain it without looking like a mass of struts under, fit a steel frame under every other main beam and clad it in wood to look like one of the type used for the long boats?
Noticed the under water hull is grey, should this not be copper?
I presume the series is for journalistic effect, only a channel like quest or yesterday would do a proper history. (quest is a tongue in cheek statement - they are similar to 5)
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Hi it's John V last time I went abord a lot of the canon's are plastic cheers John V
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If that is correct then I would assume that removing 2/3 tons of cannon by however many, would reduce the weight acting down on the hull - without the weight being counteracted by the water if she was at sea, I would also assume the barrels in the hold would also be empty and the stones as ballast be plastic as well. ;)
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Just as an aside. Being able to touch the bell of HMS Hood recovered from her wreck in the Atlantic and now displayed in the Jutland Exhibition is a bit special.
Colin
cannot expect that to go on too long, have you see the state of a bronze figure after everyone touches a particular part as its considered good luck, there wont be much left of the bell if everyone was allowed to touch it ad hoc, or the amount of grease from fingerprints (and other detritus) sullying a priceless artefact {:-{
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I tried to watch it last night on Channel 5 'Catch up'..... so many adverts!
Gave up after 20 minutes. >>:-(
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cannot expect that to go on too long, have you see the state of a bronze figure after everyone touches a particular part as its considered good luck, there wont be much left of the bell if everyone was allowed to touch it ad hoc, or the amount of grease from fingerprints (and other detritus) sullying a priceless artefact
Well, the bell survived a cataclysmic explosion followed by 75 years at the bottom of the Atlantic so I doubt if the occasional fingerprint is going to do it any real damage, especially as it must be polished on a regular basis!
Incidentally, the bell was originally cast for the pre dreadnought battleship HMS Hood and given to Admiral Sir Horace Hood who went down with HMS Invincible at Jutland. His widow, Lady Hood made the bell available to the battlecruiser when she was commissioned and is suitably inscribed.
http://www.hmshood.com/hoodtoday/today1.htm (http://www.hmshood.com/hoodtoday/today1.htm)
The previous Hood was commissioned in 1891 as a modified Royal Sovereign class with turrets instead of barbettes and consequently had a low freeboard. She was used as a blockship at Portland in 1914 and the wreck can still be seen today.
There is a video dealing with its preservation here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NZn3B0yCiE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NZn3B0yCiE)
Both ships were of course named after Admiral Sir Samuel Hood. (1764-1816)
Colin
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Visited the Historic dockyard back in August with the family, mainly to visit the Jutland exhibition, well worth a visit. This is my two lads next to the Hood bell, found it a little emotional, being able to touch the bell from the "Mighty Hood". Very surprised it's on open display and not in a cabinet, as with most exhibits. Jon
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I managed to catch up on the programme last night. I was hoping to find out a bit of her story through the Victorian era and to date, but as they seemed to be dwelling longer on Trafalgar I realised it wasn't going to happen.
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Wickipedia entry 'HMS Victory' gives her history in detail.
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Thank you, I'll look it up. To be honest, it rarely occurs to me to use Wikipedia, must be an age thing.