Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Painting, Finishing and Care. => Topic started by: Colin Bishop on October 12, 2018, 04:38:28 pm
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I know that the various Halfords spray primers need to be sealed to make them waterproof but what about their matt black? It gives a lovely finish out of the can and I'd rather not varnish over it if possible (above waterline application but will get splashed).
Colin
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I given to understand that Halford's matt colours are not waterproof. Perhaps a sealer and a gloss black on the area to be sprayed then a matt coat.
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I varnish the undercoat/filler then apply the matt. . . or is that me? just bein` Hielan` {:-{ Edit, ah I see Midlanders are just the same {-)
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Just done what I should have in the first place and looked it up on Halfords website. It says:
The advanced acrylic based formulation of Halfords Matt Black Paint colour match spray paint is compatible with virtually all types of automotive paint finishes including cellulose. It provides a tough durable protective finish on metal, glass fibre or rigid plastic panels.
So I guess it should be OK as it is, one reviewer used it to paint his motorbike apparently.
Colin
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I use Halfords acrylic spray paints all the time, however to ensure waterproofing I do use a coating of Humbrol Matt lacquer as they are compatible.
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The acrylic matt would probably be ideal for the red primer on the underwater hull. I can try it on a test piece of matt black too.
Colin
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Er Excuse me on this BUT it is NOT waterproof,BEST cause of action is simple....spray on some of their LAQUER on first then Lightly rub it down with 800 wet dry then simply spray matt black or the red oxide on top of it
Dave
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Dave,
I accept your expertise but the Halfords website states that the matt black is a tough, durable and protective finish which I assume applies to vehicles which are left out in all weathers.I have sprayed some onto plasticard next to red oxide primer and it is clearly a different finish. The red oxide looks porous by comparison but the matt black does have a dull sheen to it. I want to use it above the waterline.
Colin
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I hear what you say Dave but your spotlamp brackets are probably out in all weathers all the time and subject to the elements, dry/wet and temperature changes. My boat will just have occasional hourly sailing sessions at best which is a very different environment. It will spend the rest of its time indoors.
Anyway, I have emailed Halfords for their comments. I will also do a test piece using lacquer first and then the matt black. At the moment the hull of my liner model has Halfords primer over a waterproof substrate.
Perhaps you should complain to Halfords that their paint has not met their specification on your application and see what they say. I assume you did use Halfords matt black?
Colin
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I also feel the matt black is sold as a finish/top coat and not a preparation so ought to fulfil the description
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Just to sum up. I never expected such an exciting evening from a simple query.
The hull I am working on is a model of a 1920s liner which I started many years ago and have now returned to. It is already sealed, waterproofed and primed so it is just a question of applying the top coat. It needs to be matt black. Satin won't cut it, but most matt finishes can stain easily unless protected so a slight sheen has to be accepted. On a test piece the Halfords matt black looks perfect and gives the impression of being quite durable enough above the waterline on a model boat which will actually spend very little time afloat. The description on the Halfords website seems to support this but I wondered if anyone on here had any practical experience of it on a model. It seems not but at the same time offence has been taken where none was meant which is an unnecessary shame.
This is the sort of thing which puts people off contributing to forums.
If I get a response from Halfords to my specific query about the paint I will share it on here and people can make up their own minds.
Colin
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***Topic tidied up***
Off topic and posts containing personal remarks removed.
This will explain why the flow of comments seems disjointed in places.
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Bought some of the Halfords (not Humbrol) matt lacquer today and tried it on my test piece.
It looked good on the red oxide primer but on the matt black it changed the colour to more of a lighter charcoal black. In both cases it added an extra sheen to the underlying colour which is to be expected as you are applying a transparent refractory layer to the underlying matt finish.
I also tried thinned Ronseal polyurethane (solvent type) Mattcoat on the test piece using a fine brush. This made the underlying matt black glossier but had less of a gloss effect on the red oxide primer. Paul Freshney, who is an acknowledged model boat painting expert, considers that careful application of thinned Ronseal with an airbrush can give a much more graduated and controlled effect and I would certainly endorse that having seen his superb recently completed Sievers Mersey lifeboat kit.
My current conclusion, subject to anything Halfords might say, is to stick with their matt black as it comes out of the can which does give the impression of being a top coat. The matt lacquer looks a good bet for sealing the red oxide primer and gives a fairly similar sheen level to the matt black from most angles.
Colin
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Guys...this is my first post in this thread
In Australia, our paint brands Feast Watson, Cabot's and Dulux etc all have a helpline facility.......usually you type an inquiry to their WEB site question page & they suggest that they will respond
So my question to both Companies was...."would Cabot's polyurethane ["Cabothane"] cure on timber over a dried application of Feast Watson ''Tung Oil?"
The knowledgeable people from both Companies telephoned & spoke about the question posed, then went on to other woodworking matters
I have found these Helpline people not to be sales oriented, but people who had knowledge and interest in the area of my question
After one Google search %) I find that your Halford's paint people do have this facility ...so has anyone telephoned them?..[to ask about the serviceability of their matt black & water resistance?]
Calls to Halford's Help on (+44) 0345 504 53 53 is available for the cost of a local call & they are open 7 days a week O0
Derek
https://www.halfords.com/advice/customer-services/want-to-get-in-touch (https://www.halfords.com/advice/customer-services/want-to-get-in-touch)
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I used their email contact facility and am awaiting a response.
Colin
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I have now heard from Halfords as follows:
Thank you for your recent contact regarding the spray paint you are looking to purchase.The spray paints we sell are for the bodywork of cars, so they will both be water proof and weather proof. I would advise for extra protect to a lacquer over this to extra protection.
My interpretation of this advice is that it will be OK to use the matt black as a top coat in order to preserve the deep black appearance. This should be fine for the occasional use model boats get. Applying lacquer does lighten the colour as mentioned earlier and that would not look right on my model.
I have now applied red plastic primer plus matt lacquer to the lower hull of the model and it is looking good. I will leave it to harden off for a day or two now.
Colin
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Thanks for sharing :-))
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Good to have the official version.....I had used Dulux Chalk Board flat black enamel aerosol may years ago & it is still water proof, but was 9/10's of useless >>:-( me offering comment a few weeks back about Dulux in OZ and comparing to Halfords in UK
The only real comment to offer is that flat enamel hulls [be they black or red] need a little more of a wipe down with a basic kitchen bench spray after use to remove the tide mark.....so easy
Derek
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Yes, I think you should always clean off and dry hulls once out of the water and again at home if necessary. Most ponds in the UK are murky to say the least.Colin