Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: boxer on December 12, 2018, 07:49:31 AM

Title: draining the ocean
Post by: boxer on December 12, 2018, 07:49:31 AM

Anyone watch it , some really interesting images.

Bismarck Ö.Scuttled or sunk by order of Churchill ? Churchill ordered it to be attacked after  sinking of one of our finest, did he succeed...Ö

Tanks with propellors Ö..New to me

Pearl Harbour Ö...Did Americans start it by attacking a Japanese sub

Really interesting and I would recommend a watch
Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: roycv on December 12, 2018, 08:41:57 AM
Hi I have watched the programme, and I was watching last night but switched to BBC at first commercial break but stayed there watching 'School'.  I found that more disturbing!

However the tanks with props is WW2 stuff what about the thousands of lorries with props and automatic pressure control of the tyres for travelling on sand?
I think you will find that the attack on a Japanese submarine hardly started a fleet headed for Pearl Harbour!  The sub was patrolling ahead. 

Have you picked up on the miniature Jap submarines already in Pearl Harbour during the 'Day of infamy'.  Don't forget that the invading aircraft were seen on newly installed radar but this was disregarded.

USA had blocked oil and rubber and steel imports.  This was a long time planned assault based on the exploits of the British Navy at Taranto.
The rest is history as they say.
kind regards

Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: Colin Bishop on December 12, 2018, 10:12:06 AM
The images were interesting but there was no new information. The Japanese mini sub was discovered 16 years ago.The Arizona has been continually inspected and monitored over the years as it is steadily leaking oil. There are You Tube videos. Not sure what the point was of showing the current US Navy ships at Pearl Harbour when there is plenty of material from the period available.The DD (Duplex Drive) tanks at D Day are well documented as a disaster because they were launched too far out and into a rough sea. Many of the crews perished. If they had got ashore then American casualties at Omaha beach might have been a lot less. There is a surviving example in Normandy documented here: (

The aircraft carrier shown in the section about the Bismarck was the Furious, not Ark Royal. There is indeed controversy about the actual sinking of the Bismarck which will never be finally settled but before she went down she had taken several major torpedo hits, then when she capsized all four main turrets fell out of the ship leaving huge holes so she would have been pretty well flooded on or near the surface.

As with so many of these programmes of this type, it was basically under researched and cobbled together around some impressive sonar based visuals. Frustrating as it could have been a lot better.
Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: raflaunches on December 12, 2018, 10:22:20 AM
I must have forgotten to watch it! Loads of things to watch but always missing the interesting ones!
Does anyone know if itís repeated again or on a catch up program?

WRT to the Bismarck scuttle/sink dilemma Iíve always thought that a scuttle order would have to come from the command crew, by the time Bismarck had become a semi floating wreck who would have been left on the bridge to give the order? With the communications on the outside of the superstructure (a well known design fault) even if there was anyone left to give the order how would they have told the scuttling crew to open the sea chests? In my opinion she was sunk and she was finished off as a fighting vessel a lot earlier.
It always seems to be an underhand way of denying the RN its victory by saying she was scuttled, the only real German warship that was scuttled was Graf Spee, even Scharnhorst was sunk (you canít tell me that a ship can remain afloat in those sea conditions with 30-40ft of the bows missing!)
Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: robbob on December 12, 2018, 12:24:45 PM
The programme can be watched on YouTube and there are a number of other episodes too. (

Very interesting viewing.

Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: TheLongBuild on December 12, 2018, 01:23:03 PM
Interesting read
Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on December 12, 2018, 07:30:32 PM
Missed the programme but someone stated to me today that Bismark was scuttled, offering her sitting upright on the seabed as proof. My thoughts, wouldn't most ships that are sinking in very deep water, settle onto an even keel on the way down? Titanic levelled out, to an extent, before impacting the Atlantic floor. North sea wrecks are all over the place, I assume due to the shallow waters. Am I right, or just a little too eager to poke holes in stupid programmes??!
Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: Colin Bishop on December 12, 2018, 07:45:20 PM
Bismarck capsized when she sank and the main turrets all fell out. The long distance to the sea floor enabled the wreck to right itself as it filled before impacting on the bottom.

The forward section of Titanic was pretty much all flooded when the ship broke in half and maintained an even keel on the way down. The stern section was not fully flooded. There is an interesting reconstruction here:
Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: leaky on December 12, 2018, 10:11:56 PM
Scuttling denies the British the victory which seems to be missing the point really a super duper battleship at the bottom of the sea with either closed or open sea cocks still equals a pretty emphatic loss.
Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: rickles23 on December 13, 2018, 09:17:57 AM
Many ships sinking in deep water often land vertically. See the Search for HMS Hood.

Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: boxer on December 13, 2018, 07:37:56 PM
History lesson but research not completely done.

Some great shows and makes me want to dig deeper.
Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: Colin Bishop on December 13, 2018, 08:38:11 PM
If it sparks your interest then it is a good thing. Lots of books etc. available.

Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: justboatonic on December 15, 2018, 12:59:09 PM
Rumours of Bismark being scuttled have been around since the day she went down. All part of wartime propoganda, rather scuttle her than let the British capture her even if it was never an option.

The only sure fire way to get a ship to sit upright on the bottom, is a controlled sinking with big holes cut in the sides. There have been a couple of programmes about this especially old USN ships.
Title: Re: draining the ocean
Post by: Colin Bishop on December 15, 2018, 01:32:31 PM
Yes, some of HMS Hood is inverted, some upright and some on its side. And there is a big chunk missing altogether!