Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Baldrick on December 30, 2018, 07:07:43 pm
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It is reported that the Government, in it's wisdom, has awarded the contract for a new vehicle ferry service from Ramsgate to Ostend (No Deal Brexit Emergency ) to a new company who have never run a ferry service before and are unsure what they are going to do for ships. Tis the pantomime season.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46704522 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46704522)
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Yes, based on previous efforts to resurrect the Ramsgate service the Government have almost certainly been conned - but what's new?
Colin
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What a JOKE the bbc is . Had there so called reporter done any home work he would have seen Seabourn Freight is nothing more than a website . They never had a boat and never will. This has been an on going joke for years now and is well know in ferry circiles . Next ramsgate get a ferry . Harbour has not been derdged since TEF went bust . Biggest ship TEF had was Oleander a 3rd gen ferry. Most morden ferries dwaf her so they will ground out . Be intresting to see if the linkspan still works.
Brittany ferries are to run an extra 19 sailings each week over 3 routes . Be intresting to see what boats they are going to use . As there only freight roro is on long therm charter to Stena due to it not beening required
I dont belive a word of that storey , about standered lies for the bbc
John
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Brittany Ferries have put out a statement confirming the arrangements using their existing fleet to provide additional sailings (their ships all accommodate freight). However I believe some of the sailings are Plymouth Roscoff which isn't going to be very attractive to hauliers using Dover Calais.
Anyway, it isn't about ferries really. The intention is to divert freight from Dover/Calais to reduce customs checks delays by using alternative ports. Same amount of freight but any additions on the Western Channel routes means that the Dover/Calais ships will be sailing correspondingly empty.
Plus of course any time savings hauliers might make at the alterntive ports are likely to be cancelled out by increased driving time on both sides of the Channel plus there is the extra fuel used by the lorries.
Usual ill thought out shambles unfortunately, just like plugging smart meters in homes that can't get a signal or cease to work if you change supplier. Total waste of money but there are boxes to be ticked so that's OK then!
It's only taxpayer's money after all.
Colin
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I have to agree with you there Colin. Being an ex European truck driver Ramsgate offers no real benefits for the transport industry. In Dover ferries sail every hour and in Folkestone the train goes more often than I can remember. I can see long delays on both the roads and ferries at Ramsgate so I can't see many companies using it.
The other issue is Kent county council. They have banned all truck parking in lay-bys and industrial estates around the south coast and they clamp trucks that do. Unfortunately there still is no alternatives as Stop 24 and Ashford truckstop are woefully inadequate for the amount of freight that rolls through the county. I gave it all up because it the hassle just was not worth it anymore. This really needs all of the concerned parties to get together and solve the issue for the long term.
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Brittany Ferries have put out a statement confirming the arrangements using their existing fleet to provide additional sailings (their ships all accommodate freight). However I believe some of the sailings are Plymouth Roscoff which isn't going to be very attractive to hauliers using Dover Calais.
Anyway, it isn't about ferries really. The intention is to divert freight from Dover/Calais to reduce customs checks delays by using alternative ports. Same amount of freight but any additions on the Western Channel routes means that the Dover/Calais ships will be sailing correspondingly empty.
Plus of course any time savings hauliers might make at the alterntive ports are likely to be cancelled out by increased driving time on both sides of the Channel plus there is the extra fuel used by the lorries.
Usual ill thought out shambles unfortunately, just like plugging smart meters in homes that can't get a signal or cease to work if you change supplier. Total waste of money but there are boxes to be ticked so that's OK then!
It's only taxpayer's money after all.
Colin
Brittany ferries do not have long lay overs in port . So yes may be a few extra sails a week say 3 to 5 but thats a lot short of 19 like the bbc quoted. For that number you need one of two options . Drop the Spanish routes and move them on to the short crossing. Spanish routes make Brittany a lot of money . Two new or chartered tonnage. Hornflur is being built but she still a long way off. The two E flexs are being built and they are still a long way off . Yes they have the new charter conamarear on the Irish run ,but she ant going to make 19 return runns. It pure BBC bs
John
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BF's own website carries the statement re 19 extra sailings - check it out!
Colin
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The Port of Ramsgate "can not be ready" for extra ferry services in the event of a no-deal Brexit, according to the councillor for the harbour area
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46774054 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46774054)
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They started dredging the ferry terminal at Ramsgate last week.
Whether it’ll be ready in time, who knows...
Lance
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They started dredging the ferry terminal at Ramsgate last week.
Whether it’ll be ready in time, who knows...
Lance
They have opted to use a water injection dredger rather than a scoop and barge away operation . With this the dredger blasts holes in the mud and sand with high pressure hats and relies on the tide to carry the emulsion away to just outside the harbour . Looking at the amount of silting up in the harbour doubt has been expressed if this will be effective, particularly as it was the tide which brought in and deposited the silt in the first place.
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/01/06/ramsgateharbour-640x381.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/JOE8u)
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I did not type " high pressure hats "! Its the rotten predictive text software getting involved where it is not wanted. Read :- high pressure JETS.
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If high pressure jets create an emulsion which tidal flow takes out of the harbour, do we not end up with a nice deep harbour with a great big sandbank guarding the entrance?
Assuming that ships magically appear to provide services via the "new" ports, where are the trained staff coming from in the required timescale? It probably takes a lot longer to train up a member of the field staff to be effective than it does to train a manager. Or a Minister.
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They are today giving residents in the Manston Ramsgate area a foretaste of what it will be like when 3,360 lorries a day trundle through the town.
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I don't know why Carlmt didn't get the government money! Linkspan Models have loads of ferries and run a ferry business, loads better than this company, for goodness sake! %%
Andy
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They have opted to use a water injection dredger rather than a scoop and barge away operation . With this the dredger blasts holes in the mud and sand with high pressure hats and relies on the tide to carry the emulsion away to just outside the harbour . Looking at the amount of silting up in the harbour doubt has been expressed if this will be effective, particularly as it was the tide which brought in and deposited the silt in the first place.
looking at that photo you can see a sandbar between the two breakwater ends at the outer entrance to start with, now from memory when a friend was hoping to call in at ramsgate about a year back he was concerned that at the entrance to the inner harbour there was only 2m of water at low tide, well in the photo, that looks deeper than the main entrance that the ferry will have to use, he had a similar problem at Brighton, where once he was in the harbour, when he came to depart he had to wait several hours for the tide to rise due to the sandbank across the entrance.
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That really does not look like a harbour that would take a modern ferry. It lacks so many facilities such as adequate jetties & deep water.
If the great success of hard Brexit depends on this I am stocking my food cupboard.
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(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/01/09/49897195_1190547484433033_1011665785497583616_n.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/JObTR)
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it does have a linkspan, thats about all that can be said for it.
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and I suppose its handy for Manston airport where they will be holding trucks for dover,
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The linkspan hasn't been used for years though.Colin
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All this hulabaloo over Brexit all the Panic is making me laugh really,can someone please explain to me how we as nation managed to survive Before we joined the common market.
Yes I fully AGREE with everyone's comments before anyone gets the wrong end of the stick AGAIN !!!!!!!!!! That is is laughable how the company who hasn’t got any Ferries let alone somewhere to land them has been awarded a contract to run them that is unbelevable in its own right.....What concerns me is WHY all the panic over More lorries arriving at the port and customs intervention etc...
EASY solution and it is SO SO OBVIOUS but No one can think anymore....When Port is FULL simply call ferry company up on dog and bone...(telephone ) and say stop no more till we cleared the backlog.....Oh YES I see it now ....All forms of communication will obviously be Lost with Brexit PMSL
Dave
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ah but you are using words like easy, sensible and obvious. where would they be if they did any of that.
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Reminder, this topic is about shipping, not politics.... even though it is. {:-{ :police:
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Latest computer simulation of Navigational Aids for non Collision {-)
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WHOOPS>
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/01/10/fullsizeoutput_c7.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/JvtL9)
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Thanks Baldrick :-)) .......that would certainly save a few turns of the wheel ..............
So could they then just use reverse gear to exit port? ...[just imagine the cry from the Bridge..... look Mum......No hands... {-) ]
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Sorry, but without going political I've watched this post from day one but at what point does it relate to a "storey"? I was originally thinking an extra deck was being added to some ferries or summit, but obviously not. I've been in the marine / offshore industry for almost 20 years now, I don't know enough about dredging ops or logistics (nevermind the logistics nightmare of lean manufacturing we seem to fully embrace now) to contribute meaningfully. As for a new start company being awarded a contract, I am not so niave to believe in company names these days. I trust less I seen on news, very little I see on forums and absolutely nothing I see on social media these days, the truth is hidden somewhere else.
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I don't know what the fuss is about either - according to the latest news regarding the latest Brexit fiasco, with no deal we wont be able to buy anything from Europe, for example the JLR ceo stated they have been stockpiling parts (even though the Chinese have bought a third less vehicles and its declining) and in April this stockpile would only last days - at the rate the Chinese are reducing their purchases their stockpile will last months not days, and if we are unable to buy from the Europe then there is only a fraction of trucks coming across if any, so any extra time needed at the port in and out will be negated. %)
Any sane person knows that, we WILL still be able to buy stuff from Europe even without a deal - it'll just cost more, if they spent more time on simplifying the customs paperwork that would speed transit, the ferries then would still be able to transit in the same timescales, though if I was a MOD minister I would suggest fitting the ferries with a x ray machine and scan the lorries on board whist transiting (no one is allowed on the car or freight deck whilst at sea) - same for the chunnel (drivers sit in a carriage so the vehicle is available to be scanned), paperwork could be inspected and cleared whilst also on board - same for chunnel - and if its done on line then staff at an office anywhere could check it, any suspicious vehicle is directed to secondary and if they are concerned about cooking illegals then they only have to ensure that the trucks are bombarded with megaphone messages in the queue for different nationals to warn them.
But thats just my opinion (by the way sorry, martin it's still about ferries and how a possible way to overcome their expected hold up)
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Extra ferries, Ramsgate and lorries at Manston are all just panic reactions by the Government (at our expense) wanting to show it is doing something.
It has been reported that the proposed additional ferry capacity, even assuming that the non existent Ramsgate vessels actually materialise, will amount to just 10% of the traffic through Dover so they will make very little difference.
Moreover, those hauliers who divert to the alternative ports will be faced with driving perhaps a hundred miles or more out of their normal way to board a ferry that is likely to take three times or more longer to cross the channel miles away from Calais so their delay from source to destination compared with present journey times will be many hours at the very least in which case they might be better simply bunking up on the M20 and saving fuel.
Almost certainly what will happen initially is that the lorries which are normally effectively ‘waved through’ will continue to be so until such time as updated systems for dealing with customs checks can be brought into force. This must have been obvious immediately the Brexit vote took place but the Government have done nothing to address the issue and have now run out of time if we do in fact leave at the end of March (Article 50 may of course be extended)
Checks for illegal migrants occur anyway on all traffic so the situation will not change in that respect.There will only be problems if people on either side of the Channel actually make them happen! So it is likely that the whole thing will be a total bodge as one might expect from politicians who make or abstain from decisions with no idea of the practical effects.
The Law of Unintended Consequences is having a field day! I think the dredger at Ramsgate sums it up nicely. ‘If you are in a hole the best thing is to STOP digging’ %)
Colin
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The Ramsgate operation is now undergoing trials!
https://www.suffolkgazette.com/business/seaborne-freight/?fbclid=IwAR16A26OHrWHKy8DmRHtTClk2rEl-rKXKLqawzd-ENJR67l7otp3oW4K0GE
Colin
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The Government have now concluded it was a pretty daft idea and have dumped the whole project. Ah well O0
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The Government have now concluded it was a pretty daft idea and have dumped the whole project. Ah well O0
BCC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47182361
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The Government have now concluded it was a pretty daft idea and have dumped the whole project. Ah well O0
Not entirely. "A spokesman said: "The government is already in advanced talks with a number of companies to secure additional freight capacity - including through the Port of Ramsgate - in the event of a no-deal Brexit."
To paraphrase an expression which has been well used in this whole sorry affair, it seems that a bad idea is better than no idea. ok2
DM
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Not entirely. "A spokesman said: "The government is already in advanced talks with a number of companies to secure additional freight capacity - including through the Port of Ramsgate - in the event of a no-deal Brexit."
To paraphrase an expression which has been well used in this whole sorry affair, it seems that a bad idea is better than no idea. ok2
DM
Yes, but the negotiations referred to are with companies who actually have real boats unlike Seaborne Freight
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The Isle of Wight ferry probably.
This whole business is rubbish. It isn't extra ferry capacity that is needed, the existing ones are quite adequate. What the Government is actually looking for is additional port capacity and lorry marshalling space to mitigate potential delays caused by the need for additional customs checks. Basically they just need extra parking!
Utter incompetence at all levels starting with Chris Grayling. (Sorry for the politics Martin!)
Colin
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Colin you are spot on - not only extra parking but all of the facilities that go along with it too
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BBC: Government sued over no-deal ferry contracts - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47206303
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I found this bit quite funny
After Seaborne's contract collapsed Mr Grayling faced calls for his resignation, with Labour accusing him of "rewriting the textbook on incompetence.".
But Prime Minister Theresa May has said she continues to have full confidence in him.
Usually when the prime minister backs someone they usually end up resigning or being replaced - always thinks he a smirking snivelling man, bit like Jeremy Hunt
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I found this bit quite funny
After Seaborne's contract collapsed Mr Grayling faced calls for his resignation, with Labour accusing him of "rewriting the textbook on incompetence.".
But Prime Minister Theresa May has said she continues to have full confidence in him.
Usually when the prime minister backs someone they usually end up resigning or being replaced - always thinks he a smirking snivelling man, bit like Jeremy Hunt
From past observation of several Prme Ministers, whenever a PM states categorically that "The Minister has my full confidence", he or she has until the following weekend to get their office belongings into a cardboard box. At one time a competent and/or trustworthy replacement who had not yet been caught with his fingers either in the till or anywhere else they should not have been was always ready to hand. Today, less so.
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I found this bit quite funny
After Seaborne's contract collapsed Mr Grayling faced calls for his resignation, with Labour accusing him of "rewriting the textbook on incompetence.".
But Prime Minister Theresa May has said she continues to have full confidence in him.
Usually when the prime minister backs someone they usually end up resigning or being replaced - always thinks he a smirking snivelling man, bit like Jeremy Hunt
That is inevitably the kiss of death
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That is inevitably the kiss of death
Somehow an image of Mrs May in a passionate clinch with Mr Grayling came to mind - it's quite put me off me tea!
DM
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:police:
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Martin - you put the link up O0
Anyway - on another subject and not related - have you been watching the Martin Clunes islands of America - in the first he went to Hawaii - and went to your favourite shop - it had 15000 - yes 15 thousand hawaiian shirts and they still makes new versions every year, clearly they haven't seen your collection %% , I'll get me hawaiian print coat
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BBC: Government pays Eurotunnel £33m over Brexit ferry case - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47414699
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BBC: Government pays Eurotunnel £33m over Brexit ferry case - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47414699 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47414699)
They won't be worried , it's not their money they are squandering