Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: raflaunches on February 11, 2019, 07:35:47 pm
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Well it’s upon us...
Next Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday will be the last time you’ll see a squadron of Tornado GR4 bombers fly together. Tuesday will see 9 Tonkas fly around the country, Wednesday 5 aircraft, and finally Thursday will see the last time you will see 9 RAF Tornados fly together...ever. There will be individual flights for a couple of weeks but not in great numbers or in the formation next week. They will try to visit most of the UK over flying most place that had a connection with the Mighty Fin. I will be one of the last Line Teams to see them off and back again. Feels weird saying goodbye to them after 15 years on type.
Keep your cameras pointing towards the skies!
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Any idea of the flight paths.
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According to UK Aviation News;
February 19th
◾RAF Cottesmore
◾National Arboretum Memorial
◾DECA Stafford
◾RAF Shawbury
◾DECA Sealand
◾RAF Valley
◾BAE Warton
◾BAE Salmesbury
◾RAF Spadeadam
◾RAF Leeming
◾RAF Topcliffe
◾RAF Linton On Ouse
◾RAF Waddington
◾RAF Cranwell
◾RAF Conningsby
◾RAF Donna Nook
◾RAF Holbeach
February 20th
◾RAF Honington
◾IWM Duxford
◾RAE Bedford (Site of)
◾Cranfield Airfield
◾RAF Halton
◾RAF High Wycombe
◾RAF Benson
◾HQ Land Forces
◾MOD Boscombe Down
◾RAF Pembrey
◾MOD St Athan
◾Cardiff Airport
◾Filton Aifield (site of)
◾MOD Abbey Wood
◾MOD Shrivenham
◾RAF Brize Norton
February 21st
◾RAF Leuchars
◾RAF Tain
◾RAF Lossiemouth
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Thanks.
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Just beat me to it! :-))
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Hoping to catch site of them at Brize or Benson. Yet another aircraft going out of service that I was so used to seeing, can't be many types left now from my service days.
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Worked on Phantoms before Tornados. Afraid the American Phantom was much more reliable and durable than its British replacement. In 15 years on Phantoms I was never on a squadron that lost one then the Tornado entered service and they dropped like flies. The Phantom Fuel and flap systems were designed by geniuses and could be fault found in minutes. The undercarriage system had no (yes zero) microswitches in the down selection and only 3 in the up, whilst it appeared the Tornado had bleeding loads. If on a Tornado the undercarriage door was open but the microswitch said it was not the gear did not come down and you had to blow it down with air ( lots of work to reset) the Phantom did not look at the door position if it did not open it would when clobbered by a leg powered by a 3000lb pressure hydraulic leg but that undercarriage was coming down, which is what you want especially when landing on a carrier. I could never figure the Tornado engine control where if you lost electrical power the engines went to max fuel and accelerated to destruction in 3 or 4 seconds meanwhile being fly by wire you had no steering either .
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Hi Ken
You must have worked on the GR1s as the GR4s behaved themselves compared to them!
The engines worked like that because the system worked to 0volts means more fuel but this led to runaway engines on the ground if the electric generators failed. The MECUs were upgraded and new upper and lower voltages were introduced to prevent that from happening. It was supposed to allow the pilot some extra power in the last few seconds whilst he engaged the EPS (one shot battery) which would give him hydraulic power for a few minutes to pull the aircraft in to level flight ready for aircrew to eject. That was what I was taught anyway! %%
The undercarriage I think you may have the wrong way round with regards to micro switches. Most of the micro switches were on the up selection and our bane was undercarriage not indicating up and locked. This invariably led to jacking the jet up and diagnosing which micro switch or lock was messing around. However the fuel system I completely agree- I hate fuel snags, <*<
But I’ll miss this unnecessarily complicated beast of an aircraft.
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ITV: https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2019-02-11/tornado-final-flypasts-announced-as-warplane-is-retired/
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Used to watch them years ago on the bombing range at Donna Nook, used to maintain the watch buoys and the target. When I was working on the buoys I was only .25 miles from the target so got ring side seats so to speak. The most exciting were the Yanks Tomcats, they lobbed their bombs from a distance and screamed up into the clouds like a missile, never missed the target ( a 10ft by 30ft steel pontoon). the tornadoes used to fly over low and drop their bombs as they flew over (you could read the writing on the side of the fuselage by the cockpit).
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Again Phantom undercarriage on utilities one pump on each engine plus 2 more flying controls hydraulic systems ( one pump each engine). Only 3 microswitches in system they were operated as each leg locked up gave indication up and locked and also cut off hydraulics. The locks were of overcentre design so once up no chance of leaking undercarriage pipe work leading to Utilities fail ( unlike Tornado). Lateral flying controls were on all 3 hyd systems ( utilities and flying controls 1 in one wing and utilities and flying controls 2 in the other wing) and laterals would work on any one system , rudder was utilities hydraulics of manual reversion ( not a flying control you only need a rudder for landing in cross wind). Only weak point was pitch control working off just either of the 2 flying control hydraulics. It was made to survive well under damage. If a wing was shot to hell pilot could loose both hydraulic systems in that wing but the aircraft still flew.
Yanks were OK at redundancy, I still remember seeing pictures of an A10 which had taken a heat seeker hit on an engine, the engine and tail plane assembly on one side were gone ... but it flew home without them
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Low flying Tornados was done in Goose bay Canada, anyone flying in the dark at 50 to 100 feet using terrain following radar flying the plane and operating the engines while the pilot has both hands off needs a pilot that trusts electronics
Personally as an engineer I flew supersonic in the back of a Phantom and some low stuff ( under 100ft) but with the pilot very much doing ALL the flying, I was offered a trip in the back of a Tornado but politely declined.
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You'll laugh Ken but most of the faults you've mentioned are long gone (new ones instead!) but the funny thing is the nose steering motor is based on the Phantom's (we had to go a really annoying ITAR brief years ago why we couldn't share technical info about it as it would upset the Yanks) and the banjo joint on it often fails causing the hydraulics to fail on the No 1 system leading to brake system failure! The Fairies hate it when we change it as they have to do a four hour NWS test! How we laugh at them but we have horrors of our own- gearbox changes, engine changes, and everyone's favourite- taileron actuator change!
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Hopefully, they'll fly over our house on their approach to Brize, most of them do, we're only a few miles away.
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Noseweel steering motor identical, follow up pot not. Yes they boobed and tried to fit a Phantom one to a Tornado. Problem with Tornado is that it was electrically centred. After take off would do a built in test but then would not detect central ( bloody micro switches), so would not retract. Phantom was mechanically centred as weight came off and leg extended a roller running in a V grove, roller would run to bottom of grove locking leg central ... simple and it always worked.
Only problem with Phantom was stick to seat interface ( pilot). Nose steering de- energised by microswitch operated by handle in up position. Pilots wanting to do ‘maxi welly’ take off wanted to keep left hand on throttle right hand on stick. So some would select undercarriage up before take off relying on weight on wheels microswitches to stop aircraft dropping on its belly. They would then roar off down the runway hoping they did not hit a bump but not realising how the system worked they were blissfully unaware their nosewheel steering was off until the aircraft drifted and they tried to use it. I was personally involved with 2 cases where this happened, one resulting in the aircraft departing the runway at high speed, Of course in Phantom days we referred to weight on ground switches but after many years because of the acronym Tornado days referred to weight on wheels (WOW’s)
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Are they likely to come down the Mersey on their way to Valley or is it Sealand and then down the Dee to Valley?
LB
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After Valley they're heading up to Warton near Fleetwood so they may be following the coast up.
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Any idea when the timings will be announced. Leuchars Station is close to me so I would like to be there on time.
Jim
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WOT NO CORNWALL
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With reference to the past downed ones, they kept the RMAS salvage diver teams busy over the years and provided rolex wristwatches(the pilots used to be issued with rolex watches).
#
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No timings as of yet, the south west and south east and NI aren’t on the program for some reason which is a shame but considering the three days of between 5 and 9 aircraft flying around the country it’ll be one of the biggest send offs in modern RAF history.
On the darker side, there were five GR1/4 that crashed into the sea in UK waters over the last 40 years, so not bad considering the time in service but too many crew that didn’t make it back. <:(
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we had one come over southend airport yesterday about 1130am great sight!
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At least the Tornados that crashed into RAF Dogger Bank did not sink to the bottom, they just sat on a stack of Lightnings
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No news on timings yet- still dependant on serviceability and weather but there is a no fly Monday to prep the aircraft for the Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday flypasts.
129 (the GR1 lookalike) is currently having a gearbox change as the last one decided it didn’t like having oil in it! 084, 31 Sqn tail art jet, is currently having a rudder actuator change after that decided it didn’t like hyd fluid in it either! It’s like they are conspiring against us! I’ve often said aircraft have personalities and the infamous 066 is definitely one, she doesn’t like our squadron boss and seems to relish crewing him out on almost every opportunity! 4 times in two weeks, so much so he says he doesn’t want to fly her anymore!
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Rudder PCU change, what a pig, Oh! Those walking joints. When someone told me they had put the PCU inside the rudder not the fin I thought they were taking the p—-.
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Rudder PCU change, what a pig, Oh! Those walking joints. When someone told me they had put the PCU inside the rudder not the fin I thought they were taking the p—-.
Yep, they’ve still got the hydraulic swivels and we said way back in 2004 when they went through their mid life update that perhaps we should follow the German method of flexi hoses but guess what, they decided it wasn’t worth it! I beg to differ after 15 years of changing them!
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We were tying to prep for Nellis and had an aircraft where rudder kept failing BIT test, PCU and fairy kit had been to the bay several times, hyd bay test set even used on the aircraft and it passed. I was new ( but the chief and had heard of some incompatibility problems). As the jet had to go I made the guys rob a PCU from another aircraft and it worked OK, we then took the PCU that we had removed and fitted it to the robbed aircraft and that worked OK as well ..... bloody electronics. I also made myself unpopular in Goose bay a ‘leccie’ came to me with a popping circuit breaker he thought it was a bit of ‘rigger kit’ that was causing it but he did not know what it was and the riggers he was showing did not understand ‘electric string’, fortunately I loved the stuff so he and the new boy went to look. 15 mins later returned with the news that it was a duff solenoid on the HLWSCU and it could not be replaced in situ. Suddenly no one wanted to believe the new guy!, even when I showed the guys that electrically disconnecting just that one solenoid stopped the CB popping one of them still wanted to try the e box fist ..,..just in case.
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Nothing has changed Ken! I liken HLWSCU changes to open heart surgery on Tornado especially on GR4 when they decided to locate the GPS battery, clock and several new AV boxes above it and around it!
It’s a good couple of days of work to change it and test everything. I’m glad I chose model boats as a hobby to relax with because I couldn’t cope if I had to do miniature versions of what I work on during the day.
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The guys I work with find it strange that I am into boats and not planes after over 24 years in the RAF. Still I suppose subs do move on 3 axes so sort of fly underwater. I now work on kidney dialysis machines so I am still a practical engineer. I enjoy building boats and subs because of the challenge of designing and making the ‘extras’. My U47 I fitted with an Engel piston tank controlled by a ballast tank control switch, the switch had built in fail safes, during the build I realised these were all well and good when power is on but what if it switches off under water. Working out how to get a surface command on switching off took some time but for me overcoming challenges is what I enjoy. All I had to figure out then is where to fit speakers and mp3 boards for sound effects.
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RAF Tornados flypast over the replica A4 locomotive "Tornado" on the Wensleydale railway. (web found photo)
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:-)) :-)) :-))
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Only 3 not the promised 9. :(( :(( Is the RAF being stingy or is servicibility that bad?
Jim
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It's possible that the photographer couldn't get the other 6 in the shot.
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They changed it to a 3 ship with 2 going else where, which annoyed us too. More going up tomorrow, Thursday and now Friday. There is hopefully a 9 ship on February 28 before the end of Tonka party.
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I was right under the Marham - Cottesmore flightpath y'day but didn't have sight or sound of them. :((
Today I'm just north of Filton, so fingers crossed............
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Only 3 not the promised 9. :(( :(( Is the RAF being stingy or is servicibility that bad?
Jim
I blame it on Brexit {-) {-) {-) {-)
Ned
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Off subject I know but at 1400 New Zealand time Saturday 23rd at the Wings Over Wairarapa airshow at Masterton a B52 bomber from Guam is due to fly past at 1000 feet. This beast is en route to another show somewhere in Victoria. At 1000ft this Smokey Joe should be well visible and audible
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A week away and still no one knows what aircraft will be at the Avalon airshow.
Having visited and been impressed at Farnborough many years ago and seen the list of planes at past Avalon shows, I don't think I will bother again this year.
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We had a nice time this evening on 9 Sqn- we had a visit from the CAS (Chief of the Air Staff or the big boss!) who between his flying training (or reminder on Tornado) awarded us engineers a commendation on achieving an average of 99.95% serviceability rate when on operations, the only squadron to achieve this average. Considering the effort we put in I’m not surprised as on Shader Two we achieved a 100% delivery of our taskings.
Hopefully we keep this up until the end of next week when the last big Flypast happens.
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We had a nice time this evening on 9 Sqn- we had a visit from the CAS (Chief of the Air Staff or the big boss!) who between his flying training (or reminder on Tornado) awarded us engineers a commendation on achieving an average of 99.95% serviceability rate when on operations, the only squadron to achieve this average. Considering the effort we put in I’m not surprised as on Shader Two we achieved a 100% delivery of our taskings.
Hopefully we keep this up until the end of next week when the last big Flypast happens.
AWESOME job there, well done indeed! :-)) :-))
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Considering the beasts were made and maintained at Salmesbury and Warton, Im more than disappointed we were not treated to a flight up the Fylde Coast. And yes, I know they overflew Salmesbury and Warton.
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B52 announced as No Show on the morning of the event. Claims of technical problems(???)
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RAF Tornados flypast over the replica A4 locomotive "Tornado" on the Wensleydale railway. (web found photo)
Wow, what a great picture absolutely the best of British engineering what a shame they didn't get together with the guys Friday organising the playpast in Sheffield for the bomber that crashed all those years ago.
https://youtu.be/HVpD7qFBP5Q
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Tomorrow is the day of most Tornados in the air together for quite a few years!
There will be eleven of them flying around Norfolk and Lincolnshire, nine of them in a diamond formation with the squadron painted fins on the outer edges and the GR1 lookalike leading a mix of normal Tonkas and the Marham 100 anniversary jet leading up at the rear. They will over fly Cranwell at 15:15 and circle Marham at 15:30 putting on a very special display (hint it’s what the Tornado does best!).
Fingers crossed they will take off snag free :-))
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Airborne...
My last see-off (potentially) of a Tornado.
(https://i.ibb.co/CmbKHkv/668-F009-D-9-AAA-4-E62-BC52-55-EDBD8-D8541.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CmbKHkv)
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Airborne...
My last see-off (potentially) of a Tornado.
(https://i.ibb.co/CmbKHkv/668-F009-D-9-AAA-4-E62-BC52-55-EDBD8-D8541.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CmbKHkv)
:-))
(https://i.ibb.co/YPcBLz8/668-F009-D-9-AAA-4-E62-BC52-55-EDBD8-D8541.jpg)
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My last Tornado see off must have been in Saudi
My last Phantom see off was the Falklands
Different planes and very different weather
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And the diamond nine over Marham...
(https://i.ibb.co/ZSFnGZ1/1-D412-E29-396-E-4-DBB-B5-DE-C744-DBD60-CD1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZSFnGZ1)
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Well that’s it’s folks
Tornado retired from active service today, unless there is something serious in the next 15 days there wouldn’t be another RAF Tornado flying around again. Feel quite sad today seeing 14 years of my life gone in one final flypast at low level doing what the Tonka does best. If I can upload the video I’ll try to as Ian Dornan aka Doorknob carried out a spectacular final low level at 100 ft and zoom climbed into the clouds for the final time. RIP Tornado, you served us well.