Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: coch y bonddu on May 18, 2019, 01:47:18 pm
-
I feel sorry for not only the organisers but the modelers who have had their displays trashed....2 youths broke in and trashed the hall
https://www.mdmrc.org/ (https://www.mdmrc.org/)
Dave
-
Words fail me. >>:-(
Why?
-
More here:
https://www.stamfordmercury.co.uk/news/four-arrested-at-welland-academy-after-vandalism-of-model-railway-exhibition-9070661/
-
Read about this on NGF earlier. Just looked at the above link though, oh my days, some effort invested in that mess! I read it was 2 15 year olds arrested so far. Little toerags!! Probably dont even know how many folk they'll have affected. Hopefully the insurance pays out at least. I'd imagine that will put-off some folk from exhibiting in future.
Rich
-
What complete "xxxxx". Id love to see them given the birch but i guess they'll be sent on an expenses paid holiday to Disneyland in Florida because they come from broken homes etc.
-
Sue them for the damage, repairs carried out at £50 an hour.
Bob
-
They would probably have to pay at 50p a month.
Woman here fiddled 88K benefits and has to pay
Less than £8 per month and 12 month suspended
<*< <*<
Ned
-
Having been a serving Prison Officer for over 20 years I have a somewhat biased opinion of the SH*t of the world who think "how funny would this be!" . If I had the power I would invoke two things 1. Steal you lose a hand! 2. National Service for not 2 years 5 years. The word "respect" no longer exists in our society, I am so glad that I am coming up to my one over 69 th birthday.
Heaven help us if we have another world war! what would the younger generation do? Kill the invaders by bashing them with their mobile phones or tablets?
Rant over! Faz.
-
Just contacted the club to pass on our commiserations. I understand some items are irreplaceable we all know how they must feel.
-
Having been a serving Prison Officer for over 20 years I have a somewhat biased opinion of the SH*t of the world who think "how funny would this be!" . If I had the power I would invoke two things 1. Steal you lose a hand! 2. National Service for not 2 years 5 years. The word "respect" no longer exists in our society, I am so glad that I am coming up to my one over 69 th birthday.
Heaven help us if we have another world war! what would the younger generation do? Kill the invaders by bashing them with their mobile phones or tablets?
Rant over! Faz.
I’ll vote for you :-)) I’d also empty our jails of the thousands of murderers to make way for the other scum
-
It’s a despicable thing to happen, I don’t know what I’d do if my models were destroyed in similar circumstances. Unfortunately things like recommending National Service wouldn’t work these days, primarily the British Armed Forces will not accept anyone with a criminal record and even if they did it’s not the discipline minded force it used to be. The newest recruits in the RAF, and I can’t imagine the Army or Navy are any different, are more like schools these days in how they are run- no shouting or learning to be a proper team (what I mean by this is that if one person steps out of line the entire flight gets punished forcing the lower ranks to sort out their own) - these days you either get very quiet recruits or ones who don’t give a damn. It’s a shame as I used to think that military training would sort out most disrespectful youths but now I have doubts.
The only equivalent would be to destroy something they love but it would make you just as bad as them.
-
As most of them walk around with a hand down their trackie bottoms in public maybe what they value is self evident
-
About 15 years ago as I understand it the authorities made it illegal to physically smack your kids for being bad.
Now the public wonder why we have 15 year olds breaking the law and carrying knives. Go figure <*<
-
The sad part of this type of vandalism is that no amount of punishment will undo the destruction that's been wrought. Insurance may cover some of the cost, but the hundreds, perhaps even thousands of hours invested in the models can never be given back. I can only try to imagine how I would feel if it were to happen to me, I'd be devastated and disheartened to say the least. My commiserations to those affected.
Peter.
-
Well, it started with Samuel.......[Samuel Plimsoll (1824 – 1898) was an English politician and social reformer]
Of course, his work was valued for human life, however ''do gooders" jumped on the Band Wagon and now some 125 years later this is what we get...
zero respect [from a mixed age generation] for anything ....law, society, environment ...etc...etc
Derek
-
The sad part of this type of vandalism is that no amount of punishment will undo the destruction that's been wrought. Insurance may cover some of the cost, but the hundreds, perhaps even thousands of hours invested in the models can never be given back. I can only try to imagine how I would feel if it were to happen to me, I'd be devastated and disheartened to say the least. My commiserations to those affected.
Peter.
Peter
I very much doubt the insurance will cover it as most modellers do not value the cost of the model at full commercial rebuild.
From now on when I go to model shows where boats have to stay over night I will be using a commercial rebuild value so not longer about £1000 more like £25000.
Yes the two little 15 will not be named due to their age and get a token punishment. This is what is wrong with both the CPS and judges and the courts
John
-
I had intended to visit this show but was told by a family member that a report of vandalism had been published and that the show was cancelled. I chose not to travel as I thought the organisers would have enough on their hands without well meaning members of the public turning up and trying to help !!
I attach a link to an article in the local press with some photos of the damage. Hopefully the link will work.
https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/crime/four-youths-arrested-after-thousands-of-pounds-of-damage-forces-model-railway-show-to-be-cancelled-1-8932543 (https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/crime/four-youths-arrested-after-thousands-of-pounds-of-damage-forces-model-railway-show-to-be-cancelled-1-8932543)
Sadly, I have to agree with the comments that these youths will not be punished in any meaningful way. Furthermore, the bleeding heart liberals, that run what is jokingly referred to as the Criminal Justice System, would never allow the punishments suggested in some of the posts no matter richly they are deserved.
Mick
-
That is so ***** >>:-( <*<
Just looked at the video. The louts didn't just trash the exhibits, they piecemeal destroyed every bit.
I very much doubt if they will receive any real punishment. <:(
-
This is more than vandalism. The level of destruction is manic but I am sure that they are such nice boys who love their mother & their brothers & sisters who wouldn't hurt a fly and just had a mad moment caused by the stress of being 15. <*< <*< <*< <*< .
I would start with castration to make sure the little buggers didn't reproduce.
I feel so sorry for the modellers. We all know that the insurance payout will neither compensate nor remove the very bitter taste that this causes.
I live in a "safe" village but when we have had events with "valuable" exhibits we have had a couple of people sleep in the show room. I think this might change a few thoughts on security.
-
It's made the national news now, heartbreaking really.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48326572
I am slightly surprised that there appears to have been no overnight active security given the nature of the contents which had much more than monetary value. If I put one of my models into a show under those circunstances I would have wanted there to be somebody on site overnight.
Colin
-
While it might be tempting to blame some current social malaise for this sort of nonsense it's a fact that it has been going on for decades. I've often wondered about the mentality of folk who smash bus shelters and telephone boxes; who spray obscene and brainless graffiti onto new paintwork or who deliberately set fire to buildings, cars and grassland. I can only conclude that they get some sort of perverse kick out of seeing the results of their handiwork and thinking "I did that!".
Perhaps we should set up the old-fashioned village stocks at the sites of their stupidities; lock the miscreants into them for a few days and hang signs around their necks which say "I did this". I believe that a public shaming would be much worse for the egos of these pathetic morons than a private punishment, especially if pictures of their ritual humiliation were circulated on Farcebook etc. Perhaps we could pay to throw rotten veg at them, with the proceeds going towards repairing the damage?
Jean-Paul Sartre said "Hell is other people". He wasn't wrong - in this case at least.
Dave M
-
There has always been a group of people who either can't or won't see the difference between right and wrong. Usually, if they suffer a bit of wrong to themselves, they find the ability to tell you what the difference is very eloquently.
A bit of judicial wrong, and the certainty of being caught and suffering it, is probably the cure. I am quite sure that if the do-gooders who object to that kind of thing, as personal individuals, had their nice new cars keyed a time or two, they would reconsider their thinking. For years past, those who make the rules have been largely safely insulated from the consequenses of those rules, and any feedback they get will have been laundered, manipulated and spun to make any disaster look like an achievement.
-
The train hobbyists must be devastated - its akin to an attack on ones person . They must be totally overwhelmed - one can imagine if it were your models the feelings it would cause.
One of those who must share a lot of the blame was the so called child care "Guru" Dr Spock (no not Star Trek ). He admitted on his deathbed that he had been wrong in his advice on handling children and now believed in the adage "spare the rod and spoil the child". The loonies choose to ignore that and generally try to deny he recanted his original beliefs.
I for one as a colonial was totally taken aback at children's attitudes when living in the UK - even my then wife was shocked and she had grown up in England. On the other hand we found children , even of the so called "difficult teenage years" in France to be generally well behaved and respectful of their elders. A French friend said to me that they did not believe in sparing the rod, which I totally agree with. I only punished my own children twice, and even heading to middle age they remember it well.
-
I've often wondered about the mentality of folk who smash bus shelters and telephone boxes; who spray obscene and brainless graffiti onto new paintwork or who deliberately set fire to buildings, cars and grassland.
How about those that attack paramedics and fire crews etc dealing with an emergency?
-
Words fail me they are just B******S
Dave <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*<
-
Also now covered in the MailOnline https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7046891/Yobs-leave-grown-men-tears-smash-model-railway-exhibition.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7046891/Yobs-leave-grown-men-tears-smash-model-railway-exhibition.html)
-
The Market Deeping Model Railway Club, who organised this show, set up a Just Giving page to raise £500 in order to fund the repair or replacement of the layouts and property destroyed. I made a small contribution and, this morning, the funds raised stood at £40,510. The donations seemingly came from all across the world with strong messages of sympathy mostly from model makers but also from those whose families enjoyed visiting such shows or who had enjoyed the model railways created by fathers and grandfathers. It restores faith in humanity.
Mick
-
I notice that the target has now gone up to £75000 but there is no detail about what the money is being raised to pay for.
Is it the club (& if so to pay for what exactly) , or some sort of financial compensation for those who lost models or?????????????
Before anyone comes back let me just say that I am appalled by what has happened and that £75000 is a lot of money. I would just like to know where my donation is going. I trust that it will be spent wisely but on what exactly.
-
I notice that the target has now gone up to £75000 but there is no detail about what the money is being raised to pay for.
Is it the club (& if so to pay for what exactly) , or some sort of financial compensation for those who lost models or?????????????
Before anyone comes back let me just say that I am appalled by what has happened and that £75000 is a lot of money. I would just like to know where my donation is going. I trust that it will be spent wisely but on what exactly.
A burglar alarm?
-
They had a burglar alarm.... and the the Police actually responded!
-
BBC: Money floods in for Market Deeping Model Railway Club
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48332649
-
Apparently Rod Stewart, a noted railway modeller himself, donated £10k.Colin
-
Apparently Rod Stewart, a noted railway modeller himself, donated £10k.Colin
I wonder if he knows where the money is going - or just as importantly where it isn't.
I think of some of the clubs around here (& their committees) & I find it difficult to imagine they would cope with all this. Once a lot of money is involved the climate changes very quickly.
-
Apparently Rod Stewart, a noted railway modeller himself, donated £10k.Colin
He has "pledged" 10,000 and he's trying to get Jools Holland and Roger Daltrey to do the same. They are also keen train modellers. Jools Hollands layout was featured in Railway Modeller and Continental Modeller a couple of months back.
-
It's a sign of the times that the default position is too assume the worst. It's a lot of money for a small club to suddenly receive One can only hope that they keep their heads. I would hope that they will donate a fair amount to the charities that the Club normally supports and just retain what they need. The original amount was 500 which was about what they had expected to raise from the show. Some payments to members and guests who lost expensive items, perhaps.
-
Isn't Pete Waterman a big model railway fan?
-
Yep. Just been looking that up Martin - seems he auctioned his layout off a while back. He champions other causes now, including railway apprenticeships.
Plenty info about that and other projects via Google :-))
Regards
Ray.
-
Found the 'Crowdfunding' page: https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/market-deeping-mrc
( Crowd Funding FYI - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdfunding )
-
Isn't Pete Waterman a big model railway fan?
Pete Waterman "upscaled"! He bought a locomotive workshop at Crewe to renovate full sized mainline steam locos. He sold that business to Arriva and after several more incarnations now owns the Railway Exchange Training Academy jointly with OSL.
-
I think Tug Fanatic is right. That amount of money could turn out to be more of a curse than a blessing.
You can't really compensate the work somebody has put in over many years in purely financial terms. It's not as if you can simply go out and buy replacements.
Colin
-
I see the fund is now past £79K. I have been thinking this has become a liability and will bring unwanted problems. It is time to take what they need and pledge the rest to some worthy cause. I understand that they were just hoping to raise £500.
I had a nice reply to my email from their chairman, I do not envy him one bit with the decision that needs to be taken though. What ever it is it will upset someone. I would not be surprised if we suddenly hear about lawyers being involved.
regards Roy
-
I see the fund is now past £79K. I have been thinking this has become a liability and will bring unwanted problems. It is time to take what they need and pledge the rest to some worthy cause. I understand that they were just hoping to raise £500.
I had a nice reply to my email from their chairman, I do not envy him one bit with the decision that needs to be taken though. What ever it is it will upset someone. I would not be surprised if we suddenly hear about lawyers being involved.
regards Roy
Roy please don't think that I am getting at you but this illustrates the problem well. "It is time to take what they need". There are so may unsaid thoughts in that simple sentence.
Who are "they" in this context? The club, the traders, the model builders, the ????
"need". I am afraid that I don't even understand this. How do you define need in this context? I am guessing that the hall was covered by insurance as I hope were the traders. Money will not repair the work that goes into building a model railway although it might help encourage some very upset modellers to build something new & hopefully better. I can see lots of room for debate. What duty of care did the organizers owe the participants & did they fulfill it?
"pledge the rest to some worthy cause". I am afraid that I don't agree with this at all. Your worthy cause is my waste of money & probably vice versa. I gave money specifically to try & repair, or at least try & help control the damage that these 4 idiots caused. I did not give money for a "worthy cause". If they don't have a use for the money directly related to the tragedy they should stop collecting it and probably should have stopped some time ago. At the moment it seems to be the ambition to collect as much as possible but I am still asking for what purpose.
Please don't read into the above that I am not desperately sorry for the cub, the modellers, the traders & anyone else that was damaged by this.
-
Afraid I'm with Roy. Divvying up that amount needs very careful (and legal) thought. Fantastic total that it is though. I'd agree though, it absolutely needs to stay true for the original purpose. Perhaps a summation of the original insured values per person needs considering, with some sort of proportional pay-out. Don't envy them working that one out. There can be lots of arguments in railway circles, don't really see so much with marine modellers.
-
The modellers are the only people to suffer a loss.
I would think the best way is to get a few guys together who know about the models and calculate build times and true costs of each model - add it all up and divide the money out on that basis.
It's unlikely that the money will fully cover that actual cost in hours and materials of all of the models.
-
Hi all, I expect there was a cost of hiring the hall and advertising probably most of £1K. to put on the exhibition.
I see there is a £75K target, which should stop any more contributions. Rod Stewart contributed £10K so he may get to be an Honorary member!
I sincerely hope it ends well.
regards Roy
-
..................I see there is a £75K target, which should stop any more contributions...................
They have reached £81708 of their £75000 target. Last time this happened they just upped their target.
I also hope that it ends well.
-
Goodness...wildly overstated comments {-) please read ........the original target was ...so easy....just read %)
"We originally hoped for £500 to fund some of our rebuilding costs. The response has been out of this world and overwhelming. We are truly grateful for everything that has been donated both money and gifts"
-
Hi Tug, no offence taken we all have our opinions. That is what makes life interesting. The 'they' I was thinking of was the club committee.
I did mention in thread No. 40 that their aspirations were for £500. A modest amount in wordly terms but high as far as a model club is concerned. Although that money would only buy 4 off 'OO' gauge locos these days.
We have a committee meeting in a few days I will raise it as a hypothetical problem during tea and biccies.
regards Roy
-
I think the 500 target was to make back the money they had expected to make from the show after expenses. I just hope that wise heads prevail as regards disposal of the donated cash.
-
Meanwhile I wonder what the club's insurers are making of this, It's possible that their loss adjusters will use the generosity of the public donations to reduce their payout on the basis that the clubs hardship has been reduced, asuming that they are entertaining the claim anyway.
And they'l probably increase the club's premium when it's up for renewal because they made a claim too.
More to discuss during the tea & biccies.
Rob.
-
Meanwhile I wonder what the club's insurers are making of this, It's possible that their loss adjusters will use the generosity of the public donations to reduce their payout on the basis that the clubs hardship has been reduced, asuming that they are entertaining the claim anyway.
And they'l probably increase the club's premium when it's up for renewal because they made a claim too.
More to discuss during the tea & biccies.
Rob.
That's what I was thinking - they win twice - not having to pay out and cranking up the policy in the future.
-
That's what I was thinking - they win twice - not having to pay out and cranking up the policy in the future.
Their profit margins are sacrosanct of course, we're just here to pay their share holder's dividends.......... NOT!
-
Today they found satisfaction in destroying someone's train sets. Tomorrow they will need to destroy a person to get their jollies. There must still be some vacant islands , accessibly only by ship or air, that these two could be sent to when caught. Sort of a "survival" sentence..... give them time to consider their paths in life.
-
Hi all, I expect there was a cost of hiring the hall and advertising probably most of £1K. to put on the exhibition.
For a model railway exhibition of any size, £1k isn't enough to open the doors. Aside from the venue costs, which for a 2 day show this big will be more than that on their own, you also have to pay expenses to all the exhibitors, advertising, insurance etc.
All of this is hopefully offset and more by fees from trade stands and ticket sales - but obviously not in this case.
-
I see the fund is now past £79K. I have been thinking this has become a liability and will bring unwanted problems. It is time to take what they need and pledge the rest to some worthy cause.
Since the volunteers running the club are still dealing with the aftermath - insurance claims and media inquiries - it's bit early to suggest that should already have a costed shopping list.
Behind the scenes they are working on it, but the size and generosity of the response has been a surprise, albeit a nice one!
-
They have now reached £106070 of their £75000 target which was increased from the original £500 target.
I really do wonder where they are going with all this.
As I said before I hope that it ends well.
-
I don't know a serious railway modeller yet who doesn't have a line by line catalogue of stock with photographs, specifications, DCC Cv values, purchase price and insurance value. It's almost a sideline of the hobby. They even make up or buy software specifically for it. A lot of guys have it for their house insurance anyway. Maybe not everyone, but a lot of guys do. Question is always that some consider their time invested, some folk like me consider that not applicable to a hobby.
-
I made a donation to the MDMRC and have been following the story since. The Club certainly intends to donate some of the money raised to local good causes. They are also talking about a initiative to help encourage youngsters into the hobby possibly through local schools. Some good ideas there.
-
Good ideas possibly but this sounds like way beyond the objectives that their crowd funding page states that they are raising funds for & which donations have been made to support.
-
Good ideas possibly but this sounds like way beyond the objectives that their crowd funding page states that they are raising funds for & which donations have been made to support.
I dont get this line of thinking. People dont have to crowd fund, it is purely voluntary. People can see the sum raised before they contribute. Maybe they decided they could buy some building outright for future shows or, take on a long term lease with the money?
-
I dont get this line of thinking. People dont have to crowd fund, it is purely voluntary. People can see the sum raised before they contribute. Maybe they decided they could buy some building outright for future shows or, take on a long term lease with the money?
I agree, to me it would seem an excellent opportunity to be able to get some positive PR for those involved in the hobby and use some of the momentum behind the public spirit to make it a win for railway modelling and give some satisfaction to those who built those layouts that were destroyed that it wasn't all in vain after all.
It's a huge amount of money but if used cleverly it could very well it could have a bit of light at the end of the murky tunnel (and as it's railway modelling there would no doubt be some ready to point out the type of tunnel used was incorrect for the depicted era and the types of flower seen on the side were the wrong shade of lavender etc etc ;) )
-
No cash compensation will really cover for the loss entailed in modelmaking effort that was destroyed. You simply cannot put a price on that. For example if somebody smashed one of our lovingly constructed scratchbuilt boats they would be literally irreplaceable and no amount of money would bring it back. You cannot buy a replacement.
Obviously the club can use some of the money to rebuild the destroyed layouts and replace some commercial items and that's fine but what then do you do with the rest of the money? As said above, that could be a real problem. Clubs are not really equipped to deal with that sort of issue and I wish them the best of luck in resolving it,.
Colin
-
personally as long as any excess money is used to promote model railroading in some way I wouldn't be worried what they spend it on. it was donated to the club so I wouldn't be happy with it being dished out to any other organisation that is not model railway related. call me selfish but its just my opinion. does anyone know if there is a final total yet or is the crowd funding still open.
-
I can't see any difficulty with using some of this donated cash to support local good causes. Most model shows are used for that purpose anyway. To buy or build a permanent club building would also, for me, be a suitable use of the donations. Whatever they do with it, these are model makers not politicians, so they're not going to blow it all on a champagne lifestyle. At worst they'll buy a lot of miniature trees and teeny tiny people.
-
Hi all I had a very sensible down to earth response from their Chairman who is experienced in dealing with people and no doubt problems.
I think there will be a good and well thought through outcome to this unexpected situation. I do not think teeny trees will have much to do with it!
I wish him all the best.
Roy
-
Sentencing has now been carried out:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-49397838
Colin
-
Thanks for the heads up Colin.
Apart from that, words fail me - too flippin' soft.
Regards,
Ray.
-
I understand that the club are investing a significant part of the money in efforts to bring new people, especially youngsters, in to the hobby.
There will be a major display from them at the National Festival of Railway Modelling (https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/shows/show/the-national-festival-of-railway-modelling).
-
BBC: Boys sentenced for trashing Stamford model railway show.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-49397838
-
and they wonder why crime is on the rise . Sorry typical libral judge ,Poor boys bla bla . Sorry parents must cover the full cost of any damage and police time. Cant pay take there house. Kids 6 months young offinders no parole.
John
-
"Flogging in public's too good for these scum!! Bring back the village stocks! Hang the man who sold them the vodka and sterilize their parents so that they can't infect society with any more of their foul seed! Where did good old English values go?" >>:-(
Get a grip, for goodness sake...
DM
-
You are a bit behind the curve Martin. ;)
Colin
-
What, no charges with regard to the actual break in?
C.P.S.? Far too lenient!
Regards,
Ray.
-
Hi all, I think that the boys should have a chance of seeing the error of their ways and hopefully being ashamed of what they did. Better that way than label them and produce 4 more criminals.
Can't condone what they did but alcohol and young lads do not well go together.
They were about to do their exams so perhaps not amongst the not so brights.
regards.
Roy
-
Hi all, I think that the boys should have a chance of seeing the error of their ways and hopefully being ashamed of what they did. Better that way than label them and produce 4 more criminals.
Can't condone what they did but alcohol and young lads do not well go together.
They were about to do their exams so perhaps not amongst the not so brights.
regards.
Roy
Will all probably all be future leaders of the country.. 8) 8)
-
The punishment doled out in no way reflects the despair caused by the boys actions. :((
-
Your Samuel Plimsoll started all of this Civil Libertarian type views of care and such <*< ...did the panel of Magistrates really believe that a few swigs of Vodka could alter the state of mind from normal young Law abiding members of the Community into moronic idiots?
Putting a +, star or X on their foreheads or making them wear an armband........would be an insult to those subjected to this years ago
Words for punishment to fit for the crime would not be allowed on this Forum.........don't deport them to the far off lands as you did 200 years ago.........we have enough of the same here in OZ....and we don't have the answer either
Not well known in this English speaking world, however a Dutchman seafarer by the name of Dirk Hartog had the best idea.........put these types in the delightfully warm water a few miles from land & let them swim .....
He also named the land outcrop Shark Bay O0 [in what was New Holland] or as we know as on the West Coast of Western Australian
Derek
-
Derek you are heading into stormy waters with the Animal Rights folk for suggesting poisoning sharks in Australia with infected human meat :-) O0 O0 %)
john
-
BBC News: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-50550569?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR1Rjly03zPa1HOnTxXz3mv-hNbVyUXAjLCHNroGANWJ9bHQyD7smin8Vrs