Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Spiney on July 07, 2019, 02:25:23 pm
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Hi,
I am new to the group and to RC boat modelling but have done a few static models and RC planes. Having looked at a number of build logs I decided upon the Amati Riva kit as it just looks soooo cool.
I'm a little dubious about posting this after reading ukmike's log. If my Riva ends up anything like his I'll be more that chuffed for sure.
Anyway here is the kit as received from Hobbies in Norwich.
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(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/07/07/Aquarama.jpg)
You now also receive a four page glossy covering changes to the main instructions
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/07/07/Aquarama-2.jpg)
These parts seem a little different. It all needs painting and the 'fake' stitching seems to be a thing of the past. Like ukmike I'd really like to improve on this part however talent (or lack of) might prove to be my undoing
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/07/07/Aquarama-3.jpg)
Unlike others I've opted for the Amati supplied motorising kit. This is because everything else I've built used a good old internal combustion engine and I'm still getting to grips with all this electrickery stuff. I did ask the suppler for details of what was included but they were understandably unwilling to break into the box so for others I've included some details.
However as the ESC could be bought for about 25 Quid and the motors for less than 4 quid each, then at £150 for the hardware kit I think I've chosen a very expensive option. Ho Hum!
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/07/07/Aquarama-4.jpg)
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/07/07/Aquarama-6.jpg)
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/07/07/Aquarama-5.jpg)
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/07/07/Screenshot-2019-07-07-at-12.10.03.png)
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That looks like a very detail and quality kit. I look forward to watching it come together.
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I'm in too Spiney - hope it all goes well for you :-)
Regards,
Ray.
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Before starting in earnest I've been putting together the Hobbyzone Slipway to keep everything nice n square. Although it undoubtedly does the business I'm not as impressed as I thought I would be. In particular there are two cramps that hold the stem and stern that need very careful packing between the inside of the cramp and the boat keel before tightening as there is no adjustment for keel thickness whatsoever. If you rely on the flex in the wooden cramp to do the job it just snaps in two. I found this out the hard way of course.
It also took ages to get the Riva's keel installed in the slipway. I kinda expected everything would pretty much automatically centre and align but not so, more a case of close but not close enough without a fair amount of jiggery pokery.
Anyway that's todays gripe out of the way. Here it is installed with the very first frame in place. Don't they have a ceremony when the keel gets laid down on a ship? That's my excuse for a beer anyway...
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Don't think I've ever seen one of those slipways used before, it'll be interesting to see how you get on with it.
Regards,
Ray.
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Almost finished the frames now. Quite a slow process as each has to cure before the slipway is repositioned for the next frame and as I'm using Titebond 3 it takes a while to dry.
The slipway is doing a good job of keeping everything square but sadly I've found another problem with it. Both the face of the 'square' that holds the frames vertical and at 90 degrees to the keel and the baseboard is melamine coated, presumably to resist glue sticking the boat frame to the square as it dries. Unfortunately it does not do much of a job of preventing these parts from gluing themselves together and is so microscopically applied that it rips away from the MDF of the slipway as you try to release the square. (See picture below).
Anyway I am pleased with how it's all going together. The laser cut pieces are absolutely precise and fit together beautifully.
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Apologies for skipping a few steps, Here's where I am now. Frames all finished and the ribs added to the stern and reinforcement to the bow.
I guess that the point of the reinforcement is to add some wood to the frames upon which the planking can get a firm grip but it feels like I'm building a boat to compete in Robot Wars. This thing is gonna been indestructable!
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Great Photo looks straight as a die :-))
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Thanks Taranis, the slipway certainly helped with this and the accuracy of the kit parts makes it doubly easy.
I've now got the cabin floors and the foredeck bulwarks in place and it's beginning to take shape. The next stage after fitting some rear reinforcement will be the first of the mahogany parts making up the interior of the overnight cabin.
With regard to sealing the mahogany what do you guy's think I should use? I've seen a number of solutions posted within the group from a full on resin coat (with and without glass reinforcement), to specialist varnishes. I had in mind to french polish all the mahogany (including the hull) as it should both look stunning and the shellac should make it completely waterproof. Whilst I know it won't be as durable as a resin coat, if treated with care I would have thought it would do a good job.
Any advice gratefully received....
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G'day Spiney,Nice as it is shelak is not very water proof, if it gets wet it will disolve. You can use it as a bast coat for any other finish but as a stand alone finish it isn't up to the task.The problem with the melamine getting stuck is the tightbond, if you had not chosen such a good glue you wouldn't have a problem, if you wax the parts you don't want to glue with bees wax or even a candel or cover them with packing tape that should solve your problem.
Good luck with the build
Tim
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Thanks for the advice Ozy, I'd come to the same conclusion myself after testing on a spare mahogany board. I've now followed ukmike's lead and purchased some Le Tonkinois and I'll be varnishing inside and out with that. Didn't realise that Shellac was water soluble though :o
The boat has taken a bit of a back seat for the last few days. The town's been visited by the Pikey travellers (not the Romany bunch) and everyone's been on lockdown. They've literally stormed shops and walked away with what they want, stolen bikes from kids who were just out playing and broken into everywhere that wasn't locked and bolted. My garage has therefore been stuffed full of barbecues, trailers etc leaving no room for me to play in there. Fortunately for us (but not the next town) they've now moved on.
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Hello Spiney.
Which LeTonkinios have you bought, Clssic or Marine No.1 ?
Mike.
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Hi Mike, It's the Marine version, seemed like a no brainer as it's hardly any dearer and claims to be better. Did you ever try the Classic version?
Here is todays dumb error. The last piece I've built is the base for the rear seat, a simple structure of 4 parts, however the brackets seemed to be inaccurate resulting in the two main parts not being at 90 degrees to each other so I fixed it! Unfortunately when the glue dried and I tried fitting the assembled part to the boat I found it was never supposed to be square, doh!
Here is the part after cutting the glue line and resetting the angle to what Amati intended.
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I have used both types, the classic is excellent but a little darker in colour than the No1 and needs each coat to be completely flattened with no glossy areas otherwise it will separate in small areas.
I am currently using No.1 on my present build, which is on hold at the moment, due to a refurb job on an Amati Aquarama sent to me from France as the varnish
is a bit of a mess.
If you don't apply LeTonk properly it will bite you and break your heart.
Let me know if you need any tips that may help when you get to the varnishing
Mike.
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Thanks Mike, any advice from someone who's been there before would be very welcome.
I have started to seal the interior parts prior to cutting them out as I thought this would be far easier than trying to do so once in place. When they get fixed to the boat I'll then give each part a final coat to make sure everything is well sealed around the edges. I'm planning on around 4 coats for the interior parts and at least double that once I get to the exterior planking. This final coat will (I think) be cut with a small amount of Gelomat aiming for a satin finish.
Cheers
Nigel (AKA Spiney)
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A satin finished Riva, that's novel, Carlo will be turning in his grave :-)
Mike.
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Quite a bit of progress since the last post. Have now installed the mahogany cabin sides and the forward bulkhead.
The reason I went for for the satin finish Mike is that I think it looks more 'real' at this kind of scale. There's absolutely no doubt that your model is correct just that I think a satin finish gives a better illusion of correctness. (and it also helps hide a few imperfections to boot) :-)
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Last job today was to start with the leather look parts (as described in the instructions).
Perhaps they've changed this material as I thought it did a passable job of looking right and I had no problem with glueing it using the instant stuff.
Carpeting the floor was a bit of a faff, I first tried making a paper template which came out a complete mess so resorted to tacking down the first edge and working slowly forward from there. The results aren't perfect and will require a little tidying here and there but fairly pleased nonetheless.
As for the leather panels making up the footrests and forward bulkheads I had to make a bit of a guess. The instructions suggest you just cover some card templates with the leather like and glue on, however I guessed that these parts were probably removable on the real thing and probably padded too. Instead of the using card directly I used them as templates and made the pieces from 1/16th balsa rolled at the edges to look as if they are padded.
No idea if I'm right but quite pleased with the look of them anyhow.
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Wasn't too happy with the way the rear bench seat support looked as the removable part didn't quite line up with the parts fixed to the boat, this was accentuated when I applied the fake leather and looked plain horrible, so I used the same idea as the footrests and applied a piece of covered balsa the whole width of the seat thereby covering up the joins.
I am also not too happy with the way the fake leather looks where it cuts against the mahogany cabin sides and in the entrance to the overnight cabin so I am preparing some spare mahogany strips which I'll apply at the cuts. Thanks to UK Mike's large scale Riva log for the inspiration for this albeit in his case I'm sure it was for authenticity and not to hide anything untoward!
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Dashboard and sundeck supports now in place, no issues here
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Just found my first problem with the kit. I guess it's something that most here will not have run into as it concerns the supports for the motors and reduction gearing. Note part 183 is missing a notch. Obviously a simple job to fix......
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Final job today is to prepare the motors and prop shafts which went together pretty straightforwardly. However does anyone have any idea what the parts are in the second picture? They are not mentioned in the dis-tructions? Hate having bits left over when you don't know what they are!
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Obviously bushes of some kind, but without a size it's difficult to offer a view. I assume you have bushes in both ends of your prop shaft tubes? Are they of a size that would slide over the prop shafts?
Greg
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Thanks Greg, They do slide over the prop shaft and if I do so from the prop end then they also slide to a half way point over the shaft tube, but only if I slide them rounded end first which just looks kinda wrong. There's also no real seal over the prop shaft, it's quite a loose fit so I can't see what benefit they would have. There is a bush of sorts at each end of the shaft tube already but again they are a very loose fitting kind of affair. I had assumed that the whole caboodle relied on a fairly thick grease to stop the wet stuff?
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Much happier with the cockpit now I've put the mahogany trim on.
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Motors and shafts trial fitted, quite a squeeze getting them in. One advantage of the layout with reduction gears is that it frees up the space under the rear bench seat where the motors would otherwise be. If it doesn't upset the trim I might use that for the battery?
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Am thinking about installing nav lights and have ordered some LED's and a receiver based relay to switch them on/off via the radio. The nav fitting supplied by Amati is now a solid metal affair so I've made a start on grinding away space for the LED's will finish the job when the LED's arrive.
Apologies for the naff photo's the small camera seems to struggle with macro stuff
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There is a bush of sorts at each end of the shaft tube already but again they are a very loose fitting kind of affair. I had assumed that the whole caboodle relied on a fairly thick grease to stop the wet stuff?
That doesn't sound right, but without seeing it it's difficult to be certain. The bushes in the tube should be a press fit so they are firmly in place (they should fit inside the tube and you shouldn't be able to remove them with your fingers), and should be a good fit around the shaft so that it can spin easily but with no sideways movement. If the bushes are loose in the tube or the shaft can be moved sideways, then I think you will experience a big vibration when running as well as water ingress up the tube. I guess all this stuff came with the kit?
Greg
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Thanks Greg, it did all come as part of the kit and your feedback is really appreciated as this is my first boat build. I have fired off an email to Amati regarding the rubber bits but not holding my breath for a reply as it's continental holiday time and their website didn't exactly encourage questions.... Maybe tomorrow I'll have a crack at macro photographing the prop end of the tube.....
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Hi Greg (n anyone else who fancies chipping in) regarding keeping water out of the stern tube. I did wonder if a little PTFE tape wound around the prop shaft before it goes into the tube would be a good idea? However after sleeping on it that would not work, neither would any other idea that requires periodic maintenance because once installed, the propshaft, gearbox and motor will be in the boat for life. It's a real struggle getting the assemble in and out as it is and once the stern tube is epoxied into the hull it will be completely impossible to remove.
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This is what it looks like once removed. There is an oiler to inject some kind of slippery stuff. On the right hand side there's a nylon sleeve where the shaft exits the tube which is about as good a fit around the shaft as the other end, i.e. not great.
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These pics show the business end of the tube and the last one shows the mysterious rubber piece that I've asked Amati to identify. In the orientation shown it does slide over the shaft and over the tube but the gap between the shaft and rubber piece is no different that the gap between the shaft and the nylon tube end.
I don't want to overplay the fit of these parts, there's no gaping gap there but there is a discernible amount of play that water will have no problem breaching at all.
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And lastly the instructions.
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I can't see anything on the instructions regarding the plastic / rubber pieces - were they there just to protect the ends of the tubes during transit?
(a bit like the ones you get on lengths of metal rods)
Regards,
Ray.
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If they were then someone forgot to fit them, they came in a plastic bag......
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Ahh, wasn't aware of that though :-X
Regards,
Ray.
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That propshaft looks a bit crude for the money, considering it's a "high speed" application, it really ought to have something like the brass bushes at either end you see in the likes of the caldercraft fineline. You get away with a tube and shaft on smaller things like plastic kit conversions and stand-off cheap models.
The only thing I could think of for the 2 rubber grommets was where your shaft slides down the slots in your bulkhead after the motor. It's almost conceivable they're "centralisers"? But I'm not seeing them in anyone elses pics on Google either.
Rich
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That's a really creative call Rich based on my pictures, unfortunately only one end of the rubber bit slides over the tube, the other end is a fit for the shaft. So without surgery you can't slide it more that a few mm over the tube.
I'm becoming more and more convinced that they are in the pack for some other application or by accident. If Amati do ever get back to me with an answer I will post it here though.....
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Could they be a seal for the rudder tubes and shafts?
Jim
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Just a thought - are they meant to isolate the motor from the motor mount to reduce noise?
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I also thought that, also if they're resilient mounts for the motor mount to the wood, but you'd expect 4. I also wondered if they were inserts for A or P brackets, but rubber on a fast rotating shaft no good. Also, post a pic of the rudder arrangement. They might be grommets for that. Otherwise I might put them in that spares box, sneeze and lose them, or throw them over my shoulder and move on. Now't like modelling to find out you disregarded that critical part that should have been fitted in a part you can't get to. It's part of the fun, LoL. We've all been there.
Rich
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Thanks everyone for your creative ideas, no word back yet from Amati....
In the meantime I've turned my thoughts to the nav lights and docking lamps because once I start planking I won't be able to run the wiring I need down the boat. I'm not so great at the really small scale stuff these days, something to do with fat fingers and glasses I suppose. Anyway I was determined to have a go and ordered some receiver controlled switches that I will connect to channels 5 and 6 on the radio and found some red, green and white nano leds that are unbelievably bright and should show up in daylight pretty well. I can't actually see the leds they are so small and fortunately come pre wired with the resistors soldered in line with the cable.
So after quite a bit of grinding, drilling and filling here is the result....
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Not quite done yet as I have to fabricate some kind of clear plastic cover to wrap around the front which I'll nick from a drink bottle of some kind. The wiring for all lights will emerge from the front cabin and terminate on a small pcb (veroboard) that will get fixed behind the dashboard. This is the only way I could think to do the job without having the nav light wired in before finishing the rest of the boat which would certainly have been a recipe for disaster...
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Today has been a lot of work for little visible reward. I've been trying to decide where all the electrics are going to live and making up a few plywood parts to support them. After installing the fabricated pieces I've given the internals a decent coat of varnish to seal the wood that I won't be able to get to pretty soon.
Here's a question......
The instructions say that after trial fitting the motors, shafts and various other bits that they are then removed to be refitted after all the planking is finished at the end of the build. However it's very clear that with the motor and gearbox arrangement that I have it is only possible to install the main parts before the planking goes on. My question is therefore, how unusual is it to plank around the stern tubes rather than to plank first and then cut holes for the planking?
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Hi Spiney
I guess the choice is yours mate. Planking around anything can be tricky but it is doable but takes patience and the results can be really nice. However you could also cut the holes after planking but run the risk of either drilling incorrectly or splitting the wood. But it could also go great without any issues. The choice is yours and I'm sure that many replies would give you many different options. Your build is lovely so good luck with what ever you chose and please keep the updates coming
Mark
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Thanks Mark, very kind. Unfortunately the choice isn't mine. Unless I'm missing something it's the only option I've got. I just wanted the reassurance that this has been done before and that it is doable, which is exactly what you've given me. :-))
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In that case if you have to plank around something make some templates out of cardboard to get the correct shape. Its a lot cheaper than wasting expensive wood. I sometimes have to make 3 or 4 templates until I get it right but its worth the effort. Good luck!
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Today I'm still sorting out the electrics, almost done and I think I now have a home for everything. Last major job was to complete a little Veroboard PCB to hold the radio switches for the lights. Everything looked good till the last job which was connecting the the 4 core cable which I ran from the forward cabin down the boat only to find that it cannot be soldered. Fair enough I suppose as it's telephone cable that is intended to have crimped connectors but I've never come across wire that can't be soldered. Can't even tin it, Doh...
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Six core wire as used in household burglar alarm systems can be soldered.
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Thanks Shadysadie, Waiting for Amazon to knock at the door with various bits including wire.. Thanks for the heads up though.....
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Wire arrived and all the electrics are now complete save for a few cable ties to keep everything in its place. The main battery (I'm using a separate receiver battery) will probably go in between the motors and the esc however I'll not install any fixings for it until I've at least tried it in the bath as I'm a little concerned about the weight so high in the boat. If I think that'll be a problem then the battery will go under the rear seat just forward of the motors.
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Last job today was to get the LEDs for the mooring lights installed and wired through. Made a few schoolboy errors along the way including dropping one LED on the garage floor which seems to have vanished for good, blew up another LED when I forgot to install the resistor, and whilst I was poking around with a volt meter trying to diagnose that problem I managed to short the battery through the LED lead I was holding and now have a nice burn line in my finger. {:-{ Good job I had a few spare LEDs to hand.
Woes now all forgotten when that last test showed that all the electrics work as planned.....
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The next stage is to prepare the still square and rough bulkheads for planking by removing copious quantities of wood and preparing a skeleton on which the planks will lay smoothy. At the bow this involves being pretty aggressive with the dremel although the further back you go the less wood there is to remove. I'm judging how near I am to the correct depth by leaving a small amount of the dark laser cut edges still showing.
I've now glued in the mooring lights using a piece of planking to judge the correct position and the first bow section will then be hand sanded to shape once the glue for the mooring lights has dried.
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Yesterday I fitted the first pair of planks, one at the chine and one at the keel. The chine planks went OK but the keel planks were completely misshapen by the clamps. Where I was trying to squeeze the planks together whilst the glue dried I'd applied rather too much pressure and the clamps had lifted the planks at the boats centreline away from the frames. I tried and tried to make the best of a bad job but eventually ripped, sanded and planed them off. I guess because I had so many clamps holding everything together I just didn't see what was happening underneath!
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Today I tried a different approach for the keel planks and resorted to CA glue to get them lined up and attached after which I've squeezed Tightbond between and behind the planks, right or wrong it's certainly looking rather better than it did when I took the clamps off this morning!
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By the way UK Mike, I was re-reading your Riva log last night and saw your picture of the horizontal stern piece that gave you problems. Do you think that Amati were monitoring your progress as this seems to have been fixed. Here's a couple of pictures of the stern before and after a quick sand....
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Just checking these still work before I can't get to the wiring behind the planking...
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And the next pair of planks
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Had a few days away in Cambridge so took a break from planking for a while. For the most part it seems to be going OK but fitting the planks around the stern tubes is proving to be quite difficult. I think that at some stage Amati changed from direct drive to geared drive but failed to go back and see what effect that had on the build, having to plank around the tubes in situ is not covered at all in the instructions and if I'm ever faced with the same situation again I'll do everything I can to find a way to fit the planks first and cut the stern tube exits out last. Moan over, here are a few pictures of progress so far....
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HELP PLEASE
A question if I may for anyone who's built one of these....
Frame numbers 6 & 7 close to the bow have a small step cut into them. This notch or step follows the line where the sides and bottom of the boat meet. My question is, should the planking follow this step or is it there simply to show where the first plank should be fixed. If the step were any more pronounced I'd be pretty sure that it should be replicated during planking but as shown below it's so small that it will be really difficult not to lose it after two layers of planks have been fixed and sanded smooth?
Cheers
Nigel
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Hello,
I am in the process of building this boat but it is for now and then when I get time! If I remember corectly you should lay a plank along this line from front to back on both sides as shown in the boek. This is the overgang from bottom to side. I am also using the Amati drive set and layed planks upto the inside of the propshafts then took the shafts out. When you lay the next plank you have an idee where the shaft comes out and trim the plank first then afterwoods make the right size with a round rasp. Uk Mike has given help in the past and his build blog is eerste klasse! I recommend reading it.
Hoop it goes well for you.
Mvg Andre
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Spinney, from your fotos this part looks ok.
(https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/blob:https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/f523ad2b-8495-42af-a52c-5e8f151582cb)
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Thanks Andre, UK Mike's build was one of the reasons for buying the kit in the first place and I've read it at some length. He used his own drive set and mine does not allow me to remove the shafts one planking started. I'm passed that stage now but thanks for the steer....
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Thanks to Mark T who wins the prize for best suggestion for my mysterious rubber grommets (on page 2).
I finally received a reply from Amati (via the shop that supplied the kit) who had this to say.
"I’m sorry for the delay. These two rubber pcs. are not necessary, you will note in the new motor set they are not included.
Modelers are free to use them or not, they were included to attenuate vibrations but they don’t work very well."
Just a thought - are they meant to isolate the motor from the motor mount to reduce noise?
For anyone else who decides to build this kit I would definitely advise against getting the Amati hardware to go with it, the vibrations that Amati mention above are better described as a horrible clatter and as I've mentioned before, none of the running gear can be removed once installed.
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Hi Spiney,
Having bread what you had to say about the motors & propshafts I decided to just loosely connect mine up and see what happens.
The noise and vibrations are unbelievable and I had to turn it off after a couple of tests in each direction.
Normally I would buy motors & propshafts etc apart but as this motorisation was from Amati I thought it would be good Quality.
I have just contacted Cornwall Model Boats about this but they have not heard of any problems. They suggested e-mailing Amati which is what I will do although I doubt this will offer a solution.
The only alternative now is cut the propshafts out of the hull and start again.
To echo Spineys words do not buy the Amati motor kit for the Aquarama!!!!!
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Andjo......are you able to photograph and post images of the motors & mountings, couplings and propeller shaft tube assemblies?
Such resonant vibrations & noise is usually attributed to mechanical/alignment issues......
Derek
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Thanks Derek, Quite a few photographs on page 2. It's not alignment causing the problem, just a poor gear set and shafts that are a poor fit in the shaft tube bushes. I suspect that this model is destined to spend most of its life as a static and that I'll build something else for the grandsons to play with.
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Hello Derek,
Thanks for your interest. I have just spent 2 hours checking and testing and as Spinney said nothing seems to fit properly. Both the inner shafts are slightly bent and for the rest well!!!!!!!!!!!
I shall be spending some time with the Dremel and removing the motors and shafts and start again. It's not impossible but needs patience which I have a lot of. Maybe this is an option for you to Spinney.
Regards Andre
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Just a thought - As your propshaft tubes are already installed could you not modify these? Could the plastic bearings at each end be removed and replaced by brass ones with a new shaft running through the centre? There are a few companies that supply propshaft's that I've heard mentioned on here may be able to help you. It would save ripping the complete shafts out of the hull.
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Spiney, it is not my intention to hijack your blog but I thought this might help you get it in the water!!
All the old out, reuse the motors (budget) and new propshafts and couplings.
Andre
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Blimey that was fast work!
Many thanks for the suggestion but I think I'll continue with what I have. I have been thinking that as a 'toy' for the grandkids this was never going to have been that suitable as it is supposed to to be a bit of a wet boat on the water and the seals to stop water getting to the electrics give away the original Amati intention of a static model.
For the kids I rather fancy a big huntsman with loads of room to be creative with the running gear!
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Spiney,
Been there done that, 46" Huntsman, loads of room inside.
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Where are we with this now Spiney? I hope your are well, its been a while :P
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Hi Taranis, Indeed it has been a while, the boat is in the workshop in pretty much the same state as the last post. Although I really like the look of the model it weighs an absolute ton and I've not even started on the second planking layer yet. As the excuse for building it was for the grandson to sail I decided that the likely all up weight would make it too much of a handful and kinda lost interest. If I was starting over again I'd heavily modify the build and get as much weight out of it as possible and install my own power plant to boot. Hopefully I'll be back at some point with another build no doubt inspired by some of your builds (I do fancy an RNLI inspired craft myself).
Thanks for the interest and hope to be back soon.......
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Aah well good to know you’re ok. A shame about the build. Amati are static display specialists and they fail to give advice on the two models that have RC options about weight
I might see if I can add more holes in mine before it’s too late