Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: JimS59 on July 24, 2019, 08:52:09 pm
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Hello All, thought I would post a project that I'm just starting. A friend gave me a 1930's pond yacht, she is 4' long 10" wide and 9.5" from base of keel to deck. She looks a bit worse for wear after spending very many years at the back of a shed, she has no mast or sails no hatch cover, but has most of the deck fittings, I think :-) (the fittings look hand made, but I maybe wrong about that).
My thought is to bring her back to her former glory, I just need to sort a few things first :-) the deck is stained, cracked and warpped, a few hull planks have opened up. The varnish (or what's left of it) is bubbled and looks like sandpaper. So I have a way to go with her and a step learning curve as I know practically zero about yachts. I'm still on the quest to find out what type of yacht she is.. {:-{
I'm going to start with removing the deck fittings and the deck, inspect the braces and beams. My intention is to replace the deck with a sub deck and planked out a main deck, using mahogany and bass.
Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.
Regards Jim
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Hi All, Fittings and deck removed, spiders now rehomed and all the debris from over the years removed. Started to sand the hull and found some original or old renovation repairs. I am going to put in a few extra beams to strenthen the deck area.
Update on her type: Russell Potts from the VMYG, has suggested that is may very well be a 1930's 10- r and has suggested a few books that may help by the authors Daniel's and Tucker. So it's a visit to the library for me 🙂
Jim
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Hi All, I am looking for 10mm copper nails, I will be needing quite a few. I have looked on many websites with no luck. Can anyone tell me were I may get them, or a possible way yo fabricate them.
Many Jim
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Hi Jim we do not use nails much now. Billings were probably the the last kit suppllier to have them. Also do you mean copper? I know there are small brass nails.
Tell us about your old lady. Do you have any photos?
kind regards
Roy
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Any good? - https://hurst-iw.co.uk/products/holt-marine-copper-tacks-various-sizes?variant=12970536173623
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Hi Guys thanks for the reply, I have started a thread TLC For The old Lady. Some of the photos on there show the nail heads. Unfortunately there are a few replacements needed, As I'm attempting to keep her as close to original as possible. With exception to the deck ( its beyond repair ).
Martin, thank you for the link :} they look the ticket. I will send for some and 8f all is right 8 will purchase more.
Jim
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Hi All, latest update on the progress, as I haven't a workshop to speak of or a bench big enough to accomodate The Old Lady. I am at the mercy of the good old British weather and my work area is the garden table. So further updates may take some time. 🙂.
I have started to cut the 48g fiberglass to strengthen the inside of the hull, I measured the length of the inside curve of the hull and width between the frames using a piece of copper wire and cut the fibreglass to size. Then l had to think of a way I could thread the fibreglass underneath the stringers, so I used low tack sticky paper ( postits in this case )to adear to the fibreglass then I could pull it gently through. It took me a while but I finally finished it. 🙂
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I am hoping that you are going to use epoxy and that you fully prepared the wood before laying the cloth in place.
Might I suggest that you initially mix a small quantity and see how long it takes to fully whet out each section. You really don't want to feel the need to rush before the epoxy goes off as I suspect that to do a good whetting out will take time.
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Hi Chaps, just to say the copper nails came today, they are the correct length but unfortunately not the correct diameter. I am still on the quest for 3/64 x 3/8 copper nails.
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Do we need 2 threads on this - it is just confusing.
Other thread:
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,63422.msg671120/topicseen.html?PHPSESSID=4cv7dv2bcrvej438uqaj9jeek0#msg671120
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Duplicate please delete
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Topics Merged. :-))
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Hi Tug Fantastic, thanks for the info, the chap at the retailer recommended I use a polyester resin as it has up to 24hr cure time, so that should give me time to get the matting into place. I am taking your advice and planning to start amidship as the cloth is easier to manoeuvre in to position.
May I ask if anyone thinks it better to use epoxy as apposed to polyester resins as with no great experiance with this I dont want to start with the wrong stuff.
Many thanks for the merge Martin.
Jim
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I would use epoxy but it doesn't mean others wouldn't use polyester. 24hr cure time does not mean 24hr working time.
You stated above that you are working in the garden but not where you are storing the model unless I missed it. Polyester stinks, & I mean really stinks. My better half would say that you couldn't possibly keep it in the house. This job might well go on for some time. Steady temperature & humidity matter so consider where you are going to store it.
How have you prepared the hull where you are putting the fibreglass?
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Hi Tug Fantastic, I take your point, and will try one section first, I have cleaned out the sections and filleted out the right angles where the frame meets the planks but that's all at the moment. Would you suggest that I give the wood a prime of resin first?
I'm storing the yacht in my shed as there is just about enough room for her, but you mentioning temp and humidity I will have to give some though to where she can go in the house. I will also take your point about the resin and get some epoxy. May save complaints from the neighbour's :-)
Cheers Jim
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Out of interest why are you putting the fibreglass on the inside of the hull rather than the outside? Many wood hulled models are now finished with epoxy & cloth on the outside which is effectively invisible.
I am hoping that someone with experience of resurrecting old models posts soon! The experience of a rebuild veteran would be very helpful. I wouldn't want to suggest anything that might not work on a rebuild as opposed to a new build.
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10mm copper "pins" are on Cornwall Model Boats website also. If you want something bomb proof I don't see an issue glassing the inside -as well as out as long as it's all dried out before skinning. I don't have anywhere dedicated to model either (not even a yard outside) so pointers towards epoxy resins are a good tip -nothing obnoxiously stinky like poyester. I find it a little easier to work with also.
Rich
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Hi Chaps, Thanks for the reply, I would like to preserve the original builders work, and keep as much of its history as possible ( all be it a bit ambitious at the moment ) I have been in touch with Russell Potts of the VMYG and he suggested fiberglassing the inerhull, and preserve the outer.
So in order to try this, I'm thinking going on his suggestion of glassing the inner hull and possibly stain and varnish the outer hull, but I'm up for any other suggestions that will do the job.. :-) [size=78%]Pleas see a couple of paragraphs from Russell's.email.[/size]
[/size]This is certainly a boat worth rescuing. The hull form matches your supposed date quite well. The size is a bit of a problem, as she is too short to be a Marblehead, a class just coming into use in the UK, which has to be 50 inches long, with 800 square inches of sail. On the other hand, though the hull form is very much what one would expect for a 10-rater of the period, she is smaller than I would expect. The level of fittings that are present suggests that she was sailed seriously in competition, so she is most likely a 10-r. This was far and away the most popoular class in hthe 1930s.[/color][/size][/font]
[/size] [/color][/size][/font]
[/size]I think that you will have to replace the deck. This is always the first part to go, because itn was the largest single piece of wood and subjet to strains as thehull moved. Also it was, at that time usually a very thin piece of pine, picture backing or the like, so not a good quality of wood to start with. Waterproof ply was not available until after 1945. While you have the deck off you could line the hull with something to make her watertight. It will have to lots of little pieces to fit between the ribs. Back in the day it was sailcloth varnished on, but you may prefer very fine glass cloth.[/color][/size][/font]
[/size]Thank you RST, I have now ordered the pins from Cornwall Model Boats as they appear to be the correct dimensions. I will also take on your and Tug Fanatics experience and get some epoxy resin..I will put the polyester resin on the shelf.
[/size]Tug Fanatic..sorry for getting your users name wrong previously, it's the auto correction on this system, I didnt realise it till a moment ago.
[/size]Regards Jim
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Tug Fantastic - I like it but modesty would stop me..............
I am pleased that you have taken expert advice.
Before applying any epoxy make sure that you have used abrasive on the existing finish to give the epoxy a good key and to remove anything loose. Remember that you are applying the epoxy to the top surface & not the wood underneath. Make sure whatever else is between the epoxy & the wood is secure. When you have finished applying the cloth I would give the whole inside a coat of epoxy to seal it including where you haven't applied cloth.
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There is another option re preservation of insides. I use stocking material and yacht varnish. Works well for me. I do not think it is much outside the original builders choices either and it is strong.
Regards,
Roy
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There is another option re preservation of insides. I use stocking material and yacht varnish. Works well for me. I do not think it is much outside the original builders choices either and it is strong.
Regards,
Roy
I have seen tights recommended for both inside & outside of hull but what of longevity? Do they fall apart like the free Tesco carrier bags used to do? Many synthetics don't like light much. Glass cloth should last for a very long time.
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Hi tug.... It is usually quite dark inside my boats! :o
I think they are made from a combination of lycra, nylon and cotton, not noticed any deterioration but I think they will outlast me.
I used this material to simulate canvas on a hatch cover looks OK after nearly 4 years.
regards,
Roy
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Thanks Tug / Roy, it's all good and very helpful advice. I want to try and keep the strenthening as transparent and as strong as possible, in order that should anyone look into the hill via the hatch they can still see the work that had gone into putting her together. So with that in mind: I am going to do some test pieces on some old wood with the glassfibre and the stocking material. And may go with the one that is the most transparent.
However if there is anyone that can suggest a matting, I will look into that too.
Regards
Jim
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Hi All, I'm giving the deck some thought and wanted others opinions. Below is a photo of a section of the original deck. The king plank and planks are all drawn by hand. I have the intention replanking the deck, but I dont know where to start with the king plank cut out as it would be on the original drawn deck.
I have also seen this deck planking (photo 2 from a build by Peony) and I recon it would be easier for me.. :embarrassed: I think it will suit the Old Lady, may I ask for your comments on my thought, or should I try and replicate the makers original planking pattern.
Cheers Jim
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Hi Jim this is a difficult one, I have an old (100 years+) pond yacht with drawn planking, I decided much as you have thought and started to remove it. I regret doing this now and it is partly scraped off looking for a better idea.
I recently restored an old (80 years) boat with a pencilled in deck and carefully enhanced the faded pencil lines and a gentle scrape with a sharp carpet knife blade improved it no end. It is what it is!
You could re-plank the deck and that will all be new with an old hull underneath. Is it possible to keep the top of the deck and put a sheet of ply strengthening under the deck? I feel all the holes in the deck are honorable ones and now I just plug with similar coloured wood, making no attempt to hide them.
You can probably see what look like brush marks in the wood, if these are gently scraped off, then re varnish by putting a cotton cloth over a finger and smoothing the varnish, which should be slightly thinned, over the deck do not allow to puddle.
If you do re-plank, in the past I have glued in the king plank fore and aft, and it should be twice the width of the other planks.
Work from the outside coming inwards from deck edge. I think this is the only way to get the most noticeable planks looking correct.
I soak the planks put some pins in and some weight to keep the planks flat, doing both sides one after the other. Allow for drying. I cut the King plank waste from the shape of the deck plank. Look at a photo to see what I mean. the deck plank should be cut at right angles placed over the king plank where it meets.
Measure one third of the width of the plank and note where the king plank edge is and cut down with a sharp chisel blade through the deck plank and the king plank, then cut the king plank at the end of the deck plank, fish out the king plank waste and you should have a perfect fit for the plank all nicely 'joggled' in place.
Pin holes in the planking can be restored by a drop of water over the hole which will enable the wood to swell and hide after a few hours.
regards,
Roy
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Hi Roy, Thanks for the information. I take your point about a new deck on an old hull, and I would love to retain the old deck. But as you may see the photos show how bad it is. its warped in several places and has a few cracks the longest one is nearly from bow to the hatch opening, so in effect splitting it in half. The last photo shows masking tape I have put on to try and keep it together. There are sever water marks and what looks like oil spill patches and a bit of sun bleaching.
I have thought about submerging the deck in a bath of water over night and then sandwiching it between completely flat surfaces and placing very heavy paving slabs on it for a week , somewhere out of the weather. If I could get away with that to some degree then I stand a better chance in trying to re store the original deck all be it with oil and water stains..🙂
So saying that and as I'm in no rush I may try that just to see if it will work, but also start to fabricate a new deck just in case.
I will also practice the planking.. :}
Regards Jim
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Hi Jim,
I thought I would add my three penny worth in response to your request for advice.
My wife and I are both members of the Vintage Model Yacht Group and have restored a number of vintage yachts over the last 10 years. There are lots of differing opinions about the best way to restore a hull and most of them will work but some are better than others. Our concerns about you proposed approach is that it may add significant weight to the hull and it will not stop the water penetrating the wooden planking from the outside.
We prefer to rub down the hull dry if possible. You can use Nitromors to remove paint or varnish but its messy and its difficult to clean it all off if it gets between the planks. Repair any major cracks or gaps between the planks using either Araldite or aliphatic resin
Our method is to clad the outside of the hull with glass cloth, typically about 50 grm/sq m, usually from Bucks Composites, The cloth will drape well over the hull with a few strategic nips and tucks where there is a large change in section. Woven cloth drapes much better than tissue mat. Lightly spraying the hull with Spraymount adhesive helps hold the cloth in place as you start applying the resin. A major advantage of this method is you don't need to remove the deck if its OK, although in your case it looks as though a new deck is the only viable option.
The resin we use is is Z-poxy finishing resin, thinned with about 25% isopropanol. It penetrates the cloth and wood well and gives a reasonable working time of about 15-20 minutes, depending on how warm it is. We use a small set of jeweller's scales to weigh out the mixture proportions directly into the working container, usually a Sainsbury's carbonara sauce pot. Usually 2 coats are enough although sometime 3 are required. The resin is easy to sand down to a smooth finish. After that its either prime and paint or gloss varnish the hull. The cloth is virtually invisible after varnishing, you would not know its there unless someone told you.
We have tried various methods of treating the inside of the hull but we prefer to allow it to breathe after the outside has been effectively sealed with the epoxy. Possible options are Teak oil, linseed oil or turpentine, as recently used by a friend of ours with promising results.
Here are a couple of photos of a recently restored Marblehead hull in the process of being draped in glass cloth and then after varnishing.
With regard to lining the deck, I wrote an article on our approach to this for the Turning Pole (the journal of the VMYG). If you can send me your email address I will forward you a copy.
Gareth
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Hi Gareth, Thank you for your reply, the information is very helpful and the result on your Marblehead is very impressive. It's the sort of finish that I would like to see the Old Lady wear.
Can you please tell me how much resin would you typical use on a boat the size of your Marblehead, as you do multiple coats.
I would very much like to read your article ..PM sent.🙂
Best Regards Jim
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Hi Jim,
I would guess we use about 40-50 ml of resin for one coat of a Marblehead. The first coat usually takes the most as the wood and cloth soak it up, Subsequent coats are usually somewhat less. I would guess a 10 Rater would take around 60-70 ml and you would probably have to just mix up enough resin to do each side separately to avoid it going off before you have finished.
Do not worry about being unable to remove the keel unless it is loose. We would be inclined to cover that with cloth and resin as well as it helps to eliminate the cracks that tend to appear along the joint between the lead and the wood.
I should point out that all the work on the Marblehead in the pictures was by my wife. She is definitely the expert varnisher in the family, having been taught the secrets by a master of the art, the late Alan Wyatt of Kirklees MBC. I usually make the metal fittings, add the radio controls and do the final rigging. We tend to make all our large 'class' racing yachts dual control with the option sailing them under radio control or with Braine or vane steering as appropriate to their age. I believe yours would have originally been Braine steered.
Regards
Gareth
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Hi All, just to say that I have decided to go with Gareth's advice and fiberglass the exterior of the hull, and attempt (that being the operative word) to get a similar result.
So on whent the first coat of varnish stripper.. :-)
Thank you Gareth for the helpfull information and the artical on lining. Have you given any thought to posting it on this forum? It is a really informative and a well written article.
Jim
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Hi Jim,
I am glad you found the deck lining article interesting and useful. As far as I am aware the Mayhem forum does not really lend itself to publishing articles, although I suppose the information could be put on in the form of a blog. The deck lining article and many similar 'how to do it' articles (not all by me I hasten to add) have been published in the Turning Pole, the journal of the Vintage Model Yacht Group over the last 20 years or so. Membership of the organisation costs £20 per year and new members receive a CD with all the back issues of the Turning Pole, which is published twice a year. We have considered publishing some of this sort of information on the VMYG website, http://www.vmyg.org.uk (http://www.vmyg.org.uk) but so far there has been no progress on the project. I will try and encourage the committee to give the idea some more thought, but one of the major problems is finding someone in the membership with the time, knowledge, energy and inclination to get on and do these things.
I don't know what your plans are with regard to fitting radio control but I have written a couple of other articles for the Turning Pole, one on rudder controls and one on fitting sail winches in Vintage Yachts. If you would like copies of them I could forward them to you.
Regards
Gareth
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Hello Gareth I have sent you a PM.
regards
Roy
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Hi All, The old varnish is now off and as the weather is slowly closing my workshop {:-{ I am now looking at cleaning the fittings. After many year the grim has accumulated I can see that the duraglit is going to take a bashing. :} and mentioning bashing, I think the Brains needs a wee bit of straightening.
Gareth, I have never sailed a yacht, but i am intrested in finding out more about installing rc., I have also looked at the VMYG site and may consider signing up for a membership. And yes please i would very much like to take up your offer on the copies of the articles. Thank You
Jim
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Nice fittings you have there. A good soaking in a domestic cleaner helps, with an old toothbrush for getting in the corners.
Tomato sauce has tamarind in it and this cleans up brass very well!
I used to use Viacom but now they have taken out the sulphuric acid it is only so-so. White vinegar is another cleaner albeit a bit slow. Duraglit for finish sounds OK.
regards,
Roy
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Thanks Roy, The Duraglit didnt make a great impression. However during that cleaning process, I uncovered farthings as part of the steering gear O0 I dont know if there is any significance in it or it's just what the original builder used at the time, but I would be interesting to know.
I have now put the fitting in tomato sauce, I will leave them there for a few hours and then inspect the progress.
Cheers Jim
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Hi All, Managed to get all the grim off the fittings ( Thank you Roy the tomato sauce worked a treat). I did find that the fittings were once nickel plated, and over time had deteriorated. So I gave them a bath in good old oven cleaner for 20 minutes, then a gentle rub down with light wire wool. Some of the fittings need repair/replacing and the quadrent turned out to be made off copper. Some of them are in need of repair/replacing and the pullys have seased {:-{
I'm thinking of re-platting them to keep with the original build. But I need to know: if the deck fittings were platted would the gooseneck and other fittings on the mast and jib also be of nickel platted?.
Gareth, I have decided after reading your article to go with RC, so if you dont mind, would it be ok if I sent you a PM about that?
Jim
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Go ahead with the PM Jim, I will look out for it.
Gareth
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Hi All, Just a bit of a catchup with a snippet of news regarding the Old Lady, after talking to the chap (over a pint) who so kindly gave me her. He relayed that she had been rescued by his uncle from the amminity tip in the Portsmouth area along with another smaller boat, back in the early seventies. Unfortunately the smaller boat had been put on the bonfire several years later due to woodworm and then the Old Lady had been given to my friend. He also told me that the yachts name is Edith as its inscribe on the hatch cover. The cover is yet to be found as it is still in the back of of his shed somewhere and as soon as he finds it, he will give it to me and then they will be as one again.
Given that information I will be renaming her "The Old Lady Edith" :} I h[size=78%]ave also been locking into fitting RC into her (Thank you Gareth for the information) and have decided to install a removable system. However I am in need of some information regarding the mast, jib, and boom. After reading some information in the post by Royc, the rule of thumb is that the mast should be approximately 25percent longer than the hull, so that would make the mast 60" tall the boom between 18 and 20 " with the jib at 10 to 12". [/size]
[/size][size=78%]Can anyone put me right with this wee problem or is there an equation that can be employed? [/size]
[/size][size=78%]Here are her dimensions LOA 48" Beam 10" Depth 9 and 3/4".[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Many Thanks Jim[/size]
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Hi Jim I think I would miss out the 'old' from the name. 'The Lady Edith' sounds so much nicer, no Ladies like to be reminded of their age you know.
May I sugest you put a data history inside the hull for the next owner?
regards
Roy
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Hi Jim,
My wife restored a yacht of similar dimensions to your Old Lady Edith, but we have never established whether it is a 10 Rater or a 6M class. It is 48 inches long and 10.75 inches beam and was built around 1939 to a plan in a hobbies magazine of that era. Elizabeth was given it as a collection of loose parts after the previous owner attempted a restoration and then gave up. As it came to us it had an exceptionally tall mast, I would guess around 84 inches including the under deck section. It also had an exceptionally tall narrow suit of sails (too dilapidated to use). We have a photo of the original builder alongside the yacht and these did seem similar proportion sails. I have attached a photo of the hull, taken side on as we got it. The jib boom is 14.5 inches and the main is 20.75 inches long
Initially we sailed it with a newish set of Marblehead sails, 800 sq inches total area and about 65 inches mainsail luff. The second photo shows the grand daughter of the original builder alongside the restored yacht when fitted with these sails. Subsequently we have cut down the mast to 76 inches total length and it has been fitted with an older set of sails which we think are more in keeping with the yacht. If I get a chance tomorrow I will rig it and post a photo as it is now.
If you are able to bring the yacht along to Gosport on Bank Holiday Monday it is possible that someone may be able to identify its class or remember it, if it came from the Portsmouth area. However it is a bit of a long shot.
Gareth
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Hey, I've just stumbled across this blog and I am fascinated by it. I've done a few rebuilds myself but nothing as old as this one.
Looking forward to seeing more of your updates :-)
Regards,
Ray.
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Hi, just measured my 27 inch loa yacht and mast height is 42 inches from the deck. Refering previously my 25 % ball park figure was for scale yachts, not class or pond yachts. This figure is nearer 50%.
I think the big difference may be that you need to get the sails up high as the wind speed slows at ground level. Witness, lay down in a wind and the wind speed decreases noticeably.
regards
Roy
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Hi Roy,
Here is a photo of Spindrift as it is now with the cut down mast and an old set of sails, adapted from another set we had. The top of the mast is 71 inches above the deck level and the main sail luff is 62 inches. The foot of the jib and mainsail are both wider than the Marblehead set we used initially and the total sail area is about 900 sq inches. It is not intended that Spindrift complies with any particular set of class rules. I think its most likely to be a 6 Metre class design, but the 6M class rules are pretty complicated and I have never tried to confirm that.
Regards
Gareth
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Hello Gareth, my, she looks really nice, well done. Thanks for the extra detail and tips in your email, all good stuff I had not thought of.
The paint I have does not look too shiny I will see how it goes. Most of the car acrylics need an additional spray of varnish to harden them up. I will let you know what happens.
I have arm and sail winches to hand but am going with an arm winch using a metal geared servo Tower Pro R 946. Just using its' 90 degree movement, sheets doubled up with a pulley to the main and direct to the jib.
This servo has a 13Kgrm pull at 1cm so at 10 cms 1.3 Kgrms, more than enough.
I have a redundant set of sails from an Aeronaut Bella yacht which are a perfect fit, got to do a bit of sewing though as there is a jackstay on the mast.
She will end up almost a Half M which Vic Smeed tried to promote way back.
best regards
Roy
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Hi Roy, I take your point about dropping the old in renaming her. And will go with your suggestion :-))
Gareth I do agree with Roy, you have made a splendid jog of the Spindrift she looks really good.
Also looking at the dimension you gave for the yacht your wife rebuilt, it is very close to The Lady Edith, and I will duplicate your mast, jib and doom sizes and they are near Roy's suggestion of 50 percent. And if they need any adaptation I will start again.
I have read in a book "Model Sailing Yaghts" 1951 by Daniels and Tucker on construction of masts, jibs and booms. However I'm still thinking where to source the correct wood and at the appropriate length. Looking on the internet the only thickness I can get close to the size I require is 19mm, and that would mean alot of work getting it down to 15mm.So I'm thinking a size closer would be nice. :} has anyone got any links?
Today I took advantage of a break in the weather and have put the first coat of dye on The Lady Edith. If the weather lasts over the weekend, I should have the varnish on.
Jim
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Hi Jim one point illustrated by Spindrift is to form a nice line between the base of jib to follow the line of the Mainsail. Looks so much better like that. Also if/when you fit bowsies in the shrouds keep them low and level
Roy
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Thank you Roy, I will keep that in mind :-))
Jim
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Gareth, can you please tell me, what is the taper on the mast of Spindrift?
Many thanks
Jim
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Hi Jim,
The mast on Spindrift is in two sections joined by a pair of sliding fit brass tubes where the cross tree/spreader sits, 1200 mm above the deck. The bottom section of the mast starts at 15 mm diameter at deck level, tapering down to 13 mm at the brass tube joiner. The top section of the mast is 600 mm long and is approx 11.5 mm diameter at the brass tube joiner and 10.3 mm diam at the top.
Normally a spreader would be fitted about 55% of the mast length up from the deck level but because we cut down the top section of the mast on Spindrift, the spreader has ended up at about 67% of the mast height but its not that critical for an old yacht where ultimate performance and efficiency is not required.
Are you still planning to cover the outside of the hull with glass cloth and resin?
Regards
Gareth
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Thank you Gareth,
That is very useful information. I had been thinking of making a two part mast, as described in the book that I'm reading. By useing rectangular wood sections, gouged out and glued together before tapering, as the original may have been made. However saying that, while collecting a few things from Wickes I noticed that they sold 15mm x 2.4m pine dowel but unfortunately they were sold out, I still have the thought of making the mast out of mahogany with the gouged out sections to reduce the weight.
I had also been thinking of a two part mast but using brass screw joint similar to the fittings they use for breakdown snooker cues.
Yes I am still thinking of going ahead with the fibre glass, I am waiting for the finishing resin to arrive. And hopefully it should be here soon.
Regards
Jim
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have you considered that snooker cues are already made with a nice taper and the join? parts of them must be nearly the right dimensions.
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Hello Jim, I have an old two part mast which looks as if it was turned on a lathe and drilled for 3/16ths at one end and the other with a wood spiggot in the other about 1 1/2 inches long and they plug together. Doing it these days I would drill both ends as before and use a good piece of pine dowel as the locating piece.
If the mast is too slim then use a brass screw with a good clear shank, not a modern one with thread all the way up. Drill and fit in one end of the mast and then cut the head off with a saw and you have a strong joining piece. You can also use this idea to locate the base of the mast into the keel.
I expect I shall use this mast for refurbishing a 36R but will find a thin wall brass tube to overlap the join and use a brass pin to hold it in place.
By the way do you know how to do 'Whipping'? This is that tightly wound string or cord wound around spars to strengthen areas where there are screw fittings. It is very easy to do and I use it a lot, as it secures the cord without using a knot.
If you have an old fashioned potato peeler with a wood handle and metal cutter, the string handle is whipped in place.
I also use cocktail sticks as nails into wood. I drill a tight hole through the two parts and then coat the cocktail stick with glue and knock it in with a hammer and slice off the wood protuding. You may have to trim the cocktail stick first of course, but you do not notice the 'nail' especially after varnishing. They can also be used to fill unwanted holes in deck and mast.
If you pin through thin planks to hold them in place while the glue dries, when you remove the pins afterwards there is a hole. If you put a drop of water over the hole left by the pin and give it a while the wood will swell up to fill the hole, as the pin compressed the wood as it went in and the water lets it expand again.
All the best
Roy
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Great ideas coming up on this thread. All being noted for future reference.
Thanks to all the contributors :-)
Regards,
Ray.
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Hi Roy,
They are helpful suggestions I think that I will be employing a few of them. :-)) I have never done whipping, so will have to swat up on that. It is briefly mentioned in the book by Daniel's, but not how it's done. {:-{
Hi Grendal, that's not a bad thought, I will have a look on the net for the average sizes of snooker cues. :-))
And in anticipation of the arrival of the finishing resin, I started to make a hull template for the fibreglass using left over bubble wrap, that should help me get a better fit when it comes to putting it on.
Gareth, when you fibreglassed the Spindrift. Did you come up and over the gunnel or did you glass to deck level?
Regards
Jim
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Hi Jim,
We normally apply the glass cloth after the deck has been fixed. The cloth and resin then cover the edge of the deck and the joint between it and the hull. This gives a neater finish and seals the deck/hull joint. You need to mask off the top surface of the deck to avoid getting any resin on it or cloth stuck to it. Its easy to trim off the surplus cloth with a sharp knife once the resin has hardened.
If you are going to apply the cloth in two halves, as it appears from your cut out pattern, don't forget to allow a couple of inches overlap where the two pieces meet and an overlap along the deck edge. We usually tack the overlap along the deck edge on to the masked off deck with a few pieces of masking tape to stop it sliding around or getting in the way.
Regards
Gareth
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Hi All,
After giving The Lady Edith a coat of varnish and leaving it to cure, I found the varnish to have been contaminated, more than likely with dust, so I had to sand down the hull again.
And after meeting and chatting to Gareth and his wife Elizabeth, I wont be re-attempting the hull for a time. So I started to construct the new gunnels and sub deck, the gunnels were milled down from mahogany strips, given a good soaking for several hours then clamped in place over night.
The next day they were ready to fix to The Lady Edith. I must say there were some slight gaps in places were the gunnels meet the hull as she is not totally symmetrical, however I dont see it being a big problem to fix with some fine slithers of mahogany. :}
The mounting for the winch servo have been made and the rudder servo box is still under construction :-)
The sub deck has been roughly cut out and should fit snuggly with a wee bit of sanding here and there.
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Hi we are off to Black Park today to sail, that is Theresa and me! I do not take her out very often so she appreciates the attention.
She is nearly 60 years old but I say her beauty will never age.
More on the refurbishing if wanted.
regards
Roy
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Hi I should add that Theresa is 41 inches loa and then there is a 6 inch bowsprit (47 total) and she is 48 inches keel to top of mast. I am hoping she will fit in my car fully rigged as it takes ages to rig her. The sail winch is original, so over 50 years old!
regards
Roy
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Hi Roy, Theresa is a very fine looking Lady, and I hope you enjoy your day sailing. You never know maybe one day we could meet up for a days sailing when The Lady Edity is afloat.
Would it be possible for you to 5ake a closeup photo of her sail winch please. :-)
Regards Jim