Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Working vessels R&D: => Topic started by: Taranis on August 18, 2019, 10:41:57 PM

Title: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on August 18, 2019, 10:41:57 PM
These are the new kid on the block and there are other options of jet drives as well as steerable korts etc on their Facebook page.
This guide will only concern the thread title.
I'm doing this for the first time hence posted in the R&D forum
More soon..........
I AM NOT CONNECTED TO OCEAN WORKS in any way and I paid full price but since then they have accommodated all my requests HENCE the revised bigger nozzles, the trim tabs, (may be modified again soon ) the intake grills (shown facing wrong way) , the revised reversing buckets and all still within the original price. I must applaud their willingness to fill these needs. Also note that the buckets and trim tabs can be operated left or right.

EDIT I have not made any enquires about possible 1:16 scale as MBD do not produce one and Speedline come complete


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Shannon/n-MfgVDR/MBD-Shannon-build/i-6h3F9Hx/0/b5e6117d/X3/6BFC5EF7-E356-4EB9-B045-5C17945C1EBD-X3.png)


Mine here waiting for new parts. I will then start from the beginning
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JPb47z4/0/44b47d9b/X3/i-JPb47z4-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on August 28, 2019, 12:06:46 AM
Fresh picture via messenger
OceanWorks are very professional I think with new packaging ready to go.
My upgrade parts should arrive any day this week .
The trim tabs likely wonít work effectively but they have modified after discussing.
Unfortunately the revision wonít be with this delivery.
I will work with what I receive for now
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-764dFCX/0/3d00f83a/X3/i-764dFCX-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 02, 2019, 07:26:45 PM
Today the first set of revised parts for the original drives have arrived.
These include a redesigned larger steering nozzle of 20mm diameter.
A revised bucket to suit that with a better angle of deflection in reverse
A very nice intake grill
A first attempt at the trim tab which we know already is a misunderstanding and the new one is in production already for new orders.


The revised bucket and the trim tabs are also made so that you can choose to operate them left or right handed. likewise the steering arm.


Having studied the parts my first conclusion was that due to the GRP hull being relatively thinner that the original drives were designed for we now have a situation where the distance between the internal and external parts is too great.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MJjVsvt/0/baf90ecf/X3/i-MJjVsvt-X3.jpg)


Easiest solution is to shim this and as it happens we need something for the Nozzle assembly to screw to from the outside.
So from 2mm styrene I came up with this (ocean works will eventually include the solution)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NrSHmJV/1/cab0ab89/X3/i-NrSHmJV-X3.jpg)


Out of sequence but this is the goal. The adapter shim has been fixed in place with 5 min resin whilst the drive unit was dry fitted inside to align it accurately.
Then removing the drive unit before it became stuck.
I then pilot drilled all the 8 fixing holes from the outside with an archimedes drill and a 1.5mm bit followed by tapping them 2mm and opening the nozzle housing holes up to 2mm
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-v7f9D6L/0/b404a6d2/X3/i-v7f9D6L-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tnmP6J5/0/4536d034/X3/i-tnmP6J5-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wf3kjvh/0/aae29a53/X3/i-wf3kjvh-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 02, 2019, 07:35:30 PM
I will cover a procedure for marking and cutting the hull later but for now some more pictures
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cMq5mSh/0/d10dd252/X3/i-cMq5mSh-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qvzsbV8/0/4da7050c/X3/i-qvzsbV8-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-sx4rcGX/0/ef0489d0/X3/i-sx4rcGX-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QM488fn/0/8f6cddfb/X3/i-QM488fn-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Qc2Z2P5/0/9b6629e5/X3/i-Qc2Z2P5-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Nz3cBq3/0/29cb0f3a/X3/i-Nz3cBq3-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wL5QCvt/0/8f188b9b/X3/i-wL5QCvt-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-45cS8Jh/0/99667ac7/X3/i-45cS8Jh-X3.jpg)


The all important revised trim tab attachment
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CtvJP42/0/47aa4285/X3/i-CtvJP42-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CRhsqtC/0/9a093d1c/X3/i-CRhsqtC-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 02, 2019, 08:00:07 PM
So back to the opening post.
When I first looked at these I wondered how I would mark the hull openings.
My wife has one of those ink pads in a tin  :-))


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tf4g3F2/0/467f7c36/X3/i-tf4g3F2-X3.jpg)


I then carefully cut that out and checked it on one of the drives first
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zp8JsGk/0/604cfb4a/X3/i-zp8JsGk-X3.jpg)


This measurement of 130mm would now be 132mm due to my previous two posts


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CMDh67b/0/38059cd6/X3/i-CMDh67b-X3.jpg)


Self explanatory
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CMV8j6R/0/80e21567/X3/i-CMV8j6R-X3.jpg)


Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 02, 2019, 08:08:36 PM
Screws for the grill are not included so you must find your own solution.
I happen to keep a good stock of stainless steel parts so I will use these M2 x 6 countersunk screws


I've assembled here with the intention of supergluing each nut one at a time then removing the grill for installation.
The nuts will then be encapsulated in epoxy when bonding to the hull


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Nz3cBq3/0/29cb0f3a/X3/i-Nz3cBq3-X3.jpg)


I will take one screw out and use slow CA on the nut face then put the screw back to align it and remove before the screw gets stuck too (repeat 10 times)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wL5QCvt/0/8f188b9b/X3/i-wL5QCvt-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 03, 2019, 12:22:47 AM
CA was a fail on reinforced nylon so reverted to 5 min epoxy for the nuts


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XW4Lfxc/0/1dc51422/X3/i-XW4Lfxc-X3.jpg)


Marked up for 5 min resin
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tzTBmLh/0/203d5164/X3/i-tzTBmLh-X3.jpg)


Once glued in I found the two centre line holes then drill through the rest
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NPQqVbz/0/84d357b4/X3/i-NPQqVbz-X3.jpg)


I then used 30min resin and glass cloth around the inside
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LnSv4Lq/0/722b1b2c/X3/i-LnSv4Lq-X3.jpg)




Servo rods all bent to suit confined spaces
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RXBzdXG/0/4d649f7f/X3/i-RXBzdXG-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-48XPGcc/0/0d30a001/X3/i-48XPGcc-X3.jpg)


Temporary trim tab fitted just to align for rods and servos
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MbNbVRQ/0/fc62a919/X3/i-MbNbVRQ-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BTLN464/0/8fe7591c/X3/i-BTLN464-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RZ7NHQZ/0/be5f59f4/X3/i-RZ7NHQZ-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2kC4QnW/0/afbc614f/X3/i-2kC4QnW-X3.jpg)


Quality and no trimming of any parts necessary


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xpw3Qqq/0/d8758636/X3/i-xpw3Qqq-X3.jpg)


Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: RST on September 03, 2019, 12:54:07 AM
CA shouldn't really stick to nylon.  Not much will by the fact it's a very low surface energy material, ive done it with special ioniising primers, then industrial adhesives.  George Foreman will be proud of you though, sausages apparently don't stick to any of his grills either!  Grilles are a different story.


Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 03, 2019, 08:19:36 AM
Itís an age thing Rich  :embarrassed:
FYI Facebook is full of Grill'rs  {-)

A thought occurred overnight
Sometimes despite being stainless steel the socket head screws can be a bit soft and small Allen keys can slip.
Iím going to order a batch of torx heads to replace them
long term


P.S. I said no trimming of parts necessary. There is the exception of trimming the intake housing flush with the hull. Sanding is very laborious on Nylon so I used my mini plane to great effect
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: dpbarry on September 03, 2019, 10:18:15 AM
Hi Andy.

Looking good  :-)) 


Great reading on all the threads (Yourself and Kim) and taking notes.

When you mate up the outer and inner section of the drives through the hull, are they held together with the 8 hexagon style bolts?

Declan
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 03, 2019, 10:33:45 AM
The inner unit is fixed with resin and the outer unit is screwed through to the adapter shim plate I made
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 03, 2019, 12:24:45 PM
Hi again Declan, I was a bit hurried this morning so here is a clearer pair of images to answer your question better.
Also at the same time the now fixed in place servo mount that can be removed with just 2 screws via the centre hatch.


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vFNDRrG/0/b5a5bd51/X3/i-vFNDRrG-X3.jpg)


From the outside showing the 8 M2 screws
Also note the fixing points for the trim tabs that are no good. These will be cut off when I have the new versions.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2WmRH3Z/0/2ba208cc/X3/i-2WmRH3Z-X3.jpg)


Have yours arrived yet???????
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 03, 2019, 03:07:34 PM
Ongoing development today as well as working on the second drive.


OceanWorks having seen this will likely make a Nylon part for future


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZpZpZHf/0/bb576051/X3/i-ZpZpZHf-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BfbbhfF/0/cc253e6d/X3/i-BfbbhfF-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GPrBpSB/0/ed1f2d42/X3/i-GPrBpSB-X3.jpg)




This picture shows how little servo rod travel is required between stops.
The upper black marks on the rods are steering and the lower the reverse bucket


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3w4KJZ3/0/28bc34be/X3/i-3w4KJZ3-X3.jpg)




These are the two screws that allow the whole assemble to be moved forwards and out
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6DbdNLT/0/dc2218aa/X2/i-6DbdNLT-X2.jpg)


I've concluded today that I will not be cutting another access hatch

Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 03, 2019, 03:30:15 PM
This is how they will work when complete




Martin will you add HTML tags please will report to moderator
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: TugCowboy on September 03, 2019, 03:45:13 PM
Absolutely loving seeing these being used, the more options for stuff like this we have in the hobby the better.
Please keep the updates coming.
Alex
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 03, 2019, 03:54:14 PM
Absolutely loving seeing these being used, the more options for stuff like this we have in the hobby the better.
Please keep the updates coming.
Alex
Have you looked at their tug drives Alex  :-)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 03, 2019, 05:27:48 PM
 
Sounds Great!   :-))

  How did you link the the Trim tabs to speed?
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 03, 2019, 05:58:12 PM

Sounds Great!   :-))

  How did you link the the Trim tabs to speed?




Basically it's a mix of channels like flyers do. I could not possibly recall how I did it as it took many hours of reading about open TX software  :-)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Mark T on September 03, 2019, 06:31:33 PM
That is amazing  :-))
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 03, 2019, 06:33:22 PM
That is amazing  :-))


Anyone who flies an RC plane would say childís play  {-)

Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 03, 2019, 10:48:55 PM
End of day and unlikely to post for some weeks now as I go on tour

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WdPBNZF/0/8b335bda/X3/i-WdPBNZF-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-966xFPC/0/c06e1c53/X3/i-966xFPC-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HpkBpBB/0/bf8db433/X4/i-HpkBpBB-X4.jpg)


I've reformed both steering rods to avoid any clashes at extremes of movement


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZHWsPJf/0/4a7efecd/X3/i-ZHWsPJf-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dhSX8MB/0/5d3d39d3/X3/i-dhSX8MB-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 04, 2019, 05:32:55 PM
I had a bit more time today than expected so had a bit of a play around with the parts.
I made some threaded female servo rod connectors for starters. To make it easy to unbolt and withdraw the jet nozzles I need to be able to take everything off the main rods and this is now easily done by disconnecting from the servo arm and unscrewing the extension
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-pX2cGLC/0/e6216c89/X4/i-pX2cGLC-X4.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xWQJCtG/0/ce7c9c68/X4/i-xWQJCtG-X4.jpg)


Plenty of room and access is pretty good


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bzwL4Dx/0/92edf6fa/X4/i-bzwL4Dx-X4.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: RST on September 04, 2019, 05:44:14 PM
Amazing how small the parts look in there. Almost lost! Are you taking any bets on which item will still end up difficult to get to? There has to be one at the end! Might you need some form of stabilising bearing or loop mid-point on those rods in addition though?


The jet drives do look tasty. Nice finish on them and nice stay clean material. LoL
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 04, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
The servos are smaller than full size ones.
From experience with my Speedline and my design those rods will be absolutely fine and actual travel is quite small. I already fitted a secondary support for the rods too, also there is no resistance in the moving parts.
The access to the motor coupling grub screws would be the difficult but not impossible job.
As I've discussed with Andy Griggs there is plenty of room for even a big hand to get in and the four small hatches serve as viewing points for what fat fingers are doing  {-)


I'm thinking of fitting flexible extension tubes to the grease points
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 04, 2019, 06:42:43 PM
Anyone interested in how I made the couplings?  {-)   I had to think on my feet as brass barrels are non existent here and China Ebay is a long wait
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: RST on September 04, 2019, 07:08:25 PM
Only now you said! I used to have a big ice cream tub of stuff like that. Before eBay took-off you could buy random bags of stuff like that for a few quid that would last a decade or more. I had to ditch mine de-cluttering when I almost lost my house when the oil industry crashed. Don't see those suppliers anymore. Old school and China on eBay and whatever else took over since unless you want to make yourself.
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 04, 2019, 07:21:57 PM
Cool I'm glad someone does  {-)   thanks Rich


I had some K&S brass tube, think its 1/8th internal. Then I found some styrene tube that fitted inside it (convenient) and tight


So I abraded the styrene and applied slow CA before pushing it in quick! Making the parts only a little over length to begin with! squared off on bench sander after.
Then I tapped 2mm from both ends.
The longer ones pictured are the better product  :-)


TIP I used silicon grease on the tap and backed it out frequent to clear the swarf
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 04, 2019, 08:13:25 PM
Instead of Lions 2 Christians nil


Servo rods 2 resistance nil  :-))

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dhgRvtB/0/b16a6d26/1920/i-dhgRvtB-1920.mp4 (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dhgRvtB/0/b16a6d26/1920/i-dhgRvtB-1920.mp4)


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hjTpVcj/0/e9220d0a/1920/i-hjTpVcj-1920.mp4 (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hjTpVcj/0/e9220d0a/1920/i-hjTpVcj-1920.mp4)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: RST on September 04, 2019, 08:24:38 PM
Andy,

Which bit are you pushing -left, right or bucket up/down?  Will it be the same powered, and how do you convert your "muckle" hand of god bolted to a human been to a servo pushing with a little 1" lever on a 5v micro motor?  You're all pushing such high power motors these days also.  I can push/poke things as much by hand, but there's not much comparison apart from saying it's no friction "dry" -which is always good to start with.

Rich
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 04, 2019, 08:28:32 PM
I'm applying very much less pressure than the metal gear servos can deliver. Trust me I've done this before  {-)


Whichever the servo rods don't bend  O0  regardless of my muckle
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: RST on September 04, 2019, 08:30:30 PM
Quote
I had some K&S brass tube, think its 1/8th internal. Then I found some styrene tube that fitted inside it (convenient) and tight


So I abraded the styrene and applied slow CA before pushing it in quick! Making the parts only a little over length to begin with! squared off on bench sander after.
Then I tapped 2mm from both ends.
The longer ones pictured are the better product  (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/smiley1.gif)
...I've kind of done the same before.  At 2mm / M2 I've used the "hod it and bodge it" approach.  Filed a point on a bolt and used that to cut the thread into the plastic tube (takes allot longer than using a tap, but sometimes I didn't have one). Bit of spit on the threads (surprised how well spit works for allot of things!).  Rough as a badgers ar**, LoL.  Wouldn't consider that for anything at work obviously.
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: derekwarner on September 05, 2019, 02:28:08 AM
Andy....following along as always :-)) .....I do have direct experience with hydraulic servo control systems in Naval Missile Launchers and Gun Mounts, however have no real understanding of control systems for water jet drives small marine craft

1. what type of movement controllers do the full sized water jet drives utilise for linear movement?
2. when we see in your models video, from full port to full stdb movement of each jet nozzle is achievable literally in fractions of a second
3. I can understand this speed of movement is relative to the radial displacement of the servo shaft & arm length x buy any mechanical ratio by linkage arms etc
4. do the speeds of movement represent scale movement?
5. are you concerned with twitchyness in the function of the craft?


I am sure all of the aeroplane and helicopter model pilots cope with these question  O0  however I have zero knowledge or experience in either

Derek
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: tizdaz on September 05, 2019, 07:17:36 AM

1. what type of movement controllers do the full sized water jet drives utilise for linear movement?
2. when we see in your models video, from full port to full stdb movement of each jet nozzle is achievable literally in fractions of a second
3. I can understand this speed of movement is relative to the radial displacement of the servo shaft & arm length x buy any mechanical ratio by linkage arms etc
4. do the speeds of movement represent scale movement?
5. are you concerned with twitchyness in the function of the craft?

Derek
Im guessing the speed of nozzle movement is determined by how quick you are moving the lever on the TX? also with most newer types of TX's there is an option that lets you adjust the servo speed direct from the TX on-the-fly, so your servo motor will travel full rotation at a set speed no matter how fast you flip the lever :)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 05, 2019, 07:29:09 AM
Yes the speed is proportional to how fast or slow you operate the stick  :-))
Thank you both  :-)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 05, 2019, 08:12:36 AM
Burning the midnight oil last night.
Holiday time! first stop Tan Hill the highest pub in England  :}
When I'm back the new trim tabs will be fitted


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nT3b4Ps/0/ce35fda3/X4/i-nT3b4Ps-X4.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-62P63Hb/0/93f956b3/X3/i-62P63Hb-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xMBSmm3/0/2cbe0743/X4/i-xMBSmm3-X4.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 05, 2019, 02:32:36 PM
Videos without the servo tray fixed down
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nJWp6PF/0/9fef0539/1280/i-nJWp6PF-1280.mp4 (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nJWp6PF/0/9fef0539/1280/i-nJWp6PF-1280.mp4)


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vs5LKp4/0/5d7bfebc/1280/i-vs5LKp4-1280.mp4 (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vs5LKp4/0/5d7bfebc/1280/i-vs5LKp4-1280.mp4)


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TJRLjJG/0/1c55c1b0/1280/i-TJRLjJG-1280.mp4 (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TJRLjJG/0/1c55c1b0/1280/i-TJRLjJG-1280.mp4)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cJWmptV/0/1a5ebbbb/X3/i-cJWmptV-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 10, 2019, 05:56:45 PM
I just want to kill a flat spot in my holiday by making a statement regarding OceanWorks and these drives in particular. I know people are buying them and I want you to know that you may not get exactly what you see pictured in this R&D thread.
The reason for this is that OceanWorks donít sit on their hands and if I or they see room for improvement they make it happen quite quickly  :-))
Canít wait to be back and get mine running
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Charlie on September 17, 2019, 05:18:05 PM
Hi Andy,


What motors are you fitting to the OceanWorks Jets?


Charlie
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 17, 2019, 05:29:16 PM
I have Turnigy SK3 35:42 1250kv in stock so will use these
My other Shannon uses the 1185kv version
Best with 4s LiPo
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: dpbarry on September 18, 2019, 10:46:54 AM
Have you any preference between the two?


Declan


I have Turnigy SK3 35:42 1250kv in stock so will use these
My other Shannon uses the 1185kv version
Best with 4s LiPo
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 18, 2019, 10:48:08 AM
1185 is already sufficient
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: dpbarry on September 18, 2019, 12:38:13 PM
Cheers.


That's great. Just looking at them on HobbyKing. Not much of a difference in terms of price - ~£2


Declan


 
1185 is already sufficient
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Charlie on September 19, 2019, 05:08:11 PM

Thanks for the info. I have ordered a pair of 1185kv.


Charlie

1185 is already sufficient
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 19, 2019, 05:17:56 PM
The videos of mine on the water are with 1185 and easily over scale speed with 4s LiPo
Whether the OceanWorks impellers being only two blade will make any difference I do not know yet but the prop shop brass ones will fit.
I bought them already for the Kehrer jets that I have not used in favour of the IMHO more complete package from OW


Kehrer having no look alike buckets no trim tabs and no intake grills
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 21, 2019, 04:58:47 PM
Wife just gave the thumbs up to end our touring so Iíll be home tomorrow keen to continue
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 23, 2019, 11:36:34 AM
First day back and my tail is wagging  {-)


Already today some big changes.
I've rotated the equipment tray 180 degrees so there is now space for the ESC's nearer the motors.
I've replaced the DIY 2mm couplers as I found a FANTASTIC supplier for little wonga.
I've replaced the servo rod keepers for a better easier to fit and remove type same as my other shannon.
The tray will be made removable with minimal effort.


Now the OpenTX operating system for Taranis has all escaped my grey cells so I will be doing it again from scratch for this new model.
To allow full future expansion and channel mixing we need more than 8 channels so as before I'm using 2 8 channel RX
Straight away 8 channels are used by 6 servos and 2 ESC before any other considerations.
I'll be setting them up as port and starboard 1to4 9to13 initially. Lighting and radar are extra but I'm not fitting pumps this time not even for cooling as I don't think they get hot enough


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jvnMJpN/0/78d2279c/X4/i-jvnMJpN-X4.jpg)

Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: dpbarry on September 23, 2019, 11:52:13 AM
Hi Andy.

What about fitting temperature sensors (temporarily) to the ESC's and feeding it back using telemetry using the OpenTX setup?

Just a thought - to gauge what temperature are actually being reached.

Declan
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 23, 2019, 11:55:34 AM
Already did all that on the other hence I know its not necessary
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 23, 2019, 01:56:51 PM
The most recent version of the drives now have 4 motor mounting screws and the mount is now connected to the intake at the bottom to prevent twist.


My upgrade to negate torque twist is this addition of a cross brace and my top motor mounts are now fixed to this


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-66LCkP2/0/87f5c73c/XL/i-66LCkP2-XL.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5kbTjPV/0/df76ef61/XL/i-5kbTjPV-XL.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: dpbarry on September 23, 2019, 02:15:34 PM
I had a feeling I was about to teach you how to suck eggs!  {-) {-) :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

Declan

Already did all that on the other hence I know its not necessary
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 23, 2019, 02:28:05 PM
No please don't think that  :-))  all contributions and suggestions welcomed.  If I was doing this for the first time I would definitely use the telemetry and some of us Speedline builders did exactly that as we had nothing to compare from other models.
I do have RPM and Temp readings on my other but the temperature has never been abnormal when I forgot to turn on the cooling pump.
I also don't need RPM now I'm familiar with the motors and batteries.
The most likely reason for not overheating is that they only draw half their current capability at full throttle. I failed to blow 25 amp fuses at continuous full throttle and now don't use fuses either but rely on the ESC internal protection


With this model I want the weight to be the minimum to fit more battery capacity so no frills
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: dpbarry on September 23, 2019, 03:07:26 PM
 :-)) :-))

Maybe slightly off topic here and probably covering in another thread but what radio system are you using (Name probably says it all  :}) and what way are you controlling the buckets on the radio independently??

Declan
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 23, 2019, 03:32:03 PM
I will cover OpenTX set up in this thread but I have to re learn it first.


Scarborough uses this.


Buckets are on the left and right side levers
Throttle is on left stick (friction)  but operating switch S2 (red sleeve) changes to independent throttles on S1 S2 slides
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tSJrPgK/0/5a34b31f/X3/i-tSJrPgK-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: dpbarry on September 23, 2019, 03:57:26 PM
 :-)) :-))


Changing my Radio is something I'm considering at moment but not sure which version to go for at present. I have an old F14 and an FC16. The F14 is the navy version with the twin stick and I've a couple of the Robbe Multi encoder/decoders plus a encoder/decoder from https://cp-elektronik.de/index.php/en/ (https://cp-elektronik.de/index.php/en/) (not built yet)

I think I need to retire in order to allow me to do the things I want to do rather than shoe-horn all this between wife/work/lifeboat/parents etc {-) {-)


Declan
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 23, 2019, 04:12:37 PM
When you retire you'll have even less time  {-)


I am very lucky retiring at 61 8)


Right here I've glued two pieces of T bar offcuts to the hull.
The tray is now a sliding fit and won't jump out due to the angle of the T's
Some stops glued at the front end and something removable at the back end will make it sweet to take out.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LcWjRXC/0/416d28c6/X4/i-LcWjRXC-X4.jpg)


It should not be an over complicated affair to disassemble, the four swing keepers are easy to undo
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WtKvDjW/0/9195ce41/X4/i-WtKvDjW-X4.jpg)


I'm thinking the ESC's could go on the tray underside or even fix them to a metal plate right against the hull bottom. That would certainly dissipate any heat being next to the water
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: kinmel on September 23, 2019, 07:37:41 PM
:-)) :-))

Maybe slightly off topic here and probably covering in another thread but what radio system are you using (Name probably says it all  :} ) and what way are you controlling the buckets on the radio independently??

Declan
OpenTx allows us to change the inputs according to the task.   

When my model is cruising, both motors are on the left hand stick.  As the model accelerates ahead, the trim tab angle is proportional to the same stick.
Stopping involves dropping the buckets, do it at full power and you can damage the buckets. So when you pull back the left stick a sequence starts 1. the motors stop  2. the trim tabs lift  3. the buckets start to come down and after a very short delay the motors start up again.  The model is then reversing and adjusting the stick manages the power and buckets to produce the speed you want.
Different things happen if you select throw a switch for slow manoeuvring, another switch throw will set the controls for crabbing to port, throw the switch the other way and it will crab to starboard.
Right now some of that is a work in progress, but I am getting there.
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 23, 2019, 10:47:03 PM
I'm struggling tonight. I have both receivers bound and have the nozzles working and trimmed. With these drives being symmetrical (optional) one rod is pulling while the other is pushing to make a turn. So no servo travel reverser needed but setting the stops is different.
Anyway that is done but the struggle now is the buckets as I cannot get my LS & RS slider switches to operate them so I've given up today {:-{


The reason for the nozzles being on independent channels is so the stops can be set for each servo. The channels are then mixed to operate together on the Aileron stick (right horizontal)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 23, 2019, 11:54:46 PM
Some very very good reading


http://www.rc-soar.com/opentx/basics/index.htm
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 24, 2019, 06:54:16 PM
A good day was had starting with the cinema and Ad Astra  :-)


Yesterdays issue was overcome having not added the sources to mixes.
Now all servos are operating and stops set. Probably set the channel mixes tomorrow.
Currently mounting the ESC's and will program them to run during tomorrow also.
Trim tabs will be here by Friday hopefully and weather permitting could be launched on Sunday


Pictures later
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 24, 2019, 07:33:47 PM
A series of pictures showing the sliding equipment tray and the ESC's mounted beneath both with and without deck


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XBD9c2k/0/2f8d87cd/X4/i-XBD9c2k-X4.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gWTwFxg/0/763c910c/X4/i-gWTwFxg-X4.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PbzqTW2/0/775418b5/X4/i-PbzqTW2-X4.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cz7MwkB/0/6765f230/X4/i-cz7MwkB-X4.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-p9tsgBj/0/2b7785bf/X4/i-p9tsgBj-X4.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FfXDP5z/0/4741420c/X4/i-FfXDP5z-X4.jpg)



Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: mk1 on September 25, 2019, 06:22:43 AM
Hi Andy were did you get the 2mm brass servo rod couplers from and also the servo rod keepers.
Thanks John
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 25, 2019, 08:41:44 AM
Hi John
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-50pc-Solid-Brass-M2-M3-Hex-Standoff-Spacer-Pillar-Phillips-Pan-Head-Screw-Nut/162046569212?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=461013985820&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Servo-Swing-in-Keepers-2mm-x-8pcs-radio-controlled-aircraft-plastic/172933759880?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 25, 2019, 01:21:28 PM
This morning the Stixall adhesive has set enough to drill & tap for mounting two AE fuse holders. These are 28 amp rated so I will run with a 25 in one and a 30 in the other and learn something when running.


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5rv7SsG/0/db36a776/X4/i-5rv7SsG-X4.jpg)


Here the tray is in place with an aluminium bracket fitted nearest centre as a backstop to prevent any movement when servos operate.


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zbqNB2Z/0/d89c9bcb/4K/i-zbqNB2Z-4K.jpg)


Here a view of the receivers mounted to their own plate located with two M3 screws.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-D3XC8Kb/0/87e6b25e/4K/i-D3XC8Kb-4K.jpg)


Here the first dry run
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4S4rTjt/0/3c1c1031/1920/i-4S4rTjt-1920.mp4 (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4S4rTjt/0/3c1c1031/1920/i-4S4rTjt-1920.mp4)




For the rest of today I will input the mixes for buckets and trim tabs. I may even stick it in the hot tub
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 25, 2019, 07:06:40 PM
I found that the supplied couplings are not really suitable and the Stbd side was vibrating.
I have 4mmx5mm solid brass in stock and this has cured the problem
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CkM39FB/1/4b3e86e3/X5/i-CkM39FB-X5.jpg)


Both changed
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-M89dsWq/0/1f4a1dbf/4K/i-M89dsWq-4K.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: derekwarner on September 26, 2019, 01:36:12 AM
Andy...I am surprised the manufacturer of the drive kits has included those aluminium CNC spiral helical cut one piece couplings


They are ideal for low speed transmission of rotation with ZERO backlash......typically stepper motor positioning...or in lower power and speed applications the like of Photo Copy machine internal drives etc


At higher speeds, typically 10,000 RPM unloaded, these one piece couplings have been shown to develop harmonic vibrations


Having 2 sets of 2 steel HPGS at 90 degrees [with both pairs in line with each other] in the lighter aluminium body were attributed to this resonance [vibration]


The other issue is the lack of appropriate bore tolerance [ H7] also contributes to off axis securing to the motor shaft


[If the coupling HPGS were tightened at 12.00 and 3.00 o'clock, effectively the coupling body axis is pushed toward the 7.30 o'clock position]  >>:-(


For reference, an H7 tolerance on a hole from 3 mm to 6 mm diameter is + 12 micrometre, - zero]


Derek
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 26, 2019, 08:25:23 AM
Absolutely spot on Derek
Dave ďThe old fartĒ  was surprised at seeing them at the onset and he was right.
I have of course told OceanWorks. Hopefully they will be changed in future
The solid couplings were purchased from eBay China when I was building the Speedline as that too had coupling issues. The brass ones can be found very cheaply


This is of course a Research and development subject and changes are being made all the time for future users.
I am dealing with the first unit that was created directly from my requests and they have done very well in a short space of time  :-))
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 26, 2019, 09:10:10 AM
For others but of course if using a motor shaft other than  5mm choose the correct size
Typical example https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-to-5mm-RC-Aircraft-Toy-Brass-Motor-Shaft-Coupling-Connector-Coupler-C9B3/283449122243?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D39ffd21070ba46f0987d136b1b772018%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D323711043701%26itm%3D283449122243%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-to-5mm-RC-Aircraft-Toy-Brass-Motor-Shaft-Coupling-Connector-Coupler-C9B3/283449122243?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D39ffd21070ba46f0987d136b1b772018%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D323711043701%26itm%3D283449122243%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: dpbarry on September 26, 2019, 10:03:28 AM
Hi Andy.

At work at moment and reading your thread (on my break  %) )

Would you happen to know offhand the diameter of the shaft on the impeller. Don't worry if you don't. I can always measure it tonight. Sorry. Scrub this one. Just discovered on the Oceanworkscale website its 4mm  :-))

Incidentally, are you using the standard supplied impeller or one I hear being supplied by PropShop?

Declan
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 26, 2019, 11:02:58 AM
Iím using standard impeller for testing
Prop shop are not making an impeller for this drive. I doubt they know of it but the one they make for Kehrer will fit


Ocean works do all manner of brass propellers for their superb Z drives so an impeller for the jets is a possibility but I guess it depends on how many units they sell
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 26, 2019, 11:21:03 AM
Right Declan I've asked the question
OW are already playing with more improvements and they will try a 3 blade CNC impeller (not cast bronze)


This is a 2 blade CNC already being considered.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-x6f5wN4/0/68a04322/X3/i-x6f5wN4-X3.jpg)


This is the prop shop for KMB drives
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HXk8dcX/0/fa0a92bf/X3/i-HXk8dcX-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: dpbarry on September 26, 2019, 12:05:09 PM
Cheers Andy.

Will just stick with what I have at moment but will keep an eye on your developments.  :-))

Declan
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on September 30, 2019, 10:52:43 PM
Still waiting for trim tabs but had they arrived it would have made no difference due to the weather.


I have followed up on my idea to make greasing easier with these silicon extensions. This is 4mm bore pipe with a suitable brass sleeve fitted to hold it extra tight over the grease brass stub


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-k3Ztc7X/0/0f5fd1ae/X3/i-k3Ztc7X-X3.jpg)


Greasing will happen under the upper helm. The pipes coming through the deck where not visible until cabin removed.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mobil-Mobilgrease-XHP-222-High-Performance-Grease-Marine-Grease-390g/173699059342?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mobil-Mobilgrease-XHP-222-High-Performance-Grease-Marine-Grease-390g/173699059342?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-L7Tfxqz/0/c520327b/X3/i-L7Tfxqz-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: derekwarner on October 01, 2019, 01:02:33 AM
Andy......checked for an OceanWorks MJ21 WEB site & hopefully a sectional view...but no and very little in general from other full size builders


What type of bearing/bushing [to be lubricated] is located in the jet housing?......just a confused mental image in my mind & not sure if the impeller will create a vortex or low pressure, or a high pressure in the cavity being greased


If it is the latter, you could find lubricant being pressurised back up into the silicone tubes, or if the void is subjected to low pressure, then any lubricant being squeezed into the void being sucked out at a great rate of knots


Also conventional Dow Corning type synthetic Rubber Grease as used in boat trailer wheel bearings is not rated to relatively high temperatures


I suppose it simply comes back to whatever the manufacturer recommends?


Derek
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 01, 2019, 08:44:00 AM
All I can says is that itís a far superior design to the Speedline drives post my modifications and I donít lose grease with those in any dramatic fashion
These have a prop tube with lubrication point similar to that I fitted to the SL units with a sealed bearing at the motor end and a silicon or the like washer at the impeller end
Other than that I have yet to sail and test


The bearing can be seen in a gallery here https://www.oceanworkscale.com/product/28mm-rc-boat-water-jet-with-mjp-reverse-bucket-without-motor/ (https://www.oceanworkscale.com/product/28mm-rc-boat-water-jet-with-mjp-reverse-bucket-without-motor/)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nR3dpwC/0/6d831190/X3/i-nR3dpwC-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2gmtvXJ/0/f0411790/X3/i-2gmtvXJ-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 02, 2019, 06:24:42 PM
I'm still waiting for the trim tabs but today I have wet tested and I'm well happy that they are endowed with abundant power output with the standard impellers.
Hoping for good weather on Sunday and praying that we are cleared to sail as currently barred due to Algae

A video out of the water, this needs good internet for HD quality


8 channels are required for the basics as the 6 servos all have independent operation and where combined like for nozzle steering they also have independent travel end stops. Then 2 ESC's for separate motor operation.
More channels required for extras.
Using two receivers offers redundancy (The boat will operate on just Port or Starboard to return to operator) and allows a separate ESC 5amp supply from each ESC


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WrGfCpr/0/a6ae05ba/1920/i-WrGfCpr-1920.mp4 (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WrGfCpr/0/a6ae05ba/1920/i-WrGfCpr-1920.mp4)






(https://photos.smugmug.com/Shannon/n-MfgVDR/MBD-Shannon-build/i-TntGq3G/0/7dbc094f/X5/D5E5E01C-6364-4EAB-82E5-79E0DA6BCD7D-X5.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 03, 2019, 03:15:16 PM
Some water leakage taken care of and here a run up to 50% throttle.


Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Netleyned on October 03, 2019, 03:34:31 PM
Looking good Andy :-)) :-)) :-))
Good luck on Sunday.
Hope your old mate Algy doesn't
show up :embarrassed:
Ned
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 03, 2019, 03:36:17 PM
Thank you Ned
Unfortunately the trim tabs are now a week overdue and I wonít be making a trip without it fully working  :(( 
Still the possibility of tomorrow and Saturday but Iím thinking theyíre awol

Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 04, 2019, 07:14:44 PM
Something I never managed with my OpenTX set up on my Speedline was to limit throttle


I've now succeeded and of course I have two throttle modes.
The dual throttle is currently lowered to about 80% of max and it took me a lot of perseverance to achieve. Following You tube was not that helpful as it did not point out that to get 80% is not as simple as setting to 80 as I found that made no change at all. I actually had to go down to 60 before anything noticeable happened hence I thought I was doing it wrong for a long time. Anyway I got there but furthermore I have reduced the throttle to 40% max in independent motor mode as you simply don't need that power to manoeuvre in fact it's a hinderance.


The more you play with settings the better you get but it's all too easy forgotten if you don't


Like Alan I have a lot more things I'd like to achieve but it's very laborious and a difficult thing to share once done
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 09, 2019, 11:01:53 AM
Nothing happening lately. Everything hinges on arrival of trim tabs. Unfortunately the faster postal service has on this occasion been an absolute let down. Previous use has seen delivery in 4 days but I am now into 2 1/2 weeks.
If they don't arrive by next Monday OW will resend.


Royal Mail tracking is still stuck on "leaving Hong Kong" on the 24th Sept  <:(


Last two Sundays have been rubbish to sail anyway  {-)


Looks like some parcels went on a slow boat rather than the airport  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 14, 2019, 05:30:14 PM
Royal Mail just messaged to say the first set of trim tabs have cleared customs and entered the network for delivery. That is 3 weeks and I reckon they've been sat on them over 2 weeks of that  >>:-(


The second set via DHL will likely arrive at the same time.


Assuming both sets do turn up there will be a spare set if anyone wants to pay OceanWorks and collect in Leeds


Ready for fitting and I have cut the original hinge points off the transom plates. Not an easy task cutting through nylon


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-32hMxr2/0/6870ba84/X3/i-32hMxr2-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 15, 2019, 12:30:08 PM
Party time








Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: kinmel on October 15, 2019, 02:50:37 PM
Nicely done  :-))
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 15, 2019, 05:32:15 PM
Nicely done  :-))
Cheers Al  :-)


All together

Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 15, 2019, 06:12:56 PM
0 to 50% Throttle
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dRKvtmK/0/78e44c5d/X3/i-dRKvtmK-X3.jpg)


Pedal to the metal


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6w8pgK7/0/ad498699/X3/i-6w8pgK7-X3.jpg)


Reverse and positioning


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xvrf85g/0/8e30561f/X3/i-xvrf85g-X3.jpg)




Thank you OceanWorks for fullfilling my requests
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-z3VdtBx/0/886e1cc2/X3/i-z3VdtBx-X3.jpg)


Damn good they look!


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-r5ztXF8/0/2e8c2f14/X4/i-r5ztXF8-X4.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 16, 2019, 09:40:58 AM
A tip for other users.
Someone asked what might be the hardest job to service once the deck is glued on.
Possibly replacing a bearing but...
More likely would be replacing bellows. The supplied rubber ones are a bit thin so a bit of a fiddle to get on the brass tubes especially if restricted access.
The Joysway ones for DF65/95 yachts are much thick and stiffer and with a dab of silicon grease will push on very tightly.
Radio sailing is the cheapest for these at under £1 each before postage
£10.50 for 8 delivered and you will need 6

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Shannon/OceanWorks/n-3b7J2v/i-5MtX4G8/0/dcc77f9d/X2/i-5MtX4G8-X2.jpg)

Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 17, 2019, 03:21:56 PM
I found it useful to make this splitter lead. Normally they are single male to two female but I needed single female to twin male.


The purpose is temporary supplies to the twin receivers so I can program the 6 servos without powering the ESC's


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Shannon/n-MfgVDR/MBD-Shannon-build/i-Dj2C9xc/0/d0a4cb5c/X3/924E5CEA-23AF-4D13-98EA-66A74A2E8E71-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives (Trimtab modification)
Post by: Taranis on October 23, 2019, 04:09:15 PM
I decided there is room for improvement for a small sacrifice. Decide for yourself if you think it worth your while.


I wasn't happy with the way the tabs protrude below the hull when retracted.


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SGsNvpF/1/9eff64f3/XL/i-SGsNvpF-XL.jpg)


Would act like a water scoop
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dRKvtmK/0/78e44c5d/X3/i-dRKvtmK-X3.jpg)


Turning the hinge bracket upside down raises the pivot points. The sacrifice is the curved bits that fit so well around the transom plate.


It is best to fit them the correct way first to ensure the fixing holes are correctly centred.


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QxKVwQT/0/7ea4a4b0/XL/i-QxKVwQT-XL.jpg)


Also need to modify these corners with a chisel blade, the left side done here


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RNWJ4NK/0/e0f19c95/XL/i-RNWJ4NK-XL.jpg)




Job done
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bfFnW3G/0/bf5c721c/XL/i-bfFnW3G-XL.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HTLSk54/0/898717de/XL/i-HTLSk54-XL.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vBBkQMw/0/ae25c1ea/XL/i-vBBkQMw-XL.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FfjrHbN/0/883b1bce/XL/i-FfjrHbN-XL.jpg)


Club lake is still struck with Algae but the forecast for Sunday is SUN so she will be sailing!
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 23, 2019, 05:47:58 PM
Now I'm happy. Servo travels re adjusted ready to run  :-))  They look better in the flesh as there is a lot of lens distortion


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4wRjD7F/0/99409ab1/X4/i-4wRjD7F-X4.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2DhmBhb/0/39f3746b/X4/i-2DhmBhb-X4.jpg)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: johnv on October 23, 2019, 10:58:55 PM
Hi Tania it's John V i can see you have done a lovely Job well laid out .Hope you get on with your test on the lake .try and stay away from weed string fishing line and feather's .because don't for get you have two hovers on the bottom of your boat .that tend to suck up the lake .and clean it .happy sailing .you have done a grand job cheers John V
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 23, 2019, 11:35:46 PM
Kind of you to comment John  :-))
I have a club mate volunteer to film in 4K HD and Full Sun for Sunday morning
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 24, 2019, 09:55:09 PM
Earlier in the thread I alluded to explaining how to set up a radio running OpenTX. I'm very much daunted by this task so I've been swerving it  {-)


However Kinmel and myself are going to work together to help each other improve our programming.


This will generate lots of questions and pictures between us to achieve both our aims.


The benefit to members will only concern Taranis X9E & X9D transmitter users.


The outcome will be presented in a logical fashion in the end I hope
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: kinmel on October 24, 2019, 10:18:46 PM
You are a brave man Andy !
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 24, 2019, 10:20:08 PM
You are a brave man Andy !


It will do us both good and provide a record for reference if we have to do it again. It's so easy to forget what you just did  {-)




Also I've noticed that some sellers are listing X9E as discontinued.
Anyone not wanting a tray radio will be better with the X9D or X9D plus which is the traditional shape and much cheaper too
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 27, 2019, 02:58:17 PM
Some initial problems that only involve minor adjustments for the next outing. 25 amp fuse is adequate, will try a 20 amp on one side next time
https://youtu.be/14fEDZ8oP1c (https://youtu.be/14fEDZ8oP1c)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Netleyned on October 27, 2019, 03:07:38 PM
Looking fine there Andy.
Manoeuvrability looks
great and the speed
seems to be scale.
Ned
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 27, 2019, 03:10:06 PM
Can only get better.  :-)  It was actually sucking and shredding leaves but became too much in the end.
Too much trim tab and not enough stern weight among other minor issues
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Mark T on October 27, 2019, 04:11:49 PM
Now that looks like fun  :-))   Those jet drives are far more manoeuvrable than I would have thought and stops it on a sixpence too!
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 27, 2019, 05:03:54 PM
Will be much slicker when I make the adjustments. Goes very well with the current handicaps

https://youtu.be/FtUBJRC0G50 (https://youtu.be/FtUBJRC0G50)


OceanWorks say this is the first worldwide test of these drives  :-))


Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: cos918 on October 28, 2019, 10:18:36 AM
Hi Andylooks great. Thanks for the heads up on the X9E. I will get one on order asap.
John
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: The Old Fart on October 30, 2019, 06:54:30 PM
Have you tried this program to set mixes on the x9e, Open TX companion?


https://www.open-tx.org/2019/10/05/opentx-2.3.1 (https://www.open-tx.org/2019/10/05/opentx-2.3.1)


I remember using a similar Frysky program a few years back for an earlier transmitter.
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 30, 2019, 07:47:32 PM
Not myself Dave
I think Kinmel has


I think we have set our radios up in a completely different way but achieving similar outcome
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on October 30, 2019, 11:50:33 PM
Hi Andylooks great. Thanks for the heads up on the X9E. I will get one on order asap.
John
Thank you John
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: mk1 on November 07, 2019, 02:37:33 PM
Hi Andy what  impeller are you using when you done its first outing.
John
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on November 07, 2019, 02:38:43 PM
As it comes John
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on November 07, 2019, 10:25:54 PM
I'm still waiting for a good day to sail with the adjustments.
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: kinmel on November 07, 2019, 10:39:41 PM
Not myself Dave
I think Kinmel has


I think we have set our radios up in a completely different way but achieving similar outcome
Andy has every channel on it's own control and combines them on the fly to make things happen. I can never remember which control does what and so crash when I shut the throttle to stop. My grandchildren want to sail it too, so it has to do most of the work itself.

I want my Shannon to be exactly the same as my other models when sailing around the lake, left stick up is forward - left stick down is slow, or stop and right stick left or right is steering.  I want the buckets to move when they need to without any special input from me.  Trims the same.   At the same time I want 3 speed ranges- fast on an empty lake, medium when others don't want the wash ruining their sail and a lower speed for  accurate manoeuvring.My radio is now programmed to achieve all of that and next I will try to put sideways docking on a 3 way switch. Up is Port, centre is zero positioning and down is starboard.
OpenTx is so versatile that there is no correct way, there are many routes to the same outcome.

I am more than happy to discuss the project and accept advice and comment.

Download the files below and you can use OpenTX companion to simulate my radio scheme as it is now. Use empty channels to play around with programming

OpenTx Companion - manual and software.....  https://www.open-tx.org/downloads (https://www.open-tx.org/downloads)
Hamilton Jets issue guidance on on controlling the jets.....  https://www.dropbox.com/s/rhvvl506br2ttt2/HJ362%20R1%20A37.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rhvvl506br2ttt2/HJ362%20R1%20A37.pdf?dl=0)    ( Click the down arrow next to "Sign In" and select "Direct Download )
Once you have installed Companion you can get this file and double click it.  Companion will open and you can run the simulation.......   https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ej1ow4ehfwph3j/Shannon.otx?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ej1ow4ehfwph3j/Shannon.otx?dl=0)
A print out of the .otx file is here.....  https://www.dropbox.com/s/p45938pxftonbe6/Shannon_otx.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p45938pxftonbe6/Shannon_otx.pdf?dl=0)

you can use up a lot of time and paper solving each section.
If there is enough interest we can ask martin to create a separate thread.




Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: kinmel on November 08, 2019, 06:35:09 AM
This model is setup for my firmware and the servos in my Shannon, running it "as is" in your boat may damage the trim tabs, nozzles and buckets.

You can safely run it in OpenTx companion, but there is a process for adapting it to your personal setup. 

Later I will add an explanation in Dropbox on how to do it.


Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: The Old Fart on November 08, 2019, 03:20:37 PM
Thanks for the links Kinmel.


I might invest in a X9E,


just need another Shannon kit.
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on November 08, 2019, 04:00:20 PM
Two unbuilt MBD have recently changed hands
Chris Hoverd got one and ordered his jets already  :-))


Yes ditto Dave thanks for the links Alan.


HAPPY birthday Dave  :-)
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Andyn on November 08, 2019, 09:43:23 PM
I might invest in a X9E,
Not wishing to redirect the thread, just conveying info that at the end of the month I may well be selling a very well looked after X9D. PM me if interested :-))
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: The Old Fart on November 09, 2019, 02:13:56 PM
@Kinmel,


Now I've seen your program, I understand how the transmitter works.


Have you had any thoughts about independent manual controls?


Dave
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: kinmel on November 09, 2019, 03:41:46 PM
Independent is relatively straight forward.
Look at the nozzles which are treated identically, but on their own channels 4 & 12.
 Input is 100% of right stick horizontal
mixes is the same.. ( I4 is channel 4 on the input page )
Outputs are the same with limits adjusted to manage servo throw. ( these is the most important settings   - no matter what the logic channels produce as a final figure these limits are absolute  and protect your nozzles being pushed too far ).

Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: The Old Fart on November 09, 2019, 04:03:31 PM
I was thinking more of, left hand stick for port drive power and direction, right stick for starboard power and direction.  maybe manual control of the buckets.


I have that setup on my I6x, but using an arduino for the mixing.



Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: kinmel on November 09, 2019, 05:06:40 PM
Identify the stick movement for each channel
I would have:-
Port Motor on Ch 1 is "Thrust"  on stick Left/Vertical.      Input is "Thr Weight(100%)  since there is no mixing,  mixer is Thr Weight ( 100% )  and since the motor has no reverse,  output is  Min = 0.0%  and Max = 100%  *

Port Nozzle on Ch2  is "Ail" on stick Left/Horizontal.   Input is "Ail Weight(100%) since there is no mixing,  mixer is Ail Weight ( 100% ) and output is limited to Min = -45%  and Max = 45% *  100% throw would destroy the nozzle.
Stbd Motor on Ch 3 is "Ele"  on stick Right/Vertical.      Input is Ele Weight(100%) since there is no mixing,  mixer is Ele Weight ( 100% ) and since the motor has no reverse,  output is  Min = 0.0%  and Max = 100%  *
STbd Nozzle on Ch2  is "Rud" on stick Right/Horizontal.   Input is Rud Weight(100%)  since there is no mixing,  mixer is Rud Weight ( 100% )  and output is limited to Min = -45%  and Max = 45% *  100% throw would destroy the nozzle* You also need to set the direction of throw in Outputs.Other channels are set up in the same way.
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: The Old Fart on November 09, 2019, 05:10:52 PM
nice, thanks

Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: The Old Fart on November 10, 2019, 04:06:25 PM
Would these ocean drives be suitable for a 1:16 Shannon, or would the look too much overscale.
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on November 10, 2019, 04:43:44 PM
I would say too big Dave
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: The Old Fart on November 10, 2019, 04:45:29 PM
Pity, was looking at a 1:16 shannon.
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on November 10, 2019, 04:47:00 PM
I don't think Ocean works would downsize for the very small potential sales
Title: Re: OceanWorks Jet drives for 1:12 scale Shannon Lifeboats
Post by: Taranis on November 14, 2019, 07:11:43 PM
This is the revised coupling that I believe will be supplied on future orders.
This picture also illustrates the casting improvements made since my thread start



(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zkQNZWL/0/a3a36f9c/X2/i-zkQNZWL-X2.jpg)