Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Colin Bishop on September 10, 2019, 02:11:20 pm
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There is a report in today's paper that the RNLI are making 135 staff, mainly at Poole, redundant in an effort to balance the books. This apparently represents 8% of the workforce.
They say that income has fallen off substantially, mainly from loss of legacies which would explain the letter I received asking me to provide for them in my will. I'm quite happy to continue support as a joint Offshore member with Mrs B but I'm afraid my worldly goods will go to our daughters (if there is anything left after the nursing home...)
Colin
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Your mention of "if anything left after the nursing home" got me thinking:
I wonder how many more people would leave money to charity if they could put it in their will that, say, 10% of their estate at the time they went into care was a bequest? The money could be set aside and held in trust, and not counted towards care costs. The state/local authority would start paying for care when the estate dropped to the threshold (£16k I think) plus the value of the bequest. Upon their death, the money held in trust would be paid to the charity.
Bit of a gamble on longevity, but the chances are the money runs out, and the dependents don't lose because the money was "taken" up front. If the person dies early into their stay in a care home, the dependents lose out to a maximum of 10%.
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I have also received that letter and like Colin I will continue with my Shoreline membership and be a ember of their online supporters review panel? It would help if the management stopped being so politicly correct, show more support for it's long standing volunteers and crews. Also start selling their plans for lifeboats especially the older ones where should be no copyright issues from their shop?
Slinger
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"to provide for them in my will" >>:-(
..at first glance this may appear as an intangible asset, however it is not a great deal different than Pyramid selling
Creative accounting then urges such donors to complete and provide complex detail to the Financiers of the Scheme who are a separate Company with no association [other than financial] to the entity [the RLNI in this case] they represent
So based on mathematical financial futuring, that 'far off' asset can be used as collateral for current borrowings & so add to the working capital
It is disappointing that a group such as the RLNI Management has fallen for such dubious Commercial misgivings. >:-o
....like the only one to get rich quick are those creative accountants >>:-( from the Finance Company
Derek
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Whilst it’s always a shame to see jobs go, for a while now people have been complaining that the RNLI has become a bit ‘top heavy’ so something like this is probably due. And, arguably, if they hadn’t just spent a shedload of money building a huge production facility, they may have been able to keep the staff, but I guess they think long term that they’ll be saving money by building in house.
The future must be looking rather bleak for the RNLI though as each generation that passes on has less money to leave. Couple that with more expensive faster boats which burn more fuel and you have a bit of a nightmare.
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I wish people would have a look at their (and any other charity’s) annual accounts. Look at the property and assets they own, look at the number of personnel earning over £100000 etc.
When first made redundant from my first shipping company my boss encouraged me to join him working (not volunteering) for a big charity. What he told me left me horrified such that I told him where to shove it and have never given to any charity since.
Jerry.
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Hullo Jerry....hope all is well & the Narrowboat is afloat ;) ...
As a Red + blood donor, I accept all semi related e-mails..........today one from the Australian Heart Foundation.....[asking for a donation]
They are a good cause.........went looking to see what was behind the Donate Now button..??????
Some Company by the name of charidy ..... not the Heart Foundation at all >>:-( ...... but a Private Registered Collection Group Company ...I wonder what % of the donations actually go the the Heart Foundation?
I don't mind 500ml of Plasma each 2 weeks, or 500ml of whole blood each 12 weeks.......but sadly like you, would not offer 1 Cent to a Collections Company
Derek
[PS.....my next Red+ blood visit will be the 88th on the 29th of October]
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I did just tell a lie. When my tug Parat fouled a rowing boat mooring on Llyn Padarn two divers rescued it for me. They wouldn’t take any cash but asked me to donate to the Air Ambulance. So I donated what I offered them but had my fingers crossed when I did it.
Jerry.
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I lost faith in the RNLI management when they employed "Diversity Officers" on over £40k a year.
When i queried the costings I was told that the lagacies paid for positions such as these.
As an ex seaman I have the greatest respect for the crews but not the senior management.
Bob
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Each month I donate directly to the Crew Comforts Fund of a local station. It helps compensate crew for costs they can't avoid, but Poole won't fund.
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The head honcho figure head is usually a retired senior RN Admiral. His retirement package and pension would make you weep and he’s one of the top earners in the RNLI. I saw the figures once and was really shocked. Not sure if it’s the same now but at the coal face only the boats mechanic got paid and the rest were taxed on their expenses!
Jerry.
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Maybe they should adopt a recovery charging scheme for the expensive yachts they rescue
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There is no doubt that a lot of the top people in large and medium sized charities can be considered to be overpaid given the nature of their organisation. And a lot of charities are little more than government sub contractors these days.
I spent most of my career in local government. When I joined, the public and private sectors were very distinct with management pay in the public service much lower than in the private sector. Notwithstanding the discrepancy there were a lot of very clever and competent people in the public sector who had a commitment to public service. They had a decent salary but nowhere near that of the bankers etc. Bankers don’t ‘earn’ money, they just cream off percentages on deals irrespective of the amount of work actually put in.
As time went on the Governments of the day thought it would be a good idea to inject some private sector efficiency into the public sector and energise some of the ‘jobsworths’ who inhabited it.
This was a worthy intention but didn’t quite work out as intended. Chief Execs were parachuted in from the private sector to tell us how to do things and of course they brought their stratospheric salaries with them This opened up a huge gap between them and their subordinates and as nature abhors a vacuum, middle and senior management salaries rose to fill the gap at a lot of expense.
The new Messiahs almost all failed in their new jobs. As company chiefs they had total control to direct operations. It doesn’t work like that in the public sector as there are all sorts of rules, regulations and laws to be observed and which get in the way. This is known as the ‘Democratic Overhead’ and usually flummoxed the incomers who rapidly moved back to the private sector leaving chaos in their wakes.
There were certainly some deadbeats in Local Government as in all organisations, but there was good practice too. In the 1970s I had a team of around 15 part time ladies working for me in a Local Area Education Office who were responsible for supplying 120 schools with all the day to day items and services they needed to operate. It was subsequently decided that schools should have their own admin/bursar staff to have local control but the resulting total cost was hugely more expensive than the original arrangements which worked fine. This was considered to be an ‘improvement’ by the powers that be.
What has happened with charities is that they are comparing themselves with private sector organisations which they consider to be an equivalent size and therefore their senior management deserve to be paid at a similar rate. This is a complete fallacy.
Looking at the RNLI it is a ‘bottom heavy’ organisation in that all the important stuff in delivering the service happens at local level where most of the participants are actually unpaid volunteers. It seems to me that the RNLI backup simply exists to provide decent boats, good equipment and comprehensive training facilities which are all essentially subordinate to its core function.
In my view the top boss should do the job for nothing but expenses as a privilege in supporting the people who go out to sea to rescue people.
Rant over!
Colin
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Well interesting article....
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7464961/How-3-3million-donations-RNLI-spent-abroad.html
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I feel that will certainly damage income %%
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Yes, using funds donated to support the British and Irish rescue services to fund foreign initiatives would seem to be beyond their remit. As somebody pointed out, they are not the Royal International Lifeboat Institution.
No reason why the RNLI's expertise shouldn't be tapped by other nations but it should be funded by those parties, other relevant charities or the international aid budget.This does rather smack of empire building on the part of RNLI management.
Colin
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Daily Fail though so may be fictitious {-)
Seriously is misappropriation of donations
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RNLI have responded to the criticism:
https://rnli.org/news-and-media/2019/september/15/information-about-the-rnlis-international-work
Colin
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Well overseas aid is news to me so they are not doing a good job of publicising the fact.
I think they are on shaky ground just like the RSPB were a while ago over selling bequeathed land to building developers against their wishes
Time will tell
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I guess a lot of this international aid requires extensive 'fact finding' missions to decide which pet project is worthy.
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The only charity I regularly support is my local RSPCA (both of my dogs have come from there)
Every time I go grocery shopping I buy some pet food & take it to my local centre, at least I know that every penny I spend goes to the animals..
Paul..
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Must admit giving aid to internationals is not what I give contributions to the RNLI for.
I will now donate to the air ambulance instead.
John
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It’s bad enough that our own government gives so much away in foreign aid
Our country is in debt so any money we give away is borrowed money on which you the tax payer pay interest. Full services at home with no debt should come first
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A classic case of 'mission creep' perhaps.
Colin
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In another thread on this forum a while back I remember reading of the experience of distributing from a will to recipients but one of them was a charity who were due 5 % and they made life very difficult demanding several quotes on selling items etc. His recommendation was that you should leave a fixed sum if you really want to.
I worked as a Learning Support Assistant in a local infants school and they had to buy their consumables from only one source. One item that springs to mind was the cost of plastic sleaves for A4 documents. They had to pay £3 per hundred I was paying 50p per hundred so I bought a pounds worth and left them in the supplies room. I also sorted out their IT equipment contracts (an expertise from work) and they paid a lot less.
My wife left a very well known Cats charity when she found out what was going on at head office. There were expensive cars with special number plates, *** 1 and 2 and 3, will not go into details.
We collect for and invite in the RNLI to our Model Show but I am very wary of large charities, favouring small and local only myself.
regards
Roy
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This cuts quite deep when I have supported them for over 40 years, although i may now divert my contributions direct to my station of choice.
Still full of admiration for our volunteer crews and thankless support for the countless fundraisers.
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Don’t stations divert money raised directly back to ivory tower HQ?
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If you donate to the Crew Comforts Fund at the station of your choice, the money is used directly by
the station for amenities for the station that the
RNLI don't fund.
Ned
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Thank you Ned I did not know that :-))
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Nor did I.
Colin
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Kinmel mentioned it at the start of this thread.
Ned
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I had a quiet word with the Station's Treasurer and then I set up a monthly Direct Debit for a modest sum. Such things are frowned upon by Poole, but nowhere does the account mention the RNLI and since it is invisible it clearly cannot exist.
I don't think these account hold a lot of money, but what is there is of direct benefit to the crew and nothing else.
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Your mention of "if anything left after the nursing home" got me thinking:
I wonder how many more people would leave money to charity if they could put it in their will that, say, 10% of their estate at the time they went into care was a bequest? The money could be set aside and held in trust, and not counted towards care costs. The state/local authority would start paying for care when the estate dropped to the threshold (£16k I think) plus the value of the bequest. Upon their death, the money held in trust would be paid to the charity.
Bit of a gamble on longevity, but the chances are the money runs out, and the dependents don't lose because the money was "taken" up front. If the person dies early into their stay in a care home, the dependents lose out to a maximum of 10%.
Thats the worst thing one can do is leave a percentage to any charity. My mate (a widower)and neighbour did this and as soon as the charity knew Virtually the next day they were round doing an inventory they insisted on 3 valuations on the property and it HAD to go to the max price . The family were only just getting around the loss of their mum but these people were like vultures. By all means leave something to charity but fixed amount
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I can echo from family experience that a relative leaving money to charity in a will can be a dreadful experience, they want their money. I suspect the solicitors made money from all the letters exchanged. As for the RNLI buying burkinis when laying off staff >>:-(
Paul
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and now they provide a ferry service is the south east of the UK .
John
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Isn’t there a rule in charity law that if you define what your donation is to be spent on, then it can only be used for that purpose? For example, if you donate £100 and say it must be spent on crew kit for the Salcombe lifeboat, then it can only be used for that purpose?
From what I’ve heard the money sent abroad was sent after a fundraising campaign for that very purpose, i.e. the people who donated the money that went over did so in full knowledge, but it still doesn’t excuse the RNLI from focusing their attention away from their core aim.
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/16/rnli-donations-surge-tory-criticism-work-overseas-lifeboat-charity (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/16/rnli-donations-surge-tory-criticism-work-overseas-lifeboat-charity)
Well worth a read as it discusses the RNLI policy on supporting overseas initiatives.
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Terrific picture :-)) The close up reveals a new type capstan and Radar motor housing
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/156461345b0d175436eba6cd095ce485a2391a34/0_207_3500_2099/master/3500.jpg?width=1920&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=d21ea0f11b38229fcf5ec9dac201f620)
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I heard on the Beeb today that the RNLI has reported a spike in donations, even after the story about burkinis (whatever they are). That may or may not turn out to be fake news.... Any publicity is good publicity, perhaps?
In the meantime we should all continue to support those brave volunteers who are on alert 24/7, in the knowledge that if we stop doing so for whatever reason then they won't be there to save lives at sea - which is what it's all about.
DaveM
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I have seen this coming for a long time, Charity begins at home and the other one, Cut your cloth according to your means. The CEO on nearly £200 k , how many jobs would that pay for, it is a disgrace, nemesis
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The £3.3M they are wasting overseas would pay £25k salary for each of the 135 people they are shedding. Nice to know what their priorities are.
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I doubt that the foreign aid publicity and the spike in donations are connected. Time will tell but I think they are miscalculating public opinion
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I have seen this coming for a long time, Charity begins at home and the other one, Cut your cloth according to your means. The CEO on nearly £200 k , how many jobs would that pay for, it is a disgrace, nemesis
Presumably you want an effective, experienced CEO for an organisation like the RNLI or any charity - why would not expect to pay market rate for this role?
C-3PO
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Presumably you want an effective, experienced CEO for an organisation like the RNLI or any charity - why would not expect to pay market rate for this role?
C-3PO
Yes but ceo have over inflated there pay packets and not dilivered . This is across the board ,banks charites public sector the list goes on. High pay does not equeal high intelegence . Banks , KodaK ,Woolworths just to name a few and of course we can forget the classic Ratner . Sorry not sean a case for high pay in years . You can find the same skill for a lot less . Most CEO have advisores so dont have to do much work
John
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I tend to agree that salaries in excess of that for running the country are open to ridicule
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This is just an administration role - he doesn't create anything - they just allocate spending of the money they're given. Even the PM's salary is only £160k.
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Wow - can of worms!
Not one CEO delivering value for their exorbitant salary - really?
"Just administration, doesn't create anything" - no strategic leadership - really?
I agree that the PM role @ £160k is way out of touch with business - not a good role to benchmark against - should be a lot more
I also wonder if some of you are in touch with the types of pay rates that happen in 2019 "junior/middle" management roles let alone senior roles
Just my tuppence
C-3PO
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Why does a simple service with basic money in, money out suddenly need 'strategic vision'? Or blue-sky thinking or goal-oriented empowerment and synchronous strategies? It's all BS - it's exactly the same thinking that has filled councils with all sorts of non-jobs and why local services are so bad. Everyone loves to spend other people's money on themselves. If the guys on the boats are doing it for free, the very least the top management should be doing is giving their time for free. There's plenty of excellent ex-managers giving their time for free as trustees of other charities - what makes these parasites so special?
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Or of course pay the ships crews a market led wage.
If you need this for management why not the people who actually deliver the service?
On call 24/7 365 days a year I would guess £49k average ships crew.
Why are management paid enormous sums of monew but not the crews.
Sorry it makes me annoyed.
Bob
Bob
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Talking about overpayments to CEO's!
Here in Aus they have just advised of the excessive payments to the top few CEO's in the country, and the bloke that comes out on top is the CEO of Qantas.
His total package comes in at over 23 million! That's correct, over 23 million! Nobody in any job is worth that sort of money in my opinion.
Ian.
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And the Victorian has just got an 11% pay rise and only allows 2% pay rises for paramedics and nurses etc. >>:-(
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Maybe a good start point would be to establish what the CEO actually gets paid in his pay packet rather than the cost of employment.
According to the RNLI website the 2018 "cost of employment" for the CE0 was sub £200k including salary, employers NI contributions, pension and provision of a car - a rough rule of thumb is that you can add 50% to the "actual salary" as additional employment cost.
But I can see that some opinion is that £1 is too much salary for a CEO of a charity - I will beg to differ and agree to disagree.
C-3PO
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Or of course pay the ships crews a market led wage.
If you need this for management why not the people who actually deliver the service?
On call 24/7 365 days a year I would guess £49k average ships crew.
Why are management paid enormous sums of money but not the crews.
Sorry it makes me annoyed.
Bob
There's the puzzle, Bob. When it comes to "the going rate for the job" it's always the highest-paid folk who are used as the comparator for senior managent posts, whereas it's the lowest-paid menials for the shop-floor jobs.
I guess the reason for that is because it's management who do the comparing and sign the cheques...
Personally I'm with the Julian Richer (of Richer Sounds) philosophy - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/14/richer-sounds-staff-julian-richer (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/14/richer-sounds-staff-julian-richer) :-))
DaveM
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Hmm!! That has me thinking in terms of my own will.
Will have to look into it further as I want it set in such a way that whoever my trustee is, they look after my estate in the way I wish it to be 'dished out' for want of a better phrase.
I don't want whoever my nominated charity is, dictating how my spoils are divided. Such a bloody minefield. Can't even have the ability to Rest in Peace >>:-( <*<
Thats the worst thing one can do is leave a percentage to any charity. My mate (a widower)and neighbour did this and as soon as the charity knew Virtually the next day they were round doing an inventory they insisted on 3 valuations on the property and it HAD to go to the max price . The family were only just getting around the loss of their mum but these people were like vultures. By all means leave something to charity but fixed amount
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There have also been occasions when someone has left £50k to a charity and the remainder to their relatives as percentages. If you end up in a care home and the fees eat most of your capital, the charity gets the first £50k and the family get little, or nothing.
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Having acted as executor for a complex family estate I confirm that the whole business can be a total minefield with unexpected effects unless the will is very carefully written. Percentages, unless they are equal shares to relatives can give the executor a real headache and percentages to charities can be an open invitation to problems as mentioned above.
As well as financial assets, something else to remember is the personal effects of the deceased. It is common practice for beneficiaries to be able to express an interest in items of sentimental or practical value with those not chosen being sold off at auction. This can work if everyone is on good terms but not so much if two beneficiaries want the same item or say, the daughter wants all her Mum's valuable jewellery which makes up a disproportionate value of the personal effects. It an be a good idea for all the effects and furniture etc.to be formally valued then if one beneficiary chooses items of greater value than the others then they get a smaller share of the proceeds of the remaining stuff that goes to auction. Some of this, such as jewellery, can of course be itemised in the will and often is but can distort the overall shareout if there are several beneficiaries.
I strongly recommend getting a will drawn up by a competent professional who can explain unintended consequences, don't use unqualified will writers or, Heaven forbid, the pro formas from W.H.Smith. That way disaster lies!
NEVER appoint a bank as Executor as they will usually charge on a percentage basis plus expenses and will leave a huge hole in the amount left for distribution.
A solicitor can be better but will still be expensive
Both banks and solicitors work at their own pace which can be frustratingly leisurely, especially if there is a house to be sold. They also depend on the family to provide them with all the information and documents they need so those left behind still have a job and a half in assembling all the paperwork anyway.
Best of all, if you have a trusted family member who is savvy with paperwork and is willing to act as executor then appoint them, preferably with a backup in case they pre decease you. That way they retain control of the process and the beneficiaries (of whom they may be one) will bless you. Dealing with most estates is not difficult, you just have to be methodical and willing to read up on the rules. There is plenty of advice out there. Some matters will need professional input but the executor can employ solicitors and accountants as and when required which keeps fees under control.
In my case I reckon that doing the job myself must have saved at least £10k-£15k in 'professiona'l fees and 9-12 months in completing the process.
Colin
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Hi al, I can echo Colin's response. I remember being an executor for my father's will. He had a part time job working for solicitors in Lincolns Inn Fields (Posh place then) and he was convinced to have them do his will. They were also Executors!
Now he was well liked and managed the administration for them for 6 or 7 years. When he died the solicitors sent me all the questions to answer and they did very little but still charged the full %age rate for their part. I was not impressed! No thought to him having been on their staff.
With that in mind I did all the legal work including conveyancing a house (it is quite easy) when my in-laws died, saved a lot of money.
regards
Roy
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Always make a proper will, it will save your nearest and dearest so much grief!
Yet a lot of people simply can't face up to the possibility that one day they will be dead. Very selfish!
Colin
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I can't possibly die, I have too many boats to build first.
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You may end up building the Flying Dutchman then...
Colin
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Wonder if there will be a modelling shop beyond the Pearly Gates as I assume their will not be an on line shop facility . Also assuming thats where I will be heading.
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If you go to the other place,you should get the latest HOT deals. {-)
John
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Wow - can of worms!
Not one CEO delivering value for their exorbitant salary - really?
"Just administration, doesn't create anything" - no strategic leadership - really?
I agree that the PM role @ £160k is way out of touch with business - not a good role to benchmark against - should be a lot more
I also wonder if some of you are in touch with the types of pay rates that happen in 2019 "junior/middle" management roles let alone senior roles
Just my tuppence
C-3PO
Two words
Thomas Cook
John
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Hit a chord with me too {-)
Don’t just Thomas Cook it :embarrassed:
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Two words
Thomas Cook
John
"REWARDS FOR FAILURE’ Thomas Cook collapse – Bosses pocketed £47m in pay and bonuses from doomed travel giant before collapse that left 150,000 Brits stranded"
One word "Comparison?"
C-3PO