Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: leachim on October 24, 2019, 04:59:47 PM

Title: Lights - advice please
Post by: leachim on October 24, 2019, 04:59:47 PM
Still working through my Occre Ulyses Steam Tug kit making steady progress and am looking to add working lights. The illustration with the kit shows a light at the top of the mast (anchor light I presume) then 3 lamps facing forward (one white mast head light and two white towing lights I think). Now here is where I have a query. The illustration with the kit show a single lamp facing rearwards would this be the yellow rear towing light? If so where would the white stern light be? as there is no indication on the kit plans of any lighting aft of the mast other than the red and green navigation lamps on the cabin roof.


Hope someone can help as it's doing my head in!


Mike
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Skimmer Fan on October 24, 2019, 05:11:49 PM

I do not know if this link will help you.
www.bosunsmate.org/seamanship/lights.php


 Found this on another web site.
The Amber stern facing towing light was not accepted internationally until some time in the late 70's or early 80's (I believe) so your photos may not show it.
 
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Stan on October 24, 2019, 05:15:35 PM
HI look for butts on mayhem and send him a pm.

Stan. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Akira on October 24, 2019, 06:43:56 PM
I believe, and don't bet me too hard if i get this wrong, that There should be one mast head light showing 360 degrees, the three white towing lights showing 135 degrees, the two colored nav lights, and the rear facing white light should show 180 degrees as it is a nav light. This can vary depending on which set of lighting regulations are used, but I think that that is the international set up.
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: T888 on October 25, 2019, 06:20:10 AM
Does this help?


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1355743321 (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1355743321)
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: leachim on October 25, 2019, 12:21:13 PM
Many thanks for the replies. I have followed the links and they have been very helpful however I have the problem of locating where on my boat to place the lights.
 I bought a lighting kit from Mobile Marine Models and have been referring to their schematic that shows an anchor light at the top of the mast, a masthead light and two towing lights facing forward, red and green nav lights then a white stern light and a yellow towing light.


I attach a photo of the picture on the box and have marked up where I thing the various lights should be. I am still a little confused as to where I should place the stern light, would it have been on the rear of the mast or further aft in which case where would it have been located typically? Also I cannot decide where the yellow towing light should be on my boat. Surely it must have been forward of the towing hook or it could have been taken out by the tow rope.


Any ideas?


Mike
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Colin Bishop on October 25, 2019, 01:07:14 PM
Have a look at Section 4.6.2.1 here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/291901/00_-_msis_10_rev_4.0_draft_v2.pdf

It covers the problem of not being able to mount stern lights right aft on towing vessels and suggests the end of the accommodation instead. For example, above the towing hook.

Colin
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Skimmer Fan on October 25, 2019, 01:19:16 PM
Just came across the positioning of the rear facing navigation light the Brocklebank in Liverpool.
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Akira on October 25, 2019, 01:21:07 PM
I would tend to agree with Colin. Mounting the stern light on the mast, even a bit lower than the mast light, would, at a distance, appear as an anchor light. Do you have access to photos of the real boat?
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: leachim on October 26, 2019, 12:13:34 PM
There is room on the mast at the rear of the accommodation block although the plans show no lights there I may just fabricate something as it looks right. I'm still at a loss to understand quite what the lamp on the rear of the mast is for as I'm sure that there is a need for separation between the forward lights and the stern light to give an impression of the boats length in the dark. Would the white stern light and the yellow towing light be placed together?


As far as photographs are concerned I've not found anything and can only assume that the kit is a typical 1960's ocean going steam tug and not a specific boat. I know there are a couple of Ulyses builders on Mayhem, what did you do regarding lights?


Mike
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Netleyned on October 26, 2019, 02:17:05 PM
Masthead lights signify the vessel's length.
The running lights should be off when the
vessel is at anchor with just the anchor light
and perhaps some upperdeck lighting on.


Ned
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on October 26, 2019, 07:14:09 PM
There is room on the mast at the rear of the accommodation block although the plans show no lights there I may just fabricate something as it looks right. I'm still at a loss to understand quite what the lamp on the rear of the mast is for as I'm sure that there is a need for separation between the forward lights and the stern light to give an impression of the boats length in the dark. Would the white stern light and the yellow towing light be placed together?


As far as photographs are concerned I've not found anything and can only assume that the kit is a typical 1960's ocean going steam tug and not a specific boat. I know there are a couple of Ulyses builders on Mayhem, what did you do regarding lights?


Mike

The single white on the back of the mast would all a mariner would need to see to know that they are behind another vessel.
Sailing to either side of that lamp would eventually bring into view either of the colored side marking lamps, when overtaking.

On a model however, when sailing at night, there is a bit of pleasure in setting the white stern mast light father aft, and
also making it 360 visible.  By setting it up this way, you can watch the two white mast lamps align, or swing apart as
the model turns. Then verify your sailing left or right by the color, red or green, marking lamp that appears.

Sailing directly away will show only the two white lamps in alignment.
Sailing directly toward will show the two colored marking lamps, and the white lamps in alignment..

May not be accurate to maritime regulations, but sincerely a pleasure in the dark to know the model's heading.
 :-))
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: leachim on October 29, 2019, 05:45:38 PM
OK now a problem has emerged. I have three white LED's wired in parallel on my mast they work fine when connected via a resistor to the battery. I have this afternoon added a yellow LED attached also in parallel with the same resistor but when I connect to the battery the yellow one lights up but the others don't. Polarity must be correct or it wouldn't light up. Any suggestions why it does this?
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: cos918 on October 29, 2019, 06:32:46 PM
The yellow LED needs less current to run . The resistor can only run so many LED. You maxed it out with 3 whites. Now you added a yellow. It can not diliver enough current to light up all 4 leds. You will need to run the yellow LED on its own resitor and wire.

John
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: leachim on October 29, 2019, 06:38:03 PM
Thanks John. I did wonder if that might be the case. I will need to run another positive up the mast.

Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: leachim on November 07, 2019, 12:16:56 PM
Ok stupid question time


I have run a separate positive feed up the mast to my yellow LED connecting the negative to a common with the rest of the lights there. It is lighting up but is very dim. Does this mean that I have to large a resistor or does it need its own negative? The resistor I'm using was supplied with the LED so I have to assume it's correct. I'm sure it lit up more brightly before so can't quite understand what's happening. You will have guessed that I'm a novice when it comes to electronics.


Mike
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: grendel on November 07, 2019, 03:14:27 PM
different colour LED's may have different resistors required
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: C-3PO on November 07, 2019, 03:30:18 PM
Hi Mike,

I haven't read the whole thread - what battery voltage are you using  and what are the colour bands on the resistor?

Useful resources

http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/led-resistor-calculator (http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/led-resistor-calculator)

https://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/ledcalc.php (https://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/ledcalc.php)

https://www.lutonmodelboat.co.uk/hints/LEDs%20Part%201.pdf#toolbar=1&navpanes=0&statusbar=0&zoom=100 (https://www.lutonmodelboat.co.uk/hints/LEDs%20Part%201.pdf#toolbar=1&navpanes=0&statusbar=0&zoom=100)

https://www.lutonmodelboat.co.uk/hints/LEDs%20Part%202.pdf#toolbar=1&navpanes=0&statusbar=0&zoom=100 (https://www.lutonmodelboat.co.uk/hints/LEDs%20Part%202.pdf#toolbar=1&navpanes=0&statusbar=0&zoom=100)

C-3PO
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: C-3PO on November 07, 2019, 05:08:23 PM
Another LED resource

https://www.componentshop.co.uk/led-exp/ (https://www.componentshop.co.uk/led-exp/)
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: leachim on November 07, 2019, 05:31:05 PM
6 volt


brown / black / red / gold (according to my wife whose colour vision is much better than mine)









Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: C-3PO on November 07, 2019, 05:59:37 PM
Hi Mike

Here is an online resistor calculator

https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/resources/conversion-calculators/conversion-calculator-resistor-color-code-4-band (https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/resources/conversion-calculators/conversion-calculator-resistor-color-code-4-band)

And here is a generic LED resistor calculator

https://www.kitronik.co.uk/blog/led-resistor-value-calculator/ (https://www.kitronik.co.uk/blog/led-resistor-value-calculator/)

Your brown/black/red/gold = 1k Ohms 5% which is about 5 times too much resistance!! hence a dim LED

Typically a Yellow LED @ 6v needs something more like 220 ohms (red/red/brown) or possibly 180 ohm (brown/grey/brown)

Doing this from memory which is always dangerous! - sure someone will correct me if I am wrong...

C-3PO
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Stan on November 08, 2019, 06:01:37 PM
Hi sent you pm did you receive?

Stan.
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: leachim on November 08, 2019, 11:10:15 PM
PM replied to, Thanks Stan


Mike
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Stan on November 11, 2019, 07:50:59 AM
Hi Mike use the formula in the back of the Component Shop book for either parallel or in series it makes the use of this type lighting simple all the best.




Stan
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: meechingman on November 12, 2019, 09:10:15 AM
Or you could just make up a simple 'power supply' for all your LEDs and do away with the need for any resistors. If I assume that your LEDs all require 3v, then a small piece of breadboard with a 3V voltage regulator would suffice. That's what I've done on all of mine. On the largest model with a mix of LED and 3V GOW illumination, I've started with a 5V regulator and put a set of miniature pots on the board. So I have 3V for the LEDs and several variable voltages for the GOW (bright for exterior, dimmer for interior).
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: malcolmfrary on November 12, 2019, 10:12:48 AM
A side effect of LEDs is that they are also voltage regulators, at a different voltage for each colour of LED.  If they are mixed in parallel via one resistor, the one that wants the lowest voltage wins and lights up.  The others never see the voltage that they need, so don't light up.
The one that wins might only do so for a short time as it will be passing the current intended for all of the others, which might be too much.
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: meechingman on November 12, 2019, 10:17:26 AM
In that case, the solution I used for my GOW bulbs would seem to fit the bill, with different voltage lines for different colours.


I have to say that the yellow, white, green and red LEDs on my largest tug all light up just as they should on a 3V line.
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: leachim on November 23, 2019, 02:01:20 PM
Found some time and thought an update was in order. All the lights on the accommodation block, interior, navigation, stern and searchlights are now installed and working. I had a problem with the interior cabin lights which worked fine until I put the cabin roof together when they went out! All sorted now, they were shorting out on a bit of exposed wire which is now insulated solving the problem. I had a small problem with my red navigation lamp that stopped working, somehow I had managed to break the positive leg right at the base of the LED, couldn't see it until I dismantled the set up, new LED in place and working well.
I have 4 circuits, 1 the navigation lights, 2 interior lights, 3 searchlights, 4 stern light. All fed through individual resistors for each circuit and a small toggle switch that allows me to choose which lights to have operating. Many thanks for all your help, the links to resistor calculators were a great help.
I need to finish work on the hull now before I can install the mast lighting that will be on two circuits, again manually switched, I have tested the circuits and all works fine. Just hope they still work once installed as they will be a b***er to change out.


Thanks once again for all the help


Mike
Title: Re: Lights - advice please
Post by: Stan on November 23, 2019, 03:46:10 PM
HI Mike  glad I could help with something that is really simple if explained in simple terms. Your next step will be to remove those switches and fit a ACTION  electronic quad switch.

Stan. weeks ago {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ now. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))