Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: DJW on January 06, 2020, 02:34:02 pm

Title: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 06, 2020, 02:34:02 pm
Hi All


Just started the build. Been reading the existing build logs with great interest and learning a lot, some great results being achieved..!


My background relating to RC and model boats, built and raced Multi boats in the 70's, then left to play with some full sized boats... Dabbled with a couple of electric boats in past 10 years, plus a Dragonforce 65 yacht, and a TREX 450 helicopter.  Stronger on the metalwork side than the woodwork if I'm honest...


So onto a bigger challenge (for me), the Amati Aquarama...  Reasons for posting here:


1. I welcome any input from those that have gone before me with this kit.
2. I plan to use the kit as a basis and to incorporate some more bespoke work, so welcome any thoughts if I stray too far from reality...


Currently working on preparing the basic structure, keel and ribs, getting the stern sorted out ready to assemble.


Some initial thoughts and plans:


1. I didn't like the look of the Amati motors / running gear in the supplementary kit, so...


- I have a couple of Overlander 3530 Outrunners rated at 1100kv, 340W each. Matched to 3C lipos (to be decided on when actual space in known.) [size=78%]https://www.overlander.co.uk/tornado-thumper-v3-3530-14-1100kv-brushless-outrunner-rc-motor.html (https://www.overlander.co.uk/tornado-thumper-v3-3530-14-1100kv-brushless-outrunner-rc-motor.html)[/size]


- Plan is to build a watercooled mount for each motor that will allow use of a toothed belt arrangement (3:2 reduction so slower shaft, more torque) so I can get the propshaft to a low angle. ( I see videos on YouTube of these models running very bow down and suspect the steep shaft angle of the kit is one of the reasons.)


- Custom made 4mm propshafts / tubes running exposed out of the hull via bushed P bracket. PropShop 1415 brass props to start with.


- 2 x Shark 30A watercooled ESCs [size=78%]https://www.ztwoem.com/product/shark-30a-bec/ (https://www.ztwoem.com/product/shark-30a-bec/)[/size]


- Custom rudders. I think they need to be close the full size aspect, maybe scaled up a shade, but not too deep.  I see the models banking over when turning and think standard (shaped) model rudders will start to give lift so compound the banking.


2. I'll be using a Futaba T6EX six channel system, and will set it up for 'normal' steering / throttle behavior, and add mixing for reducing inboard motor speed during a turn, and motor only turning on left horizontal stick.


3. LED lighting throughout including dashboard (saw this on a YouTube build log, very cool..!)


4. Modified exhausts.  I'd like to get the coolant just rolling out of the end pipes as seen on the full sized boats.


5. Modified chines...  I think one more reason for the bow digging in is that there's a lot of structural weight up in the bow, and that's where the underwater section of the hull is least buoyant (narrowest / deepest V) and doesn't generate lift at 1/10 scale. (No offense to Carlo...) So, I'm pondering a mod to the ribs to give a one plank widths 'flat chine' for some of the hull length. Aim would be to add some lift at the forward planing area of the hull, and at the same time to deflect some of the water away from the boat...


6. Looking into how best to add a Ski pole...  For a 1/10th Skier... To Ski with...


7. On a more down to earth note, using Titebond 111 for the woodwork, and so far very pleased.

So, there you go.  Other matters to discuss like planking, waterproofing and varnish finishing (a black art if ever I heard of one...)

Please let me know if there's appetite here to document the build.

Very best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: coch y bonddu on January 06, 2020, 02:58:16 pm
Come on what are you waiting for we are all waiting




Dave






Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 06, 2020, 03:48:43 pm

Hi Dave


OK, here's what we have so far:


Some wooden bits...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/06/20200106a.jpg)


Stern / Transom still needing some work to get the fit right:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/06/20200106c.jpg)


And some components:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/06/20200106b.jpg)


Plenty to be done.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 07, 2020, 06:11:38 pm
Built a 'slip' today to get the keel and frames square. Two forward frames bonded in place. Couple of holes being added to frames before bonding to allow wires to be routed along the length of the boat.


Ordered some 'warm white' 3mm LEDs for the docking lights and some 1.8mm versions in warm white, green and red for the various other locations. Handy that the LEDs come in bags of 50...  In case the resistor calculation is off...  :-))   All 3V LEDs that use 25mA, running from a 11.1V Lipo, I'll be testing with a 330 Ohm resistor paired with each LED.


The chrome fittings that come with the kit look reasonable quality to me. I've seen some comments saying otherwise.  I've seen on some pictures and videos that the fittings were hollow, they're solid now.  So they'll need to be drilled / machined to take the LEDs.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/07/20200107.jpg)


Anyone else have one of these in build..?


Best regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: coch y bonddu on January 07, 2020, 07:35:32 pm
Best place to order Led's from as they will supply the correct resistor for your voltage is Component shop.




 https://www.componentshop.co.uk/ (https://www.componentshop.co.uk/)








Dave
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 07, 2020, 08:47:36 pm
Hi Dave


Thanks for that. Just been reading through their LED guide. Very useful indeed, thanks again.


https://www.componentshop.co.uk/led-exp/

David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 10, 2020, 12:10:43 pm
Build progressing...  Playing with LEDs in series to reduce cabling and reduce use of resistors.  This is two 3mm warm whites for docking lights plus on 1.8mm warm white for cabin interior. On test for 24 hours and seem fine.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/10/20200110a.jpg)


Structure now has forward 3 frames bonded to keel and bow reinforcement in place ready to shape. Everything else dry fit at this stage.


[size=78%]


Next bit could be controversial...  Given this will be a working model rather than static, I'm thinking of modifying the mid section frames to produce flat chines, to generate lift and throw water clear... Aft and bow sections remain as Carlo intended.


Given the weight of the lipos towards the stern I think this will lift the bow when under way...  Against this is a slightly deeper 'Vee'. Any comments before I get the saw out gratefully received.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/10/20200110c.jpg)


Stern takes a bit of figuring out to get the bonding order right.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/10/20200110d.jpg)


A pair of 4mm shafts and two brass props from Simon at the Prop Shop are on their way, looking forward to seeing them..!



[/size]
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on January 11, 2020, 09:44:40 pm
David.

Please think hard and long before you cut anything, it would be very difficult to correct if you finish the boat and the modifications turn out to be detrimental to the performance.

The Amati  Riva builds quite heavy for it's size and is prone to shipping water into the cockpit, especially on turns.

I would give some thought to weight saving at every stage of the build where possible and it is very possible.

Regarding lifting the bow, it would be better achieved by weight saving in the fwd cabin, try not to go overboard with unnecessary detail, after all,  it's very  difficult to see in there, unless you use lots of lighting.

Lastly, don't forget that if the bow goes up the stern goes down, thus negating your shallow shaft angle.

Just my thoughts.

Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 11, 2020, 10:53:02 pm
Hi Mike


Sensible stuff. Agreed with the weight saving advice.


You have to take your share of responsibility for this build..! Your build log and insights of what can be done with this kit contributed to my decision to attempt it. Just saying.


I'm sure something needs to be done to the Chines, I saw you used some triangular section. Did it work as hoped..?


I saw that you mentioned Rustins Yacht varnish at the beginning of your build, then used Le Tonkinois, a problem with the Rustins..? I was considering Rustins sealant, filler and varnish.


How did your boat ride on the water..? Did that scale rudder shape help stop the excessive banking in turns..?


With hindsight, anything you wish you had or hadn't done during your build..?


Thanks again for your input.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on January 12, 2020, 03:05:43 pm
Hello David


The spray rails worked reasonably well but I couldn't test it without them of course. I based my decision whilst watching on another Amati Riva, built from the same kit.
When the chap brought the boat in and lifted it out he had to invert it to pour out the water which it shipped in during the 10 min. run. It ran awfully, particularly when it turned at speed.


Regarding the Rustins varnish, I did buy some and tested on some scrap Mahogany, it took over a week before it was hard enough to rub down, so I did not use it. I know nothing about their filler, having never used it.
I make my own fillers for the appropriate timber.


The LeTonkinois it by far the best, (my opinion ), I won't use anything else. If you go down the LeTonk route, make sure you order the Classic and not the Vernis Marine No.1 which is thinner and doesn't have the level of gloss. It is very good, but my preference is the original Classic.
The family that started the LeTonk factory 80 years ago have recently sold out to a large German company, so if you decide on using it, buy it now while it is still the original recipe.


I've never considered feathering the inside prop whilst turning, I personally see no need, the full size Aquarama didn't have it and can't see any need for it although I know some modelers do use it.


Mike.









Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 15, 2020, 05:39:18 pm
Hey Mike


Thanks for these comments.  I'll get hold of a couple of small tins of the 'Le Tonk' classic, I'm not far from Maidenhead, I'll see if I can call over to the importers.


I think I'll go with your route of the additional mahogany section to 'enhance' the chine / spray rail, did you find a supplier or make it up..?  Can't find any after a quick search online...


Feathering the inner prop...  It'll be a programming approach, so can be tweaked or plain taken out if it doesn't help.  I do think a lot of the Aquarama models out there generate lift from deep rudders. So if I can induce a bit of turning effect just from from the motors, it may help. We'll see...


Progress on a few areas of the build...


Two beautiful 35mm props from Pro-Shop have arrived:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/15/20200115b.jpg)


And I'm working on the rudders to go with them, milled and shaped from 3mm brass plate, silver soldered to 4mm stainless shafts. The plates are about 40mm long x 25mm deep:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/15/20200115c.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/15/20200115d.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/15/20200115e.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/15/20200115f.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/15/20200115g.jpg)


Just need to finish and polish them, next will be working on the posts, 'O' rings or seals going in, to stop the water coming up, not sure which yet.


Frames drilled for coolant pipes and cables to keep them out of the way:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/15/20200115h.jpg)


Regards to all.
David.
 
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on January 15, 2020, 06:28:23 pm
Hi David.


1/2 ltr. of the varnish will be more than enough, I put 15 coats on my build and still had almost 1/2 tin left.
It's far better to apply many thin coats than a few thick ones. LeTonkinios hates being applied thickly and gives it's highest gloss when applied very thinly.


I cut my own Mahogany for the spray rails, as like you, I couldn't find any either. If you get stuck I will cut some for you.


Are the propeller blades soft soldered into the hubs ?


The rudders look good, very nice work. The drilling of the frames for tubes, cables etc. is just the job, keeps the motor / battery bay very tidy.


Excellent work David, your boat will turn out to be superb.


Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 16, 2020, 08:27:54 pm
Hi Mike


The props are from Simon at the Prop Shop, cast bronze in one piece, fine work indeed.


I'll pick up some mahogany rectangular section and see what I can do, I'll let you know how I get on.


And ' Superb' is what we all aim for I guess, and then we do our best...


David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 17, 2020, 04:34:18 pm
Rudder posts yesterday and today... Made them up from 7mm id brass tube and some custom brass fittings upper and lower. Lower has close fitting with shaft plus an 'O' ring to stop water coming up, upper has bronze bush to keep everything lined up plus a seal.  No water will be getting in that way...  Lower has a narrow section to pass through the hull with a flange to fix to hull with epoxy.  Posts still need to be cut to length when hull is a little further on.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/17/20200117a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/17/20200117b.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/17/20200117c.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/17/20200117d.jpg)


Also set up a rig to test where the servo and arms need to be in the hull.  Amati show the servo installed offset to the port side controlling port rudder which is then linked to the starboard rudder with a cross bar.  I'd like to mount the servo along the centre line to give more tuning options.  This will allow keeping the rudders syncronised and parallel with all the arms set at 90į (so same as Amati and same as full size Aquarama I think), or to test with offset rudder arms to give an asymmetric throw. Theory being that the inside rudder should turn a little more than the outer during a turn as the outer side of the hull prescribes a larger circle during a turn than the inner. I see this as one of the options available to use to keep the Riva on an even keel during turns out on the water.
Keeping the rudder arms turned in as in the pic is neater, but arms will need trimming to avoid the transom woodwork.  If this isn't viable they can face out.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/17/20200117e.jpg)


Would be interested if anyone reading this has tried / tested / used this asymmetric throw approach with any effect.


David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Capt Podge on January 17, 2020, 04:56:13 pm
I've never tried using a test rig for rudders but your latest update has sown the seed for any / all future projects.
Looking forward to seeing your results...  :-)) .


Regards,
Ray.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: RST on January 17, 2020, 09:55:34 pm
I've tried the assymetric rudder throws before just for giggles. Isn't why hacnkey cabs claim to turn so tight? Can't say I noticed much difference to be honest but the theory is sound, or not worth bothering depending which way you think about it.  I find it more intriguing why the "standard" raboesh tiller arm is assymetric rather than aligned with the rudder stock like servo horns are.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 20, 2020, 05:08:39 pm
Afternoon All


My Aquarama project came about partly because I'd like a building challenge, and partly because I'd like a scale boat to pull a scale waterskier.


Current waterskier is the 'Pink Panther', he started out like as part of a Happy Meal, my children are now in their 20's so he's been around the lake a few times...  Plan is to use experience gained with him to develop something a little more fitting for the Riva, maybe a 1/10th Ms Bardot.


Here he is braving some frigid water being pulled by an old Kyosho Majestic that I have:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/20/20200120c.jpg)


If you'd like to see the short video: [size=78%]https://youtu.be/klgUejovf_k (https://youtu.be/klgUejovf_k)[/size]


(Apologies in advance for the music...  It's part of the GoPro App...  Best to turn it down a bit...)


Anyway, back to the reason for this post, I'm not finding much detail online about the Ski Pole mount on the Aquarama. I wondered whether anyone reading has any additional pictures or plans that show it in place in a little more detail..?


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/20/20200120a.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 21, 2020, 01:07:10 pm
Playing again with the rudders and RC Setup on the rig to test that I can achieve what I'm hoping for.


The Amati Aquarama has a tendency to bank heavily in turns. I'm looking at ways to counter this. The RC setup gives asymmetric rudder throws and adds in independent motor speed control to add turning force independently of the rudders. The setup also allows motor only turning.  Importantly all the functions variable once built in and are reversible if it doesn't work...

Have to give credit to others online for tips on how to do this, use of the V-Tail function and also the change to Mode 1 on the transmitter.



(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/21/RCSetup600.jpg)


There's a video of the functionality here: [size=78%]https://youtu.be/wmmUGpZXJyA (https://youtu.be/wmmUGpZXJyA)[/size]


[/size][size=78%]Apologies if this is old news...  Its new to me...  [/size] :-)


Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Davo on January 21, 2020, 05:38:32 pm
The integral spray rails are a good idea.  I did this on a Sea Nymph simply by over-running the side skin below the bottom skin, then profiling with body filler.  This avoids adding a difficult thin strip of ply.  I did as per your design some years ago (40!) by putting drafting tape externally over the gap and laying a fibreglass strip internally.
David
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: coch y bonddu on January 21, 2020, 09:25:25 pm
Just an observation but wouldn't the ACTion P94 combined mixer speed controller would surley do the same job as it speeds up and slows down motors on command of the rudder.This is purely and not a critisism of your thoughts but I personally don't think it will have any effect on the handling of the boat not one bit.


Reason for my thoughts it is an inherent hull design....just my thoughts


Dave
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on January 21, 2020, 10:03:12 pm
Dave.......post #3 indicates Brushless motors and controllers purchased for the build............... Derek
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: TomHugill on January 22, 2020, 10:41:54 am
Hey David,


I've had a quick scan of your thread and found it very interesting as this is something I went through with my 1:7 scale aquarama.


I was never very happy with how the smaller scale ones were so bow heavy at low speeds, had such a high bank angle and pushed up such a big wake when not on the plane (even if the real ones a bit guilty of this).


The way mine got round this was similar to what you proposed, a flat chine to stop spray and a slightly deeper v to help it get onto the plane easier.


https://youtu.be/Bm_7vzyg5zg

https://youtu.be/9MVdxpuU0K0

Theres a few more pictures here too

https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,49270.msg501059.html#msg501059

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 22, 2020, 03:21:08 pm
Afternoon All


Thanks for the comments.


@Dave, you could well be right that these tweaks make no difference at all...  I agree that at this scale the hull has inherent issues.  And the P94 does indeed seem to have similar capabilities (for brushed motors). I think if those capabilities can be replicated in the existing RC hardware, that's useful for testing the option. Also a saving of £80.00.... What I'm trying to build in are some 'variables' that I can adjust once the boat is on the water to see if they have any beneficial effect.  If they don't...  Then I'll owe you a beer... ok2


@Tom, yes, looks like we agree on the chine mod issue.  The full size boat had so much weight toward the stern, basically over the flat planing section of the hull. Two big V8s and then looks to me like the fuel tanks were against the transom.  I think there are three options:


1. Plank the hull as normal, then add a shaped triangular section along the chines to flatten them. (As UKMike has done with success with the Aquarama hull)
2. Cut the frames to provide flat chines and a deeper 'Vee', then plank.
3. Add some triangular fillets to the chine area of the mid section frames, then plank the revised shape...


Still mulling those options over.


Agreed again re putting the bow on a diet to keep the weight down.


Thanks for the links to your 1:7 scale, beautiful looking boat, the video's show it riding perfectly.  If I can get close to that when on the water I'll be very pleased.  Working at 1:10 scale makes me yearn for a bit more space in the hull...


@ David, perfect example of the flat / reversed chine mod working very well and encouraging for my build, thanks for that.


Made the mods today for the rudder servo to be moved to the centreline. Had to remove some of the keel to do this but have made the mount strong enough to add some strength back. I hope...


Also took off the original rudder servo mount supports to free up some space on the port side:


So this is as per the kit...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/22/20200121a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/22/20200121b.jpg)


And this is after my saw...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/22/20200121d.jpg)


And then the vandalism to the keel and the servo in place...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/22/20200121e.jpg)


Next step will be to get the transom fixed in place, the structure for the rudders and then get the rudder posts trimmed to fit and in.


Another question...  My thoughts have been to keep heavy items (like lipos) as low as possible.  But, if they were higher would that go some way to counter the tendency for the hull to dig in / bank when in a turn...? Their mass being thrown in the opposite direction.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: SailorGreg on January 22, 2020, 05:30:34 pm

Another question...  My thoughts have been to keep heavy items (like lipos) as low as possible.  But, if they were higher would that go some way to counter the tendency for the hull to dig in / bank when in a turn...? Their mass being thrown in the opposite direction.


If I were you I would keep them low.  A high centre of gravity will make the hull more tender and prone to heeling/rolling, so I doubt it would fix the potential handling problems.  Having seen videos of other Riva models, I suspect a lot of the turning issues are due to turning at full power.  You might have to learn to throttle back a bit as you go into a turn.

I'm enjoying your build - thanks!

Greg
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 27, 2020, 03:39:06 pm
Hi Greg


I tend to agree with you, I think using the lipo mass is one of those options to keep in the bag when it comes to [/size]evaluating the boats characteristics on the water and getting the trim right.  And agreed re speed of turns.  I'm just wanting decent handling at scale speeds. Pleased to hear you're enjoying the build log.
[/size]
[/size]In other news... Real world has got in the way of much on the build for past few days, I have made up the docking lights:
[/size]
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/27/20200127b-Custom.jpg)


Amati fittings drilled to take warm white 3mm LEDs. (I prefer the yellow light to the harsh blue tint of the true 'white' LEDs.) Foil is from Aunt Bessies Yorkshire Pudding cases, just the right thickness, wife thought I'd lost it when I dug them out of the bin...


Some parts have arrived in the post...  I now have a small (24x45mm) and lightweight 3 to 5v brushless water pump (100 to 200mA), I'l like to check whether it will serve to get water around the ESCs and motor mounts, and in particular I'd like to get water coming out of the exhausts while the boat is stationary, like the real Aquarama at idle.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/27/20200127d-Custom.jpg)


I also found these Buck Converters on Amazon to step down the Lipo voltage:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/27/20200127e-Custom.jpg)


22x17mm, input 4.5 to 28V, steps down from 0.8 to 20V.


I'm thinking to maybe use the balance lead connector via a switch with one of the above Buck Converters, or possibly the BEC output from the second ESC, need to investigate that as an option, then use an RC AUX switch for RC use.


Also been working on the motor mounts, but not a lot to show at the moment.


I'm slowing the hull build while these parts are evaluated / built to see if any hull mods are needed to accommodate.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on January 27, 2020, 05:54:09 pm
David.


A safe idea for an aux. power source is on my Biggish Aquarama thread, may help.


Don't forget to keep an eye on the weight of your boat.


Mike.


Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 30, 2020, 04:32:53 pm
Hi Mike


Thanks for that, I've been following your larger Aquarama build closely, looking good..!


I'll be adding the inline fuses for any auxiliary power use for sure. I'm thinking that you're adding the diodes as a precaution / protection, as you're sharing the Lipos for auxiliary power supply, is that right..?  If so I'm only planning to run the auxiliary power requirements off the lipo that's not providing power the the receiver.  Talking about weight, I'm looking at 2 x 4,000mAh Lipos at 310g each, do you think they're about right or too heavy..?  What lipos did you end up using in your Amati build..?


The build continues, transom is now on and some of the subframes being put together. With the transom bonded in I'll be looking at betting the rudder frames and posts in soon.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/30/20200130a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/30/20200130b.jpg)


A lot of dry fit at the moment to gauge how much space there will be to play with.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/30/20200130d.jpg)


Here's my first pass at a mod to the frames to provide a flat chine in the mid section of the hull to promote lift / planing and throw water clear.  My plan is to get to the planking stage and see whether the new shape can be planked well, or if it introduces to many headaches, if it does, they'll be planed off and back to the triangular section add ons.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/01/30/20200130e.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on January 30, 2020, 04:56:10 pm
Hi David.


I added the blocking diodes so that should one of the batteries loose some, or all, of it's voltage for any reason it would not be possible for the good battery to attempt to charge the faulty one. You won't need them if your batteries are independent.


I finished up using 3 cell batteries for my boat, 2500mah. The boat was much too fast, but given that I have little interest in sailing them,  I soon sold it.


Thinking about your intended transmission idea, I would  go with 3 cells.


Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 30, 2020, 05:24:15 pm
Hi Mike


Thanks for fast reply. My initial choice of motors are smaller and less power hungry that your 540L's I think, so maybe I can go with 3,000mAh (rather than the 4,000mAh) that should still give good runtime and save on weight too. Gearing my motors down may keep it more of a scale speed, I hope. I've got the components together to make up the gearboxes / mounts, it's a case of whether I can get it all light enough to be useful.


And..  After all the work / time / effort / head scratching / ingenuity that you put into your boats, surely you must want to run them..!


David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on January 30, 2020, 06:21:37 pm
David.


If the boat funfills my requirement , i.e .


First and foremost, it should float, most important.


Secondly, it must be able to turn, ideally left as well of right.


Thirdly,  be able to go forward and backwards, although backwards isn't essential, but it  can prove to be handy.


If it meets all the above criteria, I then run it, (in the water), if all is well, without problems, it is then sold.


If there are a few problems, I fix them, pop it back into the water to confirm all is now well.


If all is well,  sell it and start a new project.


Mike. 😋





Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 14, 2020, 12:53:34 pm
Progress update...  I have a belt drive mount built and running:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/02/14/20200214a.jpg)


Weight is 117 grams with the motor, motor on its own is 74 grams, so mount is 43 grams. Machined from aluminium angle and bar, two ball races. Plan is to place a collar on the shaft so rear ball race takes forward thrust, shaft pulley will take reverse thrust against front bearing. Teflon washers used as required. Reduction is 3:2, distance between shaft centers is 30mm. As its an outrunner I'm cooling the mount which I hope will act as a heatsink for the motor...


Here's the rear view:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/02/14/20200214b.jpg)

And here's it all running:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/02/14/20200214d.jpg)


No vibration and runs quietly.  The shaft exits the mount just 12mm from the base of the mount so this should allow a shallow shaft angle compared to standard installation. Belt is an MXL timing belt with 45 teeth, it's rated up to 20,000rpm, I'm running at around 13,000rpm maximum.


Need to build another one now...  Should be a bit quicker as I've made up a few of the parts at same time as developing this one.  Then it'll be onto the P brackets and tubes.


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on February 14, 2020, 01:55:26 pm
David......looks very tidy  :-)) ...if you percieved any belt tension deflection, you could consider reversing both toothed pulleys so having the belt inby or closer to the bearings in the motor and frame


Derek
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 14, 2020, 03:06:41 pm
Hi Derek


Thanks for that and yes, sounds sensible.  The motor shaft is long enough to lock onto with the grub screw when reversed, and I haven't cut the main prop shaft for length yet.


Best regards
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 18, 2020, 11:17:53 am
Two new P brackets for the Riva:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/02/18/20200218a.jpg)


Solver soldered brass with teflon bushes:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/02/18/20200218c.jpg)


Some polishing required...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/02/18/20200218d.jpg)



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 24, 2020, 06:15:32 pm
Been looking at dry fitting the shafts to see what kind of base I need for the motors / mounts, and where they need to be.  Using two frames to keep the shafts the required 87mm apart, parallel and correct clearance at the prop end. Bit of work required on the standard frames to get the desired lower shaft angle:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/02/24/20200224b.jpg)


At the motor end the shaft is around 20mm from the line of the hull, I think this is 15mm (ish) lower than the standard install. And looking at the resulting shaft angle its a shade less than 8į, I think standard for this kit is 12į or more, so will be interesting to see the effect on the water...  Now I have the sizing details to measure for the shaft tubes.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/02/24/20200224a.jpg)


Final pic is checking the sizes of the Lipos and location in case mods are required at this stage of the build.  I'm happy with the amount of fore / aft flexibility of the mount position to be able to use the lipos mass to trim the boat come the glorious day... The Lipos are Turnigy 3,000mAh, 3S 15C Graphene packs, they come in at a reasonable 212g each:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/02/24/20200224c.jpg)


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 03, 2020, 10:18:26 am
Morning All


Been busy moving the hull construction on a shade, and working on some of the running hardware.


Rudder posts and shafts are now trimmed for length, ended up with two 'O' rings at the base of each post, a Teflon bush and seal at the top.  No oil tube planned, just a bit of light grease from time to time.  Also seen in this pic are the modified exhaust tubes, these will allow the coolant to roll out as per the full size Aquarama, I hope. I'm planning on building in an accessible 'stub' to the exhausts so that if space and weight (and ingenuity) allow I can add a misting unit.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/03/20200303a.jpg)


This shows the rudder arms in place and the centreline servo position, I think that cutout in the transom is to accommodate the standard rudder arm, so will be filling that in:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/03/20200303b.jpg)




Here's the stbd shaft in vague alignment and start of a motor mount. Also added a couple of horizontal 'planks' in the battery / RC space, I'm going to add some of the RC gear / ESCs to these with Velcro straps to keep them ventilated / higher and free up 'floor space', wiring where possible will run in the void created.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/03/20200303d.jpg)


View of that space from above:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/03/20200303c.jpg)


More woodwork fixed in toward the bow:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/03/20200303e.jpg)


I'm coming up to the point where I need to seal some of the interior woodwork before it becomes inaccessible. This build will see action on the water, so any opinions re using thinned varnish or finishing Z Poxy resin..?  I think the varnish would be thinner / lighter, but the resin more waterproof / resilient.


Another question.  I'm using 35mm diameter Outrunners, so the case rotates and has fixing points on the rotating case... Has anyone tried adding fan blades directly, say from a 30 / 40mm PC fan to the Outrunner case to assist airflow/ cooling..? It should be possible to mount the fan case too, to duct the airflow and prevent fingers being lost... The motor mounts will have water cooling, but these Outrunners are not really built to be watercooled. IMHO.


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 05, 2020, 03:09:36 pm
Some of the mods taking shape...


Bow going on a diet:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/05/20200305a.jpg)


Exhausts now have coolant and misting tubes installed:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/05/20200305b.jpg)


This is a great suggestion from UKMike, as used on his Aquaramas, using a grub screw to secure the prop to the shaft.  Looks so much better when using P brackets as it does away with the usual locking nut also more secure.

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/05/20200305d.jpg)

And here's a bit of testing with a fan on the end of the Outrunner, fits quite well...  This is a 40mm PC fan, generates a good airflow around and through the motor and the case will fit to the mount with a small bracket.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/05/20200305e.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/05/20200305f.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/05/20200305g.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/05/20200305i.jpg)


I'm going to build in the attachment points for this on the mount, then if it's needed it'll be available.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: tsenecal on March 05, 2020, 09:10:56 pm
Has anyone tried adding fan blades directly, say from a 30 / 40mm PC fan to the Outrunner case to assist airflow/ cooling..? It should be possible to mount the fan case too, to duct the airflow and prevent fingers being lost...

AXI has brushless outrunners with fans built in to their design... there is no reason not to attach them and see if they make a difference.  i presume you could remove them if the don't help.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 17, 2020, 05:52:51 pm
Afternoon All


Tried adding the fan case to the motor mount as per last post, but not enough space available so will try leaving the blades exposed.


Been working on building a misting unit based around one of the 20mm ultrasonic discs, not finished yet but here's some of the work to date.  Case and end caps made up from nylon bar, the input side if the disc will be fed with circulating water, so no need for a significant reservoir. Plan is to split the output and send mist to both exhausts.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/17/20200317b.jpg)


This is the unit being tested:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/17/20200317a.jpg)


And here's the main components 'dry fitted':


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/17/20200317c.jpg)


And just for UKMike...   :-))  Checking the weight, 22g.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/17/20200317d.jpg)


Will be testing next with circulating water to see if the unit can handle continuous running and will post the results.


Crazy days we live in, stay well everyone...
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 23, 2020, 10:29:50 am
Morning All


Looking like the 'virtual world' of the forum is about the only place still open...  Time to self isolate in the shed for a few months maybe...


So, a small update, two sets of motors / mounts / propshaft assemblies are now ready:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/23/20200323a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/23/20200323b.jpg)


Next I'll be adding some support in the hull for fixing the P brackets, and the motor mounts.


Any comments / thoughts / advice on the order to actually fix the hardware to the hull..?


a. Fix in now and plank around the hardware.
b. Plank first layer than fix in hardware.
c. Plank both layers then fix in...


On another matter, the water pump that I found on amazon is utter rubbish, leaks from everywhere and no pressure. I stripped it down to find a small nasty brushed motor (sold as brushless), and a load of ill fitting plastic parts, so its now in the bin. I've found some very nice micro pumps on the RS site ( [size=78%]https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/water-pumps/0480150/ (https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/water-pumps/0480150/)[/size] ) I think I'll have to bit the bullet and get one of them. Given the state of the planet right now, I'm working out the pitch to my wife as to why I 'need' a £50.00 water pump smaller than my thumb...


Stay well.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on March 23, 2020, 01:09:02 pm
Hi David.


That's a Micro Pumps product.


Have another look on their website, you may not need the 3rd nipple.


The M410 is probably best suited for your needs but you have to pay a lot more money.


The R.S. example may not have the output that you want, better more than enough output, then control it by voltage.


Also, neither of them are are self priming.


Just my thoughts.


Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 23, 2020, 02:17:46 pm
Hi Mike


Agreed that the 410 range is very nice...  but at a hefty price...  {:-{


The third nipple as I understand it can help with the priming issue.  So firstly I'm thinking keep the pump low in the hull, effectively below the waterline so there will be a tendency for the inlet to fill when at rest. Then if required put a line on the third nipple to allow air to be bled off, but that would be a bit tedious, I'd hope that's not required.


I have an account with RS, so easier to make the purchase via them, I think its a re badged TCS 200 series...  The RS version linked to does appear to have a similar static pressure to the 410, 330mbar to 380mbar, and has a flow rate of 650ml/m, and agreed the voltage can be used to tweak the output, seems it can run between 5 and 7v.


I think your 410 option would be best for a complete one stop solution. However I'm going to try the 200 and see how it goes, it's a third of the weight, there's a guy on here who keeps telling me to keep the weight down..  ok2  If there's an issue with flow I'll keep the pumped flow for the ESCs and misting, and add conventional pickups for the motors.  Maybe a 410 when I graduate to the larger Aquarama... :-))


Best regards and stay well...
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on March 23, 2020, 11:10:51 pm
David.....just a word of caution if you intend to use the vessel in brackish water


The TCS series pump is listed 616 S/S connections, but aluminium body, so even if this is internally anodised, internal corrosion could be an issue depending on the level of water salinity


A second consideration could be a mesh filter on the suction side [fuel element stainless mesh] as used on aero engines are a good thought


Using the largest bore size water tubing would also minimise pressure loss/drop, as the centrifugal pump output ~~330mB ...
[I had to do a mental calculation  :embarrassed: ......about 0.33 of 1 atmosphere = ~~4.7 PSI] :o


If you think of most applications for similar type/size pumps [motor vehicle water washers], each have flooded suction.......[so hence the 3rd port on the RS 200 pump]...but this would be for priming only as I doubt the rotor of the pump could create a vacuum sufficient to draw the initial slug of water


Just a final consideration is the question of running the pump flow in parallel or singular flow path between both motors?


[the latter is discharge from motor 1 = suction to motor 2......this is critical as the fluid in a parallel flow will result in virtually all fluid taking the easiest path of pressure resistance with all flow going to one motor  :-X


Derek
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 24, 2020, 11:34:55 am
Hi Derek


Some interesting comments there, thanks..!


No plans for the boat to see salt / brackish water, so that shouldn't be an issue.


Pressure calculations are enlightening, the spec sheet mentions a 1.9m 'head', I thought that would be a useful pressure to be working with, that's about as far as I'd got.  Agreed re largest bore pipes throughout to get best flow.


Hadn't thought about debris filter...  Biggest issues I've had where I operate are with leaves, I had thought that with a flush inlet these should be avoided, I guess an inline mesh filter would make sense for smaller debris...


I hadn't heard the term 'flooded suction', I'm guessing this is what would happen when the inlet / pipework / pump are below the waterline and no 'air lock' in between, with an essentially open outlet side and centrifugal pump the tendency would be for the pump to fill.


I hadn't considered the flow not being even, but of course you're correct. My thought has been to split the cooling circuit into two after the pump, for the port / stbd motors / ESCs, then feed the outlets to the port / stbd exhausts.  I guess I'll see by eye whether the flow is equal.  If required I can add a restriction (clamp) to the max flow side.


I think I'll test the whole cooling circuit in an existing (old) model, that would highlight any issues before building problems into the Aquarama.


After UKMikes comments about the limited capabilities of the smaller pump (which I agree with) I was thinking of looking at a hybrid solution to reduce the demands / reliance on the pump, just a case of plumbing really.  At the end of the day I'd like a realistic flow of water through the exhausts when at rest / low speed, so I'd thought I would need a pump when there's no / low flow past a water pickup.


I could build in conventional water pickups in the propwash, then take a feed from this pickup to the pump... Use the pumped water for the ESCs / electronics, then rejoin the outlet side to the main water circuit at (or just before) the exhausts.  I'm thinking this would offer some advantages:


1. I can get away with a lighter / smaller pump.
2. A quick blip of propwash would help prime the pump.
3. Once primed, the pump would cool the ESCs / electronics full time and give realistic exhaust flow.
4. As propwash increases the flow would get to the motors via a dedicated circuit.
5. I think the pressure increase on the inlet side when at speed would be (almost but not quite) matched by the back pressure at the exhaust outlet, so the pump would not get into a 'race' condition.
6. The electronics get full time cooling.


Hope the above makes sense.
Thanks again for your comments.
Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: NickelBelter on March 24, 2020, 04:45:41 pm
Can you share your source for the timing pulleys and small belt?  I have a problem with very low-set shafts in a model and I'd like to use a belt drive to avoid lots of grinding away the frames to line up a normal dogbone connector. 
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 24, 2020, 05:02:39 pm
Hi NB


Sure, I use: [size=78%]https://www.motionco.co.uk/ (https://www.motionco.co.uk/)[/size]


The belts are MXL size: [/size][size=78%]https://www.motionco.co.uk/timing-belts-timing-belts-c-25_38_27.html (https://www.motionco.co.uk/timing-belts-timing-belts-c-25_38_27.html)[/size]


The pulleys are here: [/size][size=78%]https://www.motionco.co.uk/timing-pulleys-timing-pulleys-aluminium-c-25_35_48.html (https://www.motionco.co.uk/timing-pulleys-timing-pulleys-aluminium-c-25_35_48.html)[/size]


And they have a really helpful centre distance calculator for whatever pulley combination you choose.


I also use their pillow block bearings and accessories such as locking collars and shafts.  Looks like they're happy to ship overseas, but I don't know if they're operational right now with the lockdown that we have in operation here...


Hope that helps.
Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: NickelBelter on March 24, 2020, 06:28:37 pm
Thanks, that's VERY helpful, especially since I am restricted in the diameter of the shaft pulley.  No need to get them in a hurry, usually takes about 3 weeks for something to arrive here from a UK seller.   :-))   I'm assuming it's easy to ream the hubs out from 3 to 4mm if they don't have the right size pulley in a 4mm bore.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 24, 2020, 07:39:09 pm
Pleased to assist. Should be no problem to bore out to 4mm. What are you building that needs the shallow angle..?
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: NickelBelter on March 25, 2020, 05:46:19 am
A destroyer, and I didn't think ahead to cut away the frames ahead of where the shafts enter the hull, and I'd rather not have to grind U-shapes into them now if I can help it.  Had to do that once with a rotary file and it was nerve-wracking.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 30, 2020, 05:47:57 pm
Afternoon All


Still busy getting hardware prepared for the Aquarama hull.


I ordered a small compass from ebay back in January, I thought it had disappeared in the mail system but it showed up last week, 12mm diameter, hoping that's about right for the Aquarama dash.  Now I've just got to try not to lose it:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/30/20200330a.jpg)


Dry fitting the shafts to get them lined up through the frames, setting up water pickups.  I had to install an area of ply to be able to mount / reinforce the P brackets and water pickups. Shaft angle coming out at 8į:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/30/20200330b.jpg)


Rudders will need trimming to allow correct rotation when finally installed.  Rudders are in the Amati approved position (for RC), props are set slightly further forward.


And about the water pump...  Having binned the Amazon cheap version in disgust, the new M200 arrived from RS, very impressed with the build quality, and its only 14 grams..!


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/30/20200330c.jpg)


Initial testing, very easy to prime, very quiet, no leaks from the body. I think a carefully run feed from a pickup that avoids airlocks and mounting the pump low in the hull will work just fine.  In case of issues the smaller third nipple allows a bleed pipe to be attached, so just clamping / opening this tube will help with any airlocks on the inlet side.  The voltage range is 5 to 7V, I tested at 6V and am happy with the flow and pressure:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/03/30/20200330d.jpg)


Should have time for more progress this week.


Hope everyone's keeping well.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 31, 2020, 05:36:03 am
 
Just looked that pump up.... that is not a cheap item!   :o

.... Still, you get what you pay for...does that still apply these days?  {:-{

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/water-pumps/0480150/
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 31, 2020, 08:28:10 am
Morning Martin


I think some of the stuff found on Amazon and ebay can be real gems. But usually not when looking for precision engineering. I really did try to get a £5.00 pump to do the job, but it was nowhere close. I stripped it to try to adapt the parts and improve it, no joy. I then considered a DIY pump built around a brushless pc fan motor, but as UKMike would say; 'Keep an eye on the weight...'. Then I realised it also had to be pretty much buried in the hull. Not easy for maintenance or access. I had a good look around but kept coming back to the M200 range.


I'll update its performance as the build progresse . But very pleased so far, even given the cost...


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 02, 2020, 10:51:40 am
Morning All...


Still busy preparing / fabricating parts while I have good all round access, before planking.  Everything in the following pics is still dry fit and work in progress.


The new water pump now has a home, aim here is to keep the pump inlet low in the hull to facilitate self priming, without creating an air lock:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/02/20200402a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/02/20200402b.jpg)


Port water scoop has a take off pipe that will feed the pump:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/02/20200402c.jpg)


Feed from that take off pipe then comes through to the pump via the aluminium tube seen below, the pump outlet is then connected to the brass T piece to provide a flow to port and stbd.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/02/20200402d.jpg)


Here's a few images of the general installation of components, working out what can go where, what the plumbing / cabling needs to look like:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/02/20200402e.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/02/20200402f.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/02/20200402g.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/02/20200402h.jpg)


I'm thinking of mounting the Rx and additional small electronic bits just forward of the batteries, still pondering that.


I'm struggling to find room in this hull for the misting unit...  Still pondering that too.


The all up weight is currently 2kg, once shafts, rudders and all you see above are put on the scales. I think that puts final weight at 2.5 / 3.0 kg....  And I'm a bit concerned about that.  Anyone reading this and has the same boat..? I'd love to hear what the weight ended up at.


Hope everyone is well.
Best regards
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 02, 2020, 11:17:37 am
 
How noisy is the pump?
Is it worth isolating it from the frame somehow?
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 02, 2020, 11:25:31 am
Hi Martin


It's pretty quiet on its own, but I'll see if it makes the hull resonate. I could use a grommet to keep it isolated, good idea...  :-)) 


(At the price, maybe it can play a tune....[size=78%] )[/size]


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on April 02, 2020, 12:51:58 pm
Very tidy & low installation there David :-)) .........& the flow would probably embarrass a few members here


Martin.... "25dba" is as quiet as a Church mouse  {-) ......


Resultant noise really depends on a multitude of factors..sometimes rigidity plays a more effective role in resonant sound damping than attempts in isolation   <*<


Derek
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 02, 2020, 03:17:39 pm
Hi Derek


Well we're all getting used to isolation these days...  :((


The pump is indeed quiet, a low hum is about it.  I'm going to test the plumbing before too long to validate it all before building in. I can get a temporary feed tank to a similar water level as the boat will be when afloat, then just connect to the water pickup with some tubing and I can see if the pressure primes the pump.  And if it is, whether it can then circulate as required and exit the exhausts as intended... Ideally I'll be able to drop the voltage so the pump is running under capacity.  I'll post the results.  :-))


Best regards
David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on April 02, 2020, 09:34:14 pm
..... >>:-( sorry...the time limit precluded me finding the specification page  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 14, 2020, 10:12:24 am
Morning All


Hope everyone had a good (if socially distanced...) Easter.


Wife has discovered online bridge, more time for building..!  :-))


Back to the Amati instruction book for a couple of days, adding some of the forward and cockpit woodwork. I want to backlight the dash instruments and add a couple of coloured LEDs in the appropriate dash lights, so have modified the frame that sits forward of the dash panel to move it forward. I don't think this will cause issues later in the build... I've cut additional notches slightly forward in the three dash bearers to give more room for wiring:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/14/20200414a.jpg)


Here it is in the original position:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/14/20200414b.jpg)


And moved forward:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/14/20200414c.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 15, 2020, 03:45:24 pm
Dashboard well on its way...


White nylon bar cut to 3mm (same as dash ply) drilled back side 1.8mm to take the LEDs, inserted in the positions for the dials and filed flush:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/15/20200415a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/15/20200415b.jpg)


LEDs fitted:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/15/20200415c.jpg)


And power applied...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/15/20200415g.jpg)


 :-))


When the dials are in place the light output goes down a notch.


Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 22, 2020, 04:36:18 pm
Afternoon All


Tested the new pump and it does prime and do as intended i.e. supply water to the exhausts when boat is stationary, pleased and a little relieved with that.  It does however resonate (as you said it might Martin... ) so have isolated it and its 3mm bolt from the hull, great improvement:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/22/20200422a.jpg)


Some more work in progress, been busy modifying the nav light cluster that sits on the fore deck and the windscreen mounted searchlight to accept LEDs.  Amati haven't made it easy as they're very solid cast lumps...  And so heavy...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/22/20200422b.jpg)


So, the nav light cluster gets some attention from a drill to make a chamber for a white LED to eventually backlight the red / green elements:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/22/20200422c.jpg)


And a saw / file / dremel takes out the cast 'lens', I have a set of cheap nav lights due so I can take out the coloured lens quadrants and trim to fit the Amati casting:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/22/20200422e.jpg)


Masthead light then gets drilled to take a 1.8mm warm white LED insulated +ve wire, the -ve is the whole casting.  Just wired for testing at the moment, the final +ve to the mast light will be a thin white wire that will act as the 'Riva' pennant cord running up the back of the 'mast':


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/22/20200422f.jpg)


I'm thinking to just use some clear resin to fill the masthead light with the LED buried in place, then file it to the final shape.


Spotlight drilled out:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/22/20200422g.jpg)


And tested, the +ve exits the casting close to the attachment point on the 'underside' of the spotlight:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/22/20200422h.jpg)


The new 'lens' for the spotlight is actually the clear plastic dome part from the kit that's intended to be the top of the compass...  I'm using a real compass, the it's a spare part and ideal size.  :-))


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on April 22, 2020, 07:34:33 pm
Thats a really nice solution - I think your very brave too cutting into such nice fittings  O0
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 22, 2020, 08:06:20 pm
Hi Mark


Thanks for this. My Plan B is to get replacement fittings from CAP Marquettes if the mods don't go well. I think its a beautiful boat and a good kit, just trying to get the most out of the build experience, and to make the best of it that I can. As we all do..!


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 30, 2020, 04:10:27 pm
Afternoon All


An update on the Aquarama nav lights, pretty much finished now:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/30/20200430a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/30/20200430b.jpg)


The underside of the unit has also been tapped for a 3mm thread to hold it in place on the forward deck. (I'd rather not glue it in case it needs attention once fitted.)  'Riva' pennant goes on the white cable.


On a more general note, this is what the build is looking like at the moment:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/30/20200430c.jpg)


I'm working to get all the components and systems ready to install before moving on to the planking.


And from the bow:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/30/20200430d.jpg)


Dash panel is sitting in place nicely (not fixed in place yet), here's a tighter view of the motors:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/30/20200430e.jpg)


This is the current state of the misting unit, it works, but not yet happy with the plumbing:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/30/20200430f.jpg)


And the P brackets are trimmed to fit now, looking the part. I have a pair of brass plates cut ready to attach to the top of the skegs to spread the load into the hull:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/30/20200430g.jpg)


Best regards to all
David.


Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on April 30, 2020, 04:51:09 pm
Looks like its coming along very nicely.  The lights worked out pretty good too; they are nice and bright which you need otherwise no-one can see them on the lake
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 11, 2020, 11:51:47 am
Morning All


So this update is more about whats being taken off the build more than whats going on...


Aim is to get as much weight off the forward part of the hull structure as is reasonable without compromising strength:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/11/20200511d.jpg)


A bit of excess keel and stern gone...  Also the base of the sunbed has been lightened, the Amati supplied sunbed is going in the bin. The wifes sewing machine will be dusted off...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/11/20200511e.jpg)


Weight reduction...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/11/20200511f.jpg)


Have started to profile the bow woodwork ready for planking:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/11/20200511a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/11/20200511b.jpg)


A little more shaping required, but nice to the the classic Aquarama flared bow lines coming through.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/11/20200511c.jpg)


Also shaping at the stern:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/11/20200511g.jpg)


That's about it for today...
Best regards to all.
David.







Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 14, 2020, 11:03:11 am
Morning All


More progress to report, I've added a flat platform forward of the LiPo space, this is for various electronics to be mounted. This is aft of the motors, they have fans attached so I'm thinking they will help run an airflow over the electronics:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/14/20200514e.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/14/20200514g.jpg)


And here it is in context:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/14/20200514f2.jpg)


I've started a sealing coat of thinned z-poxy to the frames / keel before planking starts:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/14/20200514h.jpg)


Finally a note to say the development for the Skier for the Aquarama is taking place on this thread: [size=78%]https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,64973.0.html (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,64973.0.html)[/size]


Best regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Capt Podge on May 14, 2020, 11:09:36 am
Hi David, what do you use to thin the z-poxy and does it have to be a specific ratio?


Regards,
Ray.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 14, 2020, 11:24:54 am
Hi Ray


I'm using Isopropyl 91% Alcohol, I get it from Amazon, 500ml bottles from a company called 'Lucemill'.  It's about £14 per bottle, I think the price has gone up recently as its used in hand sanitizer...


I'm mixing up 5ml of z-poxy finishing resin (2.5ml from each bottle), using a syringe to add 1.5ml of alcohol and mixing for 1m, that seems to brush on easily and penetrates well, it also goes a surprisingly long way so is not adding too much weight. It also doesn't seem to effect curing time too much, I aim to use the mix within 20 mins, and its touch dry in an hour. I don't sand it til next day, it then seems 100% cured.  I'm not sure if that ratio is considered optimal, but it works for me.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Capt Podge on May 14, 2020, 12:45:37 pm
That's such a comprehensive answer - I could not have asked for more - thank you very much indeed.  :-))


Regards,
Ray.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on May 14, 2020, 04:12:20 pm
Thats a lovely clean build you've got there very nice  :-))   Your right about the price of IPA - I bought 5 litres just before the Covid problem for £20 delivered.  The price has rocketed!
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 20, 2020, 09:44:17 am
Morning All


Not been idle...  The build now has a sealing coat of thinned two part epoxy:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/20/20200520a.jpg)


And is coming in at 924 grams.  I've used 1/3 of a pack of Z-Poxy finishing epoxy, that's just under 40 grams of epoxy. Given the boat has a tendency to be wet on the inside as well as the outside, I think it's worth the weight and effort.


And to reinforce how we it can get, a tip from UKMike (now on his second Aquarama) was to drill a hole in the forward cabin footwell as it could hold water.  So here we go, hole drilled, pipe added and will divert any water to somewhere else in the boat that can be seen, and extracted...  {:-{


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/18/20200518h.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/18/20200518i.jpg)


And finally, a whinge...   Just a small one.  A first world problem in the grand scheme of things...


"...Dear Amati, it would be nice on a kit like this if you could cut the wood so that when it goes together the grain is going the right way...  Thanks..."


In this pic, three panels in the cabin, two vertical grain, one horizontal in the middle.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/18/20200518e.jpg)


Whinge over.  :-))


Plan is now to check the shaping around the bow, sand as required and get ready for the first layer of planking.  I'm hoping to lay a few planks working out from the keel, then keep up with the thinned epoxy sealing inside as planking progresses.  Also to spend a bit of time working out the revised chine and how that's going to work out in terms of planking...


Best regards to all.
David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 28, 2020, 04:15:28 pm
Afternoon All


So the planking has been started.  This will go one of two ways...  I've not done it before.  Plan is to take it slow, measure twice and cut once...  :-))


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/28/20200528b.jpg)


Following recommendations on another thread I now have three 1/10 scale figures for the boat, a driver, passenger and skier...  They're from Germany and built for boats (driver and passenger are seated), look cast to me and about 20 Euros each, not a lot of choice out there at 1/10 scale it seems to me.


https://dsd-uhlig.de/Figuren/M-1-10 (https://dsd-uhlig.de/Figuren/M-1-10)


Here's the captain:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/28/20200528a.jpg)


At 62g that not too bad and lighter than most of the action figures available elsewhere.  I did look at 3D printed figures, but the costs are pretty high, going to try these first.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 29, 2020, 05:07:37 pm
Afternoon All


A little progress with the planking:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/29/20200529a.jpg)


I saw on another thread the use of bulldog clips to hold the planks against the frames rather than pins, I'm trying that approach along with the usual clamps and elastic bands.


And I have a new best friend:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/29/20200529b.jpg)


Beautifully engineered. The Veritas Miniature low angle Block Plane... So if the planking's a disaster, I can't blame the tools...  %)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/05/29/20200529c.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on May 29, 2020, 05:54:13 pm
Hi David

I bought one of those some time ago but only recently used it for shaping some bow formers. Just the job and as you say beautifully engineered. I bought a set of the chisels as well and was surprised at how small they are! They have been useful as well for notching etc.

Chris   
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 30, 2020, 12:35:53 am
 
Now that's a thing!   :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 03, 2020, 11:04:54 am
Morning All


Planking adventure continues...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/03/20200603f.jpg)


So far so good, ish... Bow is challenging, for me anyway. Main thing (I think) is that planks are going on flat and true to the frames.  I did sand the frames so they offer a flat surface to the planks for better bonding. A couple of small fillets required at the bow.  As this is first layer of two I think the main issue to get the final shape right for the mahogany layer.  But I suspect this is the easy bit. A couple of more planks and will then have to deal with the revised chines.  O0


I've test fitted the prop shafts to check where they emerge and where the planks will be cut, luckily its just one plank and between two frames:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/03/20200603i.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/03/20200603g.jpg)


By the way, the props are ending up about 11cm from the transom, the plans only show the static model prop position as far as I can see, and that's about 5cm, presumably the scale position... There was some logic / experience when building / racing multi boats that with the prop further away from the transom, and so from the rudder, handling at speed was improved in a couple of ways.  (I think... Neck out time...  :-) [size=78%] )[/size]


1. More lift is generated at speed. A combination of factors. The down thrust component of the prop(s) tending to push the hull up. If this thrust is a little forward of normal, its closer to the boats fore/aft balance point when planing, so rather than this thrust just 'lifting the stern', its helping to lift the boat.  A second factor is that the propwash comes off the prop in a spiraling cone, so the vertical component of this energy can either be seen (at worst) as a 'rooster tail' like effect behind the boat if the prop is close to the stern or with the prop further forward this energy pushes against the hull and is used to lift the stern. IMHO.


2. Better directional stability.  When planing there are three components that have a grip on the water (for clarity I'm taking the prop and P bracket as one component as they're very close). The 'V' of the hull (more pronounced at the bow) then the prop(s) and rudder(s) at the stern.  As the hull rises onto the plane the grip on the water of the 'V' is lost to a degree as its out of the water. So that leaves the prop(s) and rudder(s).  If they're close together longitudinally they just grip as one point which is a bit unstable, separated out they grip as two points, more stable.


That's my reasoning for doing it.  And as always, it might just be total garbage.  %%


Best regards to all.
David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 06, 2020, 04:04:59 pm
Afternoon All


Planking continues...  Still.


Starting to generate the shape of the new chines, just becoming visible at the bow:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/06/20200606b.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/06/20200606a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/06/20200606c.jpg)


Shaping of the next few planks will decide whether the revised chine will be viable.  :-))


Good weekend to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on June 06, 2020, 05:02:06 pm
Looking good so far David.

What timber and size are you using for the planks? I've got a future build that's plank on frame.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on June 06, 2020, 06:24:50 pm
Hi David.


You have been busy  :-)) .


Looks a good job so far, interested to see the revised chine.


Just shows what can be done with a microscopic block plane  {-)


Mike
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 07, 2020, 10:43:19 am
Hi Chris


The planks are 7x1.5mm, and I think are limewood. They're part of the Amati kit, it doesn't say limewood but I think I read that somewhere. Maybe Mike knows..?  The next layer is 8x1.5mm Mahogany, I'm assuming this is standard practice to avoid joints lining up too often.


And Mike, that little plane has indeed seen plenty of action so far. Its a pleasure to use.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on June 07, 2020, 12:00:19 pm
David, Chris.


It is indeed Limewood and European at that.


Unfortunately, Bass is often sold as Lime but that's because the Americans often call Bass as Lime.


There is no comparison to the two, European Limewood is far superior to Bass in every possible way.


BTW, on a different note, have found some incredible wood filler, very smooth, many colours and ridiculously easy to sand, maybe you've already heard of it.


It's called OSMO from Germany, via this company here in England...  www.wood-finishes-direct.com/ (http://www.wood-finishes-direct.com/)  not at all expensive.


I try to avoid the need to resort to fillers and use them as a last resort, but this stuff is so good, I now spend my time looking for something to fill  ok2 ok2  Not


Mike.


Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 07, 2020, 12:51:08 pm
Hi Mike


Well the limewood does seem to behave well for me. Flexible and easy to work with. Looks to sand well too.


Good timing with the filler recommendation, I've been using a very light balsa filler for general use where it won't be seen, but its no use for the next stages. Just ordered some of the OSMO mahogany and will let you know how I get on.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on June 07, 2020, 01:03:37 pm
David and Mike

Thanks for the info.

I shall get some of that filler as well. Most are either too hard or too soft and with the former you can end up sanding too much of the surrounding material. Having that problem at the moment with DIY and Polyfilla where I'm filling some defects in the plaster. Sand it down and then have to do more filling!

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 10, 2020, 04:28:03 pm
Afternoon All


In the midst of forming the revised chine profile. My approach has been to alter the profile of the frames at the chine using wedges, then plank. Aim is to get a smooth modified hull form with flat chines in the mid section that will keep the boat drier and generate lift. (Sorry Carlo...  :embarrassed: [size=78%]  )[/size]


I took off the wedges from my original attempt, I wasn't happy that they were balanced.  New set are cut from plank material, so quite modest in angle, also shaped then cut into two for port and starboard so I know they're identical.  I'm then using from 1 to 3 of these wedges depending on the frame (fore/aft )position, it helps to be able to see the new 'curve' by eye before bonding / planking.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/10/20200610a.jpg)


This next picture shows the original chine line, now with a variable gap to the planing surface due to the wedges.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/10/20200610b.jpg)


And here is the side planking being extended, and final planing surface planks being clamped.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/10/20200610d.jpg)


And here trimmed:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/10/20200610e.jpg)


And the profile that I'm hoping will throw water clear rather than inducing it up the hull:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/10/20200610g.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/10/20200610h.jpg)


Hope Carlo would have approved... 


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 11, 2020, 09:01:20 am
Morning All


Hard to show the chine mod without a direct comparison to the original shape.  This illustrates the mod, diagonal red lines are original V of the hull, those lines would have carried on to the chine in a 'by the plan' build of the original hull shape.  Red areas / lines to left and right illustrate the modified / flattened chines. Generally more lift along the length of the hull, significantly more lift in the mid / forward section:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/11/chine.jpg)


So hull profile / chine modified with no triangular section wood added over the planking.


Hope that's clearer.


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on June 11, 2020, 11:38:57 am
Neat modification David.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 16, 2020, 01:10:37 pm
Afternoon All


Decided to get the prop and rudder hardware cutouts in place through the sub planking:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/16/20200616a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/16/20200616b.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/16/20200616c.jpg)


And this one shows the hardware in context with the hull:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/16/20200616d.jpg)


And here's the interior:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/16/20200616e.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/16/20200616f.jpg)


Happy with alignment.  :-))


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 19, 2020, 01:50:09 pm
Afternoon All


Some progress with planking, and drilled the hull for the water pickups:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/19/20200619a.jpg)


And the planking is making its way up the side of the hull, hard chine looking a bit more obvious now:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/19/20200619b.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/19/20200619c.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 23, 2020, 05:49:50 pm
Afternoon All


Progress continues with the first layer of planks up the sides of the hull, and now I know what a 'stealer' is...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/23/20200623a.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/23/20200623b.jpg)


The form of the Aquarama hull is really starting to take shape, and its a beautiful design.


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 26, 2020, 04:47:17 pm
Afternoon All


A milestone of sorts...  First time I've planked a boat, and first layer of the Aquarama hull is now in place:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/26/20200626a.jpg)


And roughly trimmed, but at least its looking more boat like...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/26/20200626b.jpg)


Now I can see a few small gaps that need filler, then the inside will be sealed, then the sanding starts.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/26/20200626c.jpg)


Can we still say 'nice stern' in these politically correct days..?


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/26/20200626d.jpg)


Great weekend everyone.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: SailorGreg on June 26, 2020, 05:52:43 pm
I just love a planked hull and yours is a delight.   :-))

Greg
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 26, 2020, 05:59:09 pm
Hey Greg


Thanks for that, hopefully this as rough as you're going to see it...


Gardening duty over the weekend, but roll on next week and the sanding.


David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on June 26, 2020, 06:19:34 pm
Great workmanship and photos  :-)  I've been advised that I should be building one
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on June 26, 2020, 07:53:30 pm
I wonder have you seen this ? been going over 2 yrs and still not finished  %%
https://www.youtube.com/c/BacktoHardware/videos
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 26, 2020, 10:48:45 pm
Hi Andy


Thanks for this, and yes I've seen the YouTube link, good job its time lapse..!  Some useful pointers, I don't speak Italian, but good to see the build progress.


I'm also going over UKMikes excellent build log of the Aquarama.


My approach has been to take the kit as a start point, and to take time to get it right. The instructions are best taken as 'guidelines'... I'm finding it challenging, but enjoying it for that reason.


Hope you decide to go with the build.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on June 26, 2020, 10:54:57 pm
Iím really interested thanks but Iím not clear on what it will cost.
The kit at CMB is £279 but then thereís an etched brass set and a fittings set. I donít think itís obvious what the kit comes with and thereís conflicting spec regarding length depending on what seller you look at
Amati site only gives a weight and no dimensions  {-)
Those videos are superb without the need for dialogue, easy to pause it where needed
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 27, 2020, 07:08:38 am
Morning Andy


Agreed it's a bit confusing. I need to be at my PC on Monday to get you full details. Basically the main kit is static, then you add the hardware kit to convert to RC. But I was not impressed with content of that kit, heavy motors and average quality shafts. So a lot of builders seem to use brushless and third party shafts. The kit comes with all deck fittings, so not sure why it's available as an extra kit... I'll upload pics of fittings on Monday. There are fittings upgrades available from 'Cap Marqettes' you can find them on CMB site.


I'll add up what it's cost me and revert Monday...
Have a good weekend.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on June 27, 2020, 08:33:26 am
Thank you David
Iím going to join CMB club for 5% off everything for a year. They are already cheapest on very many things and discount off the kit alone will more than cover the £10 membership. I should have done that before I bought the Boulogne Etaples and the sealed Raboesch prop shaft  %%
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 29, 2020, 05:12:31 pm
Hi Andy


Been considering the build cost of the Aquarama.


So as you say the kit from CMB is around £280.00.


Then its either the running gear in their extra hardware kit at £150.00, or sourcing / building better parts.


There is a set here for the Riva by Krick at around £200.00 that's interesting, but I don't like the rudders...


https://www.krickshop.de/Accessories-Spare-Parts/Accessories-for-Ship-Models/Accessories-for-special-Shipmodels/Motorisierungssatz-ital-Sportboot-25035.htm?shop=krick_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=25036&p=197&rdeocl=1&rdetpl=productpage&rdebox=box4 (https://www.krickshop.de/Accessories-Spare-Parts/Accessories-for-Ship-Models/Accessories-for-special-Shipmodels/Motorisierungssatz-ital-Sportboot-25035.htm?shop=krick_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=25036&p=197&rdeocl=1&rdetpl=productpage&rdebox=box4)


I've gone for a pair of Overlander Brushless Outrunner 3530 1100kv motors at around £20.00 each. Built my own shafts and P Brackets, I think prop shop would supply similar for around £30 each.


And two standard scale 1415 (35mm) Prop shop props at around £15 each.


A pair of ZTW Shark 30A ESCs at £20.00 each.


And I've built my own rudders / shafts from scratch.  Maybe a value of say £15.00 each...


So I think that's about £200.00 worth of running hardware, that equates to the contents list of the 'hardware kit' by Amati and sold by CMB for £150.00.


A pair of Turnigy Graphene 3000mAh 3S Lipos at £25.00 each provides the power.


Then its the RC bits and consumables as for any build.


So in round figures so far we're at:


£280.00 Main kit
£200.00 ish for the running hardware
£  50.00 ish for the Lipos
[size=78%]______[/size]
£530.00


I have spent on some specialist parts....  £50.00 for a micro water pump...  £10.00 on faux leather...  LEDs and so on.


I did purchase a couple of 1/10 figures too, say £40.00.


So I'd say overall we're around the £600.00 mark, and if it makes it to the water for £750.00, I'll count that as a win.


A couple of your specific points:


1. Etched brass parts and deck fittings are all in the kit.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/29/IMG_1200-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/29/IMG_1203-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/29/IMG_1207-Custom.jpg)


Here are the Cap Marquettes Dock Lights (UKMike kindly sent these as they were surplus, they're available via CMB), the kit versions are not good:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/29/IMG_1201-Custom.jpg)


Here are the Lipos in place:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/29/IMG_1209-Custom.jpg)


Here's a motor / ESC combo:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/29/IMG_1206-Custom.jpg)


2. Seating / cushions are in the kit, but a bit nasty.  They're heavy and just a bit agricultural, so will be binned.  I haven't seen a third party set at all.


Looking at your other builds I think you'll love the Aquarama...  It deserves attention to detail and it looks to me like you have that in spades..!  I do think the standard kit build can be improved upon, mainly to get decent performance in terms of handing on the water.  Everyone seems to add a harder chine, and it has to be built light.


[/size]Hope that helps.
[/size]David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 29, 2020, 05:19:56 pm
Meant to add.  LOA 86cm, beam 26cm.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/06/29/IMG_1214-Custom.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on June 29, 2020, 05:34:34 pm
Fantastic info thank you for taking the time to share  :-))
Interesting about the etched brass set as CMB said itís not included
Weíll see tomorrow  :-)


I plan on Raboesch sealed prop tubes. Your motor choice seems appropriate  :-)  I want to avoid water cooling myself
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 29, 2020, 06:08:25 pm
No problem. And re cooling, the motors seem to be running cool in testing, its the ESCs that are getting warm.


And 'we'll see tomorrow...' does that mean you've ordered one..?


 :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on June 29, 2020, 06:15:34 pm
Yes arrives by UPS tomorrow and blog already started  {-)
I found on my Shannon that my Turnigy marine ESC's did not need water cooling because the motors were only pulling half their rated continuous current.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 01, 2020, 11:01:26 am
Morning All


Planning to get first layer of planking over the transom, a little confused over the suggested approach in the Amati instructions, they seem at odds with a few of the other builds I've seen and with my version of common sense too...


Amati suggest (in this order) shape and glue the two mahogany profiles, then glue the two lower panels, then fill in with 'excess lime strips':


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/01/20200701_104118.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/01/20200701_104210.jpg)


I'd have thought the mahogany profiles go on last, after the first and second layer of planking. I don't see the point of the lower panels as they're thin (1mm) compared to the lime planks (1.5mm), so when the mahogany layer is planked there will be a 'step' in the planking.


So I think its a case of lime plank the whole transom, bin the lower panels, and then shape / add the mahogany profiles after the mahogany planking. Or have I missed something...?  (@UKMike, any comments..?)


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 01, 2020, 11:12:11 am
https://youtu.be/V9KEszfwZ_w (https://youtu.be/V9KEszfwZ_w). 6 mins onwards




and https://youtu.be/dQF2lsaXASE
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 01, 2020, 11:54:09 am
Morning Andy


Yes, that makes more sense re the planking.


Not that it makes much difference to the planking issue, but there are some differences on that transom, I'm not sure, that may be the earlier version of the kit, I think you and I have the current version.  Compare the lower section.


My transom looks like this:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/01/Transom.jpg)


Compared to:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/01/v1transom.jpg)


Hope DHL get their act together today...


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 01, 2020, 12:03:21 pm
I always take instructions with a pinch of salt. Common sense prevails  :-))


UPS are the culprit
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on July 01, 2020, 01:57:33 pm
Hello David.


Look at my build Page 5, Pict.0005 and Page 6 Pict. 0002. That's the way to do it and you will arrive at at Page 13 Pict CMG 0499 if that's the result that you are looking


for.


Don't bin anything, go by your first picture and disregard the second one, which is confusing, typical Amati.


Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 01, 2020, 04:36:37 pm
Kit arrived
Just trying to check through the parts %%
The aftermarket etched set is the old parts comprising of two sheets
The one included in the kit now has all the same parts apart from F-09 is omitted ?


Question
Did your windscreen frame have a protective film on it
Mine has small scratches on port and starboard outer faces, is this normal ? Will they polish out?
Everything in the cockpit parts box was a jumble
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 01, 2020, 05:03:13 pm
Hi Andy


Pleased to hear you now have something to clutter up that impressive work bench...



OK, that makes sense re the etched parts. I have one physical etched plate, shown as two separate plates on the plans... And F-09 is not there.


My windscreen frame does not have any protection, but is not damaged either, it was in the general parts box so maybe I was just lucky...  I guess its either try to polish out scratches, or request  replacement part.  (On the up side, you won't be needing it for a while...   ok2 [size=78%]  )[/size]


And yes the seats and cockpit parts box was not in a good shape on arrival, nothing was in place. But I checked and there was no damage and nothing missing.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 01, 2020, 05:05:58 pm
Hi Mike


Thanks for that reference to your build log, I should have checked before ranting...


So, nothing binned, and build progressing.   :-))


Pics to follow when something to show.


Thanks and regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 03, 2020, 10:00:59 am
OK, stern has given me some issues.


Something looked odd, so I started measuring.


How about this, the two side pieces:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/03/stern01.jpg)


When viewed from above, are not the same thickness:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/03/stern02.jpg)


I've not noticed before, it looks like they're just different thickness ply, under a magnifying light the ply layers /construction is different.  When I use a vernier I get just over 8mm for the port, and just under 6mm for the starboard pieces. A lot of the Amati kit is laser cut, and pieces still 'in' the wood panel, then scalpel to ease them out.  I do recall these pieces were loose. They're just stuck to the flat transom frame panel, they only fit one way around, I can't see how I could have built in a 2mm difference...


@Andy, would be interested to hear if your pieces are same thickness..?


Anyway, some reshaping now done, port side has been taken down to match starboard, and the build makes progress.  Decided to use the lower panels in the end, if they shape correctly during sanding then fine.  If not, well plan b remains planking all the way down.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/03/IMG_1224-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/03/IMG_1225-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/03/IMG_1227-Custom.jpg)


Hoping to get the planks trimmed up later today.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 03, 2020, 10:05:39 am
I'm actually just assembling this jigsaw now. My parts came out of the same lasered sheet and I confirm are the correct thickness to fit the ribs.
I will be posting pictures of my order of assembly later today  :-)


Meanwhile another question. The rear seat base panel that is removable! if assembled with the four parts the upright where your heels would be and seat base are not at 90 degrees. All the pictures indicate that it is?
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 03, 2020, 10:18:36 am
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-ZzjwpL2/0/eda66d31/XL/ADAAE0F2-4E7D-41DA-800E-7E0477008099-XL.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-qk9KXwn/0/f172f004/XL/D5127DC8-21B7-44F5-BCFF-A02ECC57F03D-XL.jpg)




other question
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-4NtzM34/0/4170cfb2/M/C01C1994-3ED4-40A3-8AA3-6F7DFFE19202-M.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-7DKTvGf/0/04a1e20e/M/C010C0F7-CF65-4EB2-A616-08641C0CA389-M.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 03, 2020, 10:52:11 am
OK having just recapped the instructions I can see where you went wrong. That is I would say very unlucky like my frame 4  %%
Each side is made of TWO parts of different thickness. I believe you assembled two thin pieces and two thick pieces rather than one of each.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-rswvH4K/0/0eed4451/XL/34279EAA-3E55-43AC-AF0C-275075603693-XL.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-VdsMGjR/0/960a7ad9/XL/AC2F9FDB-C36D-4D39-AAC2-977B85C2B11F-XL.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 03, 2020, 11:01:42 am
Doh...  And I think you're right...


 :embarrassed:
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 03, 2020, 11:04:14 am
And that motor cover assembly should be at that slightly odd angle.


I have seen it trimmed to 90į on other build logs.  To be regretted later.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 03, 2020, 04:04:36 pm
OK, last update for this week.


Stern now planked, sanded and flush with the lower panels:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/03/IMG_1228-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/03/IMG_1229-Custom.jpg)


Inside of the lime planks now has a thinned layer of resin, that's going to have time over the weekend to fully cure, then next week onto sanding...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/03/IMG_1231-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/03/IMG_1232-Custom.jpg)


Great weekend to all..!
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: VIC on July 03, 2020, 08:03:51 pm
Hi i have just started building the Riva anyone able to guide me with location of
Drilling hole for water cooling  tubing electrics etc, how do you set the centres reply would be appreciated. Vic.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 04, 2020, 07:19:56 am
Morning Vic


Great to hear you also have the Aquarama in build. Would be great to see some pictures.


There's a message and pictures in post #76 and #88 of this thread that shows where I'm placing the prop / water pickup and rudder. But please not I'm placing props quite a long way forward compared to standard layout. If you're thinking of the internal drilling, that's there to save weight, and in some cases allow cable/ pipe routing. The large weight saving holes were just drilled where I can see they're going to be hidden, and won't weaken the structure. Then I've just 'dry installed' the various internal hardware to figure out where the cables / tubes need to run, and ideally will be hidden. It's easier to do this before planking.


Hope that helps. Feel free to PM me if you'd like any more info.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 04, 2020, 11:57:00 am

For Vic This video (part of a series of 33 so far) One mans efforts
This episode shows his water cooling
https://youtu.be/5gQOpEUulj4


The dimension between propeller centre lines is 87mm as show on your plans
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 07, 2020, 09:52:31 am
Morning All


Some small diversion from the main build, I know Mike has taken steps to seal the two stern hatches due to the boat producing quite a bit of spray, so have been looking at that on my build too.  Work in progress:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/07/IMG_1241-Custom.jpg)


Also looking at the cabin upholstery, the patch of cream faux leather that comes with the kit is quite small.  I plan to rebuild the seats and cockpit / sundeck padding so have bought a square metre of thin faux leather from Amazon (£7.00) so I make sure everything is made from same material.  Also the cabin floor is work in progress. Amati provide it as normal ply, with instructions to Mahogany stain it... I tried a couple of stains, it came out purple both times. So I used 0.5mm mahogany planks, then sealed and varnished, most of it will be hidden, but we'll all know its there..!! :


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/07/IMG_1235-Custom.jpg)


And the sound system...  I'm not 100% sure about this. It's adding back weight, but I'm try hard to save in other areas. Part of the real Aquarama experience is the two V8s... So I'm playing with the Mtroniks V8 sound unit, it's marketed for vehicles, but is waterproof, as is the speaker and comes in two versions, one with gear, and a more boat friendly version, without gears.  It has a startup sound, then a proportional V8 sound, and it has a volume control so as not to frighten the ducks.  I've added a tube to the speaker to make the sound deeper, and then when its in the front cabin structure the reverb (or whatever that effect is) makes the sound quite deep and V8 like.  And the speaker weighs 30 grams.  I'm going to build in support for it, but make it removable without using a hammer.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/07/IMG_1237-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/07/IMG_1243-Custom.jpg)


Back to work...



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 07, 2020, 09:58:54 pm
I think I will be using yet another ESS Dual for this. This one was a freebie due to an eBay seller shipping error


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-83rrPHH/0/90a0c160/X2/216562A5-2E76-4518-97D6-63FFB2ECED23-X2.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-g8Sj2sv/0/8355805c/X2/E538F0DC-50B6-4140-9FF3-C79175917704-X2.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 09, 2020, 05:51:44 pm
Busy with some work in the real world, but here's a view of the hull picking up the chine line:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/09/IMG_1254-Custom.jpg)


But for the Aquarama its sanding, sanding, and some more sanding...
[/size]
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/09/IMG_1250-Custom.jpg)
[/size]
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/09/IMG_1255-Custom.jpg)
[/size]
And tomorrow, there'll be some more sanding...
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 09, 2020, 06:34:49 pm
Sweet  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 20, 2020, 05:43:43 pm
Afternoon All


Not made too much progress over past fortnight, two reasons:


1. Thought I'd give Andy time to catch up...  %)


2. I need Mike to fill in the details on how to varnish an Aquarama.  :-))


(See: [size=78%]https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,65316.0.html (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,65316.0.html)[/size][/size][size=78%] )[/size]


So, Cap Maquettes Docking lights cut into the lime planks, I used a single reversible template to get same position and angle on both sides, drilled a starter hole then used a dremel:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/20/IMG_1256-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/20/IMG_1257-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/20/IMG_1262-Custom.jpg)


And here's an overview from the top:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/20/IMG_1265-Custom.jpg)


I've not had a lot of time so have been working on a few odds and ends. Some of the upholstery started.  Some progress with the rear slipway, and some of the wiring loom starting to take shape.


Also the sun lounger area area has had some waterproofing added in the corners, and looking at best way to waterproof the rear hatch.  I'm making a frame around the hatch, the hatch will then sit on closed cell foam.


Sanding of lime layer pretty much done.


Best regards to all.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 20, 2020, 06:14:43 pm
 
Topic renamed  :-)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 20, 2020, 06:25:48 pm
Nice one  :-))


Looking great David  :-)


Can I asked what adhesive you have used for the vinyl ?


I'm not water proofing hatches, just making as snug a fit as possible. If we get the running trim correct I don't think it will suffer from swamping.


I avoid placing sensitive electrics below potential drip points but expect some ingress where it won't matter.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 20, 2020, 06:38:29 pm
 
Yeah, much better than the other "build" on here!     {-)






                                                                                                                                    How do I report myself to Admin?!?   :P

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 20, 2020, 07:21:47 pm
Haha..!  There's going to have to be an Aquarama owners meet up after all this...  There'll be so much varnish to be admired...


And the glue, I'm using UHU Power for the vinyl. Workable for a while if required, or used as contact adhesive for instant grip. And it doesn't string too badly.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 20, 2020, 09:43:18 pm
That guy on youtube is building for Amati it seems. Best I could see on freeze frame he appears to be using some form of superglue for the vinyl.


Pretty certain it will be a disappointment if it ever sails. No attempt to reduce weight at all in 36 video stages. I'll bet it hits 6kg  %%
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on July 20, 2020, 09:53:10 pm
That guy on youtube is building for Amati it seems. Best I could see on freeze frame he appears to be using some form of superglue for the vinyl.


Pretty certain it will be a disappointment if it ever sails. No attempt to reduce weight at all in 36 video stages. I'll bet it hits 6kg  %%
Andy.


The glue is probably UHU POR. Great for upholstering, all mine has been done using UHU and Copydex.


Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 22, 2020, 05:06:36 pm
Afternoon All


Installed some more fresh air today...  Improves access too.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/22/IMG_1267-Custom.jpg)


Also made the bench seat mod as devised by Andy. Magnets to hold it in place:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/22/IMG_1268-Custom.jpg)


Then I've been looking at the sunlounger pad, and how its supported.  So, with plagiarism to the fore (thanks go to Mike this time) the panel it sits on has been bowed:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/22/IMG_1273-Custom.jpg)


And magnets installed:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/22/IMG_1274-Custom.jpg)


And this chunk of the kit...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/22/IMG_1272-Custom.jpg)


Is being replaced by these pieces of balsa, that are due to be upholstered on Mrs DJWs sewing machine tonight...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/22/IMG_1275-Custom.jpg)


I've been playing with the sewing machine to get dialled in, all I'm planning is to run some stitches across the centre 'cushion' for detailing. I'm hoping this will take me closer to working on the main seating which will be a greater challenge.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 22, 2020, 09:15:09 pm
Nice work. I need to sort the magnets  O0 
I never though about lightening the Sun deck, I will heliumify it  {-)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 23, 2020, 11:22:49 am
Morning Andy


Thanks for that, I'm using these: [size=78%]https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XD82PNB (https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XD82PNB)[/size]


I've also learnt that Sewing machines are not toys and should be treated with great respect.


 :o
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 23, 2020, 04:45:05 pm
Afternoon All


Forget Lathes and drills, sewing is where its at...


 :-))


Made a new Sunlounger pad, balsa core, some thin foam, and cream faux leather:


BTW. I purchased an extra 1 sq metre of the cream faux leather on Amazon at £7.99, its about the same thickness and colour of the Amati supplied piece, plus a sample sized piece of red.


https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00OYTSVN6 (https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00OYTSVN6)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/23/IMG_1276-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/23/IMG_1277-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/23/IMG_1278-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/23/IMG_1281-Custom.jpg)


Then some piping:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/23/IMG_1282-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/23/IMG_1284-Custom.jpg)


Then put it all together:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/23/IMG_1289-Custom.jpg)


And as I used very special helium filled foam:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/23/IMG_1290-Custom.jpg)


A third of the original Amati pad....  Just saying.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on July 23, 2020, 05:06:32 pm
Good work


My wife agrees with you  {-)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 24, 2020, 01:38:06 pm
OK, time for the scales...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/24/IMG_1293-Custom.jpg)


Probably slightly over Andy's boat weight at similar build point. In comparison not quite as much fresh air installed, and some deck woodwork not yet installed.  Hard to say what the weight saving measures have taken off the standard build.


Motors with mounts add 250 grams, prop shaft hardware is quite light I think, 7mm brass tube, and not full length:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/24/IMG_1292-Custom.jpg)


 
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on July 26, 2020, 12:40:43 pm
Hi David.

Just remembered, I did promise you a little while ago that I would give you an Ed China,(Wheeler Dealer), type top tip, re the Saxboards and Musetto.

An awful lot of the Amati Aquarama builders in the past made a mistake with the shaping of the Saxboards and the fitting of the Musetto, so, here is my top tip.

The pictures show what I mean and I'm sorry for the sunlight reflections on the varnish, not. ok2 ok2 .

Firstly the Saxboards, they should not be flattened at all, notice in the pictures that they gently and evenly curve to emulate that of the Foredeck, except for the small

area at the nose of the bow to allow the Musetto to sit neatly on top. Under no circumstances must the Saxboards be relieved so that the Musetto sits flush with

them. You will also notice in the pictures that there is a generous  space between the Foredeck and the sharp edge of the Saxboards.

Another picture to look at is in my original blog and can be found at page 7 photo Pict 0001.

I chose your blog to post this info to keep my promise to you, but hopefully, all of your followers will pick it up.

Hope you don't mind my doing it.


Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on July 27, 2020, 10:24:31 am
Morning Mike


Always grateful for tips and help to avoid bear traps... This is my first wooden build since forever...


Brilliant workmanship in those pictures.

And as for the sunlight reflections in the varnish, that will be my aim in life going forward.
 O0


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 07, 2020, 05:16:58 pm
Finally a modest update to report...


I wanted to add a speaker into the bow to use the cabin 'box' to deepen the sound.  So the speaker is waterproof and very light, then placed forward of the inside cabin panel. Speaker sized hole cut in the panel, and panel covered in a plastic gauze (from a PC fan):


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/07/IMG_1297-Custom.jpg)


Cables installed for the various lights and the speaker.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/07/IMG_1298-Custom.jpg)


And have started the lime planking of the bow.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/07/IMG_1299-Custom.jpg)


Will add a couple of more planks then install cabin upholstery while I can still access from the top, then tape up the forward cabin til all the sanding is done.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/07/IMG_1300-Custom.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 10, 2020, 04:48:51 pm
Afternoon All


Cabin upholstery added, made it very light replacing the supplied ply with a balsa core and as I'll be keeping the 'door' open, it'll look the part. (Well if anyone has a torch...):


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/10/IMG_1301-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/10/IMG_1302-Custom.jpg)


Then its more of the lime planks:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/10/IMG_1304-Custom.jpg)


Have to be a bit creative with clamps and elastic bands to get a good close fit at the deck edge:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/10/IMG_1305-Custom.jpg)


And this is current state of build:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/10/IMG_1306-Custom.jpg)


And I'm down to scraps of lime planks, not quite enough to complete, which is not ideal.  I thought I'd just used one plank to make brackets and so on that aren't in the instructions.  If I hadn't I'd be fine.  Seems Amati don't leave much leeway.


Anyway, ordered some more for stock from CMB, plus some spare 1x1mm lime that Andy found was also down to the wire on the deck inlay. Also added some extra Mahogany strips just in case, they're not expensive.


As the modified dash is has LEDs and resistors behind it I've modified the deck lime planks to be slightly shorter, only about 8mm.  It'll be covered with supplied mahogany parts later in the build.


Here's the dash dry fitted:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/10/IMG_1307-Custom.jpg)


Power connector seen at lower right of the dash (above) has a matching connector built into the cabin roof so will be hidden. Power cables are also in place for the dock lights and mast lights.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/10/IMG_1309-Custom.jpg)


That's about it for now.  Hoping the additional wood will be here in a couple of days.  I'll trim up whats done so far but not start sanding til deck is complete.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on August 10, 2020, 05:46:43 pm
Good move I had no spare Mahogany at all. I had 5 lime planks spare and in the end I needed at least 5 1x1 lime.
Looking good
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 11, 2020, 10:01:19 am
Morning All


Quick note to say really impressed with CMB (Cornwall Model Boats).  Ran out of lime planks Sunday afternoon, ordered more from CMB on Sunday evening, ticked the normal Royal Mail 1st Class delivery.  Tube arrived 0900 Tuesday.


 :-))


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/11/IMG_1310-Custom.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 11, 2020, 05:56:04 pm
Least I could do after the fast delivery was to use them...  So, forward deck is now lime planked, and side deck ply installed.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/11/IMG_1311-Custom.jpg)


I did order a some 3mm planks as well as the 7mm, I used a 3mm toward the edge of the deck on both sides to get the final 7mm plank to just overhang, so be easier to trim:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/11/IMG_1312-Custom.jpg)


I've ended up in same position as reported by Andy, a height difference with the side deck.  I'm thinking sand the deck and dash support to the side deck level.  Is that you what you end up doing Andy..?  Any comments Mike..?


So this is what its all looking like now:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/11/IMG_1313-Custom.jpg)

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on August 11, 2020, 06:02:35 pm
Yes I planed the mismatch down then finished by sanding prior to fitting the mahogany.  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on August 11, 2020, 06:10:53 pm
Sorry I failed to show I followed through with that but I've managed to edit a close up
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-2JfvRWR/0/b9dea5f5/X2/E02EE403-3F70-4B74-9EED-D66F72997BF7-X2.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 13, 2020, 09:14:56 am
Morning All


Thanks for that Andy. Here's my version:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/13/dash-Custom.jpg)


Looks right to me...


The forward deck is now sanded:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/13/IMG_1317-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/13/IMG_1316-Custom.jpg)


As a general note, not sure whether this is standard practice but its helping me. I've made up a few sanding blocks from the large to the very small, there are a couple in the background here:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/13/IMG_1315-Custom.jpg)


The pool noodle approach has been discussed a few times and has been invaluable on the hull with all the curves of the Aquarama.  The large flat has been very useful on the topsides so far to get the tops of the frames to perfectly align height and shape wise.


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 14, 2020, 03:20:47 pm

Afternoon All


Had another sort through the planks to get dodgy coloured planks for use below waterline, they'll end up painted, picked out the best for the sides and stern.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/14/IMG_1319-Custom.jpg)


Then started on a couple of the important planks:


The chine and the keel / centreline:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/14/IMG_1320-Custom.jpg)


Chine has gone on OK, the two that meet at the centre line have had quite an undercut to get them to meet properly:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/14/IMG_1321-Custom.jpg)


0.5mm drill through the mahogany making the 0.5mm pins easy to use.  Small hammer is easier than the pin pusher for these.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/14/IMG_1322-Custom.jpg)


Final shaping where the planks taper at the bow to be done in place.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/14/IMG_1323-Custom.jpg)


Doesn't really show on this picture but I found it easier to see the precise 'point of the V' centreline after rubbing a pencil along it.


David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 17, 2020, 11:29:55 am
Morning All


Mahogany planking of the hull continues.  This is the approach I'm using, and tools:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1324-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1325-Custom.jpg)


I mark up in pencil a position so I can replicate the plank position and test the fit:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1326-Custom.jpg)


I use a blade to scrape away any excess glue from previous plank, to get a good fit:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1327-Custom.jpg)


I lay a bead of adhesive where the plank will sit, and a second against the earlier plank:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1328-Custom.jpg)


Working from the stern I make sure the planks are tight together, then clamp:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1330-Custom.jpg)


Then masking tape and bands to help keep flat, and drill 0.5mm and pin:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1329-Custom.jpg)


I stop short of the bow section, as it needs extra shaping and I find it easier to do when its held firmly in position:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1331-Custom.jpg)


More to follow.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 17, 2020, 11:55:17 am
Toward the bow the planks are on a convex hull shape, so even when the joint is cleaned up:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1333-Custom.jpg)


There's still a gap at the top of the plank joint:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1335-Custom.jpg)


So the planks have to be undercut:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1345-Custom.jpg)


So a good close joint is achieved:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1336-Custom.jpg)


Ideally the joint faces will meet well for the depth of the joint otherwise sanding will be problematic, possibly exposing a gap...


I've been using the micro plane to get the edge right.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1339-Custom.jpg)


Best regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 17, 2020, 06:15:45 pm
This is my process to form the planks at the bow, two planks glued to rear 2/3 of hull:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1346-Custom.jpg)


Mark and cut the approximate end:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1347-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1348-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1349-Custom.jpg)


Trim with micro plane:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1350-Custom.jpg)


Then sand:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1351-Custom.jpg)


Then I bring the other side plank over, and roughly trim it:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1353-Custom.jpg)


Secure the first plank with adhesive and pins:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1354-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1355-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1356-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1358-Custom.jpg)


Then I use a band to apply pressure right to the end of the plank:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1359-Custom.jpg)


And finish the sanding:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1360-Custom.jpg)


Bring the opposite plank over:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1361-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1362-Custom.jpg)


And keep it under tension:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1363-Custom.jpg)


Once dry, plane off excess, and sand:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1365-Custom.jpg)


And that's another pair added:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/17/IMG_1366-Custom.jpg)


Then I alternate the next pair.


They'll all be sanded to an end result once in place to for the correct shape.


Hope that's of interest.
Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on August 17, 2020, 06:21:06 pm
Very good David  :-))
I spent most of my time wiping off excess glue  {-)  probably why I've used 400grams  %%   
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on August 17, 2020, 06:28:27 pm
David that's a good technique that you have got there.  As an addition I also bend the plank laterally which saves forcing it over at the bow.  This gives a flatter joint to the first layer of planking as it stops the clinkering effect and also reduces the amount of finishing sanding.  Your build is absolutely beautiful  O0
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Nordlys on August 17, 2020, 08:15:06 pm
Your photos provide a lot of help and info. I'd love to build one myself one day, just checking if I have the skills, and cash!
Thanks.


Nordlys
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 18, 2020, 09:19:31 am
Morning All


Thanks for the comments guys.


I thought I'd document the bow planking for a couple of reasons:


1. If it turns out to be a rubbish bow, I'll help people who go after to know that approach doesn't work.
2. This is my first planked boat build, ever.  So for those contemplating the Aquarama, if I can get past some of the (in my view) difficult sections of the build (like the bow) OK, then anyone can. I'm taking all the info I can find around the web from other build logs, listening to those that have been here before and taking it steady.
3. By showing in detail how I've done it, I get very helpful comments from folks who've been here before and I learn for next time. (Thanks MarkT..!) I hadn't thought about putting a bend in the planks...  That would help as they need quite a lot of force to hold them in place right at the bow..!


And as Andy said a week or so ago, this is a really enjoyable build. Seeing the classic Aquarama shape emerge is a pleasure.  If aiming for a high quality result its a challenge at every step for sure. I have no idea how many hours I've put in so far, several hundred, and if its finished for next summer I think that would be a good result, that would be 18 months.  As a kit, I think most of the parts are good quality, there are workarounds documented on the various build logs for the deficient components. But as already documented its designed as a static model and needs major weight saving plus a chine mod as a minimum for an RC build. My other comment is that like chess, the next several stages of the build have to be taken into account when doing anything, the instruction book is very light on detail, and seems like a Google translation from the original Italian, not always making a lot of sense.


Back to the planks...


 :-))


Good day to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on August 22, 2020, 02:07:04 pm
Hi David - I meant to post this for you but forgot  %%


If like me when you started bevelling your planks I found it very difficult to hold them and get a uniform bevel along the length.  There are some expensive plank holding tools that quite frankly are cheaply made junk and no use to a builder.  I made a simple tool out of some aluminium angle from B&Q held together with 3mm bolts.  I use this tool all of the time and you get a nice even bevel  :-))


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/22/IMG_2885.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/22/IMG_2886.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/22/IMG_2887.jpg)


Mark
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 24, 2020, 11:33:49 am
Morning Mark


I like that a lot, thanks for the pictures...  And I guess it helps with symmetry too if you load up two planks.  I'll make up a similar clamp.


I have put this together to give me a consistent chamfer, its based around an old dremel, the aluminium angle fence can be moved to give pretty fine control of depth, and changing the dremel head gives me different angles:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1399-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1389-Custom.jpg)


Good at what it does, but I like your approach.


Thanks
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 24, 2020, 11:54:14 am
Morning All


Been busy with the planking on the bottom of the hull.  It's taken some time to develop the chine as I want it.  This is one of the main mods I'm doing to the Amati kit and I think the one that will make the biggest difference out on the water.


So the chine is not visible right at the bow, the bottom planks meet the side planks and are flush:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1369-Custom.jpg)


As the planking proceeds back down the hull the start of the chine can be seen, just the depth of one plank:


[size=78%]


This shows the revised chine line from the side, the mahogany plank on the side shows the original chine line of the kit:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1373-Custom.jpg)


The revised line tapers down the length of the hull (shown bow to stern in next pictures):


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1384-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1385-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1386-Custom.jpg)


Then an additional plank is added below the original chine line:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1391-Custom.jpg)


Then planed down to reveal the new chine:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1392-Custom.jpg)


Have to admit to a little filler to get the final shape...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1398-Custom.jpg)


Then this is going to allow a slight scooping of the chine once fully sanded.  This is current state of the hull:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1400-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/24/IMG_1401-Custom.jpg)


Plan now is to get the sanding progressed, and the holes cut out for the various shafts.


David.

[/size]
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on August 24, 2020, 01:59:34 pm
Hi David.

So that's how a ruler works, have wondering what they were for many years now😊😊

Excellent work, it's going to be credit to you when finished. Vestri solers sunt in summo ordine.

I note that you asked Andy why he changed to No.1, I wondered that too. His answer quite surprising, exactly the opposite to what I have found over the time that I've been using it. Particularly he quick drying time of the No1, both types have an agonizingly slow drying time, admittedly,  Classic does take slightly longer but there is no way it is out shined by the No1, although there is very little in it.

I have a couple of photo's showing the Musetto, particularly how it sits on top of the Saxboards and not let into them, if you are interested.

Continua cosž.

Mike.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on August 24, 2020, 02:57:16 pm
My findings are in line with the product descriptions @
https://www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/varmain.html (https://www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/varmain.html)


I found there was less brushing time and when it came to sanding down I clearly had brush marks
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on August 29, 2020, 03:43:46 pm
Afternoon All



Some Aquarama controversy for Saturday...


I've coated the bottom of the hull in thinned z-poxy finishing resin, and will then be using several coats of International 'Original' Polyurethane varnish to give the end result. This has been a tough call as I can see Mike and Andy have got awesome results from the Le Tonk products on the same build, I've done some of my own testing with the two approaches and this combination delivered best results for me.  Time will tell if this is a monumental blunder... The challenge will be to get it somewhere close to the gloss of the Le Tonk route.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/29/IMG_1406-Custom.jpg)


After two thinned coats of z-poxy followed by sanding, I arrived at this:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/29/20200828_174253-Custom.jpg)


Then the cutouts and dry fit of the shafts, P brackets, water pickups and rudder stocks:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/29/20200829_141841-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/29/20200829_142244-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/29/20200829_141919-Custom.jpg)


Shaft angle is shallow at around 8.5į, with a 3mm gap between hull and 35mm prop tip:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/29/20200829_142142-Custom.jpg)


Will probably go back to a little more planking now.  Rudders are possibly a shade oversized, but I think I'll leave them as the are til I've had the boat on the water.


Here's some context:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/29/20200829_152529-Custom.jpg)


And here's the measurement I've used.  The rudders are in the original position, but the props are a good way forward, this is just personal preference:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/29/20200829_152744-Custom.jpg)


And the shafts from the inside:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/08/29/20200829_152848-Custom.jpg)


That pic shows that the motor mounts are in same position as the standard build, but as the shafts are running lower in the hull I can still run a shallow shaft angle and bring the props forward.


David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on August 29, 2020, 03:49:44 pm
Hi David I think that's a really good approach.  The epoxy will certainly fill any tiny holes etc and sands just like glass.  If you wanted it to be ultra glossy you could always use a 2 pack clear coat which you can buy in rattle cans.  It would be very very tough too!
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on August 29, 2020, 04:24:25 pm
As we discussed I think youíve gone the right route and if I build another, resin and polyurethane will be my route too.
LeTonk will happily go over Zpoxy too as can be seen in my seating area.


Looking great David  :-))


Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 01, 2020, 05:48:13 pm
Afternoon All


Thanks for the comments chaps. The build progresses.


Working to bring the mahogany planks up the side of the hull:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/01/IMG_1413-Custom.jpg)


I'm finding that the only way to hold them in place is a combination of pins, clamps and bands, the magnets I've tried aren't up to it, and access is tricky.  I have started to prepare the planks by pre drilling and inserting the fine pins, then apply the glue to the hull and I find its more straightforward (and quicker) to then use the planks with pre placed pins.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/01/IMG_1412-Custom.jpg)


I'm finding the hand drilling easier than using a power drill or dremel.  Not using the pin pusher at all, and reusing a lot of the pins.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/01/IMG_1414-Custom.jpg)


I've tried to avoid the issue of the planks being not quite long enough for the stern to tip of the bow by reserving that section for short filler planks. (Stealers..?)

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/01/IMG_1415-Custom.jpg)


Just reaching the end of my first bottle of Titebond 3, so thats 237ml used so far.


I was thinking about the 'extended chine', in that it should add to the displacement of the hull as its now going to displace a little more water than the standard build. So while we're trying to keep weight down, the chine should help keep the bow higher even at rest. I think a conservative estimate of the chine volume would be something like 6mm of extra freeboard along say 400mm of the hull (it tapers heavily along more of the hull), and the flat area of the new chine is say 12mm wide for most of that 400mm of length.  So the displaced volume would be 6mm x 400mm x 12mm which is 28,800 cubic mm or 28.8 cubic cm. (It would be half of that per side as the chine is adding a triangular section, but thats mirrored on the other side, so its displacing an extra 28.8 cubic cm total.  So thats basically buying back an extra 30 grams of weight that the hull can carry to have the same waterline as the standard build....  I think.


David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 07, 2020, 05:53:15 pm
Afternoon All


Nearly there with the hull mahogany planking:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/07/IMG_1416-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/07/IMG_1417-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/07/IMG_1418-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/07/IMG_1419-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/07/IMG_1420-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/07/IMG_1421-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/07/IMG_1422-Custom.jpg)


Some final trimming up around the bow, some initial sanding then probably move to the stern.


I've been using mahogany sanding dust mixed with glue into a thick paste as a custom filler in a few places, I've got a couple of 'mahogany' fillers but they're all on the purple side of this mahogany...


David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 11, 2020, 05:35:53 pm
Afternoon All, a Friday update on progress.


Planks up the hull sides are complete:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1424-Custom.jpg)


Then thanks to whoever dreamed up the washing up liquid and water trick to get rid of the pin holes, so from this:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1426-Custom.jpg)


Via this, with particular attention to working the water into the pin holes:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1427-Custom.jpg)


To this:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1428-Customb40dfe385a24941d.jpg)


Then a start on the stern planking:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1429-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1430-Custom.jpg)


Exhaust holes cut out roughly while I could still see where they were...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1431-Custom.jpg)


Planks undercut and tapered slightly at each end as the stern is curved vertically and horizontally:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1432-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1433-Custom.jpg)


Sanding required to get that curve right I think, a work in progress, and I think my overhead work light makes that planking look worse than it is...  (Please reserve judgement til after the sanding...)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1434-Custom.jpg)


And this is current state of play:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/11/IMG_1435-Custom.jpg)


Ah.  Do I have to leave the forum now I've posted a picture of a plane flat on the desk...??
 {:-{
Great weekend to all..!
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on September 11, 2020, 05:50:29 pm
That was Mike  :-))


Plane offender 🙈😱🤣


Looking good  O0
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 14, 2020, 12:23:27 pm
Haha...  Afternoon All. The website that just keeps giving (Amazon) has just delivered me a roll of Al Oxide paper, and a very deceptive gold bag with a gold tassel drawstring which looks more like a wedding favour or something from a jewellery store...   


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/14/IMG_1437-Custom.jpg)


It's a funny old world...  For in reality it contains a set of shaped manganese steel cabinet scrapers...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/14/IMG_1439-Custom.jpg)


And of particular interest is the 'goose neck' to get into the Aquarama bow section:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/14/IMG_1438-Custom.jpg)


I'm realising that with sanding alone its tricky to get the smooth flowing curves, so this is going to be my approach to getting rid of the high spots before sanding / pool noodling....


David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on September 14, 2020, 12:26:09 pm
Really excellent
I wish Iíd known as they sure would have made the job easier  :-))

EDIT
Just seen some negative reviews that they need sharpening ??


A quick search found veritas
https://www.hobbies.co.uk/tools/hand-tools/veritas-super$9hard-curved-cabinet-scrapers?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaignid=6727975578&utm_campaign=Shopping-Research_Campaign&utm_term=&adid=388174523725&addisttype=gpla&matchtype=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqfz6BRD8ARIsAIXQCf3AWsfM0fFvbG9zv26X50F3p9uvdFYvSoXou91x9w9dfO-eaeIIdJYaAlcZEALw_wcB (https://www.hobbies.co.uk/tools/hand-tools/veritas-super$9hard-curved-cabinet-scrapers?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaignid=6727975578&utm_campaign=Shopping-Research_Campaign&utm_term=&adid=388174523725&addisttype=gpla&matchtype=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqfz6BRD8ARIsAIXQCf3AWsfM0fFvbG9zv26X50F3p9uvdFYvSoXou91x9w9dfO-eaeIIdJYaAlcZEALw_wcB)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 14, 2020, 12:48:45 pm
Hi Andy


I've been using a spare blade from the Amati plank bending tool for the scraping tasks so far, and really pleased with that as an approach, but its not feasible for the curves so I went out looking.  I saw the comments re sharpening, not sure what they're getting at really, the steel has lethal and hard edges already, not to an point like a blade but rather a crisp 90į, I've tried the gooseneck scraper and see no need to attempt to sharpen further.


Ah, wish I'd looked around / seen the Veritas versions...  I do like their tools...  The ones I have are no name versions, but hopefully fit for purpose. They do ship in a gold bag, that's the main thing...


 :-))


David.





Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on September 14, 2020, 12:58:55 pm
Sounds like they are ok
Perhaps inconsistent finish on those giving the feedback
Thanks for your feedback I will make a choice when I get home as I wonít need them now for my current build.
A gold bag is not to be sniffed at  {-)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on September 14, 2020, 01:24:56 pm
I just bought a set of 0.4 and 0.6 from here


https://www.tyzacktools.com/products/170-veritas-super-hard-curved-cabinet-scrapers.aspx (https://www.tyzacktools.com/products/170-veritas-super-hard-curved-cabinet-scrapers.aspx)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 15, 2020, 01:10:53 pm
Afternoon All


Very pleased with the shaped scrapers, very accurate used to profile the mahogany to full smooth curves.


So the hull has now had a once over with the scrapers, and first sanding. And have finished the cut outs for the cap maquettes dock lights. (Thanks again Mike...)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/15/IMG_1443-Custom.jpg)


Stern coming along too:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/15/IMG_1440-Custom.jpg)


Now with the cut outs for the exhausts:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/15/IMG_1444-Custom.jpg)


The exhausts are not standard Amati issue, they go through the transom and have a port for water cooling to exit via the exhaust tube, and a larger port for injecting vapour.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/15/IMG_1445-Custom.jpg)


Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 17, 2020, 09:42:14 am
Mission Control, we (may) have a problem...


The mahogany planking appeared at deck level leaving a small gap which I've filled.  I'm not sure whether this means my profiling of the lime layer was incorrect as it met the deck.



(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/17/IMG_1451-Custom.jpg)


Outcome is I've started to sand a flat where deck meets hull:
[/size]
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/17/IMG_1452-Custom.jpg)


But have stopped before going too far.  My plan is to use the 3.5mm chrome edging (ebay) so I'll wait for that to arrive to see how it fits...  Also to fit the mahogany deck side panels (parts 214 / 217) then sand to their shape.


There's another related issue, the bow now has a different side elevation to the plans where it joins the deck:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/17/IMG_1453-Custom.jpg)


My plan is to sand back on the deck edge and then the line of the bow to bring it back to plans, to keep the upward curve...


Any comments from my Aquarama colleagues are welcome...


In the meantime, in an effort to stay out of further trouble, I'm building the slipway:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/17/IMG_1454-Custom.jpg)


Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on September 17, 2020, 11:07:42 am
I don't think you have a problem. The shape looks great. Mike did point out that no two will be exactly the same. We are not machines so our building will vary. The main thing is how the Mahogany deck parts fit in relation to your planking.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-wMThWWW/0/67492437/XL/6DE1EA49-7CF6-4B5F-92EF-B359C5AE717A-XL.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-8Hq96tH/0/8c862566/4K/4DCEB5F2-24C7-4591-99EF-B531081CE087-4K.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 17, 2020, 12:05:05 pm
Hi Andy


Thanks for this, helpful and reassuring. I should have looked back over your log...


And yes, I'll get the various bits of additional mahogany bow pieces and see how they dry fit.


Hope you're getting some of this sunshine north of the border..!


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on September 17, 2020, 12:27:46 pm
We came home yesterday  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 18, 2020, 05:47:24 pm
Fridays update...


Dry fitted the top mahogany ply to check the fit, specifically how it fits over the bow.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/18/IMG_1455-Custom.jpg)


There's very little excess or 'adjustment' in the fit of the mahogany ply so the correct fixing of the first part (bow in my case) is important.


Happy with the fit so have started to attach the bow ply parts, have started to use the centring ruler to keep the bow symmetrical:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/18/IMG_1456-Custom.jpg)


And the centre ply strip, precision placement critical to get the subsequent inlay symmetrical:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/18/IMG_1458-Custom.jpg)


And this is the current position:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/18/IMG_1460-Custom.jpg)


I've used a blade to clear any excess glue so that the inlay strips will fit tight to the ply sides, I think its now ready for the inlay strips.  That's going to be tomorrow afternoons task all being well.


Great weekend to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 21, 2020, 10:01:23 am
Morning All


Plans for the weekend panned out OK so got some time on Saturday to work on the deck inlay, very satisfying to see the deck take shape:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/21/IMG_1461-Custom.jpg)


I've marked out a 'safe' area to lay the inlay to toward the dash, that will be eventually be covered by another panel:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/21/IMG_1462-Custom.jpg)


Using same source plank on opposite side to try to get a symmetry to the deck once finished:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/21/IMG_1467-Custom.jpg)


Trying hard to keep the symmetry to the outer edge, the benchmark set by those that have gone before is high....

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/21/IMG_1468-Custom.jpg)

Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 22, 2020, 05:58:13 pm
Afternoon All


Deck is pretty much complete...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/22/IMG_1473-Custom.jpg)


Pleased with the symmetry, it's within fractions of a mm:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/22/IMG_1474-Custom.jpg)


Some light sanding required to get the inlay surface complete:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/22/IMG_1475-Custom.jpg)


This is starboard side:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/22/IMG_1476-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/22/IMG_1478-Custom.jpg)


Current overview:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/22/IMG_1479-Custom.jpg)


Very satisfying stage of the build.


 :-))


Best regards to all.
David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 23, 2020, 09:53:01 am
Morning All


Just thought I'd add a couple of observations re the bow inlay.


1. Instruction book suggests (I think...) pre gluing a Mahogany strip to a Lime strip, see pic below.  I didn't do that, I found it easier to shape and apply them separately.


2. The instruction book calls for 1x1mm lime and 1x3mm mahogany to be used:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/23/IMG_1486-Custom.jpg)


In reality the supplied lime is noticeably rectangular in section:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/23/IMG_1481-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/23/IMG_1480-Custom.jpg)


Better news is that they're all about the same dimensions...


And the Mahogany 1x3mm is actually:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/23/IMG_1482-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/23/IMG_1483-Custom.jpg)


Again, all pretty much off by same amount, so could be worse.


I've used the Lime so that when viewed from above you're seeing the 'narrow' 0.93mm, this means that the height of the Lime (1.38mm ish) is close to the real height of the Mahogany (1.22mm ish)...  So they sit at similar heights when placed together on the deck. If you see what I mean...  This leaves the Lime slightly proud and in need of light sanding to bring down to the Mahogany. I think the pinstriping effect is also better when the lime is narrow.

I wasn't sure about taking the planking down the side of the dashboard, the instructions seem ambiguous to me. And different builds either take it over the curve at either side of the dashboard, or stop at the line of the dashboard. I've taken it all the way over the curve, rational being it'll be easy to reduce if needed, but tricky to add back in...

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/23/IMG_1484a.jpg)

Next step will either be shaping the bow for the Musetto / Cutwater or starting to get the stern sorted out...

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/23/IMG_1485-Custom.jpg)


Good day to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 23, 2020, 05:43:13 pm
Just had a look at the saxboards with a view to understanding the fit...  And they're disappointingly different in colour...  Any thoughts on correcting this gratefully received.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/23/IMG_1487-Custom.jpg)



Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on September 23, 2020, 05:50:36 pm
Hi David - Is there enough wood left on either panel that you could scribe the pattern and then cut them out?  That way all 4 pieces would be from the same panel. If not I would just buy a piece and cut them out afresh. Just out of interest have you tried giving them a light sand and then wet them slightly to see if the colour is that much different
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on September 23, 2020, 06:03:54 pm
Hi David.
I've got some Mahogany which looks very much the same colour as your transom planking photo.
I can send you some if it would help.
Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 23, 2020, 08:32:09 pm
Evening Both


Mark, thanks for comments. I've had a look, there's not enough excess to extract a new set from the existing Amati panel. I haven't tried sanding. But to be honest they're so different I don't think that's going to do it. I was wondering if you were going to come up with some old wisdom '... ah, just rub it over with an old teabag and it'll be fine...' 
 :-)
I've ordered some Mahogany panels as I need to build up some stock anyway, but thanks for the offer Mike. I'll let you know if the colour of the new panels is a reasonable match.


On a related matter. Either of you rate the Proxxon Scroll Saw..? Trying to build up the right tools.


Thanks
David.




I
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on September 24, 2020, 01:29:05 am
I donít know what the scroll saw is like but I have got the band saw. This is quite a good tool for its size and they make a very narrow blade for it now which I think is about 1.3mm wide. That would probably do the same job as the scroll saw - Mark
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on September 24, 2020, 03:14:44 am
David.
I strongly agree with Mark.
You'll get far more use from a bandsaw than a scroll saw. I made the mistake of starting with the s/saw but quickly came to the conclusion that having a bandsaw was the way to go, I don't think that a day goes by when I don't use it.
To me, the 3 most important machines to have, particularly if you build from plans, are, a pillar drill, bandsaw and a bench disc sander. There is very little that you can't do if you have them. The scroll saw will live under the bench most of it's life and a decent bandsaw will cut your new Saxboards quite easily.
Just my opinion of course, probably others will disagree.
BTW, I quickly sold the scroll saw shortly after buying it and haven't found the need for one yet.

Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 24, 2020, 08:48:01 am
Morning Both


Excellent recommendation coming from you two, so a bandsaw it is.


I did like the look of the small Proxxon disc sander too (as you mention it Mike), but that will have to wait for another day.  Pillar drill and small lathe / milling machine I do have, but I can feel the Proxxon versions being acquired over time as they look far more precise for small work.  And need to plan for Aquarama V2...


Is there a special handshake that goes with owning Proxxon tools..?


 %)


BTW, my wife is not impressed that you've just made me spend quite so much money. The good thing is that she's unhappy with you two more than me, so thanks for that.


 :-))


David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on September 24, 2020, 08:51:54 am
Good move David and I think youíll be happy with it  :-))   If you find it a bit noisy like I did, buy a sheet of dynamat on eBay and line the inside of the case with it. Itís the sound deadening stuff they use in cars and works great. Itís also self adhesive so it makes the job very simple



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on September 24, 2020, 10:35:21 am
Morning David.


Re the Aqarama V2.
Why not get the Amati plans that you have enlarged. If they are the same quality as the original supplied in the Mk.1 kit.
Also, if you do buy a Proxxon sander make sure it's the larger of the two, bigger is better where bench Sanders are concerned.


Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 24, 2020, 01:23:59 pm
Hi Mark, nice idea with the sound damping, I have some of that self adhesive foam for inside of PC cases.


And Mike, yes, I had wondered what the result would be in doing that...  I guess it would be good from the point of view of understanding the construction technique having worked through the 1/10 version.  The plans seem good to me.  I'll get further with the current build before deciding, but I do like the idea.


And noted re the sander, makes sense...
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on September 24, 2020, 01:57:49 pm
I have owned both Proxxon bench sanders and I ended up selling the larger to a member here. The smaller sander is the tool I use more than any other I have.


Perhaps another manufacturer may be a better choice for large sanders. I found the Proxxon underpowered
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on September 24, 2020, 02:17:30 pm
Example https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/060315300/?da=1&TC=GS-060315300&gclid=CjwKCAjwh7H7BRBBEiwAPXjadtBV75xjxDZ9x2n-rOGoyqmM0cCSeIyeqt0S2sPy5P2pFMIrzdx6XhoC80kQAvD_BwE
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Nordlys on September 24, 2020, 04:38:06 pm
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/24/20200924_162937.jpg)

This is my cast iron, very heavy duty sander. Does not lack power!
But,  I do like the look of that Record model though Andy.

I need to decide on another project first.

Nord.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 28, 2020, 09:50:00 am
Morning All


Thanks for the comments re the powertools. First new toy has arrived:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/28/IMG_1488-Custom.jpg)


I've added the noise absorbing foam to the inside of the cover, have to say that works really well (thanks Mark T...), noise level now very acceptable and a definite improvement over standard. At the moment I have it attached to a piece of MDF so I can clamp it where I want to use it.  Thinking about the Proxxon vacuum to go with it, to connect directly (it seems smart in that it powers up when the saw powers up) and to have it as a workshop vacuum, anyone have any experience with it..?  And I guess a future thought, anyone connected up a few power tools that take a dust extractor hose to a Vacuum, maybe using PVC pipe..?


Mahogany for the new Saxboards has arrived too, so cost of Saxboards at the moment...  £310.00...


 {:-{


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on September 28, 2020, 07:22:18 pm
Hi David
Mark and myself both use a Bosch gas Workshop Vac. https://www.howetools.co.uk/bosch-gas-20l-240v-dust-extractor?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgJyz07uM7AIVSebtCh1pbw4uEAQYAyABEgLU7PD_BwE
I made my own diverter flaps
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Boat-bits/i-D6DVQsN/0/4845e1ec/X3/4EE1713C-7F56-4748-9ADE-7181A9A225D2-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Boat-bits/i-53Q3zDS/0/19cc1766/X2/0C3171BD-2675-4250-8FE7-5107D45DB983-X2.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Boat-bits/i-qH7g49N/0/cb08b123/X2/A5C519D9-E9E7-49FA-90ED-7D519F3A37C4-X2.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 29, 2020, 09:58:20 am
Morning Andy


The Bosch sounds like a good option, and thanks for the plumbing pics.  Very tidy.


The Bosch is the same price as the Proxxon Vac / extractor, both have the 'auto on' function when a connected machine is turned on, so given your workshop is full of Proxxon gear, what made you choose the Bosch..?


Thanks
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on September 29, 2020, 10:08:38 am
We paid a much lower price from Poland at the time.
I would do a spec comparison. I use mine to vac the water out of the hot tub pipes at water change time  :-)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on September 29, 2020, 10:30:56 am
Andy put me onto the Bosch Vac when he found them cheap in Poland. Not only is it a great extractor it has saved our carpets a few times as itís a wet and dry jobby. We also use the hepta bags inside them and I get very little dust around the house and a happy wife. They are a bit noisy though but we donít have them on for that long anyway
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 29, 2020, 10:44:46 am
Morning Mark, thanks for this, key phrase and not to be underestimated is '...a happy wife...', she's been less than happy at having fine mahogany dust in places it shouldn't be...


 >>:-(



The Bosch sounds like the one to have.  I can keep it in a side room and plumb the hose through (with the 240v power take off) to use as an extractor, that should sort the noise.


Thanks again.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on September 30, 2020, 04:52:34 pm
Afternoon All


Started to get the first deck ply layer installed, bit of an issue at the stern, I don't seem to have got the planks tight enough to the frames:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/30/IMG_1489-Customa.jpg)


So I've used a small saw blade to separate the planks from the transom frame, shape the cutout a bit:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/30/IMG_1490-Custom.jpg)


Then clamped and glued it back for a tighter fit, seems fine now:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/30/IMG_1495-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/30/IMG_1497-Custom.jpg)


Have also sanded the deck a little more, its now super smooth, very pleased:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/30/IMG_1493-Custom.jpg)


So current overview is this:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/09/30/IMG_1498-Custom.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 01, 2020, 04:52:38 pm
Afternoon All


Good progress with a couple of hours of work today, continued with the first layer of deck ply, trimmed it to finish inside the mahogany side planking. Then used a 10 inch piece of ply with some 120 grit paper to get a straight finish at the deck line:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/01/IMG_1504-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/01/IMG_1507-Custom.jpg)


Then started on the mahogany layer:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/01/IMG_1509-Custom.jpg)


Some sanding and trimming left to do with the deck, but feels like a bit of a threshold reached, starting to look like a boat...  Only 9 months in...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/01/IMG_1512-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/01/IMG_1514-Custom.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on October 01, 2020, 06:02:55 pm
Very nice David looks like great finish already. I wouldnít worry about the time spent itís the enjoyment you get from it that counts  :-))   Looking forward to the next update
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 05, 2020, 02:53:10 pm
Hi Mark


Thanks for that, and I am really enjoying the build process.


Made some progress over the weekend with the rear hatch and how it seats in the hull. Getting ready to add the inlay.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/05/IMG_1519-Custom.jpg)


And made a start with the stern edge woodwork, should finish that this afternoon:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/05/IMG_1524-Custom.jpg)


I've decided to make the fitting of the rear hatch quite robust, so it'll be bolted through the frame immediately forward of the hatch, removable, but strong.  I'm going to add a Ski pole, this needs to go though the rear hatch toward the front. Pics to follow.


Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on October 05, 2020, 05:01:18 pm
Coming along nicely David. Been catching up on the last few posts and had to smile at the scroll saw versus bandsaw discussion as after some thought I went for the scroll saw and it gets a lot of use with all my builds being scratch built. I was going to get a Proxxon but went for a cheaper Record in the end and with decent blades I can't fault it. I've only got the scroll saw and a Proxxon handheld drill (unused!) as dedicated modelling tools but have lots of DIY tools which I make use of.

I cut keels and some decks out in one piece which I don't think you could do with a bandsaw due to their size and needing to cut sideways. A future build is plank on frame but I can't really justify a bandsaw or table saw just for that. I've also managed without a pillar drill so far but will probably get one of those. Trouble is I've got a number of hobbies, some of them quite expensive and have to restrain myself!

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 05, 2020, 05:08:09 pm
Hi Chris


First real test for the bandsaw will be the new Saxboards, I did have a play with it over the weekend, its pretty quiet and well made.


Really enjoying this build, so thought I'd splash out as I plan to get more use out of it in future.


And I have a wife to keep me restrained....


 %)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on October 05, 2020, 05:19:35 pm
As do I, who has access to my credit card spending. Probably a good job!

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Koinonia on October 07, 2020, 04:54:04 pm
Following this blog with great interest.  Thought you might like the following to save 28gm Just Like That as Tommy Cooper would say.  Instead of using the Amati ply for the cushions in the forward access, I'm using sponge cut from a washing up sponge which I will cover with faux leather.  On pictures of the real boat the cushions are much thicker.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 07, 2020, 05:25:09 pm
Hi Koinonia


Are you building the Riva too...?  What stage are you at..?


And agreed about the seats / cushions, I have used the Amati ply but have drilled it out to halve its weight. Externally, I've only worked on the sundeck cushion so far, but plan to reconstruct all the seating with balsa, foam and faux leather.  The large piece of ply under the cushion has been lightened:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/22/IMG_1274-Custom.jpg)


The original from Amati was over 90g, the new one is just over 30g.


I've just been working on the rear hatch, getting the fit right and installing mahogany to cover the ply edges...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/07/IMG_1530-Custom.jpg)


And here the rear hatch is in place:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/07/IMG_1529-Custom.jpg)


It's ready for the inlay now.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Koinonia on October 07, 2020, 05:33:05 pm
Yes, have joined from the other blog.  Yes am building the Amati Riva.  Just about to start the first planking, decided not to go with extra chine width, but am working hard to reduce weight as much as poss.  Will be using the Amati transmission kit and would appreciate thoughts on this.  I would show pics if I knew how to upload!
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 07, 2020, 06:06:18 pm
Hi Koinonia


Just PM'd re images and getting set up.


Regarding the Amati hardware kit, on the plus side it's all going to fit.  On the downside I think it's a bit heavy, I think I recall that the motors are over 200g each, a lot of builders replace the brushed motors with brushless and upgraded ESCs.


There's also this hardware kit:


https://www.krickshop.de/Accessories-Spare-Parts/Accessories-for-Ship-Models/Accessories-for-special-Shipmodels/Motorisierungssatz-ital-Sportboot-25035.htm?shop=krick_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=25036&p=197&rdeocl=1&rdetpl=searchpage&rdebox=box1 (https://www.krickshop.de/Accessories-Spare-Parts/Accessories-for-Ship-Models/Accessories-for-special-Shipmodels/Motorisierungssatz-ital-Sportboot-25035.htm?shop=krick_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=25036&p=197&rdeocl=1&rdetpl=searchpage&rdebox=box1)


Whatever you decide I'm sure it'll be a great and rewarding build.  Welcome..!


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Koinonia on October 07, 2020, 08:05:49 pm
First go using washing up sponges for cushions.  Hope pics load {:-{
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 09, 2020, 05:29:54 pm
Afternoon All


Good to see your build Koinonia, and the swiss cheese approach to Riva building..!


I've used this for the cushions, its a nice even 4mm thick:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0044UZWL4 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0044UZWL4)


I'm thinking of using it around the motors too toward the end of the build.  I'm using brushless motors and I'd like to suppress the whine...


I've progressed with the rear hatch, the 1x1mm went on first:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/09/IMG_1531-Custom.jpg)
I got the fit to the deck ply:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/09/IMG_1532-Custom.jpg)


Then started on the inlay:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/09/IMG_1533-Custom.jpg)


And it's all in...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/09/IMG_1534-Custom.jpg)


So far so good, and pleased that the inlay is symmetrical.  A couple of small gaps that I'll need a magnifying glass to fill...  Then sand flush.  Then a final shaping of the stern.


After that I think it's a move back to the bow to get the Saxboards, Musetto and Cutwater fit sorted.


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Koinonia on October 09, 2020, 07:56:23 pm
Swiss cheese rules ok.  Basic weight as is about 810gm.  Weight of Amati 540 brushed motor is 150gm, and total of 2 motors, brackets, shafts, gears and props 470gm. You have found a very suitable solution to the cushion dilemma.   
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 10, 2020, 11:06:33 am
Morning All


Couple of hours on the Riva this morning, rear hatch I'm finding a challenge. The fit has to be really good to avoid drawing the eye to errors, its the depth of the hatch, the edges, and the limitations for sanding the deck flush as its made from ply with a light coloured core....  Why Amati, why do it..?!?  The top mahogany layer is so thin... Just showing it sandpaper exposes the core.


Anyway, this is as good as I can get it at the moment:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/10/IMG_1538-Custom.jpg)


Cream slipway is just to see what it looks like, I built in a thin gap under the mahogany sides of the slipway to allow a good edge (thanks for the tip on that Andy, noticed that on your build...)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/10/IMG_1537-Custom.jpg)


Overall effect is coming along nicely I think:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/10/IMG_1540-Custom.jpg)


Next week will be back to the bow.
Good weekend to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 12, 2020, 11:14:43 am
Morning All



Been giving thought to the saxboards over the weekend.  There are a couple of issues (same issues documented in other build logs):


1. The Amati kit seems to show the chrome musetto fitting flush to the deck, and has slab sides that then butt up to the saxboards.
2. But the saxboards are higher than the slab side of the musetto. Maybe one is supposed to sand / shape the saxboards to the musetto height.
3. It gets worse, as the real boat (as UKMike points out) has the musetto appearing to sit on the saxboards, like this:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/12/Musetto.jpg)


And that appears to be the ideal position as there's a clear run between the musettos rope guides and the cleat that will be on the deck.  With the musetto flush to the deck the anchor hatch would be fouled by an anchor line.


4. But the shape of the Amati musetto when assembled makes this pretty much impossible, it's just a different shape, flatter.
5. I know that Andy (Taranis) has gone some way to raising the musetto by adding a layer of ply between the musetto and the deck. I've done the same in the next pic, and added a section of chrome trim on the port side in the position it will eventually be to cover he hull / deck join:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/12/IMG_1546-Custom.jpg)


So, I don't think the Amati musetto can go too much higher as it will leave the chrome rubbing strip too low, and that position is fixed by the deck join..


I have to cut out new saxboards anyway as the supplied versions are radically different colours.  I'm thinking to extend the lower saxboard in length so it sits under the musetto, then shape it when its in place angling it down toward the bow a shade.  The aim being to make the Musetto appear a little higher on the deck.  Then shape the saxboards so they match the musetto. I'll try it and dry fit it to see if it works.


Final thing, to those that have gone before...  Have I got this the right way around, the thin saxboard is the lower of the pair, and the aim is to produce a small overhang..?  Amati instructions say '...Superimposed saxboards form a slot between deck and upper saxboard...'


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/12/IMG_1541-Custom.jpg)


I think Amati have fudged the bow, its up the the builder to figure out a solution.


Best regards to all
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on October 12, 2020, 11:19:11 am
Fudge yes that's a good description of Amati  {-) 



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Koinonia on October 12, 2020, 04:13:31 pm
I have found in my limited experience getting the bow right is probably the hardest part of the model.  Thanks for the heads up on this.  I'm at the first planking stage and concerned about the shape at the bow.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 13, 2020, 02:02:32 pm
Agreed that the bow needs precision and patience in preparing and during the planking.  I found that it needed a lot of care when sanding the frames, I kept testing with a length of plank that the frame was sanded to offer a flat face to the plank.  A section of pool noodle wrapped in sandpaper about a foot long so it spanned a number of frames was very helpful. I used 120 grit followed by 240.


I've been playing with my new toy today, the Proxxon bandsaw.  And created a new set of Saxboards:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/13/IMG_1547-Custom.jpg)


Great piece of kit, I glued two 3mm mahogany panels together (outside the footprint of the saxboards...) then ran them through the bandsaw to create a symmetrical pair:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/13/IMG_1548-Custom.jpg)


And these have the extra length to support the Musetto:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/13/IMG_1549-Custom.jpg)


The Musetto needs to be reshaped a shade, as does the woodwork around to bow to get a good fit, I think its good enough now to install them and finish in place.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/13/IMG_1551-Custom.jpg)


The upper edge of the saxboard is now same height as the musetto so can be reduced in height a shade when finishing so the musetto appears to be sitting on the saxboard.  Thats the aim...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/13/IMG_1552-Custom.jpg)


Here with a section of the chrome trim held roughly in place too:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/13/IMG_1554-Custom.jpg)


Best regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on October 13, 2020, 05:00:24 pm
Very nice work and a great solution to your problem  :-))   now youíve a band saw what your tool collection grow  %%
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 13, 2020, 06:03:51 pm
Hey Mark


Yes....  I'm feeling in urgent need of a disc sander right now...


Wife keeps saying '...but its a kit, why do you need all these tools..?'


 {:-{
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 16, 2020, 12:18:04 pm
Afternoon All


Been working on the saxboards this week, another challenging part of the build... (For me.)


Took me a while to visualise in my head what I was trying to achieve. I've aimed to shape the lower part of the saxboard to the deck shape, to end up with the top surface pretty much horizontal across the beam.


Started out bonding the two layers:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/16/IMG_1555-Custom.jpg)


Outer edges aligned, so there's a notch on the inner edge:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/16/IMG_1556-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/16/IMG_1557-Custom.jpg)


Then its case of profiling the lower edge to the deck shape:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/16/IMG_1558-Custom.jpg)


And once there's no gap visible between deck and saxboard, reach for the glue / clamps and I needed masking tape too to get the shape held...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/16/IMG_1561-Custom.jpg)


(Should have mentioned, I kept testing the bow cutout for the musetto, its deliberately just too small at this stage to allow final positioning.)


Both saxboards in place, and edge tidied up:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/16/IMG_1563-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/16/IMG_1564-Custom.jpg)


Then marked out a limit for the rounding to be applied to the outer edge of the saxboards:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/16/IMG_1565-Custom.jpg)


Followed by edge sanding and filling a couple of areas around the bow and edge where the saxboard meets the deck:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/16/IMG_1566-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/16/IMG_1567-Custom.jpg)


Hoping to get a final fit sorted for the musetto later, if I do I'll post the result.


One other event this week, I had a modest dremel multi tool clone from Amazon, it died on Wednesday, so as Mark predicted...  A Proxxon 230/E is now on order...


Best regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on October 16, 2020, 12:41:55 pm
Glad you're enjoying your new toy, soon to be toys! Maybe I'll get a band saw at some point!

The bow looks to be coming together nicely now, great workmanship.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Koinonia on October 16, 2020, 02:38:06 pm
Looking very good.  Am still on first planking. :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 21, 2020, 12:57:24 pm
Afternoon All


Slow progress over past few days... But I do have a new toy:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/21/IMG_1568-Custom.jpg)


Picked up the clamp for it too, very sturdy:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/21/IMG_1570-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/21/IMG_1569-Custom.jpg)


Its really quiet, variable speed and good to grip.  Very pleased so far.


Have just placed an order for the flexi shaft as I need to reach a few awkward areas on the build.


I've been getting the musetto placed so the multi tool came in very useful.


Took a while but seems OK, just dry fit for now.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/21/IMG_1572-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/21/IMG_1574-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/21/IMG_1573-Custom.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on October 21, 2020, 04:29:03 pm
Must dig mine out, I think it's the same model. Bought it at the Warwick show 3 years as wanted something to hold very small drills - it hasn't seen the light of day since! That clamp looks a useful addition.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Koinonia on October 21, 2020, 05:29:43 pm
We are always finding new gadgets and gismos.  Still rely on the good ol files and sandpaper. Steadily working on planking :-)) :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 22, 2020, 06:09:31 pm
Afternoon All


Been looking again at the fit of the Musetto, pics to follow.


And been looking at the dashboard...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/22/IMG_1575-Custom.jpg)


Couldn't resist connecting it up...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/22/IMG_1577-Custom.jpg)


I sense another challenge coming up.


There's a lot of nice mahogany around, but just above the dash you may see the edge of some ply, with a white core.  So I'm thinking of edging that ply with a strip of mahogany, to avoid the white core.


Also, around the port side of the dash, the fit of the top of the dash is dire.  Needs a bit of work to get it improved, thats Friday sorted.


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on October 23, 2020, 03:27:51 pm
Here you go David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 23, 2020, 10:35:57 pm
Evening Mike


Thanks for these pics of your larger Aquarama. I'm going to look at what I need to do to get that lip over the top of the dashboard, together with a smoother result than I think the Amati kit pieces allow.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on October 23, 2020, 11:01:54 pm
Evening David.


Did you understand the dash easy  mounting ?
Although it might not work as you have modified the mounting to accommodate the instrument backlighting.


Let me know if you need clarification, but looking at the poor photos maybe I couldn't grasp it myself.😕😕


Keep well.


Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on October 23, 2020, 11:15:57 pm
I haven't got any white showing. I used a bit of scrap to fill the right hand end of the binnacle


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-d39JDPh/0/X3/i-d39JDPh-X3.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MSt4sHv/0/X2/i-MSt4sHv-X2.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 24, 2020, 01:01:30 pm
Afternoon Both


Thanks for the pics and comments. Rookie error on my part I think with the ply, it just needs to sit back a shade then raise the mahogany dash.  :embarrassed:  Not the first error and won't be the last I'm sure.  :-))


David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 27, 2020, 09:58:57 am
Morning All


Been a bit busy in the 1:1 world, but some progress at 1:10...


Final new toy til Christmas:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1594-Custom.jpg)


Pleased with the flexi shaft so far, gets into places that the main tool (230/E) can't. Main tool has plenty of power to drive the flexi shaft so very happy with the combination.


I've reworked the Musetto slightly, its now a little higher and I've added a bridging piece between the saxboards, so they appear more like the full size boat, and the musetto appears to sit on the saxboards, still dry fit until I'm happy with it:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/23/IMG_1579-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/23/IMG_1581-Custom.jpg)


And back to the dashboard top piece, I want to see if I can improve on the kit parts, the dash is a gorgeous part of the boat, the dash top less so in my opinion as it's supplied in two parts.  So I've set out to make it in one piece (and to give the bandsaw an outing...):


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1585-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1586-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1589-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1590-Custom.jpg)


It's not fully trimmed to size til I put a curve on it, this is the kit parts in position:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1591-Custom.jpg)


And my version in place, aims are to avoid the binnacle joint being visible, and to give a more pronounced overhang across the whole dash and specifically the binnacle over the helm position:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1592-Custom.jpg)


I need to get the curve / fit right, and forgot to mention that I used my little router table to machine out the underside of the binnacle:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1596-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1595-Custom.jpg)


This, is the real thing that I'm trying to get closer to...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/Dash3.jpg)


Piece is being soaked and curved at the moment, will post an update with the results.


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on October 27, 2020, 03:59:18 pm
Hi David.

Super work, hope that the Mahogany softens enough for the bending, it doesn't soften very easily.

Don't forget that the Dashboard doesn't sit upright, although you probably have that in hand.

Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 27, 2020, 06:13:09 pm
Evening Mike


Thanks for that. A couple of more pics before close of play:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1597-Custom.jpg)


A little more work required at the port side, otherwise quite pleased with the outcome.  Haven't snapped it so far...  Soaked it and clamped it to a curve for the afternoon, seems OK.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1598-Custom.jpg)


I think next is to get the mahogany ply parts to left and right of the dash (on the deck above) in place so I can go for a final fit. Plan is to soak then press into place with a former (rubber hosepipe) of same radius as the curve, clamp then let them dry fully.  Then clamp, bond and trim.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/10/27/IMG_1600-Custom.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 03, 2020, 12:43:17 pm
Afternoon All


Couple of areas of progress to report.


I've tweaked the bow behind the musetto, bonded the saxboard 'bridge' and also the anchor hatch.  In two minds whether to try to create a new musetto, I plan a few other parts that will need chroming, we'll see.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1604-Custom.jpg)


Also repositioned the ESCs to get them out of the way, added a surface mount XT60 socket to avoid trailing wires.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1603-Custom.jpg)


Main work has been with the dashboard and surround.  This is the pair of panels that sit to the left and right of the dash, soaked and being curved around a former.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1601-Custom.jpg)


And clamped into place.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1602-Custom.jpg)


Trimmed and finished with a small piece of mahogany to hide the ply fully.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1607-Custom.jpg)


Filled in the two areas forward of the dash with some spare ply, helps me with maintaining the dash curve as I need it to be self supporting, I need to have the dash removable in case of electrical issues, so not a stressed part of the structure.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1605-Custom.jpg)


The dash is located firmly at three points (left, right and centre), so I've added a couple of small magnets to the back of the dash, and a metal plate on the bulkhead...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1619-Custom.jpg)


Top panel being bonded to the deck:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1620-Custom.jpg)


Some masking ready for the dash top / binnacle:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1623-Custom.jpg)


Glued and clamped:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1624-Custom.jpg)


And the result, all elements fixed in place, here with no dash:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1625-Custom.jpg)


Here with the dash held by the magnets:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1626-Custom.jpg)


And finally the mahogany dash:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1627-Custom.jpg)
[size=78%] [/size]
Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 03, 2020, 02:14:50 pm
I meant to add a couple of pics from the top to show the revised dash top / binnacle in place:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1628-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1630-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/03/IMG_1634-Custom.jpg)


I'm thinking that I may be getting close to applying a thinned Z-Poxy coat to get the mahogany sealed.


Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on November 03, 2020, 03:43:50 pm
Afternoon David.


The Musetto looks good now, the mods have done the trick, well worth the extra effort.


Just a thought, whilst looking at a previous picture showing the hidden away ESC and battery connector, I would certainly make sure that it was impossible for even the tiniest amount of water could to get into that connector, the consequences don't even bare thinking about.


Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 03, 2020, 05:21:52 pm
Hi Mike


Thanks for that, and fair point about the possible water ingress, I hadn't thought that through... The connector is slightly outboard of the sundeck joint, and the sundeck is a good fit but I'll enhance it with a thin gasket / seal to make sure.


Hope all's well with you.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: JimG on November 03, 2020, 07:16:47 pm
Just a thought, whilst looking at a previous picture showing the hidden away ESC and battery connector, I would certainly make sure that it was impossible for even the tiniest amount of water could to get into that connector, the consequences don't even bare thinking about.


Mike.
Unless you are sailing in salt water there will be no consequence if water gets into the connector. Normal pond water has a very poor conductivity so will not short out the connector. This is why brushed motors can be run when fully immersed in water with the only problem being the iron in the armature and the steel case rusting. Used to cool down hot NiCd batteries after fast charging by dunking them in the pond, connectors and all.
Jim
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on November 03, 2020, 09:21:35 pm
Unless you are sailing in salt water there will be no consequence if water gets into the connector. Normal pond water has a very poor conductivity so will not short out the connector. This is why brushed motors can be run when fully immersed in water with the only problem being the iron in the armature and the steel case rusting. Used to cool down hot NiCd batteries after fast charging by dunking them in the pond, connectors and all.
Jim
Jim.

The motor type is irrelevant, the battery type is. I referred to David's setup, i.e. high discharge Lithium batteries, which can discharge massive amounts power,instantly, unlike Nicad and Hydride which are relatively low maximum discharge when compared to Lithium. The fact that the water will most likely be of the fresh type will not stop this happening, slow it down a little, maybe. I know that first hand and the results can be disastrous.
If the possibility of water ingress of any type can be eliminated completely then the situation will not exist.

This build by David is of such a very high standard that it isn't worth taking any chances and I'm sure that he won't risk it.

Remember the saying, "if it can it will".

No doubt other people will disagree but I've seen this happen on more than one occasion.

Mike.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: JimG on November 04, 2020, 11:51:43 am
Mike I know all about LiPo batteries and their ability to give high currents. I also do model flying and use up to 6S LiPos that need special anti spark plugs to stop sparking when plugged into an esc. As someone who has been trained in science I don't believe in taking other peoples ideas for granted, I do a practical experiment to check things out. I've just taken a 3S 8000mA pack and connected it to a wattmeter, the output from the this was put straight into a glass of tapwater making sure there were exposed contacts on the plug. The wattmeter showed no current flowing as expected, the meter is calibrated to the nearest 0.1A so there may have been a current less than 0.05A which would not show up. So a practical test shows there to be no problems with a few drops of water in a plug. ( I was unable to try this out with one of the 6S packs as they use an XT90 connection while the wattmeter is XT60)
Jim
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on November 04, 2020, 12:33:08 pm
Jim.


This is not the place to discuss the pros and cons of batteries. It's Davids Riva build, let's not hijack it.
You could always start a new one in a more appropriate section.


Sorry about this David.


Mike.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 04, 2020, 01:42:04 pm
Afternoon All


Thanks for the comments, will be working hard to keep the water on the outside to avoid confirming smoke or no smoke..!


Onto the next issue.  Not 100% what its called, I'd have thought it was a 'rubbing strip', Amati seem to call it a 'fender', whatever it's call, the wood supplied in the kit to attach to the sides of the hull is not mahogany, and more to the point its not mahogany coloured...  Its quite lightweight, and its grey when compared to the warm tones of the mahogany planks, and as it's a varnished part this matters:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/04/IMG_1635-Custom.jpg)


So I'm thinking another outing for the bandsaw, to create new pieces from real mahogany:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/04/IMG_1636-Custom.jpg)




The supplied wood is 5mm x 5mm, this seems a bit odd too as images of the full sized boat show a far less symmetrical shape, so I'm thinking maybe to try 3 or 4mm mahogany to get closer to the correct aspect:




(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/04/Rubbing-Strip.jpg)


Another point shown on the image above is that I'd have expected the kit to have a stern light, circled above.  I couldn't find it in the (otherwise comprehensive) fittings set, and it's not on the plans... Pretty sure I've seen this on a couple of other build logs, so either it's a difference in kit versions, or I need a new prescription from the opticians...


Best regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on November 04, 2020, 04:27:37 pm
Thatís lovely work David especially on the modified dash  :-))   The wood supplied looks a bit like walnut itís that kind of colour but I could be wrong. Keep the updates coming  O0
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 06, 2020, 05:08:28 pm
Afternoon All

Hi Mark, thanks for that.

I've made some progress creating new side 'fenders'...

Supplied wood is 5x5mm, I want to make them slightly thinner vertically, and slightly wider, aiming for 4x7mm.

Only had 2mm stock to hand, so here's the start point:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/IMG_1637-Custom.jpg)

Then glued and clamped to get to 4mm, there'll be chrome trim along the joint:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/IMG_1638-Custom.jpg)

Then I've marked out the fender strips, used some masking tape to stop them bonding, but left room to glue on the part that will be cut off.

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/IMG_1647-Custom.jpg)

The shaped what will be the outer face on the bandsaw:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/IMG_1649-Custom.jpg)

Then parted off down the straight (hull side) edge, so two identical shaped pieces:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/IMG_1654-Custom.jpg)

And happy with the shape against the hull, little trimming, and then good to attach:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/IMG_1653-Custom.jpg)

Also been busy starting to make up a ski pole...

This is the real thing:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/Ski-Pole-Custom.jpg)

I'm making it up from 3mm brass tube, I found some with a 1mm wall so strong enough I think.  I need pipe not tube as I intend to run some control lines for the skier though the pole and along the ski line.


I'm making up the top of the ski pole on my small late / milling machine, I have a Clarke CL250M with milling attachment.  I think it's a poor relation to some of the better makes, but I've had it in pieces and am happy that play has been almost eliminated, it's fine on brass, aluminium and engineering plastics.

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/IMG_1651-Custom.jpg)

So here's the start of the pole top:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/IMG_1639-Custom.jpg)

Then into the mill to square it off and drill the tow eye:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/IMG_1644-Custom.jpg)

And into the vice for finishing, I've not fully parted it off yet as it'll make it tricky to hold.

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/IMG_1646-Custom.jpg)

'Pole' just dry fit for now.

That my Friday update.  Great weekend to all. (In a socially distanced way of course...)
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 09, 2020, 05:57:38 pm
Afternoon All


More progress with the Ski pole:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/09/IMG_1657-Custom.jpg)


And here is the top piece, parted off and on the pole:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/09/IMG_1658-Custom.jpg)


Silver soldered and polished:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/09/IMG_1660-Custom.jpg)


I'm reasonably happy with the shape compared to the original:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/06/Ski-Pole-Custom.jpg)


Here it is in place:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/09/IMG_1661-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/09/IMG_1662-Custom.jpg)


The pole is removable, there's a brass tube and pin to retain the pole at the correct height, and to stop it rotating.  I need to reinforce and epoxy the tube in, also to get the guides in place for the control lines. I need to think about how to cap the tube when the pole is not being used.  And of course the pole needs to be chromed, I'll wait til later in the build to see if anything else needs chroming.


Regards to all
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 09, 2020, 06:00:53 pm
And one picture of the 'under development' skis...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/09/IMG_1663-Custom.jpg)


 :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 10, 2020, 03:55:47 pm
Afternoon All


Starting to look like a boat:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/10/IMG_1664-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/10/IMG_1665-Custom.jpg)


Have been getting the waterline worked out as per the plans:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/10/IMG_1669-Custom.jpg)


Mainly so that I can attach the rubbing strips / fenders:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/10/IMG_1671-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/10/IMG_1673-Custom.jpg)


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on November 10, 2020, 09:41:02 pm
Reasonably happy, you should be very happy!

When not in use could the hole be fitted with a short length of tube capped with a larger diameter disc sitting  flush on the deck with maybe a ring for lifting out or a rectangular cap with ends rising to a point i.e. a triangle on end but with a bit of Riva flair designed in? Maybe curve the front leg of the triangle or just have that leg? Hope this makes some sense!


Or a flat triangular cap with a vertical ring on the top! The list goes on!

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 11, 2020, 10:15:58 am
Morning Chris


Yes, I think you're right, effectively a blanking plate, a slightly domed chrome cap held in place by same pin that holds the ski pole in place. Then use one or the other depending on the outing.  That's how Riva deal with other 'caps'.


Have added the other rubbing strip / fender this morning.  Then an overall rub down and tidy, so that I can get the thinned epoxy coat on to seal everything so far.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 13, 2020, 11:21:40 am
Morning All


Big day today, and its only just gone 1100...


This was the Aquarama at 0930:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/13/IMG_1681-Custom.jpg)


Rubbed down, then a de dust with some alcohol, and this was the boat at 1030:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/13/IMG_1682-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/13/IMG_1683-Custom.jpg)


After a thinned coat of Z-Poxy resin to seal.  I've taken out the rear slipway / deck now to resin underneath it, now letting it all dry.


 :-))


Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on November 13, 2020, 03:34:21 pm
Looking great David.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 19, 2020, 10:15:09 am
Morning All


Well, first coat of varnish went on a couple of days ago, then I realised why Mike built a jig to be able to rotate the hull...


So, sunglasses on please...  Here's the dangerous reflections from the first coat...   ok2


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/19/IMG_1685-Custom.jpg)


And here's the construction of a stand under way, I use these aluminium extrusions for some other work, so had some spare to hand:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/19/IMG_1688-Custom.jpg)


It's great for building 'one offs', joints use special connectors that make a rock solid structure.  Plan is to construct the outer frame, then an inner cradle that will clamp on the boats keel (from the inside) and allow rotation like a rotisserie, then clamped at any angle.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/19/IMG_1689-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/19/IMG_1690-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/19/IMG_1691-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/19/IMG_1692-Custom.jpg)


Should have it ready later today or tomorrow and will post the outcome...


Regards to all
DAvid.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 20, 2020, 05:26:37 pm
Afternoon All


The Aquarama Rotisserie is up and running:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/20/IMG_1693-Custom.jpg)


There are two foam pads (at the top in the pic above) that clamp around the keel where its exposed internally, with a 6mm pin pushed through to ensure it doesn't slip... Already had big holes in the keel so no additional drilling of the boat needed.


And here it is with the boat attached:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/20/IMG_1697-Custom.jpg)


And rotated 90į:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/20/IMG_1696-Custom.jpg)


And another 90į:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/20/IMG_1695-Custom.jpg)


And one from the bow:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/20/IMG_1698-Custom.jpg)


I've put some friction material on the two points of rotation, so loosen off the nuts to rotate the boat, tighten to clamp in any position.  Aim is to allow varnishing / light sanding of any surface, good access and keep it in place while curing while avoiding contact of any surface with anything else...


It just happens that 100cm lengths of the extrusion work well for this build.  It would be quite straightforward to extend for a larger hull.  Maybe the 1/7th Aquarama...


A couple of coats of varnish, then install shafts and rudder tubes is my current plan.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on November 20, 2020, 06:19:45 pm
Impressed David  8) 
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 20, 2020, 10:12:46 pm
Evening Andy


Thanks for that. Looking forward to seeing how it works out for varnishing.


Any plans to restart your aquarama build any time soon..?


Best regards
David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on November 20, 2020, 10:49:17 pm
No time soon David but I am following your work  :-))  The tug is my whole focus just now through to Spring when I hope to fire up the Shannon as soon as paint spraying weather arrives. Keep up the great work I expect you will finish before me  :-)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on November 21, 2020, 09:53:24 am
Wow thats dedication that is David!  Thats a great jig you have made  O0
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 21, 2020, 02:42:53 pm
Well thanks Mark. Its down to the high standards that I see on this forum that make me want to do the very best that I can.  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on November 21, 2020, 03:27:54 pm
Same here David there's nothing like pushing each other forward  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 23, 2020, 11:02:32 am
Morning All


Did manage some time on Saturday to get first coat of varnish on, I'm pleased with the rig, it allowed a full coat to be applied in one session.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/23/IMG_1699-Custom.jpg)


This shows the forward grip on the keel:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/23/IMG_1702-Custom.jpg)


And the rear, with the 'insurance' pin... :


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/23/IMG_1703-Custom.jpg)


First coat on the forward deck:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/23/IMG_1704-Custom.jpg)


For better or for worse, I'm using 10% thinned 'International Original' polyurethane varnish. On my test pieces I found it quite straightforward to use and quite tolerant to temperature / humidity. And importantly, high gloss with a warm amber tint that I like.

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/23/IMG_1706-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/23/IMG_1709-Custom.jpg)


First coat is fully cured this morning, so will be putting another coat on today.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on November 23, 2020, 11:18:50 pm
Will look fantastic once finished. I use International as well, but the Schooner tung oil which I describe as giving a light honey colour that I like as well.

And love the jig.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 24, 2020, 03:36:20 am
 
Kudos on the varnish job.
Kudos on the rotating rig!   :o
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 24, 2020, 12:47:47 pm
Afternoon All


Thanks for the comments Martyn / Chris.  :-))


I've got a couple of coats of varnish on, its dry, but I want to give it another 24 hours to cure before sanding it back.  So started to look at the shafts and specifically the mounting and securing of the P brackets, still dry fit at the moment:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/24/IMG_1713-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/24/IMG_1715-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/24/IMG_1719-Custom.jpg)


I'm not to happy with the ply that Amati have used on the deck, I'll upload a pic on the next run.  The mahogany is just too thin, the middle lighter core gets exposed to easily, and this has happened in a couple of areas near the stern.  If I get around to the 1/7 build I think best approach would be to use a ply skin, then plank it.  Or as some other forum folks have done, prepare planked panels.  I think to try to do that to this build now would be too destructive...


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 30, 2020, 05:00:57 pm
Afternoon All


Here's the issue I'm having with the thin ply layer...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/30/IMG_1734-Custom.jpg)


I'm getting further into the varnishing than anticipated.  I'd thought a couple of coats, then stop and do some more fitting out, then finish the varnishing.


But to get the finish I'm trying for I'm going with thinner coats that are wet sanded, so it's taking longer to build up.  I'm finding inclusions (dust, or whatever they are...) are a problem.  This is after filtering the varnish and thinners, cleaning brush again before use, wiping down hull with a tack rag, and so on...  The inclusions disappear with wet 3000 grit, so I'm thinking to do just that, then use some Farcela G10 cutting compound, then carnauba wax to get the gloss back...  I'll create a test piece and post result.  So here's the hull after cutting back with wet 400 grit:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/30/IMG_1726-Custom.jpg)


Then wet 1000 grit, I'm using quite firm foam as a block, so some low points are being exposed:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/30/IMG_1730-Custom.jpg)


And then with another thin coat applied:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/11/30/IMG_1738-Custom.jpg)


So I'm thinking to build up a couple of more coats like this, so I can cut back to smooth out the low / high points, then just carry on with the test piece to check the result with G10 / wax, and get on with fitting out the hull.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on November 30, 2020, 06:05:46 pm
Thatís real dedication for the perfect finish David and I think itís looking amazing  O0
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on December 17, 2020, 04:41:20 pm
Afternoon All


Been busy with a family wedding (daughter) over past few weeks, so not had too much to report.  I have been adding varnish, I'd say about 6 thin coats at the moment, with some cutting back too.  Also been on a (wife induced) mission to tidy up a little...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/17/IMG_1740-Custom.jpg)


Here's the rig upended so that the stern can get some attention too:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/17/IMG_1741-Custom.jpg)


I'm kind of pleased where the varnish is right now.  I remain frustrated by inclusions.  Also note for future builds, gaps of any size in the planking will be punished at this stage, it can't be assumed that the varnish will fill.  Also, any traces of glue have to be fully removed, the varnish exposes any issues...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/17/IMG_1743-Custom.jpg)


I've bought myself an early Christmas present, a Proxxon WP/E Polisher. I think once the varnish is built up the polisher will help get the required finish, we'll see.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Dave on December 18, 2020, 08:26:02 am
That is looking excellent David  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on December 22, 2020, 06:04:34 pm
Hi Dave


Thanks for that, very kind.


Been adding a few more coats of varnish, it's starting to look really deep now, very pleased. And while I can't do much else with the hull, I've been playing with an Arduino based sound system.


Full thread is here: https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,66075.0.html (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,66075.0.html)


First bench test is here: https://youtu.be/oDKfcFO7rvw (https://youtu.be/oDKfcFO7rvw)


This is based on the sound sample of a full sized Aquarama startup, idle and run. Overall cost so far, about £15.00...  :-))


(Not including the money spent on the commercial offerings that are now in the bin...  :embarrassed: )


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 07, 2021, 05:31:57 pm
Afternoon All


First update in a while as building has slowed a shade over Christmas.


I've been playing with my new Christmas present...  An FrSky QX7S TX and R8Pro RX, took a while to get head around the programming, but it's so capable and rewarding once understood.


This is where I am at the moment:


https://youtu.be/MLLzn5WOcZI (https://youtu.be/MLLzn5WOcZI)


And re the build, some progress on getting the dash together, bonding the mahogany to the backing ply:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/07/20210107_125918-Custom.jpg)


Getting the fit sorted, its removable, held in by magnets:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/07/20210107_162718-Custom.jpg)


And then the dials in place:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/07/20210107_171021-Custom.jpg)


Little bit of the fit needs attention still, but coming on.


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on January 07, 2021, 07:09:48 pm
That is just gorgeous - your attention to detail is admirable  8)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on January 07, 2021, 10:10:32 pm
So, apart from an impressive build David

......the turntable is probably 8/10,
......the LED lighting [newer additions from 20th November 2020?] about 9/10....
......however you have no excuse for being late for Dinner, with Father Time looking over you @ 10/10  O0


Looking forward to each new posting............. Derek



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 08, 2021, 05:32:40 pm
Haha... Sounds like my old school report... 'Could do better...'

The LED lighting is part of my day job, but given lockdown.... Well they're getting good use now too.

More varnishing followed by cutting back.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/08/PSX_20210108_172244.jpg)




(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/08/PSX_20210108_172400.jpg)


Down to 1000 grit and fine compound now.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 09, 2021, 05:47:20 pm
Evening All


Finished latest cutting back:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/09/PSX_20210109_174201.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/09/PSX_20210109_174226.jpg)


Another coat of varnish tomorrow.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on January 09, 2021, 10:45:44 pm
David..possibly missed this, but have you coated all wooden internals with an epoxy or varnish?


What is the popular view?....do you seal in the nominal humidity % content & hence lock in that value, so any appreciable change in ambient humidity would not cause an issue


The reason I ask is some years ago, similar sized Riviera [Riva?] models from Viet-Nam whilst looking with absolute detail 'and gloss' ...when imported to the USA?....started splitting at internal hull joints, which propagated to the external surfaces at the hull joints 


The popular thought or view on the cracking was due to a change in the moisture level in the wood itself and not a poorly sized or constructed fabrication method

Other Members may relate to this from the dim past, as I believe the subject was posted here on MBM [although not this specific thread].....however yes, a very logical posting from John WE [bluebird]

https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13818.msg146031.html#msg146031 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13818.msg146031.html#msg146031)


Derek

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 10, 2021, 10:32:53 am
Interesting topic Derek, and a good balanced view from John (Bluebird).


I suspect that you're correct that its mainly down to individuals experience and understanding of the issues. So ask 10 folks and you'll get 10 different rational.


Personally I did seal the interior with thinned Z Poxy finishing resin. Aim was to soak it into the wood. I then applied a second less thinned coat to get a more gloss (smoother, easier to wipe clean) finish. I treated the exterior hull and deck in the same way and used it as a basis for varnish.


To me it seems sensible to get the wood to take up the sealing coat, and from both sides. Adds strength too.


I do keep the temperature stable in my workshop space, and no real humidity issues. The wood spent 6 months in that state before being sealed. So I don't think I've sealed in much moisture, I think that's what could cause a problem. And could be the source of of the cracking issues with the Vietnamese built boats, given the humidity over there, then ship the boat to a less humid place. Asking for trouble in my view.


This is my first wooden hull build in 50 years... and as my earlier boats had to be proofed against diesel and glow fuel, its just a bit of habit too, to seal the interior...


Whether I've got it right...  Watch this space...!


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 12, 2021, 05:36:31 pm
Afternoon All


Progress with rear hatch:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/12/20210112_172049-Custom.jpg)


And I think final coat of varnish...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/12/20210112_171653-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/12/20210112_171722-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/12/20210112_171738-Custom.jpg)


There were a few minor  'undulations' on the earlier round of cutting back, I think these should now be improved.  Once cured I'll cut back again, I'm thinking to then leave the hull 'matt' for a while while I get the shafts and rudders in, maybe the white paint on the hull too, then polish.


The varnishing stage does seem to have taken a loooonnng time to build up the coats.  I've made the coats thinner, I think there are 8 or 9 coats on the boat now.  I've not done this building up coats before but have been inspired by UKMikes results, that's the benchmark, if I can get close, I'll be happy.


On the last round of cutting back the 'glass like' finish could start to be seen, super smooth.


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on January 12, 2021, 05:52:09 pm
That looks stunning!  Honestly I would be scared to put it on the water but I bet its going to look amazing going flat out.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on January 12, 2021, 07:57:37 pm
Well yes Mark T...all of the superlatives agreed, however I think she will look fast just still in the water  O0


This LED lighting is an excellent aid to production ....just floods the work area with lightness, and little shadow


Interestingly David.......you say thinned coats of the Varnish we spoke of some time back, but what is the drying/curing time duration you are using especially with the heat created with the Proxxon sander/polisher?


Derek
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 12, 2021, 08:20:53 pm
Thanks for the positive comments chaps.  :-))


If I'm just adding a coat I'll just wait 24 hours. I'm leaving 4 days or more before cutting back, no issues so far. I'm using the proxxon on a slow setting and water with any abrasive disc. Seems to avoid the paper clogging up, and no issues with heat build up. Also when the surface is wet its possible to see any 'glossy' areas, these are the low points, they can then be worked out. A quick wipe off every now and then. 'Rinse and repeat' as they say... Same with the foam pads and compound. A little water seems to help.


And yes the LED panels really help, they're not a point source so give great overall flat light for the current varnishing task.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 20, 2021, 06:15:43 pm
Afternoon / Evening All


Making progress with a flat varnish finish now.  Have resorted to wiping on a 50/50 thinned layer and not brushed...


And several coats, no inclusions, no brushmarks and flatter:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/20/20210120_145844-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/20/20210120_145933-Custom.jpg)


Have been playing with motors and ESC and radio while varnish dries...


And not too happy with the aggressive startup of the brushless motors (Overlander T3530/14).  Seems to me I made a mistake with the cheaper Shark 30A ESCs.  I have the programming card and have tried the various startup options.  Also having some issues getting the two units synced in terms of where they startup.  I have set their end points... Have I missed something obvious..?


Am considering the FrSky Neuron S 40A ESCs as they seem to have a fully programmable interface via PC, so I can guarantee they are both synced.  Also they seem to push back a load of telemetry without extra sensors...  But not cheap...  £50 each...


Any comments gratefully received.
Thanks
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on January 20, 2021, 06:47:31 pm
Lovely work David
I can only recommend the hobbywing quicrun that I am using myself.
The Punch setting needs to be at minimum.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-NnLfdJV/0/939b8edc/1920/IMG_5016-1920.mp4

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-Ksr5VHm/0/b3453b6e/X3/6C0E2979-A93F-47F7-A485-57037DD8D62D-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 21, 2021, 03:00:50 pm
Hi Andy


Thanks for this, and the video is very interesting / enlightening (I do remember you posting it now you mention it...). Your motor startup speed is so much slower than I'm seeing with my setup, and your motors appear to be very well synced, I'm nowhere near that at the moment...  I've set the ESCs to factory defaults and its made no difference.


So the ESCs you're using, you've reset the punch to minimum, any other tweaks to get them to engage slowly, and to synchronise..?


Thanks and regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on January 21, 2021, 03:12:50 pm
I actually have start mode (punch) set at level 2 of 9, the default is level 5


If yours are not in sync it would indicate to me that the throttle range for each is not set the same.


I would consult the ESC instructions and set each one individually before connecting them together.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 21, 2021, 03:45:15 pm
Agreed re the throttle range.  To calibrate the Shark ESC the unit has to be started with Tx throttle at max, that's fine, but then it has to be told where neutral is in similar way.  And that's fine for single units, but hard to replicate precisely for two.  Next step is to fit the centre spring back to the throttle stick to try to get a consistent neutral position...


Just spoke to Leeds Model Shop (they supplied them) re the Sharks being too vicious on startup, they reckon it's because I'm testing with no load...  Not fully convinced, but will look again...
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on January 21, 2021, 04:23:24 pm
No load is a loser of a theory
As demonstrated mine have no load on them
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 22, 2021, 02:25:46 pm
Agreed re the 'no load'...


I've spoken to Overlander who've very kindly offered to send over a loan of one of their ESCs for me to test with.  This will confirm whether its the ESCs that I have that are at fault I think.  This is my first brushless build so I don't have any spare ESCs laying around.


Also tested my ZTW Shark units with Futaba and FrSky radio systems to make sure it wasn't me being stupid with the FrSky programming. Futaba is even harsher on startup...
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: tsenecal on January 22, 2021, 04:14:32 pm
i would recommend the castle creations mamba micro x if you expect to run fewer than 35 amps, or the castle creations sidewinder (not sidewinder micro) if you plan on pulling more than 35 amps.

either esc will allow full adjustment of pretty much all aspects of their setup.  using two sidewinders in a 31" dumas UTB 41, i was able to adjust ramp up, max throttle, and apply individual curves so that both prop rpms matched across entire range of throttle stick on transmitter.  the setup was required because i purchased two entry level brushless inrunners that had widely differing performance out of the box...  one esc is set for a max throttle of 57%, other is 63%, but props are both running at 3500 rpm with those settings.

Afternoon / Evening All


Making progress with a flat varnish finish now.  Have resorted to wiping on a 50/50 thinned layer and not brushed...


And several coats, no inclusions, no brushmarks and flatter:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/20/20210120_145844-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/20/20210120_145933-Custom.jpg)


Have been playing with motors and ESC and radio while varnish dries...


And not too happy with the aggressive startup of the brushless motors (Overlander T3530/14).  Seems to me I made a mistake with the cheaper Shark 30A ESCs.  I have the programming card and have tried the various startup options.  Also having some issues getting the two units synced in terms of where they startup.  I have set their end points... Have I missed something obvious..?


Am considering the FrSky Neuron S 40A ESCs as they seem to have a fully programmable interface via PC, so I can guarantee they are both synced.  Also they seem to push back a load of telemetry without extra sensors...  But not cheap...  £50 each...


Any comments gratefully received.
Thanks
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on January 22, 2021, 04:41:56 pm
Hi David

Build is looking beautiful.

I've bought Overlander motors for all my Fairey builds, not ready for water yet, and am probably going to use Leopard Hobby Marine ESCs as they offer good adjustability. It's a pity that Overlander don't do ESCs that can be used in boats.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 22, 2021, 05:46:28 pm
Hi All


Thanks for the recommendations, all being looked at and considered.


I'm wanting fine control with the Aquarama setup, seems boats get a small selection of ESCs, and plenty of emphasis on pure power rather than control. Also realising that the lower cost units use a programming card and have limited options, spend more money like the Castle Creations (waterproof..) and FrSky Neuron (not waterproof...) and get a lot of control and telemetry...  I like the idea of getting the various voltages back to the TX, and the temperature of the ESCs, rather than a blue smoke signal...  And as tsenecal mentioned, the sync options when running two motors on two ESCs on two channels, are far more precise throughout the rev range with the higher end ESCs...


I'm not sure about the Leopard Hobby units Chris, have you used them before..?  They don't seem to have adjustable acceleration and that's what I'm wrestling with now.


Andy seems to have a good setup with a good progressive startup. It'll be interesting to see how the Overlander ESC drives the Overlander motor... Once I'm convinced that the motors I have can startup smoothly, I'll decide the ESC route. (These are 14 pole motors, I need to make sure that's not part of the problem with the more modest ESCs.)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on January 22, 2021, 09:27:07 pm
Hi David

Not used one yet as builds were delayed by not doing the spray painting when the weather was favourable! I was going to use Fusion Hawk ESCs as used in my Huntress with a Turnigy motor which moves off nice and smoothly but it's difficult to get them now.

Component Shop do the Leopard ones and would appear to be good quality and they have USB connection as well as program card which suggests can be programmed via PC as well. Frustratingly very little info. can be obtained by internet searching. The spec. does say that the software designed for RC boats does give excellent start up and acceleration performance.

As you say there isn't  a great choice in ESCs for boats. I'll order one and see how it performs on the bench. My boats are all single motor though so don't need to worry about synching the motors, just want a smooth start.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 26, 2021, 04:12:28 pm
Afternoon All


Well I received the loaned out Overlander ESC, and it gives perfect control of the motor.  If only they made a forward / reverse marine version...  So the ZWT Shark ESCs are heading for the bin, or at least a parts draw, I hate throwing parts away...


I've arrived at what I think is now the final varnish coat.  This was wiped on with a 'lint free' cloth, pretty happy with the result:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/26/20210125_095747-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/26/20210125_095713-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/26/20210125_095649-Custom.jpg)


I've started to look at the upholstery, I've added a fillet into the sundeck to get radiused surface, needs some finishing:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/26/20210126_101301-Custom.jpg)


And have started masking and bonding the shafts and P brackets in place:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/26/20210125_101723-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/26/20210126_145358-Custom.jpg)


I've added in a locking collar on the propshaft with a PTFE washer on either side, that collar will transmit the prop thrust to the motor mount, reverse thrust will be similarly applied to the motor mount by the drive gear at the front of the motor mount.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/26/20210126_101244-Custom.jpg)


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on January 26, 2021, 05:08:43 pm
Hi David

You might as well bin them or give them away as I doubt you will want to use them in anything! The Riva deserves, no demands, to have top notch components!

I said that it was a pity that Overlander don't do a suitable ESC and your test now confirms this but I guess that the market is small than that for aircraft.

I've ordered one of the Leopard ESCs so will see how it performs on the bench. Unfortunately Component Shop are out of program cards so I hope it can be set up via the PC. Hopefully it is good as I need 5 for my current builds and haven't found anything else yet.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 26, 2021, 05:38:08 pm
Hi Chris


Agreed re the Sharks...  My nagging doubt is that they may be OK on other motors, the Overlanders I have are 14 pole...  I think that's quite high in brushless terms, the Sharks may work on other motors, or not...


At risk of opening a can of worms...  I got the high pole count versions as I thought / think that it give better low down torque...  But I'm really not sure I made the right decision as I have no real experience with these motors.  I also have the 3:2 reduction gearbox to further reduce the RPM as one of my aims is fine low end control...


Will be interested in the Leopard ESCs if they have a PC interface, I think that's the only way to get full / accurate synchronisation with twin motors.


I need Andy to put his Tug on a shelf and get back to finishing his Riva to see how it goes...  Think he's using the Riva as a door stop at the moment...   O0


David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on January 27, 2021, 12:54:37 pm
The tug I can feel is on the downhill stretch now having started the 30 window frames. Detailing the inside of the wheelhouse will be one of the last jobs and then I'll be waiting on the weather to spray the deck and hull in final finishes.
At 34kg it will have to be one heck of a shelf  {-)



I still recommend that you try the Hobbywing Quicrun ESC's at only about £24 I cannot fault them. 30 amp should be more than adequate for your propellers. The motors only draw a fraction of their rated currents.


I bought the bigger 60 amp ones for my tug and its 84mm props only to find that on full power they are only drawing 21 amps tethered in the test tank
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 28, 2021, 05:49:44 pm
Hi Andy


34kg...  That's quite a build..!


After my bad experience with the Shark ESCs, I'm going to get a couple of models to test with as I now realise they are all not equal...  And the Hobbywing will be one of them.


Made some progress today, I have the prop tubes, P brackets and rudder tubes bonded in now:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/28/20210128_162647-Custom.jpg)


And this is what the motors look like in place:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/28/20210128_162631-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/28/20210128_162542-Custom.jpg)


A little tidying required around the epoxy and fill a couple of little pinholes:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/28/20210128_162339-Custom.jpg)


Will get the water pickups in tomorrow.


I'm thinking to make the whole underwater section white rather than the plan version of the white chevron at the bow.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on January 28, 2021, 10:16:55 pm
Hullo David.....defining belt tension would be a rather abstract unit  %)  of measure, however this belt looks pretty flat..[between pulleys]


I remember a year ago asking about belt tension effect & you confirmed adequate ball bearing support etc


Is there any tension function inbuilt within the motor mount?........and what is the function? of the brass rod athwart the motor mount axis


Again, the hull is superb...[just need to sail her in flotsome, log free seas  O0 ]......looking forward to see her on the water


Derek
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on January 29, 2021, 08:17:52 am
Hi Derek


I must admit some eyeballing of the gearbox design...  I've used these belts and pulleys in a couple of other projects, and felt they would be suitable for this use too.


These are the belts
https://www.motionco.co.uk/timing-belts-timing-belts-c-25_38_27.html (https://www.motionco.co.uk/timing-belts-timing-belts-c-25_38_27.html)


In terms of tension, I can adjust the motor position to set a given belt deflection. I'm thinking that at rest I'm starting at 3mm of deflection at the midpoint. Then as the rpm increases the belts own mass will cause it to grip the pulleys. Also I can set the two gearbox units to the same deflection. And in case I'm wrong I'll carry a couple of spares..!


The rpm limit of the belt is 20,000 and I'm only wanting scale ish speed, I've not run the numbers yet but I won't be hitting that. I'll do a calculation and post it.


The brass rod is a tube. I'm not sure whether it'll be needed. It's for water cooling, I'm thinking the whole mount will be a heat sink for the motor and the bearings, if required I can remove some of that heat.


I'll post results, good or bad... 
Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on February 01, 2021, 11:13:28 am
Hi David

Well, it looks like we have even less choice of ESC than we thought! It arrived, and rather than the Leopard Hobby ordered it was a HobbyWing Seaking. The spec. seems identical though, apart from no USB, and so I think the Leopard is just a badge engineered HobbyWing. Especially as the program card for the Seaking and Quicrun etc. can be used for Leopard ESCs.

Given the performance Andy has shown for the Quicrun I think I shall be happy with those and the Seaking ESCs.

As per his video all sensorless motors suffer from cogging/hesitation from start up which isn't usually a problem with boats and planes due to prop slippage. However if you want total smoothness and fine control from the off you could always go for a sensored motor and ESC which perform so well in rock crawlers.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 03, 2021, 05:53:06 pm
Afternoon All


Progress on a few fronts.  The rudders have been installed and blade shape tweaked, a bit closer to the true Riva shape:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/03/20210202_163813-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/03/20210202_142922-Custom.jpg)


And I've been spending some money...  I really liked the idea of telemetry, so have two FrSky Neuron 40S ESCs...  They are twice the price of the Hobbywing units being discussed, but the telemetry sensors are built in.  Just couldn't help myself...


Anyway, now I have silky smooth control from around 200 to 12,000rpm...  Plus telemetry on the TX indicating port and starboard ESC temperature, Lipo voltage, current draw and rpm...  All sensors built into the ESCs.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/03/20210203_160617-Custom.jpg)


I'll put a video together of the motors spinning up and post it soon.


And some thoughts on speed:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/03/Speed-Calculation.jpg)


Will be interesting to see if the calculations are anywhere near reality.  I think they seem reasonable.  I think slip is reduced on a twin prop installation.


Best regards
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 11, 2021, 11:20:22 am
Morning All


Thought it might be of interest to post the config screen on the FrSky Neuron 40A ESC, the ESC ships with a USB adapter then uses an app called BL_Heli32 running on a PC (Mac and Linux available too).  The app reads the current config, allows adjustments, and then writes back to the ESC.  The profiles generated can be saved and then in my case pushed to a second ESC, so I have digitally identical ESC behavior.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/11/BLHeliSuite32ESC-Setup_210202_1.png)


I'm still very much getting my head around it, but have to say I'm impressed so far.  Amongst other things, accurate setting of the throttle centre point is very helpful to syncronise motors. There's an 'Auto' timing setting, this should reduce the power draw and increase motor efficiency.  The motors are very smooth at the moment, but there's another setting for 'Auto' PWM Frequency, that should optimise frequency for a given throttle opening.  'Sine modulation mode' turns the stepped pulses sent to the motor into a sine waveform, again making the motors smoother.  'Rampup power' is like the soft start option. 'Maximum Acceleration' is interesting, this should allow a more scale performance by limiting the power delivery of the motors.


The manual with a full explanation of parameters is here:


https://github.com/bitdump/BLHeli/blob/master/BLHeli_32%20ARM/BLHeli_32%20manual%20ARM%20Rev32.x.pdf (https://github.com/bitdump/BLHeli/blob/master/BLHeli_32%20ARM/BLHeli_32%20manual%20ARM%20Rev32.x.pdf)


A downside is that the ESCs are not waterproof, I'll be mounting in a suitable aluminium case that will also act as a heatsink.


And I'm not sure exactly whats doing it, but the motors are running a lot quieter. I suspect it may be a few factors mentioned above, but also the higher PWM frequency that's way out of the audible range...  A lot of ESCs run 8/16Mhz, which we can hear as a whine, or is that garbage... Any thoughts..?


Best regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 21, 2021, 08:39:23 pm
Evening All


Been busy getting electrics set up out of the boat, then starting to apply to the boat.  Had to rebuild the masthead light as the LED was intermittent.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/21/20210221_132411_resized-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/21/20210221_132056_resized-Custom.jpg)


So this is the Dash, nav / masthead and dock lights:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/21/20210221_132017_resized-Custom.jpg)


I've set the nav / masthead and the dash on one circuit, and the dock lights on another.  Then set up a three way TX switch, Off, dash and nav / masthead, and then third position adds the dock lights.


Also been busy programming up the TX, video to follow.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on February 26, 2021, 10:44:12 am
A great build to follow here. Not only a great looking craft but such detail on the electrical side is interesting! Helping me with ideas for the future...
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: jpdenver on February 26, 2021, 03:39:59 pm
I am continuously amazed at the precision of your build.   It really shows the incredible thought and care you have
taken. 

I hope that one day my my decks will come close to the smoothness and detail yours show. 

Regards, 

Jim Pope
JPDenver


Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 26, 2021, 04:58:16 pm
Hi Stuw and Jim


You're both very kind, I think we all spur each other on to keep standards up..!


I've now got all the electronic side of the build together and been able test as a fully integrated system rather than individual parts.


In no particular order:


The boat is getting a heading hold gyro (I had a spare), this is going to be enabled when the skier is enabled to keep the hull heading in right direction.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/26/20210226_150140_resized-Custom.jpg)


I've made up some Rx controlled switches, so on/off from a Tx toggle switch.  They have an integrated voltage regulator, so input voltage can be 4.5v to 28v and output can be from 0.8v to 20v, variable for whatever devices are being powered.  So they're pulling power from the balance port of the lipo rather than the Rx. (And can supply more current at a range of voltages. Voltage Regulator is an MP1584en, RC switch is a Pololu 2803.)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/26/20210226_135240_resized-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/26/20210226_135249_resized-Custom.jpg)


A couple of plastic 'stand offs' hot glued in to allow fixing.  3 outputs per switch, so up to three devices can be enabled from same channel, fine for current needs with some expansion built in.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/26/20210226_150151_resized-Custom.jpg)


And for some engine sounds...


This is a DIY Arduino based system (not my own design but my version of it) with a dual channel amplifier and one of the voltage regulator boards that uses actual Aquarama V8 startup and running sound samples, running two speaker channels, one speaker built into the bow, and an Audio Exciter that going to be attached under the forward deck, it uses the deck as the speaker surface...  Engine cranking startup sound then a proportional engine speed.  Sound on or off via a switch on the Tx.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/26/20210226_135354_resized-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/26/20210226_135406_resized-Custom.jpg)


And here's the Audio Exciter:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/26/20210226_150220_resized-Custom.jpg)


Weighs in at 19g... 3w output.


Three 'boxes' being built in for the electronics.  One aluminium case for the ESCs to act as a heatsink, two plastic cases to port and starboard for the rest.


Next task will be to fit the devices into the cases.


As a side note, I've been really pleased with the Arduino (I'm using the really small Pro Mini), and started to wonder about using one to sense for the presence of water in the bilge and use telemetry to push a warning to the Tx... Anyone tried that..?


And if you've got this far, here's a 10 min video showing the light and sound build so far and the tweaked motor controls too.


https://youtu.be/Rj3ynymx54Y (https://youtu.be/Rj3ynymx54Y)


Been good to get this lot together.
Best regards
David.
 
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on February 26, 2021, 06:49:26 pm
Hi David

That's seriously impressive. Your model is going to be great once it's finished.

You've certainly got those motors running lovely and smoothly now. I take it those ESCs can only be used with that make of Tx?

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 26, 2021, 07:03:20 pm
Hi Chris


Thanks..! Its taking time but I'm trying..!


I'll try the escs with my futaba and let you know how they perform. I think they should be OK, but no telemetry.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on February 26, 2021, 07:10:54 pm
I thought that would be the case with the telemetry. It's really good to be able to see the RPM, voltage etc.

I'm locked into Hitec now but I see with my Flash 8 with the appropriate Rx and sensors it can display the data. I will look into it one day once I've got my builds on the water.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: C-3PO on February 26, 2021, 07:17:50 pm

As a side note, I've been really pleased with the Arduino (I'm using the really small Pro Mini), and started to wonder about using one to sense for the presence of water in the bilge and use telemetry to push a warning to the Tx... Anyone tried that..?


Water Alarm

https://youtu.be/HcpV0flL-zA (https://youtu.be/HcpV0flL-zA)

(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/26/WaterAlarm.png)

https://youtu.be/HcpV0flL-zA (https://youtu.be/HcpV0flL-zA)

Regards
C-3PO

Code: [Select]
int soundFreq = 700;
int soundStep = 50;

const int ledPin = 13 ;
const int soundPin = 6;
const int sensorPin = A0;

uint16_t sensorValue = 0;

void setup()
{
  pinMode(ledPin, OUTPUT) ;
  pinMode(soundPin, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(sensorPin, INPUT_PULLUP);
  //digitalWrite(A0, INPUT_PULLUP);
}

void loop()
{
  sensorValue = analogRead(sensorPin);
  if (sensorValue > 1000)
  {
    digitalWrite(ledPin, LOW);
    noTone(soundPin);
    delay(50);
  }
  else
  {
    digitalWrite(ledPin, HIGH);
    tone(soundPin, soundFreq) ;
    soundFreq = soundFreq + soundStep;
    if (soundFreq == 1200)
    {
      soundStep = -50;
    }

    if (soundFreq == 700)
    {
      soundStep = 50;
    }

    delay(25);
    digitalWrite(ledPin, LOW);
    delay(25); pause 25ms
  }
}
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 26, 2021, 08:54:15 pm
Hi 3PO


That's interesting, I've not seen that version. I've had a look around and found several Arduino libraries for FrSky telemetry, not had a look in detail yet.


Have you used any of these..?


https://github.com/RealTadango/FrSky (https://github.com/RealTadango/FrSky)


Suggest we move this chat to the Arduino forum thread. I'll put my detection code up there when at my PC.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on February 26, 2021, 09:29:10 pm
Very - very impressive  :-))   I cannot do electronics but I admire those that can.  Keep the updates coming.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on February 28, 2021, 01:19:36 pm
Hey Mark


Well thanks for that, trick now is to get it all running inside the boat without blue smoke...


Forgot to add in the pump, that's now corrected, its on same switch as engine sound but a separate channel. Switch on Tx is a three way so its, Sound Off/Sound On/Sound and Pump On.  Reasoning is that pump will deliver water through exhausts at slow speed for effect, so usually with sound, tickover by the dock and so on. For normal running, water will be fed via the water pickups behind the props and pump can be off.

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/28/20210228_123444-Custom.jpg)

And I've had to adjust plan a shade with the sound...  I didn't build in a set of wires for the Audio Exciter, so now can't get the wires buried in...  So, its gone midships under the deck.  It has a 3M self adhesive strip thats attaching it to a small flat scrap piece, which is then bonded under the deck.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/28/20210228_125238-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/28/20210228_125252-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/28/20210228_125300-Custom.jpg)


Overall sound is now improved I think, I can turn down the output from the amplifier so its not maxed out and still get good resonance and sound depth.  I'll put a section on next video that compares the conventional speaker and the Audio Exciter sound wise.


If I'd planned these in from earlier in the build I'd have used several and built them into better positions. They're a fraction of the weight of a conventional speaker, and can generate lower frequencies when attached to a large surface.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on March 02, 2021, 08:43:23 am
Looks and sounds fantastic! Out of my comfort zone but great to see.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 04, 2021, 03:43:52 pm
Some more Aquarama Bling..!


I was thinking about all the very expensive bits of electronics that I'm about to build in to my boat, and thought it would be useful to know if there was any water on the inside of the hull while its on the lake rather than rely on a blue smoke signal and then suffer the pain that would likely follow...


So I've built an Arduino based bilge water detector and added it to the telemetry that comes back to the Tx. So now I get a sound file played every 3 seconds on the Tx in the event water is detected on the inside of the hull.  I'm thinking two probes near the rudder and propshaft seals.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/04/20210304_145234-Custom.jpg)


Full details are here: [size=78%]https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,66425.0.html (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,66425.0.html)[/size]


And a video showing the testing here: [/size][size=78%]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S9OKOHVceM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S9OKOHVceM)[/size]


Enough of the toys. Back to boat building now...
Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Backerther on March 05, 2021, 04:02:55 am
Hi
These pics are my way of the water detection and drain which is comparatively simple and currently
adopted in my HMS Fencer 1/96.
But from my experience sailing her many times,I feel it is not so useful as the ship will let me know
by her strange  posture itself if the water should come into the hull to some extent.
At the moment,it's OK to return the ship which is even some 10m away from me....
This is just from my personal experience by the slow -going aircraft carrier model. :-)
1;A famous American-made system
2;The drain pump is powerful enough
3:A red lamp will light on when detecting the water and I set it like this to be seen easily when she comes near.
4/5;Layout
6;Table test with a very small amount of water to refrain from the "flood" around the work bench. {-) O0
7;No problem on this kind of the water..
8;Very dangerous water in the trial run as if she were hit by the torpedo. After checks later at home, around 2cm or more high water could be seen!!
The bilge pump was not set at this stage. Therefore the pump had better be set in the hull usually for a safe return to the shore.!! O0


Backerther
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 05, 2021, 09:58:11 am
Hi Backerther


Thanks for your comments and pictures, nice looking ship build..!



That looks like an efficient system to remove water, and a similar way of detecting water with the sensor.  In my case I really don't want any water at all in the hull so aim is to make me aware as fast as possible if there's a problem so I can get the boat back to the dock. And as always with the Aquarama build, weight is an issue, so while I've worked hard to take weight out of the build, I am aware every time I add a non standard part it is adding weight back again.  The good news is that the Arduino setup adds around 8 grams... So I think the weight penalty is worth the insurance.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 05, 2021, 10:25:43 am
Hi David

That's seriously impressive. Your model is going to be great once it's finished.

You've certainly got those motors running lovely and smoothly now. I take it those ESCs can only be used with that make of Tx?

Chris


Hi Chris


Just remembered I'd not got back to you on this, so just plugged in the Futaba 6EX with R606FS Rx, and the Neurons are silky smooth right across the range.  :-))


So its possible to use the extended programming capability offered by the Neurons without FrSky RC.  But full FrSky / OpenTX RC needed for telemetry integration I think.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on March 05, 2021, 09:37:25 pm
Hi David

Thanks for that.

Hopefully I shall be alright with the Seaking ESCs which are basically the marine version of the Quicruns which Andy showed running nicely. As well as having some variables, but via a program card rather than PC, I'm pretty sure my Tx has soft start etc. programming options - I need to read the instruction book again!

I do a bit of trickling along but mainly medium to fast speeds and only one motor so I think things will be fine. Good to know there is another option known to work nice and smoothly though if needed.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 06, 2021, 10:32:46 pm
Hi Chris


I was impressed with the results Andy got too. If I'd been running my Futaba as originally planned I'd have used same ESCs for sure, can't fault them. As I now have the FrSky system, well I just wanted the telemetry too. To play around with it for this build and maybe understand it future builds too.


I spent some time today getting the electronics into a state ready to fit into the hull. Hope to have some more progress and pics tomorrow.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on March 07, 2021, 09:17:38 am
I don't know if I mentioned it in my build but I usually just fit a continuously running self priming pump. If enough water meets the pick up pipe its straight back out. My SL Shannon is especially prone to water ingress. These are often sold as new or used vending machine pumps and vary from £3 upwards. Mine are usually fed straight off the receiver, I just need to remember to turn it on  {-)




Typically
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Micro-Air-Pump-Water-Pump-Mini-pumps-DC6V-12V-Vacuum-Pump-Self-Priming-Pump/174205314765?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3D4a15b9d094e847389826736ade8cd65d%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dco%26sd%3D174502399432%26itm%3D174205314765%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseUnbiasedWeb%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 07, 2021, 05:57:41 pm
Hi Andy


They look interesting. I have an old Fireboat that needs a bit of TLC and a new pump. I'll get a couple of those, good that they're self priming.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 12, 2021, 04:01:16 pm
Afternoon All


A Friday update. Been getting the electrical system into a state that can be integrated with the hull.  Its still a work in progress, but this is where I'm at:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/12/20210312_153612_resized-Custom.jpg)


At the top is the aluminium case for the speed controllers, I'm going to bring the motor cables and Rx wires out through grommets, the power in via the two panel mounted XT60s on top of the case.  ESCs are not waterproof and I'll rely on the case as a heatsink, if this proves inadequate I'll water cool it.


Two Lipos in the centre, then two panel mount plastic cases left and right.  Left houses Rx, bilge monitor and dock light switch. Right houses Nav / dash light switch and sound system, cables are brought round to the left case to plug into Rx.


They'll be mounted like this:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/12/20210312_153516_resized-Custom.jpg)


And fit like this:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/12/20210312_153854_resized-Custom.jpg)


I'm hoping to hide most of the cabling eventually.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on March 12, 2021, 04:15:55 pm
Very impressive David.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 12, 2021, 04:32:54 pm
Thanks Chris, I'm really hoping it works out OK. Will be adding in line fuses and rechecking it all before I dare plug it all in....
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 24, 2021, 05:44:21 pm
Slow but steady progress with the electronics.  I've powered them up, no smoke...!


Motors are both installed, and the electronics cases are mounted outboard of the Lipos, removable, but tucked out of the way. Not a lot of room in this hull:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/24/20210324_173232-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/24/20210324_173225-Custom.jpg)


Just making sure all the cabling is in and routed through frames OK, then some sealing to be done.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/24/20210324_173306-Custom.jpg)


Need to add some split tube for the Lipos to sit on.


ESCs will be next, aft of the motors, forward of the Lipos.


Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on March 24, 2021, 06:20:09 pm
Looks very neat and tidy with all those electronics tucked away!


Forgive my ignorance but by ďsplit tubeĒ do you mean the buoyancy pool noodle type or is it something else?
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 24, 2021, 07:02:02 pm
Hi Stuw


Thanks, it was the only space I could see in that aft section to use, normally its just wasted space.  But to be honest the Amati build is so robust once the double planking is done the frames are not really needed at their original dimensions. (In my opinion..)


And I wasn't very clear about the tube reference.  I will use some 3mm soft pipe, split it along its length, then put it over the frames where they're cut out for the Lipos and glue it down so the lipos don't sit directly on the wood.  Aim is to stop the lipos being damaged, and make a more snug fit to stop them moving around.


Where are you in Surrey..? I'm in Hersham.  When the world is normal I go over to the boating lake at Bushy Park, but have been in contact with the Pheonix MBC as they operate on the Silvermere lake just 5 mins from me.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: SteamboatPhil on March 24, 2021, 07:19:27 pm
They are very nice people at the Phoenix club, you will have fun....when all is normal  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on March 25, 2021, 09:06:46 am
I see ref the pipe. Mine (in a totally different type of boat to your fine example) will be on a flat plate of ply but will use some thin grip drawer insert rubber mat to stop mine sliding.


Iím Woking area so not too far from you. I havenít got any membership anywhere and will end up with my Javelin hopefully working at some point this year but appreciate not all clubs like fast boats. Not that Iím planning to do drag races, Iím a cautious type so will keep the speed within my own capability.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 25, 2021, 09:24:56 am
Morning Stuw


Woking, not too far away at all.  I had a chat with one of the Pheonix guys.  They don't like speed at Silvermere either, don't want to dice the Carp...  I'm thinking that with the Riva its quite happy to run at a restricted pace in exchange for an outing in really pleasant surroundings.  Then Bushy Park or somewhere else when there's a 'need for speed'...  Any Clubs / lakes close to Woking for faster models..?


And Phil, thanks for the comment, I'm looking forward to getting down to Silvermere to meet some of the folks.  Some fine models based on what I've seen online.


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on March 25, 2021, 12:25:44 pm
I havenít done any research into where to sail.


Sounds strange perhaps but my driving reason to get on here and start tinkering with my 25+ year old model was to give me something to do whilst things arenít so busy at work! As my progress is very slow, Iím still enjoying just plodding along whilst reading the amazing progress people like yourself are making with their outstanding models!


Years ago I used Bolder Mere near Wisley off the A3 with the glowfuel motor but I believe [size=78%]it is forbidden to do this to protect the wildlife which I understand. It looks like there is a boating lake in Goldsworth Park near me but I need to look into it some more at some point. [/size]


Is Bushy Park a free for all? I donít know if I should have insurance of some sort as well?


Anyway sorry to deviate a little from your lovely build but you did ask!  {-)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 25, 2021, 05:35:38 pm
Hi Stuw


No worries at all, we have to be able to use the boats once we've built them..!



Interesting about Bolder Mere, I'll look into that too.  And would be good to know about Goldsworth Park if you find out anything.


Bushy Park is indeed a free for all as far as I know.  I've sailed with others there on a Sunday morning, its all pretty informal. (Anyone else know different..?)


Insurance... Back in the day I raced Multi boats and had MPBA (Model Power Boat Association) insurance cover via my local boat club membership.  Most model clubs offer this to members I think.  It's also possible to get individual insurance.  I guess compared to Multi boats I feel the scale electrics are less of a public liability risk, that was the big worry (til someone corrects me...) But you raise a good point.  There's also the value of the boats in case of loss.  Something to think about for sure. I just had a look at Pheonix MBC membership it does offer Public Liability cover.


http://myc.aoxomoxoa.co/pmmc/index.php?title=Information (http://myc.aoxomoxoa.co/pmmc/index.php?title=Information)


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on March 30, 2021, 03:48:32 pm
Afternoon All


More progress with mounting the ESCs.  They're now in a lightened aluminium case, not exactly waterproof, but splash proof for sure, and hopefully providing the passive cooling. The ESCs are attached to the case with thermal pads to improve heat transfer. They're providing their temperature telemetry so I'll be able to see how the cooling is going.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/30/20210327_093346_resized-Custom.jpg)


A pair of panel mount XT60s on top, this has had the mill lightening treatment after this picture was taken:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/30/20210327_093327_resized-Custom.jpg)


And the result ready for installation:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/30/20210330_151740_resized-Custom.jpg)


Next task is getting the three electronics cases installed, the hull is desperately tight for space so its not straightforward.


Best regards
David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 02, 2021, 06:50:34 pm
Evening All

Good day today. All running hardware is pretty much fitted, and running...
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/02/20210402_172358-Custom.jpg)

And tipping the scales at 3.6kg. I'm reasonably pleased with that at this stage of the build. It's mainly lightweight aesthetic fittings to go.

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/02/20210402_172016-Custom.jpg)

Water pipes and pump are in too. I just need to seal the exhausts then a float test to see how it sits and runs. I'll post that as a video.

Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on April 02, 2021, 08:21:13 pm
David that is one gorgeous boat mate  :-))   Blimey that is dedication to get things right!
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 05, 2021, 08:02:38 pm
Thanks for that Mark. Appreciated.


Maiden voyage of sorts today. Had the boat in the hot tub to see the waterline, and a little play...
https://youtu.be/ktwcbaGs0hI (https://youtu.be/ktwcbaGs0hI)
Plenty more to do, but good to know it floats...  :-))
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Capt Podge on April 05, 2021, 09:21:33 pm
What a beauty you've created and in your 'basin' trials she looks (and sounds) like she's raring to go  O0 .
Fantastic job  :-))


Ray.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on April 05, 2021, 09:58:05 pm
Awesome job David  8)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on April 05, 2021, 11:08:32 pm
Even with the weight of the build, albeit lightened, and all the equipment installed, it's good to see it sitting just as it should on the water.

And it looks as though you've nailed the fine, slow speed control that you wanted.

Nice one! Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 06, 2021, 08:36:58 am

Morning All


Thanks for the kind words and support..!
And while most of it went well.
There is an issue that concerns me... I think I've screwed up the alignment of the rubbing strips that come forward from the stern. They should be parallel with the waterline, and they're not...
I think I've taken measurements from the revised chine, and that's caused them to drop at the forward end.
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/06/Screenshot_20210406-082050_YouTube.jpg)


I'm thinking that they need to come off, and new ones placed properly and that's not ideal... the waterline paintwork has to flow from the line of those strips, and right now that's not going to work.


They're not going to come off without a fight.
 {:-{
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on April 06, 2021, 09:07:04 am
Possibly you are a little high out of the water at the stern?
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-WvkGpnX/0/4556e300/X3/699C0889-C133-4789-BCEB-B39723AAA88F-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: SteamboatPhil on April 06, 2021, 09:31:31 am
Will it not sit right when the boat goes on the plane ?
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 06, 2021, 10:44:49 am
Hi Phil


You're right it probably will be OK on the plane, the problem will be when stationary or at low speed.


The problem will be following the line of the rubbing strips / fenders with paint.  If I maintain a straight line forward (from the lower edge of the rubbing strip / fender), which I should, it ends up very low at the bow, too low.  And a waterline can't really have a bend in it.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/06/20210406_095546-Custom.jpg)


Andy, I can see that yours follows the planking line.  Mine doesn't...  I have 25mm from rubbing strip / fender to chine at the stern, and 20mm at the forward end... I can see now I've just put them on at the wrong angle.


If I were to take them off and raise the forward end to match the waterline I need, the 'disturbed' area would end up being painted over with white anyway so not so noticeable.  I think they'd have to be planed off as they're well attached, but not pinned.  Make up a new set, varnish them off the hull, then attach, at the end of the day they're cosmetic.  If I did this again I'd think hard about leaving attaching them til after the float test.


I'll leave the decision a little while I think and get the boat up to full weight and balance. The exhausts are aluminium at the moment, they're going to be replaced with chrome over thin brass, so a bit heavier.  Stern hatch and sundeck will add some weight, but I fear most additional weight will now be in the main seating area, forward of the current CoG so problem will now get worse rather than better.


Regards to all.
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on April 06, 2021, 10:54:28 am
I didnít use my planking as a guide, I marked the water line with masking tape and used that to go by.
Iím sure youíll do whatís right in the end having worked so hard  :-))


Mine are pointing down in relation to the planks but I also have my chines added to the hull bottom so my side steps may look higher than they are
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 08, 2021, 02:13:37 pm
Hi All

So I've been adding things (toys...) to the build, but haven't forgotten that shedding weight where possible is a good idea with this hull.

So, some of the original 'deck cushions':

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/08/20210408_134223-Custom.jpg)

And the new ones from neoprene and faux leather:

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/08/20210408_134245-Custom.jpg)

I'm not following the original build in terms of colours.  Mine will be mainly this cream for all upholstery, with red accents.

Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Capt Podge on April 08, 2021, 02:25:48 pm
That's quite a saving when weight is critical - nice one  :-))


Ray.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 09, 2021, 03:14:56 pm
Hi Ray, thanks for that.  I'm getting some of the easier upholstery replaced as I figure out how best to work with the materials. Working up to the seats, the Amati originals are similarly overweight and will allow a good saving, but they're going to be a challenge to get right.  I do have the benefit of seeing how others on the forum have approached the Aquarama upholstery (UKMike) and will see how I get on.


Few more grams coming off the boat today, but not exactly what I'd been aiming for...


Decided the fenders have to be replaced, so first task is getting them off without damaging the hull:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/09/20210408_150117_resized-Custom.jpg)


Then some surgery with a couple of planes and sanding blocks...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/09/20210409_141455_resized-Custom.jpg)


Hard lesson learnt.  Measure twice, cut (or in this case glue and varnish 10 times) once.


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on April 09, 2021, 08:08:21 pm
Hi David - I saw your last post and I though just sleep on it and really think about whether the job needs doing or not.  That was such a.difficult decision for you to make especially due to the finish on the hull. 


What a great decision  :-))   So much work and effort has gone into this build and you may have looked back at a later date and wished you had done it anyway.  Great work and patience  :-)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 10, 2021, 12:22:27 pm
Hi Mark

Yes, the work has to be done. Mike sent me this pic which shows the waterline in relation to the fender strips and where the waterline meets the bow.
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/10/7671333_20201128074009335_1_XLARGE.jpg)
Looks very good when done correctly.
Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on April 10, 2021, 08:59:51 pm
Oh. Well recovered - I think I might have shed a tear / kicked the cat after all that work!!


Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 13, 2021, 04:06:46 pm
Afternoon All


Not much in the way progress update...  I've taken delivery of some 10mm Chromed brass tube to make new exhausts, but not made em yet...  I've ordered some half round (4mm x 2mm x 300mm) brass to make up some more convincing rubbing strips, but its not arrived yet...


I've started to think about the waterline.  At the moment I have a spray can of Plastikote white primer, and another spray can of Plastikote (off) white gloss.  A gloss red plastikote spray can, and a pot of same red... Some low tack frog tape, some tamiya 10mm masking tape, some 3mm red trim tape and a load of thin plastic sheet to protect the hull.  I'm planning to spray the whole underside of the hull white, with a red pinstripe around the waterline.  I have a laser level to give me the line, and have marked up the hull at bow and stern.


I'd like to match the proportions and precision of the picture a few posts up. I think where the waterline crosses the chine, toward the bow will be the main challenge as the red pinstripe will have to change shape to give the illusion of still being a line when viewed from the side.


Question is, how best to do it...


1. Spray the white coats, then use red pinstripe tape.  Sharp lines / edges, but not good at the chines...
2. Instead of the pinstripe tape, mask and spray / brush paint the red.  Better at the chines maybe.
3. Spray the white primer, then spray a red line larger (wider) than required, then use some tamiya flexi tape to cover the red I want to keep, and spray the white gloss...


Or another approach.  Any thoughts..?


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on April 13, 2021, 04:26:36 pm
Hi David


Just my thoughts for you.


Spraying the white colour is the easy bit it's the pin stripe thats the pain. To do the pin stripe I would firstly paint the white and then leave it for a couple of weeks to cure.


I then use 3M pin striping tape and lay this exactly where I want the pin stripe to be.  The 3M tape is plastic and stretches very easily and you don't want that to happen to lay it where you want it carefully.


Once I'm happy with the position I run another strip of this pin striping masking tape either side of the one that I want.  Then remove the middle tape and after masking the whole thing up you can spray the line.


This is the way that I do it but there are loads of different ways to do this - good luck!
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 13, 2021, 05:55:14 pm
Hi Mark


Excellent plan.  I can see that working well.


I'll look for some 3M pinstriping tape the right width, and get on with the main white coats in the meantime.


Thanks..!
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on April 13, 2021, 06:44:41 pm
Hi David


This has worked well for me on a couple of occasions - but its seriously fiddly and I can't emphasise enough how important it is to not stretch the tape.  3M tape is by far the best for this job but either way you will get a bit of a lip of paint either side of the tape.  I've always blended this in using quite a lot of clear top coat but I'm not sure how that will work with the varnish that you are using.  I guess its a case of try it off the boat first and see if you are happy with it


Mark
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 13, 2021, 08:15:26 pm
Hi Mark


Ok, understood, and I'll test each step on a test piece before the hull.


Can I check with you. Is this the tape you're referring to..?


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/13/Screenshot_20210413-201051_eBay.jpg)
Thanks
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on April 13, 2021, 08:21:21 pm
Yes mate this is the best stuff for what you want to do.  Hereís a tip - donít lay the roll on anything dirty or dusty as the whole of the side of the roll will become contaminated. Use the roll and then put it away to keep it clean. Good luck youíll be fine  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: SteamboatPhil on April 13, 2021, 08:42:24 pm
A good tip Mark, thank you
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 13, 2021, 10:15:16 pm
Agreed, thanks Mark. I'll get some on order.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 15, 2021, 08:36:51 pm
Evening All


Started on the waterline and painting of the underwater section of the hull.


Started at the transom, the line measured up from the exhausts, then a laser to get the line. And then masking tape to create the edge. I'm using yellow low tack frog tape for this stage.


Marking the laser line with tape.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/PSX_20210415_191000.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/PSX_20210415_190945.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/PSX_20210415_190930.jpg)


Then applying the tape line


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/PSX_20210415_190915.jpg)


And remove the small markers, you can see how far I was off with the stern fender stips... I've decided to add these back later...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/PSX_20210415_190859.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/PSX_20210415_190838.jpg)


And then I cleaned the hull with white spirit, added some protection to the rest of the hull... and sprayed white primer...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/PSX_20210415_190819.jpg)


Finish on the primer is looking good so far. I'll inspect tomorrow when it's cured overnight.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/PSX_20210415_190749.jpg)


On a separate note...  the flag in the background is from the 200th anniversary of the battle of trafalgar in 1805. I was lucky enough to get a 'gold' flag, that allowed me to be part of the pleasure boat fleet that dipped our ensigns as we did a sail past of the Queen who was aboard HMS Endurance in the solent...  Back in the day...


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 16, 2021, 08:37:05 pm
Adding a few more thin coats of primer, I've used some filler to fully smooth where I had to remove the fenders. Really pleased with the finish it's giving and looking forward to getting a real gloss coat on.
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/16/PSX_20210416_190822.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on April 16, 2021, 08:43:58 pm
Very clean job David it looks great just get that masking tape off ASAP whilst the paint is still wet.  The edge will crack otherwise
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 16, 2021, 08:47:49 pm
Hey Mark, OK, so I need to get the gloss on sooner rather than later, then the tape off, is that what you're saying..?
Thanks
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on April 16, 2021, 09:30:17 pm
Hi David - I always spray and then give it 10 - 15 mins and then get the tape off.  If I need to repaint or lacquer I'll reapply fresh tape.  Its a real pain but if you let paint dry with the tape still on the edge will usually crack as you peel the tape off.  Always take the tape off whilst the paint is still wet.  It is possible to get away with it if the paint dries but thats luck not judgement.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 16, 2021, 10:14:05 pm
OK...  Well I'll try getting it off in the morning and see what happens, it's in my outside office / workshop and I can't get to it  right now. I'll have to make good this time but noted for future coats.


Thanks for the input, it's appreciated...
Last boat I built was abut 40 years ago, a multi racer with a Webra 61, not a piece of wood in sight...  so this Aquarama is a bit of a learning curve.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on April 16, 2021, 10:25:56 pm
Hi mate and don't worry it's just one of those things.  I've been lucky enough to do my fair share of car bodywork and spraying with the pro's.  They always remove any tape whilst everything is still tacky.  It just peels of nicely and if your really good you can smooth down overlaps with your finger.  I reckon that you'll be ok with the primer but top coat dries much harder.  Good luck I'm sure it'll be ok  :-))  - let us know how you get on.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Capt Podge on April 16, 2021, 10:35:48 pm
Another little tip - when removing, peel the masking tape back against itself, less chance of paint lifting that way.  ;)


Ray.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 16, 2021, 10:40:36 pm
Thanks both..!  Next exciting episode tomorrow...  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 18, 2021, 04:11:17 pm
Ok. Several spray coats of white gloss, and the tape removed before it cures.


Some minor snagging but mainly a clean line. As suggested by MarkT I'll now leave for a week or so before masking up for the red line.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/18/PSX_20210418_155738.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/18/PSX_20210418_155719.jpg)


Pleased with the result so far.  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on April 18, 2021, 08:05:57 pm
Itís looking great.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 20, 2021, 10:14:56 am
Thanks for that Stuw.


While that white cures I'm reworking the exhausts, originally I made out of Aluminium, I thought they really need to be chrome.


So ordered some 10mm OD chromed brass pipe. Its a bit heavy duty (8mm ID) so I've run a 9mm drill up the inside to thin the walls to 0.5mm, then shaped to the stern 'rake':


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/20/20210420_090952-Custom.jpg)


I'll make up the second, then they need a water inlet pipe and the the exposed end needs a red finish on the inside...


The brass strip in the above picture is the 4mm x 2mm half round that arrived yesterday.  I think its going to be perfect for the rubbing strip.  Needs shaping, drilling and chroming. I'm thinking I might need to make a jig to get a drill to go straight through the middle, repeatedly...)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/20/20210420_091148-Custom.jpg)


Best regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 20, 2021, 08:06:48 pm
Quick update. Both exhausts are now cut and machined. The flanges are from the Amati kit, just need a little shaping to fit against the stern. I'll be using 2mm screws to secure when they're ready.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/20/PSX_20210420_195456.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/20/PSX_20210420_195540.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on April 20, 2021, 10:34:01 pm
David...did I read that the intention was to colour the exhaust tube internals Red? .....I would have imagined Blackened [and by chemical blackening]


Engines of this vintage irrespective of state of tune would have exhibited a Black deposit at the exhaust tailpipe........


Remember all those days before unleaded fuels in motor vehicles?


Derek
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on April 20, 2021, 10:52:11 pm
 :-))   http://www.ventspleen.com/tag/riva-aquarama/


(http://www.ventspleen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/3atriva.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 21, 2021, 08:22:29 am
Morning Derek


Yes, it seems to be one of those Riva signatures that sets them apart:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/21/Screenshot_20210421-080801_Pinterest.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/21/Screenshot_20210421-081103_Chrome.jpg)


Interesting link Andy, I guess if someone can afford a full sized Aquarama that someone can afford keep another someone on to keep it shining... including the exhausts...


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on April 21, 2021, 02:57:11 pm
Sorry David, I have never inspected images of these exquisite Crafts exhaust systems   :o


Thinking more, could the actual Craft engines exhaust headers and exit pipe, be a Nickle plated, 300 Series stainless material, with the exit pipe internals be electrolytically copper flashed to provide the coloured surface as seen? :-X


[courtesy of the Electrochemical Series, and to improve adherence to the sub-strate & finish of the final product, steels are flash plated with copper prior to either Chromium or Nickle plating - with Chromium for improved surface hardness or abrasion resistance, and Nickle for the greater reflective quality]


I am sure there must be a chemical treatment to alter the surface colour of brass to this ~~ chosen reddish, without adding any real depth [as red paint would  >:-o ]


Derek
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on April 21, 2021, 05:06:44 pm
Or just paint some red on these little pipes! Interesting link about the red paint!  %%
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 21, 2021, 05:48:58 pm
Hi Derek


I've got a few pieces being prepared for chroming but not sure about getting a red finish, I will look into that as it sounds interesting. As this is purely aesthetic I've used red paint.


A little more progress today. Water inlet pipes added to exhausts.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/21/PSX_20210421_171712.jpg)


And soft soldered in place.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/21/PSX_20210421_171742.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/21/PSX_20210421_171800.jpg)


Some Tubing added, and a base coat of red...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/21/PSX_20210421_171815.jpg)


Another coat tomorrow then some gloss acrylic to seal. Then add the flanges.


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on April 23, 2021, 07:42:05 pm
Evening All


Good progress today.


This is what I'm using to paint the hull, I'm sticking with the Plastikote range in an effort to ensure no conflict.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/23/PSX_20210423_121447.jpg)


The Trade Plastikote was a lead from UKMike, the 3M vinyl tape a recommendation from MarkT. Thanks to both.  :-))


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/23/PSX_20210422_192033.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/23/PSX_20210423_152115.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/23/PSX_20210422_192043.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/23/PSX_20210423_152127.jpg)


Then add red...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/23/PSX_20210423_152203.jpg)


And remove the 3M tape...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/23/PSX_20210423_191211.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/23/PSX_20210423_191237.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/23/PSX_20210423_191300.jpg)


A couple of minor areas where red has seeped under the tape, but probably my fault rather than the tape. Shouldn't to too tricky to fix.


It's starting to look like a Riva...  :-))


Plan now, I'm going to let the red cure for a couple of days then use some cutting compound just to smooth the finish and edges then gloss sealing spray over the white and red.


Great weekend to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 01, 2021, 05:42:24 pm
Afternoon All


Slow week, been busy in the garden...


Have cut back the hull paint and masked up the boat again.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/01/PSX_20210501_172719.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/01/PSX_20210501_172739.jpg)


And applied the first clearcoat gloss. Will see how it dries, but I'm thinking three coats required.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/01/PSX_20210501_172835.jpg)


Have clearcoated the inside of the exhausts too. After the clearcoat I can seal the exhausts in place.


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 02, 2021, 05:21:21 pm
Clearcoats done. Props on and grubscrews threadlocked. Rudders in and greased. Exhaust flanges being shaped and drilled to take 1.2mm stainless screws. I think the flanges will just be aesthetic, applied once exhausts are bonded on place. But they'll look the part...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/02/PSX_20210502_154900.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/02/Screenshot_20210502-154721_Photoshop-Express.jpg)



Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on May 02, 2021, 10:09:05 pm
Looks the part! Was the red line painted with a brush or sprayed out of interest?
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 03, 2021, 07:41:10 am
Morning Stuw
The red line was brushed on. That may have been an error on my part with hindsight. I did get the red in a spray can too, but my experience with spraying the white was the it was really thin, and prone to creeping under the tape.
The painted line didn't creep, but isn't as smooth as I'd like, it left brushmarks, hence I had to re mask and cut it back. Then I clearcoated to bring back the red gloss, and blend it in better.
If I were to do it again, best results would come from an airbrush I think. Which I don't have...
Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on May 03, 2021, 09:14:44 am
I think that its turned out really nicely Dave you've made a nice job of it.


If you get paint creep the easiest way to solve this is to do the following.


Mask up your line and the entire boat to stop any over spray and then spray a fine layer of white.  Let this dry for about 15 minutes and this thin layer seals the edges of the masking tape.  Now spray the red and get the masking tape off as soon as you possibly can.  I never leave it more than 5 minutes after the final coat


Mark
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on May 03, 2021, 10:05:23 am
That's useful to know Mark.

She's looking lovely David, won't be long before she's on the water.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 03, 2021, 02:33:36 pm
Mr T... That's a great solution, makes perfect sense. I'm learning so much with this build, and that's a gem, thanks for sharing your experience.
I have a second Aquarama in mind when this one's ready. I've learnt so much I really want to plough that experience into another build.
Meanwhile, exhausts are installed, so now the hull is watertight, I can see a lake test coming up...
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/03/PSX_20210503_142312.jpg)
Thanks guys.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on May 03, 2021, 02:49:59 pm
Your welcome mate you can also use a clear coat to seal the edges too just never let it dry.  The grain in the wood above the paint looks awesome - I really like mahogany its just a lovely wood to work with  :-)   Looking forward to more updates
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 03, 2021, 04:59:48 pm
Agreed that the mahogany looks beautiful, here's another pic. And you have to build one..!


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/03/PSX_20210503_165131.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on May 03, 2021, 05:07:29 pm
Looks great! Great tip about spraying white first too. Iím learning from all your efforts - thanks.


Quick question to anyone if I may?
If youíre applying more than one coat of white for example. Do you spray one coat and remove tape, allow to harden over a few days, then remask and repeat ó


or do you apply the coats after each other before first one dry?


Probably a ridiculously stupid question. The thought of trying to remask perfectly multiple times was putting me off! But it may be the correct way.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: SailorGreg on May 03, 2021, 05:55:49 pm
Not a stupid question, but yes, the prospect of re-masking for every coat is frightening.  Apply multiple cpats one after the other, leaving 10 or 15 minutes between coats.  As long as you don't spray too heavily, you will build up a nice even coat in an hour or so.  And as has been said, carefully peel away the tape before the paint hardens to prevent any flaking off.  Job done.

Greg
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 03, 2021, 06:16:50 pm
Think that would be my understanding too. (Now...) Overcoat when touch dry but not cured, build up a few coats, then off with the tape. Ease it back over itself, and off.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 04, 2021, 07:27:11 pm
Just realised there are still two holes up near the bow that need to be sorted before a lake test is a good idea. Could just tape over, but really the job needs doing...


So the dock lights need to be fully fitted.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/04/PSX_20210504_181352.jpg)


I have a couple of the Cap Marquettes dock lights kindly sent over by UKMike. I'm going to modify them a shade, but use them as a basis.


The inside of the dock lights need to be white, so will be painted as they're currently chrome. Then I'm going to thin the original flanges, cut some acetate sheet to seal the units, and then finish with the Amati supplied flanges. And finish with 1.2mm Stainless screws. Same as exhausts.


Made a start today by creating a basic rig to hold the units so I can work on them. Here's the start point.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/04/PSX_20210504_181420.jpg)


So above are the original flanges that need thinning, and below are the Amati flanges that will be polished up and will take the screws.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/04/PSX_20210504_181449.jpg)


Will update when they're further along.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 09, 2021, 08:30:42 am
Morning All


Busy week but had some time yesterday to progress the dock lights.
So, all drilled and complete on the build rig.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/08/PSX_20210508_223658.jpg)


Screws are 1.2mm stainless. Acetate sheet is fitted but hard to see... And here the units are fitted to the hull.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/08/PSX_20210508_223832.jpg)


Very pleased with the result. They're sealed and look pretty realistic I think, a hybrid of kit and Cap Marquettes hardware. Voltage is adjustable, looks like it needs upping a shade.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/08/PSX_20210508_223738.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/08/PSX_20210508_223809.jpg)


So now the hull is sealed and ready for a test run I think...


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/08/PSX_20210508_223901.jpg)


Best regards to all. David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on May 09, 2021, 08:39:20 am
I would be scared of testing such a great looking boat!
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on May 09, 2021, 02:35:00 pm
Beautiful work David - very clever work too making hybrid lights.  They look very realistic
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 09, 2021, 08:18:16 pm
Thanks Both. This is the full sized dock lights to compare.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/09/Screenshot_20210509-195809_Pinterest.jpg)


Looking forward to getting the boat on the water for a test. This week I hope. Will be videoing the run...
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 23, 2021, 05:51:46 pm
Afternoon All


Just spent a couple of hours on the Riva. Got the windscreen conformed to the correct curve and the deck drilled to take it. Also the various upholstery panels finished and in place.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/23/PSX_20210523_174533.jpg)


Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 24, 2021, 10:33:37 am
Morning All


Waiting for some free time and better weather to do some water tests. Here's a few pics of the pretty much finished running gear:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/24/20210524_092228.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/24/20210524_092246.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/24/20210524_092427.jpg)


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on May 25, 2021, 08:06:52 am
Looks ready!
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on May 30, 2021, 08:52:15 pm
Got the Aquarama wet today..! (18 months since opening the box...)

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/30/PSX_20210530_182629.jpg)

Went pretty well. No water inside, always good. Waterline is good, some more fittings to be added so hull will eventually sit a little lower. Slight list to port, not sure why but will keep that in mind. Water pump works as does the sound system. Motor and ESCs did get warm so I will route some water to them. Motors only drew 9A as a maximum, so I may look as coarser props. Top speed was OK. But could do with a little more, especially if pulling a skier. I guess I might not need the 3:2 reduction that I built in, could even try reversing the gears for a higher shaft speed... Some options to think about.

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/30/PSX_20210530_182704.jpg)

Outing was to the Elmbridge Model Club lake at Egham. I'm not a member yet, but a very warm welcome from the guys down there. And a very impressive collection of IC powerboats...


I'm pleased with the chine mods, water is deflected out and down and the hull rides high and dry. Doesn't dig in on the turns, and handles well at all speeds.

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/30/PSX_20210530_182741.jpg)

And a video if anyone's interested...

https://youtu.be/iOqXcmdjqSs (https://youtu.be/iOqXcmdjqSs)

Now the work on the details and fittings....

Regards to all
David.

(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/30/PSX_20210530_182724.jpg)
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Ralph on May 30, 2021, 09:27:14 pm
That's looking really nice on the water.


A lovely job  :-))


Ralph
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on May 30, 2021, 09:45:07 pm
Congratulations David  :-))  very nice
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on May 30, 2021, 11:37:22 pm
Superb on water video David


.......lumpy engine tick over  :-)) ......[bang-clang]   ....then from ...10 to 40 seconds, I thought she had a terminal transmission failure >>:-(
.......until she turned & went ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM O0  [into the distance]


Derek




PS.....may need to periodically check those Teflon washers at the propellers as any increase in speed/thrust may have a tendency to squeeze the thickness of the washers ...I suppose any increase in diameter could be a tell tale!
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 01, 2021, 01:53:55 pm
Afternoon All


Thanks for the comments.


The early part of the video was the boat doing a 270 degree rotation on shafts only. I haven't had chance to check the running gear over but will be doing now it's had a run. The majority of the thrust should be passed to the motor mounts, so hopefully the Teflon washers remain intact. But I'll be checking for sure.


The sound system could do with tweaking a bit. It's not going up the rev range far enough. Having said that it's only at low speed and near the bank that it's really going to be heard.


I don't Iike the brushless whine... the motors are rigidly mounted, so not sure what I can really do at this stage. As has been suggested. I'll try to start thinking of it as turbos doing their thing.


Props are 1415 Prop Shop items, I've ordered a set of 1517 items with a bit more pitch to see how they perform.


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on June 02, 2021, 09:23:36 am
Looks and sounds good but I see what you mean about the brushless motors whining! Not sure how to stop it though unless you change gear ratios to drop the motor revs? Or maybe increase them in case there is a harmonic being set up? Havenít a clue but looks fantastic and that boating lake looks good.


 I wonder if that might be a good venue for my Javelin if/when I get it finished? Iím wary of the fact my controlling skills are a bit rusty and wouldnít want to embarrass myself.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on June 02, 2021, 09:52:23 am
I believe itís the escís that create the whine. Not really much you can do about it.
Also get the whine on brushed motors from escís like Mtronics as I discovered in a tug I bought built.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 02, 2021, 10:53:42 am
Hi Chaps


The EBC lake at Egham is very good, lakeside parking, rescue boat, landing stage.  And I believe the club owns it plus some of the land around it.


I think I have to accept the sound with this build. I think you are right about the ESCs Andy, I tweaked the ESCs I thought to be outside hearing range, but maybe not... I was thinking that as I'm using a gearbox that supports the prop shaft on ball races, it could be them. I've a mind to learn from this build and scale up the Amati plans to 1/6 or 1/7, and try to iron out some of the issues.


Regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Taranis on June 02, 2021, 10:57:22 am
As you know mine is direct drive but its just as noisy due to the frequency of the sound. However out on the water its barely noticeable.

Bigger is so much better  O0  but I have too many models to make to devote to one

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 10, 2021, 09:24:33 am
Morning All


Not had much time with the Aquarama of late. I've been spending some time with the Cutwater. Its been curved and then soft solder spot filleted to hold it together, then fitted a little better and once the final shape arrived at, a full fillet of soft solder run up the inside. I used a soldering iron, and then a small torch to flow the solder.  I've deliberately filled the screw holes at the leading edge. They're so close to the leading edge it's going to be very tricky to get screws into them, real or just decorative heads.  I was going to re drill them a little further away from the edge, but I actually like the cleaner look:


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/10/20210606_172933-Custom.jpg)


I'm still in the process of drilling out all the holes, then countersinking the cutwater for the 1.2mm CS SS Screws. For the final fit I'll add some epoxy to the screw threads to seal as they go. (Unless anyone has a better plan...)


[size=78%]


The filled and buffed screw holes are just visible in the pic above, in reality they're very hard to see.


Very best regards to all.
David.[/size]
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 27, 2021, 06:40:12 pm
Evening All
Been looking at the various rubbing strips.  Amati provide some white plastic and suggest painting it chrome. I purchased some chrome car trim, but decided to try 4mm brass D section. I milled out a 4mm slot in some nylon to hold the brass for drilling ready for 1.2mm SS screws.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/25/PSX_20210625_224059.jpg)


This is the stern water level rubbing strips / fenders.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/26/PSX_20210626_192534.jpg)


And the first deck level rubbing strip.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/27/PSX_20210627_165442.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/27/PSX_20210627_165418.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/27/PSX_20210627_171700.jpg)


Strips will then be chromed before final fitting.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/27/PSX_20210627_181454.jpg)


Best regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on June 28, 2021, 10:48:53 am
This looks extremely high quality to complement the rest of your work!
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on June 30, 2021, 10:43:38 am
Hey Stuw


Thanks for that.  Slow progress...  Not sure if its just that time of the year, or a bit busier with business, but a bit frustrated here at the lack of time I have for the boat...


I've now got the starboard rubbing strip drilled / twisted / shaped / polished and temporarily fitted.  Pleased to be using the brass, its going to look the part when chromed.


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/30/20210630_102825-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/30/20210630_102832-Custom.jpg)


(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/30/20210630_102947-Custom.jpg)


Not too happy with the Amati Musetto up at the bow.  I know UKMike has created his own for his 1/6 build. The Amati version is made up of 3 cast pieces in this version of the kit.  Giving some thought as to how it could be created in brass.


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ukmike on June 30, 2021, 10:32:07 pm
Hi David.


If you do make a new Musetto I would recommend that you use Copper plate. It anneals to a far softer / pliable state than Brass and stays annealed for far longer, allowing you to manipulate it more. Brass hardens very quickly and doesn't like re bending / shaping without re annealing, particularly on a smaller scale pieces.


Just as a matter of interest, the fixed inverted Chevron louvres on the full size Musetto were for allowing air into the FWD cabin which intern had closable / adjustable louvres, operated from the inside, hence the need for the black paint behind the Chevrons.


Boat looks superb.


Mike.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Mark T on July 03, 2021, 04:31:28 pm
Hi David


Just catching up with the forum and I agree with Mike about the use of copper, it's far easier to work with and is just a more malleable metal.


And yea - it does look superb  :-))
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on October 26, 2021, 06:00:08 pm
Hi All


So...  No real excuses for being AWOL, the real world just keeps getting in the way... But hoping to get back on with the build.


Not tackled the Musetto yet, in copper or brass...


I've made a few tweaks to bring on the skiing hardware, detailed on separate thread: [size=78%]https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=64973 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=64973)[/size]


I do have a couple of the larger diameter and increased pitch props delivered from Prop Shop:


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/10/25/20211025_093301-Custom.jpg)


Original 1415 on the right, new 1517 on the left. Should give a bit more bite.  I need to make up some small spacers for the shafts as the blades are a bit too close to the hull for comfort...   {:-{


I've taken delivery of some sheet ply and MDF to put together a storage and transport case. I'm not sure at the moment whether to make it top or side loading for the boat.  Any words of wisdom..?


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/10/25/20211025_093207-Custom.jpg)


I've also noticed that the varnish has now cured a lot harder, so will be giving it another machine polish before too long.


Very best regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 05, 2021, 04:54:54 pm
Afternoon All


Some progress to report.  The Aquarama now has a removable Ski pole, with removable Ski line, and control lines going from the two servos under the pole to the ski handle.  Work on the skis and skier are ongoing.  I did question myself for doing this work at this stage, the ski arrangement is a functional part of the build, so I think best to do it before a lot of the detailing.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/05/20211105_164016-Custom.jpg)


Control lines go inside the main ski line.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/05/20211105_164039-Custom.jpg)


Regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: derekwarner on November 05, 2021, 11:59:28 pm
Possibly a selfish point David, but I would not like to see a model skier get tangled up in the ski rope & the drive shaft & doing damage to the drive >>:-(
Skiers are a dime a dozen [just watch them by the shoreline], a drive shaft is unique  :-)) 


Derek
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 06, 2021, 08:26:02 am
Hi Derek, agreed, that would not be a good outcome. I'll check to see whether the line floats, that would be helpful.  But whether it does or not,  with skier in the water some tension can be maintained in the line with a small dose of forward throttle. It's going to be interesting...  :-))


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 18, 2021, 10:31:07 am
Finally making a little progress on the Aquarama.  I've stripped out most of the electronics so I can route the wires correctly and mainly out of sight.


Added cooling to the motor mounts:


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/18/20211117_203208-Custom.jpg)





I've started looking at the upholstery, sun deck and coaming padding to start...  I'm using 2mm Plastazote sheets as a backing for the faux leather.  Original Amati rubber version on top, my version beneath, this is a sample piece but I think it looks OK, now working on the real pieces.  Bit of a weigh saving here too, the Amati pieces are quite heavy.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/18/20211117_203323-Custom.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/18/20211117_203245-Custom.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/18/20211117_203603-Custom.jpg)


Regards to all
David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: tsenecal on November 18, 2021, 09:34:45 pm
David,

i think your padding looks more realistic than the amati original.  more "fabric-y"
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on November 19, 2021, 11:07:51 am
David

Looks good. How do you form the "seams"?

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 19, 2021, 06:11:17 pm
Hi Chris


I contact glued the faux leather to the plastazote foam, then used this:


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/19/20211119_180415-Custom.jpg)


With a clamp for a few hours, then worked along...  Seems to retain the indent OK...


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/19/20211119_180426-Custom.jpg)


Can't claim credit for the approach, saw it on another Aquarama build, a German link I think.  Will make up a larger version for the seats, I thought the coaming padding was an easier place to start.  Will post the full padding set when its ready.


Best regards
David.

Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on November 19, 2021, 09:27:08 pm
Thanks David

Seems like a good approach for when I finally get to the seating etc. in my various Fairey builds. Look forward to seeing how you deal with the seats.

I thought that some sort of heating had been employed - I never would have thought of producing the desired effect like that - shows how good it is to learn from others.

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on November 20, 2021, 08:33:01 am
Indeed. Iíd imagined a soldering iron dangled nearby but this method gives you a great result! Nice work
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 20, 2021, 08:48:49 am
Morning Both

I was thinking that there are some sections that will probably need a heat gun to help the material soften to allow it to conform to a smooth curve without wrinkling. The deck of the Aquarama across its beam has a lovely shape. I'm thinking glue the foam to the faux leather, soften the faux leather in the curved areas, conform it to wrap around the foam backing, then clamp it.

But maybe you're right. Generally adding some heat would shorten the clamping time when applying the indents, I'll try that and report back.  :-))

Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 21, 2021, 05:24:46 pm
Had a couple of hours on the boat upholstery today.


Trimmed the 2mm plastazote sheet to the shapes of the cockpit and sundeck coaming.  Contact adhesive to attach the foam to the faux leather material. Then trimmed the faux leather to allow it to be folded over the edge of the fom, and glued. Just had to slice the overlap in a couple of places around the curved areas to persuade it to take the correct shape.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/21/PSX_20211121_170541.jpg)


I've added a few more 'teeth' to the indent tool so I can clamp about 20 indents at a time. I'm heating a little to soften the faux leather (thanks Chris...) Then clamping for a few hours or overnight. Seems to be doing the job.


This is a fit check for the cockpit coaming before the indents are applied:


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/21/PSX_20211121_170723.jpg)


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on November 21, 2021, 05:54:22 pm
Glad to help, even if it was a guess! Where do you get your Plastazote and faux leather from?

Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 21, 2021, 07:11:11 pm
Hi Chris


This is the 2mm foam:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0074GOJ1E (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0074GOJ1E)


And the Faux Leather. I think its same as UKMike uses. It's the thinnest I've seen, you can order a small sample. Then if its right I ordered a 1mx1.4m piece.  I used light cream, and some of the red too as a highlight and piping.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00OYTSVN6 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00OYTSVN6)


Best regards
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: ChrisF on November 21, 2021, 07:41:36 pm
Thanks David, that's great.


I might get my wife interested once I get to the upholstery!


Chris
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 23, 2021, 03:54:04 pm
Afternoon All


Dry fit at the moment, but I think the sundeck surround is coming along:


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/23/PSX_20211123_104501.jpg)


Also working on the aluminium case that holds the ESCs. I've decided to add two 20mm fans to draw air though the case. It got a bit warm on the test run.  Its not ideal, I wanted to use water cooling but couldn't think how to do it with the volume constraints in the case.  The case will still act as a heatsink and also a duct for the airflow.  I'm thinking maybe a temperature sensor to power up the fans, either standalone or using the ESCs own telemetry...


Putting the indents on the cockpit coaming now and will post again when its all ready.


Regards to all.
David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 24, 2021, 02:29:39 pm
OK, still dry fit for the time being, but now the coaming for the cockpit and sun deck are done.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/24/20211124_133701-Custom.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/24/20211124_133609-Custom.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/24/20211124_133626-Custom.jpg)


Onto the seating, a sterner test I think...


Best regards to all.
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 28, 2021, 08:04:21 pm
Evening All
A few hours of progress over the weekend.
I've added in three more sensor points for detection of water in the Bilge. These are now by each of the rudders and prop shaft seals. They come back to the port electronics case then via an Arduino to register as telemetry on the transmitter.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/28/PSX_20211127_175211.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/28/PSX_20211127_175311.jpg)


Also finished the ESC case mods. The pair of fans, and I've ditched the solid mount. It makes for a better airflow and cable route. But also allows the ESC case to be isolated from the hull using some of the foam. If the ESCs are contributing to the high frequency sounds, this might help.


To keep power consumption down I've decided to  control when the fans are active using a logical switch in OpenTX that monitors the ESC temperatures, so when they hit a set temperature, the fans power up.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/28/PSX_20211127_175021.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/28/PSX_20211127_175253.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/28/PSX_20211127_175111.jpg)


I have added some of the faux leather to the sundeck surround to get a better finish.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/28/PSX_20211127_175326.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/28/PSX_20211128_191657.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/28/PSX_20211128_191642.jpg)


I've started to create a new tool to apply the cushioning indents to the cockpit seats. Will then start to experiment...


Regards to all
David.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: DJW on November 30, 2021, 01:35:23 pm
I've made up the wider tool for applying the seat indents and used it on a test piece.  This test piece is 5mm balsa and 5mm Plastazote foam.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/20211130_092003-Custom.jpg)


Then clamped overnight to get the indents into the foam.


Resulting in this, which is a start...


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/20211130_092015-Custom.jpg)


Then added some UHU Power glue.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/20211130_092159-Custom.jpg)


Added the faux leather and clamped for about 2 hours...


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/20211130_092435-Custom.jpg)


And this is the result.


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/20211130_114046-Custom.jpg)


And I'm happy with that.  I'm hoping that the glue with go some way to stabilising the indents, I'll leave it a few days and we'll see.


On another matter, I thought the Aquarama deserved a proper stand as its got this far.  So I've made one up that resembles a hauling out sled (well I think it does...).


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/20211130_121109-Custom.jpg)


(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/20211130_121206-Custom.jpg)


Its going to get a coat of grey, and the areas that touch the hull will get some padding.


Best regards to all.
David.



Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: Stuw on November 30, 2021, 04:54:03 pm
Wonderful work! Still Enjoying the photos of your progress.
Title: Re: David's Amati Riva Aquarama Build - With some mods...
Post by: SteamboatPhil on December 01, 2021, 07:19:08 pm
Brilliant  :-))