I asked Lesro if they were able to print a set of plans for the Rapier - and they can!
Today I received the invoice for the plans, so I have transferred the cash and look forward to seeing them!
Hello
Could you say what sort of cost Lesro charged you for a set of plans
I asked Lesro if they were able to print a set of plans for the Rapier - and they can!
Today I received the invoice for the plans, so I have transferred the cash and look forward to seeing them!
That's great news. Nice to have as well as helping with the rebuild.
Chris
You certainly take some projects on! After these two refurbishments future builds will be a walk in the park.
As for good quality ply I don't go anywhere else but SLEC.
Chris
Hi Zooma
I have that motor in my Huntsman on 3S with 40mm 2 blade prop, it goes very nicely.
My mate has the same in his Spearfish on 4S and the thing is a rocket!!!
Canabus
30 or 40 years(?) after it was first designed .... that Still a Great shape for a model boat! :-))
(https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64555.0;attach=201678;image)
Hi Zooma
The motor does not require watercooling if you do not over prop it !!!
I have never used watercooling on any of my boats.
Canabus
Hi Zooma, it could be an alignment issue or the coupling itself?
Good to see that you are thinking of building a Swordsman again. Then of course there are the Huntress and Huntsman 28 and 31 from the 60s!
Chris
Hi Bob,
What's the shaft lubricated with?
Tony
Hi Bob
You've certainly got the alignment covered so as you say it could be resonance. I'd be wary of using expanding foam though as there has been reports of it continuing to expand when restrained and damaging the hull.
The Aerokits Swordsman was at a scale of 1/12 which as you say is a nice size and is the scale that I'm building all my Fairey models to. I did modify the drawings to produce the raised roof aft cabin version which I'm currently building and SLEC/DM now do a kit of it at 1:16 scale. The full sized Swordsman at 33 feet is a much bigger boat than the Huntress at 23 feet.
I'm currently sticking to just Fairey models and that's still giving me plenty to go at!
Chris
At least it's your thread Bob, but you're right.
Perhaps you could start a build blog on the Swordsman once you get going.
Chris
Bob
As I said a good find and great that the contents are so good.
The ball-raced prop shafts I use are the Raboesch Maintenance Free rated to 15k. revs ones which are nicely made. I get mine from Cornwall Model Boats.
Chris
Have really enjoyed reading this post. I inherited a full Rapier kit a couple of years ago in it’s original box. The build hadn’t been started and so I have been trying to find time this year to put the model together. I am getting there and this post is being really helpful. Thanks
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts after the first sea trials with the new motor.
I haven't decided what to fit in the Sea Rover, Sea Commander and small Huntsman yet and they're all 29" - 36"
Will
If in doubt, generally Dulux Trade Exterior Gloss paints (Builders Merchant) are spirit base while "normal" Dulux Exterior Gloss (Hardware Shops) are water based.
It's the word Trade on the tin that's important.
Also, watch out for other Akzo paints such as Hammerite, since they've changed solvents and it's iffy using old H solvent to clean new H paint off the brush.
Glad to hear that what you thought might have been a bit of a disaster, turned out to be otherwise.
At least you don't have to try and clean bits/all of it up to try doing it a 2nd time.
I think it could be a process of elimination.
Worst case scenario, you don't manage to cure it completely, even if you only manage to reduce it, that will be an improvement.
Bob
As I said a good find and great that the contents are so good.
The ball-raced prop shafts I use are the Raboesch Maintenance Free rated to 15k. revs ones which are nicely made. I get mine from Cornwall Model Boats.
Chris
Thanks Bob.
Mine does support both ends and I see now that my can is quite long. Will give it a go. My motor has a cooling jacket but I found this mount a handy setup even if I don’t use the front cooling points. As you say if I change motor at some point it could come in handy.
Hi Stu
The flared part is actually the housing for the ball-race, so is removeable and the prop tube can be pushed into place no problem. Once everything is in place the housing can be epoxied to the tube. Intention was to first try it with the housing just taped in place but some of the epoxy from gluing the tube in place must have wicked up inside the housing and it's now glued! Evidently if you do want to remove it in the future you apply some heat.
One photo shows the housing removed when I was cutting the tube down to size and the other shows the motor and prop shaft etc. in place.
Chris
Hi Bob
The housing is a good fit but not a friction fit so it needs securing in place.
Chris
Stu
As Bob says the type of motor mount that you have is best for your inrunner motor but to answer your question the ones I use are bought.
They are aluminium and are for 500/600 motors and have the correct mounting centres for the brushless motors that I use. I bought them from Cornwall Model Boats and EBay (Anglia Model Centre) and had assumed they were made in China. However since Anglia shut down they are no longer available anywhere and so I guess they had them made. CMB still do one in aluminium but it's for 700 motors so too big.
Fortunately I bought 4 so enough for my current builds that need them but I wish I'd bought more now! They are available in black plastic/nylon but I do like the alloy ones after I've filed out the witness marks and given them a polish!
Chris
Hi Chris,
I didn't know that the bearing housing was not permanently fixed onto the Raboesch prop shaft tube when it is supplied new - it certainly makes it easier to install the shaft into an existing hull and then push the bell-ended bearing housing back on when the shaft is installed in the hull.
It also makes it easier to get the right size shaft as their size range in M5 is a bit limited, so cutting it down to size with a pull-off bearing end makes a really easy job.
Does the ball raced bell housing have a tight enough "friction fit" to stay put without being epoxied in place?
If it does, it would also make it easy to service and lubricate the ball race and also replace the ball bearings when they get worn too :-))
Hope your builds are going well!
Bob.
Hi Stu
Just checked the 4mm prop shaft bearing housing and it's 20mm long.
I tend to use the longer prop shafts in my builds and the 5mm shaft/10mm outer is a bit of a beast! Fine in the Swordsman but it's not right for the svelte Huntsman 31 (much too heavy and doesn't look right) so I've got a 4mm/8mm for that. For long prop shafts it's often recommended to go for 5mm but as Raboesch is quality stuff and I'm guessing they wouldn't make a long 4mm if it didn't work.
All my motors are lower kV than yours as I tend to choose within 800 - 1100kV and then choose the LiPos to give me around 10/11k. revs which is safely within the 15k. max.
I just fancied using the maintenance free prop shafts but the conventional ones, especially the better quality ones, are obviously fine as the speed merchants, Harry (Canabus) and Bob can verify.
Chris
Stu
As Bob says the type of motor mount that you have is best for your inrunner motor but to answer your question the ones I use are bought.
They are aluminium and are for 500/600 motors and have the correct mounting centres for the brushless motors that I use. I bought them from Cornwall Model Boats and EBay (Anglia Model Centre) and had assumed they were made in China. However since Anglia shut down they are no longer available anywhere and so I guess they had them made. CMB still do one in aluminium but it's for 700 motors so too big.
Fortunately I bought 4 so enough for my current builds that need them but I wish I'd bought more now! They are available in black plastic/nylon but I do like the alloy ones after I've filed out the witness marks and given them a polish!
Chris
Thanks Bob,
Yep I’m going to go for M5 maxishaft with a Powerflex coupling and buy the alignment version as well to make sure it’s all in line. Think I’m going to add a P bracket as well as my old home made skeg hasn’t survived. I see your Javelin is sporting one.
Another stupid question but is P38 the favoured filler for wood model boats? I see many references on here. I’ve bought some mantua filler (hasn’t arrived yet) and also have some white putty epoxy which I understand is a combined bonding and filling agent?
Please forgive my lack of knowledge but I’d rather know before I start whether my choice of filler is up to it or not.
Hi Stu
The flared part is actually the housing for the ball-race, so is removeable and the prop tube can be pushed into place no problem. Once everything is in place the housing can be epoxied to the tube. Intention was to first try it with the housing just taped in place but some of the epoxy from gluing the tube in place must have wicked up inside the housing and it's now glued! Evidently if you do want to remove it in the future you apply some heat.
One photo shows the housing removed when I was cutting the tube down to size and the other shows the motor and prop shaft etc. in place.
Chris
Those strakes look great! Mine seem a bit spongy so I’m guessing they might be balsa? Lost their edge definition in places.
Not sure if you’ve seen this but a good picture and article on Lesro Rapier here:
https://iansmodelboats.weebly.com/rapier.html (https://iansmodelboats.weebly.com/rapier.html)
Hi Zooma
I found the red rattle cans cover OK, but yellow requires 5/6 coats !!!
Harry
Hi Zooma
It's a bit cold today with 22C and ramping up to 31C on Friday !!!
Only 26C for sailing on Saturday.
Canabus
Hi zooma;
I am so much interested in your plan of the fast boat to be powered by 2x5600mAh lipos of 65C !!!
When are you supposed to finish it ? Looking forward to a video,please!
She maybe runs partly off the surface like a flying fish.!! %% :D
Another major project Bob! However it looks like you are on a roll with converting old and somewhat unloved or just neglected Rapiers into lovely rejuvenated versions.
I like the modded superstructure. I bought a copy of Radio Control Boat Modeller off eBay in the end for Mar/April 1987 which has a nice article on the Rapier as you’ve no doubt seen. Whilst I was at it I also obtained a couple of old Vic Smeed Boat Modelling and power boat books.
I am so much slower but am learning as I go.
I have and still use this hull and the smaller Stiletto version,
Both very good boats, seaworthy and go well.
There is plenty of enjoyment and fun in this for you.
Great boat and nice project
Cheers
Mark
Hi Zooma
They did sell car clip on day/night visors a few years ago and they had yellow/light black tint .
Canabus
I spotted a use of translucent document wallet plastic on this forum the other day. Will find the link. Canopy glue used to stick it.
Reply #201 and after on most recent page:
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59223.200.html#lastPost (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59223.200.html#lastPost)
For example:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A4-Plastic-wallets-Stud-Document-Wallet-Files-Folders-Filing-School-Office/133656915361?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3Db523c6eca5374c95ba2c8d0cf9118f35%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D162368772954%26itm%3D133656915361%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A4-Plastic-wallets-Stud-Document-Wallet-Files-Folders-Filing-School-Office/133656915361?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3Db523c6eca5374c95ba2c8d0cf9118f35%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D162368772954%26itm%3D133656915361%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1)
Right. Time to get off here and get sawing!
Right. Time to get off here and get sawing!
It’s blunt after doing 6 strakes! %%
Trying to make my motor mount braces from 12mm ply to get a good fixing to my somewhat slightly oily hull as per your suggestion with screw and epoxy. It’s going to be rock solid!
Cut one out by hand but it needs some careful sanding to make it fit properly due to the hull curve in the fore section. I am so slow it’s untrue. I did repair a dining chair today however that was more of a priority. :-))
It’s Friday again! Happy weekend all...
Hi Bob
Where was the cat whilst you were rebuilding its home!
Chris
I wonder what it would look like with an open rear cockpit ? %)
Hi Stuw,
You make a very interesting point about the sound of a glow engine drowning-out any other sounds that could be coming from the hull itself.
Another of the reasons for having a removable motor mounting plate and battery tray etc in my current restorations because this is the same hull as the Javelin (and of course Rapier 2) so at least I can get to the bottom skins if the resonation/vibration is coming from them as (like you) I suspect this could be the case.
The motor and shaft have been carefully aligned using a solid coupling during the build so I know that this area (the most likely cause of excess vibration) is done as well as it can be. I have also tried various propellers and sizes and this has made no difference either!
The engine mounting plate has been securely bonded into the hull and has recently been reinforced, so when combined with the foam and additional engine bay bracing I am hoping that I have solved the problem.
I am aware that Rapier 1 never had the glass fibre chopped matting added to the inside of the hull, and that is something that my more recent restoration models have received and this on its own may help to reduce the resonance or vibration induced sounds?
Harry's friend had a noisy Spearfish, and he solved this problem for him by sticking a couple of long strips of wood lengthwise inside the hull to dampen the vibrations - and this worked, so this is the final option that I will keep in mind if the work I have done so far fails to kill the excess noise.
The truth is that I actually like the sound of Rapier 1 as it reminds me of the pleasure that I enjoyed when running my glow powered powerboats and this boat is at least as fast as they ever were, but I would like to make it run a little quieter if I can as it has become a challenge to identify the cause and resolve it.
Enjoy your weekend!
Bob.
Will
P.s, excuse the very rough painting, touchpad on the laptop isn't god for accuracy.
Bob, I like the idea and design, but am finding that the light and dark of the original and new wood on the cabin make it quite hard to properly gauge.
To me, the light wood contrast to the dark makes the overhang look quite long.
Will
Looks great! Did you use the KCR adhesive for the rubbing strips?
Making good progress there Bob. Definitely starting to take shape now.
That area at the transom that didn't quite reach is an odd one. As you say, it must have leaked like sieve. A strange one that. I'm sure you will sort it and make it completely water tight.
Will
You've got to the exciting point Bob.
Will keep my fingers crossed that it goes as well as you hope, plus that it runs quieter than previously too. I'm sure it will.
I look forward to reading your reports of the sea trial.
Will
Very smart Bob.
I hope she performs as well as she looks :-))
Yes - I did :-))
A 36" rubbing strip made from 1/8 x 1/4 obechie does not go all the way around a 39" hull - so I made the joins for the extension pieces using the KCR adhesive too!
I need to scrape the old paint off of the sides but first I want to finish all of the upside-down work and fit the prop shaft, rudder and water scoop....and plug the holes that will be left as I move the rudder and scoop positions further forwards.
Hi Stuw,
I am away in my van at the moment (no computer) but I gave Rapier1 its first run today after the refit.
The strakes looked great in action and worked well.
The boat was also a little quieter too, so maybe the oversize strakes helped dampen the resonance as well?
Based on this I would definitely recommend that you fit them to both of your Javelin hulls.
Bob,
So is the prop shaft not only shorter, but mounted further forward, or is it just a shorter length of shaft below the hull, placing the prop and therefore thrust more centrally along the waterline length?
If the prop and therefore thrust/propulsion was nearer the stern, then it wouldn't try to lift the whole hull up as well as push forward and would need the increase in speed along the hull, to raise onto the plane. Yes this would mean taking longer/more throttle/increased speed before coming up onto the plane, but would it alter the characteristics of the hull, especially when passing over a wake, I don't know.
Or, are the current characteristics caused by reduced weight compared to how it would have been with the intended power system(i.c or especially electric).
What do you reckon?
Will
Hi Zooma
Run the boat with only one battery as I am only use one in the Huntsman (4S 5000mah Bolt from Hobbyking).
Canabus
Went down the club again with the yachts this morning and seeing a boat on the water thought I recognise that shape! It was confirmed when I saw Stilleto on the side! Nice model with guard rails and other detailing.
Chap left soon as I got there so didn't get chance to ask about it. I will when I see him again.
I think it's only the Huntsman 31 that tends to sit nose down, due in part to the shape of the bow which doesn't offer much support.
Chris
Bob,
So is the prop shaft not only shorter, but mounted further forward, or is it just a shorter length of shaft below the hull, placing the prop and therefore thrust more centrally along the waterline length?
If the prop and therefore thrust/propulsion was nearer the stern, then it wouldn't try to lift the whole hull up as well as push forward and would need the increase in speed along the hull, to raise onto the plane.
What do you reckon?
Will
No apology needed Bob :-))
So like I said, the prop being further forward would increase lift more centrally, rather than from nearer to the stern, which with the longer shaft/prop position being closer to the stern, would keep the bow down a bit, due to the thrust being from further aft.
Add into this, the fact that the whole power plant not only being lighter, is more centrally mounted, the bow is going to be lighter and ride higher.
It could be argued that with a more central balance point the boat will handle better at speed.
So really, I guess it all comes down to if you can live with it as is or whether or not you want to go to the with removing and replacing the shaft, moving the rudder(again) and the motor mount too.
If it goes well, handles and turns well, then as long as the porpoising after crossing a wake isn't too bad or for too long, then I'd be tempted to live with it.
You could try altering battery location(if possible), or adding additional ballast in the bow to see whatdifference it makes, just to satisfy your curiosity.
Will
Sorry to hear this Bob :((
After all the hard work that goes into these builds/restorations it doesn’t take much to potentially undo all the hard work!
Sounds like it’s minor damage?! Wonder what was under the water to get the Rapier airborne?
Could have been a lot worse if you’d been in a collision though!
That's a bummer, though as you say easily fixed.
Given that the rudder hit it the obstacle it must only be just below the surface.
Chris
Bob,
Glad to hear that Rapier1 is behaving well and that you are getting to enjoy it now after all of the hours that you have put into it. Great news :-))
Will
Hi Zooma
What's the CG on your boat ???
Canabus
Hi Tony
What are you doing with the Spearfish Mark 2 ??
I am looking for one !!!
Canabus
Thankfully no snow down with us Bob, just very fresh wind blowing debris around the place.
We haven't got too much in the way of leaves to worry about, just bin day recycling bags and glass recycling boxes, plus the occasional neighbours kids trampoline etc.
Blimey Will - I knew you'd got a Stiletto (from your list) but didn't know you'd also picked up a Javelin and now a Rapier!
I'm feeling left out now, what with Harry having joined the club as well! No, only joking, I've got enough with my Faireys!
Talking of leaves, we get a pile at the front of the house and we don't have any trees in the garden or that near! It's the way the wind blows as the neighbours don't get them. I've filled the bin with one pile and will have to do it a couple more times over the coming weeks.
Chris
Thanks for the offer Bob but I'm sticking to my Fairey only plan!
Certainly until I've finished all the ones I want to build.
Chris
Hi Zooma
Send it to Tasmania, to dry the paint !!!!
25C today !!!
Canabus
Good to see your making progress Bob. I have no time for my boats at the moment. Lockdown got me motivated but now I have too many other things to do. I shall return though and it’s nice to read and see the progress of others on these threads.
Just been having a read back through this thread out of interest, and didn't realise Bob, that your modifications to Rapier 2 included extending the wheelhouse roof back and alterations to the windows which do make it look more modern.
Chris
Hi Bob
Yeah, I know what you mean, as the roof extension is usually associated with sport fishing boats which have an open cockpit. Depends on whether you have a window in the rear of the wheelhouse as well I suppose?
Chris
I wonder where you get into a Rapier!
Chris
Rapier 1 looks very smart on the water there Bob and appears to go pretty well too.
You've done a cracking job of it.
Time to get some fun from using it now.
Will
How far have you got with your other Rapiers? You need another one ready for the water so that you can alternate when one is in dry dock for maintenance and repairs.
That's what I need, a workhorse type of boat, that can be run in various weather conditions and not be precious about. The Rapier tackles the choppy water really well. Being quite a big boat helps of course.
Chris
Hi Bob / Chris
I had issues with dust on my build. I saw some comments to use a bathroom to let the model dry in, assuming its tiled there should be less dust, and you may be able to use the extractor fan and keep any doors and windows closed. Haven't tried it yet, but will be come the time.
Best regards
David.
When I did my high speed steam boat, I used a badger hair brush, thinned to 20% paint and 80 % thinners ( for the first of 10 coats of paint) I painted last thing at night under a wet tent (which is basically a damp sheet) OK so it took me over 6 months but the finish (like glass) is still as good today as when I did just over 20 years ago.
Ohh you have to love patience :-))
Bit of a milestone for me today. I'm just about to start putting some paint on a couple of Fairey hulls!
Chris
That's great news Chris.
As much of a shame as it will be to cover up that lovely woodwork, it'll be great seeing them with some colour on.
Will
Thanks chaps. I sometimes wish I had concentrated on just the one and got it on the water ages ago! But then I look at all of them!
Chris
Good to hear that Rapier #1 has been getting some water time.
Must have been nice to have a pretty empty lake, with only one other moving target.
Will