Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: Andy M on March 26, 2020, 02:58:10 pm
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Here is my latest project, as a change from my quadcopter (based) flying objects, or QFO's, I have decided to do some recycling and create a new model from a terrible rc car, it was controlled by moving the controller. Really hard to master, so I had transplanted its 100mah lipo into my silverlit z century 4ch helicopter with impressive results, better duration than the 130mah it came with, which had died after long service. The lighter battery also gave it better power to weight ratio than the original cell. Removing the cars battery left me with a dead car tho, but after posting my pics of tug from a tank, sold years ago, I have realised I miss my wee tug boat, so I am going to try making a tug from a terrible car. The pic shows the bits beside my 23cm cruiser, also powered by rc car gear. The reason I am choosing a tug is mainly weight, I will probably be using a bigger lipo than the cars original one, maybe even one of my recycled e cigarette batteries at about 330 mah, but only if I have space for it, I am going to make it pretty small. I have loads (and loads) of small offcuts of 1/32 balsa leftover from qfo projects, so this should give me a chance to use them up. The main things I have to come up with are a prop and shaft, and also a rudder, so I will hunt out parts to make a start on these. I hope to make the tug at about 6 inches long, or less if I can. (but longer if I have to)
I still have some motor pods from cheap submarines bought from superdrug years ago, I may choose to power it with one of these, as this will eliminate water ingress through a propshaft, leaving only the rudder to worry about. They are quite draggy tho, but on a tug this shouldnt matter too much. I have used these with success on my 12 inch miami crash boat, a shell welder plastic kit tanker and also a kgv battleship plastic kit which is awaiting finishing. I have soldered a small battery socket onto the board to make sure it still works...... it does, so the project is a go. 😁
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Ever thought of setting up the submarine pods as azimoth pods, rotate the pod to steer and do away with the rudder :D
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I found a powerpod, not the ones I was thinking about, turns out I had used them on the kgv battleship, not my nicest installation, but it does work, I tested it without finishing it, Surprised how much lead went in to get it to the waterline. Relatively anyway, its a narrow model. I could fit a few of my recycled bosch cells in it for a few days worth of sailing 😁
The powerpod is a one off, from a tiny twin motored jetski I got on holiday, great little toy, until I dropped it about a foot up beside the bath, snapping motor shaft off flush with the front of the motor, fun over. Now, after 10 years in a box, its going to be perfect. The board in my donor car had a speaker blasting out race car noises and reversing bleeper, wont be needing that! So thats been desoldered and stuck in a box. Lol. The steering will probably have to use much of what is there to function properly, but it hasnt much throw or strength. How much will a half inch square rudder take? I did think of turning the pod, but I honestly dont think the steering has the power to move and hold against the thrust of the pod. With a rudder, I think I should be ok, I can increase it in various ways once I get some testing and measuring done. I havent opened the steering unit up yet, I dont really want to disturb the wires, yes there are wires, where's me magnifying glass..... Solder them, eh, no, can hardly see them😁 so they will stay attached to the board, pretty sure the wires are plenty to reach most places on a 6 inch boat. Just need to be super careful handling them/it.
I am looking forward to this project, I was thinking it will be mostly for the bath, due to the restrictions at the moment, but I noticed it is 2.4ghz so it may prove to have longer range than expected. I will test that later.
I was going to call it the SIT
Self Isolation Tug 😁😁😁 its also the position from which you operate it 😀
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My tug is going to have lights too. If only the sound chip wasnt a racing car noise......
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There we go, done, red base coat on, detailing soon............
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Only kidding, this is a 3d printed one I did last year, 150 mm long (exactly! Lol) I actually forgot I had printed it and the tiny, tiny one. It is good to show me just how small 6 inch - ish is, considering I am having some hull thickness taken off the interior volume as well, I know I could hollow out the 3d printed one, but I want a wood build, use some of my scraps up. For those of you that are into printing, the 3d printed one prints out with no support, even the cabin roof underside turned out ok. And railings! It even had aerials, one about 13 mm high! Well done my cheapo printer😁 the aerials got snapped off pretty quick. I did about 10 rolls of filaments worth of most varied stuff you could think of. From 2 ft space 1999 eagle, lancia stratos body for my mini race car,articulated snails with a door that opens on their clip on shells, m16 mag adaptor for my bb sniper rifle taking it to about 75 shots from 16, was a pig of a project, had to modify it a lot on cura then print two separate bits and superglue them together and bore them both at a 'just made it' angle then fit a 4mm section of e-cigarette stainless tubing with a card spacer into the 75 round magazine mouth. Works tho, 75 without loading is pretty good. Anyway, I headed off on a 3d printing train of thought there. Back to the tug, I am going to have to change the hull shape quite a bit from the 3d one, to get my stuff in. I will probably build the hull around the motor pod. I will probably go for something a bit like my tug from a tank, so I have a hatch extending back allowing me some access to rudder bits. These bits will probably be mostly covered by rear decking as I build it, just need to make sure the non gettable bits are ultra reliable. I was wondering about building the hull up in 1/32 balsa layers, as I have loads, in different shades of balsa, to give a nice planked effect when varnished? Or just glue 5 big scraps of 1/4 inch and start whittlin, lol. Pretty tempting for quickness, but I got some time, I hope, touch balsa. Will do a sketch soon. That will make my mind up.
I am going to start another thread called
How to disguise your toilet rolls as a radio controlled boat. Ha ha. 😁
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Initial plan sketch. 185 mm long.
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Do I need a keel?, I would like a bit for the bottom end of my rudder shaft to sit in. Will it turn better with a keel?
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Bit done last night, some today, sanded roughly to shape with 4 inch belt sander. Shouldnt have worried about radio fitting in, lol. I dont think this is really a micro tug tho, standard gear fits in.
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Hull shaped inside, lot of space, lol, relatively. My car gear fits inside, with the car! Lol. Cant remember if I mentioned 2.4ghz and range over 20 feet. A big setup fitted in there, I couldnt find a micro servo. Lol. I wouldnt think it would need the watercooling tube, 😁 seriously, I am worried its not going to have enough power now, I didnt think 35 mm longer than 6 inch intended size would make it so big, if you know what I mean. I was amazed when I built the half size wasp, just how much smaller it looked, measured it, yip, just looked smaller than half. Rudder shaft/arm from umbrella spoke, rudder tube from old style plastic cotton bud. Small section of it in my keel bit.motor totally sealed in from inside anyway, still got to tidy round outside end. The green cells would be 5000 mah at 3.7 v, lol any estimates how long that will last. Anyway, I am using a single lesser capacity cell. Be plenty, I might see if my meter goes low enough to get a max current.
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I made 2 small sanders, shown with the large4 x 1 inch one, which wouldnt fit in to sand stubs of the 2 sticky up bits sealing the wires in. Worked nice. Also planked decks, dark coulered balsa turned out to be 0.25mm thicker than light stuff! Ah well, not much sanding to get them flush, the joy of small models. 😁
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I have been checking the donor car's steering, 2mm each direction and weak 🙁 I know there is no way I can get a result from that.
So to save disappointment, I am going to fit 'proper' radio, I have a small brushed controller, 3g servo somewhere. I also have a voltage booster which will still give the motor 3.7v while boosting rx and servo to 4.8v, very handy device. My rx isnt that small,but should still fit in.
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Regardless of radio, it needs a rudder and control arm, old style plastic tube cotton bud provides rudder tube, umbrella spoke provided shaft and conrol arm. Will bend it to shape once I decide how long I want it. The ball end bit will be cut off too. I usually use these as aileron torque rods. Bit disappointed the car gear isnt going to work, ah well.
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Here is progress so far, had to dremel a bit out of the inside to clear the rudder linkage. Happy that it was going to work reliably, I glued the rear deck down, then as soon as I stuck it down, I realised the rudder isnt glued on, or painted. A small slot will allow the rudder shaft to lift out, the bit I have cut out will go back in once the rudder is finally fitted. I am probably going to make a plastic version of the rudder so it cant go soggy.
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Forgot to mention the truck, it has the speed control I am going to use, it will fit nicely in the area left. I will leave it in there till needed. Rudder tube reinforced with balsa dust and superglue, also low wall in case tube lets in any water. I will be painting in here just in case.
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Got a bit more done, took a fair bit of material out from in front of the prop, maybe get some reversing capability now. Glued up my plastic rudder blank and painted the hull below waterline with yellow base coat. Why yellow? Cos I still have a wee drop of that left after jetranger, wasp, rorqual, 23cm cruiser and a quadcopter bodyshell. Brightens up my shed tho, will use it up soon. Lol
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I wonder if Martin could change my title to '18.5 cm tug build' as it has nothing to do with the car anymore.
I sat the tug hull on top of my wee lean to woodshed, to dry the paint so I could get another coat on it today. Wind blew it onto the ground, luckily the paint was totally dry, some dust and grit. No other damage, that is until I was clearing up after sawing up some pallets, there on the ground, my steering servo, with a thin layer of balsa and superglue where it had wrenched free, need to test it before I glue it back in. Got another coat on it, looking pretty good, I could have just painted round the prop but takes 5 mins for whole thing.
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A couple of times, the thought has occurred to me that it looks kind of 'noah's ark-ish' at the bow. Lol.
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A light sand then another coat of yellow, making sure the rudder tubes get properly sealed. The superstructure will get more done soon, I want to fit my rudder and then glue my mid section of deck in and get the edges sanded. Still loads to do for a small model, I have decided on 1/72 scale, making it around 45 feet. U boat crew member has signed up for duty.
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The tug is tough, it has had two major crashes now, one from 5 feet up, scale height of 360 feet. Lol. The latest one was only from a foot or so.
I painted the hull black last night, but its still tacky, so I sat it close to the stove thinking it just needed warmed up. Was getting a box of self tappers out and dislodged a jar of soldering flux, hit close to the tug then bounced over and knocked the tug down into the ashy pan under the stove. Nooooooo. Only 2 areas of dust which I wiped off the worst of, as the paint only picked up the really fine bits. If the paint isnt totally dry by tonight, I am going to see if I can remove it with white spirit. If it stays on, thats ok, it should remove the tackyness. I have humbrol black gloss I was going to keep for the last coat. I am pretty sure the black gloss I used was the 'brought back from a gel' paint that I used on the wasp. Its proper gone now. It may dry yet, its baking near the stove, stove enamelled hull? I have made a couple of mistakes so far, but its getting there slowly. I am still a bit dubious about the motor being powerful enough, it going to be a heavy wee boat. I am also a bit worried my speed control wont work on 3.7v, I dont want to cook the motor with 7.4. I have a booster that goes in between the esc and rx, boosting the rx feed to 4.8v. I need to dismantle the truck to get my speed control and see if it has a minimum voltage marked on it. Or find its instruction sheet. Probably quicker dismantling the truck. 😁 I could just make the motor on off from servo operated switch, thats going to take up space I never accounted for. Hmmm. Glad I didnt make it 150mm now, Good bit more space at this size.
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I ended up going over it with white spirit, its now just slightly tacky and still baking slowly. Will get a quick coat of humbrol on it before bed... Maybe.
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Decided to cut down the length and height of the rear deck area, leaving the funnel end at its original height. Photos explain it better. The mid deck assembly has been altered to suit. I think it looks a lot better. Also made a start on the hull sides above the deck, I forget what they are called. Ice cream tub material. All bits cut oversize just now. I have to add some holes too. Need to do some terminology research. Lol. And search up some hole arrangements pics. Seen a few yellow tugs.... and I still have loads of yellow left, and it would be more visible for river use should it get taken downstream a bit. Will see as it progresses.
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Photo shows its transport tub. 5 mm spare in width, exact length.
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Here is the tug beside my other 1/72 vessel. Coincidentally the waterlines had ended up the same height on their respective stands. The other photo shows my quadcopter marine drive conversion test rig. I tried it on 3.7v first, pretty good, probably enough for my sub chaser, then I tried it on the 7.4v quad battery, 850mah. Definately better than I had hoped. I am going to try powering my vic smeed rorqual with this setup. Its onto a cheap prop/ shaft set that I have on a few of my boats. 4 motors on the quadcopter give about 8 minutes at over half throttle mostly. I would imagine at least 20 mins on one motor.
Anyway, the tug paint is fully dry now so I can start working on the bulwarks.
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Forgot these
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Work on the tug has been stopped for a while till I can figure out how to run my 3.7v motor from a 7.4v controller. I was thinking of adding another 3.7v motor in series with the tug motor, which should do it, but I would need to tuck it well out of the way to save rubbing any wires. I thought my speed control worked at 3.7v but it doesnt. I will give the extra motor a try, should do the trick.
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Bonjour Andy,
Why would not you add a voltage converter which drops voltage to 5 V (I saw on Amazone or Bangood) then a resistance (U = RI) to reach 3,7 V ?
Ewample : https://www.banggood.com/2A-4-36V-to-3_3V5V6V9V12V-Converter-Step-Down-Voltage-Regulator-Power-Module-p-1364307.html?rmmds=search&ID=519697&cur_warehouse=CN (https://www.banggood.com/2A-4-36V-to-3_3V5V6V9V12V-Converter-Step-Down-Voltage-Regulator-Power-Module-p-1364307.html?rmmds=search&ID=519697&cur_warehouse=CN)
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Hi, thanks for the suggestion, I will probably just use another small motor as I have these already and my budget is low at the moment. Many thanks anyway, Andy.
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Wired up my motors and tested my radio setup. Video here
https://youtu.be/e90jPlOtf9Q
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Now I have my steering and motor tested, I have glued my lower deck/coaming assembly in place and sanded the deck edges flush. I have made a start on the bulwarks, I am glueing 1/32 balsa triangular ribs to the ice cream tub material I am using, I have done the rear piece so far, will glue it on after I get the side bits done and glued in place. Pics show the tug beside a standard sized servo to show the size I am working at.
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This is what you need Andy!
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/04/20/crowbar.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/Zwkap)
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:-) Hi Martin, hope you are well, your site is saving my sanity!
I wondered if you could change the title to 18.5cm tug build or something similar? The car isnt being used in any way any more. Went for 'proper' radio instead.
Theres actually quite a bit of space in there, for such a small boat. I should still manage some lighting as well, see how it goes. I will probably have to fit some ballast in there too. Nice little project, and suitable for bathtub or outside sailing. Also used up some of my balsa scraps, so all good. I probably have enough balsa scraps to build a six foot long version! Might come to that if we are locked down long enough. Anyway, I am hoping to get my bulwarks a bit further on today at some point, I have a few different projects on the go just now, including the garden........ Its a bit windy for the quads just now, so theres more building happening.
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Topic Name changed on request! {-)
( 18.5cm tug build or something similar...)
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Lol.
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Renamed properly this time Andy! ok2
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Bonjour Andy,
I hope you will install a micro servo in your tug :}
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Walkera micro servo is already in there, the standard servo was just to show size of tug
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Thanks Martin. :-))
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Some bulwarks, I decided not to put drain holes, I would rather keep the water out in the first place. At this scale I didnt think surface tension would let water drain out of a 1.5mm x 3mm slot.
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Fitted the rest of my bulwark ribs and a coat of varnish on them and the decks then a coat of yellow base on the outside of hull.
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A small disaster
Having painted another coat of yellow on the upper hull, I sat it near my stove to let the warm air dry the paint a bit quicker........ a bit too close as it turned out. I think I was lucky I decided to move it outside when I did. Ah well, new bulwarks required on one side, bit of a pain because everything in this area has been varnished or painted so not so good for glueing. Even if I just cut off the damaged bits, it will still be hard to get the new bit to blend in nicely. I could have done without this happening, it was progressing nicely, if a bit slow. I need to wait till the fresh coat of yellow is totally dry before I can have a go at fixing it. At least I will have time to calm down, I am annoyed at having made such a stupid mistake. Wont be doing that again.
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I have removed the melted area to see how I am going to repair the damage. It should repair ok, blending in the repairs will be the difficult bit, I used superglue, so there are some bits of plastic securely attached to the hull. Hope to get some new bulwarks started tonight.
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Repairs under way, new bulwark and some new ribs. Hope to blend them in nice enough to not notice the repairs.
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Close enough to what it was like before the meltdown. Bit of tidying up to do then varnish the inside surface, I made up a few new ribs, so these need sealing.
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While I have been building this little tug, I have been trying to think of a paint scheme, I had intended the yellow to be a base coat, as I had a good amount of it left after a full size boat build. I have been trying to use it up but I still have quite a bit left. See photos. Lol.
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Finished painting my hull a few days ago, so I figured the paint would be dry enough for a test. I added quite a lot of lead ballast to get it to sit on the waterline, its quite a solid feeling wee boat now, tipping the scales at 12 ounces with the superstructure unfinished. I will need to remove the radio gear again and try and get the lead arranged a bit better. There isnt a lot of room, I have a 2.5ah 7.4v pack inside but it was still floating high in the water, hence the lead. Testing was in a small basin but showed it was picking up speed ok, reverse wasn't as good as forward, but I pretty much expected that. Steering seemed pretty good. I reckon the 2.5ah battery should last a good few hours, maybe even a day or so, the motors are tiny, only one has a prop, and the other is just running in a corner inside the boat so I can run a 7.4v speed controller. I will get the superstructure construction back under way soon. I dont really know what to add in the way of deck fittings etc.
Anybody seen a tug similar to this?
I just made it up as I went along, but something similar to get ideas from would be handy.
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I got a chance to river test it, it needs a bigger prop, the motor screams, no idea what rpm, but its a lot. Its definately my slowest boat so far! But it is supposed to be 1/72 so wouldnt expect it to look quick. It was making its way upstream slowly but surely. Fairly slow river just now though.
Maiden voyage video here, turn your volume down a bit
https://youtu.be/Gnx7_bs_b_E
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You could definitely do with a little more performance but she sits on the water nicely and looks the part.
What are you going to use now that your favourite WLToys V262 seems to be unavailable?
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Can you explain why two motors needed?, is it not possible to run one motor on a receiver? would one motor burn out? could the tug have been built with two props instead. Just interest to know the concept as I have no experience with these types of running gear, though intrigued with the scale of them, i.e. useful for 1/72 small boats
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That struck me as odd as well. Having 2 motors where one is loaded with a propeller and the other has no load seems a very strange solution to a any problem.
I can only assume that Andy sees it as an answer to some sort of voltage problem although the original quadracopter was 2s which is what the tug is running.
Most micro models run with one motor. prop, esc etc. on either 1S or 2S.
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Hi, this one doesn't use a quadcopter motor, it uses a powerpod from a tiny jetski model. It was going to use radio gear from a small rc car but the steering wasnt up to the job, with only a small amount of movement and really weak, so I decided to change to normal radio gear. As I only had radio that runs on 4.8v powered from a 7.4v pack through the speed controller, I needed to supply the jetski motor with 3.7v, or it would fry it. I thought that adding another motor in series would enable me to use the 7.4v motor supply from esc. It works, I dont know the effect of having one motor loaded with the prop and the other just spinning unloaded, but it seems to work. Someone suggested a device to drop the voltage, but on a limited budget and having the other motor sitting there, I decided to go this way. It seems to work fine, if a bit underpowered, mostly due to prop size, I dont think the motor is struggling at all, so a bigger prop is an option if I can find one the right size.
Answering the question about wltoys v262 quadcopters not being available... The V333 quadcopter is a newer version, it comes with various added features and includes a pretty decent camera. I was able to buy 5 of these at £20 each, a saving of £4 on each one, incredible value. It has slightly different motor pods with longer landing legs but using the same motors. The reason I bought multiples of the v262 and v333 is that if a motor burned out, I would need to buy new motors at about £10 for 4. As I got some of the v262's at £12 each, I didnt see any point just buying motors when I could get everything else for another £2. They all come complete with a battery, charger, transmitter and spare props, so I have quite a few of these spare now. Even at their normal price of £24, the v333 is a bargain, to me anyway. It enables me to have full control of a model for very little money. Years ago I bought 2 hitec hs 80 micro servos for 25 pounds each, I got 4 of my v262's for less than the cost of these 2 servos.
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I just had a look, the v333 is available for £22.99 with free delivery. As I had a few spare bodyshells, I asked at the post office how much it would be to post the bodyshell. Turns out it is £12 to post it, the same as it cost me to buy a complete v262 quadcopter with its battery, radio, charger etc delivered.? So selling my extra bodyshells was abandoned.
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AndyThank you.
I fly Model 1, throttle right but most things are set up for Mode 2, throttle left. I notice that the V666 says it can be changed over. Can the V333?.
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Hi, I am not sure if it can be changed over, the throttle stick doesnt have a spring for centering and is not made like the 'olden days' when all the stick springs were built on the side of the stick mechanism. The springing is internal in the stick base. I will try and dismantle a transmitter to see if it is possible to change this, I have quite a few spare transmitters. Lol. I learned flying with left throttle, but have flown with right throttle before, just needs a bit of practice. These quadcopters are stable enough to practice with the different control layout. The main reason I like these quads is the price, a full flying vehicle, even at £23 for v333 is amazing. And they are pretty tough, my dog has its own dedicated excersise quad, it has had many impacts and bites taken out of it.
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I really was nor asking you to take your transmitter apart! :o I had hoped that there was a simple instruction somewhere.
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I made a new case from ply and balsa for one of my transmitters, I can open that one up easily and have a look, its not a problem. I must say that I have not looked online to see if there is an easy way to do it, but I dont think so due to the layout. The v666 looks like a totally different transmitter. The price is a bit different too!
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Here is what I had in the tug to ballast it to the waterline. 135g of lead, 90g battery (7.4v 2500mah) 16g rx and an 11g speed controller. The hull with walkera micro servo, main drive motor and 'voltage dropper motor' weighs in at 54g. A tight squeeze getting it all in, but I managed it. Just shows how much can fit in a tiny boat. I could have used a much smaller battery of course, but I would have to have made up the difference with more lead. I will probably do that when its finished, might give me a little bit more room to work with.
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Your two motors in series isn't a great idea. I remember my father telling me when I was a nip how it doesn't work that way. The unloaded one inside is probably whizzing away while the one connected to the prop is barely turnng. There must be a way to turn it around -the model railway guys sometimes use diodes with something like a 0.7v drop on them each time. Otherwise, maybe just use a stripped servo PCB I think -tried and tested on very small models for several decades on mini-micro models now.
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Hi RST, the one inside is whizzing round but the drive one is as well, the tiny jetski it came from had two of them and it wasnt fast in any way, expecting it to cope with a very blunt hull and quite a weight was a long shot, it does cope, but will never beat any speed records. It moves it about, with an annoyingly high pitched sound, well my wife and kids found it annoying when I showed them the video. I may go for your diode idea, an old guy I used to work with showed me how to make a motor cutout unit for planes so you could have a motor with 2 channel gear controlling rudder and elevator. Pushing a button started the motor which ran the pack down to a preset voltage then the motor cut so that you still had enough power left for servo control. He used to build valve radios as a hobby.