Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 10:42:39 am

Title: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 10:42:39 am

Hi,

I'm building HMS Broke - a WW1 flotilla leader.

She was built by JS White in Cowes for the Chilean navy, was requisitioned in 1914, was at Jutland, and then part of the Dover Patrol including an action in april 2017. 

There's a strong family connection which has motivated the build.   

it's my first ship model. i'm 3d printing the parts from plans and a few pictures.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 10:47:58 am

the design was done in the 'blender' program - working from a digital copy of the original plans.


the plans are held at the national maritime museum in greenwich - who are very helpful. a real pleasure to be able to visit and handle the originals..

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 10:56:57 am

the hull was printed in 7 sections

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 11:02:28 am

the material is ABS - which so glued together with plastic pipe cement.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: raflaunches on May 01, 2020, 11:04:58 am

Hi John G


Fantastic subject and definitely good use of modern technology. I have a liking for vessels of this era. I’ll be watching your build with great interest.


Oh, and welcome to the forum  :-))

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 11:25:46 am

thanks Nick - encouragement highly appreciated!


here's the process i followed for the modelling


https://modelshipworld.com/topic/20027-hull-modeling-with-blender/ (https://modelshipworld.com/topic/20027-hull-modeling-with-blender/)


definitely a mental workout to learn enough of the 'blender' program - and still learning..


i used offcuts from failed prints (there were a few..) for the joints

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 11:33:08 am

adding motors and props. 


i'm going for the original configuration of 3 motors - hope it's not too ambitious....


helpful advice from simon at www.prop-shop.co.uk

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 11:37:00 am

final joint (with hand drill as an unconventional weight to hold it in place)


and float test in bath - thankfully successful - kept the water low in case...

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 11:58:55 am

funnels and part built bridge


plus ventilator cowls - i'm learning that the printer is surprisingly capable with more delicate items .. though mostly not first time!

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 12:20:49 pm

torpedo launchers/directors and qf guns plus mountings


I found the original 'description of armament' by the makers 'sir w.g.armstrong, whitworth and co ltd' at the nmm in greenwich.


Broke had 4 inch 40 calibre qf guns originally. 


it's a challenge to 3d model the complex guns into something the printer can handle... i had to add blocks at the end of the barrel to stop the plastic bending upwards during the print.


one of the few detailed pics i've found is this one of the foredeck


https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205252712 (https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205252712)


incredibly  useful to compare with the model...

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 12:41:55 pm

decks and fittings all placed rather than glued.


and a link to a pic of Broke in dover harbour


https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205213676 (https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205213676)



this is as far as i've got to date.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: SailorGreg on May 01, 2020, 01:11:15 pm

Hi John, welcome to the mayhem!  That's a fascinating build.  I have read of other 3D printed models but yours is the first I have seen that really shows how it is done (including the Blender tutorial).

Incidentally, I assume in the picture below that this is not the final configuration of the prop shafts?  The propellers should be hard up against the A-brackets to do away with that long length of unsupported shaft, to make some room for the rudders and to prevent the thrust being taken by the electric motors.  But I guess you know all that, sorry for the sucking eggs lesson!
Do keep the pictures coming.

Greg

(https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64903.0;attach=200761;image)(https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64903.0;attach=200761;image)

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 02:02:53 pm

Thanks Greg


your encouragement is most welcome.


yes the pic you spotted was aligning the A brackets.


below shows final position of shafts  - and intermediate one with clearance of rudder.


rudder is virtually scale size - i'm relying on being able to reverse one prop for turning if needed rather than oversizing the rudder - it worked in real life so fingers crossed...


and "obvious" comments very much  welcome - i'm new to this so will definitely miss things.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: SailorGreg on May 01, 2020, 02:14:26 pm

If you are thinking or using the props to aid steering, you might want to consider a mixer like Action Electronics P40E (https://www.componentshop.co.uk/p40e-marine-motor-mixer.html) which will slow, stop or reverse (you choose which) the inside propeller in a turn.

Greg

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 03:14:46 pm

that's exactly the functionality - and the one you linked to looks promising. thanks!


my current plan is to do the same using a raspberry pi -  potentially controlled via bluetooth to a phone. i've only just had the first motor controller arrive, so have some work to do to test the concept/components.  there's an app called bluedot that looks promising - it works on land...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW9oEPySF58 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW9oEPySF58)


and i've used bluetooth over a similar distance for something else.


if it works then there's less hardware and more its flexible - if not then i'll revert to conventional rc with a mixer...

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Geoff on May 01, 2020, 03:38:27 pm

Really interesting and keep up the excellent work, and the pictures!


Cheers


Geoff

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: furball on May 01, 2020, 08:37:40 pm

Very nice. May I ask what slicer you’re using, or does Blender produce the gcode directly?


I’ve got an Ender 5, and it’s interesting to see what they can do.


Lance

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 11:57:43 pm

thanks Geoff -  i was hesitant to start posting - so encouragement much appreciated!

and Lance - i produce a stl file from the model created in  Blender (www.blender.org) , and then use Cura (   https://ultimaker.com/software/ultimaker-cura ) as the slicer to produce the gcode (=instructions for the printer).

for interest the pic is a screen grab from Cura of the gun shield  - (top view cut through half way up , i printed it inverted ).  you can see the individual lines the print head will follow - magical!

the printer is a pretty standard Creality Ender 3.   i use Octoprint (www.octoprint.org) to run the printer on a raspberry pi.   print times can be pretty long - over a day for some of the hull sections- octoprint means i can check it remotely.

Blender, Cura and Octoprint are all excellent (and free) pieces of software. getting to grips with Blender was the the biggest challenge. i know there are other packages out there - it was the link to 'how to model a hull ' that started me working with blender.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: RST on May 02, 2020, 12:10:37 am

I use cura but it seems a bit unstable.  I NEVER update to latest after last time -because frankly it never works afterwards and screws up everythng.  Best thing for me and cura is still try to remain 1 or 2 revisions older:  let the most recent bugs be reported and fixed by someone else.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on May 02, 2020, 01:59:22 pm

Welcome to the forum John! Your hull assembly looks great and is an excellent way of pushing your skills and learning to the limit  :-)) Can you print wider? I ask because you could print larger hulls in smaller segments.


Keep up the good work  :-)

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 03, 2020, 10:23:40 am

Hi RST,
i'm still at the stage of marveling at what cura can do. there are lots of little frustrations along the way - but mostly with moving from the blender model to the cura slicing: persuading the appropriate parts to be 'solid' and not others doesn't always work out first time. i'm sure it's partly experience/learning - and maybe partly that blender is largely a 3d graphics package at least as much as for cad. i've not had major issues with cura - so far. (i did experiment with craftware      https://craftbot.com/craftware/   but it didn't solve the issue i was grappling with, and to be honest learning one program at a time is enough..) 

and ballastanksian  thanks for the kind comment: i actually printed the sections vertically (see the pic in reply 2).  here's why:
one of the challenges is 'support' - the filament can't 'bridge' too far across a horizontal gap, so the slicer can produce temporary supports to allow bridging. but i found they tended to be temperamental for the hull sections - you can see the supports but also the 'spaghetti' where non- crucial ones were failing.   printing vertically drastically reduces the need for support and gives a flat plane to sit more securely on the printer bed-.... however it does bring other challenges. because it's printing hot filament onto cooler model parts, it builds up some stresses in the part, and also can deform a little: you can see cracks in one section in reply 3. also the sections tended to spread wider in the middle - so i added cross ties to bring in the sides slightly. the pic shows both cross ties, and the extra beam added half way up the side of the hull to help with layer adhesion.


(the choice of ABS as a material may have made the printing a little more challenging too - but that's a different topic.)   


to answer your main question - with printing vertically it's the vertical size  of the printer that becomes the limiting factor for bigger segments... i know there are adaptions of the ender 3 that simply add a longer vertical bar etc to give greater build height  (  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi6Qo-SY2pk&t=659s):  the challenges would then be around the adhesion, deformation during printing etc that i've mentioned.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 03, 2020, 10:45:47 am

well, yesterday was a good day:


 - cut the prop shafts to length
- test fitted the rudder, and tested the servo (using a conventional rc )
(interesting that the clearance between rudder and middle prop is rather less than in the plan- but still adequate - fortunately!).


- hooked up the raspberry pi (pic 2533 shows lipo's, voltage reducer, l298n motor controller, and pi)
- test ran the 3 motors in turn controlled by the pi
-  tested using the pi to control the servo.
- and tested the bluedot software ( https://bluedot.readthedocs.io/en/latest/gettingstarted.html ) to link to the pi


very pleased that all the bits worked - particularly that the motors and servo seem to do the job - they're all relatively cheap ones from ebay. and that the plan for 'control by pi' looks promising.


there will be the challenge of knitting the bits of software into the functionality of a mixer (btw the link from sailorgreg was useful for the link for functionality - thanks!). i'm hoping i can persuade a friend to do that bit - his programming is much more elegant than mine!


and finally - my new airbrush set arrived - so time to start planning the painting.. that's another new skill.  and of course the '50 shades of grey' question - what colour was a ww1 warship... ? i have some clues..

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on May 03, 2020, 12:46:14 pm

The key is that as the war progressed the grey got lighter with some official standards. There is a thread on here that discusses it in some detail even including recipes for greys and modern colour matches.


You can deepen the debate further by adding the Razzle dazzle schemes that many WW1 warships and merchantmen acquired from time to time as the situation demanded. I read it through but didn't think anyone would be interested and forgot the name of the thread. RAF Launches started a thread on Dazzle schemes for HMS Kent.


Your ABS is not far off the colour warships would have been painted around 1905-1916 being a dark grey. Then uperworks on smaller ships began to be painted lighter, and by 1918, most ships were painted in lighter greys. White Ensign/Sovereign hobbies (?) have extensive knowledge and colours available for most eras.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Rob47 on May 03, 2020, 02:55:21 pm

Action 2017 wow  :} :} :}
But its looking great though


Bob

Quote from: JohnG on May 01, 2020, 10:42:39 am

Hi,

I'm building HMS Broke - a WW1 flotilla leader.

She was built by JS White in Cowes for the Chilean navy, was requisitioned in 1914, was at Jutland, and then part of the Dover Patrol including an action in april 2017. 

There's a strong family connection which has motivated the build.   

it's my first ship model. i'm 3d printing the parts from plans and a few pictures.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 03, 2020, 05:37:21 pm

thanks Bob!!   April 1917 of course.. battle of the dover strait 21 april 1917 to be precise.   
(if only there was an edit function...)

and thanks  ballastanksian. i'd seen similar info as a thread here:   http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=154630  - but will look for the one on mayhem. 

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on May 03, 2020, 09:12:03 pm

That's exactly the one! Spot on  :-)) :-)) :-)) So interesting what with the driers and all. An American couple building their own  sailing boat on YouTube mentioned adding driers to the soup they paint on timbers. I didn't think they still made the stuff, but obviously any linseed oil based unction will need driers.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 04, 2020, 10:39:44 am

so continuing the paint colour discussion. in summary/TLDR: - i'm thinking of using vallejo premium grey for the main hull colour. hull  https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/producto/hobby/premium-airbrush-color-hobby/grey-62019/


here's how i got there:


HMS Caroline's paint colours seem a good place to start. the 1914 grey is a close match - particularly the '1914' mockup on this page  https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2015/may/29/150528-hms-caroline
 
https://www.nmrn.org.uk/news-events/nmrn-blog/revealed-true-colours-world-war-one-how-discovery-board-hms-caroline-helping


it's also pretty close to the 'grey' at the top if this aforementioned thread  http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=154630


and in the same thread the extract from  "British Warships 1914-1919" by FJ Dittmar & JJ Colledge Ian Allan Ltd 1972, Page 13 mentions falknor being painted 'grey' on 8/9/14 . she was a sister ship of broke launched in feb 1914 as almiralte simpson from samuel white's yard  - broke was launched by the same yard in May 1914 - so it seems a reasonable assumption that she'd have received the same initial colour.


i've not found any  info on later repaint colours. there would certainly have been some repainting after jutland ! https://www.flickr.com/photos/twm_news/27317142542
and again after the dover strait action in april 17.


in 1918 she was still a single colour - clearly a grey - can't tell how dark! - https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/broke-off-to-france-with-the-king-prince-of-wales-and-news-photo/591947784


when i view the caroline, shipmodels thread and vallejo greys alongside each other on screen they look pretty close (acknowledging that they come to the screen from different sources, so this is bound to be approximate - but it's the best i've found). Also the vallejo paint available in bigger size/better value than many.. so i'm planning to order some and see how it looks..


that still leaves the question of what colour below the waterline.  there seems to be v little info online. in the  'repair after jutland' pic (and indeed in the the 'during launch' pics of sister ships) there's no distinguishable change in shade from the waterline downwards. Presumably black?   Yet a number of models i've seen have a black band then red below. ideas anyone?

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on May 04, 2020, 11:18:35 pm

A standard paint job on Royal navy ships (and that of many other nations as well) was the grey and/or dazzle scheme below which was the black 'Boot Topping' and then below that was red anti fouling paint. May modellers paint the entire hull bottom black as the red can show through the water unrealistically, but that is a personal thing and up to the modeller. Before a certain date, warships had a green anti fouling paint, but Broke would almost certainly be grey-black-red.


You can tell the range of grey she was painted with in that Getty image as the Sailors are wearing their dark blue uniforms and the boot topping, being black is as dark, so a lighter mid grey would be right. As to exact tone (warm grey or cold grey) have a look at model paint manufacturers and get the feel of their shades.


Some modellers agonise over the exact shade of Olive Drab, or sand, or indeed grey, but it is fair to say that every batch of dye, paint or stain was slightly different. Even today, modellers will buy a box of tinlets rather than buying one tin at a time, as you will run out of one and then find the second one you bought was slightly different. Then there is wear and tear and fading and the effects of nature 'moving in' on areas of hull often exposed to the water.


For HMS Ready, I sprayed my hull with a Halfords Art paint, which is a dark grey. It is grey slate perhaps, so not too brown or blue, nor even green. As she was an experiment and representative of the class, I painted her hull darker than she might have been, but painted her upper works in lighter greys.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 04, 2020, 11:52:07 pm

most helpful ballastanksian - thanks!

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on May 05, 2020, 11:39:42 pm

What scale are you building her to? 1:96th/ 1:100th??

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 06, 2020, 09:44:48 am

1: 96 (the clue's in the subject line   :-)  ). very convenient for working from the plans which are 1/4 inch to the foot so can simply print the scans at half size. the level of detail on them is great - all hand drawn, and no sign of corrections. 

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 07, 2020, 06:20:28 pm

it's been interesting exploring the capabilities of the 3 d printer.


i reprinted the funnels having realised i could improve on the detail - partly inspired by the superb details in geoff's 'invincible too' thread - something to aspire to...


it took a little over 12 hours to produces 4 main funnels (3 plus a spare!) on a 'fine' setting


part of the reason i'm using abs as build material is the option to use 'acetone smoothing' to smooth out the printed items


it involves placing the items in acetone vapour for 20-30 minutes  which then partially melts and smooths the surface.


the result is that the fine lines from the print head virtually disappear - leaving the part almost glazed. the part funnel shows 'pre smoothing' and the complete one is after - smoother and darker.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 07, 2020, 07:15:27 pm

i'd been pleasantly surprised to be able to model e.g. the searchlight fairly well, but when it came to the binnacle (approx 13 mm high) its disappointing.


i've ordered a 0.2 mm print nozzle (the current one's 0.4mm) - will see how that performs.


in passing, i went back to a dvd i had on the shelf: ' the empires shield'  is a collection of official ww1 navy footage - and reel 4 covers a raid on zeebrugge in 1917 - mostly shot from the deck of the broke.
it's also now online too https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060023093 - reel 4 is the 4th 'frame' of the ones shown. at just on 2 minutes there's a shot of a faulknor class ship under way. it's probably hms botha (sister ship) from the funnel markings. the only such footage i know of.  it's probably (hard to be 100% sure) also botha firing her guns later in the reel.


(and the grey does look like the lighter mid grey - thanks ballastanksian - definitely appears to confirm your comment in reply 27! )


anyway the point is  that in re-watching the reel,  i found a few invaluable detail shots too - like the one shown looking along the deck past the funnels. there are glimpses of the binnacle on the rangefinder deck too.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on May 07, 2020, 09:25:01 pm

Sorry John, I looked everywhere but the booming title! I really did look at the first few posts, but obviously you did not need to repeat it a second time!


One thing I have earnt about warships is that they are busy blighters for detail, oh, and they change regularly in all ways and ships within a class will have differences, which are exacerbated during service due to damage and refits etc.


I found that my M19 monitor was different to her sisters both because of the builder's 'interpretation' of the plans and because she suffered a gun explosion which destroyed her turret and deck furniture on the foredeck and around the quarter deck. Thus, she had a fine selection of vents including a squared one! I do not think that a model can be 100% accurate, but must be the creation of a snap shot in time. We can all point out a detail issue on one's model, and may indeed be right for a period in time. That may not be the period you have modelled your vessel in  %%

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 08, 2020, 11:05:35 am

yes, highly inconsiderate to modellers to keep changing the ships... ok2      though there's a raised platform near the stern that's been removed by 1918 - so i'm going to assume it's gone by 1917 which is the year i'm aiming for - and that does make the modelling simpler.


btw i looked at the thread for your m19 build, but there don't seem to be any pics of the full model...  ?  do share if the pics are posted..
for interest i spotted there's what looks like a sister ship in the 'empires shield' video at around 7:24 in the zeebrugge reel. several were assigned to the dover patrol (specifically M.23, M.21, M.24, M.25, M26, M27 in 1917 - looked it up! ).

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on May 08, 2020, 09:01:49 pm

I lost the mojo for a couple of years and am just returning to it again. I have just ordered some fittings to complete the deck and then will look at the derrick puzzle.


M19 spent her war in the Med, initially stonking the Turks and then giving the Aegean a once over near Salonika etc.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: tghsmith on May 09, 2020, 12:46:45 pm

the rate of "tech" development was so fast in this period by the time some ships were launched they were obsolete, As for changes during building the USS Minneapolis and USS Columbia were to built as sister ships,, original plans called for 3 funnels,, the Minneapolis was built with 2 while the Columbia got 4.. they were under construction at the same time in the same ship yard..

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 23, 2020, 10:59:22 pm

the plan to run model with a raspberry pi controlled with bluetooth is looking promising. my friend mark helped with the programming:


the green square  on the phone acts like a joystick - controlling the 3 motors plus rudder as a mixer does.


in the pic/video clip it's running a virtual 'test boat' on the screen - a bar for each motor, green ahead and red astern, with the rudder angle a black line.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HdSoYlxWpCft2QflUuRngE6mutk62RRh/view?usp=sharing


it works for the 'virtual boat' - slowing and then reversing the inner motor as the turn gets sharper. we can tweak it if necessary for 'real life'.


a test in the bath worked ok with the motors running as they should and the rudder turning. rudder control was a little bit jumpy, but that should be fixable. 

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 23, 2020, 11:03:56 pm

meantime there's been progress with the physical model too...


it's been interesting getting to use the new airbrush: lots of primer on hull and parts

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 23, 2020, 11:11:05 pm

Marking the lines for the boot topping , and masking for painting.


(in passing the anchor mounting – think its called the hawse pipe – was tricky to fit. I 3d modelled it as one piece, printed a couple per side, and cut them in half to fit from top and bottom. It would have been much simpler to build it into the 3d print of the bow before printing the whole thing – I’ll know next time!)

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 23, 2020, 11:31:57 pm

This is where she’s now got to – painted ‘light grey’.

even though everything's only placed for the photo - nothing glued down yet - it still feels a big step to see the final colour on the model at last.



i fixed on "Light Grey Vallejo Model Air 71.050" in the end.  - on the screen it looked like what i wanted  and i'm pleased with the result. Thanks again to ballastanksian for the helpful comments.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: raflaunches on May 23, 2020, 11:43:24 pm

Looking stunning John. A proper ww1 destroyer. :-))

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 24, 2020, 06:40:03 pm

thanks raflaunches - encouragement appreciated (particularly having looked at what you've been doing on hms invincible - lovely to see)

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on May 25, 2020, 12:41:43 pm

If she had a 3pdr HA gun then let me know  :-))

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on May 25, 2020, 06:53:50 pm

the 4 forward guns are all "4 inch 40 calibre q.f. gun" built by armstrong whitworth and co.


initially there were 2 more on the stern but they were replaced at some point by a single gun -  something heavier - haven't identified it - visible in the getty images pic noted earlier.


https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/broke-off-to-france-with-the-king-prince-of-wales-and-news-photo/591947784

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: raflaunches on May 25, 2020, 07:38:10 pm

Quote from: JohnG on May 24, 2020, 06:40:03 pm

thanks raflaunches - encouragement appreciated (particularly having looked at what you've been doing on hms invincible - lovely to see)

Many thanks John, that’s three years of work though! Already got plans for future vessels to model, a majority of them being pre or WW1 warships. :-))

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 12, 2020, 01:39:22 pm

well, i tracked down the date of the upgrade to the stern gun (reply no 40 above) - which was changed in a refit in march 1918 at the same time the  two  forward guns were also exchanged for a single 4.7 inch.


so since i want her to look as in 1917, it will be the original 6 guns (including the raised stern gun platform which will be an extra challenge to model so it's removable)


meantime i've been busy painting:  adding red to the hull and boot topping

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 12, 2020, 01:48:46 pm

i want to be able to access under the deck - so have fixed the deck with mini magnets and a small bolt/nut (top be adjustable) on a mini bracket: magnet and bracket epoxied in place. 


pleased to report that it works - 26 of them for the deck 4 deck sections. 3 that will be fixed most of the time, and the small one under the 3rd funnel to access on/off and charging. the pic shows brackets and magnets on base of deck section.


i realise it's not going to be waterproof, but the intention is for fair weather sailing only!

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 12, 2020, 01:57:26 pm

i fitted the main electrics.  a tighter fit than i anticipated, but all ok. really must remember to make a wiring diagram while i remember!


tested in the bath. she floats (that's a relief), runs forward/backward/turns on batteries and controlled from the android phone.


Also the waterline/ballasting  is ok - i was concerned there might be too much weight at the stern, but it's ok. still high at the bow, and a slight list to port (i ran the wires along the port side) so that's easily corrected.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 12, 2020, 02:02:00 pm

so here's a current view - with the parts still only placed on the deck. bridge and funnels pretty much completed.


now to fix them...


still got the aft bridge, stern gun platform to work on.... good thing it's a wet day..

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Dreadnought on June 12, 2020, 02:27:28 pm

Looks Great  :-))

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Geoff on June 12, 2020, 04:05:47 pm

I agree, looking really good.


Geoff

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 12, 2020, 05:05:01 pm

thanks guys..

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on June 12, 2020, 08:20:45 pm

The slightly deeper draught at the rear makes her look like the Captain has ordered all ahead full to engage the enemy and she is digging her stern in as she spools up her turbines/engines. I can imagine the sooty smoke as the stokers get busy with the shovels (or the oil sprayers were opened up  :} )


Anyhow, she looks gorgeous and will be great to see on a lake, perhaps one in Kettering next May.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: raflaunches on June 12, 2020, 11:37:31 pm

Looking fantastic! I’m really impressed with the result so far. Can’t wait to see her on the water.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 21, 2020, 07:35:30 pm

READY FOR SEA TRIALS....


well the funnels, main bridge, big ventilators, and main deck structures back as far as the aft bridge are fitted. also the torpedo tubes. the fore guns are temporarily mounted pending the turret rotation system.


and the basic electrics and software are functioning. so she's ready for sea trials (well actually a friend's swimming pool) planned for tuesday... exciting times. report to follow.


i've fitted a mini camera in the centre porthole just below the bridge. just for fun i tested it taking a snap looking a a picture of a ww1 fleet.  it's an actual image transmitted from the model looking forward over the guns, capstan and foredeck, with the model placed in front of a computer screen.   the idea is to be able to see the 'view from the bridge' when she's sailing.


(and a challenge for the sharp eyed - what's wrong/unusual about the pic on the screen?)

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: raflaunches on June 21, 2020, 07:42:06 pm

Are they German ships that she is tailing?
If they are British ships she is too far behind- should be in front screening the Battle Sqn. :D


Looking fantastic- she’ll look brilliant on the water.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 21, 2020, 09:27:38 pm

well spotted Nick - correct  - German ships around the time of jutland....

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 25, 2020, 12:58:24 pm

SEA TRIALS REPORT


i'm delighted to report that the sea trial (aka test in a friend's pool) went remarkably well.


here's a link to a video.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_CxpOSRNiaY5FyZGBVZiwKiS1f4Qv9YV/view?usp=sharing
 ( btw if you get a 'couldn't preview' error from google drive,  just click on three dots on top right corner of the page and then click 'open in new window'. A new window with video will be opened and it should be ok. )


what went well:
 - the bluetooth control via the raspberry pi: faultless link, very responsive (you can see how confident i was getting towards the end of the video clip... – watching afterwards I flinched as it headed for the wall..! )
- ample power in the motors - if anything too powerful.  i must research 'scale speed' in a little more detail! (the original was capable of 32 knots, which i calculate to 3.75mph scale speed- the model is capable of well over that..) comments on this welcome!
- steering: the software 'mixer' for the motor/rudder control took a while to get used to, but had a very good turning circle at low speed going forwards- remarkably so given the size of the rudder. 
- the batteries lasted well (6 recycled 18650 lipos from old laptops:  4 for motors, 2 for control). minimal voltage drop after the whole trials session.


what I learned/need to correct/reflect on:
-   The list to port!! It comes from running the wires down the port side. I knew it was there, but wanted to see her under power before intervening too much. Should be easy enough to fix.
-   Steering in reverse – near impossible to helm anything except ‘straight astern’. Control is bound to be harder going astern, but need to look at the ‘soft mixer’ settings to see if it will improve.
-   Power ‘instant on’: The nature of the control via the ‘blue dot’ app means she can go to  full power almost instantly. (just put a thumb on that part of the control ‘dot’). A gradual build-up of power would be more realistic.  I think it’s mostly a matter of more gentle handling of the controller, which will come with practice.
-   I blew out a motor controller at the end of the trial: the starboard prop shaft seized due to the lock nut on the prop not being fully secure. Not a big problem, but in stalling the motor it blew out the l298n motor controller (symptoms: no longer controlling the motor, and power from the control pin leaking to the motor circuit.) Fortunately the pi was unaffected and I have a couple of spare  controllers. I have a 5 amp fuse on the motor circuit – maybe it needs a 2a fuse on each controller.. since they are rated “2A for 2 minutes / 1A continuous”


Overall a most rewarding session… she performed well, and I learned a lot.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Geoff on June 25, 2020, 05:23:55 pm

Very nice indeed! Well done and hope to see her at Mayhem in due course.


Cheers


Geoff

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on June 25, 2020, 07:00:11 pm

Amen. I won't comment on the list as you have it covered  :-))  As for control of speed, if you can have a slower acceleration and an emergency engines ahead full just in case you need to evade a mad captain's Iron Duke  :embarrassed:  then that would be good. Definitly pop some fuses in, as it gets expensive making the magic grey smoke all the time  {:-{


It looks like you have some spare bouyancy for more detail if you plan to go all out.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 25, 2020, 07:15:55 pm

thanks guys. comments appreciated.


i like the comment about keeping the emergency full ahead. actually it's the full astern that i was thinking of keeping for emergencies.! fuses are ordered


yes quite a lot more detail to add. smoke unit is the heaviest  item still to go on  - so if i can nudge that to the starboard side.......   

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: raflaunches on June 25, 2020, 08:29:54 pm

Looks fantastic John, as you say a little fettling and you’ll have a nice sailing destroyer which is pretty unique as far as I know. I’ll look to your next update. :-))

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 28, 2020, 12:48:25 pm

smoke generator mk 1 - testing


the vaporiser arrived yesterday...... a first fit gives a rewarding amount of 'smoke'.   


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_nhVUDUB0jNCf3_vbL0de9FTurmjjdVv/view?usp=sharing
[size=78%]( if you get a 'couldn't preview' error from google drive,  just click on three dots on top right corner of the page and then click 'open in new window'. A new window with video will be opened and it should be ok. )[/size]


as noted by geoff (v helpful comment - reply no 18 on  https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,60314.msg637518.html#msg637518 )  the 24v vaporiser is quite big and needs headroom to function. something of a challenge to fit it into the space  - esp the headroom.  but then on the original, much  of the below deck space was taken up by the 6 boilers , so not so much changes..


i'd tried a small disk vaporiser, and was disappointed by the vapour generated. this is much more promising..


 i think i'm going to tweak the container to be wider at the top so there's more water and it will run for longer.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on June 28, 2020, 06:42:09 pm

Looking good  :-)) 

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on April 23, 2021, 06:49:51 pm

well, it's been a while since i posted  (a couple of lockdowns ago!!). Hms broke is coming on. adding the rigging made a big difference to her looks.   Though of course as soon as i'd finished the rigging, i could see things to improve...

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on April 23, 2021, 06:58:27 pm

now i'm in the middle of adding stanchions (you can see the unpainted ones ..) - somehow i'd been putting that job off - but actually it's not so bad - after the first hundred......


at last i start to feel the build is coming towards the end. still got quite a few things to do (creating the whalers + davits is the most challenging), but it's definitely 'end in sight' now..

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: raflaunches on April 23, 2021, 08:16:12 pm

Hi John


Great to see the build is still going ahead- looks stunning

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on April 24, 2021, 10:26:14 am

thanks nick - comment appreciated - i'm all too aware that i'm a newbie at this art... 


had a few unexpected challenges along the way. the worst was that the 3d printed ABS hull moved/deformed a little in the months since it was printed. not something i expected - had to fettle the carefully cut deck sections, and add an extra cross beam to cope. if i was doing it again, would be a little different - either put wooden beams along the inside top of the hull , or more radically 3d print a mould rather than using the ABS as the hull material.


On a different topic, anyone got advice for how to form h beam brass into davit shapes?


i'd found a copy of norman ough's detail in a 1959 model boat mag - then saw i didn't need to buy it cos it's on mayhem...
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14183.msg136980.html#msg136980
along with other helpful details

but a first test at bending the h beam to shape shows it's not going to be easy even heating with mini gas flame...

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on April 27, 2021, 07:39:38 pm

She looks amazing! Like with any form of art, you have to learn how to say 'that's enough so you can move on and do other things without getting obsessed with one project.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on April 28, 2021, 03:28:20 pm

Thanks for the comment. Agree there comes a time to say ‘enough’ .... but not just yet though.....!



Btw did you get back to yr m19 monitor? Would love to see pics if you did..

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on April 28, 2021, 03:35:32 pm

I mean to, it's just I fluffed the deck/superstructure join up a little last year and it dispirited me. It isn't a million miles away from completion as long as the interface between Davits and hull work.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Geoff on April 29, 2021, 04:06:45 pm

To form H beam brass into davits just anneal it with a gas blow lamp and you will be surprised how pliable it becomes. You may need to do this several times. After it cools it will naturally regain its strength.


Looking very good indeed.


Cheers


Geoff

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on April 29, 2021, 07:07:32 pm

thanks Geoff - v useful - that's roughly what i was going to try so this is definitely helpful.


and ian, do give it a go - a davits/deck pic would be welcome exactly now!!

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on April 29, 2021, 11:18:38 pm

I have a plan but have a few bits to do first before getting back to it properly. Real life things like a garden bench for a relation.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on April 30, 2021, 05:51:00 pm

Quote from: ballastanksian on April 29, 2021, 11:18:38 pm

I have a plan but have a few bits to do first before getting back to it properly. Real life things like a garden bench for a relation.

Yes real life does interfere with the modelling..... I’ve also got a friend to help with a bench next week - same skills just bigger and noisier tools!

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on April 30, 2021, 10:14:15 pm

Yup, but just as fun  :}

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 10, 2021, 06:17:16 pm

there's been some progress since the last post:


I made and fitted the davits (thanks to geoff for the advice), and modelled and 3d printed the whalers.


i decided to model the whalers  'covered' - as they are in most of the pics i found - also much easier to model - and lighter!

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 10, 2021, 06:20:24 pm

also fitted the final set of stanchions along the main deck.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 10, 2021, 06:24:15 pm

so now she's pretty much complete for the main construction


Just a 'snagging' list to work through...

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - a sinking tale....
Post by: JohnG on July 05, 2021, 05:42:56 pm

Well that was an adventure too far - she sank!..... -  here's the sorry tale:

Inspired by visiting the recent wings n wheels show, i decided it was definitely time to take the model for a test sail - down at the poole park boating lake - she set of beautifully  - though a little lower in the water than i'd hoped.

The first few manoeuvres were fine. also tested the sound system which was good. - all going well so far..

I wanted to check the control range - so sent her off along the side of the lake. Unfortunately as she got to further away, contact/control was lost. 

Rather than stopping, she kept going and headed off along edge of lake with me in pursuit. She then managed a turn - and i thought i'd regained control. Not to be - instead headed off into middle of lake - and there gently sank!

i had no choice but to wade in to get her back.  For anyone that happens to be interested, Poole model boat lake is just under 3 ft deep!   

Fortunately all recovered ok. Boat and owner rather wetter than planned.
The picture posted is of the boat post- recovery. Looks ok on the outside!

i'm now licking my wounds, drying all out, waiting to see what electronics survived,
and thinking about lessons learned..... There are quite a few!!! Mostly from over- confidence of a new modeler….   i may post  some thoughts later...

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: tonyH on July 05, 2021, 06:45:25 pm

Bad luck John, I'm sure that more than a few of us have been through it and at least it was only 3ft!
 :-))

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: raflaunches on July 05, 2021, 07:50:21 pm

Hi John


Sorry to hear about the sinking. Whilst I haven’t yet had a sinking myself I have come close on a couple of occasions but luckily spotted something was wrong before it went under. If you are using a 40MHz than I think that’s your problem with the erratic behaviour after loosing signal. Like Wicksteed at least the water level was only 3ft making recovery easier. You may find that a dry out may be all it needs to be okay. The brass destroyer that my Dad and I were restoring for a friend took five attempts to be relatively dry inside and it still tried to get water inside over the deck during hard turns! Don’t be too perturbed by the initial failure- my second run with my first boat ended in disaster when the power lead fell off the battery! Boat drifting aimlessly for an hour until we managed to get it close enough to the lake edge (this was at another lake where you couldn’t wade in as it was 20+ft deep!)

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on July 06, 2021, 08:48:50 pm

Thanks for the kind comments. Tony and nick.
As you say Tony, at least it was only 3 ft!


The big things i learned were :
-The need to do a bath test first.  I’d thought i had some leeway (as ballasttanksian commented some time ago). Adding smoke gen, turrets etc definitely overdid it! Really should have checked…..
- i didn’t fully make sure the decks were flush. Had only been talking to Geoff at wings n wheels when he suggested vaseline to seal the deck. I didn’t! Will also think about bulkheads and foam or similar for bouyancy (as in other posts on mayhem that i read and ignored… {:-{ )
- and i’ve been trying out control via Bluetooth to a raspberry pi rather than conventional radio control: until yesterday i thought it was looking promising: it was giving ok range that i thought i could boost, and a software mixer that worked beautifully for 3 motors.   Now have to decide whether to persist, or go to conventional rc….   I suspect the answer is conventional rc for the motors/rudder, and raspberry pi for the auxiliaries ( for anyone interested, i have smoke on/off, video from onboard camera, control of sounds of motor, bell etc, and voltages of the batteries, all sent from the pi to a tablet.)


Anyway, time to go back cook some humble pie,  and dust off drawing board…

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Geoff on July 07, 2021, 02:19:10 pm

John,


Very sorry to hear of your troubles. If the water was fresh then there is a very good chance the electronics will survive. I lost a 6 foot battleship many years ago in deep water. It plunged like the Titanic! Got it back and washed all the electronics in fresh water as it gets rid of mineral salts. In the event the only permanent damage was to a couple of servos.


I would counsel you consider very carefully where the water came in and how to stop it. Sounds obvious and simple but its not necessarily where you think, for example on tight turns did the deck become awash, or did you loose control because the water had already reached the electronics through another route? That would also explain the loss of control?


Fortunately the model itself does not appear to be damaged.


Unlike model airplanes we have a fair chance of getting the model back in one piece!


Keep up the good work.


Cheers


Geoff

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Geoff on July 07, 2021, 02:20:22 pm

As an add on, maybe float the model for a couple of hours in the bath to see if there is a hidden leak somewhere

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: tonyH on July 07, 2021, 03:27:45 pm

Geoff is right about the fresh water etc. but one caveat he hasn't mention that often occurs with models of pre-WW1 powered warships is that they have a mind of their own. They sink, fall over, don't stop, don't steer etc. and generally follow the same problems that some of the real-world designers faced. Too late of course. That's what makes them so much fun when you find that it's not your fault!  :embarrassed:

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: C-3PO on July 07, 2021, 04:07:51 pm

If you still have any wet electronics place them in a sealed bag somewhere warm with some uncooked rice which should draw out/absorb the moisture ...

Regards
C-3PO

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on July 07, 2021, 05:47:25 pm

thanks guys. all useful to hear.   


I'm leaving it all to dry thoroughly before i carefully test the bits to see what survived.
(also got grandkids around this week for the first time for a year - so modelling  takes second place for a while...)
i'd heard the 'dry rice' method - though i have to say in a  recent test with an iphone   it didn't work 
(that was my better half - who having done that to her phone, seems a little less sympathetic to my adventure than i thought appropriate!)


yes geoff, as you say, knowing where the water went in would be useful - the trouble was she was too far away to be sure. i think probably waves over the bow due to being too low in water, but not 100% sure.


and Tony, that's an interesting comment - hadn't thought of the stability of the original being a contributor...      sadly as i think i said, mostly it was my fault - but yes it's part of the fun - though standing in the middle of the lake hunting for a sunken it didn't feel like it for a few minutes!! Thanks for the encouragement.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: tonyH on July 07, 2021, 07:33:26 pm

It get's into your blood John,
If you want to see what goes, I've two threads on "experiments" of mine that looked right but were disasters. One was a Thornycroft jet drive torpedo boat from about 1890 which died sinking slowly at Mayhem. The second was the notorious "Fat Pointy Thing" which was a French Destroyer of about 1896. Apart from ramming the lighthouse at Mayhem in about 2011 it was impossible to drive. If you have a spare hour it may amuse you to look out that thread in particular. :embarrassed:   

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: warspite on July 07, 2021, 11:49:43 pm

I would watch QI where they debunk the idea of using rice to draw water out of electronics - apparently it has no effect as pointed out above

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on July 08, 2021, 10:56:14 am

hi tony,
well thanks for that diversion - i found the 'fat pointy thing' thread - longest debate on the purpose of bowsprits i've ever seen! but martin's description of the outing at wicksteed - priceless.  {-)
(it's here for anyone minded to look  https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17389.225.html   )
seems it can be summarised as 'need to buy a bigger lake'...  and clearly you had an audience - which was thankfully missing from my adventure.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: tonyH on July 08, 2021, 02:08:43 pm

Hi John,
It was fun I must admit but it went to prove a couple of points about " not my fault!". The build was straight from the original drawings where the rudder was ahead of the props. Jimmy James was a master mariner who had literally sailed the seven seas in command on sail and steam so when we tried to sail her at Eaton Park she was fully manned with coxwain and engineer on wheel and independent engines. Nothing we could do would induce her, on a flat calm, to be controllable. The original design just had to be unworkable to any large extent but 18 were built of the Arquebuse type plus a number of others of other nationalities. I've attached a pic of the design model of Turbinia at the Science Museum with the same layout but which does not appear on the real vessel. So definitely not my fault! The more interesting bit was the fact that the "Pointy thing" itself actually worked and when she hit the lighthouse it slid back correctly against the friction mount so I can only think that the French Navy knew the control problem existed and designed in the bumper. It also appears on Russian and Japanese destroyers of the same period since many of  their ships were heavily influenced by the French. Again...Not my responsibility!  So build away and blame the designers!
Cheers
Tony

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Railbob on July 14, 2021, 09:18:30 pm

If anyone is interested Drachinifel has just posted a video on Broke and Swift , very interesting.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Plastic - RIP on July 15, 2021, 06:59:59 am

Is it worth filling all the spare space with floatation to stop this happening again?

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: tonyH on July 15, 2021, 09:31:59 am

First it's a case of sorting out where in the hull the weight actually is and why, if indeed it is, leaking per se. or whether it's because the boat is a combination of too tender and unsealed.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on July 15, 2021, 10:52:55 am

Bob, Many thanks for pointing out the Drachinifel video about the april 1917 dover strait action

(it's here if anyone's looking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Be3jr45Ro )

My great uncle was killed in the action, so it's of considerable personal interest and what inspired the model. Overall Drachinifel is pretty accurate and a couple of snippets i'd not heard. (though Broke was built by Samuel White as 'Almirante Goni' not Vickers Armstrong - her 4in guns were made by Armstrong Whitworth. )
Remarkable to think of hand to hand combat with cutlass and bayonet during a destroyer action in 1917. In his papers Evans refers to losing 7 rifles and bayonets over the side "with Germans attached" - desperate stuff. 

And regarding stopping the sinking reocurring i think tony's right  - the first things i need to do are get the weight/ballast sorted and improve the seal. Flotation as a last resort might be possible, but it's secondary.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 05, 2022, 10:36:57 pm

Broke –  - now fixed!  - The Relaunch
 
Pleased to report that Mayhem at Wicksteed gave a super deadline to get HMS Broke back to working order.
I have to admit work had rather stalled since the sinking last year (see earlier post).
Anyway lots of rewiring later, a change to more conventional RC, and I was very happy to have her on the water.
(preceded by a bath test and a test in a friend's pool - lessons learned!!)
I abandoned the attempt at moving turrets. Just too heavy and ambitious for now.
The rest of the electronics – camera on bridge, smoke on/off, and sounds all worked fine – though sound volume leaves something to be desired.
I was particularly pleased that the 3 motor mixer using a cheap raspberry pi pico gave good control and manoeuvrability. i'll post something about it in the 'microprocessor control' section.
A great pleasure to meet other Mayhemmers at the weekend and put faces to mayhem names…

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on June 06, 2022, 10:39:21 pm

Broke looked a treat on the water John. It was lovely to meet you and hear about your woes, the return to action of Broke and the ideas that you had for her. I think that trying out a new idea on each new model allows you to test it in isolation, not distracted by other new technologies.

HMS Broke gave you the chance to design and print the hull, and to learn from that process. Next time, you can try out ideas for moving guns, now having got the hang of printing a hull. Then maybe a gun fire system or other could be tried on a further model! But a hobby is individual as the individual doing it, so take your time and don't fret if you are not meeting deadlines. These come from the world of work and have little place in a hobby except for such occasions as the person WANTING to get it done.


Cripes, we all have projects that have hung around for ages. Too many can be depressing, but two or three is good to allow you to chop and change as you wait for materials or enthusiasm or inspiration to solve a problem. Geoff spent months and months on his gun fire system and even had a couple major redesigns.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: Sealord on June 06, 2022, 10:59:18 pm

  Hi John, excellent work on the model, the only complicated bit is the programming to do the 3D printing, well it is for me,, {-)
      Best wishes and thanks for posting the thread, very interesting.. :-))

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on June 08, 2022, 09:59:48 am

Thanks Ian and Sealord  - encouragement always welcome and valued - particularly having had the chance to meet ian at wicksteed  - at least as positive in person as you are online!


yes i'm  starting to think about the next model - sms g42 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_G42 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_G42)   or/and hms swift appeal candidates as having been involved in the 1917 dover action.
 
i lean towards G42 even though to my eye Swift is prettier. I've not found any plans yet, but there is a 1:50 builders model of a sister ship at the maritime museum   https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-67387 (https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-67387)   that should give pretty good information.

if anyone knows a source of plans for 1913/v25 german torpedo boats - particularly the ones by F. Krupp at Germaniawerft, Kiel, i'd be interested to hear.

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: frogman3 on June 08, 2022, 11:07:28 am

HI John very nice model pity about the sinkin an you done very well to get it back an get it to relauanch  :-))
chris

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: ballastanksian on June 08, 2022, 12:25:37 pm

John,


If S49 is of the same class then the Polish model boats magazine has a plan in 1:300th that you could scale up. [size=78%]Polish magazine for shipmodellers MODELARSTWO OKRETOWE (modelboatmayhem.co.uk) (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,33472.50.html)[/size] Reply 63. Whilst from a different ship builder, there might be enough info to work from and get you going.


Pop the editor an email if interested and see if he has a back copy. on purchasing, he might be able to provide a translation and/or PDF for you translate yourself so you can glean any details. I hope this helps?

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on July 22, 2022, 12:37:01 pm

just posted - from mayhem weekend at wicksteed

https://youtu.be/B1K-O4VjFFA (https://youtu.be/B1K-O4VjFFA)

Title: Re: HMS Broke (1914) Flotilla Leader - scratch build 1/96 scale
Post by: JohnG on July 26, 2022, 10:49:47 am

Well, decision made – next model will be SMS G42.  I just made a first post:


https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=68486.new#new (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=68486.new#new)


i think it was the different people at the mayhem at wicksteed weekend asking ‘what will your next model be?’  that prompted me to actually get on with it – thank you mayhem!


(btw the youtube link in previous post is HMS broke at the mayhem weekend by 'RC MODEL WARSHIPS' channel - nice to see her on the water - esp as i was too busy to film it myself!   )
 

Quote from: JohnG on July 22, 2022, 12:37:01 pm

just posted - from mayhem weekend at wicksteed

https://youtu.be/B1K-O4VjFFA (https://youtu.be/B1K-O4VjFFA)