Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Glue etc. => Topic started by: colin-stevens on July 21, 2020, 12:09:33 pm
-
Hi, Just read a thread on best glue, but the last post was 2017, where Titebond 3 Ultimate was recommended. Just wondering if there is any new products that may be better/improved.
-
I tested out a bunch of different waterproof glues and found that the Aliphatic was the best
-
Please elaborate.
I note that the Evo-Stick in the picture is the green interior glue rather than the blue exterior glue and that the Titebond is the base glue rather than the waterproof Titebond III.
-
The DeLuxe Aliphatic is very good but there are others.
Colin
-
Sure. See Reply #63 in this thread where i described my tests https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,61135.msg647833.html#msg647833 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,61135.msg647833.html#msg647833)
Please elaborate.
-
Deluxe Aliphatic Resin works for me.
John
-
Perhaps I should have said that I will want to glue a double plank hull for a hull that will carry a steam plant.
Thanks for the pointers so far. I know what I am leaning towards, just want to see how many other suggestions I get for what is in my head.
Many thanks
-
If you've got time, you could use Cascamite. :-))
-
It at least partly depends on whether you need any gap filling ability.
-
Oooopps, no gap filling, do not plan on painting the hull. Its going to be bare wood (sealed)
-
If you've got time, you could use Cascamite. :-))
Did think of Cascamite, but the cascomite I remember and used, long time ago, came as a powder and was mixed with water. Great for a large amount of gluing but not so great for a few planks at a time. I also recall it being very brittle and not easy to apply to edges of planks.
Has it moved on?
-
For individual planking either use Deluxe Aliphatic or Deluxe Superphatic if yoy want a quick grab. It is effectively a water based superglue and will dry in half an hour or so, it penetrates well too. It is relatively expensive but a little goes a long way. It will also glue wood to other materials.
There really isn't much point in using Cascamite in this day and age unless you have a specialist requirement or want to go 'retro'.
Colin
-
For individual planking either use Deluxe Aliphatic or Deluxe Superphatic if yoy want a quick grab. It is effectively a water based superglue and will dry in half an hour or so, it penetrates well too. It is relatively expensive but a little goes a long way. It will also glue wood to other materials.
There really isn't much point in using Cascamite in this day and age unless you have a specialist requirement or want to go 'retro'.
Colin
Thank you colin, you have just confirming what I was thinking.
Many Thanks
Another Colin
-
Hi ya
I would go along with using Aliphatic Resin glue for gluing individual planks as for plank on frame construction - but - one of the biggest factors to take into consideration are:
a) what type of wood are you using to plank with
b) are you going to seal the planking with some form of waterproof coating - such as Epoxy resin - or a polyester resin with a top coat of waterproof paint
Basically, as long as the glued materials are kept dry and sealed from the elements (water) in theory there should be nothing wrong with using standard PVA glue. I have done that myself in the past and my models are still around today.
The golden rule is to ensure that any surface is sealed.
Normally, when constructing a hull, I seal the outside of the hull with an Epoxy resin - either a fine tissue matt or a woven roven matt in the mix.
On the inside of the hull, I will give it a full coating of polyester resin before I put the deck on, ensuring that the hull is well sealed. At the moment, I am busy diagonally planking a rather large model and I am using Alaphatic Glue - it tends to grip the planks in about 15 minutes, giving a good working time to shuffle the plank in the correct position. I know a lot of people use superglue, but, to me it doesn't give adequate time to get the planks in the correct position. I have even destroyed a plank trying to get it into the right position.
The other thing which springs to mind in some hulls, I pin the planks with brass nails.
Just my twopenneth worth.
-
Absolutely recommend the product having planked my life away %%
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Amati-Riva-Aquarama/i-BddXqzC/0/c69c302f/X2/5C39E5A6-1056-4AD4-AFED-3EA49301A3B4-X2.jpg)
-
As John quite rightly says, as long as the wood is sealed and cannot become damp you can use ordinary PVA but not only does aliphatic give a waterproof bond, it tends to sand better as well as it dries harder.
My current liner hull is a composite construction of balsa sheet, block and planking (plus filler!) to get the right shape which is quite complex. As the balsa is soft I have covered it with thin glass cloth and then used Deluxe Eze Kote instead of epoxy resin as I find it nicer to work with and easier to sand but that's just my personal preference. It isn't as strong as epoxy but is quite OK for a slowish moving scale model and I will be 'plating' the hull with paper soaked in Eze Kote anyway to give an extra layer of protection and make it look realistic.
In the end there are always different options, you just go with the ones you are most comfortable with.
Colin
-
Can you still get these mini clamps?!
(https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=65342.0;attach=203053;image)
-
Hobbycraft sell them
https://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/modelcraft-g_clamps-and-magnet/569353-1000 (https://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/modelcraft-g_clamps-and-magnet/569353-1000)
-
Much cheaper and in stock :-))
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modelcraft-3-G-Clamps-and-magnet/dp/B0041O683Y/ref=pd_lpo_60_t_2/259-0391455-4309920?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0041O683Y&pd_rd_r=1ee10800-28a0-4af7-a937-2db3bd5d2bb8&pd_rd_w=5IdC7&pd_rd_wg=Ks4Ww&pf_rd_p=7b8e3b03-1439-4489-abd4-4a138cf4eca6&pf_rd_r=F5FQZ8H1E3ND4KYRKFTY&psc=1&refRID=F5FQZ8H1E3ND4KYRKFTY
-
Hi ya Martin
A lot of my little clamps came from the '£1' shop - I just cant help buy them when seeing them in the cheap shop. I also go for cheap paint brushes for resin use - the artists ones - where you get about 9 brushes for-
£1's worth and also the epoxy glues are cheaper in there.
I know I paid about £2 for about 10 of these little clamps.
John
-
Good to know :-))
Any pound shop in particular?
I get 5 min resin from Poundland
-
Perhaps I should have said that I will want to glue a double plank hull for a hull that will carry a steam plant.
Thanks for the pointers so far. I know what I am leaning towards, just want to see how many other suggestions I get for what is in my head.
Many thanks
One of the problems with a double plank hull is that once you have moved a short distance from the bulwarks you can't get any clamps onto the planks you are laying. I have got some Wolfcraft long nose ratchet clamps which will take me 4" but that will not get me to the bottom planking. I was thinking of getting some chunky rare earth ( "Neo", NdFeB or Neodymium) magnets and clamp one inside one outside trouble is if you get too strong magnets you have a job separating them afterwards .
-
'Binding' the planks to the hull with adhesive or masking tape can be effective as you can get a pretty tight grip that way. Pulling the tape tight around the hull exerts a fair bit of pressure.
Colin
-
Hi ya there colin-stevens
it will be interesting to see what type of hull you are constructing for the steam engine - some hulls can be built on formers and the formers are removed and replaced with thin ribs - this is obviously an advantageous way of building the hull, if you are going to use a large steam engine as there is plenty of space.
Sometimes, you can build a hull and leave the frames in if you know exactly where you are going to position the steam engine and the boiler. In this situation, you could use brass pins to hold your planks in place. This would give you are more secure planking on the 2nd layer. I did build a hull a few years ago where it was double longitudinal planked as I was interested in the technique that the magazines were using when they were producing the builds of Bismarck and Hood in weekly parts - because the planks were at a set length and I was intrigued by this method, so, I built a hull like that. I secured the planks with brass pins and glue. Have a look at this link in Masterclass builds where this boat was originally going to have a steam engine and I think it ended up with an electric one. You may have seen the build, I am unsure.
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1951.0.html (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1951.0.html)
John
-
You can use proper planking clamps that screw into the formers and don't mark the outer plank.https://www.micromark.com/Planking-Clamps-10 (https://www.micromark.com/Planking-Clamps-10)
A bit expensive if you need a lot of them but you could make you own.
Jim
-
Hello,
I am just picking up on this thread. I am looking to join various pieces of (predominantly) plywood together to construct a simple hull. Is aliphatic still the preferred option please?
What would be the simplest approach to waterproofing the hull once it is assembled please?
Many thanks
Peter
-
In my opinion the "best" adhesive is slow set epoxy.
The other adhesive that I use is Titebond III in which I have confidence.
There are plenty of tests out there but few test for damp penetration etc. We each make our own choice.
-
If there is any chance of exposure to water i go for cascamite,personal choice
-
Cascamite is possibly stronger and more waterproof in the long term but Titebond 3 is pretty good and certainly easier to use unless you plan ahead so you don't have to make up small amounts of Cascamite. :-))
-
Hi ya Peter
I suppose really, this is one of those questions which opens a can of worms, as every modeller has his favourite ways of doing things and favourite materials to use. So, to ask a Forum like this one (an open Forum) you will receive many varied answers because each and every one has their own preference. Really, the golden rule is, there is no right way/wrong way, right stuff/wrong stuff - So I think the real answer is - have a read through and see what fits your bill and try it. As an old friend used to say - suck it and see.
I am going to put a couple of examples on which I myself have used - Epoxy finishing resin by itself on the outside of a hull. I have used Epoxy resin with a very fine woven material (similar to what the aircraft modellers skin their model aircraft wings with). Also, polyester resin, with tissue matt.
Also, there is an example of where I have glued a prop tube in place using 2 minute - 2 part Epoxy resin. The only time I use a 2 part Epoxy resin (the stuff you buy in tubes) is when I am bonding 2 totally dis-similar materials together. Such as the brass tube to plywood.
1st image: ZEpoxy with woven wroven
2nd image: " epoxy by itself
3rd image: Prop tube 2 part epoxy
4th image: Polyester resin with tissue matting
Something to think about ; John
-
Many thanks for the information and various options.
Plenty for me to think about.
Regards
Peter