Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: zooma on August 06, 2020, 03:29:24 pm

Title: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 06, 2020, 03:29:24 pm
Whilst hunting for another Lesro Rapier to fettle,  I came across a model with a very similar looking hull that was the same length as the Rapier and it also had that same distinctive pointed bow.


As this hull looks so similar my Rapier, I am guessing that it could be a Lesro Javelin?


Does anyone know if these two Lesro models shared the same hull by any chance?






Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: rnli12 on August 06, 2020, 03:47:24 pm
Hi,
From memory i think the Rapier was slightly smaller than the Javelin.
Rich
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 06, 2020, 04:00:50 pm
Hi Rich,


The Rapier and Javelin both measure just over 39" long (100cm), but I have seen another Lesro "open top" speedster that is smaller and still available as a new kit called the Arrow.


It does look very similar but it is only 25.7" ( 654mm) long.


Maybe the Arrow is a smaller version of the original Javelin, in the same way that the Stiletto is a smaller version of the Rapier?


Lesro looked to have scaled down these two original models for those that that preferred a smaller size version (probably a bigger market for slightly smaller boat kit) although both vary slightly from their bigger original family members.


Maybe the Stiletto and Arrow share similar hulls to each other as well?


Stay safe.


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Dave_S. on August 06, 2020, 08:00:40 pm
I have a half-built Lesro Arrow upstairs, marketed by SLEC now.


(It's only half-built because it's not long since I started it!)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 06, 2020, 10:07:18 pm
I have a half-built Lesro Arrow upstairs, marketed by SLEC now.


(It's only half-built because it's not long since I started it!)


Ha - funnily enough, I have an Arrow that has made even less progress than yours - the plastic sleeve is still wrapped around the wood  %)


I will have to see how much multi-tasking I can do - but I want to make a start on drawing out the keel and bulkhead shapes for a Swordsman next - whilst still working on my long term restoration of a Chris Craft Corvette and finishing my Remora before starting on another new project........or at least that would be the sensible thing to do  :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Dave_S. on August 07, 2020, 07:26:50 am
My Arrow build is having a rest for a few days, had a lot of other stuff (mainly music related) to do, and I have three builds going on at the moment, roughly at the same stage, so I pick up whichever i feel like. Yesterday that was the the small SLEC (Dave M) Huntsman, but the Arrow is still on the bench.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 10, 2020, 11:08:33 am
I ran the Rapier with an S50 prop this time instead of the 45X that I have been using and think the speed may have been fractionally slower (not enough to make any real difference), but the run times were slightly better.


Next time I will try a 40X and see what that does when still running on two cells.  The smaller prop will suite 3 cell running too, but I already have enough speed for our club lake so it would make an interesting test that I may find a helpful reference when I take it to a bigger area of open water.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 11, 2020, 10:31:20 pm
Sorry, my last comment should have been posted on the thread about my Rapier, but I sent it from the lake using my iPhone and managed to post it on this thread instead by mistake!


I have taken a punt and bought the model that I have seen (hoping that it will be a Javelin) and bought it from "the bay".  The seller has not claimed that this boat is a Javelin, but it very much looks like one and it is the same length as the Rapier, so I am hoping that when it arrives later this week it really is a Javelin!


If it does turn out to be a Javelin I will be very happy as both of these early LesRo models are now quite hard to find (apparently a lot more Javelin kits were sold than Rapier kits) and they will fill a gap in my classic model boat collection from the '60's.


The boat will need some work to restore it. The reason why I keep buying models like this that need restoring is because I cannot buy a new unbuilt kit (and this would be my preferred choice) or even a really nice smart example that does not need any work, but this one does not look too bad (in the pictures!) so here's hoping that it will not be another "basket case" as I have had my fair share of those recently and would really like to have an "easy ride" for a change.


The model currently has an 850 motor in it.  I have a spare brushless motor (exactly the same type that I have just fitted in my Rapier) and as long as my "hunch" is right and it does turn out to be a Javelin I will fit this motor as part of the re-fit as it should give a very similar performance in both boats.


........if it is not a Javelin, I will sell it and keep looking until I find one - but here's hoping I have found one!   :-))






Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 13, 2020, 05:01:01 pm
A rather large box was delivered yesterday afternoon, and inside it was indeed a LesRo Javelin!


The old eyes worked well enough on this occasion and correctly identified it when I first saw it at a "buy it now" price on eBay.


A direct comparison between this and my Rapier gave positive proof that they are almost the same boat - only the superstructure is different, but the two hulls are absolutely the same as each other.


Anyone wanting to convert a Javelin to a Rapier (or a Rapier to a Javelin) would only need to copy the different superstructure as there are no other differences, and this is good news for me as I like the way the Rapier drives and now I will be able to compare the Javelin (with the "kit position" prop shaft and rudder) against my Rapier's shortened shaft and forward rudder position.


I will be using exactly the same type of Turnigy 3648-1450 motor in this Javelin as it has more than enough performance for the boat.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on August 13, 2020, 06:49:56 pm
That's good news Bob, another one added to the collection.

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 13, 2020, 07:41:49 pm
That's good news Bob, another one added to the collection.

Chris


I was lucky Chris - it could have gone horribly wrong and I may have bought a nice looking model - but not the one I wanted to add to my classic 60's model boat fleet.


Even after I had bought it, I kept checking the eBay listing and had some doubts,  the seller never claimed it was a Javelin (maybe he didn't know what it was?) and the pictures were not clear enough to be certain - but I "went for it" anyway and kept my fingers crossed.


When it actually arrived and the hull matched the Rapier hull so perfectly I was able to relax..........and remove the Torpedo 850 motor, HobbyWing dual speed controller (made to control twin electric motors of a smaller size) and generally start to give it "a good coat of looking at".


I am selling some of my scale models as I am running out of space, and my interest has changed back to the models that I remember enjoying seeing and running in the 1960's. They are comparatively simple and usually have a lot less detail or need so much time spent scratch building small parts - but they do make white water and they make me smile  :-))


Stay safe!


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 14, 2020, 09:36:30 pm
I am not expecting any success with this appeal, but if anyone has a set of Javelin plans that they would like to sell (or send me a PDF copy of) it would be very helpful as my "new to me" Javelin never had the under-hull rails fitted and I would like to see the spacing and sizes of the original.


Purely as a matter of interest, the building instructions (for the Rapier and the Javelin) would be good to see too as I suspect they would read almost the same as each other apart from the superstructure assembly.   I could easily print a copy of these if anyone can send me a copy of them  - even on my temperamental old A4 printer!



My guess is that the under hull rails were probably made from 3/16 x 3/16 hardwood (and three on each side?) so I can probably work out the spacing near enough to look right. Maybe my "same hull" Rapier should have had them fitted too (?) but it certainly goes well enough without them so I doubt they could contribute much to the performance, but they do look good and it would be nice to make the model look authentic.


I will be changing the very fine section gunwale and deck rails (about 1/16 by 1/16) that were fitted to my Javelin to 1/8 x 1/4 as they look far too "puney"for the boat so I may as well add the under-hull rails at the same time prior to re-painting it.


Stay safe.


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 15, 2020, 09:16:37 pm
I was hoping to fit the same Turnigy 3648-1450 motor into this Javelin that works so well in the Rapier.


Sadly this motor is no longer available from HK and so I am a little stuck as I am not an expert on brushless motors and I would prefer to stay with what I know works well in the same hull.


Do we have any brushless experts (most brushless users will know more about them than myself) on here that can advise on an alternative source of this same motor, or of one that should be able to give a similar performance?







Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on August 15, 2020, 10:26:00 pm
Hi Bob

I think a lot of Turnigy motors are out of stock at the moment. Overlander Batteries do a 3542 1250kV which is pretty close and you could always run on a 3S LiPo.

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 16, 2020, 11:37:38 am
Hi Bob

I think a lot of Turnigy motors are out of stock at the moment. Overlander Batteries do a 3542 1250kV which is pretty close and you could always run on a 3S LiPo.

Chris


Hi Chris,



I really must find out a bit more about brushless motors, rather than taking "pot luck" on what "looks right" or has been know to work well in other models (although to be fair - this has held me in "good stead" so far !).


My guess has been that the first two numbers in the motor spec is the diameter of the can, so (using my 3648-1450 motor for this analysis) my motor would have a 36mm diameter can (body).


What the next two numbers are used to designate (in this case 48) is currently unknown to me - but perhaps it has something to do with the windings or the gauge of wire used in the windings?


After the dash (-) I read the number as being the KV rating, so in his instance my motor would have a 1450KV rating.  Even that is a bit of a mystery - what does that mean in practical terms?


Would a high KV motor of the type that I usually choose naturally give more power, and if so , is this because it can spin faster but may not have as much torque as the same motor with a lower KV rating?


If this is the case, a lower KV motor could be more suitable for turning a slightly bigger propeller and could be more thrifty on power consumption giving longer run times and possibly without giving away too much speed?




I am basing all of my reasoning on what I know works with brushed 540 type motors that I used for many years when I was younger and racing r/c model cars.


Less windings would give a lot more torque.


Lots of windings would give a smoother motor with less torque.




I need to get my head around how the brushless motor descriptions relate to their performance (in simple terms as described above for 540 brushed motors).


Stay safe.


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on August 16, 2020, 12:02:41 pm
Javelin pic montage with Rapier as comparison. Before and after mechanical bits.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 16, 2020, 01:04:14 pm
Thanks for posting the pictures for me Tony.


Both both boats measure 100cm and share the same hull, but in the pictures the Javelin looks shorter - not sure why?


The Javelin is a bit of a mystery insomuch that it came with a welded steel motor mount for an ic engine, and has holes bored in the bulkheads and stern for the exhaust, but there are no signs of where a fuel tank may have been mounted, and unusually there is not even the slightest hint of a fuel smell or any of the staining that inevitably happens to an ic powered model boat over time.


A new Torpedo 850 motor was fitted, but the HobbyWing speed controller fitted was the type designed to control a pair of smaller electric motors and I would not be sure that it could handle the large motor that was fitted.


The propeller actually touches the water scoop (so could not turn freely) and the new rudder scrapes the bottom of the hull and would need a small washer or spacer fitted to allow to to move freely without rubbing on the hull bottom.


The hull itself has a bit of a blotchy paint finish sprayed on it and so it has been nicely sealed ready for priming and a final paint application, but the two yellow hatch covers have been painted and finished to a really high quality finish  - something that I would struggle to come close to achieving!


The hull has an M5 shaft fitted and came with some spare props (one was M4) that are all very useful.


I am delighted with my purchase and the parts that came with it that will all get used (not necessarily on this boat), but its history would be nice to learn as it is such an enigma .  IC powered at one stage - but maybe not run?  Converted to electric power, but probably not run.  Beautifully sprayed and lacquered hatch covers, (with decals)  but with unfinished hull painting.


This will make a lovely model boat ........but its history will continue to be a puzzle. 
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 18, 2020, 11:32:36 am
Like waiting for a bus - you wait for ages, and then two (or three) come together.


There is another Javelin for sale on eBay at the moment if anyone is interested?


This one still has the 61 size glow engine in it - I suspect almost all Javelin models were powered by glow engines back when they were current.



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on August 18, 2020, 12:24:38 pm
A couple more pics!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 18, 2020, 12:31:17 pm
Hi Zooma
You have workout the brushless motor numbering pretty good !!
In the case of the 3648-1450kv, the 36 is the diameter, the 48 is the main body length and the big one , the kv is the number of rpm's per volt.
The power rating is on the maximum voltage(6S=22.5 volts).
Also the current rating is on the maximum worked out with the voltage.
The only trouble is it's all worked out using plane props!!!!
No info with using boat props !!!

But the 3648-1450 is a beast against the 3542-1450.

I think the 3542 only handles 4S.

Canabus
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on August 18, 2020, 01:22:33 pm
Hi Bob,
Irvine 61 gives about 1.7 hp and Super Tigre is about the same, both at about 16,000 revs. Equivalent to about 1200 watts! You probably knew this anyway but it's a decent number to play with innit!
Tony
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 19, 2020, 10:33:14 am
Hi Zooma
You have workout the brushless motor numbering pretty good !!
In the case of the 3648-1450kv, the 36 is the diameter, the 48 is the main body length and the big one , the kv is the number of rpm's per volt.
The power rating is on the maximum voltage(6S=22.5 volts).
Also the current rating is on the maximum worked out with the voltage.
The only trouble is it's all worked out using plane props!!!!
No info with using boat props !!!

But the 3648-1450 is a beast against the 3542-1450.

I think the 3542 only handles 4S.

Canabus


Thanks Canabus,


The second pair of digits are the missing link - they give the motors body length!  Thanks for that - it all makes more sense now. (obvious really - especially after it has been pointed out to me!).


So far, I have mainly "got by" with what "looks right" and what I have seen and used  in the past.  I must have been lucky because everything has worked so far - but that may just be because brushless motors are inherently powerful and so have a fair amount of flexibility.


I must admit that I do prefer the "look" of a longer can motor - longer armatures and longer magnets have got to be better surely?...and I have never had a problem finding enough space to fit any brushless motor so far - in fact, most brushless motors look totally "lost" in all my model boat hulls.


A pair of short brushless motors are on the way to try in my (never ending....) Corvette restoration. I am fitting them as it has been suggested that they will "do the job" for me and I am interested to see how well they can perform in such a large "barge" of a boat.


I know that a single 3648-1450 would shove the Corvette along OK, but I have no idea how to work out what PAIR of smaller motors would be needed to give the same sort of power output?  I should move this "twin motor" topic over to the Corvette thread rather than discuss it on this Javelin thread so you may well see this subject over there where it would be a lot more relevant....but your help with the motor demarkation has been very helpful - thank you!  :-))


Stay safe,


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 19, 2020, 10:44:19 am
Hi Bob,
Irvine 61 gives about 1.7 hp and Super Tigre is about the same, both at about 16,000 revs. Equivalent to about 1200 watts! You probably knew this anyway but it's a decent number to play with innit!
Tony


Thanks Tony,


That is an interesting statistic to be aware of as I understand the power of a 61 glow motor much better than that of a brushless motor.......at the moment!


All I need now is a simple formulae showing me how to work out the watts that brushless motors can make - and then I will know everything that I need to know about the power output of brushless motors when choosing one to fit into any model boat.


Stay safe!


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 19, 2020, 11:10:56 am
Hi Zooma
Power (Watts) is volts times Amps !!!
As for twin brushless motors drop to motor body length and you drop power.

Comparing the 3648-1450kv, the Banggood Surpass Hobby C3542-1450kv is 1050Watts on 4S pulling 78Amps.
I have just put one in my old speed boat(740mm length)  to up it from the C3542-1250kv.

Prop is a 3 blade 28mm.

These dam good motors, I bought one as a trail and another three after that!!

Canabus
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on August 19, 2020, 11:25:36 am
Bob

Twin motors over single don't really add much if anything to top speed and in theory will increase acceleration but that is usually enough with one brushless motor anyway. You could go slightly less power for each of the motors but as space isn't an issue I wouldn't bother. Better to have a bit more power than required as it can be regulated by the throttle or batteries.


Number of engines etc. has more relevance with full sized boats whereas with brushed motors they are usually over powered and having more than one motor is more to do with a scale model matching the full sized. My thoughts anyway, which could be wrong!

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 19, 2020, 02:41:11 pm
Hi Zooma
Power (Watts) is volts times Amps !!!
As for twin brushless motors drop to motor body length and you drop power.

Comparing the 3648-1450kv, the Banggood Surpass Hobby C3542-1450kv is 1050Watts on 4S pulling 78Amps.
I have just put one in my old speed boat(740mm length)  to up it from the C3542-1250kv.

Prop is a 3 blade 28mm.

These dam good motors, I bought one as a trail and another three after that!!

Canabus
 


Hi Canabus,


Now that is very interesting - and somewhat spoils my theory about the longer can motors being better!


You compare my favourite Turnigy 3648-1450 motor  with the shorter Surpass 3542-1450.


What is the main difference you have found between them?


I just happen to have a new Surpass 3542-1450 motor here - maybe I should try it in my Javelin rather than trying to find another Turnigy 3648-1450 ?


It is certainly a lot less expensive motor (maybe be not quite so pretty to look at) but a bargain if it works as well!


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 20, 2020, 03:20:08 am
Hi Zooma

Hope to test the 3542-1450 on Saturday depends on our winter weather.
The prop is a 3blade 28mm, so it will load to motor up more than a 32mm 2blade.

I will have to change the ESC to one which handles 4S.
Surpass have a few others I would like to test out.

Canabus
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 22, 2020, 11:12:13 am
Hi Zooma
A nice winter's morning and old speed boat with the C3542-1450kv on 4S was on song, but, I feel like the 3 blade prop was loading the motor at the top end.
The motor has not got the torque of the 3648-1450kv, but still a dam good motor for under a 30" boat.

Next test is to a 2 blade prop !!!

The Surpass 3674-1580kv looks like an interesting replacement for the 3648-1450kv!!!!

I must finish the limo Swordsman I started years ago !!!!

Canabus
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 22, 2020, 11:36:51 am
Hi Canabus,


Thanks for the progress report about the Surpass 3542-1450 in your old speed boat - it sounds like it could be a good option to consider for my Vic Smeed Remora as that has a shallow hull and is about 30" long.


I have not seen the Surpass 3674-1580KV motor but it has the right numbers to give the Turnigy 3648-1450KV a run for its money, so let me know if you test one as the Surpass motors are good and are not expensive to buy.


Your "limo" Swordsman project looks good - it almost has the pointed nose of the Rapier/Javelin and with the hull extended it must be getting close to being the same length too (39") so it could be an ideal candidate for the 3674-1580KV Surpass motor  :-))


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 22, 2020, 07:41:41 pm
Hi Zooma
A nice winter's morning and old speed boat with the C3542-1450kv on 4S was on song, but, I feel like the 3 blade prop was loading the motor at the top end.
The motor has not got the torque of the 3648-1450kv, but still a dam good motor for under a 30" boat.

Next test is to a 2 blade prop !!!

The Surpass 3674-1580kv looks like an interesting replacement for the 3648-1450kv!!!!

I must finish the limo Swordsman I started years ago !!!!

Canabus




Hi Harry. 


Regarding the Surpass 3674-1580KV


Is that the model car in-runner motor (in a red can)?

I have never tried an in-runner in a model boat, but it looks like it will fit onto the alloy water-cooled mounts that I fit into all my hulls, so it could be worth a try.

Bob.


Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 23, 2020, 08:31:20 am
Hi Zooma
I have the plans of the Remora in 30 and 34", which is close to my 28" Waverider.
The 3674-1580 is an in runner with 25mm mount hole spacing.
I think it would out run the 3548-1450 !!!!

The Swordsman has a 1500 in it which is not available now.
I lengthen the Swordsman to get the batteries between the frames.
Also built in the spray and chine rails into the bottom of the hull.
I had an old IC (Southern Cross) deep vee with the chine rails built into it and it was a super dry running boat in rough water.
So I decided to try that on the Swordsman !!!
What a nightmare it turnout to be !!!!

But I with finish it.

Canabus
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 23, 2020, 11:42:29 am
Thanks for the reply Harry,


Your "limo" Swordsman build is very interesting and I think the red can model car motor is well worth a try at only £20 from Bangood currently!


Strangely enough I have been considering designing a "Swordmanish" cabin shape to fit on my Javelin as I think it may look better than the ocean racer original and i thought it would be unique - but may end up looking a bit like your limo Swordsman - and the same sort of size too..


I still have the December 1964 Model Maker magazine that was delivered to my parents house by our local newsagent. I had it delivered every month as it sometimes sold out before I could get down to my local model shop in Bath (The Modellers Den) and I still have the free Christmas plan that I built my first Remora from, and it is being used again now to build my current Remora (almost finished and at the painting stage).


The original Vic Smeed plan was 30" - I never knew that there was a 34" lengthened version - maybe somebody scaled it up - was it ever available in print?


Stay safe!


Bob.







Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Leaky Bottom on August 23, 2020, 11:51:22 am
Hi Canabus,


Thanks for the progress report about the Surpass 3542-1450 in your old speed boat - it sounds like it could be a good option to consider for my Vic Smeed Remora as that has a shallow hull and is about 30" long.


I have not seen the Surpass 3674-1580KV motor but it has the right numbers to give the Turnigy 3648-1450KV a run for its money, so let me know if you test one as the Surpass motors are good and are not expensive to buy.


Your "limo" Swordsman project looks good - it almost has the pointed nose of the Rapier/Javelin and with the hull extended it must be getting close to being the same length too (39") so it could be an ideal candidate for the 3674-1580KV Surpass motor  :-))


Bob.


Hello


I see you are considering using a 3542-1450 motor in your remora, I think this motor would be more than adequate for a remora, I run mine with a 3535-1250 motor on 3s lipo with a s40 prop and it gives excellent performance
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 23, 2020, 01:04:37 pm
Hi Lads

I had the plans of the Remora resize by 113% to 863mm(34"). by the local print shop.
I have it save as a PDF if you are interested.
I save a number of plans on PDF.
I find a 28 to 36" boat is a good size to build and to get radio and batteries into.
The last boat was a Eileen fishing boat with a lift out deck section between the hatch and wheelhouse.
Canabus
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 23, 2020, 01:44:36 pm

Hello


I see you are considering using a 3542-1450 motor in your remora, I think this motor would be more than adequate for a remora, I run mine with a 3535-1250 motor on 3s lipo with a s40 prop and it gives excellent performance
 


Hi Leaky Bottom,


I have not finished painting my Remora yet (run-out of French Blue paint!), but I have already chosen a lower power brushless motor for it as the Remora was designed as a steering model.  My previous Remora (circa 1969ish) had an OS40 marine motor in it (it started with an OS 21 marine motor) and it ran quite nicely.  I know that the Remora is capable of handling seriously bigger power units, but I am starting with a more modest motor as I already have a few adrenaline pumping model boats and (to start with at least) I will enjoy sailing it at a similar speed to my OS40 powered original.



Some threads tend to naturally "veer-off" topic and accumulate interesting information that is not directly related to the main theme - and this can make a very interesting thread (like this one) - but it can also get a bit confusing too!


The mention of the bigger sized and alternative motors started because my first choice of motor for my Javelin (the 3648-1450) is not currently available and it may have possibly even been discontinued.


I have been using the 3648-1450 motor in my restored Rapier (same hull as the Javelin) where it has performed really well and so (if it were available) I would choose to fit another one in my Javelin - and possibly in my next Swordsman build too!


Naturally when recommendations are offered for suitable alternative motors they will be accompanied by references to how these motors have performed on other hulls as a helpful reference and that is what is happening here - and it is VERY helpful as it gives me a good idea of how they could perform in my Javelin.


I am really pleased that this Javelin thread has attracted such helpful contributions and they have all been interesting to read and contributed a lot for me to think about.










Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 24, 2020, 04:39:07 am
Hi Zooma
Check up on the 3648-1450kv Hobbyking have drop it off their website !!!

I am lucky, I have two spares in my bits box!!!

Canabus
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 25, 2020, 10:46:03 am
It looks like the older range of Turnigy motors (those with the red/black colours) have all been discontinued.


Maybe the newer SK3 range will have a similar offering sometime soon (fingers crossed).  I have an SK3 3542-1250 on order ready to test in my Rapier.


Hobby King claim :-   "Turnigy SK3 Motors are the next leap forward in motor quality and design".


Maybe the motor will surprise me by performing better than expected......and give me longer run times than my "old" 3648-1450 too!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 25, 2020, 11:20:37 am
Hi Zooma

I have  a few SK3 motors, they are good ones.

Hobbyking as stop have a lot of stuff over the last four years, so I am more looking at Banggood.
Checkout the local hobby shop today.
Mtroniks Marine 15($75 au) Viper Marine 25($99.95au) Marine 30($105au) Hydra 30($205au).

Banggood Quicrun 1060 Brush ESC 60Amp $37.84au + postage $3.82au, order 2 and 10% discount same postage !!!
The connectors are rubbish, but easily change to gold 3mm and XT60 !!!
Canabus
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 25, 2020, 11:26:31 am
Thanks Harry,


MTronics are "local" to me but (stranegly enough) I had not thought about using their speed controllers - I usually use SeaKing or the Turnigy branded versions of them.


I always use water-cooled speed controllers - but I know that you don't - so what have you found that works well with the 3648-1450?


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 25, 2020, 11:48:17 am
Hi Bob

The club was using Hobbyking car ESC's, so I used them.
But not available so change to Surpass car ESC 120Amp 2-6S (ID 1427492)($63.29au) with the Racestar Program card( ID 1057127)($11.34au).

These workout to be about the same price as the Hobbyking ones, but handle 2-6S not 2-4S also handle 20Amps more!!!

These have an electric fan on top so cooling is not a problem and as the 3548-1450 is an outrunner.
So I never added water cooling to any of my boats !!!

Too many fast runs and the old boys get a bit upset !!!

I do when I run my fishing boats !!!!

SIR Harry

Senior

In

Retirement

Soon to be a great grandfather !!!!

I am too young for it !!!

Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 25, 2020, 02:11:31 pm
Thanks for the info Sir Harry, Senior (retired),



I may try a non-water-cooled set-up in the Javelin using a brushless motor with a car speedo (with fan) and see how it goes.


I am also retired Harry and I will be 71 at the start of September, and our three sons have produced 5 grand children so far (plus one via a previous marriage) and we have another fresh one due towards the end of the year!


Our sons live away so we don't get to see the grandchildren as often as we would like, but it is always nice to see them when we can.


Stay strong - you will get over it - and the next ones won't seem such a blow to you!


Bob.







Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 26, 2020, 10:19:30 am
Hi Spring Chicken
I was 71 in July !!!

Our little Poppet arrived at 1.27am this morning.

Talk about up before the sparrows !!!!

Mother and great granddaughter all OK !!!

So they are in the middle of Melbourne, so we can not visit.

The other two grand kids are one in Sydney and the other in Queensland !!!
Talked to all of them on Zoom on Sunday .
Harry
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 26, 2020, 10:48:36 am
Congratulations Grandad  :-)) 


That must have been very stressful for you - time to sit down and have a nice mug of cocoa in front of the fire (with your slippers on).


You have got to be careful at your age, so stay safe and take it easy!


Bob.  (young Bob). %)







Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on August 26, 2020, 11:18:57 am
Congratulations from me as well Harry.

Young Chris only 66 for three more months.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 26, 2020, 11:41:37 am
Hi Lads
Thank you for you replies, but sitting down having a few cold beers.

Cocoa, I am that old !!!!

Only a few days until the end of Winter !!!

Only windy Autumn and into the good stuff.

Safe and free to travel our little island.

A dozen boats at our last meeting !!!

Great Grand Pop
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 27, 2020, 03:43:44 am
Hi Bob and Chris

Photo of my old speed boat with the C3542-1450kv, 4S lipo and a 3blade 30mm prop.
This is about half speed for the camera man !!!

Harry
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on August 27, 2020, 09:46:22 am
Hello Harry,


Thats a nice brightly coloured boat - and it looks like the C3542-1450 motor shoves it along quite nicely.


How does the model compare with the Javelin's 39" length? 


Also, are you using the Surpass 120amp car ESC in it?


I have sent away for one of these speedos and I already have a C3542-1450 so I am wondering if this could be a combo for me to try as my first "non-water-cooled" motor and ESC combo in the Javelin, but I am also thinking about trying a pair of them in my 48" Corvette as that is a big hull with plenty of air space in it to help with the air flow cooling.


Pleased to see your winter weather is not looking too bad either!


Bob.







Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 27, 2020, 10:16:49 am
Hi Bob
The old School Speed Boat is 28 and 1/2 x 8 and 7/8".

Using a Hobbyking car ESC 100 Amps.

The Surpass 120Amp is in my Precedent Huntsman with 3548-1450kv, 4S Nano Tech Lipo 90C and a 2 blade 40mm CNC prop.

Twin C3542's the  48" should work OK, that's 2100 Watts on 4S.

Two more 120Amp ESC turnup today !!!

Harry
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on August 27, 2020, 11:22:04 am
Talking of motors here is my latest project, a Huntress with stern-drive with 36mm 2 bladed prop, it is being fitted with an Overlander 35/36 1050kV. At 23" it should go pretty well.

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on August 27, 2020, 01:26:52 pm
Hi Chris
If you change to a C3542-1450 on 4S she will sit up on the prop in a straight line.

Harry
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on September 03, 2020, 07:59:06 pm
Hi Zooma
Check up on the 3648-1450kv Hobbyking have drop it off their website !!!

I am lucky, I have two spares in my bits box!!!

Canabus


Hello Harry,


I had a pair of the red 3674 2250KV in-runner motors arrive in the post today.


The 120amp "waterproof" speedo that you suggested arrived earlier, so when I get back from my trip to the caravan I will connect one of these motors up to the ESC and make sure it works OK.


I am tempted to try a pair of non water-cooled speed controllers in my Corvette running a pair of 3548 900KV motors.  I have not checked yet, but I guess Surpass make smaller ESC, but I have plenty of room in the Corvette (!) so I could go for safety and fit a pair of these 120amp ESC as I can use them for other things too!


Bob.



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on September 04, 2020, 05:05:12 am
Hi Zooma
So the 2250kv's would be 24975 rpm on 3S, that's 3,500 rpm more than the 1450kv's on 4S(unloaded).
The corvette will fly!!!!
No boating this weekend, off to the shack to cleanup!!!

May slip the Waverider in for a quick spin at the end on the block!!!
Depends on weather and tide!!!

Harry
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on September 04, 2020, 08:49:02 am
Enjoy your weekend Grandad. :-))


I was thinking about a pair of 3548 900KV in the Corvette - a much more modest power that would be more suitable perhaps (?) - at least to start with!


The 3674 2250KV red car motor I was thinking could be a good choice for the Javelin/Swordsman/Rapier as a replacement for the no-longer available 3648 1450KV that I would have preferred if I was still able to buy one.


I am also away this weekend - I will be celebrating my 71st birthday by staying in our static caravan (close to our club lake!) and taking my Rapier with me.


An Inception and a Pursuit are kept in the caravan as they don't take up much space and are always ready to go if I fancy a "fast blast" - but I only run these "out of hours" when regular club members are not on the water as they a bit boisterous. I ran the Pursuit on 4 cells last Sunday afternoon when nobody else was on the water and it was super-fast and a real challenge to keep it within the designated club water limits!


Stay safe!


Young Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on September 04, 2020, 12:24:31 pm
Hi Zooma
So the 2250kv's would be 24975 rpm on 3S, that's 3,500 rpm more than the 1450kv's on 4S(unloaded).
The corvette will fly!!!!
No boating this weekend, off to the shack to cleanup!!!

May slip the Waverider in for a quick spin at the end on the block!!!
Depends on weather and tide!!!


Harry - with talk of such high revs have you ever had any problems with the prop shafts? The Raboesch Maintenance Free ball-raced and Delrin bearing type that I use are stated as being rated to 15k and the model down is rated to 10k. I know that shafts for race boats use different bearing materials. I'm ensuring that by battery choice I'm keeping the revs around 11k or less which is fine for my type of boats.


Happy birthday for your upcoming 71st Bob.


Chris


Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on September 04, 2020, 04:01:38 pm
Hi Chris,


Most fast racing boats have flexi- drive shafts these days, but you are unlikely worry your 5mm shafts in your Fairey fleet.


My Rapier is as fast as anything that is not surface piercing and that is trundling around nicely on a plain bearing 5mm prop shaft.


I just stripped the shaft to grease it after checking that I have no wear (end play) and it looks fine - and this was the original shaft (sort of) that must be very old - but I wanted a slightly longer inner shaft so I bought a spare 5mm maxi- shaft stainless inner from modelboatbits.


Strangely, the 5mm maxi shafts are a bigger size 5mm than any of my old 5mm inner shafts so I had to drill the bearings out slightly to be able to fit it !


Enjoy your weekend- and don’t worry about your prop shafts!


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on September 04, 2020, 05:30:47 pm
No, not worried Bob, as I will be running well within the designed limit and only able to go fast for short bursts at our club. Just wondering what the situation is when running at the 20k revs plus that Harry was referring to.

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on September 06, 2020, 08:00:46 am
Hi Zooma Bob

Well happy birthday, old chap !!!!

My prop shafts are 4mm stainless with a ball race top bearing and a Teflon lower bearing.
The whole drive line is from Banggood, but, a club member makes the Teflon bearings.

Grease is silicon waterproof.

My test area at the shack has no speed limit, but me go over fast !!!!

Harry
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on September 06, 2020, 11:15:07 am
Thanks Harry,


I am pleased to hear that there are no speed limits to reduce the amount of white water you can make with your Waverider when you pop out from your shack to have a sail.


Ball raced prop shafts? I must admit that I have never checked Banggood for prop shafts, but I will take a look when I get home to see what lengths are available.


Having never owned or run a boat with a ball raced shaft, I will see if I can find one to fit my Swordman build so I can give one a try, but I am reluctant to take the M5 shaft out of the Javelin as it will make more work and I have plenty of other projects on the go at the moment!


I am off to the lake now - the sun has just gone in and we have had a shower, so some of the club members will have gone home as they don’t like their boats getting wet (!!!) and this will give me a it more space to run, so I will put the Inception in the boot and give it a run.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on September 18, 2020, 05:16:13 pm
Hi Zooma Bob

Well happy birthday, old chap !!!!

My prop shafts are 4mm stainless with a ball race top bearing and a Teflon lower bearing.
The whole drive line is from Banggood, but, a club member makes the Teflon bearings.

Grease is silicon waterproof.

My test area at the shack has no speed limit, but me go over fast !!!!

Harry


I can’t find any ball raced prop shafts on Banggood which is a shame as I would like to try one - and their prices would be good too
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on September 20, 2020, 10:48:34 am
Hi Bob


Banggood ID 934428 from 10 to 35cm length.


Also they have nice CNC props.


Harry
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on September 20, 2020, 11:48:04 am
Thanks Harry,


When I get back in the week I will take a look!


Enjoy your weekend!


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on January 31, 2021, 06:47:27 pm
Hi there “zooma”


I’ve only just joined this forum as I’ve stumbled across your posts regarding the Javelin. I have a Javelin that I built in about 1994 with an ic glowplug motor. It’s been in my parent’s attic for years until recently as they were having a clear out. Lockdown has renewed my interest in the boat and I decided last April to look into converting it to electric and giving it some tlc as the paintwork is a little crazed!


I’ve spent a while in April researching info on brushless motors, esc etc. I wish that I had found this thread of yours back then! Anyway I am planning to alter the superstructure (sacrilege perhaps?) to give it a more offshore powerboat appearance.


I quite prefer the simpler Lesro Arrow style and have found some interesting modded versions online.


If I can be of assistance with any dimensions etc? I believe you were after the spacing of the underside strips (forgive my incorrect terminology).
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on January 31, 2021, 08:58:05 pm
Hi Stuw - nice to have another Javelin owner onboard.

I actually thought that the Javelin was meant to be an off-shore racer ? The cabin cruiser version that used exactly the same hull is the Rapier.

The Arrow is only a smaller version of the Javelin, but I have seen a black and white painted Arrow (on uTube and the Tamiya owners site) that has been given a slight Sunseeker influenced facelift (including the wings) to make it look a little less like an off-shore racer - and more like a Sunseeker!

Last year I found a new LesRo Streaker kit on eBay, I put a bid in for it and won it.  I think this is exactly the same as the Javelin and only the name was changed - so I now have all three versions that LesRo used this same 39" long hull for  - even if two of them (Javelin and Streaker) are actually the same boat.

The Streaker kit was un-touched and still has the plan with it, so I now have the spacing for the strakes - but thanks for the offer of some help with the measurements.

Altering the superstructure sounds interesting - I have been thinking about changing the "superstructure" (or the lack of it!) on mine to a fast cruiser style - more like an up to date and less angular Rapier.

Let me know how you get on - it sounds interesting

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Backerther on February 01, 2021, 03:38:55 am
Hi Stuw;
I am interested in your looking into the conversion of the powerplant to electric motor for the boat
originally built in 1994.
That is because I also did it about 7 years ago to my 99cm Jupiter F-99 originally built with 60 glow engine
in 1979.
Here are the pics below for your information.
The motor is 3974-2200KV brushless, water-cooled,max current 100A at 18.5V according  to the manufacturer.
ESC is constant current 120A water-cooled also from the manufacturer's spec.
I am using 3 cell-lipo and this is sufficient for my Jupiter-F99 . See the following video for reference.
The coupling is double disk type and not oldham's coupling,see below.


The first pic below is what is at 2014, yellowed due to placed beside the window with no cover at all. {:-{


(1) taka's model boat **Mr SKG's JUPITER 2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq6P0JV0TdU)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 01, 2021, 10:02:45 am
My Rapier (same hull as the Javelin) has a really impressive performance with a Turnigy 3648-1450.  This is an out-runner motor.


If you prefer an in-runner, the Surpass 3574-2250KV has been on offer on Bangood recently for less than £20, and if you would like it to be water-cooled, a slide-on water cooling jacket is available for another fiver.


Both are anodised in red and look really smart.


This is what I have bought for my Javelin and I am confident that I will not be short of power.


Bob.




Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 01, 2021, 03:57:21 pm
Nice set up and lovely looking on the water.


I haven’t run my Javelin yet as she needs some serious tlc first. I think my prop shaft isn’t true and is vibrating somewhat. Thought I could get a new inner shaft but sounds like dimensions may have changed after all these years and don’t fancy trying to drill out the bearings so may take the step of trying to bash out the old shaft without ruining the boat  :((  ? Any ideas?


I sourced a Dynamite 3674 1900Kv brushless motor (DYNM3915) and Dynamite 120A marine 2-6S ESC both water cooled early last year. Looks like I could have found a cheaper motor if I’d seen this thread! I am going to extend the motor to esc wires myself as they use 5.5mm bullet connectors so that I can locate the ESC somewhere suitable.


I’m planning to run it on 7.4v 2S pack to start with as I didn’t want to overdo it but looks like zoomas Rapier is running 4S and similar Kv motor? Wasn’t sure on max revs versus propshaft. Obviously out of water rpm will be higher but is there a way to estimate running rpm?


I’m trying to work out how to upload some photos. They should appear but are probably very low res as I’m trying to get something up and it’s frustrating!


I’m not satisfied with my forward hatch as it doesn’t quite sit correctly so might create a new one. My initial idea to remove most of the “superstructure” forward of the cockpit (albeit not really much!) might be scrapped and I will perhaps try to keep her as original as possible as there aren’t many about it would seem.


My Javelin doesn’t have a hatch in the centre but I might try to retro fit one.  I want to apply a new paint scheme and plan to spray paint and apply trim tape and add some cleats and fairleads. Planning to create an instrument panel with wheel and dummy throttles to add a bit of detail.


It used to be powered by a Magnum GP40 Ex RC aircraft power plant which I had converted to marine water cooled use by fashioning a water jacket around the head. Worked pretty well.


Haven’t done any model building of this type since I built the Javelin back in the 90s so we will see if the ideas in my head can be translated into reality!


Seeing the info on here has given me more energy and enthusiasm to get on with it! is it just me or is it somewhat time consuming to post on here to avoid spammers and bots?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 01, 2021, 05:15:27 pm
Thats a nice paint scheme you have there Stuw - bright and colourful - perfect for an off-shore powerboat!

My Swordsman build is taking a lot of my bench time at the moment, but I did take a look at setting my small bandsaw up again with the little jig that I made to cut some more strakes to add to my Javelin and Rapier hulls as neither of them have any strakes fitted.

I restored my Rapier and bought the Javelin on eBay, so I never built either of them from new, but neither builder of the originals fitted any strakes.

The slightly over-size strakes that I intend making will look nice and aggressive (same as I have just fitted to my Swordsman build) - so even if they make no difference to the performance - they will look good!  I think 3 on each side will look "right" but I will check it when I have them cut as being a littler bigger,  two on each side may be enough and look better.

My Rapier is nice and quick when running only on 2 cell 5600mah 65C LiPo cells on our club lake, but on more open water I can change to 3S or 4S (using a smaller dia prop) and it could easily get a bit "silly" O0

I had a similar problem as you have with the prop shaft on my Rapier - it was an old 2BA size and I fitted an M5 stainless inner shaft - and that did need the old shaft bearing opening-out slightly. If you prefer to change the shaft and fit a new one - this is how I change mine:-

After taking everything out of your hull (including the inner shaft) scrape away any adhesive/filler around the shaft that you can get to, and then give the end of the shaft a sharp bang with a heavy hammer. This usually shatters any old glass fibre/epoxy/filler/cyno that may have been used when the shaft was fitted.

Once loose, you can wiggle it about and remove any fractured lumps of old hardened glue/filler etc until you can withdraw the old prop shaft.  Once the old shaft is out of the hull, you can clean everything up and fit the new M5 shaft. 

As a matter of interest I may still have the old 2BA inner shaft that I removed from my Rapier.  I rolled it on glass to check it, and it still runs straight and true. When I take a good look at my Javelin I will see if the inner shaft runs true on glass and if does and there isn't any play in the bearings - it can stay in the boat. If anything is wrong I will remove it (using the method described) and order a new one from ModelBoatBits to replace it.

You will see that the new M5 shafts have a slightly smaller dia brass outer tube than the old heavy brass tubes used in the earlier 2BA propshafts, so you will gain a little more "wriggle room" to get your new shaft to run straight and centrally in your hull when you fit your new shaft.

Stay safe!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 01, 2021, 05:33:43 pm
Thanks for all that good info. I shall give it a try. Although the paint job looks good on low res photo it’s nearly 27 years old! I need to patch the side where I put a hole for the glow exhaust and I cut a slot in the forward cabin to assist with air cooling the old motor.


My paint scheme seems to correlate with the stock internet photos of the original box cover. I had added a stencilled “Javelin” to the sides and that’s how I managed to search for similar boats after all these years as I had forgotten the make!


I shall make a proper stand as well as the cardboard box doesn’t look right.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 01, 2021, 07:36:31 pm
I think your cardboard box stand looks a little better than my wooden ones :embarrassed:

If you can save your 2BA prop shaft, all of the M5 propellors will fit it OK.  (As a matter of interest, the smaller 4BA shafts can use M4 propellers too!).

British Associated (BA) threads are a metric thread ("not a lot of people know that") and way back in the 1960's when all our prop shafts were either 4BA or 2BA we always used M5 and M4 propellers and they fit OK.

I have never seen a Javelin box - I will take a look online to see if I can find a picture of one as it may give me an idea for a nice paint scheme !

Stay safe - Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 01, 2021, 07:43:09 pm
Hi Stuw;
I am interested in your looking into the conversion of the powerplant to electric motor for the boat
originally built in 1994.
That is because I also did it about 7 years ago to my 99cm Jupiter F-99 originally built with 60 glow engine
in 1979.
Here are the pics below for your information.
The motor is 3974-2200KV brushless, water-cooled,max current 100A at 18.5V according  to the manufacturer.
ESC is constant current 120A water-cooled also from the manufacturer's spec.
I am using 3 cell-lipo and this is sufficient for my Jupiter-F99 . See the following video for reference.
The coupling is double disk type and not oldham's coupling,see below.


The first pic below is what is at 2014, yellowed due to placed beside the window with no cover at all. {:-{



I’m not familiar with that type of connector between motor and shaft. Is it flexible at all?


Also it looks as though you have a servo set up to operate a micro-switch near to the motor. What does it do?


Here is a pic of the underside with the strakes that I fitted. I assume I put them as per the plans?







Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 01, 2021, 08:06:17 pm
Thanks for the picture of the underside of your hull to show the three strakes per side.

I cannot answer the parts of your question directed to Backerther, but I would suggest that you use a Powerflex coupling from MBB here in the UK - they work well and and have a small amount cushioning (flex).  They also make a solid bar that has the same dimensions as the Powerflex couplings to use as an alignment coupling to fit when you are aligning your motor and prop shaft.

When all of your adhesives that are being used on your motor mounts and prop shaft are dry, and everything is securely fixed in position, this solid alignment coupling is removed and the Powerflex coupling is fitted instead.  I would not run with a solid coupling.

My fast boats have no reverse function on the ESC and no servo operated micro-switch power cut-off. The fewer connectors and joints that you have between the LiPo and the ESC the better to avoid power loss.  I have found one pair of XT90 plugs give a solid and reliable connection between the LiPo and the ESC and being non reversible they avoid any unwanted "shorts" or "reverse polarity" connection mistakes.

The failsafe is set on my RadioLink RC4GS transmitter to close the throttle in the event of any signal loss.

Hope this helps.

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: JimG on February 01, 2021, 08:34:30 pm
[quote author=Stuw link=topic=65422.msg711055#msg711055 date=1612195041
Seeing the info on here has given me more energy and enthusiasm to get on with it! is it just me or is it somewhat time consuming to post on here to avoid spammers and bots?

Just be patient for a bit longer Stuw, if I remember correctly the checks stop once you reach 10 posts, you should soon reach that.
Jim
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 02, 2021, 08:58:34 am
[quote author=Stuw link=topic=65422.msg711055#msg711055 date=1612195041
Seeing the info on here has given me more energy and enthusiasm to get on with it! is it just me or is it somewhat time consuming to post on here to avoid spammers and bots?

Just be patient for a bit longer Stuw, if I remember correctly the checks stop once you reach 10 posts, you should soon reach that.
Jim


Ah ok. Patience needed! I’m nearly there...


Thanks for the picture of the underside of your hull to show the three strakes per side.

I cannot answer the parts of your question directed to Backerther, but I would suggest that you use a Powerflex coupling from MBB here in the UK - they work well and and have a small amount cushioning (flex).  They also make a solid bar that has the same dimensions as the Powerflex couplings to use as an alignment coupling to fit when you are aligning your motor and prop shaft.

When all of your adhesives that are being used on your motor mounts and prop shaft are dry, and everything is securely fixed in position, this solid alignment coupling is removed and the Powerflex coupling is fitted instead.  I would not run with a solid coupling.

My fast boats have no reverse function on the ESC and no servo operated micro-switch power cut-off. The fewer connectors and joints that you have between the LiPo and the ESC the better to avoid power loss.  I have found one pair of XT90 plugs give a solid and reliable connection between the LiPo and the ESC and being non reversible they avoid any unwanted "shorts" or "reverse polarity" connection mistakes.

The failsafe is set on my RadioLink RC4GS transmitter to close the throttle in the event of any signal loss.

Hope this helps.

Bob.


Hi Bob, again that’s all useful and helpful guidance to reduce the chances of messing it up. I only have the supplied length of wire from the hard case Lipo and then a Deans to XT90 converter to the ESC. From what I have read the wires from battery shouldn’t be lengthened to avoid fire risk and losses but the ESC to brushless motor wires can be extended so that’s my plan.


Another rookie question forgive me but if you can help? My ESC has 2 inputs from Lipo as linked XT90s. I have a loop in one as I only have 1 Lipo pack. Is it possible to connect 2 Lipos and if so does that give you twice the power or same power but longer run time. Again forgive the silly question. I believe you said perhaps elsewhere that you had 2 lipos side by side in your Rapier to allow you to switch them over for longer run time. Can you also connect them together to get the extra power you mentioned?


Whilst I’m at it, is there a way of telling when you are getting low on cell pd before you end up drifting on the lake? I’ve seen a little digital display option for cell pd but not sure how it’s connected in and if it helps.


Not sure why my underside photo ended up stretched sideways! Google images seems to show the Javelin box pic as yellow and orange in the pattern as mine. Only a couple of versions I could find. Lots more of the Arrow in various guises and I quite like the Kyosho Sunseeker version and it’s larger sibling the “Miami Twice” scratch built that I’ve seen. Search google under images for Lesro Arrow and they all come up.

My new receiver unit has the failsafe cut off you mention. I’m amazed at how compact and light the receivers are now. You could fit about 6 into my old one! Is there a benefit to not having the ESC set to reverse apart from preventing unintended selection?


Stuw


Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 02, 2021, 10:17:27 am
If you take a look at the Rapier thread and scroll down on page one, towards the bottom you will see some early pictures of the inside of the engine bay and the next compartment which has become the battery bay.


The engine bay shows the motor in position and if you look at the bulkhead behind it carefully you will see that I have cut a slot in it that is wide enough for the three motor wires (mine have 6mm gold connectors fitted) to pass through into the battery bay at the same height as the ESC that is mounted on a shelf at the same height on the other side of his bulkhead.


The picture of the battery bay shows the cradle that I have made to hold a pair of LiPo cells side by side with a removable wooden bar to tighten down on top of the cells to stop them bouncing about when the boat is on the water.


If you look carefully you can just see the edge of the small shelf on the bulkhead (between the LiPo bay and engine bay) that I made to hold the ESC.  This allows the wires from the ESC to the motor to have the shortest length and should allow any motor and ESC to connect to each other using the manufacturers supplied ESC and motor wires with no extensions being needed.


With the ESC mounted above and so close to the LiPos there is no need to extend the LiPo wires either!  With an XT90 on the LiPo and the ESC I have a good solid connection with the shortest possible wire length so it keep things very simple.


When I refit and rebuild my s/h Javelin I will copy this installation exactly as in use I have found it works perfectly and has been trouble free.


Using a "Y" lead you can double the capacity or double the voltage depending on whether or not it is wired in parallel or in series. Hobbyking (and others) sell XT90 "Y" leads of both types.   Using a battery tray design like the one shown in my Rapier it makes it easy to run two LiPo cells either linked or individually.


Every ESC that I have ever used that was designed for use with LiPo cells cuts off when the battery drops close to the lower safe limit and stops the motor.  After a few seconds the ESC will re-set and allow the boat to be driven slowly (to prevent dropping below the safe capacity of the LiPo).  This has always given me enough power to get the boat safely back to shore.  Some ESC allow you to adjust when this cut-off cuts in - so you can leave a little more in reserve if you are operating at a longer distance from shore. - check the operating instructions for your ESC ( often available inline if the original document has been lost).


Hope this helps to answer some of your basic operating questions?


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Backerther on February 02, 2021, 02:03:18 pm
Hi Stuw;


So nice for me to have your questions on my setting of motorised Jupiter F-99.
As for the coupling I used,this is so called double disk type coupling normally for use of industrial applications.
This is generally flexible against mis-alignment like eccentricity,deviation of angle and endplay,
in addition,high torque and RPM without twist by which it is said to be suitable for universal purpose.


As for servo-switch,it will function the spare battery when a main battery is fully discharged after long sailing
without noticing such battery conditions.
By this switch,the boat is able to continue the sailing for more time or to return safely to the shore I stand.


Normally my boats are equipped with 2 main batteries or 1 main and 1 spare or 2 main and 1 spare battery
depending upon the boat.
In this sense,the servo-switch will work as  long run switch or emergency switch depending on the
case when the boat stops suddenly on the water due to a main battery exhausted.


The following pics are my Najade that has 2 main and 1 spare battery intending a long run sailing and safe return
without taking care of battery conditions so deeply. :embarrassed:


PS;A digital V meter is also convenient to know battery conditions to estimate the sailing time in advance
    as well as a kitchen timer around the neck.!! Everything is for a secure recovery.!!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 02, 2021, 02:49:07 pm
Bob,


Yes thank you for those points. I’ve now had a look at the Rapier thread as well. Nice layout and paint job. My motor has the wires at the rear end and they won’t let me reach the ESC without it sitting near the shaft in the cramped engine bay so I shall extend them but leave the LIpo wires as simple and short as possible.


Backerther,


I’m interested in seeing the different approaches to the problems. I like all your little rubber band mounts! Might go for a wooden option like Bobs though. Food for thought. Like the power transfer system! Am I right in thinking that once the first battery runs flat, the servo returns to its OFF position (perhaps a channel 3 On/OFF) and operates the micro switch which then gives you power from the next battery?


All this thinking is helping me through the Lockdown and keeping me busy. I’m not old enough to retire yet but work has dropped off for the moment so it’s good to keep the brain cells active and my mind elsewhere.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 02, 2021, 03:47:15 pm
Hi Stuw,

Extending your motor leads is probably the easiest option if you don't have enough wire to connect them to your ESC, and is a better option than extending your battery wires to reach the ESC.

I use good quality 6mm gold plugs and sockets for the connection between my motors and ESC to help prevent current loss.  No joints at all are best of course (hardwire the motor and ESC ), but as few joints as possible with good connectors is the next best option.

Don't forget when you fit your new prop shaft to have as little overhang as possible - get your coupling as close to the end of the prop shaft tube as you can to avoid or reduce vibration.  Move the motor mount towards the end of the prop shaft tube if the gap is too big and chop off any inner shaft that protrudes further than it needs to.

This will also help to lower your motor height in the hull - another advantage!

If you are buying a new shaft assembly, you could check to see if it needs to be as long as it was for your ic engine?  The shorter the shaft that you can fit  - the better!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 02, 2021, 05:11:36 pm
Nice one Bob. Very helpful points. First item will be to see if I can get the old shaft out!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Backerther on February 03, 2021, 01:51:38 am

Backerther,


I’m interested in seeing the different approaches to the problems. I like all your little rubber band mounts! Might go for a wooden option like Bobs though. Food for thought. Like the power transfer system! Am I right in thinking that once the first battery runs flat, the servo returns to its OFF position (perhaps a channel 3 On/OFF) and operates the micro switch which then gives you power from the next battery?


All this thinking is helping me through the Lockdown and keeping me busy. I’m not old enough to retire yet but work has dropped off for the moment so it’s good to keep the brain cells active and my mind elsewhere.


Hi Stuw;


Your understanding about my servo-switch is partly correct.
That is, the switch -ON will start to give power of the second battery to the motor TOGETHER with the first battery.
Therefore,servo will move to switch ON while it is kept off normally.That is because I call it"emergency switch."
So,a very tiny battery will sufficiently do if  used only for a recovery purpose.


 Backerther
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 03, 2021, 10:01:10 am

Hi Stuw;


Your understanding about my servo-switch is partly correct.
That is, the switch -ON will start to give power of the second battery to the motor TOGETHER with the first battery.
Therefore,servo will move to switch ON while it is kept off normally.That is because I call it"emergency switch."
So,a very tiny battery will sufficiently do if  used only for a recovery purpose.


 Backerther


Good idea - especially if your ESC does not cut off soon enough or if you are a long way out from shore when the power cuts off.


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Backerther on February 03, 2021, 11:56:33 am
Hi zooma;


Thank you for your kind comment on my posting.
A tiny spare battery is now used in my 99cm Jupiter F-99 as seen in the pic below,by which she is able to run
5 minutes or so at low speed for returning to me waiting ashore.! :embarrassed:
Safety return is most important point when it come to operating the boats on the comparatively large water
as seen in the following pics where I am enjoying the operation of the RC boats throughout a year including
winter to generate rough waves by the north wind,while summer is tooo hot.
See pics below.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 05, 2021, 05:21:16 pm
Bob (and anyone else),Looking at changing my water pickup on my Javelin. I saw your Raboesch ones from another thread.

How do you secure the silicone tube to these? Just push fit? Also what tube diameter do you go for. Don’t want to get the wrong sizes!

Mine is currently a chunky plastic entry (with quite a large cross section) in line with the prop just behind it. If I locate a new one in the same place, not sure it will reach in far enough as the Javelin has its keel beam here? I could offset on one side through the skin instead?

Supplier recommendations gratefully accepted.


As an aside I carefully removed the cockpit deck area...
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 05, 2021, 06:06:10 pm
Bob (and anyone else),Looking at changing my water pickup on my Javelin. I saw your Raboesch ones from another thread.

How do you secure the silicone tube to these? Just push fit? Also what tube diameter do you go for. Don’t want to get the wrong sizes!

Mine is currently a chunky plastic entry (with quite a large cross section) in line with the prop just behind it. If I locate a new one in the same place, not sure it will reach in far enough as the Javelin has its keel beam here? I could offset on one side through the skin instead?

Supplier recommendations gratefully accepted.



I use coloured silicone fuel tubing.  I buy mine from Rossendale Models as I know the type that they sell has a thick wall and grips tightly onto the inlet and outlet pipes of the pick-up, outlet, and the nipples on the ESC and the nipples on the water cooled mounts and water jackets.

Mounting your brass Raboesch pick-up in the same position as your existing plastic one will be fine - you can use the same hole.

Check the pictures on the Rapier thread (exactly the same hull!) where this tube is used.  The motors shown on the Swordsman thread are also shown with this same tube connecting the cooling nipples.

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 05, 2021, 06:08:04 pm
Thanks Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 06, 2021, 11:27:23 am
You’ve probably seen this old thread but it has some great pictures of the box and construction.


https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29114.0 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29114.0)



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 06, 2021, 11:44:39 am
You’ve probably seen this old thread but it has some great pictures of the box and construction.


https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29114.0 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29114.0)


I had not seen this before Stuw - it is always interesting to see somebody else's build on a model that you are also working on, so thanks for sharing the link.  I enjoyed reading it.


We have a bit more info (and experience) available now about brushless motors that we can add to that good reference build, but even then (2011) the Powerflex coupling was favoured and is still my first choice today.


Dropping a brushless motor into that model would be nice and easy - and no doubt the builder has already done it by now?


Enjoy your weekend,


Bob.



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 06, 2021, 06:40:44 pm
I’m a bit obsessed with everything Javelin at the moment! It’s my focus to keep me from getting stressed with Lockdown 3.0.


I had success today getting the old prop shaft and tube out as you explained. Was worried I’d trash the boat but it came out with careful encouragement. My old shaft was bent!!  Possibly due to my glow plug engine and couplings arrangement not being sufficiently in line and up to the job. I managed to run it in the bath before embarking on the removal and had major vibrations at different rev ranges but lots of power with the DYNM 3915 unit at 1900kv.


Looking forward to getting the Javelin working again.


So removed:


-Prop shaft and tube


-water pickup (am replacing with better looking and more efficient unit as per yours)


-mid deck - wasn’t a hatch on mine but needed to get at the prop shaft and will add a hatch here


Had a think about location of:


- ESC


- lipos (will have 2 7.4v units to either run in series or parallel or alternate) - have plans to mount them in the stern away from the centreline to give a stabilising effect in turns I believe. I read about this somewhere but can’t find it now.


By the way if you would prefer I can stop hijacking your Javelin thread and create a separate one?


Or it might be nice to have different projects here together?


My old glow plug version had about 900g of ballast that I added in the stern to sit her in the water correctly as far as I could tell. Basically some large steel bolts in some plumbers mate! With the LIPos in the stern I’m almost there just need about 300g more.


I’ve played with location of the lipos and the CG location empty and with kit. Can’t recall if the plans mention a CG or the actual waterline?


How do your Javelin and Rapier sit in the water and do you use any ballast?


Sorry for rambling on. Bit excited to get the work underway today...

Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 06, 2021, 08:04:44 pm
It's really encouraging when you have a good day and make some visible progress......and you have had a very good day!

Don't worry about hi-jacking this thread as its all about the Lesro Javelin - and that's what you are working on so you are in the right place!

When I started trying to highlight and focus on the classic old model boat designs from the 1960's (and earlier) I was hoping that it would encourage as many others as possible to get started on making or restoring some of these old classics and to get as many of them as possible back out on the water again to be enjoyed and for all to see and share.

For my money I have to say that many of these classics are still some of the best designed and most practical r/c model boats that you will ever see, many designed by some great model boat designers such as Vic Smeed and Les Rowell who started producing these pioneering designs for the average enthusiast to make at home back in the early 1950's.

They each have a construction that can be easily put together "on the kitchen table" with the minimum of expertise and tools. Every one of these classic designs has proven to be practical and "sea worthy" enough to cope with any situation that they could be reasonably expected to manage .......and often exceed this expectation quite considerably.

Whilst many strive endlessly for exact scale detail, these classic model boat designs gave a more than reasonable representation of a real or imaginary prototype and some of them (such as the Swordsman) can even hold their own when compared with many "true scale" models - and the truth is that when they are out on the water (doing what they were designed to do) they are every bit as good - and sometimes better!

Its a good job you came along really to keep this thread alive, my Javelin progress has been too slow as I have been trying to get the two Swordsman that I am working on up to a stage where I can leave them and wait for the warmer weather to come along when I can start to put some paint on them.

My Rapier is basically the same boat as the Javelin, and following it restoration it has endured its first heavy duty "shake-down" season where it has been used and abused - but mostly enjoyed!

The performance has far exceeded my expectations so you can be sure that once you get your brushless powered Javelin back on the water you are going to have some fun with it!

My Rapier sits nicely in the water using the two LiPo cells as the only ballast and has worked so well that I will copy this again for my Javelin.

I did fit trim tabs, but as the thread explains they were not needed - but they look good, so they can stay!

Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your progress with us!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on February 07, 2021, 08:44:50 am
Hi All
In an old Model Boats Special Mag the Lesro Models shown The Javelin and Rapier as the same size hulls (977 x 273mm).
The Stiletto and Arrow again the same size hulls (654 x 187mm).


So I think only the top is different!!!!


I like the look of the Sportman and Sprite.


Harry
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 10, 2021, 02:44:36 pm
My Javelin is getting further from seaworthy before it gets better but I want to make this a long-lasting model.


In order to get her up and running:


- I have removed the brass rudder post as the glue holding it had cracked (I shall reuse this brass as it seems hard to come by and is in fine condition);


- removed the water cooling output nozzle as it was a nasty plastic botch that I want to replace;


- carefully removed the skin from the fore and aft hatches with craft knife and gentle persuasion with a chisel slid and twisted gently ( I wasn’t happy with the fit over the hull structure at the edges so will replace but try to use the hatch framework as they are in good condition). Inside was the pristine ply with the part numbers stamped on.


- I have ordered all sorts of items that I will need including a fret saw (ashamed to say I haven’t got one!), tack rags, P38, relevant primers and sanding paper 80, 180 and 600 for now. I’ve used some great threads on this forum to work out how to do it and what’s needed.  Can’t justify the space or expense of a scroll saw so will plan to do the work by hand as I’m not building a whole boat, just a few hatches, motor, etc and servo mounts!


- still awaiting packages from CMB and MBB to assist with new propshafts, couplings and ply.


I’ve received my second 7.4v 2S LIPO to balance the boat and provide me with more duration. My ESC allows them to be connected in series which I tried for fun without anything connected to the motor but I reckon nigh on 30,000 rpm is a bit excessive for my Javelin! We shall see.


My old prop is a 50mm red plastic one (X type?) so I’ve ordered another and a smaller one for some options.


Somewhat early but I’ve ordered some vinyl stickers to give me the “909” of the Javelin and a couple of union jacks. Waiting for trimline to get back in stock as most colours seem hard to come by at the moment.


For some reason some of my pictures have been squashed?!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 10, 2021, 04:48:30 pm
Hi All
In an old Model Boats Special Mag the Lesro Models shown The Javelin and Rapier as the same size hulls (977 x 273mm).
The Stiletto and Arrow again the same size hulls (654 x 187mm).


So I think only the top is different!!!!


I like the look of the Sportman and Sprite

Harry 


I like the look of the Sportsman too Harry - but I don't like the new version kit with the "flying bridge"on top  - it spoils the boat for me.

Last year I came across a copy of the plans for the original Sportsman, but as it was only the typical "kit plans" they are not too informative for a new build.....but they could come in handy one day!

The hull on the Rapier/Javelin and the Streaker all have the same hull.  I don't have a Stiletto but it looks like a smaller Rapier and probably does share the same hull with the Arrow.  I have an Arrow kit tucked away for a "rainy day" but I have not been able to find a Stiletto, but if I do it would be nice to have a mini-Rapier to keep in the car !

Stay safe!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 10, 2021, 04:53:07 pm
Stuw,

I think you are well and truly hooked!

Welcome to the Classic Model Boat Restoration Society   %%

It's all downhill from now onwards.

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 10, 2021, 05:26:17 pm
Bob,

Thanks for the welcome. This place is great!

Yes I’ve got the motivation and time to sort it at the moment! And the ability to share progress with like minded people on here!


My wife doesn’t get it but is happy for me to disappear into the garage for a few hours here and there and out of her hair! I like your mantra of a boat that looks good from 20 yards and prefer to have a go on the water but also enjoy the process of messing about with wood and glue.


I hadn’t thought about where to be able to test her out once lockdown eases. Not as many boating lakes as there used to be I believe with restrictions to protect wildlife habitats (fair enough). Found one at a golf club near me but they don’t permit fast boats!


You seem to have most of the UK Rapier fleet in your possession.  {-)

[size=78%]Perhaps I will tackle one at some point if I can get one. First I must see how this Javelin goes![/size]
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on February 10, 2021, 05:55:51 pm
Stuw,

I think you are well and truly hooked!

Welcome to the Classic Model Boat Restoration Society   %%

It's all downhill from now onwards.

Bob.



I'm not in that one but am in FABS -  Fairey Appreciation and Builders Society.


My wife is pretty easy going but does make comments like " You're not building another one are you?", "Where's that one going?" and "When are you going to finish one?"  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 10, 2021, 06:23:55 pm
Stuw,

The Rapier and the Javelin/Streaker share exactly the same hull.

If you ever find another Javelin/Streaker and fancy a Rapier, I took a copy of the cabin sides when I cut them off of mine that you can have.

I used these shapes to cut the new cabin sides from 4mm ply for my Rapier restoration and they look OK and make it easy to convert a Javelin/Streaker into a Rapier.

LesRo told me that they sold a lot more Javelins than they ever sold Rapiers, and that is why there are a lot less of them about.

Not everyone likes the look of the Rapier (including myself when I first saw them) but they are a classic and they do have a fairly unique look that is easily recognisable and seem to be more liked now than it was back in the 1960's!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 10, 2021, 06:29:33 pm
Hi Chris,

There is not much to choose between the two hastily invented model boat making Societies.......and absolutely NO difference whatsoever in the reaction from SHMBO to either of them  %)
Stay safe - and keep making and repairing those Classic model boats  :-))

Bob.


I'm not in that one but am in FABS -  Fairey Appreciation and Builders Society.

My wife is pretty easy going but does make comments like " You're not building another one are you?", "Where's that one going?" and "When are you going to finish one?" 
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 12, 2021, 08:43:34 pm
I took a look at the Javelin tonight and thought I would start by seeing if I could remove the brass water pick-up pipe that was mounted against the propeller and needed to be re-located to allow the propeller to be able to turn.

My reason for looking at the Javelin was to fit some strakes while I had a good fixing method fresh in my mind that had worked well on the Rapier yesterday.

The brass pick-up tube had gone brittle and sheared-off fairly easily.  When I tried to remove the remains of the threaded brass stub there was a cracking sound and a small sheet of filler paste snapped off from the area around the rudder and water pick-up - and it had actually covered over the mounting nuts of both.

With the filler paste now broken away in that immeadiate area, I inserted a new rudder and it is now able to rotate - something that it could not do previously due to the heavy coating of filler paste in that area.

The entire hull is beautifully smooth and I now suspect that it has been entirely covered over with filler paste - and from what I can see from the fractured piece that has come away - it has been applied over the existing shiny blue painted hull, so it will have had no preparation and is unlikely to be secure and if left, it would be liable to fracture off at any time in the future - and that could be embarrassing!

Now I know this I will have to remove all of this filler paste to expose the wood underneath  (and give me something something solid to glue the strakes onto), but I also need to see if anything has been hidden under this coat of filler paste that may also need some attention (what a suspicious mind!).

This will be a messy job that would be better done outdoors, so the Javelin is likely to get put away again until we see some warmer weather.

Before giving up on the boat (for now) I  did shorten the prop shaft by 7/8" as one end of the shaft had very little inner shaft protruding into the engine bay and its rusted threaded section was turning inside the prop shaft bearing! 

By cutting the prop shaft down at the transom end I also moved the prop forwards by 7/8" so that can only be a good thing. I fitted an X50 prop and there is still a lot of clearance under the hull for it to rotate easily if I ever needed to use a prop this big and it should help the performance of the boat.

The inner shaft now enters the engine bay with enough exposed shaft for me to be able to cut off the rusted end of the shaft and still leave enough plain shaft for me to get an M5 collet fitted and to use my preferred M5 Plain shaft PowerFlex coupling.

While the inner shaft was out I rolled it on the machined band saw table surface and it rolled true with no whip.

I reinserted the nylon (!) bearing that was left inside the part of the tube that I had cut off, but I will probably change both bearings at some stage for a pair made from phospher bronze (if I can find a short length to machine down) or I could use some brass bar,  or ask around to see if I can buy a new pair of bearings that are "ready made" so I only have to press them in.

This is looking like it could turn into another major rebuild rather than a minor refit.....how lucky am I ? >:-o
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: madwelshman on February 12, 2021, 09:40:30 pm
Bob, that sounds like a right nightmare to be greeted with.
The plus side is that you have found it at the right time and can resolve the issue before it raises it's head, probably just when you think you are coming to the end.


These things are sent to try us, so keep at it, you'll get there and the end result will be worth it.


Will
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 13, 2021, 09:53:56 am
Before a previous owner coated the hull with filler paste, the bottom had been sanded completely flat so the square angled corners of the rubbing strakes has been removed and the some of the width has been sanded away too.

The lower chine strakes need to be full width and sharp edged to give the best performance and the slight angle change from the bottom skin is important too - and this has been sanded away.

I may start by sanding the remains of the rubbing strakes away so the joint between the side skins and bottom skins are exposed.  The strakes need to be replaced in any case, and this will expose the edge of the skins so I can see how thick the filler paste coating is (at least at the sides).

After that I will attack the bottom skin covering first so I can find out what the filler paste is hiding, make the repair, fit new rubbing strakes, and then I can fit the three bottom strakes on each side of the bottom skin........which is where all this started!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 13, 2021, 10:01:19 am
Definitely sounds like a job for warmer weather! My progress has been slow but steady. Unlike other people’s pictures of high quality craftsmanship, at the moment my work looks shocking perhaps but it’s getting worse before it gets better hopefully!


I’ve removed a lot of what looks like blue silicone sealant that I’d used along some inner hull section seams to prevent water moving from one section to another. Effective but tricky and messy to scrape out.


The forward section had been treated to a lining of heat reflective adhesive foil tape. When the IC motor was the power source I decided to put this is to help protect the hull from heat. It seems to have also protected it from the sticky glow fuel residue as well. It won’t come off in large sections however. After 25+ years it is stubborn. Patience and care with a flat head screwdriver/chisel to scrape it off is yielding results very slowly. 


I am looking at what to do with my strakes. I may keep them as they are and fill them or bite the bullet and remove them and perhaps take up your very kind offer Bob of assisting with preparing the wood.


My construction technique decades ago on my Javelin was to nail the strakes in situ with little brass nails. Not as subtle as just temporarily tacking them as you once did Bob!


I also used these to fix the bulkheads to the skin or vice versa. Nice and solid but the nail heads show up through the paint. Perhaps if I sanded the heads that would be enough? Should these nails stay in situ? If necessary i was going seal all bulkhead lower edges with epoxy putty to make them more watertight and separate in case of water ingress. My rear cabin bulkhead might be delaminating around a hole made to allow wires to pass through.


I started to remove lots of nails from the strakes as they now look so obvious. As they penetrated through the skin I can push them back out from inside and retrieve them. I now have lots of 1mm or less holes to seal/fill.


Questions:


1. Can I use aliphatic wood glue to fill these initially or is P38 ok/ better?


2. I plan to strip the hull back to the ply before repainting etc. Would anyone just primer paint onto this or would you put something else first eg varnish?


My boat doesn’t have any Glassfibre coating on it as I’ve read many do. I don’t want to go down this route as the Javelin didn’t need it in my opinion. Or am I wrong? I prefer to keep my Javelin as conventional and old school in build techniques as possible. Apart from hitec glues, fillers and paints and electronics of course!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 13, 2021, 10:08:00 am
Before a previous owner coated the hull with filler paste, the bottom had been sanded completely flat so the square angled corners of the rubbing strakes has been removed and the some of the width has been sanded away too.

The lower chine strakes need to be full width and sharp edged to give the best performance and the slight angle change from the bottom skin is important too - and this has been sanded away.

I may start by sanding the remains of the rubbing strakes away so the joint between the side skins and bottom skins are exposed.  The strakes need to be replaced in any case, and this will expose the edge of the skins so I can see how thick the filler paste coating is (at least at the sides).

After that I will attack the bottom skin covering first so I can find out what the filler paste is hiding, make the repair, fit new rubbing strakes, and then I can fit the three bottom strakes on each side of the bottom skin........which is where all this started!


Wow that’s a lot of work to come! Someone gone mad with an orbital sander perhaps! You will be busy... I wonder if yours may have had strakes that have also been sanded away at the same time?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on February 13, 2021, 10:11:39 am
BEWARE of the silicone if in a critical area! Sometimes it comes off clean without leaving a film but sometimes it will leave some of the solvent in the wood and it can be almost impossible to stick anything on to it.
Good LuckTony
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 13, 2021, 10:16:20 am
Thanks Tony! Oops. Fingers crossed it’s just an area for paint. See what happens....
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 13, 2021, 10:25:23 am

I am looking at what to do with my strakes. I may keep them as they are and fill them or bite the bullet and remove them and perhaps take up your very kind offer Bob of assisting with preparing the wood.

My construction technique decades ago on my Javelin was to nail the strakes in situ with little brass nails. Not as subtle as just temporarily tacking them as you once did Bob!


Questions:


1. Can I use aliphatic wood glue to fill these initially or is P38 ok/ better?


2. I plan to strip the hull back to the ply before repainting etc. Would anyone just primer paint onto this or would you put something else first eg varnish?


My boat doesn’t have any Glassfibre coating on it as I’ve read many do. I don’t want to go down this route as the Javelin didn’t need it in my opinion. Or am I wrong? I prefer to keep my Javelin as conventional and old school in build techniques as possible. Apart from hitec glues, fillers and paints and electronics of course!




Hi Stuw,

When I use brass nails these days I tend to drive them in part way, and then chop the head off before driving them down flush to the surface as this stops the heads showing through at a later date but keeps the mechanical fix in place.

Your questions:

1.  I would use P38 to fill those small nail holes.

2.  If you strip the hull right back to bare wood you can start again with a first coat of wood primer if it needs it, if not then undercoat and sand between coats until the surface is smooth and ready for the top coat.

Old school is good!  You are right - classic boats never had the "luxury" of cloth coatings etc and I prefer to restore them using traditional finishing methods .ie wood primer, as many under coats as it needs to give a smooth surface (sanding between coats) ready for the final colour top coat.

Your boat has survived 25 years without having a cloth coating and was run with a vibrating messy glow engine (I love my glow engines - but they are messy).

Your new electric motor will give a smooth power delivery and it will be clean, so your hull will have a little less stress to cope with and should see another 25 years or more with a conventional finish that can be replaced as often as you like (or fancy a colour change).

The inside of the hull is another matter.  I am more than happy to use glass fibre and matting to reinforce and armour any joints that are visible and to reinforce the hull.  I have recently tried epoxy for this same job - but to be honest, if I can do the job outside to stop the fumes filling my shed I prefer to use glass fibre as it will cure in almost any temperature and I find it works better for me.

Enjoy your weekend!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 13, 2021, 10:32:32 am
Brilliant. Thanks Bob. Hadn’t thought of chopping off the nail heads! Thanks for your advice. Don’t want to find out the hard way and want to do it as well as I possibly can with my skill set.


Yep messy and vibrating IC somewhat different to brushless power!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on February 13, 2021, 11:24:58 am
Blooming heck, I think I'll stick with new builds!

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 13, 2021, 11:53:57 am
Blooming heck, I think I'll stick with new builds!

Chris


Very wise Chris.


.....but one day, you may come across a sad looking boat that grabs your attention and you end up rescuing it and bringing it back to life.

If/when you do, you will experience the joy (?) of restoring something that you never built, and it may not have been put together in the way that you would have done it.

Sometimes you will be surprised at how badly it was thrown together, and sometimes you can see that it was beautifully built but had suffered another owner since who abused it and wrecked it.

Sometimes the boats will just have been well used and enjoyed over a number of years but were then discarded and forgotten about for many years until rediscovered in a loft,  or a house clearance had it put on eBay to be disposed of.

It you do take on a restoration, you will (by necessity) develop a whole new set of different skills and ways of working or "making good" (and problem solving), and they will all bring a sense of satisfaction that is different to the pride that you may experience with a carefully assembled new build.

Beware............restoring and rescuing classic old model boats can become addictive.............. O0
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 13, 2021, 02:41:23 pm
I thought it would be easier to rejuvenate my old boat than build a new one. In some ways it is but as you say it involves sometimes a different set of techniques and approach. At least in my case I shouldn’t find any hidden gems below the paintwork?!


I am now set on keeping the shape of my Javelin as conventional and to plan as possible. If all goes well I may try to get hold of an old Rapier/Javelin to mess about with somewhat.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 13, 2021, 03:21:40 pm
I thought it would be easier to rejuvenate my old boat than build a new one. In some ways it is but as you say it involves sometimes a different set of techniques and approach. At least in my case I shouldn’t find any hidden gems below the paintwork?!


I am now set on keeping the shape of my Javelin as conventional and to plan as possible. If all goes well I may try to get hold of an old Rapier/Javelin to mess about with somewhat.


Good News - well done Stuw!

I did mention earlier that I thought you were hooked..... and you will not go too far wrong if you can find a Rapier or another Javelin/Streaker to restore.

They are good solid designs that perform far better than they should - especially the Rapier.  Seeing an old cabin cruiser going fast enough to worry the "plastic fantastic" brigade always makes me smile.

The Javelin/Streaker look fast.....and they are!

Pretty impressive for Classic 1960's designs I would say  :-))

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on February 14, 2021, 03:13:22 pm
You get what you get!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 17, 2021, 11:38:48 am
Slow and steady work continues. My new propshaft and powerflex coupling arrived. Including the X50 props which look rather menacing! I must have had an S50? I also purchased an X40 which I shall start with.


Playing with motor location as low as possible and about a 10 degree angle from horizontal seems typical?


Decided to remove the old ic motor mount which was about 150g of 6.5mm ply. It was in the way and allowed me to inspect the skin and keel underneath. The red highlighted area in photo 3 shows where glowfuel has soaked on/in (even though wood was varnished). It seems sturdy just need to remove the stickiness before able to bond to it I imagine?


I also removed the aft portion of the motor mount that was a bracing rib? The ply was very sticky and damaged. I will create a couple of new ones to form part of my new motor mount base.


Ive been looking at using Z poxy finishing resin to perhaps coat over this area to seal and be able to bond to it?


Now the chicken or egg scenario. Do I fix the propshaft first then sort the motor mount or vice versa? Does it matter as long as I keep the rigid coupling in place. Decisions, decisions!


Still slowly removing the old sticky foil tape and cleaning up. I plan to fill the square hole in the bulkhead as well to give more rigidity back to it. It was used to place my glowfuel tank into the centre section as the cockpit roof wasn’t removable. It will be soon.


Jobs to do:


- Prep hull outside and inside for painting
- Fabricate motor mount base, servo and ESC mounts
- Bond rudder post, water scoop and propshaft and motor in
- create new forward, aft and mid hatches

Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 17, 2021, 11:58:29 am
Nice progress Stuw.


Definitely get the prop shaft fitted in the hull first before attempting to fit the motor and mount.


Once the shaft is in place and set solid you can align everything with it.


I rough-up the outside areas of the shaft tube where it passes thorough the hull and bulkhead and then use slow setting epoxy to bond it into place.


Cover these areas with masking tape to keep the epoxy in place as it cures - it may seem fairly solid but it does move a little as it sets and you want to keep it around the shaft and not have it dripping away from the joint.


Slow setting epoxy is much better than the fast stuff as it gives you time to work and is also durable when it has set.  I use slow setting Araldite - it used to be called 24hour Araldite - I will check the name for you if you like - but as far as I know Araldite only make one slow setting type.


Other makes of epoxy are available, but 24 hour Araldite has never let me down on my boats or repairs made to rifle stocks and when assembling anatomical pistol grips - its really good stuff!


Making sure that you have good clearance for an X50 prop is a good idea.


My guess is that you may find a S50 or an X45 prop will work well with your motor in the Javelin hull if you are running it on 2 cells and if/when you use 3 cells  you may need to drop it a size to an S45 or an X40 to get the best result and allow the motor to spin freely without over-heating.


You won't know for sure until you get the boat in the water and running, but I use this size range on my Rapier (same hull) so you are in with aa chance.


Bob.





Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 17, 2021, 03:07:46 pm
Thanks Bob. I’ve got some Devcon 2 ton epoxy that sets in 30 mins and cures in about 12 apparently?


Also what do you reckon for my slightly greasy ply skin on the inside. Will epoxy bond to this for my motor mount or should I run some Z poxy finishing resin over the engine bay?


Thanks for your helpful input.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: derekwarner on February 17, 2021, 03:57:18 pm
If the hull ply surface you indicate in RED rectangles is fuel/oil-soaked, the Pacer Technologies Z-Poxy people suggest not to attempt to lay/pour their product  over such surfaces


It's all about the integrity of the bond........after you lay it, you cannot see the result......Devon will bond to the Z-Poxy, however the bond to the parent material would always be questionable


Now is the time to decide.......one option is to cut out the questionable ply sections.......could be the best long term solution

Derek
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 17, 2021, 05:09:11 pm
Thanks Bob. I’ve got some Devcon 2 ton epoxy that sets in 30 mins and cures in about 12 apparently?


Also what do you reckon for my slightly greasy ply skin on the inside. Will epoxy bond to this for my motor mount or should I run some Z poxy finishing resin over the engine bay?


Thanks for your helpful input.


Hi Stuw,

No epoxy (or poxy) of any type is going to adhere onto oily wood.

Even if the "bond" looks OK at the time,  the oil will migrate (push up through the wood) and get in-between the surface of the wood and the mating surface of the glue film and this will slowly but surely erode the bond until the motor mount is left "floating"on top .

We used to call this process "plasticiser migration".

Chopping out the sections of wood is also going to cause you some work so there are a couple of things you could try first..

Washing out the area with a strong detergent or degreasant will help. The sticky glue residue from your protective silver tape also needs removing completely with lighter fluid etc.

After you have de-greased the surface, and you replace the braces from your original motor mounts, try cutting them in thick plywood ( 1/2" or even 3/4").

Position them accurately inside your hull and draw around them before removing them and drawing the centre line of them onto the inside of the bottom skin.

Once you have the two centre lines marked you can check to see the position of your strakes and drill though the ply skin (making sure you miss them!). Using wide brass (or stainless) counter-sunk head screws you can insert them from underneath to supplement your potentially weak bond with a mechanical fix.   If the screws are too long - don't worry - grind them off until they are "flush" after the adhesive  (or glass fibre) has dried.

As these will never be removed you can use P38 to cover the heads over and when sanded they should become invisible. 

This "mechanical fixing" is to supplement the epoxy adhesive - not to replace it, so epoxy the engine mounting plate braces onto the bottom skin in the normal way. Use plenty of epoxy and allow it to form a fillet all around the engine mount braces - or use glass fibre resin and chopped fibre to bed them in with (P40).

When everything
is fitted in place you may also be able to screw through the motor mounting plate from the top into the keel in one or two places to make the mounting to the hull as solid and long lasting as possible.


This should never move for the life of the boat!


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 17, 2021, 06:18:49 pm
If the hull ply surface you indicate in RED rectangles is fuel/oil-soaked, the Pacer Technologies Z-Poxy people suggest not to attempt to lay/pour their product  over such surfaces


It's all about the integrity of the bond........after you lay it, you cannot see the result......Devon will bond to the Z-Poxy, however the bond to the parent material would always be questionable


Now is the time to decide.......one option is to cut out the questionable ply sections.......could be the best long term solution

Derek


Thanks Derek. I thought it could be dodgy.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 17, 2021, 06:30:08 pm
Bob,


I shall give that a go. My new bracing spans the width of the hull from chine to chine over the keel. There will be one at each end of the motor mount plate. My base under the motor mount will also be wider and reach the skin at about 11cm width.


I have modelled them in cardboard to work out profiles but planned to use at least 6.5mm ply. I shall beef them up as you suggest. They will be bonded across better condition wood away from the keel. Will back up with screws. I’m avoiding cutting out the old skin at this stage. It would be the best solution but I’m not that brave yet!


Photo of card mock-up (only 1 mm card but will be thicker ply of course!)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 19, 2021, 11:59:28 am
Anyone interested in reading this LesRo Javelin thread may like to know that there is a build review of the LesRo Javelin kit featured in the December 1991 Marine Modelling.


There is also a nice picture of the beautifully finished review model too.


This is the only review of the LesRo Javelin that I have seen........but there could be others............?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 19, 2021, 01:54:32 pm
Here is a link mentioning the Javelin article in the info for Dec 91


https://magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/marine-modelling-magazine-december-1991-issue.html (https://magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/marine-modelling-magazine-december-1991-issue.html)

(Some mention of the Lesro Arrow in May 2002 as well)


https://magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/marine-modelling-magazine-may_02_large.jpg.html (https://magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/marine-modelling-magazine-may_02_large.jpg.html)



Having read your sister thread on the Rapier and seen your improved superstructure, am I alone in feeling the Javelin forward raised structure in front of the cockpit seems to be rather lacking? Is it supposed to be a cabin of sorts (like a basic version of a Fairey Huntsman) or just raised to give the boat a little shape? The Arrow forward deck flush gives more of a cigarette style powerboat feel.


I want to retain the classic Javelin design for mine but wasn’t sure whether to simulate some windows or hatches on the forward area? I’ve trawled Google images for inspiration but end up wanting to chop the structure down to be flush apart from a cockpit and rear engine bay vent hatch as is.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 19, 2021, 02:19:48 pm
I am looking for a copy of that from Dec 1991 “Marine Modelling International” though from what I’ve retrieved from a back issue info search?


(Some mention of the Lesro Arrow in May 2002 as well)


Having read your sister thread on the Rapier and seen your improved superstructure, am I alone in feeling the Javelin forward raised structure in front of the cockpit seems to be rather lacking? Is it supposed to be a cabin of sorts (like a basic version of a Fairey Huntsman) or just raised to give the boat a little shape? The Arrow forward deck flush gives more of a cigarette style powerboat feel.


I want to retain the classic Javelin design for mine but wasn’t sure whether to simulate some windows or hatches on the forward area? I’ve trawled Google images for inspiration but end up wanting to chop the structure down to be flush apart from a cockpit and rear engine bay vent hatch as is.


They say that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" Stuw.

I really disliked the "gormless" looking wheelhouse windows of the Rapier and changed them to a shape that I preferred (although I realise that this may not be anybody else's "cup of tea") and when I loosely positioned the window frames back on my "new to me" Rapier 2  project (to show what they would have looked like before they got snapped off in the post) - my wife said "that looks nice"  !

Seeing the surprised look on my face she turned and looked at my restored Rapier 1 that was alongside it on the bench for comparison and then said.."but I like that one too" so I will never know for sure, but I think she may have preferred the original cabin front!

Yesterday I drew around the side of a Rapier cabin onto the back of a couple of taped together cereal packets.  I had previously mentioned the possibility of adding a cabin to my Javelin and so I was just experimenting to see if I could come up with a rather more up to date shape for a possible change.

My Javelin needs a lot of work (and I don't know what I will find hiding under all that filler paste yet) but if there is more boat than filler paste I may yet be tempted to covert it to a "Super Rapier".

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 20, 2021, 06:00:48 am
Whilst I was thinking of chopping the structure off, you’re coming up with an alternative cabin! Would be good to see your ideas...


I’m awaiting a timber delivery from SLEC for my thicker engine mount ply supports.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 20, 2021, 01:23:57 pm
Whilst I was thinking of chopping the structure off, you’re coming up with an alternative cabin! Would be good to see your ideas...


I’m awaiting a timber delivery from SLEC for my thicker engine mount ply supports.


Hi Stuw,

I drew around one of the cabin sides from the unmade Rapier kit (onto the back of the finest quality cereal packet) to get some idea about the size and bulkhead positions and the sketched out a new design.

Masking tape was employed to make a piece of card long enough to draw a full size cabin side onto so I will have a template ready to draw around and cut new sides from 4mm plywood...assuming I came up with something I liked the look of.

Whilst I wanted to retain the "wheelhouse" style of the classic Rapier layout, I also wanted to streamline it and make it look a little more up to date.

After 30 minutes or so of sketching I have come up with something that I like the look of and I think I will have a go at it and see how it works-out, but to keep the new design pure, the existing bulkheads are in the wrong place.

I will find a way to accommodate the bulkheads  where they are (as this is after-all only a conversion for an existing hull) but if the deign looks really good I may end-up making an all new model that is based on this successful LesRo pointed 39" hull shape.

Once I have cut the cabin side out the design will evolve as I progress but it will include a re-styled front for the lower cabin and wheelhouse and will retain the rear cabin within the new outline.

I hope this will be a "sharp-edge" design as all the classic model boats that I like seem to have names like Swordsman/Rapier etc, so I am going to call this design "The Blade". 

If it works out OK I will start a build thread of the same name and keep a photo-log of the progress from a cereal packet sketch to a finished model.

Apart from including some over-sized home made strakes, the hull shape is not likely to change very much as I am so impressed with the performance of the Rapier I wouldn't want to change anything significant about it.......although I may re-style the transom depending on how things unfold.

If it is a disaster then I will start again as I really like the Rapier but I would like to imagine how a boat-builder would have evolved the concept (if it were a real full sized boat) .........and graft it onto my Javelin - which is where this idea was initially conceived.

Enjoy your weekend!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 20, 2021, 01:57:05 pm
Look forward to the Blade thread! Out of interest is your Javelin hull damaged at all by glow fuel or was it always electric perhaps?


I thought your Rapier paint scheme early on with white and black only was striking!


Have a good one,


Stu
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 20, 2021, 02:08:12 pm
Look forward to the Blade thread! Out of interest is your Javelin hull damaged at all by glow fuel or was it always electric perhaps?


I thought your Rapier paint scheme early on with white and black only was striking!


Have a good one,


Stu


My Javelin was originally glow engine powered - the welded steel motor mount was still in it when I bought it!

I am going to chop out a couple of cabin sides for The Blade so I can see if I can accommodate the Rapier kit bulkhead positions.

If not I will have to have a re-think (and a re-style).

The Blade (if all goes well) will have a similar black and white paint scheme to the "undercoat scheme" I used on the Rapier during the trial runs.

Enjoy your weekend,

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on February 20, 2021, 02:48:20 pm
New Zooma Gin Palace?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 20, 2021, 09:47:49 pm


Not a gin palace Tony - just an updated Rapier!

......but white and chrome.......really? O0

I may have to make some changes yet to accommodate where the Rapier cab sides bend inwards (just after bulkhead B3) at the base of the wheelhouse front screens. 

My design will work better with straight cab sides so I will have to see if the hull shape can accommodate this

This afternoon I cut a pair of 4mm sides on the bandsaw (no windows yet).  This gives me some 3D shapes to work with so I can see if the idea will work or not.

Time will tell................

Stay safe,

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 21, 2021, 09:44:13 am
Happy Sunday (every day feels like one a time the moment!) all,


Out of interest, my Javelin forward cabin sides are curved slightly (not warped though, looks like they were made like this). Whether I put them together incorrectly I don’t know.


The forward hatch roof sides were a straight line so it never fitted completely in the mid section. I see others mention having to reshape the hatch roof.


Tried to show the curve in the photo....but this forum has squashed the picture to exaggerate it!


Having looked back at yours I’ve spotted what looks like the same phenomenon on your Javelin Bob as mine. Rear hatch cover not quite covering sides behind cockpit. It might not matter but it slightly bugs me that the hatch didn’t look as flush as it could!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 21, 2021, 10:35:38 am
Hi Stuw,

If you are making new hatch covers it is easy to make the new ones fit better.

The cab sides are not straight - as the 4mm sides bend inwards towards the bows they curve slightly.

When you fit the new ply skins to cover the hatch top,  leave them wider than the sides of the boat until after they are completely dried.

With the new hatch fitted in place, run a sharp pencil against the cab sides and along the underside of the hatch skins whilst keeping it pressed down on the cabin.

The pencil line on the underside of the new hatch skin will accurately show the curved outside shape of the cabin sides drawn on the underside of the ply skin covering.

Sand back to this pencil line (checking the fit often to make sure everything is going OK) until the hatch cover is only slightly wider than the cabin sides.

The hatch top can now be fitted back onto the boat and sanded absolutely flush with the cab sides by sanding it and the cab sides together to become the perfect match.

.....or at least - thats how I would do it - if I wasn't making a new cab shape instead!

Enjoy your Sunday!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on February 21, 2021, 11:31:01 am
Hi All
I only 2mm for my cabin sides and 4mm for the frames.


The hull frames 4mm and 8mm for the keel.
Stringers 4mm square.


Harry

Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 23, 2021, 08:39:25 pm
I have been trying to find something to give a bit more use to the rough side of my Perma-Grit sanding blocks as I find lots of uses for the smooth side, but not too much for the course side.

Whilst I am waiting for the M5 prop shaft to arrive from MBB for Rapier 2, my eyes again found the Javelin still on the shelf waiting for some better weather so that I could attack the filler paste covered hull  - firstly to find our what "nasties" may be hidden underneath all that filler, and secondly to take it back to raw wood so I can fit some strakes to the underside.

I also want to replace the side strakes as they are far too small, and the lower ones have been sanded flat to the hull bottom and have therefore lost their function, and the deck edge rubbing strips are not only too small - but they have been totally sanded away in places.

Solution - attack the hull with the course side of the Perma-Grip sanding blocks as it should make a lot less mess than the power sander and so I can do it in my workshop(shed) without having to wait for better weather.

The first thing I did was to sand away the lower side strakes so that I could see just how thick the filler paste coating had been laid-on as I would be able to see a cross section of it as the edges become visible once they had been removed.

The rough side of the Perma-Grit sanding black destroyed the side strakes chewing away the hardwood with little effort and exposing the depth of the filler paste coating.  This coating did not look to be too thick so I decided to remove it with the sanding block.

The sanding block just slid across the surface of the filler paste, so I flipped it over and used the coarse side again......and this also just slid across the top of the surface.  I attacked the surface again with some serious welly - and this time it reluctantly began to abrade - slightly!

Four hours later (!) I had begun to make an impression - this is seriously tough stuff - what a shame I have to remove it.  At this stage my hands were getting really painful as "Arthur" decided to remind me of his presence so I had to take a rest from sanding.

By way of a change, I cut the prop shaft in front of the large P bracket and ripped the bracket out of the hull to expose the sawn-off end of the prop shaft.  The well-proven "percussion" method of removing the prop shaft was employed (I hit it with a hammer) and then the brass rudder tube was
chiselled away from its covering of filler past (on the underside) and its much heavier covering of clear resin on the inside of the hull that had been used to embed it.

This now left the underside of the hull clear to be "roughed" back down to shape and for the glass fibre paste to be fully sanded to reveal the ply hull bottom skin (and whatever else may be lurking underneath!).

After a rest and something to eat I will go back out to the workshop(shed) later tonight and see if I can at least remove all of the paste from the bottom surface so I can attack the sides tomorrow.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 23, 2021, 09:12:43 pm
Happy sanding Bob! What about hammer and chisel to the filler? I’m still waiting for my wood to arrive...


Still deciding on where/how to mount ESC, rudder servo and batteries. Only fixed parameter is the motor location!



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on February 23, 2021, 10:31:54 pm
Hi Bob

I use the coarse side of my blocks quite a lot, mainly for sanding the edges of ply, the keel and chine stringers and for balsa blocks before I use the fine side.

That filler is a real pain though they made a good job of applying it and getting a smooth finish! It must weigh a bit as well?

It will be good to get it off though and see what it covers and then prepare and finish the hull in the more usual way!

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 23, 2021, 10:47:30 pm
Happy sanding Bob! What about hammer and chisel to the filler? I’m still waiting for my wood to arrive...


Still deciding on where/how to mount ESC, rudder servo and batteries. Only fixed parameter is the motor location!


Hi Stuw,

I chopped out the false floor that probably had the fuel tank on it so that I can make and fit another twin LiPo tray the same as I have on Rapier 1 and that I have also made for Rapier 2.  It works really well in practice and so I will stay with it.

I have also made another ESC tray and a servo mount - again both are copies of the ones used on Rapier 1.  The steering servo will be mounted in exactly the same place, but the Javelin body survived the butchery tonight so it may just stay as a Javelin and I will use my "Super Rapier" body design on a new build so I can change the bulkhead shapes and positions as I build everything up onto the keel.

Good luck with your r/c and LiPo positioning.  I may move my ESC into the engine bay due to the low floor of the Javelin cockpit but I will have to extend the power leads that run to the LiPo's.  I will give it "a good coat of looking at" as I fit the strakes  - I will have plenty of time to think about it and try some ideas out.

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 23, 2021, 11:01:12 pm
Hi Bob

I use the coarse side of my blocks quite a lot, mainly for sanding the edges of ply, the keel and chine stringers and for balsa blocks before I use the fine side.

That filler is a real pain though they made a good job of applying it and getting a smooth finish! It must weigh a bit as well?

It will be good to get it off though and see what it covers and then prepare and finish the hull in the more usual way!

Chris


Hi Chris,

The filler was really well applied (professionally I suspect in a car bodywork ?) and it was as smooth as glass - a perfect finish - but it was also as hard as glass too, and getting the sander to actually "bite" into the surface took a serious amount effort and time!

I have finally got the bottom coating removed completely and it has not revealed any serious problems, so I guess it was only applied to give the hull the "perfect finish".........that I have now destroyed!

With the glass fibre jacket removed and the 1/2" thick false cockpit floor chopped out the hull is noticeably lighter in weight - as you suspected.

Hopefully I can start to fit some strakes tomorrow - I have cut enough ready to do the job with.  I would like to use super-glue for this - but some suggest that it is not good enough and that it will fail when it gets wet!  I think I am going to go for it anyway  - but keep an eye on it!

Bob.

Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 24, 2021, 07:59:16 am
You’ve been busy! Part of my dilemma in positioning the ESC is as you suggest. The cockpit access  is a bit limited once the cockpit screen is fixed in place versus the Rapier as far as I can tell. Hence toying with ESC in with rudder servo or further forward with motor. I had a look online at those Perma-Grit blocks - not cheap but last well?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 24, 2021, 10:34:33 am
You’ve been busy! Part of my dilemma in positioning the ESC is as you suggest. The cockpit access  is a bit limited once the cockpit screen is fixed in place versus the Rapier as far as I can tell. Hence toying with ESC in with rudder servo or further forward with motor. I had a look online at those Perma-Grit blocks - not cheap but last well?


My son bought me a longer size Perma-Grit sanding block for my birthday last year and a half-round one for Christmas this year - and I bought one for myself last year and one this year too, so I have a complete set of them built up over the last 18 months or so.


I probably use the longer one with the chisel shaped end the most.


They have lasted OK but they have a small amount of localised "clogging" that would benefit from cleaning. They say to use "paint cleaner".  I am not sure what they mean as they don't say paint "stripper" so I will try washing them with white spirit and a brush first and see how that works.


Putting the ESC in the rear compartment with the steering servo is not a bad idea - I will take a look at that as there is plenty of spare space in there and as the ESC does not weigh much it won't make a lot of difference to the balance.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 24, 2021, 11:41:23 am
This is a possible position. Not so keen to have to chop into bulkheads having done it! The Lipo leads are quite chunky. Lots of holes left over from my IC throttle control routes and initial ic exhaust running to aft and exit from transom (subsequently changed to hole in forward cabin side for exhaust to find it’d way out!


I will try to fill with appropriate ply thicknesses as you’ve done on your Rapier to tidy it up.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 24, 2021, 11:45:52 am
That looks good Stuw - and it keeps the thick wires to the LiPos as short as possible  :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on February 24, 2021, 02:46:43 pm
Stu

Like Bob I have some of the blocks, long, short and half-round and a set of files. They are expensive but they are invaluable and make some tasks easier than they would otherwise be, like profiling the keel and stringers prior to skinning and filing out the channel for the prop shaft. I've resisted buying any of the other tools though! Well so far!

For unclogging I use a specific wire brush from Axminster tools. They used to do a liquid for the job but only do a large size of another type now which is too expensive for what I'd use.

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 24, 2021, 04:20:50 pm
Stu

Like Bob I have some of the blocks, long, short and half-round and a set of files. They are expensive but they are invaluable and make some tasks easier than they would otherwise be, like profiling the keel and stringers prior to skinning and filing out the channel for the prop shaft. I've resisted buying any of the other tools though! Well so far!

For unclogging I use a specific wire brush from Axminster tools. They used to do a liquid for the job but only do a large size of another type now which is too expensive for what I'd use.

Chris


Hi Chris,

I have tried a wire brush to un-clog my Perma-Grit tools, but some of the clogging (probably from glass fibre and epoxies and paint etc) is proving harder to shift and I don't want to get too heavy handed with the wire brush for fear of blunting the abrasive surface.

I have yet to try any sort of liquid so maybe when I have finished fitting the strakes to my Javelin today I will start by testing one with a soak in white spirit followed by a wire brush and see if that can shift it.

I am hoping that super-glue will hold my strakes on OK - it is certainly much faster than using PVA (with lots of brass nails) - I am not using any nails at all with this method and I just hold a small section in place, dab on some super glue and move along to the next bit making the curvatures as I go!

When the length is fitted in place I then run super-glue along the entire length on both sides.

Very fast and very simple - I just hope it proves to be durable!

Stay safe,

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on February 24, 2021, 06:30:09 pm
The constructive dismissal of half a Javelin.....
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 24, 2021, 07:30:43 pm
Thanks for putting the pictures up for me Tony.

Today all of the new strakes and lower spray rails have been fitted and I have removed the plug of filler paste that was holding the large "P" bracket in place and I am hoping to drift-in a block of wood that I can Araldite into place to plug the gap. This large oblong hole went completely through the hull so I am preparing the "letter box" shape ready to plug it.

I will need to fill the water pick-up and the rudder location holes as I will be re-positioning them a little further forward as this revised layout has worked so well for me on Rapier1. The propeller/pick-up/rudder will not be quite so far forwards as it is on Rapier1 but they will be further away from the transom than the LesRo kit plans measurements.

I gave Steve a call at MBB today and he was just about to start making my 12" M5 prop shaft for Rapier2 and he was happy to make another one at the same time for use in this Javelin, so hopefully I can start to fill the other large hole in the hull with a prop shaft, and drill some new ones to take the rudder and water pick-up very soon to keep the momentum going.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on February 25, 2021, 09:45:53 am
The start of the resurgence................
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 25, 2021, 10:40:33 am
What a transformation! My wood should arrive today so that I can start on the beefed up motor mount over the weekend perhaps. Working out mounts for servo and ESC I’m looking to incorporate blue anodized aluminum removable mounts instead of ply constructions. Hopefully it will come together and look and work effectively.


I’m going for a twin arm connection to rudder servo for push and pull to avoid issues if pushrod bends on the push. I notice most seem ok with just single link though?

]I’ve also gone for a higher torque servo as I’d figured the forces on the rudder at speed could exceed the regular servo capabilities but perhaps I’ve gone OTT! :o
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 25, 2021, 11:19:38 am
What a transformation! My wood should arrive today so that I can start on the beefed up motor mount over the weekend perhaps. Working out mounts for servo and ESC I’m looking to incorporate blue anodized aluminum removable mounts instead of ply constructions. Hopefully it will come together and look and work effectively.


I’m going for a twin arm connection to rudder servo for push and pull to avoid issues if pushrod bends on the push. I notice most seem ok with just single link though?

]I’ve also gone for a higher torque servo as I’d figured the forces on the rudder at speed could exceed the regular servo capabilities but perhaps I’ve gone OTT! :o


Thanks Stuw,

Last night I plugged the letter-box type slot that was left when the large P bracket was pulled out and cut some dowel to plug the holes left by the rudder and the water pick-up scoop.  The hardwood plugs have all been made a "force fit" and tapped in with a hammer after coating with 24hr Araldite.  When the epoxy has dried I will saw off and sand the plugs back to give a smooth finish to the underside of the hull.

I use a 3mm push-rod with an anodised alloy captive ball joint to connect the servo to the tiller arm.  These red anodised rod ends can be found on the Bay  and they give a really trick looking linkage - but I have not seen them in blue.  3mm threaded push rods can also be bought from the same source.

A bent 90 degree end passes through the alloy servo arm with a 3mm collet underneath to hold it it place - on some fast boats (like the Blackjack 29 I have just listed on the Bay) I go one stop further and fit the FG throttle override device to give fast precise adjustment too!

You could use an alloy ball joint on both ends of the rod if you use 3mm threaded studding (or cut a 3mm thread on the end as required) to look super-trick!

The 3mm push rod is rock solid, so if that should ever bend the rest of the hull and/or rudder must have taken a massive hit!

I also fit fast high-torque metal geared servos for peace of mind as much as enjoying the fast steering response. OTT maybe - but nice  :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: mbm999 on February 25, 2021, 12:04:55 pm
I noticed this on the permagrit website.
Disclaimer: I haven't tried it!

https://www.permagrit.com/cleaningkit/

Cheers,
Mark
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 25, 2021, 12:11:50 pm
I noticed this on the permagrit website.
Disclaimer: I haven't tried it!

https://www.permagrit.com/cleaningkit/ (https://www.permagrit.com/cleaningkit/)

Cheers,
Mark


Thanks Mark,

The Pukka Paint Strippa on the official site......£10.20 with vat and includes a small wire brush.

Stay safe,

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on February 25, 2021, 09:46:14 pm
Thanks for the link Mark. As well as my PermaGrit blocks some of my other normal steel files are a bit clogged (never used to happen before I started building model boats!) and need a clean. Trouble is I've been looking at the PermaGrit needle files and rotary tools now!

Those push-rods and connectors that you use sound nice Bob. I'll have to get one for the Swordsman and maybe the Huntsman!

Stu - some folks specify push/pull as good practice especially if rudder loads are high e.g. a big fast boat or if the rods are long but for lower loads and shorter rods a single rod is perfectly fine. I think I read somewhere that single rods can lead to more wear of the servo as one part is loaded more than the other but this can take a long time with the amount that most models are used and servos are cheap enough anyway and if you use good quality it's unlikely to be a problem really.

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 25, 2021, 10:38:18 pm
Hi Chris,


Thanks for that. I’m probably using M2 rod with push and pull and as you say it will spread load on servo. I’ve ordered a couple of red anodized connectors. Red white and blue theme (and a bit of orange) coming along inside the boat (once it’s all cleaned up)


Bob,


I had got a load of M2 rods and may as well use them now so will go with push/pull and see how it goes!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 26, 2021, 10:04:09 am
Hi Stuw,

I have used closed loop (push-pull) installations many times in the past - it is more or less standard practice for many r/c helicopter functions and it gives a balanced output to the servo, and if you have plenty of spare 2mm push-rods you may as well use them up.

As a matter of interest, bicycle spokes can be a good source of push rods and they are available in various colours too!

I am happy using a 3mm single push-rod for my servo to rudder operation - but some of the fancy alloy turnbuckles that are used on r/c cars could look quite "trick" too!

Colour coding your boats interior sounds good - I went part way with the Rapier1 and since the refit the interior is now a pale gloss grey throughout with a red anodised knob to hold the coloured LiPo retaining bar in place and the red anodised rod end on the push-rods is a start but it would be possible to go much further and make a fully customised look.

To be honest, painting anything at the moment is a problem for me - I need to get something "sorted" - especially for spray painting in my workshop (shed) without choking or getting over-spray drift covering everything in sight!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 26, 2021, 10:41:36 am
I had thought about turnbuckles too and read about spokes recently. All after buying the M2 rod!


I plan to spray the outside but brush the inside. I’m in a warm garage but won’t spray in there so will have to do it outside when weather is suitable! Still a long way to go to that point.


My SLEC order arrived with all sorts of goodies including 12mm ply for the motor mount braces. Will try to make some real headway next week on all fronts! Days are getting longer and the sun is shining here!


Whilst I think about it, do you have any sort of o ring or seal on the rudder to stop water coming into the stern via the post? I didn’t seem to have and was going to use lithium grease to help block it? My rudder sits in a fairly tall tube.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 26, 2021, 11:05:05 am

I use a lithium grease on my rudder shaft to stop water creeping up the tube and to keep it lubricated.

Although I have not had any water come in this way - I have had to remove the rudder tube and seal it back into the hull with Araldite  - not a bad idea in any case as it is another barrier between the water and the wood to stop any water creeping into the wooden keel and causing the plywood to delaminate in the longer term.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 26, 2021, 06:30:38 pm
The postman arrived with a 12" M5 prop shaft this morning so I cut a 6mm wide skeg to form a fillet between the shaft and the keel and after double checking my measurements I marked the area of the shaft where it passes through the keel and roughed-up the outside of the tube and glued it into the hull with 24hr Araldite.

As a reference, Rapier1 performs really well with a forward positioned (non kit standard) prop and rudder position so I wanted to do something similar on the Javelin as it uses exactly the same hull.

Rapier1 has its prop shaft tube ending 7" from the transom and the rudder shaft is positioned 4" from the transom.

By shortening the prop shaft to 12", this Javelin has its prop shaft tube ending a little closer to the transom than Rapier1 at 6 3/8", but the rudder shaft will be mounted at the same distance of 4" from the transom.  The prop shaft has a nice shallow angle that still gives 1/2" clearance between the tip of an X50 propeller and the bottom of the hull on the centre of the keel line and has almost zero over-hang past the bulkhead into the engine bay.

Note:-  All of the measurements used in the description above for use on this Classic model boat are given in "time appropriate" inches - not those new fangled milli-centimetre thingies. O0

I noticed a rudder (old type with brass tube and blue plastic tiller arm) being auctioned on eBay with all funds going to a good cause so I placed a bid and ended-up winning it for £9.70 including postage.  I am quite pleased about this as I am not too impressed with the plastic moulded mounting shaft type that we now have as a universal offering from most (if not all?) suppliers, so at least one of my current projects will end up with a decent "old style" rudder mounting.

There is also a chance that I may be able to clean-up the brass rudder mounting tube that was buried in the filler paste and epoxied and glass fibre resin laminated into the inside of this Javelin hull.  This took quite a bit of time and effort to get it out and it did not come out unscathed - but if I can clean this rudder tube up both of my current eBay purchased "restoration projects" (Javelin and Rapier 2) will have a nice "time appropriate" brass rudder mounts.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on February 28, 2021, 02:07:41 pm
The rudder post that suffered some distress as it was being extracted from the hull was straightened by rolling it on the table of my bandsaw and gently tapping the "high point" until it rolled more or less flat.

The axle shaft was straight and now turns inside the post more freely.

The rudder blade is detached from the shaft with plenty of lumpy solder blobs around it and the end of the shaft where they join together, so I will clean them up and see if I can soldering them together neatly and possibly drill and pin it.

I gently wound the worn brass nut up and down the shaft a few time with some thread cutting paste smeared on the threads and the nut runs up and down the shaft a little more freely - which is just as well as I cannot find out what thread is used on these old brass rudders?

It is a very fine thread and not an M6 as I had hoped.  I also have a box of 1/4" BSF nuts and this thread is also quite course when compared with the rudder shaft .

I will try to preserve the original brass nut as its the only one I have - but if anyone knows what the actual thread is I will try to find and buy a couple of spare nuts.  They do not have to be brass as the nut will be encapsulated with resin once it if fitted so give it a bit of extra support.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on February 28, 2021, 07:33:34 pm
Tutorial 1. Use of Hammer 1.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: madwelshman on February 28, 2021, 09:58:21 pm
Making good progress there Bob. Rails look good too  :-))


Interesting to read about the forward positioning of the shaft and rudder on Rapier #1 and that it works so well.
Just goes to show that conventional isn't always best.


Keep up the good work.


Will
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 01, 2021, 07:50:54 pm
The rudder shaft tube has been restored and the chewed end has been "dressed" so the rudder has a smooth surface to turn against.

I still have no idea what screw thread they used on these old brass rudders so I am going to chance using the "less than prefect" original brass nut.

If I can tighten it down reasonably well without stripping the remains of the thread, I will secure it with Araldite and then glass fibre it in later to give it some extra support.


The tube height will also be shortened by 1/2" to reduce the leverage on it when it is in use in the boat.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 01, 2021, 10:55:09 pm
The brass rudder tube post was shortened by 1/2" and has been fitted back into the hull 4" forwards of the transom.

Sadly I could not fit my new brass water scoop - because the threaded part of the shaft is too short to pass through the keel!

When fully inserted the threaded section is not in sight and only a small stub of the tube to fit the cooling hose onto is visible - not enough to push the tube onto even if the scoop was only glued in without using a nut to secure it.

Another problem with the brass water pick-up is that the top part that has the silicone cooling tubing pushed over it is only a plain tube - it does not have any ribs to help prevent the tube from slipping off.  I know that silicone tube does have a good "bite" and is unlikely to slip off but it would not have been too much of a problem to add a rib to the programming to add a little security.

The upshot of this is that I have fitted a plastic water cooling pick-up as that has enough threaded section to pass completely through the keel and leave plenty of thread left to wind the retaining nut down to secure it (even with a thick brass washer fitted).

When the rudder and water cooling pick-up was fitted, I was able to make and fit a plywood plate to mount the steering servo onto. This was screwed onto a sturdy pair of mounts that have been Araldited into the hull.  When the glue has set I will unscrew the plate and glass fibre the mounts firmly into the hull.  The temporary plate fixing screws can be removed when the hole is cut out for the servo to fit into,  and the screw holes can be countersunk and a larger size of screw used for the permanent fix.

The brass scoop will not be wasted - I will fit it in a glass fibre hulled boat that does not have a keel - or I could mount it off-set to one side of the keel (like we used to do with the nitro and petrol powered boats to help counter the torque steering).
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 02, 2021, 08:22:57 am
The rudder shaft tube has been restored and the chewed end has been "dressed" so the rudder has a smooth surface to turn against.

I still have no idea what screw thread they used on these old brass rudders so I am going to chance using the "less than prefect" original brass nut.

If I can tighten it down reasonably well without stripping the remains of the thread, I will secure it with Araldite and then glass fibre it in later to give it some extra support.


The tube height will also be shortened by 1/2" to reduce the leverage on it when it is in use in the boat.


I’m re-using my old brass rudder post as well. Looks better than the plastic offerings today. It sounds like my thread  is in better shape than yours.


You are making great progress Bob. I found similar issues with that new brass water scoop but thought it could work if only the tip was poking out of the hull (as I saw on the Riva thread pictures I believe?). Whether it would be effective enough I don’t know. Haven’t tackled this yet. I might offset through the hull as an option. Or go plastic as you have done. I also noticed the lack of a ridge to help the silicone tube stay on!


Now I want to sand the underside of the boat and to get a better run at it, the strakes could do with coming off! It would also allow me to examine the hull underneath. I have purchased some obechie strip. I think I shall be bold and renew the strakes as they are rounded in places and would look better if done properly.


I’ve got all the sticky silver tape off but still to remove the glue. It was tricky getting right up the inside of the engine bay! All of the silicone sealant has been slowly scraped out of the transom area and upper bulkhead edges.


In the meantime my red anodized pushrod balljoints have arrived. They are M3 to the beefed up servo horn, and M2 threads for the pushrods. I’ve then got M2 to M2 plastic mini balljoints into the rudder tiller arm that was purchased to go atop my old brass rudder. The tiller is a black Glassfibre mount with a brass insert and a grub screw. I went for M2 pushrod as the tiller didn’t look wide enough to take M3 in my opinion.



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 02, 2021, 09:53:29 am
Hi Stuw,

Scraping away glue residue etc inside an old hull does take time - but it will be well worth it when it is done and it sounds like you are making good progress.

It's a shame to take the old strakes off of your hull, and depending how you fixed them on they may or may not be a little tricky to take off. If they are still really well attached and you are sure you want to remove them I think I would probably sand them away rather than risk pulling them off.

If the strakes are loose or not stuck too well and you can get a good grip with a pair of pincers, the rolling action may cause less potential damage than pulling them or levering them off but you would still need to be careful not to damage the bottom skins.

I have no mechanical fixes(brass nails etc) on the strakes that I have just fitted to the Rapier1 and the Javelin - I used thin fast setting super-glue and I am hoping that the long term bond will stay permanently secure.  I used PVA with lots of nails to hold the strakes in place when I fitted the strakes on the Swordsman and pulled the nails out when the glue had dried.  The super-glue method was much faster and if the bond stays firm I would not use PVA for this job again.

Having checked the cockpit floor height etc I am planning to fit the ESC mounting shelf in the same place as Rapier1 (but under the cockpit floor).  If this works out it will save having to extend any LiPo or ESC wires so I can keep them all as short as possible.  If I get this done today and it works I will let you know.

Stay safe,

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on March 02, 2021, 10:08:23 am
Water scoop shortfall!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 02, 2021, 11:17:06 am
Ah. Yep I hadn’t thought about the fact that the strakes could rip away some of the hull. Will pause on that. Nice and sturdy looking servo mount.


I’ve never used glassfibre. Are you able at some point to briefly explain how you would do this to strengthen the hull etc. or point me in the right direction. Do you use glass cloth and if so what type/thickness would you recommend please?


It looks like there is either epoxy or resin around the rudder post and along the keel inside. Is that glassfibre?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 02, 2021, 11:39:12 am
Ah. Yep I hadn’t thought about the fact that the strakes could rip away some of the hull. Will pause on that. Nice and sturdy looking servo mount.


I’ve never used glassfibre. Are you able at some point to briefly explain how you would do this to strengthen the hull etc. or point me in the right direction. Do you use glass cloth and if so what type/thickness would you recommend please?


It looks like there is either epoxy or resin around the rudder post and along the keel inside. Is that glassfibre?


Yes - the previous owner poured some glass fibre resin into the hull around the keel and it has done a good job preserving and protecting it from the fuel of the nitro engine that it had in it.

Working with glass fibre resin is really simple and easy.

Bondaglass comes with a harder (like P38) - and you can start with a small kit that has the resin, harder and the chopped matting etc in the box.

Cut some chopped matting roughly but oversized shape to fit where you want it to reinforce before you start.

Pour some of the resin into an old spray can cap (or whatever you have spare) give it a squirt of harder and stir it together.

Brush the resin onto the wood and lay some (pre cut) matting onto it and then stipple it into the resin.  The resin soaks easily into the matting and is easy to manipulate.

You can add more matting or resin as you stipple to kept it wet enough and it will dry in a few minutes.  It does not seem to be as temperature sensitive as epoxy and I find it easier to work with.

Buy some cheap disposable brushes  - they will dry as hard as a rock!  Cheap disposable gloves are also a good idea!

Other makes of resin are available and you can use cloth instead of chopped matting if you like, but the matting conforms easily to shape and is handy when reinforcing corners and around mounts etc.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on March 02, 2021, 11:44:19 am
It's a pity that Raboesch don't make two different lengths of water scoops as they are very nicely made - one for when just passing through the hull and one for passing through the keel.

Stu - where did you get your anodised ball joints from and the servo arms?

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 02, 2021, 11:50:11 am

Yes - the previous owner poured some glass fibre resin into the hull around the keel and it has done a good job preserving and protecting it from the fuel of the nitro engine that it had in it.

Working with glass fibre resin is really simple and easy.

Bondaglass comes with a harder (like P38) - and you can start with a small kit that has the resin, harder and the chopped matting etc in the box.

Cut some chopped matting roughly but oversized shape to fit where you want it to reinforce before you start.

Pour some of the resin into an old spray can cap (or whatever you have spare) give it a squirt of harder and stir it together.

Brush the resin onto the wood and lay some (pre cut) matting onto it and then stipple it into the resin.  The resin soaks easily into the matting and is easy to manipulate.

You can add more matting or resin as you stipple to kept it wet enough and it will dry in a few minutes.  It does not seem to be as temperature sensitive as epoxy and I find it easier to work with.

Buy some cheap disposable brushes  - they will dry as hard as a rock!  Cheap disposable gloves are also a good idea!

Other makes of resin are available and you can use cloth instead of chopped matting if you like, but the matting conforms easily to shape and is handy when reinforcing corners and around mounts etc.


Brilliant, thanks Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 02, 2021, 11:56:57 am
It's a pity that Raboesch don't make two different lengths of water scoops as they are very nicely made - one for when just passing through the hull and one for passing through the keel.

Stu - where did you get your anodised ball joints from and the servo arms?

Chris


I’ve just found this thread on water scoops with a handy tip on securing the silicone tube with a further short section of tube over the top! [size=78%]https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28691.25.html (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28691.25.html)[/size]


Pushrod connectors - [size=78%]https://www.noahsrcark.co.uk/products/d4fcc5ab95/131444000000096853 (https://www.noahsrcark.co.uk/products/d4fcc5ab95/131444000000096853)[/size]


Servo arm - fastrax  ( as well as securing screw into servo, they have two bolts under the head that tighten the collar around the servo marked in red on my photo) - [size=78%]https://www.modelsport.co.uk/index.php?product_id=363137&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo8qeyMaR7wIV0NPtCh3EwARREAQYAiABEgJVxfD_BwE (https://www.modelsport.co.uk/index.php?product_id=363137&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo8qeyMaR7wIV0NPtCh3EwARREAQYAiABEgJVxfD_BwE)[/size]


Only found out servo arm holes were M3 threaded once they arrived!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 02, 2021, 12:24:23 pm
I bought my red anodised rod-ends from eBay - very good quality and inexpensive.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on March 02, 2021, 01:27:29 pm
Thanks Stu, they look nice quality.

Bob, I did have a look on Ebay but didn't know which ones you'd got! Did you buy the 3mm rod separately as the supplied lengths don't look that long?

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 02, 2021, 01:33:35 pm
Thanks Stu, they look nice quality.

Bob, I did have a look on Ebay but didn't know which ones you'd got! Did you buy the 3mm rod separately as the supplied lengths don't look that long?

Chris




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8pcs-M3-Metal-Ball-Head-Holder-Link-Rod-End-Ball-Joint-for-1-10-Car-Tru-D-/174281843956?hash=item289401e4f4


These are the ones that I have used and at £5.90 for 8 they are a very good price....and excellent quality too!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 02, 2021, 01:38:08 pm
Thanks Stu, they look nice quality.

Bob, I did have a look on Ebay but didn't know which ones you'd got! Did you buy the 3mm rod separately as the supplied lengths don't look that long?

Chris


Just to confirm, the ones that I linked to are M3 to the servo arm but only M2 sized for pushrod. Couldn’t find any others of this sizing combination online. Bobs are better value. If I hadn’t gone for M2 rod I would have gone for them. My tiller also dictated M2 for me. It was a bit of trial and error as sometimes you only find out the detailed sizing when they arrive!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on March 02, 2021, 01:45:08 pm
Thanks chaps

I have uses for both sizes, nice bit of bling!

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 02, 2021, 01:46:26 pm
Only black or blue in stock at the moment:-


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8pcs-M3-Metal-Ball-Head-Holder-Link-Rod-End-Ball-Joint-for-1-10-RC-Car-Truck-/174348245515?var=&hash=item2897f71a0b (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8pcs-M3-Metal-Ball-Head-Holder-Link-Rod-End-Ball-Joint-for-1-10-RC-Car-Truck-/174348245515?var=&hash=item2897f71a0b)


Same supplier.

Black are £5.90 for 8.

Silver and red are out of stock and the blue ones are slightly more expensive at £6.34 for 8.

Blue has got to be a good colour for your Fairey fleet ?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: mrzippy on March 02, 2021, 02:27:40 pm
Guys water scoops are a doddle to make !
in the good old i.c. powered days a simple short length of straight pipe would be positioned behind the prop at a very shallow angle,
slash cut vertically and glassed into the hull, job done !!

IMHO. modern day fast electric powered boats benefit from seperate cold water systems -
I cool the motor, the esc. and in some instances (Swordsman) a sound generator with three seperate systems,
all supplied by a single water scoop.

I make my own twin/triple scoops from brass or copper tube with a simple el-cheapo modeling pipe bender -
(a mini version of the traditional plumbers tool) used to bend a curve in the pipe, which is slash cut vertically.
Two or three are soldered back to back and filed into a single streamlined shape (similar to old Aerokits threaded brass inlets),
the internal ends are bent in different directions to allow easy silicone pipe fitting.

Leave just enough scoop projecting below the hull to catch prop wash, without causing too much drag -
modern high speed fast electric racers have the tiniest streamlined scoops sticking out of the hull in all manner of positions,
not necessarily behind the prop.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 02, 2021, 07:47:27 pm
Are your three pick-up pipes stacked (under-water) one on top of the other?

Having three separate water-cooled systems running from a single multi-stacked pick-up is interesting - do you have any pictures?

I don't have a use for three separate cooling systems, but I could have a use for two (to cool the ESC and the motor).  I have already been trying to find-out where to buy one of the alloy "Y" shaped joints so that I could split the input from my single scoop into two systems.

These "Y junctions are sometimes used to join air pipes on aquariums .  The posh looking anodised alloy one that I have seen pictured here on the Mayhem some time back is the type that I would like to find.......it won't work any better than any of the others others that I have seen - but I do like the "bling" factor, and I remember them being available in a choice of colours some time ago too!.

Two separate pick-ups sounds interesting.

The flush fitting pick-ups that can be placed almost anywhere on the bottom of the hull also look interesting and they would give no resistance at all, but I do worry about their structural integrity - if one became detached it would cause a flood.  I am guessing that covering them with an epoxy or glass fibre coating inside the hull would be the best way to ensure they don't break away from the inside of the hull skin?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: mrzippy on March 03, 2021, 12:39:36 pm
Hi Zooma,
Yes pre bent pipes are stacked one on top of the other before soldering, see photos attached below -
it's also handy to be able to bend the internal ends in what direction suits the models installation,
or continue the metal pipe along the inside of the hull towards the motor etc.

I've seen fast electric racing mono hulls, where weight is absolutely critical,
going to the extreme of having the motor cooling scoop coming into the hull at the bow at the side of the motor,
purely to save the weight of a length of silicone tube !!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 03, 2021, 12:42:27 pm
That is super-neat and tidy mrzippy - nice idea and well executed.


Thanks for sharing the pictures.


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: mrzippy on March 03, 2021, 01:04:00 pm
Cheers ! below should be a pic of the type of pipe bender I use,
a cheap lightweight cast item, but ok for model gauge tubing.
Paul
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 03, 2021, 01:11:19 pm
That is a nice neat little tool.


There is a copy of it for sale on eBay for £14.50 (and from a good supplier - Chronos) who I have used for years, but yours is a genuine Irwin Record so it may be better quality.


Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 03, 2021, 01:50:13 pm
Nice pics Mr Zippy!


Is the raised plywood section to the right of the water tubes some strengthening for the rudder tube?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: mrzippy on March 03, 2021, 04:09:02 pm
The above pipe bender pic is an example photo quickly nicked off the interweb -
mines bright yellow painted finish and a nasty, very poor quality copy, but does the job - just !

Stuw yes it's a vertical continuation/extension of the keel to support the rudder tube, nothing to do with the scoop scenario,
the model is a scaled up 1.5X Aerokits 'Sea Hornet' around a metre long.

I'll contact my pal who multi-raced a quick HP40 rear induction glow powered version in the 80's quite successfully,
to find out what mods he made to the chine strakes etc, which I know improved the performance a great deal -
allowing a basic wooden kit hull to keep up with the exotic glass fibre flatties of the period.

Paul
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 03, 2021, 04:46:46 pm
The above pipe bender pic is an example photo quickly nicked off the interweb -
mines bright yellow painted finish and a nasty, very poor quality copy, but does the job - just !

Paul


Your bright yellow painted nasty quality copy of the Irvine Record small pipe bender is certainly working well enough Paul - and it is giving you a good result.

I may splash-out on the copy pipe bender from Chronos.  Its only half the price (or less - depending on where you buy the original type) than the genuine Irvine Record version, but I am sure that it will be more than good enough for any small pipe bending that I will ever want to do  - and I do fancy having a go at making a twin water pick-up like yours - it looks really neat.

A one metre Sea Hornet sounds really cool.....do you have any pictures to share with us on here? I can imagine that some nice chunky strakes would look good on that hull and I would expect them to help the performance........as your pal has already proven.

It would be good to find out how many strakes your pal fitted and where they stopped and started. This can make a difference - and he has the results - so it would be interesting to know how he configured his.

I have added some of my home made strakes to the Javelin in the hope that it will make a difference.  I got carried away once I had found a set-up to cut them on my small bandsaw and rattled off enough to fit the Swordsman and the Rapier (these have also been fitted!).

The strakes were formed from 6.5mm square obchie cut diagonally to give a nice chunky look.......and as the water is still 12" to the foot scale (!) I think having them a little over-sized may not be a bad idea.

Stay safe,

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: mrzippy on March 06, 2021, 11:38:30 am
My pals hull mods were the same as you guys are now making - 3 small spray rails along each hull bottom skin parallel with the keel,
plus one along the chine blended in with car body filler to create lift, it makes a difference to the performance.
Paul
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 09, 2021, 05:56:44 pm
Thanks for the info Paul. Mine are a bit wavy and uneven now so will need to fill them or start again...


Progress on my Javelin has been extremely slow as I’ve been pondering where to put the various electronic bits, how to tackle the paint removal and engine mounting on this old model. I don’t want to ruin it so am taking my time, sketching ideas and coming up with possible solutions. I’ve been reading through lots of threads in the “how to” section on painting etc and have realised that there are a multitude of ways to skin a cat.


As I’m new to the hobby really after so long away from model building I think I’m a bit afraid of making a mess of it!


I have bitten the bullet and ordered some Perma-Grit items to assist me in this quest having read about their longevity and effectiveness. I’ve gathered all the bits I need. I now have the time consuming job of sanding off the old paint.


Bob Zooma you made it look easy with yours but it must have taken some serious elbow grease! My job is also a bit more fiddly as I have to sand between my strakes. Unless I end up scrapping them! See how it goes.


Full scale work has also got in the way as has some gardening and decorating to be done so I’m sorry to say it’s not getting there anytime soon.


I look forward to being able to post some real progress and have realised that it would be quicker to build myself a Lesro Arrow than do my refurb! However I am attached to my Javelin after all these years. I read on another thread, Bob that you had returned to some boats that you’d owned many years ago.


I’ve also been keeping a beady eye on eBay etc but all I see are either very expensive offers or some extremely poor offerings. No javelins or rapiers to my knowledge!







Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 09, 2021, 06:29:16 pm
The Perma-Grit tools you have just bought will prove to be a good investment Stuw as they are very helpful.  I have used mine a lot since I first had them and I am sure that you will find them really useful too.

I have fitted the engine mount and the rudder servo mounts into my Javelin and now also the ESC mounting tray.

Last night I wanted to fit a new blade in my band saw - but I ended up stripping the machine to give it a good clean and then setting everything up again after I put it back together.  It is now purring nicely but it took an evenings work away from making the battery holder tray to hold a pair of LiPo cells for the Javelin.

Once this last item of my internal hull fittings is finished, I can put some glass fibre resin and matting inside to armour the engine mount and generally coat the inside to help keep it strong and durable for many future years use.

You are right about my Javelin needing plenty of elbow grease to remove the glass fibre jacket that was around the hull, but without doing that I did not know if this coating was hiding anything bad underneath - it was also making the hull a lot heavier than it needed to be and I wanted to get back to the wood so I had something to glue my new strakes onto!

If you are still thinking about replacing your strakes, sanding the old ones off with your new Perma-Grit tools will make a reasonably fast and easy job of it leaving you with a nice flat surface to glue your new strakes onto.

Used Rapiers and Javelins do come up for sale now and again - but often the seller does not know what they are - so you need to look for the shapes and the size and not rely on them being correctly named.

My "new to me" Rapier 2 was not advertised as a Rapier and my Javelin was not advertised as a Javelin - but I recognised the shapes and the length of the hull on the eBay listings and they turned out to be exactly what I had hoped they were.

Yes - I am also interested in many of the classic r/c model boats from the '60s and have others to work on as well as the Javelin, but I am enjoying the Javelin re-build and I am looking forwards to running it alongside my Rapier later this year when we are all allowed out to play safely again  :-))

Stay safe - Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 12, 2021, 10:08:45 am
Ok. I’ve gone for strake replacement. My balsa ones are soft and lost their edge. The thought of trying to fill an edge on has been replaced with the intent to remove and replace with obechie strip as Bob’s look great.


I don’t have a bandsaw and although Bob offered very kindly to assist me, I have carved one so far by hand from a square to triangular section using my bushcraft knife. I found it quite therapeutic and feel my old Javelin deserves the addition of new “hand carved” strakes. Perhaps a little wasteful, but the shavings make great tinder for lighting the coal BBQ later this year! (I don’t do chemical accelerants, I digress however!)


I have also taken a careful chisel (if there is such a thing) to my old strakes with success.


So progress...


Pictures:

1- old strake lost its edge
2- handiwork
3- new strake
4- comparison
5- chisel old strake


Photos get a bit squashed so strakes look uneven but are from square section.


Also my Perma-Grit box of goodies arrived! All the gear but no idea? Hope not!


On a side note - I sourced a motor and ESC combination way back last April as I was trying to get a suitable power source to replace the old glow engine. As I had no real idea of brushless motors and Kv etc I did my own research but hadn’t stumbled across this great place! (If I had I would have been able to provide zooma with some Javelin company earlier!).


It turns out that my choice of power source to match a Proboat Sonicwake might be a bit over the top! I’ve finally got round to watching some YouTube clips of this craft and although it’s often powered by more than 2S 7.4v, it is a beast! Obviously the hull shape, mass and prop/rudder setup is way different to my ply hull Javelin but I shall be cautious when testing!


A question for Bob - when you bonded your new strake with CA did you just apply the adhesive to the bare sanded surfaces or treat with sanding sealer? Also was it “standard” CA household use or a special formula you would recommend? Mine won’t be going back on anytime soon but just been re-reading your “how to” posts again.


Thanks all.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 12, 2021, 11:09:18 am
Your whittling skins with a bushcraft knife are superb Stuw - well done...............only another five to go  {-)

I used a very thin super-glue to bond my strakes directly onto the sanded bottom skin.  I bought mine from Richard at King Cobra Racing (01706 250007) and it is the type that they developed and use to hold the tyres onto the wheels of large scale racing cars, so it has to be super-strong to handle the brutal power that is put through them as well as the twisting stress that the tyres take during cornering, braking, and acceleration - all done very quickly and with a very fast heavy weight racing car.

This superglue is very thin and so it can wick (creep) into the fibres of the wood and provide a very strong bond. Its development also included the requirement to have a small amount of "flex" to add to its strength and durability. Most super-glues are quite brittle when dry and would not work as well when holding a racing tyre onto a rim as the flexing pressures would cause it to crack.

This tiny amount of "flex" is imperceptible but I am thinking that it could be an advantage for a job like this.

The glue also dries very quickly so I found it ideal for gluing the strakes on as I could work my way along them and hold the curvature in place - dab it with the super-glue  - hold it in place for a few seconds and then move on the the next small section etc. 

By starting at the front after shaping the end of the strake to fit against the inside edge of the bottom chine rail (at this stage the strake was being held upwards like an old type of semaphore car indicator) a small dab of the glue fixed it quickly in place against the skin and the chine rail.

Once this was fixed I was able to push the strake firmly against the skin and hold the next inch or so in the curvature needed as another dab of glue was applied to hold this next section in position.

By slowly working around the curvature at the bows I found it even easier to form the strakes shape than I had perviously done with steaming or soaking when using other methods.  I think it works so well because each very small part of the curved section is secured firmly in position and instead of cracking and snapping some of the strakes I had no failures at all.

Once the front curved section of the strakes were fixed in place (the hardest part) I held a steel straight edge against the remaining straight length (the easiest part) to check that the strakes were going to be as straight as I could make them and spotted them in place in small sections at a time until they were fixed in place along their entire length.

As each strake was fixed in place I then run the superglue along the entire outside edges of the strakes so it would "wick" its way into the fibres of the strake and the bottom ply skins..............and then repeated this 5 more times until all of the 6 strakes were fixed securely.

This process is actually very simple and does a nice job in a reasonably short time without the need to steam or soak the strakes or use any nails to pins that could cause the strakes to split or fracture.

A word of caution - I have not actually run the boat with these strakes fitted yet - so they could fall off !

The large scale racing cars are raced in all weather conditions (including rain and snow) and bond failure using this glue is not a problem.  Some model boat builders use super-glue exclusively in the construction of their model boats - and the don't fall apart - so I have every reason to believe that this method will keep the strakes firmly fixed to the hull.

A small test you could try to test your method and to see how good the bond is:-  Glue a small section of strake to some ply skin and make sure it is well fixed using the above method.  When it is dry - see if you can find any way of pulling them apart without destroying the wood.


It works for me  :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 12, 2021, 12:14:23 pm
Thanks Bob. Ok so it’s specialist stuff! Thanks very much for the info.


The old strakes are off without any issues. Careful chiselling and removal of brass nails. Interestingly the outer strakes were balsa and inner ones something like obechie hence why some had degraded more than others.


Now I can sand the hull in one area more easily and start whittling away for 5 more strakes  %%


I’ve had a productive morning, time for a lie down!  {-)




Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 12, 2021, 12:32:03 pm
Nice work Stuw - enjoy your rest  {-)


Here is the link to the super-glue that I use:-


https://www.kingcobra.co.uk/search.asp?keyword=KCR+Thin+CA+Glue (https://www.kingcobra.co.uk/search.asp?keyword=KCR+Thin+CA+Glue).


I have used both types and they both stick at least as good (or better) than any of the "big names" stuff that I have previously used.........and they are certainly NOT the most expensive at £4 for a 20g bottle.

I have done two complete hulls with strakes and several other jobs too and not used a full bottle yet - so it does go a long way.

The only difference between the two is that the "CA tyre glue" is supposed to dry with a slight "flex".

I have used both types and in the past I have sometimes picked the wrong bottle up by mistake and I cant see any difference - they both give a really powerful bond and  I don't know how to make a destruction test between them to test the "flex" difference between the two bonds - and to be honest I cant be bothered either - they both work really well and have a similar wicking (penetrating) quality so I use them both.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 12, 2021, 01:42:31 pm
Ordered some! Not too pricey and it works as far as we know!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 12, 2021, 03:29:36 pm
Ordered some! Not too pricey and it works as far as we know!


Funnily enough - I have just ordered some more too!

I have used it for some time when making boat stands, squirrel boxes, building sub-assembles (lots of things) and repairs .....and my glass fibre hulled TID Tug was more or less assembled with it joining ABS/brass/white metal/glass fibre/platistrut/wood/plastic card/resin castings etc although the small plastic card sub-assemblies were put together with solvent before the completed units were fixed onto the tug with the super-glue.

The TID has been on the water for over three years now and nothing has fallen off.......yet.

When I wanted to make some changes to my first  squirrel box after it has been outside for two winters, I still found it impossible to break the bond where I had used this same super-glue so I think it will be OK on the strakes ..........but time will tell!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on March 12, 2021, 04:36:07 pm
Your whittling skills are indeed impressive Stuw. Looking at the old strakes it was definitely the right decision to replace them. I tried to repair a small damaged section on one of my boats and had a right game getting the filler to hold.

For fixing the strakes I basically use the same process as Bob though I used Slo Zap slow cure CA to give me a bit more time to position the strakes. I've since been using thin CA where I previously used Slo Zap so may well use it for the next strakes.

Talking of squirrel boxes, I had a face to face with our resident mouse this morning when replenishing the peanuts! It stayed in there until I lifted the lid right up! It either eats the nuts or takes them back to its nest and has been known to empty the box overnight!

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 12, 2021, 10:14:48 pm
This afternoon I decided to put some glass fibre resin and chopped matting inside the hull to armour-up the engine mount base in the engine bay, the LiPo tray mounts in the central cabin and some coating over the inserted plugs that were filling the holes left by the previous skeg, water pick-up scoop and rudder in the rear cab area.

Some chopped matting was roughly cut to shape for the areas that I wanted to cover and then the resin was mixed with the harder and brushed onto each section in turn, followed by the chopped matting that was then wetted and stippled down - followed by the next section until they were all coated.

I planned to do this job outside due to the smell, but it was far too cold to work outside and although my workshop/shed was not much warmer at least there was no wind, rain, or sleet to try to protect the boat from!

To be honest, the smell of the Fastglas was nothing like as bad as I remember it being in the summer - maybe the hot weather makes it give off stronger fumes, but doing the job inside was not at all bad and the cold weather never affected the drying of the resin - it was hard only 20 minutes later.

That is one of the reasons why I like working with glass fibre - it does not seem to be unduly affected by cold or hot weather as the chemical reaction of the harder seems to work just as well whether it is hot or cold.

Now that job is done I can get the motor mounting plate, LiPo tray and servo mounting tray fitted back inside hull and double check where I need some new holes to allow the various wires to pass neatly through the bulkheads and check the water cooling pipe routing etc.  Once it is all fitted, tested, and working well, it can all be taken back out again so I can paint the inside of the hull.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: madwelshman on March 13, 2021, 12:01:45 am
Well done Bob, another step forward in the project and another step closer to the water.


Will
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 13, 2021, 10:04:52 am
Well done Bob, another step forward in the project and another step closer to the water.


Will


Thanks Will,

I just noticed that my MAC based spell checker much prefers to call the Fastglas hardener "harder" - I should have spotted that !

Enjoy your weekend, get stuck into that  camper van! :-))

 Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: mrzippy on March 13, 2021, 10:20:21 am
Nice work going on here guys,  great to see you've discovered 'Perma-Grit' - the best thing since sliced bread IMHO,
I cannot imagine modeling these days without my files and sanding blocks, it's brilliant kit !

I can also recomend a 'brand new' Stanley knife blade, used as Cabinet Scraper for the initial levelling of the rough area
where your old strakes were mounted.

I use them to great effect for scraping planked decks flat - a good example springs to mind -
when using white plastic strip caulking between cherry planks (Riva style),
my stock bought plastic strips stood approx 2mm proud and a Stanley blade was the only thing that would take them down.
A new Permagrit block struggled with the plastic surface and kept clogging -
must emphasize it needs to be a new sharp blade for best results.

Paul
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 13, 2021, 12:05:03 pm
Nice work Bob.


Paul, yes my Perma-Grit block and a couple of files arrived and I’ve already realised how fantastic they are! And Made in UK which is a rarity these days.


Stanley blade “top tip” duly noted.


My KCR CA is due to arrive today, amazing speed of shipment!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 13, 2021, 07:03:18 pm
Some progress today at paint removal. Helped by my new sanding block and my power sander.


Not there yet but steady progress outdoors. Trying not to annoy the neighbours with the noise!


The transom has come up nicely. Only grey filler was 25+ years ago when I changed my mind about glow exhaust location.


Taking all paint off to make sure the new paint doesn’t react with whatever I’d used all that time ago.


Goodbye old Javelin paint scheme (as per the Lesro box but changed my mind and put yellow over the orange as can be seen....)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 13, 2021, 07:23:03 pm
Some progress today at paint removal. Helped by my new sanding block and my power sander.


Not there yet but steady progress outdoors. Trying not to annoy the neighbours with the noise!


The transom has come up nicely. Only grey filler was 25+ years ago when I changed my mind about glow exhaust location.


Taking all paint off to make sure the new paint doesn’t react with whatever I’d used all that time ago.


Goodbye old Javelin paint scheme (as per the Lesro box but changed my mind and put yellow over the orange as can be seen....)


One step closer Stuw - and no doubt it gave you a welcome break from your strake whittling   O0

I have lost count of the number of holes I had to fill in on my Javelin hull - maybe 20 or 30 ?......including a very similar exhaust hole to yours in the transom!

All of the holes were plugged with tight fitting wooden inserts that mostly needed to be hammered-in after being coated with PVA and the large oblong skeg hole and the old position rudder and pick-up holes have also been covered over inside the hull with chopped matting and glass fibre resin.

Now I am fitting-out the inside of the hull with the shaft, coupling, motor, ESC, water cooling tube, rudder with arm and linkage and the steering servo and I also need to decide on the best location for the receiver and make a mounting shelf to carry it.

This afternoon I replaced the missing front section of the deck/bow side strake that was already broken-off when I bought it, but I won't be doing much more to the outside until after the inside is finished.

........hope your whittling is going well  :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on March 14, 2021, 09:34:31 am
If in doubt BUILD STRONG... %)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 14, 2021, 10:43:23 am
Brilliant! A picture tells a thousand words and that’s helped me with my ideas. As mine is also an old model I shall try some internal strengthening as well.


Bob it looks as though your Lipo tray is screwed in to allow it to be removed? I was thinking along similar lines to allow access below if needed.


My ESC will go forward of the rudder servo in rear compartment as I have more room there as my rudder post if further aft than yours. It is easier access than in the cockpit and will allow me to mount it as low as possible to keep CG as low as possible.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 14, 2021, 11:28:36 am
Brilliant! A picture tells a thousand words and that’s helped me with my ideas. As mine is also an old model I shall try some internal strengthening as well.


Bob it looks as though your Lipo tray is screwed in to allow it to be removed? I was thinking along similar lines to allow access below if needed.


Hi Stuw,

Yes on Rapier1,  I permanently bonded-in the LiPo tray, engine mounting plate, ESC shelf and the steering servo mounts with 24hr Araldite.

The top plates were all bonded onto the support mounts and the complete units bonded into the hull.

Because all the above mounts have worked so well in Rapier1, I have copied them again for use in Rapier2 and Javelin. This is unusual because usually after a year or so of good regular use it is always possible to "improve" or "correct" any small niggles - but all of them have been proven to work well and not cause me any problems - which is almost a shame as I like to modify and improve - but this time I cant! <:(

The change this time around is that I screwed the top plates onto the mounts and then epoxied the assemblies into position.  When the epoxy had set, I unscrewed the top plates from the mounts, removed them, and reinforced the mounts into the hull with the resin and matting as seen in the pictures above.

The reason for doing this is that with the original (and more usual) method of fixing everything into the hull I cannot see what is underneath or how well the epoxy has covered and spread around the mounts.  This revised method allows me to be certain that the mounts are well secured and laminated into the hull.

I also thought that in the event of an accident that holed the hull, it would be easier to repair if I could get to work on both sides of the bottom skin
and this method gives me complete access just by unscrewing the various top plates if needed.

Having said that - now that I know the mounts for the engine plate , LiPo tray and servo mounts are really secure I may just bond the motor mounting tray onto the mounts anyway (!) ......as I like the motor mount in particular to be rock solid and I don't think that screwing it onto the mounts will be anything like as ridged as they would be if they were bonded down with 24hr Araldite................... %)

The ESC shelf (not shown in any of the pictures) has been made to be bolted onto the firewall bulkhead.  I did this so I have the option of mounting it on either side of this bulkhead, but as everything has come together I think it will be staying under the cockpit floor as my fears of not having enough room for it were unfounded - it all fits in very neatly.

Last night I undercoated the inside of the hull and it is now looking a lot cleaner (or as clean as a rebuild hull that had previously been fitted with a glow motor and fuel tank etc can be !).  I was tempted to spend a few hours sanding-out every little lump, bump and ridge from the previous mountings but then I decided that life was too short - and in any case, they add a little character that the boat has gained form its previous history!

Enjoy your weekend!.

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 14, 2021, 11:44:41 am
Yes, having a removable bulky Lipo tray I agree with for the reasons you state.


Ref the motor mount I too was torn between epoxy or removable and was worried that if just screwed in might be an issue with vibration or not as strong so am favouring bonding it as well given my motor size and possible rpm levels.


I was thinking of filling and smoothing out as well. But as you say “it shows the boat’s character!” I shall however plug the large square hole in the forward bulkhead (engine bay to cockpit) as the bulkhead is rather flexible and likely to resonate.


Lots of work ahead!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 15, 2021, 06:36:10 pm
Finished whittling the 6 strakes from obechie strip! Interesting how the grain changed direction along the strips. Had to be careful not to break any. All done without trouble.


I put them on hull to show but not going on anytime soon as I still have a lot of sanding to do to remove the old paint. I do have the KCR flexible CA ready in my store when the time comes to attempt attachment.


Have spent many hours recently trawling through all useful posts on painting to adhesives to the Swordsman build from 2007.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 15, 2021, 07:58:01 pm
Finished whittling the 6 strakes from obechie strip! Interesting how the grain changed direction along the strips. Had to be careful not to break any. All done without trouble.


I put them on hull to show but not going on anytime soon as I still have a lot of sanding to do to remove the old paint. I do have the KCR flexible CA ready in my store when the time comes to attempt attachment.


Have spent many hours recently trawling through all useful posts on painting to adhesives to the Swordsman build from 2007.


Fantastic whittling Stuw - very skilful  - you don't need a bandsaw to cut your wood !

The grain changing part way along the length of the obechie strip is something that I have noticed too - even when cutting my strakes on the bandsaw - and that is the time when the blade wants to pull itself out of the wood and spoil the strake.

Not having your skill, I made a jig to keep the wood in the right position against the blade, but I still need to use my fingers to "feel" the wood as it is being cut and react to any change of grain to stop the blade pulling out or digging-in by changing my finger pressure on the wood as it enters and leaves the jig.

It looks like your Javelin is going to be well "sorted" and changing your old strakes was a good idea!

Well done!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 17, 2021, 06:55:23 pm
I took a look at the modified Arrow model boat that Stuw mentioned on here earlier - the black and white one with the SunSeeker type reverse wing mounts (but with no actual wing fitted) and then I watched some of the "classic" off-shore powerboats on various uTube videos that Tony had directed me towards over the last few months.

Those with wings seem to have them mainly for mounting various antennas in a higher position for improved radio, TV, radar reception etc, but I doubt they were fitted for any aerodynamic reasons like they would be in a Formula 1 car.

There are a few (not many) classic off-shore powerboats that had a wing fitted so I thought that I would chop-out some shapes to see what one would look like if I fitted it to the Javelin.

The reverse type (forward facing) wing did not look as good on the Javelin as it does on the Arrow model, I think this is because the Javelin looks like a older (and chunkier) design of boat, so I gave up with that idea and made some more conventional (rearwards mounted) wings and mounts to see what may work.

In the end I thought that a "period" type of wing with "heavier" side frames would suite the design (and vintage) of the boat the best, but "wings on classic powerboats boats" can be a Marmite type of "love it or hate it" situation so I am sure that fitting one would not meet with too much general approval

SWMBO was (foolishly)  shown my ideas and she quite liked my final design idea (sort of) but then mentioned Buck Rogers and Dan Dare (well - I did ask) so that immediately put the idea into perspective {:-{ but undaunted I made a mock-up and clipped it onto the hull to imagine what it may look like with the various bumps and aerials mounted on it.

Modern powerboats (especially Sun Seeker types) often have very stylish wings that are often not only used to mount various radar, antenna, and spotlights etc on them, and some are so big that they make use of the as an extra storey sun-deck!.

A lot of LesRo Javelins and Streakers were sold, so I would like to make my look a bit "different" so I think I will fit a wing but maybe I will make it detachable (or even fitted with break-off bolts) so that I can return it to its classic shape in the future.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 18, 2021, 08:38:49 am
Here is a link to the modified Arrow:


https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=109238 (https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=109238)


I’m currently working on motor mount and braces. Coping saw and fret saw and lots of measuring things twice or more means it’s slow progress. I am also reverse engineering parts to fit my constructed hull. Bob has great experience of this. I do not! Thanks again for your ideas and photographs.


Alternating with sanding off the paint from the hull. Yes I still haven’t finished that. It’s stubborn and hard work eh Bob?

I have also acquired what appear to be good quality marine grade stainless steel nuts and bolts from here:


https://www.accu.co.uk/en/ (https://www.accu.co.uk/en/)


They are well made. I don’t think they are too bad on price when compared to other sites? Other suppliers are available. They do all sorts of countersunk washers and... sorry I’m getting carried away ordering little bits of metal?!

I’m working on making the motor mount plate (9mm ply!) removable to start with in case of other structural issues. If it works I may leave it as removable. Should I change to an inrunner at some point then it would make swapping the motor mount much easier to do. I’m going to use threaded inserts instead of wood screws to allow removal without trashing the wood. Well that’s plan A!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on March 18, 2021, 09:56:50 am
Javelin with wings.............Lesro Dart?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on April 03, 2021, 06:51:41 pm
Slow progress whilst I also do real world jobs (levelling an area for a greenhouse) but I’ve got my removable outdoor vice setup working to prevent filling the garage with fine sawdust!


Working on the motor mount braces to allow for the old slightly oily hull and the LIPO mounts with removable tray. I’m planning on using threaded inserts to allow me to remove tray. I’m going for meaty 12mm braces. These will help give my hull skin some more rigidity to perhaps reduce resonance.


The baseplate of the motor mount will also feature these to allow me to play with the setup and cope with a different motor if I switch to an out-runner in the future.


I’m cutting these by hand with fret and coping saws and keep stopping to check whilst sanding to fit the hull. Perma-Grit block and file are brilliant.


I could have used the 12mm ply more sparingly but didn’t want to try to cut two close together for my first effort. I plan to cut down to size once the bottom of the pieces fit the hull correctly!


Also still to remove the blue sticky glue from the old foil tape in the engine bay!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on April 03, 2021, 08:28:21 pm
Thats good work Stuw - a nice fit and a good width of plywood for the braces - it should be "as solid as a rock" and have enough width to accept your threaded inserts too  :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on April 05, 2021, 09:58:28 am
Hi Stuw


Add stringers each side of your engine mounts between the two frames.


I found the resonance was coming from the plywood skin.


We also had the same problem in the fibreglass hull of the Spearfish which we ran from stern to the motor mounts.


Harry
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on April 05, 2021, 04:31:36 pm
Thats good work Stuw - a nice fit and a good width of plywood for the braces - it should be "as solid as a rock" and have enough width to accept your threaded inserts too  :-))


Yep. As they are so wide that was my thought exactly!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on April 05, 2021, 04:32:53 pm
Hi Stuw


Add stringers each side of your engine mounts between the two frames.


I found the resonance was coming from the plywood skin.


We also had the same problem in the fibreglass hull of the Spearfish which we ran from stern to the motor mounts.


Harry


Hi Harry,


Thanks for that. I shall do as the skin is quite liable to resonate otherwise I reckon. I think I shall also add some in the mid section as it’s a large unsupported ply skin area. Apart from two meaty 12mm bases for my LIPO tray.


Will likely add some glassfibre and resin to the inside to help strengthen it as well.


I’m not bothered about weight on this model. I’d rather keep it all together as it’d quite old. I think with the motor it will be plenty fast enough for my needs!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on April 07, 2021, 10:10:21 pm
My restored Rapier is not a lightweight boat Stuw, but it still goes very well with "similar" power to the in-runner you are going to fit.

The Javelin should be faster as it does not have the high (non-aerodynamic) wheelhouse to drag around and shares exactly the same hull.

Keeping these old boats in one lump when giving them good regular use does change the way of thinking somewhat, and building them strong is the way to go.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on April 16, 2021, 03:01:05 pm
Assuming it is ok to link to eBay, I reckon this is a Javelin based on shape but with a difference to power Plant!


Bit steep to get it across the pond though!?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-collectible-model-wood-Speed-Boat-Perfect-Circle-39-long-w-KB-75-engine/274743864195?hash=item3ff802ab83:g:9m4AAOSwZo5gZ1a2 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-collectible-model-wood-Speed-Boat-Perfect-Circle-39-long-w-KB-75-engine/274743864195?hash=item3ff802ab83:g:9m4AAOSwZo5gZ1a2)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on April 16, 2021, 07:45:06 pm
Nice find Stuw,

A Javelin with an outboard motor on the back. A very interesting combination as a K&B 75 would have been able to kick-out quite a bit of power in its day, and it would have sounded good too!

The motor may not be "seized" as the advert says, but has probably "gummed-up", but if it has been run on high nitro (as the tin suggests) the engine may well be knackered as it has been laid on its back for a long time and the nitro will have corroded the lower side of the liner......and possibly the bearings too!

We used to have the same problem with nitro engines in r/c helicopters as the engine is also mounted in a similar laid-down orientation and so when the run has finished we would give it a squirt of lay-up oil and turn it over a few times to clean out the residue and to keep the motor lubricated.

As this motor is probably gummed-up (and later seized by corrosion?) it was also probably not given the "after-run" care that it needed, so a new piston and liner (and bearings?) would have to be factored into the cost, and with the postage costing almost as much as the boat(!)  this would make an expensive old Javelin........and like yours (and most others that were run with a nitro engine) it could well be fuel soaked in places too! <:(

We can probably get more power out of our brushless motors these days, but that outboard powered Javelin would still be spectacular model to see running  O0

Enjoy your weekend!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on April 26, 2021, 03:05:28 pm
Ok well I’ve just opened my package that arrived today.  %%  Or as my wife stated, “ another boat?!”


A little window on the past. Some hand written notes of imperial ply sizes. A small square of sandpaper. A brass rudder and tube. Engine mount ready. Throttle cable and exhaust tubes in. But propshaft bent, no servo mounts and no glowfuel contamination (good news!). Outside skins still old bare plywood and not watertight.


I was driven to purchase another Javelin. It needs some tlc. In some ways it’s in a better state than mine, but in most it is not! My rose-tinted buying specs made me imagine her somewhat more seaworthy but it’s also quite nice to find an unfinished Lesro Javelin and hopefully bring it to life or at least float.


Skins haven’t been treated at all on the outside.
Some delamination of bulkheads and chips of skin missing at corners
Hasn’t sailed as unfinished
Was being kitted out for glowfuel motor but exhaust unused and absolutely no fuel contamination inside (Yay!)
Has a brass rudder and brass tube (good news)
Varnished inside
No rubbing strips
No deck at the rear that joins transom? Missing bulkhead or two here?
Hatches don’t fit
One lonely, partial strake
Propshaft and tube bent badly.

Skins seem much more flexible than mine especially near the engine bay so either because:


1. Untreated,
2. delamination
3. Thinner ply? Or any other clues?


Lots of questions and I shall place Javelin 2 on the top shelf as I need to focus on the other one. Having said that life is getting in the way (could be worse) so not much progress on that front. May decide to reskin this one or even convert to Rapier? Who knows....


Must stop looking at eBay!  O0  I nearly ended up with a Graupner Pegasus III but decided a 4 foot twin motor and rudder boat was not going to fit in at home really (a boat I dreamt of owning as a teen living in Germany but my dad could only afford the Carina (which was a great first boat and much easier to build from what I’ve read))

Anyway back to the simpler (in theory) Javelin - Not sure how far to take it apart before getting it finished as the original builder must have intended. She will be getting either new skins or some fine glass cloth over the top I imagine of both. Or lots of filler  {-)  . Of course not, ahem.


Bob I am trying to join you in your efforts but fear I may be biting off more than I can chew. Still I can but try. I can understand your feelings about your dodgy Rapier now.


Having recently managed to acquire a lovely Sea Hornet kit unbuilt in original box (that’s for the future but couldn’t resist saving it) my other half has decreed no more boats to pass the threshold! I have more than enough to keep me busy over the next few years I reckon! Unless I can sneak some into the dark recesses of the loft but that’s not the best place for them.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on April 26, 2021, 08:11:37 pm
Nice one Stuw!

I did see that one on the bay and I am pleased that you have decided to rescue it.

Every restoration has its own challenges and every one needs a decision to be made at almost every stage about how far you want to go with it and how much of the kit you feel you would like to keep original.

Welcome to my world!

My decisions are often influenced by my age (currently 71) and my desire to get the boat back in action will sometimes be made with that in mind. Your younger age may well allow you to take a little longer to finish some sections or areas of the build as you can reckon on having longer to complete the work and enjoy running it.

I hope you enjoy your new project and I look forward to seeing your progress here on this Mayhem thread  :-))

Stay safe - Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on April 27, 2021, 09:09:34 am
HI Stuw


Looks like a good restorer, I would be happy for a boat like that as a starting point.


At a few stringers between the frames and with adding the spray rails on the outside will make it stronger.


Harry
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on April 27, 2021, 09:19:35 am
 Indeed. A good project and I’m a Javelin fan so that helps!


 Strakes and stringers will make a difference of course. It will be fun solving the problems!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on April 27, 2021, 08:15:35 pm
Get your whittling knife out again Stuw - another 6 strakes are needed  %)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 06, 2021, 08:01:10 pm
For those wanting to see what the Javelin should look like I’ve found this clip of a couple of IC Javelins on a choppy pond.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TEl5pMcLBuI (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TEl5pMcLBuI)



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 06, 2021, 08:18:18 pm
For those wanting to see what the Javelin should look like I’ve found this clip of a couple of IC Javelins on a choppy pond.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TEl5pMcLBuI (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TEl5pMcLBuI)


Yours will be faster then either of these two boats with your brushless set-up..........but it won't sound as good  %)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 07, 2021, 03:01:48 pm
Attached pictures from when she was new in mid 1990s. Helps to show position in water. Don’t judge my coupling or dodgy exhaust - it worked! Home made water jacket with heat proof bonding agent and some metal cut to fit around the head. I repurposed my motor from my RC aircraft - didn’t fancy buying a marine water cooled head.


1. And 2. (Blurry) On the water at Bolder Mere.


1. You can see where I cut a hole forward of the “909” on port side for the exhaust to vent out. Decided against a straight through pipe.

2. Blurred (so fast, not really) but can see water cooling flow exhaust forward of “909” on starboard.

3. Internals - heat reflective tape applied - I’m now wishing I hadn’t done that as I remove all traces of it!
Hole cut in forward cabin front face to let air in for cooling and to assist with exhaust gases going out of the other hole
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 07, 2021, 04:16:39 pm

I like the LesRo "factory colour scheme" for the Javelin as it is very striking, but it looks much nicer in the yellow and green colours that you have used rather than the orange and yellow box colours.

Good job - well done - it looks good on the water too.

It will be nice to see some pictures of your re-fitted (restored?) Javelin on some smooth water when powered with your new brushless in-runner motor and LiPo combination as it will lighter and faster.

Your "ride angle" looks very similar to my Rapier1 (same hull). You have a little more hull in the water in these pictures than I had at the weekend - but this could change when the new power kicks-in and it will be good to see what it looks like then.

Thanks for sharing your action pictures with us  - we don't get to see many pictures of Javelins in action. :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 07, 2021, 04:49:53 pm
I did start with orange and yellow and changed my mind, as I now find traces of orange whilst sanding the hull!


I had an old green Triumph Dolomite 1850 at the time and thought that might look better with yellow perhaps?!


Not sure why now, but I was running with 900g of ballast in the rear compartment! Maybe that’s why it’s down at the rear!


The lines of the Javelin look good to me and it will encourage me to pull my finger out when I can and get on with it (hopefully!)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: derekwarner on May 08, 2021, 01:23:31 am
That ..."green Triumph Dolomite 1850"  from memory :o was an attractive gloss version of Army Green......

Would give a visual appearance of a slightly smaller hull, maybe best with white contrasting trim surfaces?

Being Australian, Green & Gold are our National colours [Wattle]......but sometimes overdone......

Don't get me wrong, proud First Fleet Convict Patriot & love the Australian Olyimpic colours :kiss: , but not for Airline staff or Burger Shop uniforms <*<

Derek
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 08, 2021, 09:30:18 am
Hi Derek,


Your knowledge of green is broad ranging! The green that I used in 1994 wasn’t the Triumph green (possibly a Humbrol mini rattle can) and worked well with the yellow in my humble opinion. It was only for the stripe and arrow pattern.


I won’t be going green or yellow this time....


I quite liked it on my old Dolomite (it was an old car when I got it as my second car after my 72 Beetle). It had gold trim lines. I spent many hours keeping it on the road until filler needed to be replaced with metal and I gave up! That’s when you could tinker under the bonnet without any computers getting in the way!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 10, 2021, 11:43:57 am
Productive weekend for once! Nothing bonded yet but made the meaty LIPO tray and ribs, servo and ESC tray for aft. Used some threaded brass inserts for the first time. Worked very well.



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 10, 2021, 11:50:18 am
That looks like a good strong heavy duty piece of workmanship there Stuw.


I don't see much escaping without your express permission from that solid cluster of fittings!  {-)


Absolutely perfect - good job - well done!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 10, 2021, 01:34:50 pm
Indeed! Might slow it down, but as long as it all stays in one “old” piece I will be happy. As it’s all removable bar the bracing ribs and supports, I can always lean down the thicknesses of ply! yes those are 12mm sections between the cells. All cut by my (sore) hands with a coping saw. Took a while but a good workout!


Due to my rudder being further aft, I have got just enough room to fit ESC and servo (yet to cut out the slot for it) together in the aft section.


I took some inspiration for My LIPO tray from yours Bob as it looks the part. I decided to taper the sides to allow a bit of airflow around the cells to help with cooling but I’m not sure if they will get warm as I’ve never used them before! I will add some smaller section end pieces to stop the cells moving fore and aft. I went for 3 knobs which will hold down a brace piece (not made yet). Of course I will no doubt discover that it’s easier to lose 3 little knurled knobs (they aren’t captive).
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 10, 2021, 03:15:49 pm
Indeed! Might slow it down, but as long as it all stays in one “old” piece I will be happy. As it’s all removable bar the bracing ribs and supports, I can always lean down the thicknesses of ply! yes those are 12mm sections between the cells. All cut by my (sore) hands with a coping saw. Took a while but a good workout!


Due to my rudder being further aft, I have got just enough room to fit ESC and servo (yet to cut out the slot for it) together in the aft section.


I took some inspiration for My LIPO tray from yours Bob as it looks the part. I decided to taper the sides to allow a bit of airflow around the cells to help with cooling but I’m not sure if they will get warm as I’ve never used them before! I will add some smaller section end pieces to stop the cells moving fore and aft. I went for 3 knobs which will hold down a brace piece (not made yet). Of course I will no doubt discover that it’s easier to lose 3 little knurled knobs (they aren’t captive).


Your heavyweight plywood parts probably don't weigh that much compared to the old ballast that you have now removed, and with the change to brushless and LiPo's the all up weight will probably be quite a bit less than it was with the ic engine, silencer, and fuel tank etc, and with more power it should be faster than it was before.

My LiPo trays have no built-in air flow feature but they seldom get warm in Rapier1 and I fit a small Velcro pad at each end of the cells to stop them moving about inside the boat.

I really like those red anodised RJX helicopter canopy fasteners, they are very lightweight and look the part too! My LiPo tray "strap" only has one central red anodised threaded fastener on it  - so it is only one third  as colourful as yours %)

Rapier1 has the ESC "mid-ships" so that I don't have to lengthen any of the wires to the motor or to the LiPo cells, but I may end-up moving it as I experiment with the weight distribution inside the hull, so that could change. My plan (at the moment) is to repeat this layout in the Javelin.........or get as close to it as is practically possible.

I have started to make a new rear hatch for the Javelin in the hope that I may be able to make one with a better fit than the one that came with the boat, but it will not be finished to the same level (with the professionally lacquered paintwork) that the previous owner applied to the hatches.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 10, 2021, 03:43:31 pm
Here are some pics of old versus new power. I still have the original I.C. motor with adapted water cooled head that I fashioned.


I was actually surprised to find the motor weighs a few grams less than my brushless. But it is a bit of a beast inrunner 1900kV! I imagine yours are lighter Bob?!



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 10, 2021, 04:38:25 pm
Thats interesting Stu - I think we all assume that our brushless motors will be lighter than our old glow engines - but that is not so in your case - even though you have included the water-cooled motor mount on the brushless motor but not the motor mount for the aero-glow engine (not so easy to do) - it won't make that much difference.

My marine engines had some fairly heavy flywheels on them (I think they were chrome plated brass?) and I would be surprised if they weighed less than the out-runner motor that I am currently using, but it just goes to show that things we assume to be the case need checking carefully as they may not be what we think they are.

If you include the silencer and the associated pipework, your two power-plants may end up weighing a little closer to each other, but we still have the LiPo cells to add to the electric power systems on-board weight - but we can deduct the weight of a fuel tank and the fuel.

Nitro fuel runs out as it get burnt, and if glow engines were not quite so messy (!) all of the fuel would disappear from the boat and we would end up with an empty tank with all the fuel weight gone, but in real life a small percentage of the fuel will be spat-out and it will start to swill about inside the boat (until soaking into any wood that it can penetrate) and eventually coat it in the oily goo that we have all experienced.

The more often the glow engine powered boat runs - (in theory) the heaver the hull will become - but even an old fuel soaked hull is not likely to be able to make-up for the weight difference of a LiPo pack compared to a tank of fuel, so perhaps electric power systems naturally weigh more than i.c. power-packs?

The balance of the hull changes as fuel is burnt in an ic powered boat and the few tank level goes down, but the balance of an electric powered boat will remain constant from the start of the run to the and of the run (as long as the LiPo packs don't shift during the run!) so we have some advantages when running an electric powered boat - including comparatively "clean power"..........and more of it!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 10, 2021, 08:51:32 pm
It may be that my Magnum GP 40 was on the lighter side anyway as it was for air rather than water and the starter wheel seems to be Aluminium?!


Anyway it looks like my setup will have similar masses in the front.


Having done so much (for me) over the weekend, I couldn’t resist a bit more destruction! I decided to open up bulkhead B2 to get a window on the forward internal state of the hull. It looks ok up there. I shall add a 4mm thick face to it possibly leaving a hole to allow ballast / access if needed. I’ll see what happens. B2 doesn’t touch the skin very much hence my intent to add my own version aft of it to add some structural support here. Don’t know if it was my poor original construction?


Having cut the hole in B2 and turned it over I found the stamp and a pencil annotation J B2 (possibly referencing its for the Javelin?).







Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 10, 2021, 10:35:39 pm
Did you whittle that out with your knife Stuw?   {-) 

I saw the top picture first and thought you were going to have a pair of brown curtains across the opening :embarrassed:

Chopping a hatch in that front bulkhead is something I have always been tempted to do in my restoration projects - mainly because I have no idea what could be lurking inside those hidden voids!

Keep up the good work................
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 11, 2021, 05:48:35 pm
I have made a bit more progress on my Javelin restoration.

The underside has had its first coat of red gloss paint on it and its small "fruit box style" stand also received a coat of the same red paint.

The original front and rear hatch covers were beautifully painted in yellow and look like they have been clear epoxy coated - a beautiful finish that I could never hope to match, but I pulled the decals off and abraded the surface ready for a colour change when I noticed that they did not fit in the way that I would like them to, so I have started to make a new rear hatch cover and will no doubt make a new front cover too, but I have this original pair that I can use when I am testing the hull if my replacements are not ready in time (or if I don't make a very good job of them!).

I think I will be fitting the motor, LiPo tray, rear steering servo mount and ESC tray next so I can continue to fit-out the boat as I get some paint on the outside.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 11, 2021, 06:11:08 pm
Good progress Bob! My hatches didn’t fit well enough either so I will be making new ones although I took the original ones apart. I may just need a new skin on top as the bases are ok. Reuse the original good quality plywood.


I will try to get back to mine later in the week/weekend. Once I get my second motor brace cut down I can start to sort out the alignment and go from there. Need to remove paint from the sides and a bit more off the top. Oh yes and get the strakes on! And rudder and cooling input and outputs. Basically I’ve got LOADS to get on with...still.  %%
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 11, 2021, 06:16:34 pm
Did you whittle that out with your knife Stuw?   {-) 

I saw the top picture first and thought you were going to have a pair of brown curtains across the opening :embarrassed:

Chopping a hatch in that front bulkhead is something I have always been tempted to do in my restoration projects - mainly because I have no idea what could be lurking inside those hidden voids!

Keep up the good work................


I resorted to powered multi tool which worked well after I had drilled a couple of messy holes in it for an initial look. I discovered that I’d sealed some polystyrene loose in there!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 11, 2021, 06:52:35 pm

I resorted to powered multi tool which worked well after I had drilled a couple of messy holes in it for an initial look. I discovered that I’d sealed some polystyrene loose in there!


Multi-tools are really handy bits of kit...........its a shame that my Makita is so chunky and heavy - the mains lead is thicker than the power cable that connects our home to the national grid!


When we were digging-out the drive to replace the worn tarmac, we actually dug-up the main power supply cable to our house - and the lead on the Makita multi-tool was genuinely thicker!

A small rechargeable version would be very useful and could easily become a very well used power tool.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 11, 2021, 07:57:06 pm
This was a duplicated copy of the pervious comment that has been made by mistake (not sure how) but I am off to the shed now to make a start on a replacement rear  hatch cover. :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 11, 2021, 09:03:13 pm
It was a tight squeeze getting my cordless Bosch 10.8 Li in there. I only managed it as I was able to push it horizontally through bulkhead B3 as that had a nice large opening already from when the fuel tank resided in the midsection and the floor above it wasn’t removable.


Useful tool for some hard to access DIY but very noisy for what it does!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: SteamboatPhil on May 11, 2021, 09:45:17 pm
Good  (I and I do mean good---ie no well know German shop outlets ) Flexidrive for Dremel  multi tools is a must in my humble opinion, brilliant piece of kit  :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on May 12, 2021, 09:27:26 am
3" brush in the bodyshop.........!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 12, 2021, 10:57:26 am
The pandemic and the various lock-downs and self-isolating periods has made changes to our lifestyle for all of us, and one of them has been the need to have the supermarket shopping delivered each week.

........and this in turn has meant that the opportunity to pick-up the occasional fruit box (to use as a temporary support for any new build or restoration project) has not been so easy to acquire.

The solution is to use the well tried and tested design of the classic fruit box shape and (more or less) copy it.

To be honest I have been making "fruit box" shaped stands for my model boats ever since I started making them back in the early 1960s as I find this simple basic shape to be very practical and ideal for my needs.

The low shape is easy to transport in the car, stable when supporting a powerboat, and also allows some "oddments" (such as a small tool or spare props etc) to be carried under the boat inside the stand - and this can reduce the number of trips from the car to the waters edge.

I have made a lot of these fruit box style of stands over the years (one for every boat) and I have usually been able to make them from scrap or re-claimed wood so the cost is as high as the skill needed to made them!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on May 12, 2021, 11:23:39 am
Hello Tony and Zooma


The boat is looking great and is going to be a beast on the water .


The boat stand is about the same style that I use, but I use 19mm door stoppers.


I change to 4mm stick on strips for the vee sections because I had to replace the sanding pad on my sander.


I had a lot for pieces left over and do not require nine spare pads as I only replaced the first pad after 30 years !!!


Canabus
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 12, 2021, 06:15:31 pm
Original 1990s fruitbox back in the day. I shall make a proper wooden stand for the Javelin this time...


That’s when the paint scheme was newly applied.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on May 12, 2021, 06:33:22 pm
A better lid.......possibly in the pink?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 12, 2021, 07:42:02 pm
The pictures show the rear hatch cover being made.  I clamped the formers to the bulkheads in the boat as the glue holding them to the base plate was drying.(picture 3).

The Javelins angled rear deck gave the front former quite a steep angle away from the usual 90 degrees so I thought the easiest/best way to get this right would be to let the joint dry whilst it was clamped in situ. I used masking tape as a "hinge" to hold the parts together until they were set.

After the joints had dried, I cut a centre spar and a pair of sides to fit and help keep the angled front former in place.(picture 1).

A one piece 1.5mm plywood skin was cut to shape and formed over this structure to make the cover and this was held in place to dry with as many small clamps as I could find until the aliphatic glue had set.(not pictured).

Also shown is the start of a new front hatch cover.(picture 2).  The front and rear formers are already glued in place on the baseplate and I will make a central spar and some sides for it tonight so I can glue a ply skin over it as soon as they are secure.

The hull has also gained its first layer of undercoat to the deck and hull sides - the underside has already had its first coat of red gloss following two coats of pink undercoat.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 13, 2021, 06:43:13 pm
Nice work Bob.  :-))


I’ve had some progress this afternoon, but it was a case of two steps forward.....


I’ve managed to sort out the motor mount and rough alignment with the propeller shaft ready for bonding in. I had purchased a rigid coupling to help align before switching to the flexible one. However my fixed coupling isn’t straight! Ie holes at each end aren’t centred, so it’s of no use at all  >>:-(


I am eyeballing it instead  :o   Connected all the electrics up and got my son to pull the trigger whilst I held motor and prop tube in place. Wow it’s going to be fast! I think....


On the down side my Javelin took a tumble and landed nose first on the carpet! Broken off the rubbing strip!  >>:-(   Any good ideas on how to fix this effectively?


I’m thinking I’ll need to remove a reasonable section and replace it. A bit annoying as the strip was in good shape!


Never mind... shouldn’t have propped it up where I did.  Little voice in my head said it wasn’t the best idea!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 13, 2021, 07:22:44 pm
Your motor plate and mounting system make mine look positively puny  - really heavy section and well executed.

Regarding the rubbing strip damage at the bows - I have had the same problem to fix on my Javelin and Rapier2 - they both came with similar damage and is also the sort of typical damage that you may experience in the future if you get to use your Javelin every week and suffer a similar bump.

Cutting the broken length of wood back to a solid piece at 90 degrees, but also at an angle (going inwards) will double the surface area for the bond joint rather than having a straight butt joint.

If you are using aliphatic for this, the water content also helps the wood to comply with the slight bending and again the angled joint gives a more secure anchor for this stage of the operation,

If you pre-drill the position for your brass nails (using a drill smaller than the nail shaft) it will help to prevent any splitting towards either end of the wood as the nail will help to keep the new wood in place as the glue dries.

Chop off the head of the nails when they are about  3/4's  in and then drive the shaft in flat to the surface.  The end of the shaft may well clinch over slightly and this will also help to retain it.  If you leave the nails heads on, they have a nasty habit of creeping back out in future years and becoming an eyesore.

 Sadly most of the s/h boats that I have to work on came with brass nail heads that have not been chopped off during construction 
>>:-( 

If the rest of the rubbing strip is dodgy - pull it all off and replace it with a fresh 1/8"  x  1/4" hardwood strip.  (I use obechie because it is easy to work with).


Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: mrzippy on May 13, 2021, 07:59:32 pm
Hope you guys are up to speed with your Tx sticks !  Lol.
you have serious horse power in this model, way more than its earlier ic. incarnation, I suspect its going to fly - literally !!

My 33" Swordsman's brushless is a fraction of the size and power of your Javelin's motor, yet easily faster than its original 40 glow -
it managed to eat a stock prop tube's plain brass bearings after a couple of runs,
replaced with a race spec ball raced top end, lead teflon bottom end version which seems ok to date.

Paul
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 13, 2021, 08:27:30 pm
Bob,


Thanks for that guidance for the rubbing strip repair. I did utter a few choice words but in the grand scheme of work to be done it’s minor!


Paul,


Thanks for the info. I am only planning to run this on 2S but have 2 batteries to offer endurance. At 1900kV that should give me about 14000 rpm no load and I’ll likely limit max output via the Tx. As my mount base will be screwed into the bracing ribs, it will be removable. Should this power plant prove too much, I’ll probably swap it out for an outrunner of lower kV. I’m planning to use a 5mm shaft with brass bearings only so I won’t go higher on the rpm (to start with  :} )


Regarding your Swordsman, I take it that’s the one that won an award on another thread on here? Looks great! Very tidy and neat inside. Did you use white plastic for caulk effect and use cherry on the deck (I’ve read it somewhere on here I think?) Getting ideas for another build but have never planked.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 13, 2021, 08:45:20 pm
Hope you guys are up to speed with your Tx sticks !  Lol.
you have serious horse power in this model, way more than its earlier ic. incarnation, I suspect its going to fly - literally !!

My 33" Swordsman's brushless is a fraction of the size and power of your Javelin's motor, yet easily faster than its original 40 glow -
it managed to eat a stock prop tube's plain brass bearings after a couple of runs,
replaced with a race spec ball raced top end, lead teflon bottom end version which seems ok to date.

Paul
 


Hi Paul,

I have been running Rapier1 (same hull as the Javelin) with similar power (maybe more?) for over a year now, it is good and fast but I have had no problems running it with a plain bearing M5 shaft.

The shaft was taken out at the end of last season and checked to find that it had zero wear - no play whatsoever.  I was surprised and (almost) disappointed as I have two sets of spare M5 bearings ready to drift in and use if the originals start to show any signs of play.

The shaft was put back into the tube with some fresh flexi-shaft type marine grease and I will check it again at the end of another seasons running.

The only problems I have had with premature wear on a plain bearing shaft is when running the smaller M4 size of shaft and not using a good quality marine grease to make sure it is never allowed to run dry.

The smaller M4 shaft can "whip" when given too much power and this can also cause accentuated bearing wear.   The same problem can occur when using an over-long shaft and is why I never have any excess shaft inside the engine bay.

A ball-raced shaft needs checking carefully if it is being used with a high speed brushless motor.  I prefer to use a good quality plain bearings M5 shaft for this purpose - every time!

My fast craft that run with flexi-shafts need to be stripped and re-greased after ever session.
 
Using an M5 stainless steel shaft with plain phosphor bronze bearings should be safe (when kept clean and lubricated with the correct type of marine grease) for use with the fast brushless motors that we are using (or going to use) in our Javelin hulls.

I hope to be running my Aerokits Swordsman later this year with this same sort of brushless power and a plain bearing M5 shaft.  The Rapier is a bigger boat, so I will check to make sure I only use as much power as I need in the Swordsman.

Stay safe,

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 14, 2021, 10:26:49 am
I managed to finish making the replacement front hatch cover last night, and the fit is not too bad, so I just need to trim the side over-hang on both of the new hatch covers and they should look a little better than the ones that came with the model when I bought it.

Thinking a bit more about the prop shafts, I remember replacing a ball race on a prop shaft many years ago and was pleasantly surprised at the choice and wide variety of optional replacement bearings.

The variety of available high speed bearings and different types of "zero friction" shielding etc from specialist bearing suppliers was quite an eye opener and should make it possible to fit a bearing that is more than capable of handling our brushless motors if the original bearing should suffer from any wear.

Maybe currently available ball-raced prop shafts come with high speed bearings as standard?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: mrzippy on May 14, 2021, 11:03:40 am
Good to hear you are fully aware of any transmission issues, as Bob rightly states mine suffered shaft whip.
To add some background history if I may - the model was a new build way back in 2009 as an experiment into brushless in a boat,
outrunners becoming common place in aero's, but shrouded in mystery - we weren't aware of KV's? etc and only used Nimh's,
Lipo's were considered a black art and were to be avoided at all costs they might expolde !!

I jumped in blissfully unaware with what seemed huge at the time, a purple Overlander Thumper 42x50 600kv, using 2 packs of 7 cell Nimh's,
Graupner 40/42mm 2 blade race props and it was a huge dissapointment - no speed due to lack of revs.
I was advised to fit the biggest 4 blade Prop Shop brass steam prop I could squeeze in, a 50mm and it made a huge difference,
the outrunner having lots of torque to swing a chunky prop.

Realising more revs were required (inrunners weren't around in those days) I ftted a 42x40 1050kv outrunner and this made a huge difference,
equally as quick as a my old OS40 glow Swordsman, and this was the (tiny motor by modern standards) motor that blew the bearings -
hence my concerns for the beasts you guys are now fitting.

I did eventually work out my original 42x50 600kv outrunner produced just over 1hp,
the hot OS40 on a pipe would just about manage .8hp, I dread to think how much power you guys are packing into your Javelins?
its giving me ideas about electrifying my old ic. 40" offshore Gancia that's very similar to a Javelin.

Stuw re planking - Swordsman's cherry with white holly caulking and 1.5x Sea Hornet is spruce with white plastic,
I recommend going all wood because plastic strips will not sand easily and require scrapping with a cabinet scraper (large snap off knife blade)
to make them flush.
You spend hours sanding away to a nice level surface, pause and the plastic seems to spring back up above the surrounding timber !
please ask any questions, happy to pass on my experiences.

regards Paul



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 14, 2021, 04:15:57 pm
Hi Paul,

Thanks for sharing your experiences of powering your Swordsman with brushless motors and for making the comparison with the same model when it was powered by your OS40.  I also ran an Aerokits Swordsman with an OS40 Marine for a while before switching to a Merco 61 (twin plug) Blackhead but to be honest the OS 40 was a really good performer and it ran nicely too!

I found your thread really interesting to read as the only (very limited) knowledge that I have with brushless motors has been gained from using them in my own models and by observing how well others have performed (or failed to perform) in their r/c boats.

My previous experience with ic engines is remembered fondly,  and although I wish that it was still possible to run ic powered boats just about anywhere (as we were able to do "in the good old days"),  I have to admit that running r/c boats with the latest generation of brushless motors is a lot less hassle, and we suffer from no loss of performance!

You were one of the "pioneers" of running brushless motors in r/c model boats and so your early  experiences with your Swordsman are well worth sharing here.....and your Gancia is only an inch longer that a Javelin so it would be good to compare results if you do decide to re-fit it and get it going under brushless power!

Enjoy your weekend,

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on May 14, 2021, 05:09:00 pm
Front Hatch stuff......
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 14, 2021, 05:27:54 pm
Paul,


Thanks for all that info on your pioneering brushless power. Also for the info on planking. I’ve got ideas for a future project so may well PM you in the future if that’s ok?


Bob,


Your front hatch looks a great fit.  :-))


Meanwhile back in my workshop, I’ve been slowly progressing with the motor mount. To allow the motor and it’s water cooled mounting to be completely removable (should I deem it too overpowered) I have added some M4 marine stainless bolts into threaded inserts.  Once the brace ribs are bonded in and the motor mount bonded to its 9mm ply baseplate, I can still unscrew the 4 bolts and remove the motor quite quickly.


I am also deciding to beef up the rudder tube support by adding some ply blocks. Made out of some offcuts of my 12mm brace rib wood.


None of it bonded in but making steady progress.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 14, 2021, 05:38:57 pm
Stuw - your Javelin will be Nukeproof by the time you have finished reinforcing it so substantially.


Even the rudder shaft should be able to withstand a first wave strike  {-)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 14, 2021, 05:50:54 pm
Indeed  %%   Thanks for pointing me towards the chunky plywood. I’m getting a bit carried away with it!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 15, 2021, 10:07:55 pm
Indeed  %%   Thanks for pointing me towards the chunky plywood. I’m getting a bit carried away with it!


You might need somebody to help you carry the boat if you get too carried away with the use of heavy weight ply reinforcement  O0


.........it does look good though........
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 17, 2021, 05:33:50 pm
A bit more progress over the last couple of days.  %%


Managed to bond in the brace ribs for the LIPO tray and then once set, removed the tray and built the side supports.
Bonded in the supports for the ESC and rudder servo mount.
Once dry removed servo plate and cut hole for servo.
Rudder support sanded and chamfered slightly and then glued in.
Rudder servo in and linkages set up
Rudder travel limited to about 30 degrees for the moment


Placed an order for some more birch ply of various thicknesses for the hatch covers and replacement rubbing strip section. As the delivery cost was quite high I decided to order a load more for Javelin 2! (Hot off the press - Javelin 2 may become a Rapier!!)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 17, 2021, 08:09:04 pm
Another Rapier ?

That will be cool - a new member of the Rapier fleet will be very welcome and nice to see.  :-))


There were a lot of Javelins sold, and the breed continued under the Streaker name, but not so many Rapiers were ever sold and so it did not have its production continued in the same way.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 21, 2021, 03:13:54 pm
I finally finished making both the replacement front and rear hatch covers yesterday and the fit is not too bad - well a little  better than the under-sized ones that came with it - but they were beautifully painted - and mine probably won't be!

I am not sure whether to add any air intake scoops to the front hatch cover (or cab sides) and ventilation slots or louvers to the rear cover.......or just leave them plain?

Maybe I should take a look at some pictures of some real off-shore powerboats from the 1960-70 time period and see if I can pick up any ideas from them?

Some Javelin models have lumps on the rear hatch (not sure what these are supposed to be) and a large central scoop on the front hatch. The front scoop that was fitted to this one looked OK and had the inlet vents on the sides (rather than open at the front) to help prevent any unwanted water getting scooped up in rough water.

I don't think I need any working air intakes with the water-cooled brushless motor mounts and w/c ESC - but they may look better than leaving the hatch covers plain.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on May 21, 2021, 03:27:47 pm
Hatches complete!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 21, 2021, 03:52:46 pm
I finally finished making both the replacement front and rear hatch covers yesterday and the fit is not too bad - well a little  better than the under-sized ones that came with it - but they were beautifully painted - and mine probably won't be!

I am not sure whether to add any air intake scoops to the front hatch cover (or cab sides) and ventilation slots or louvers to the rear cover.......or just leave them plain?

Maybe I should take a look at some pictures of some real off-shore powerboats from the 1960-70 time period and see if I can pick up any ideas from them?

Some Javelin models have lumps on the rear hatch (not sure what these are supposed to be) and a large central scoop on the front hatch. The front scoop that was fitted to this one looked OK and had the inlet vents on the sides (rather than open at the front) to help prevent any unwanted water getting scooped up in rough water.

I don't think I need any working air intakes with the water-cooled brushless motor mounts and w/c ESC - but they may look better than leaving the hatch covers plain.


They look a very good fit to me.


The rear lumps are dummy vents for an engine in the rear I’m guessing. The are streamlined at the front but just solid blocks of wood. They also feature on the Lesro Arrow where some have reversed them to make them intakes. On my version as per the box art photo they are solid dummies.


When I was in the early stages of thinking about what to do with my restoration I thought about emulating something like the attached photo. The vents are more shaped. Was thinking of highlighting them with trim tape or similar.

The front hatch intake was open to let air into my engine bay. I did however drill an exit hole for my exhaust on the side and opened up the front cabin to get more air in for my modified glow motor. Never had any water in there from memory as the bow was up at speed!


I like the dummy vents as they add a little feature to the shape but too much detail would be lost once they are moving at speed!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 21, 2021, 10:44:21 pm

This evening I have been trying to work out the best route for the water cooling system in the Javelin.

The water outlet that was fitted in the old hull when I bought it was mounted very high (just under the deck) and the previous owner had cut the plastic water tube off more or less in line with the end of the brass outlet pipe before he sold it so I needed to remove it and fit a new longer length - or that is what I thought I would be able to do!

As this part of the hull is hidden behind the inside wall that runs between the bulkheads, it was almost impossible to reach up inside to touch the remains of the pipe and tube  - never mind pull it off of the nipple and fit a new length of tubing to connect from the water-cooled motor mount!

The solution was to drill the old brass outlet tube out and plug the hole with some tight fitting dowel.

A small section of the inside wall was cut away so that I could reach inside to bond the dowel plug in place.  A new outlet position was then drilled in the more normal (mid hull side) position and the cut-away was shaped to make it easy to fit or remove any water tubing to a new outlet nipple in the future!

This job took far longer than it should have done as I spent far too long trying to pull the old length of tube off of the outlet pipe whilst reaching in-between the side skin and the inner wall before I gave up and realised that it would be far better to make this outlet pipe easy to access in the future by chopping out a small section of the inner side wall.

Some jobs just eat up the hours  - one of the joys of restoring old boats!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on May 22, 2021, 11:13:00 am
Not only when restoring old boats but when building new ones as well Bob!

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on May 22, 2021, 02:13:22 pm
Water, water everywhere........except where you want it %)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 22, 2021, 03:12:15 pm
The first picture shows the original high position of the water outlet - I couldn't reach up in-between the side wall and the side skin enough to remove the old tube and fit a new length so I plugged it and drilled a new one a little lower and a bit easier to get to.


The new cut-out in the inner side wall allows easy access to the new position water outlet and gave me enough space to plug up the original hole too.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 23, 2021, 09:52:44 pm
I had an old tin of Leyland non-drip gloss paint in a nice bright red colour that had been lurking in the garage for at least a few years, and it still had some paint left inside it, so last night I decided to paint the inner surfaces of the hatch and cockpit openings with it as I thought it may look OK.

I got carried away...the next thing I know is that I started to paint the cabin...and then the decks....and then the hull sides.......so now I have a red boat!

The initial thought was that this was only some old paint (and the tin had been opened many years ago), so it would make a nice first gloss coat over the pink undercoat that could be rubbed-down when dry - ready to give it a nice finish with some decent paint!

As I was painting the hull some of the paint came out a bit thicker than it should (old paint!) and it took a bit more brush work to smooth this jelly-like paint out enough to look less lumpy.  At that stage I wish I hadn't started!

This morning I was half afraid to go out to the shed (workshop) and see what I had done!

As I (somewhat apprehensively)  looked around the door, the boat did not look anything like as bad as I expected it to look, and as I checked it over it really was not "too bad", so I think I will leave it until after the initial water testing is completed and see what I think about it then.  This delay will also give the paint plenty of time to harden-up so I can sand it back with fine sandpaper (or wet and dry paper perhaps) to improve the surface.....

I did note that the the instructions on the tin suggested that this paint should not be stirred - so I didnt.....but it is old paint so maybe I should have given it a good stirring, and perhaps that would have also mixed-in the thicker paint that I scooped-up on the brush from time to time?

This is a nice bright coloured paint and I think it could look good on the Javelin, so another thought that I have it that maybe I could add a little white spirit to "refresh" this old paint little and after a good stirring it may be good enough to use again.

Has anyone had any success in trying to revive old non-drip gloss paint in this way?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 26, 2021, 05:34:43 pm
As a change from the Turnigy 3648-1459 out-runner that I have been using in Rapier1 (same hull as the Javelin) I would like to try a Surpass in-runner as I have been very impressed with the performance of the ProBoats that run with in-runners and I would like to see how well an in-runner (with a comparable diameter can to the Turnigy) would perform in my Javelin hull.

I have a choice of three different Surpass in-runners and any advice from users of in-runners like these would be appreciated.  I am using a standard size alloy water-cooled motor mount, so changing from one type to another (including out-runners to in-runners) would not require any changes to the hull or the mountings.

The power from the Turnigy out-runner is very impressive but the run times are about 7 minutes from a 5500mah 55C 2 cell pack, and I would like to see if I can get a reasonable performance from an in-runner but with an improved run time.

The following 36 series Surpass in-runner choices are available for me to try:-

Surpass 3764 - 1580KV.
Surpass 3764 - 1900KV.
Surpass 3764 - 2250KV.

I have found that there is very little performance difference when using S55, X55, S50 or X50 propellers on the Turnigy 3648-1450 motor, but guess that an in-runner could be a little more sensitive to prop changes due to not having so much torque?

Any advice from those that have run comparable in-runners in hulls this sort of size (39") would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on May 27, 2021, 09:52:44 am
Sorry about the delay!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on May 27, 2021, 01:17:30 pm
Hi Zooma


The 3648-1450kv works better on 3S and is a beast on 4S !!!
Try series up the 2S batteries if the ESC can handle it and drop to a 40mm prop to start with.


Canabus
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on May 27, 2021, 02:46:24 pm
Hey Bob that’s distinctive red paint! If I got my finger out and finished my Javelin I could give you some useful data on the inrunner that I have at 1900kV!  {-)



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 27, 2021, 10:59:02 pm
Hi Zooma


The 3648-1450kv works better on 3S and is a beast on 4S !!!
Try series up the 2S batteries if the ESC can handle it and drop to a 40mm prop to start with.


Canabus


Thanks Harry,

The 3648 is almost the same diameter as the 3864 but is quite a bit shorter?  I don't know what sort of difference that will make?

I will try the closest size that I have to yours (3864- 1580KV) on an S40 prop to start with and see how it goes. I hope it will run well enough and (with some luck) it will give me longer run times than I get with the Turnigy in Rapier1 (same hull).

I bought the 3864-2250KV motor on your recommendation some time back as a rival for the Turnigy 3648-1450 out-runner (as it is no loner available) to use as an alternative "powerhouse" motor that may be able to rival the out-runner for outright speed. 

At the time these motors were only £20 each so I bought one a month so I have the three sizes mentioned to see what works best in the Javelin and they will also have future homes in the Swordsman and Rapier2. With some luck I will find one that will be best suited to each hull.

The Turnigy out-runner goes really well on a two cell pack making it fast enough for our club lake and really "interesting" on three cells and likes running on a S50 or an X50 prop - but to be honest it makes little or no difference what prop I try with this motor in Rapier1 - it just goes!

Do you have any suggestions regarding propeller sizes (to start with) for the three new motors driving the 39" LesRo hulls?

3674-2250KV......

3674-1900KV.....

3674-1580KV..........S40  ?

Enjoy your weekend!

Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 27, 2021, 11:07:01 pm
Hey Bob that’s distinctive red paint! If I got my finger out and finished my Javelin I could give you some useful data on the inrunner that I have at 1900kV!  {-)


All you need is an old tin of non-drip paint and a 6" paintbrush and you could be ready to run in no time   O0
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Backerther on May 28, 2021, 09:21:34 am
Hi zooma;


You have been doing very good jobs so far with Lesro Javelin and I feel you are facing very serious matters of what to select
for the drive system for the essentially important points for the RCed higher boat.
Here are the pics of my way for my Jupiter F-99(1m long) which is nearly the same length as yours of 39 inch long.
I put here the pictures of my combinations of drive system for the JupiterF-99 only for your reference.
She is a semi-scale cabin cruiser and therefore not intended for speed-seeking boat at all, but intended for a compatible speed with her graceful appearance.!! O0 %%
1;As for the motor,capable of producing 2200 KV and 1200watts
2;The batteries are 3S 5000mAh class by which she is able to run about/over 15 minutes each and  have 4-6 packs.
3;I could enjoy the sailing with these batteries nearly a day including chatting times with some fellow modelers.. {-) O0
4/5;The prop is 46mm dia with P1.4 perhaps???which I'm not sure.. {:-{
6;She could go on the rough surface of the lake by the north wind in the -mid winter like this. O0
7;My Jupiter cruising on a calm surface in a certain December..


Please feel the sailing scene and atmosphere by the following video,though the speed is not so fast but I am satisfied with this level as she is not a racer but a queen of the lake at this time.!! {-)


taka's model boat **Mr SKG's JUPITER 2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq6P0JV0TdU)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 28, 2021, 05:58:29 pm
Thanks Backerther - that gives me a starting point for the 2250mah motor - I will try a 45mm prop first on 3 cells and see how it goes.
Stay safe,
Bob.
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on June 04, 2021, 09:01:11 pm
As I was manhandling the stand for the Javelin around in the air during my efforts to paint it (brush in one hand - stand in the other) I clouted the back end of the Javelin cabin side and snapped it off!  >:-o

I have glued it back on again and added a couple of brass pins to strengthen the repair.

It is not easy to move about without unintentionally bumping into something now and again in such a small shed(workshop) as mine, and I am usually lucky enough to get away with it - but not this time!

As I have not finished painting the stand yet (!)  I have also added some brass pins to the other side.............because you never know.....
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: tonyH on June 05, 2021, 09:40:37 am
While painting the Stand?
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on June 05, 2021, 10:10:13 am
How embarrassing!  <:(
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on June 05, 2021, 01:09:12 pm
At least you are busy working on your boat. Mine hasn’t succumbed to any recent self inflicted damage as I’ve been busy doing other things. I did manage to drop mine on the floor and break off the rubbing strip point at the front a few weeks ago!


Yours will be like new again soon. One does feel daft though!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on June 05, 2021, 01:47:37 pm
Thanks Stuw - you make me feel a little bit better !   :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on July 05, 2021, 09:50:39 pm
I have completed the repair of my self-inflicted damage so I can now look forward to making some more progress !

The motor mount has been fixed into the hull with the water-cooled alloy motor mount to keep my motor options open for the future.

As a matter of interest, Harry let me know that the Turnigy 3648-1450 is now available again from Hobby King :-))

I have checked, and they have them here in their UK stock too!

This is a monster power motor  - and not expensive either. It will shove the Javelin along at least as quickly as it does in my Rapier on 2C and on 3C it will probably grow a pair of horns and at 4C...................it will be very fast!

.............just a thought - if you have enough water to take advantage of it.

Unfortunately our water at Southport is too small to make good use of this motor (even on 2C) and is why I am running the smaller (slower) Surpass motor at the moment  -  and to be courteous to the other club members who don't want their nice scale models being swamped in my wake! 

But, I have been known to go to the lake on a non-club day when the taps can be opened-up without causing any problems or upsetting anyone, and then it is only the size of the lake that can become the restricting factor !   O0
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 22, 2022, 11:39:05 am
Linking to Stiletto thread that has some handy photos of the bulkhead and kit parts.

https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67864.0;attach=219118 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67864.0;attach=219118)

https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67864.0;attach=219119 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67864.0;attach=219119)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on February 23, 2022, 10:04:43 pm
Link to some bulkhead plans:


https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67864.0;attach=219157 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67864.0;attach=219157)



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Andy M on February 25, 2022, 07:22:01 am
Spot on.😁
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on March 25, 2022, 06:54:23 pm
I recently spent quite some time looking for a bigger, good quality double servo arm for one of my builds (Swordsman) and some 2mm/3mm ball-end connecters. Found what I wanted in the end and fortunately found and bought the Fastrax servo arm.

If only I'd written down in my notebook, which I usually do, the items linked to by Stu and Bob, about 12 months ago I would have saved myself some time and determined searching! Doh!

The servo arm (single and double and ball-end connecters) are now my go to items and I have a few in stock.

Interesting that there was also mention of a Javelin fitted with an outboard as well, albeit a now defunct EBay link.

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on March 26, 2022, 04:34:16 pm
You should have asked me to search my inbox of purchases! There is some great stuff on here but it gets buried in pages of info so takes some concerted digging!


The Javelin with outboard I spotted on EBay USA if I recall and shipping to UK was pretty steep obviously. The seller didn’t know what it wasn’t but I spotted the distinctive Javelin lines!
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on March 26, 2022, 05:02:43 pm
Hi Stu

Yes there is. Trouble is you forget what there is sometimes, which is why I usually make a note of things. I really like those servo arms.

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on March 27, 2022, 11:44:55 am



Hi Chris,

This UK model shop has a very good range of alloy servo arms to fit just about every make, size and type of servo and usually delivers "next day".

The reason for such a good choice is their involvement in large scale model car racing where servo arms tend to come under a lot more pressure than they would in less strenuous applications and they have a 35 year + experience of what works and fits to share with us.


I like to fit alloy servo arms because they look good, and it is nice to have a proper engineered "fit" to the servo output splines.

........but it is also good to know that they are not likely to break!  :-))


https://www.kingcobra.co.uk/search.asp?keyword=Servo&sortby=0&page=2&catid= (https://www.kingcobra.co.uk/search.asp?keyword=Servo&sortby=0&page=2&catid=)
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on March 27, 2022, 03:11:54 pm
Thanks Bob


I see they have the Fastrax ones which are my standard servo arms now. I use Hitec servos and when I was searching previously I struggled to find much for the 24T splines before I came across the Fastrax ones.


Whilst the plastic ones are strong enough for many of my applications, as you say it is good to have a nicely engineered solution when you can.


Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on April 16, 2022, 09:20:38 pm
With the summer coming and weekends away in the van, I don’t think the workshop (shed) will be seeing too much activity until later in the year.
Now is the time to enjoy the boats that have taken the time to build and restore and to get out and enjoy seeing them perform on the water.
I have plenty of projects to keep me busy over the winter, and a few that need minor time to complete, so I will try to get them finished to leave a clear bench ready to start building again at the end of the year.
Happy sailing!



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on April 22, 2022, 08:42:23 pm
Happy Sailing!  :-))
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on April 23, 2022, 09:14:55 am
Happy Sailing!  :-))


Thanks Stuw.
The Rapier will be out on the club lake tomorrow 👍
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: Stuw on April 24, 2023, 10:58:38 am
Well just over a year since my last post on here and I’ve been revisiting the info on here.


I haven’t done anything on the boat in that time. It’s buried under all sorts on my (non) workbench. All I need is some time...or to make time for it.


What brought me here again?  eBay search highlighted another Graupner Pegasus 3 - so I did a search on here and reminded myself why not to go for it. Massive, tricky kit with poor parts. At 1.2m long and recalling my wife stating no more boats to cross the threshold any time soon, I decided to not enter a bid!


But I prefer a smaller wooden project so should get back to my favourite Lesro models (snuck in a Lesro Sportsman unbuilt kit and I think I got away with it - save that for the future).

[/size]Perhaps in the next year I shall make time to sort out my Javelins? Can’t guarantee it though...[size=78%]
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on April 24, 2023, 11:12:07 am
The Lesro Sportsman (original type) has so far eluded me, but an unbuilt kit would be really tempting!


I hope you get away with it and you are able to build it without your wife seeing it  %%
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on April 24, 2023, 12:49:23 pm
Hi Stuw


I have been looking for a Sportsman for a few years, but, the only ones I found had no Global Postage.


Would you PDF the plans, please ???


I just ended up with 300 model boat plans, some on PDF and others on paper.
Some of the paper plans are going take a some time as the paper is very old and has been folded for years.
E.G. Original Aerokits plans !!! 


Started on a database which is my winter project !!!
106 on the database so far.


Harry

Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: ChrisF on April 24, 2023, 01:17:47 pm
The Sportsman's a nice little model and I might be tempted at some point myself. Plans would be great, if they don't show the bulkheads I can soon draw those up.

Be interesting to see what's on the list Harry. You will have a good collection with those and the ones you've already got.

Now sit down lads, I've actually got the RC installation in one of my builds! It's in the Huntress with the stern-drive and I'm really interested to see how it performs. Will try it before I finish the superstructure.

Chris
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on April 24, 2023, 04:40:46 pm
I don't believe it  %%
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: madwelshman on April 28, 2023, 01:05:35 pm

I just ended up with 300 model boat plans, some on PDF and others on paper.
Some of the paper plans are going take a some time as the paper is very old and has been folded for years.
E.G. Original Aerokits plans !!! 


Started on a database which is my winter project !!!
106 on the database so far.


Harry




300 plans, wow, that going to be some list Harry.
Well done though.


Will
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: zooma on May 03, 2023, 06:06:43 pm



300 plans, wow, that going to be some list Harry.
Well done though.


Will




Harry has got almost as many plans as you have got model boats stashed away Will  O0



Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: madwelshman on May 05, 2023, 10:46:21 pm
I think Harry has me beaten there Bob, on both his plans and boats  {:-{


Will
Title: Re: Lesro Javelin
Post by: canabus on May 06, 2023, 10:07:44 am
Hi Ewe GuysI have added to my small fleet a Billings Nordkap, ProBoat 40" PT109 and got back my Sea Commander(Sparky).But, Sparky is in very poor health and has been to the strippers( no knot those ones) !!!Hull repainted and adding a planking deck.The cabin floor has had the same upgrade with wood panel doors.Another poor posting on E Bay(NO OVERSEA POSTING) so no Nor-Star wave Crest.Checking out a Nor-Star Wave Princess, but it's in very poor condition.