Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: jpdenver on November 22, 2020, 03:17:50 am
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Greetings from this side of the pond.
9 Months ago we got locked up.
I am thinking that all you folks in the UK got locked up too!
Not sure about all of those in the southern hemisphere.
Anyway - I have been a fan of Marten, Howes and Baylis (MH&B) for a long time.
Unfortunately, the kits I wanted to build, The Seekadett and Vigilant are no longer in production.
I have found a Topaz to build, (it was logged in the Steam Forum), but no others.
In early March, I logged into the Marten and Howes website and found a new craft, Project X.
Love at first sight. Unique. Sleek. Smooth Lines. Price was on the expensive side, but doable.
Then I noticed that the Steam Plant was from Martin Baylis Engineering.
When I contacted Martin,I had to gulp at the price - 2900 GBP. That's $3800 in $USD. Not at all in my budget.
So, I thought about it for a little while and then reached out to Brian Marten and Liz Howes.
I asked them if anyone had done an electric variant of the Project X.
At that time there were only 5 in existence. and as far as they knew - all were steam.
However, they had been having some inquiries about Electric Drive, so were open to discussing it.
At this point, let me show you some pictures of the original Project X.
These pictures were sent to me from Liz Howes, and are some of the ones from their website.
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HI jpdenver
I see reason the boat could be made electric !!!
A 35mm motor under a steam look a like motor.
Speed controller in the boiler and Lipo battery and radio in the cabin.
Lovely looking boat.
What's the length and beam???
We have finish with lockdown over a 100 days ago.
Canabus
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The Story Continues.
Next I contacted Martin Baylis. You see - I did not want to totally give up on steam.
So I had the idea to see if there was a way to build an electric version and yet keep the
options open for a conversion back to Steam. Martin offered (for a very modest amount)
to build me a template of the his engine so I could use it to align the prop shaft in a way
that would allow mounting the steam engine in the future. He also included the Steam plant
mounting plate as well, and then sent them over to Brian Marten for inclusion in my kit.
Then I discussed with Brian Marten what I was thinking of doing, and he offered to add additional
supplies of wood to accommodate the changes in the design I had in mind.
About a month later, a nice size box arrived at my door.
Unfortunately, I had come down with a case of Type A Influenza,
despite having gotten flu-shots, and was laid up for about a month.
During that time I contacted Model Boats to see if they would be interested in an article.
We actually were close to an agreement when they shut down.
Since that time I tried to resurrect the idea with the new editor,
but she has had a hard time bringing the magazine out again, and has not responded.
So - here goes my build. I hope you enjoy it.
Regards to all,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO USA
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Some Specs on the Project X as designed by Marten and Howes.
Scale - 1:12
Length overall - 50 inches / 1270mm
Beam 7” (178mm)
Draught - hull only = 2.125 inches/54mm
Max draught = 4.25 inches / 108mm
Minimum freeboard = 2.85inches / 72mm
Displacement = 12 lbs / 5.4 kgs
Displacement without steam plant = 6 lbs / 2.7 kgs
More to come -
JPDenver
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Hi Jim
A rock crawler 540 80 turn brush motor would work on a 2S(7.2 volt) battery.
I use them in my tug and fishing boat with the same weight as our boat.
All run a 3 blade brass 60mm Raboesch prop (part No. 156-14).
The motor runs 5500rpm unloaded, but in the water I have the throttle set to maximum 60%.
I did have a slower rpm MFA Como drills 950D 2.51motor(2329 rpm) but did not like the noisy gears.
Canabus
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Jim
That is an interesting and fine looking boat.
I seem to remember another thread of yours where you mentioned a Model Boats article. They definitely want new contributors as in the next issue they are giving pointers as to how to go about it. I think they are probably still finding their feet after recommencing publication.
Your build would make an ideal article, don't give up!
We're in our second lockdown and hopefully the last, depends on what effect Christmas has.
Chris
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Nice project, I like the unusual lines of the hull and will follow your build with interest.
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More-
So I think it is a toss-up on where I should post my article. I had actually gone so far as to send a rough draft
to the editor of Model Boats. It got lost somewhere, and since then I have not heard from her.
I know that the public might like to see it, but I also like the intimacy of the dialog I find here.
And besides - all the really important boat builders are on this forum - right? ok2
The ability to have sidebar conversations and to exchange ideas one-on-one is actually why I do this.
In this time of "lock-down" and isolation, conversations keep us all sane.
I am a 69 year old electrical engineer, self taught model machinist, and only started in this hobby about 8 years ago.
So many of you are better at a lot of the fine details than I - but I am improving.
I am going to approach this build log much in the same way that I would write the article.
With an occasional sidebar as you all join in.
So - Here goes - Part 1 starts after breakfast.
Warm Regards,
Jim Pope
Denver, Co
USA
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Part 1 -
I think a general intro to the history of Marten & Howes (and Baylis) is in order.
Ordering from them is a bit like walking into a pub for the first time and finding
people of a like mind, and interests who are willing to give competent advice when asked.
Unlike dealing with a multi-level marketing organization - you talk with the designers of the
crafts you are looking at, and they do not care if you are a rank amateur that is likely to make
a mess of their beautiful boat, but will provide help and guidance as long as you do not try to
weasel something for nothing.
When I approached them about the attempted article, Liz was kind enough to provide me with a companyhistory to include as a sidebar.
So here it is your your enjoyment -
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(There is a PDF at the bottom of the page)
So - Next part will be the kit
Stay Safe - Be Well,Jim
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And so we begin -
Here are some pics of the box and it's contents.
A very well made GRP hull.
A Book of photos that follows the build
An Instruction Manual.
Full size prints.
Running Gear
Fiddley bits
Sheets of cleanly lasered pieces
and a "Box of Sticks"
All was very well packed and it also included some obvious additions
that were due to our pre-sale conversations. Some extra pieces of wood
and the engine mounting plate from Martin Baylis.
The first step was to build the stand, I added some leather padding.
and position the hull to begin the process.
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Then I took the time to do some basic layout.
I used a laser to set in the centerline in the hull.
I also went thru the various wood parts for the decks and bulkheads and the like.
On these I also added centerlines and other positioning markers to help with keeping things
symmetrical as the build progressed.
There was a lot of fitting and doing mock-ups to get accustomed to the positioning.
All the while I was working out the alignment for the steam engine I was not going to put in there
and I also needed to see what electrical plant would work.
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Time to work with the engine plate and the Steam mockup that will allow me to locate the
mount for a possible conversion in the future.
The mount-mockup was installed on the engine plate and fitted to the cross members in the hull.
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So the search is on - I need to find an electric motor that:
1. Could be mounted with correct alignment for the propshaft.
2. Had the right torque and RPM's to fit the prop size.
3. Did not sound like a tortured squirrel when cruising at a decent speed.
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But first things first -
Rear Cockpit floor.
Rudder Post.
Propshaft.
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I found a Tornado 850 with a 2:1.2 reduction via belt drive.
I added a thick base plate to adjust the height and angle of the output shaft.
The result was a powerful motor that did not have to work hard to move the boat.
and could be camouflaged below a motor cowling. (When I got to that part)
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Looking very nice Jim. Model Boats' loss is our gain! And as you say, here you get the feedback, questions and, at some point perhaps, advice. First question - is that long metal base plate part of the kit or your own addition?
Greg
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I assume thats the mounting plate to keep the steam plant from distorting the hull - heavy engineering at its best
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Hello again - Happy US Thanksgiving.
The metal plate with the built in angle wedge and engine mockup wereprovided by Martin Baylis - (for a very reasonable fee).
In addition to creating the mockup for me, he also took the time to
deliver the parts to Brian and Liz in time to be in my shipment.
The heavy metal plate is part of the engine system. Normally provided byBaylis Engineering when you buy the engine from him.
I think that my mounting solution would not be as clean and solid if I had to
work it out by myself.
Here is a side view of the plate showing the "Angle of the Dangle"
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Now that I Have the prop shaft in place, It is time to build up the keel.
Pieces were provided pre-cut and it all fit together.
First some basic epoxy to secure them.
followed by layers of epoxy to build up both sides to a smooth buildup
that looks like it was part of the GRP hull to begin with.
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Now that I have the Propshaft and motor mount located,
it is time to move on to the rest of the hull features.
There is a type of "sub-deck" that forms the basis for the cockpit floor.
It sits around the motor plate.
Then there are the upper decks. These are formed in two parts.
A lower flat deck followed by a curved "turtle deck" forming the top surface.
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It's coming on very well :-))
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Thanks for all the kind remarks.
I am finding that this build was not as technically difficult as some on this board,
but that is offset by the feeling I get every time I look at her lines.
It is time to build her upper decks. I applied a curved framework to the under-deck,and then glued down the "Turtle Deck" - This was followed by an application of epoxy-resin,and finally some "Spot Putty" to fill in small gaps.
Prior to the final gluing of the decks, I started to plan the "Electrical Plant" for the lights I was
thinking of using. Lastly I packed the bow with bubble wrap for buoyancy should such be needed.
So you will see small wires appearing in the fore-deck (Nav Lights) and the aft-deck (Flag Pole) to
facilitate connections later.
Thanks again for following my thread,
hope you enjoy it.
Regards,
Jim
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A few more deck pics.Waiting for a full cure on the epoxy.
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Electrical Planning.
I like lights.and sound effects.
And the time to plan them is when you have a blank slate to wok with.
I have all ready put in some basic power wires under the decks.
So I spend some time working on fixtures.
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Some useful looking elastic bands there Jim!
You are making very good progress and excellent workmanship.
Chris
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Thanks for the kind words.
I am also a devout steamer, but have started to have to cut back a little, hence the decision to go electric.However, I am used to my crafts making some type of realistic sounds.
So I looked around for a sound system of some sort that would offer me the flexibility to
customize what I wanted to hear.
I found a company in Canada called Model Sounds, Inc.They have a system called Shockwave.
It has a number of functions and allows full editing of the sounds.When you order a system you specify a sound group, and you get allthe types in that group, not just a single set. There is also an editing
system that allow you to assign sounds to functions.
Secondary is the availability some basic switching for lights and such.
Here is a pic from the manual, and also a general schematic.
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But in the meantime - Need to paint this.
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Time to start on the interior of the cockpit.
On the Steam model, there is a rear cockpit for passengers with a small cabin.The front area is all engine and boiler. (Gas and related tanks are in the cabin).
For the electric variant, I am placing the engine in the front area under a cover.
And in the area where the boiler would be I plan on building in another circular bench.Relocating the wheel and adding come type of control/dashboard for engine control.
But it all begins by doing some layout and putting in some interior structure.I also need to experiment with some layout on the sound system.
What is nice is that there is a lower deck about 1 1/4" below the actual finished deck.so that gives me room for placing the speakers.
The finish is still a little soft, so I have to be careful during the fitting.
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Here is the sound board and other RC electronics
Just seeing how it might fit.
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I found a source for a "true" Spar Varnish.
No Urethanes. Takes about 48 hours to dry fully.Goes on very smooth, few bubbles,
The documentation recommends using it to add a layer of UV protection as well.
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The plans call for vertical "planking" on the walls.
I laid out some lines to keep things parallel.
I found a little jig to bevel the edges of the planks.
Also fit some small lamps to the walls.
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Now to look at the aft cockpit.
There is a similar wall with planks.
First is the lower part of the cabin.
Then on to fitting the rear seat area.
These parts may need to be removed for servos access.
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The original version of the Project X has a Kingdon Boiler that sitsright in front of the central cabin.
Since I am not putting the boiler in right now, I need to close that area off.
I decided to make a bench - much like the rear cabin area.
I asked Marten and Howes for a picture of the cabin area without the steam plant.
They were kind enough to send a couple.
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Started to rough put the area of the bench.
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The original plans called for just taking the floor and drawing lines to simulate planking.
Well, I like to really to plank.
So I did.
So I took the floor plate and added planks along with some grates for the speakers underneath.
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Hi, I made enquiries about this kit myself, was told the price of the steam plant and where it came from, and promptly gave up.
So I am wondering if you looked around for an alternative steam plant to the one recommended by the suppliers of this kit? I have looked at Chiltern Model steam, and found there prices more acceptable. I also found another supplier but cant find them now, But I do have the link at home.
I know diddly squat about model steam plant manufacturers, so would be curious to know other people's view.
Thanks for posting your build, I shall certainly be watching with interest.
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Thanks for reading my log.
I think that the steam plant could be substituted with a Boiler from Pendle Steam - you would need to verify the size.
They make a Kindon.
The engine could be any of the Twin Marine styles, The TVR1 or one from Microcosm (Ebay-China).
I am not sure, but you could probably also get one of the Vertical boilers from Clevedon, MSM, Pendle to fit.
The result might not be as elegant as the Baylis Engineering Solution, but would still be potentially a good fit.
More to come -
Regards to all,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO USA
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The one I was searching for was Clevedon steam.
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A side project -
The dashboard.
I used small portholes with some decalsbacklit by LEDS.
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So time to build the Engine Compartment.
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Then moving toward the stern,
I mounted the servo for the steering.
The rear curved shield with vertical paneling is
removable. But the fit is very tight.
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Time for a quick float test.
Piled most of the remaining pieces on the hull.
(Waited until the boss went shopping) <*<
And filled up the tub in the guest bath.
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Dry wipe the tub and she will never know, but we will !!!
Secret men stuff !!!
Mine you your bank balance has DROPPED !!!!
Canabus
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Thanks Canabus.
The boss and I have been together for going on 46 years.
I figured out at abut year 25 (slow learner) that she gets whatever she wants.
And we try to keep things even.
Then occasionally I can get away with over-spending my allowance!
But really, My Lady is a fantastic artist. She is a sculptor, painter, and also works a lot with fabric.
So she appreciates my attempts at "art" - and tolerates the smell of epoxy curing in the basement.
However, I did wipe out the tub afterwords.
Later,
Jim
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The next parts are the bench seats and the central cabin.
Worked on them at the same time -
glue sets on one while the other is getting ready.
I used the way the kit laid out the rear seat to makea similar copy for the front one.
Then I started to play around with cushions.
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More views of the process.
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OK, a confession / clarification -
Just in case you all haven't picked up on this:
I finished the "Ladye X" back in April.
What I have been doing is basically posting the process already completed.
These are pictures and descriptions I was going to use in my article in Model Boats.
But since they closed down and then have stumbled in the re-start, I am posting them here.
In all fairness to Model Boats, I know they are trying hard, but so far, since the re-start in August,
I have only seen one issue. So the method they are using for posting to the USA is pretty much a failure in my book.
Since I am working on a new build, I want to finish up this record but did not want my fellow boat-builders to thinkit was all getting accomplished in a weekend. :embarrassed:
More to come-
Thanks for reading.
JimJPDenver
Denver, CO USA
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So can we see the completed boat?
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:-))
Of course.
I am shrinking the rest of the photos now.
So I will post remainder of the build in the next 24 hrs.
Jim
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More pics of the build.
Doors to cabins, Seat tops, Roof Sections
All getting shaped and finish applied.
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More pics of the finish work.
The trimwork, doors, and fiddley-bits.
Last is the fitting of the top of the gunwales.
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Some pics of the lighting.
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Thats a very special build - wow what a lovely boat O0
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A real work of art - beautiful.
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And Finally - some movies:
1. Engine Test (Sound System)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhclQWtiYOQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhclQWtiYOQ)
2. Tour of the Ladye X.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btlitUB7O5A&t=10s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btlitUB7O5A&t=10s)
3. First time in the water.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSflgWQkFb4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSflgWQkFb4)
4. And Lastly - Some speed and handling tests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buFH4wv6nqY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buFH4wv6nqY)
This concludes my "article". I hope you enjoyed it.
I expect that this craft will be one of my favorites.
I love the way she sounds, and the way she glides thru the water.
The build was not as complex as some I have done, and the total time
from opening the box to putting her in the water was about 6 weeks.
So - Warm regards to all from here in the middle of the USA.
Stay safe, Be Well.
Jim Pope
JPDenver
Denver, Colorado USA.
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That is one great build Jim. It looks really great on the water too.
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Very nice - assuming as it was a steam plant that was to drive her, therefore she had a boiler engine block and smoke stack, then converted to what, in the real world usually a petrol / diesel engine, hence the engine noise, but where is the exhaust, for those who cannot see it, is it under the water line ?, if a tesla conversion i.e. electric, would it not be silent in running ? assuming the electric variant description is the motor power for modeling purposes, when I first started to watch this I was under the impression it was going to look like the original steam plant version but with an electric motor and power source driving her.
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She's quite fast and cuts the water very well. Interestingly she doesn't seem to lift the bow even at speed.
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You are right, she cuts right thru the waves.
But I have found that too tight a curve and she rolls a bit.
One time (on another run) I managed to get some pond water over the gunwales.
So I guess I need to treat her like a lady, and not get too rough with her.
Thanks for the comments.
Regards,Jim
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Yes I noticed the rolling too. I'm not sure what causes it.
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Probably because it's so long and narrow. Problem with models is that they are sometimes asked to go faster and turn tighter than the full-sized craft would be asked to relatively speaking.
At steadier speeds and turns it looks great.
Chris
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Chris - you are right.
The rolling (just out of frame) on the last video occurred when I almost dropped
my phone while trying to drive and film at the same time. Not really a good idea.
At a good "scale speed" she is smooth and much more graceful.
I'll keep my Club500 for acrobatics.
Our ponds are frozen now so no more runs until next spring.
So - it is on to my "Winter Build" -
Time to start another build log.
Thanks to all for reading.
Happy Holidays
Jim