Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam R&D: => Topic started by: SteamboatPhil on December 04, 2020, 07:49:59 pm

Title: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on December 04, 2020, 07:49:59 pm
My latest project (well had to do something during lock down) high speed engine which is based based on the design by Alan Rayman, but with several differences. Its 13/16 bore x 5/8 stroke, internal flywheel with balanced crankshaft on two double row self aligning ball races. Steel connecting rod with phosphor bronze split big end. Reduction gear which will drive water and oil pumps
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: Mark T on December 04, 2020, 07:58:30 pm
That looks very interesting Phil - what's the plans with it?  Ooyah/2 made a very fast flash steam engine and plant so maybe there's a bit of help there  :-)
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on December 04, 2020, 08:20:13 pm
It will have a Scott boiler (semi flash type) and fired by a vaporising petrol blow lamp, my intention is to fit the plant into a 42" fast radio controlled hull,  I am also working on a flash steam engine as well which I will do a separate posting for.
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: rhavrane on December 04, 2020, 08:32:12 pm
Bonjour Phil,
I congratulate you for your exercice but to my opinion, a slide valve machine can't be a fast one, slide valve, high speed and high pressure are not friends.
All the fast machines I have seen are single acting single or twin cylinders.
Here is an example built by JMC : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZmmz7mPYPk
Example of bi : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q28f2j5xthY
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on December 04, 2020, 10:04:00 pm
I agree you will not ba able to reach very high speeds, I am hoping to get around 60 Kph (40 mph) with this engine. As an example the attached photo is my 1 Mtr class, it has a 5/8 x 5/8 double acting slide valve engine with a Scott boiler and petrol blow lamp and when the picture was taken it was doing 32 Kph (20Mph), so fingers crossed for my new engine  :-)
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: DBS88 on December 04, 2020, 10:12:23 pm
Phil this looks to be an exciting project which I will watch and learn from, good luck, I look forward to the progress reports
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: ooyah/2 on December 04, 2020, 11:55:50 pm
It will have a Scott boiler (semi flash type) and fired by a vaporising petrol blow lamp, my intention is to fit the plant into a 42" fast radio controlled hull,  I am also working on a flash steam engine as well which I will do a separate posting for.


Come come Phil,
You should know by now that there is no such thing as (Semi flash steam ) the Scott boiler that you are going to make draws steam from a wet header and then with 3ft of super heater coil going down into the path of the flame creates very hot super heated steam, at the time  I said that I had built Allans engine with the Aluminium piston head which melted and seize the engine, I abandoned that engine and built an engine based on R.K's engine, I can't remember what the boiler pressure was, I think it was 150p.s.i.


Years ago when I started my flash steamer and had  after 5 years on my second engine, years of development and achieving 45 m.p.h. with a deep "V" hull you were going to build one that could do 45m.p.h.So after 22 years I am still waiting and at nearly 82 years of age please hurry up time is running out. [size=78%]


Regards


George [/size]
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: rhavrane on December 05, 2020, 10:44:58 am
Bonjour phil,
Based on your experience and yur picture, I have no doubt that you will succeed ! 32 km/h is already an amazing speed, my speed boat runs at only 10 km/h and I lost an Anton Trophy race because of a friend's boat running at 12 km/h : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysNQ-Prq8II (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysNQ-Prq8II)


Evoking 60 km/h makes me dream !

Please note however that for the Anton trophy, the pressure is limited at 8 bar.
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: ballastanksian on December 05, 2020, 09:30:25 pm
It's brilliant to see people pushing their technologies and making equipment with better ad better performance. I hope you get all the speed you need Phil  :-))  Looks a treat.
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: roycv on December 06, 2020, 09:24:26 am
Hi Steamboat...  Many years ago like 50 I started to make this same engine.  I was learning metalwork at evening classes.  I made a good deal of the engine but found an odd sized bearing needed, a sort of open sleeve.  Is that right?
I used to be in the IT industry when they still used valves and had Glacier Metals as a customer, their main product was bearings but they searched high and low but could not find the size specified.

A few months later I moved away and it all got left behind as we moved between terms.  The only item I made that is still with me is a set of parallel jaw clamps, still bright and shiny after 50+ years.
Happy days
Roy


 
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on December 06, 2020, 07:30:35 pm
Update, well I now have the engine together, as you can see I have added drip feed lubrication to the cross head and valve buckle. The knurled knob from then crankcase is the drain valve. And of course a very large exhaust.
OK George I agree but we have been calling it semi flash steam since my grandfathers day. (and he taught Alan Rayman)... who am I to argue with family  {-) {-)
Yes I will have around 3 ft of super heater coil, on Saskia (photo earlier) I used a spearhead superheater of around 2 ft which worked well.You also said that you melted the aluminium lock nut on the piston..... :((  ooooo thank you for that, today I replaced mine with a cast iron one, thanks for the heads up. Boiler next step  :-))
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on December 06, 2020, 07:31:40 pm
Another view
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: ooyah/2 on December 06, 2020, 11:13:04 pm
Phil,
If I remember correctly I had a difficult job in keeping the eccentric sheave clamp on the main shaft from constantly slipping due to the sudden increase of power when the steam valve was opened.
I also remember putting a sight glass on the boiler end which was a waist of time as with the turbulence of the steam in the boiler at pressure it was impossible to read.
Now as I never sailed it in anger I have often wondered how Alan new how much water was in the boiler and when to adjust the pump.


George.
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on December 08, 2020, 05:26:30 pm
On this engine the eccentric is clamped to a shoulder on the crankshaft by the coupling. Yes I have had the trouble on my earlier engine (as did my father and come to that Alan) clamping the eccentric..slightly bad design. With regard to the water gauge if you look at Alans early design for the Scott boiler it does not show a water gauge, some years ago I asked Alan about this, his reply....boy ( I was around 30 at the time !!!!!) we just knew.....
Go figure......
I think I will stick with a gauge  :-))
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: ooyah/2 on December 13, 2020, 08:57:13 pm
Hi Phil
 Thought that you would like to see some of my earlier experiences with high pressure engines and boilers.
the pics are of the first boiler and engine that I made following a Mr A Martin who is featured in  Edgar Westbury's book Flashsteam.
Mr Martin was featured here with some of his high speed engines of the Tornado series,  my aim was to keep the engine as light as possible and it came out just below 1 lb. including the oil pump and water pump.
The engine was 5/8" bore x 5/8" stroke and did 15,000 rpm, it was open crank and I had to fit small brass shields each side of the engine. 
The boiler was fitted with a sight glass but was impossible to get a level as the turbulence inside the boiler was so fierce.


The fuel tank was filled with a 4/1 mix of Paraffin and petrol and was pressurised to 60 p.s.i. with a bicycle pump and as you can see in the pic the burner had to have a vaporising coil at the end of the burner tube.


I never had it installed in a boat as I was afraid that it would destroy its self under load as  there was a few joints came adrift owing to Silver soldered joints.
Must say that it was a great experience and informative as to what materials to use before my early attempts on serious Flashsteam.


George.
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: rhavrane on December 13, 2020, 09:04:42 pm
Bonjour George,
Your steam plant seems powerful I find the gas tank quite small for this large burner. Does it freeze after a while ? Do you heat it ? 
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: ooyah/2 on December 13, 2020, 09:09:59 pm
DOES THE FUEL TANK FREEZE?


No it does not freeze as it is holding 4/1 Paraffin/Petrol and the burner has a vaporising coil around the flame tube. The petrol is in the mix to help the burner to fire.


All as explained in my first post.


George.
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: KNO3 on December 16, 2020, 07:03:07 pm
This is going to be a very interesting topic!
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on January 05, 2021, 09:50:55 pm
Well the plant is now finished, I had built the petrol blow lamp and boiler during the summer so all I had to do were all the fittings...... %%

Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on January 05, 2021, 09:52:25 pm
Another view showing the gears driving the water and oil pumps.  :-))
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: ooyah/2 on January 05, 2021, 09:57:00 pm
Hi Phil,  Nice looking plant although a very fast steamer but very violent.


Look forward to seeing it running when all thais lock down stuff is eased.


Happy New year to you and All.


George.
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on January 05, 2021, 10:04:41 pm
Thanks George
I am working on the hull now and will post some progress photo's, and with luck....
Although we are not locked down here (yet) we still have a few restrictions (and a curfew) but fingers crossed


And of course Happy new year to you
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: KNO3 on January 06, 2021, 07:56:22 am
Hi Phil, the steam plant looks nice and shiny. Could you post some pictures of the boiler's internals?
Do you already have a hull for it?
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on January 06, 2021, 09:11:57 am
Here is the boiler and the superheater tube, the boiler is 10 inches long with 3 inch diameter with 3 ft of super heater. I do have a GRP hull ready which is 47 inches long and based very much on one of my high speed boats (Saskia---as above) It was moulded some years ago by a friend of mine.

Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: rhavrane on January 06, 2021, 10:20:51 am
Bonjour Phil,
Fpor my future speed boat, I have a Double Scott boiler (very heavy) for a 4,5 twin single action speed machine, but no hull yet  :((
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxjvgliqmuI
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: mrzippy on January 06, 2021, 11:01:01 am
Great stuff Phil ! 
How nice could it be? / would it be??  to see that contraption tearing up the lake at Wicksteed Park in May !!
we can all hope and dream under the present circumstances.
happy new year all,  haud Hogmanay George.
regards Paul
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: SteamboatPhil on January 06, 2021, 12:27:26 pm
I am hoping Paul  :-)) :-))
Title: Re: High Speed Engine
Post by: KNO3 on January 06, 2021, 03:58:29 pm
Here is the boiler and the superheater tube, the boiler is 10 inches long with 3 inch diameter with 3 ft of super heater. I do have a GRP hull ready which is 47 inches long and based very much on one of my high speed boats (Saskia---as above) It was moulded some years ago by a friend of mine.



Thank you Phil!