Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: Mark T on December 12, 2020, 03:47:46 pm
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Time to start another build %%
This time I'm going to try my hand at a fully framed build as I like a bit of carpentry. I've chosen Ancre's "Le Rochefort" monograph for this build for a few reasons.
It would be easy to make my first POF build a 3 level; first class ship of the line bristling with cannon but I know my limits.
So this vessel is a 16th century working yacht that supplied the war ships with powder. Her build is very detailed for its work such as as fully fitted deck, water tight hatches and a floor above the keelson to keep the powder dry. I'll try and elaborate on this sort of thing as the build moves forward.
The monograph comes with 13 fully detailed drawings so there's no drawing or lofting for me to do. I would find this very tedious and its not my thing so its great to have it already done. You also get a book that contains the history of the vessel and a building guide.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/12/IMG_3976.jpg)
The drawings are quite Franky astounding in quality and so detailed they include things like the bevelling of the frames
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/12/IMG_3931.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/12/IMG_3929.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/12/IMG_3977.jpg)
So what does Le Rochefort look like? She's a single masted vessel which weighed in at about 90 tons. She was designed by Hubert Penevert and built in France at Rochefort in 1787. She is the third known vessel built around this time bearing this name.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/12/le-rochefort-yachts-de-port-1787.jpg)
And fortunately for me the kit turned up OK . I have had to guess the amount of wood required to complete her but I estimate 8 planks of wood {-)
This Costello boxwood is just beautiful and the cost of the monograph and the wood is about that of a decent model kit
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/12/IMG_3932.jpg)
Its going to be a long build as I'm making everything this time but I'll update it as and when I can
Cheers Mark :-)
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Hi Mark
Now I see why the saw had to go back ,I hope the turn round is quick ,what band saw have you. If you make a job of this as you did the last it will be all ok. Happy building ,have some sort of Christmas its all a bit strange more so for you down there ,where we live finding six people is a challenge.
Merry Christmas to you both .
David
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I will once again be watching with great interest, and again being jealous of your great woodworking skills :-))
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Hi Mark
Now I see why the saw had to go back ,I hope the turn round is quick ,what band saw have you. If you make a job of this as you did the last it will be all ok. Happy building ,have some sort of Christmas its all a bit strange more so for you down there ,where we live finding six people is a challenge.
Merry Christmas to you both .
David
Hi David great to hear from you mate - I have a proxxon band saw which I reckon is more than adequate for this job. But your are right I hope I get my table saw back quickly as I feel like my best mate is missing in action. BTW how's your Ham exams going??? Have a great Xmas Bud :)
I will once again be watching with great interest, and again being jealous of your great woodworking skills :-))
Hi Phil and thanks :). I'm very unsure how far I'm going to get with this one but I'm going to give it a go. Its something that I've always wanted to do.....so lets try. If it doesn't work out I'm going to build the most powerful Riva that has ever graced this planet {-)
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Right its time to get started O0
I've never looked at proper ships plans before and I must admit they are confusing and very daunting. There is so much detail its difficult to know where to start so I'm going to do what I've always done. I'm going to break this build down into manageable chunks and start with something that I think I can do.
There are 32 frames that need to be made not including the hawse or stern timbers :o Some look easier than others so I have chosen the forward frames numbered 15 through to frame 4. They are I guess what we would call standard frames that don't have riser blocks or pillows as I think they are called.
Here's a picture of frame 8 - Its made up of 10 pieces and two halves. One half sits on the floor of the rising wood and the other sits on the half floor. I'll try and explain this as I go along as I'm learning too
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/13/IMG_3979.jpg)
So I took 2 photocopies of each frame and coloured them in so that I can tell which frame belongs to which half
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/12/IMG_3935.jpg)
Next was the wood for the frames. I took a plank and cut it into 3 equal lengths to make it more manageable. The width of the wood is listed in the plans under a thing called "the scantlings". Old world speak for list of ships timber sizes {-) The original frames were 189mm wide so divided by 24 for my scale, the wood needs to be 7.875mm wide. From the supplier the wood was 8.36mm wide
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/12/IMG_3933.jpg)
So I ran each piece through a thickness sander to bring it down. I left a bit on for final sanding
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/12/IMG_3934.jpg)
I next cut out all of the frame parts and used a Pritt stick to glue them onto the wood. I'm making 11 frames here so there are 110 parts :o
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/13/IMG_3978.jpg)
Yellow is for the floor and red for the half floor sides. I've now got to get these cut out on the band saw and then sand down to the outside edge. Its going to take a while so I'll update as and when I can
Cheers Mark :-)
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Hi Mark, Just found your build, this is going to be such an interesting build, I do like it when the build method is similar to the real thing, there are some beautiful shapes in that hull is it to be static or sailing version, I've never built a static yet but if I were to I think this one would be the one I'd choose, I'll follow with interest. :-))
Joe.
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following along,, what scale and completed size.. ln a few months I will be starting the hull for a 1/6th scale 30ft launch, the construction methods are very close,
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Hi Mark, Just found your build, this is going to be such an interesting build, I do like it when the build method is similar to the real thing, there are some beautiful shapes in that hull is it to be static or sailing version, I've never built a static yet but if I were to I think this one would be the one I'd choose, I'll follow with interest. :-))
Joe.
Hi Joe good to hear from you :-)) This going to be a static build and I decided that I wanted to build it to as close to the original as possible. The plans are so detailed they are fantastic - even things like each section of each frame requires 3 iron bolts and it even gives you the original size of the bolts used. I did a lot of research before choosing this vessel and its apparently classed as quite an easy build {-) I would say that from what I've done so far its very easy to get it all wrong. I'm on a learning journey yet again buts thats the fun part O0
following along,, what scale and completed size.. ln a few months I will be starting the hull for a 1/6th scale 30ft launch, the construction methods are very close,
Hi :-)) - The scale is 1/24th but they supply plans for this boat in 1/36th and 1/48th should you choose. I prefer to build slightly bigger as I find that I can get more detail in. The finished size is roughly the size of my Anteo tug being about 900mm long without the bowsprit which I think takes it too 1100mm I think?
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Wow you are a braver man than me Mark, this is going to be an epic build !
can I ask where you buy the nice boxwood - Timberline?
regards Paul
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Mark will enjoy watching your progress with this new build. If you do not already have them there are a couple of books that might interest you by Harold Underhill - Plank On Frame Models Vol 1 and Vol 2. He too was a fan of using Box Wood and Pear. The two books are a description of how he built the brigantine Leon, from the use of plans through to mounting it in a glass case. He reused old timber, he even bought box wood rulers, he would offer a new one in exchange for an old one, then use the better quality timber from the old ones for his models. He did all his building on an old beige topped card table, with just hand tools, the level of detail he achieved is just mind boggling. He explains the building up of the hull frames very clearly, even how to make the wood pins he joined each piece with. Anyway, they are an interesting read, they will give you a lot of background info that will make navigating your new project a lot easier.
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Wow you are a braver man than me Mark, this is going to be an epic build !
can I ask where you buy the nice boxwood - Timberline?
regards Paul
Hi Paul and thanks, I'm going to give it a go and we'll see how it turns out. You are right about Timberline I get all of my wood from there.
Mark will enjoy watching your progress with this new build. If you do not already have them there are a couple of books that might interest you by Harold Underhill - Plank On Frame Models Vol 1 and Vol 2. He too was a fan of using Box Wood and Pear. The two books are a description of how he built the brigantine Leon, from the use of plans through to mounting it in a glass case. He reused old timber, he even bought box wood rulers, he would offer a new one in exchange for an old one, then use the better quality timber from the old ones for his models. He did all his building on an old beige topped card table, with just hand tools, the level of detail he achieved is just mind boggling. He explains the building up of the hull frames very clearly, even how to make the wood pins he joined each piece with. Anyway, they are an interesting read, they will give you a lot of background info that will make navigating your new project a lot easier.
Hi David - yep I've both of those books and I agree they are very descriptive and have been a good source of research for me. Harold Underhill built his ships in a stylised way as he preferred things to look even and uniform over the original build as I understand it. You can still get his plans as I believe his family now sells them. I've been getting ready for this build for a long time but there's nothing like cutting timber which I've been doing all afternoon - fantastic :-))
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Very inspirational,
Great project
Best of luck with it
Mark
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Another good book for showing how this type of building is done is The Colonial Schooner 1763-1775 by Harold M Hahn published 1981. This shows the building of 2 ships and includes scale drawings and the frames with a description of how be builds up the frames in a scale way. Mightbe difficultgetting hold of a copy now though.
Jim
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Hi Seacommander and JimG - Thanks for the encouragement and advise its much appreciated
I've made some progress - Firstly I roughly cut out all of the pieces in the bandsaw
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/23/IMG_3981.jpg)
As per my other post regarding my bandsaw I went through two blades doing this. I'm in no way knocking this little machine, I've just had my monies worth out of it and it has served me well.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/23/IMG_3983.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/23/IMG_3982.jpg)
Then I had to sand all of the pieces down to size. To do this I used my bench sander for the outside edges, and a Dremel router table for the inner edges.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/23/IMG_3984.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/23/IMG_3985.jpg)
I'm sure that many builders would find this very tedious but I really like doing this sort of thing O0
So after a couple of days all of the parts have had their first shaping down to the outside line of their templates
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/23/IMG_3986.jpg)
I'm sure that some parts will need remaking but thats ok as I've never done this before. So what have I learnt so far
1. Be more sparing with the colouring pen as the different colours cause my eyes confusion when sanding down to a line
2. Be more accurate on the bandsaw to save quite as much sanding
3. Don't try and sand to the edge with a rough Dremel sanding drum. Get close and then change to a finer grade
The next step is to get the parts that attach to the rising wood onto the milling machine. I need to cut the slots that they locate onto and also the slots for the keelson.
Mark :-)
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Hi Mark, as you say to some of us, all the rib pieces could be quite tedious but worth it they go to make a great model even though you don't see them in the finished boat you know they are there and what went into them, I must get me one of those bench sanders not seen them in Lidl for a while and fetching fancy prices on E-bay, look forward to see all the parts go together, :-))
Joe
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Hi Joe - I've put a few pieces together and they look ok to the eye. As I'm not used to looking at drawings like these I'm finding them a bit confusing. Luckily for me I've just realised that some of the slots are tapered and are indicated by two base datum lines. I'll get there hopefully - I need to make a piece of the rising wood to glue the floor and half floor timbers together before I can assemble the frames. Its a lot of work to find out you've done it wrong {-)
I really cannot recommend these sanders enough - I'm using a 80 grit disc and it flies through wood. Its got a variable speed motor but best of all its got dust extraction. I've been sanding away for hours and there is no mess in my room - oh except loads of dirty coffee cups %%
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A lovely subject you have chosen O0 watching and learning :-)
The proxxon sander is my no.1 tool that sees service many many times a day all year round. If it ever failed I would buy the same again :-)
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Thanks Andy I'm learning on the job too and I keep on finding things that I've missed. Luckily my wood supplier has plenty of wood. I agree with you about the Proxxon sander I too would definitely buy another.
I've begun to mill out the floor and half floor timber - I think the half floor timber is also called a "chock" I'll look into that a bit further
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/24/IMG_3987.jpg)
Its quite slow going and I'm having to run the cutter uncomfortably close to the vice. This is because the vice has a "V" groove on the movable jaw and it tries to tip the piece off of 90 degrees. I think I need to look for another vice at some point. Here's where I'm at and I've turned a couple of the floor timbers around as the colour and lines complicate the picture
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/24/IMG_3991.jpg)
This is hopefully what I'm aiming for - this is the 10 parts of frame 5 just laid on the bench. I can't glue them up until I've made a piece of the rising wood that they sit on. Only then will I know if all is Ok or I need to scrap them and start again. Having done a bit of reading I apparently need to avoid creeping errors. In other words a small mistake at one point becomes a huge problem further down the line.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/24/IMG_3990.jpg)
It looks cool if nothing else {-)
Mark :-)
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Mark nice work, thank you for showing the machines in use, it’s useful to see them in action and hear peoples views as to how useful they are. As a thought re the vice and the moving jaw, perhaps a piece of ply or a metal strip placed in front of the moving jaw so that the Vee is covered will work, it will still grip, and in some respects may save some compression or chip mark damage to the parts.
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Thanks David I just hope that these frames turn out OK and thats a very good idea for the vice. I think I'll glue a sacrificial piece of wood to it and that should solve my problem. See thats why I love this forum :-)) I do need to somehow make this vice tilt too as I need to make quite a few angled cuts which just moving the clamped piece will not achieve.
I do like showing pieces actually being machined as a picture is worth more than a few words. The Proxxon MF70 mill is tiny yet accurate. The spindle speed can achieve 20,000 rpm so you get virtually no tear out or chipping on the wood. I did think about getting a larger mill but they all have much slower spindle speeds.
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Hi All
I hope that you all had a nice Xmas - even if it was a but quiet for us all. Next year will be better :-))
I've done some more on the build and I started by making a piece of the rising wood that the frames sit on. This is made out of a piece of scrap pear wood that I had, as its not going on the model. It's just a throw away part that will help me make sure all of the frames are square. I roughed it out on the bandsaw and finished its dimensions on a thickness sander. I had to do it this way as I'm still waiting for my table saw to return to me.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_3996.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_3997.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_3998.jpg)
As you can see it gets machined up on the mill and the tolerances are very tight. I ended up with a nice piece of wood - it seems like a lot of work to just be thrown away but its worth the effort
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_3999.jpg)
And now for my first two errors >>:-(
I had milled all of the rebates on each floor timber to the lines on the plan - but I didn't actually measure them. When I did I discovered that I had machined every single one too small which is better than being too big. So each one had to go back on the mill and be fettled but this time checking the dimensions with a vernier.
The second error - never ever get distracted when machining. I did and when I returned and started milling I had not fully tightened the vice. The floor timber of frame number 5 was ripped out of the vice and flew across the room. No damage to me or anything else but the part is now scrap. I'll remake it next time a make some frames.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_3995.jpg)
So time for some trial fits - I had to remove part of the template on the floor timber as its an exact fit on the rising floor and the paper prevented it from fitting correctly.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_4008.jpg)
Then I tried the half floor timber (Chock) first which fitted very nicely
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_4001.jpg)
And then placed the floor timber behind it - This timber has a smaller rebate that goes lower towards the keel
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_4003.jpg)
Frames 8 and 9 next to each other and the slot in the top of the chock is where the keelson locks in to secure all of the frames
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_4004.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_4005.jpg)
And lastly just a quick picture of how the floor timbers look from underneath which show how they step lock onto the rising wood
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/28/IMG_4007.jpg)
So tomorrow I'll hopefully glue all of the first few floor timbers together with the exception of frame 5 and then get the rest of these frames assembled. IF 50% come out ok and 50% need to be remade I'll be happy with that. I'm learning on the job %%
Cheers Mark
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Hi Mark, geez that is such a complex build, it must be so gratifying seeing how the bits go together, very interesting mate. :-))
Joe
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Hi Joe - it is really nice when things click together but you're right its complex to compared to what I've done before........the plans are hard to read for me but thats a lack of practice. I'm sure things will get easier for me - I must say though I'm loving the challenge so far :-) These frames need a lot of fairing before they are finished. They also need 3 bolts per joint on both sides which I hope to do with ebony wood and also rebates for joining pieces and limber slots :D Now I've written it I think I need a whiskey {-)
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Hullo Mark...that baby Proxxon Miller will have paid for itself a thousand times over [or more] in this build O0
Knowing that each subframe pivots on 2 points, did you use any semi automated method to attain the horizontal requirement ...then tighten [with 2 hands] %) , or just a small spirit level?
Looking forward to the continuing build in 2021
Derek
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Hi Derek - I'm glad your enjoying the build :-)) These photo's really exaggerate the size of these pieces. To get them level I just eyeballed them across the top of the vice. They don't need to be clamped to tightly as the cutter goes through this hard wood so easily. I tried it virtually loose hence the damage - I was lucky!
I've now started gluing up - firstly the two floor timbers on the jig
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/29/IMG_4010.jpg)
As I said before I keep on finding out things just through my lack of experience. I noticed that the floor timber (the yellow one) sat lower than the chock (the red one). But every part that I had cut was exactly the same? So I checked the drawings and they are supposed to be this way. If I had read the drawings better I would have known this already. Everyday's a school day for me at the minute.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/29/IMG_4014.jpg)
Next I did another photocopy of the frame and used this as a guide to glue all of the parts together. I began by butt gluing the yellow side for want of a better description. I've also had my table saw back from the USA (THANK GOD) and it gave me a nice flat surface to do this on O0
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/29/IMG_4009.jpg)
Then the red parts of the second layer were glued on and weighted down for a few minutes
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/29/IMG_4011.jpg)
And here's a completed frame which I must say is a very very strong structure.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/29/IMG_4012.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/29/IMG_4013.jpg)
So I'm going to carry on gluing the frames together which is actually quite a quick process and then I need to think about bevelling them inside and out. I hope this is not too much detail and getting a bit boring - let me know and I'll adjust the posts to suit
Mark :-)
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Hi All
Well I've learnt quite a bit from making these frames but as I've started to bevel them its become apparent that I have not left enough wood on them to achieve this with any accuracy. I have sanded too close the lines and if I couple that with some pretty inaccurate work on the band saw it pretty much makes them all scrap.
So back to the drawing board and start again but this time armed with a bit more knowledge than before. They actually looked quite good {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/12/30/IMG_4015.jpg)
I won't update this build until I catch up to where I am now as it will just be repetitive and thats no good. Don't worry I'll be back a few weeks with hopefully a better update. These things are sent to try us and if was that easy everyone would be doing it %%
Mark :-)
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That's a shame Mark, but remember someone who never made a mistake never made anything, ;) I'll be waiting for the new rib set.
Joe.
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We have all been there at sometime {:-{ keep going :-))
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Hi Phil and Joe - Cheers lads but luckily I actually don't see this as a set back really. I've learnt so much and the next one's should be ok. I've learnt that its the flat frames are the hardest to make as you can loose so many errors in the bevelled ones. Also cumulative errors really gain pace if its started at the bottom of the boat. For example I cut one of the frames .30mm to low on the rising wood which by the time it had been around the curves of the frame this translated into a 3mm error at the top O0 Its been great to have these frames and measure backwards to see my errors :-))
I've already run the replacement wood through the thickness sander and photocopied all of the frames again. So it'll be less colouring and more accuracy this time :-))
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I'll be waiting patiently for the next exciting episode. Such a refreshing and fascinating change from the "smother it in car body filler" school of hull building! (Nothing wrong with filler, use it myself now and again, %) but fully framing a hull like this is in a different league IMHO.)
Greg
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Mark..... as the angle of taper [or line] between each frame changes over a continual 2D plane between both the horizontal to the vertical, without a 3D compensated work platform......it is still up to the naked eye to achieve your intended shaping/angling/profiling of each frame
One possible alternate to this, is to maintain the dual marked paper hull profiles as you have to date, however leave the angular face of each frame as 90 degrees to the vertical and oversized.........glue each frame to the keel plate, then use a Proxxon mini electric file "Belt Sander BS/E' fo fair in each frame from the max to the min line, which also should produce a fully profiled surface over the width of each frame
In all cases, the use of a short timber block [overlapping 2+ frames] with sandpaper used in a draw filing motion is required
Derek
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Hi Greg - thanks mate and I am finding it very different/difficult but enjoyable too. I'll update this as soon as I can.
Hi Derek - Fortunately the draughtsman who drew these plans also took the time to draw all of the tapers both inside and outside on the frame templates. This is how I know that the frames that I've already made are not good enough. The frames have to be rough faired before they are all installed on the keel which will also require a jig to be made. Only then can the whole hull be faired both inside and out as strength needs to be built in first. Zoom in on the frames and you will see the fairing markings. Quite a talented draughtsman to say the least O0
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Just a quick update!
I've now remade all 110 pieces and I'm much more happy with these ones O0 I've learnt a few things along the way too which is a good thing.
1. I've changed the way I look at the wood - believe it or not a made them up as if they were metal and for some reason my accuracy improved???
2. I thought that my previous woodwork was quite accurate - wrong {-) To build this ship I need to recalibrate my brain!
3. This time I did not use the lines to mill down too. I took the measurements off of the plan and milled to the measurements instead
4. I've left a tiny bit on the frames so that once glued I can sand them as a complete item
5. I noticed that frame 5 is tapered where the keelson fits into it. I'm so glad that I saw this now and not later
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/04/IMG_4018.jpg)
I've also taken Dereks advice and bought a Proxxon BS/E sander which looks like a decent bit of kit. I also spoke to Taranis about this purchase before buying it and between us we think it will be very useful for this build.
Now I'm saying all of this but I've not tried any parts for a fit yet. I did check for symmetry when I was sanding them and that seemed a lot better. So tomorrow I'll had a go at fitting and gluing this lot together. Hopefully these one's or at least some of them will be OK
Mark
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Mark have been following with interest and was curious to know more about the challenge you were dealing with. Since I have not made a plank on frame boat I had a flick through Harold Underhills book and this diagram from his book will clarified what you have been doing. It now makes perfect sense as to why you were bevelling the frames.
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Hi DBS88 yes that picture sums it up nicely. Fully frames ships - just like the full scale vessel are bevelled both inside and outside. Thats one of the biggest challenges as it needs to look as good inside as outside. There's a lot of timber to be removed after each frame is made but I need to get the frames straight first.
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Just another quick update
So far so good %% I've glued 3 frames together and they are much better than before. I reckon that these could be winners which is very pleasing :-))
Here's a few pictures of some of the floor timbers now glued together showing the transition from one frame to the next
Looking from stern to bow
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/05/IMG_4019.jpg)
Bow to stern
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/05/IMG_4020.jpg)
And the side
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/05/IMG_4021.jpg)
It's all very rough but gives an idea of how it's going. Unfortunately I'm back to work tomorrow so its all going to have to wait until next weekend until I can get on this again
Mark
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I don't know about rough it all looks rather neat to me, ahh work the modellers curse, I remember that, don't have to worry about that these days of course there is a price to pay "" AGE"" %%
Joe.
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Thanks Joe I know all about the modellers curse {-) All of these parts are straight off the rough sanding using 80 grit and are as rough as a badgers........well you know what I mean {-) I couldn't see the point of going further if they are not correct.
They have just "clipped" together which I think is a good sign but as always I need to get to the finer sanding to see if they are up to spec. I hope so as if not I'll have to park this build as at present I don't think I can do any better. I can honestly say that I am at the limit of my carpentry skills and I'm ok with that. If I need to build another boat before this then so be it - It'll be a Riva if thats the case.
Hopefully have a really positive update over the weekend :-))
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Hi All
At last some positive news - 10 of the 11 frames have turned out ok %% The only reason I had to bin frame 6 was because I just sanded a little bit too much off of the bevel. It's just one of those things as once the wood is off there's no going back unfortunately. I'll remake that frame when I make the next batch.
So here's a stack of 10 instead of 11 frames {-) They are now bevelled to the drawings but the final fairing will be done once they are all installed which at this rate will be in 2025 {-) Hopefully you can start to see the shape of the hull
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/09/IMG_4029.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/09/IMG_4028.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/09/IMG_4027.jpg)
I've left the top timbers slightly long as I'll trim these towards the end of the build. I would hate to leave one accidentally short! Although they are still a bit rough here's some pictures of how they will sit on the rising wood. I have to say that I got some real satisfaction making these and oh they are a bit crooked as they are just balanced on my little jig that I made
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/09/IMG_4024.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/09/IMG_4025.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/09/IMG_4023.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/09/IMG_4026.jpg)
So before I start on the next frames there are a couple of jobs that I still need to do on these ones. I need to make and install the bolts that held the frames together and I've got a piece of ebony wood to make these. I've never used ebony before so that will be a new experience but it looks beautiful and wow its heavy for its size. I also need to cut two rebates into each frame for the lower frame spacers.
Cheers - from a very happy Mark :-)
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Really wonderful work. I salute you sir :-))
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yeah nice job Mark, keep going mate, :-))
Joe
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Looking good, ebony is a lovely wood but can be a bit tricky to work, keep going sir :-))
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Dougal, Joe and Phil thanks lads! Its been nice to move forward a bit on this build and actually have some pieces that look ship like.
I need to make the ebony into 0.6mm bolts for scale and I've never used it before. It actually looks too nice to cut up but hey ho......I might try and run it through a draw plate if not it's going in square. If it won't cut that small I do have some brass but I'll let you know how I get on and thanks for the support.
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Hi Mark I was wondering if you could used carbon fiber rod if the ebony fails but I think it only starts at 1mm
Joe
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Hi Mark I was wondering if you could used carbon fiber rod if the ebony fails but I think it only starts at 1mm
Joe
Now that's an excellent idea - I'll keep that one as my failsafe - cheers Joe O0
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The disadvantage of CF or brass is that conventional PVA glue would not provide an adequate bond........[even if abbraded]
I believe wire drawing plates go down to 0.26mm diameter, however these have different hole geometry to Trunnel wooden drawing plates, and 0.6mm diameter wooden pegs even in Ebony would also have high tensile, but have low shear [or splitting] strength
So whilst oversize @ a nominal 2mm diameter, pre-cut wooden toothpicks have a high shear strength, and would slurp :P up the PVA and not be seen when cut & shaved off
Derek
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Draw plates? I googled. I understood. I love to learn something new every day and this one was before breakfast. Those frames are a work of art themselves. Well done matey.
Jerry C.
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Derek and Jerry thanks for the comments lads. These bolts are simply for show as I don't need to build any strength into these frames. Trust me I take great delight in snapping them in two when they are not right. It takes a lot of effort to actually break them but the crack is very satisfying {-)
I rechecked my measurements and I'm glad that I did as these bolts need to be 0.5mm to be to scale. Machining the one way went OK
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/10/IMG_4032.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/10/IMG_4031.jpg)
But the other way to make it 0.5mm x 0.5mm - well what can I say. I made a load of mess and not a lot of decent pieces. Its just too small even for a 0.5mm wide blade in the saw. I tried the draw plate too but the ebony didn't really like it and kept on snapping. Talking of draw plates - the wire type that jewellers use extrudes the metal and is no good what so ever for wood. You need a wood draw plate that cuts on the way through - here's mine with a piece of ebony sticking out that is 0.5mm in diameter and you pull it away from the engraved numbers.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/10/IMG_4030.jpg)
So I know when I'm beaten and have taken Joe's advice. I've ordered some 0.5mm carbon rod which will do nicely. Upwards and onwards O0
Mark
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The carbon rod arrived so I gave it a try and its turned out really nice :-)) I used canopy glue to hold them in but I don't think it needed it as they were quite a tight fit.. The monograph says that there are 3 x 14mm bolts in each area where the parts overlap so thats 6 bolts for each timber.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/12/IMG_4035.jpg)
I've also cut the notches for the floor timber chocks which are 0.5mm deep and 7mm wide
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/12/IMG_4034.jpg)
So I think I can park these frames now until installation. I'm now going to start on the last 4 bow square frames and they are rising frames. They are of a different construction to the frames that I've already made - a picture tells a thousand words
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/12/IMG_4037.jpg)
They also sit on the stem so the rising wood also rises with them and they sit on a mortise. I'll be leaving the mortise out {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/12/IMG_4038.jpg)
I've looked at the plans so many times for these 4 frames and the drawings don't quite make sense to me. So I'm just going to have a go at building them - hopefully it will make more sense when I start cutting some wood up
Cheers Mark :-)
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Hi Mark this all looks delightfully complicated should give the old grey matter a work out and I have to compliment you on your illustrated photos.
Joe.
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Hi Joe - yes it is mate simply because this is my first fully framed ship. With instructions I'm pretty much used to seeing what it is I need to do on one sheet. With plans however I'm having to constantly cross reference to check my understanding and dimensions. I love this sort of thing as your right it really makes me think and try and solve 3D puzzles in my brain. The trouble is I think you need a 64 meg ram memory and I'm still running an old 386 {-) I still haven't worked out the rising frames so I'll have another look tomorrow. Thanks for the tip on the carbon - that properly saved me :-))
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Well I've definitely had a problem this week but also managed to solve it with a bit of help :-))
This has been my desk - no wood to play with just plans and callipers and utter confusion
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/17/IMG_4041.jpg)
My problem has been understanding the rising frame drawings. Now that I know how to read them it's quite obvious but I was stuck for days. The problem is pictured below. At first glance it looks like the frame sits on the rising wood at point A. It doesn't - it actually makes contact with the rising wood at point C which is level horizontally with point B on the drawing. That makes sense - however point C is too wide for the rising wood so what's going on???
It turns out that what looks like the rising wood at point A is just a piece of draughtsman's licence and doesn't actually represent the rising wood at all. Maybe its just easier to draw it that way but it certainly gave me a headache {:-{
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/17/IMG_4039.jpg)
To complicate matters a bit further frames 1 and 2 do not sit level on the rising wood either
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/17/IMG_4040.jpg)
Confused - you should be as I was {-)
Anyway lets actually have a go at making these frames. I cut the patterns out of wood as before and started by making sure that I had the correct angle where they sit. I did this by photocopying the rising wood and used this as a template. Its a nice feeling when the wood and paper literally click together
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/17/IMG_4043.jpg)
The second stage of assembly - the parts with the yellow stripe marked 1 are actually 2 pieces that meet vertically in the middle. The butt joint there is a real pain <*<
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/17/IMG_4044.jpg)
The finished assembly
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/17/IMG_4045.jpg)
Then I bevelled the inside - such a waste of wood but hey ho!
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/17/IMG_4046.jpg)
I then bevelled the outside and I now have my first rising frame
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/17/IMG_4047.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/17/IMG_4048.jpg)
Its actually quite slender but very strong :-)) So I've 3 more rising frames to make but this is the most heavily bevelled one. It's not finished as its only rough sanded and still needs the bolts inserted. Its challenging yet for some reason extremely satisfying work
Mark
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Hi Mark, I'm glad you can read the plans cos I'm dammed if I could, that frame is more like a sculpture talk about patience, she sure is going to be shapely.
Joe.
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Hi Joe - you would be able to read these plans no problem mate. The monograph is so detailed that it pretty much explains everything to you. I have to take my hat off to Ancre as the effort that has gone into the book and plans is amazing. This is one of their smallest easiest ships to build so I can only imagine what a first class ship of the line would be like. I'll hopefully have another update later this week and thanks for the interest :-))
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A bit more done; I've now finished the 4 rising frames at the bow.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/23/IMG_4049.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/23/IMG_4050.jpg)
And now I have a stack of 15 forward frames that are all just about complete for the time being
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/23/IMG_4052.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/23/IMG_4053.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/01/23/IMG_4051.jpg)
I now need to start making the frames towards the stern of which there are 17. I'll update this thread once I've made a good start into them as its pretty much the same as the work carried out so far. If anything pops up I'll let you know
Mark
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Looking great Mark you can start to get an idea of the hull shape, very nice mate keep it coming.
Joe.
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Beautiful work. :-))
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Thanks both of you for the encouragement :-)) I've been putting in the 900 bolts for these frames and its a bit slow going. It's also dawned on me that I need about 16m of carbon rod to complete this once waste has been taken into account. I ordered 2m so I guess my career as a quantity surveyor has ended before it begun {-) Hopefully by next weekend I'll have them all in and then I can move on.
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Work of art Matey. Do the carbon fibre bolts serve a function in holding things together or just visual? If not functional then one technique was Indian ink which will stand proud of the timber but be visible. I considered doing this instead of nails and rooves
on Wear’s planking as the scale made real ones impractical. I didn’t bother as glued construction came in just after WW2.
Jerry C.
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Thanks Jerry :-)) They are only for show and I did think about just marking them on like you have suggested. But then I did one with the carbon and its just looks so nice so I've got to continue. Well next week anyway once a new stock arrives as I've completely run out now
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Not much to report on this build I'm afraid - I discovered an error in frame number 1 so I have now remade this frame. I'm currently working my way through the frame bolts all 900 of them. So far I've used 4 metres of carbon rod but I'm nearly there.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/07/IMG_4054.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/07/IMG_4055.jpg)
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You got some patience Mark, 900 pins I think I'd be using a black marker pen by now %%
Joe
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You got some patience Mark, 900 pins I think I'd be using a black marker pen by now %%
Joe
Ha ha I did think about it Joe - the trouble is when I sand down the pins they look so realistic I just have to go this way. The good news is I've just fitted PIN number 900 so thats job done now. I just need to clean them all up and put them into storage :-))
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Incredible craftsmanship Mark 8)
I believe you don't do Facebook but this guy is worth joining for. One of many of his pictures.
(https://scontent-lhr8-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/87295004_2742334225994549_2429457880299077632_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=3&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=O-nTHj9U-DUAX-tCNcJ&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-2.xx&oh=13e6c1696573248027f5a3c66b23e7fd&oe=605089FC)
Giorgio
(https://scontent-lhr8-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/87231009_2742331572661481_6878590274314960896_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=3&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=SIXUGgo5az8AX8_cFcg&_nc_oc=AQmh_M9iDxldT4NXWTpehjhu5HdZmS2o6HV30-ZHRFDKie6T1f7xGQbHVhwKJy25JUc&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-2.xx&oh=2380deaec06e57ca6bad2d1be2d9e684&oe=6051FDDA)
See if this works https://www.facebook.com/100006539953001/videos/3067655746795727/
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That's not a model boat - that's a work of art :o .
Ray.
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It is indeed but just bigger! Mark’s is equally exacting but to fit his house 8)
Giorgio looks like he has all the proxxon kit in his workshop too in his many other pictures. His Facebook is public so anyone can see them
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Wow that's nice - I wonder how many years of work have gone into that ship O0 All he needs is an oar and he can row it up the river!
I've made some progress on mine and hopefully have an update at the weekend :-))
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Another small milestone in this build - I've now finished the aft frames from 16 - 27 O0 I still need to cut the slots for the frame spacers and fit all of the bolts but thats fine. I'm definitely getting better at making them as I cut out the parts for 12 frames and ended up with 12 frames %% I'll get some pictures up when I've done these other jobs too
Marking out and cutting the parts
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/21/IMG_4058.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/21/IMG_4059.jpg)
Finished frames
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/21/IMG_4069.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/21/IMG_4068.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/02/21/IMG_4070.jpg)
So that 27 frames made now only another 5 to make
Cheers Mark
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Crazy %% perfection :-)
I won't be attempting anything like this myself. It's great to see it being done O0
Wood is so nice when used like this
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With the frames stacked like that your photos give us a good idea of what you've been up against - great work Mark. :-))
Ray.
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Thanks lads - it's coming on slowly but surely. Its definitely improving my carpentry if nothing else {-)
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Hi All
Sorry for the lack of updates but I'm still on it. The frames that I made last have now had the rebates cut for the floor chocks and the bolts installed
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/27/IMG_4087.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/27/IMG_4090.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/27/IMG_4088.jpg)
I have also made a good start on the last 5 frames. These are the most complicated which is why I left them to last. The have several chocks which are quite small to make and as I discovered its easy to mess them up.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/27/IMG_4093.jpg)
Here they are glued together - it would be so easy to make these as one piece but then the grain would be running in the wrong direction. Funnily enough none of this detail will be seen on the finished ship.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/27/IMG_4094.jpg)
The final 5 frames - frame 29,30 and 31 are made of 13 individual pieces. You can see frame 28 here after I have bevelled it.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/27/IMG_4100.jpg)
So plenty of progress and I've very nearly finished the frames :-))
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I'm finding this fascinating. Regarding the fact that very little, if any, of your work will be seen on the finished article - you will have the satisfaction of knowing how much accurate work went into it all. Plus, a lot of people reading this blog will also know the quality of your work.
Great work Mark. :-))
Ray.
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I am in awe of your precision and patience, not to mention your commitment to get it exactly right. Bravo, and thank you for taking us along on the trip.
Greg
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Ray and Greg have said it all I can only agree with them :-))
Joe.
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Hi Ray, Greg and Joe :-) Cheers lads :-))
This is a bit of a strange build for me as each frame throws up its own problems. But to post each problem would just be boring to read it's more of a builders thing. I'm so used to putting up lots of posts with each stage but this build is not going to be like that it would just be too repetitive.
I think that once the frames are made and I get onto the keel things will get a bit more interesting for the reader. It will also look more like a ship too. I have to say though I'm enjoying the challenge very much O0
Thanks for the encouragement - Mark
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What can I say..well nothing it has all been said...awesome work (well I had to add something) :-))
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Hi Phil - nice one {-) Seriously thanks for the nice comments :-))
I think I need to put this build into a bit of context so here are a couple of pictures of what I'm trying to achieve. This will hopefully make sense of all of the frames
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/28/IMG_4106.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/28/IMG_4108.jpg)
Today I've finished shaping and bevelling frame 32. I don't do them in number order I just do the one I pick up first. I've found that I can do one a day as this one took about 6 hours of sanding. I've also labelled up the parts of the frame which I think adds a bit more interest. I can guarantee you that I got some of the names wrong though {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/28/IMG_4102-1.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/28/IMG_4103-1.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/28/IMG_4104-1.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/03/28/IMG_4105-1.jpg)
Cheers Mark :-)
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Thanks for the update Mark, those labelled photos do help in understanding the profiles of the frames O0
Ray.
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Congratulations, outstanding woodwork. :-)) :-)) :-))
Wilhelm
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I know futtock is the entirely correct term for those sections of frame, but whenever I see the that word, I can't help thinking of Round the Horne and Kenneth Williams' alter ego J Peasmold Gruntfuttock.
{-) {-) (I hope you forgive the off-topic diversion)
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Ray; Wilhelm thanks very much :-))
Greg I can see them now back in the 16th century looking at their first frame
Shipwright - "So what do you reckon on that piece of woodwork then; what shall we call it"
Shipowner - "Well the shape of it reminds me of my wife's buttocks"
Shipwright - "If you call it that mate your a braver man then me"
{-) {-) {-)
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I know futtock is the entirely correct term for those sections of frame, but whenever I see the that word, I can't help thinking of Round the Horne and Kenneth Williams' alter ego J Peasmold Gruntfuttock.
{-) {-) (I hope you forgive the off-topic diversion)
More likely one carpenter saying to another "that was futtock to carve right"
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The most possible origin I have found is that it came from the old english or dutch words meaning foot hook.
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The most possible origin I have found is that it came from the old english or dutch words meaning foot hook.
I would have gone for Old Norse of futt = big & oks = oaks or ek = timber
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Absolutely beautiful work Mark T a credit to you O0 .
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Absolutely beautiful work Mark T a credit to you O0 .
Thanks Brian :-))
I've now finished the final 5 frames; they have their bolts and notches for the chocks all in. I really enjoyed making these 5 as they were by far the hardest frames to make.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/10/IMG_4119.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/10/IMG_4120.jpg)
So thats all 32 frames made and hopefully when installed they will be ok. Just a few facts about these frames so that I can remember in years to come
1. There are 308 individual parts in the 32 frames
2. There are 1930 scale bolts fitted which took 12 metres of carbon rod
3. I had to remake 15 frames as my first attempt was not good enough
Here's a very wonkey stack of all of the frames - sorry it was the best I could do %%
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/10/IMG_4123.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/10/IMG_4125.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/10/IMG_4124.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/10/IMG_4121.jpg)
So my next job is to make a start on the keel which I'll start tomorrow. I just need to work out my wood sizes from the scantlings in the monograph.
Cheers for hanging on in there on this one - Mark :-)
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Cheers for hanging on in there on this one - Mark :-)
Wouldn't want to miss future updates Mark :o
Ray.
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Outstanding work. :-))
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(http://24.media.tumblr.com/b80cfcd98f163d6ff190488f3985e7e5/tumblr_mftih9viwe1rvzu9do1_400.gif)
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What can I say but impressive, it looks like a sculpture standing on the table which It is really.
Joe.
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Ray, Dougal, Greg and Joe thanks very much lads :-)) A bit of a milestone has passed on this one O0
I've been photocopying the plans for the keel parts of which there are many. The keelson looks really hard to make but I'll do my usual and tackle one piece at a time.
Thanks for the encouragement :-)
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I've made a start on the keel and so far so good. Its getting quite similar for me now - first I find the wood sizes in the scantlings and then scale them down to 1/24. In the keels case this translated into strips of wood that are 11.25mm x 10.125mm. So I cut those and then stuck on the photocopy plans and discovered that as they are so long they stretch very easily. This would throw the plans out so I just kept on checking on the master plan that all was the correct length.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/11/IMG_4126.jpg)
I then cut the scarf joints on the mill - These are such good little machines I would recommend these all day long O0 I'm not using and end mill here this is a 1/4 diameter router bit. It rips away wood at an amazing rate.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/11/IMG_4127.jpg)
Here's the joint open and closed - It still needs a bit of a tickle before gluing at a later date but its my first one and I'll take that result {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/11/IMG_4128.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/11/IMG_4129.jpg)
I'll finish these parts tomorrow; I need to cut a square tenon hole for the sternpost and then cut the rabbet for the planking. Then I can start moving forward towards the bow.
Mark :-)
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It's a pity all this construction detail will br hiden inside what will no doubt a beautiful craft but you will have the great satisfaction of knowing the pains taken work that went into it.
Joe.
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It's a pity all this construction detail will br hiden inside what will no doubt a beautiful craft but you will have the great satisfaction of knowing the pains taken work that went into it.
Joe.
Your not wrong Joe - There have been so many bits so far that I could have easily made out of one piece and saved myself so much hassle. I decided when I started this build that I wanted to make it as per the original 16th century plans. I'll see if I feel the same next year {-) Thanks for the comment mate :-))
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A bit more done today. Firstly I cut the square mortice for the stern post and also the rabbet for the planking on the two straight pieces of keel.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/12/IMG_4130.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/12/IMG_4131.jpg)
Next I made the forefoot and the stem which was easy enough after I had thicknessed some wood for the job.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/12/IMG_4132.jpg)
It then took me all morning and afternoon adjusting the scarf joints to get the keel parts to align exactly with the plan. This was much harder than I thought it would be but I got there eventually. They are now glued together on a nice flat granite surface and also a metal 1 metre rule to make sure its all nice and straight. You can never ever have enough clamps {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/12/IMG_4134.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/12/IMG_4135.jpg)
I've also made my first lot of tree nails for the scarf joints. They are box wood and 1mm in diameter - I cut the wood as small as I could on the table saw and then pulled them through a draw plate. They will be invisible but will add strength to the scarf joints.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/12/IMG_4133.jpg)
I've just realised I'm not sure what the next job is I'll have to look at the plans
Mark :-)
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Considering the amount of work needed on the keel, I'd suggest you've achieved a damn good day's work mate. :-))
Ray.
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Considering the amount of work needed on the keel, I'd suggest you've achieved a damn good day's work mate. :-))
Ray.
You know what Ray I feel like I have too today and thanks for the comment mate O0 Things fit today which is always a great result. I think there's about another 12 pieces to complete the keel including the rising wood, sternson, keelson, sternpost, false sternpost, stemson and goodness knows what else {-) I'll keep you up to date as I work my way through it all :-))
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Would the scarf joints in the keel not be bolted rather than trenailed? These needed to be held together very tightly for full strength.
Jim
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Would the scarf joints in the keel not be bolted rather than trenailed? These needed to be held together very tightly for full strength.
Jim
Hi Jim you would have thought so wouldn't you but no. The original plans state that each scarf joint on the keel had 3 tree nails of 20mm diameter. Also each joint was sealed (I guess with tar) so I can only presume, as I don't really know that it must have been something to do with corrosion.
The keelson is simply nailed to the keel too which is is its opposite half. I wish they were bolts as I could use carbon again rather than making tree nails.
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Hi Jim you would have thought so wouldn't you but no. The original plans state that each scarf joint on the keel had 3 tree nails of 20mm diameter. Also each joint was sealed (I guess with tar) so I can only presume, as I don't really know that it must have been something to do with corrosion.
The keelson is simply nailed to the keel too which is is its opposite half. I wish they were bolts as I could use carbon again rather than making tree nails.
The tar was to stop water getting into the joint and causing rot, this would leave a very weak keel.If you want to see what happens to a wooden hull due to rot you should look at the You Tube channel Sailing Yabá where they a rebuilding a Brazilian schooner allowed to sit without maintenance.
Jim
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Thanks Jim I thought it was tar but its nice to know I was right :-))
A bit more done today as the keel had dried nicely overnight. First was to drill and fit the treenails into the scarf joints. This went ok
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/13/IMG_4136.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/13/IMG_4137.jpg)
Next I made the sternpost which is set at an angle. This involved making the mortice for the tenon in the keel and also the rabbet for the planking had to be cut. I also made the false sternpost which sits behind the sternpost. I have no idea why but this is the way it was built.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/13/IMG_4139.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/13/IMG_4140.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/13/IMG_4138.jpg)
And now its all been glued to the keel and hopefully I'll get it all cleaned up tomorrow. I can then start on the rising wood which is what the frames sit on.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/13/IMG_4141.jpg)
Mark :-)
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Next I made the sternpost which is set at an angle. This involved making the mortice for the tenon in the keel and also the rabbet for the planking had to be cut. I also made the false sternpost which sits behind the sternpost. I have no idea why but this is the way it was built.
Mark :-)
I would expect the false sternpost to be sacrificial, easier to replace if damaged, the real sternpost has the transom frames mounted to it.
Jim
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Now that makes sense Jim :-)) I guess with either rot or collision this would be the easier option. Mind you its job with its 7 crew and one boy was to carry gun powder. I reckon if something went wrong they would need a new boat {-)
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Also would the hinges for the rudder be connected to this sacrificial stern post, with the stresses and strains of the rudder, would that not deteriorate the structure as well
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Also would the hinges for the rudder be connected to this sacrificial stern post, with the stresses and strains of the rudder, would that not deteriorate the structure as well
The arms on the hinges would extend to the true sternpost so they would be bolted to both. I would expect the false sternpost to be bolted to the true one making a strong structure. However as this is quite a small boat they may just have used trenails as in the keel. Looking at larger hulls they generally had the post bolted through to the transom frames and the deadwood creating a very strong structure.
Jim
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Thanks for the info lads its this sort of thing that brings a build to life. Jim you are spot on this is a very small boat - It had a crew of 7 men and 1 boy when working. It must have been extremely cramped for them all.
The sternpost has turned out ok and now the keel parts are complete. It did forget to put a tar line under the false sternpost but I'll put a bit of paint there at a later date. I'm glad to say that it exactly matches the plan - If it didn't could you imagine the amount of corrections involved for the rest of the build!
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/14/IMG_4142.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/14/IMG_4143.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/14/IMG_4144.jpg)
I've now made a start on the stern rising wood and also the part that the transom parts fit onto. Here are the first two parts and there's plenty more to do. I did make the mistake of drilling the holes 3mm when the holes in the frames are 2mm. Oh well not to worry I'll enlarge the holes in the frames when it comes to fitting them.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/14/IMG_4145.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/14/IMG_4147.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/14/IMG_4146.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/14/IMG_4148.jpg)
These two parts both need tapering and I need to put some thought into how I'm going to do this without ruining them. I'll have a think about that tomorrow
Mark :-)
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Great work, Mark one of your next jobs has to be a set of scale shipwrights for when the hull is being assembled
Jim.
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Thanks Jim they would certainly add something to the pictures O0 I'm hoping to get staring to assemble maybe in June but we'll see how I get on :-))
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Today I made the sternpost knee extension which is quite tricky to make. It has many notches of differing angles and then has to be tapered toward the stern and also down toward the keel. I started by milling out the notches
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/IMG_4149.jpg)
Next I marked out the tapers and got on with the job. You can see how deep I had to taper as there is a small triangle left on either side which shows the original thickness. This small triangle is part of the planking rabbet.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/IMG_4152.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/IMG_4153.jpg)
Next I rough assembled the sternpost knee assembly as the two other parts that I had previously made also required tapering too.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/IMG_4150.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/IMG_4151.jpg)
Finally the whole lot was blended together
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/IMG_4154.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/IMG_4155.jpg)
Here it is just sitting in its place on the keel - Its now all glued together and I'll get the clamps off in the morning. Thats a full 9 hours work there %%
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/15/IMG_4156.jpg)
Mark :-)
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I got some more done today. Firstly I had to correct an omission on my part. The rising wood had a different width for the two halves of the frames. I forgot to narrow the part that the floor frame sits on but luckily for on 3 of the frames.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/16/IMG_4157.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/16/IMG_4158.jpg)
Next I made another tricky part - the lower apron and the apron. The lower apron it the base for the frames that rise up at the stem and the apron sits on top of this behind the stem. Its now clamped up and I'm waiting for the glue to dry.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/16/IMG_4160.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/16/IMG_4161.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/16/IMG_4162.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/16/IMG_4163.jpg)
My next job will be to concentrate on the rabbet that runs up the stem. I need to put some thought into this as I think I will just have to carve it out by hand.
Mark :-)
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Perfection at its best Mark T O0 :-)) .
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Perfection at its best Mark T O0 :-)) .
Hi Brian and thanks but don't forget I take the photos and do the lighting too {-) I have to ask you though - when you cut a scarf do you need to jiggle/adjust them to get them right because I do but I've only just started cutting them - or do they just go straight together for you. Any tips would be very welcome mate O0
I've now cut the rabbet for the planking up the stem and also on the keel. I find this work very time consuming but also very worthwhile and pleasing. I like the way the rabbet runs under the lower apron it just looks nice. Talking of which I do have a small gap between the stem and the apron even though I scribed the two parts together. I need to learn from this and improve.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/17/IMG_4164.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/17/IMG_4165.jpg)
I did make a mistake as I marked out the rabbet far too wide - luckily I realised this after having cut about an 1 1/2 down the stem so I inlayed a piece of wood and started again. I think the repair turned out OK and of course only we know about this ok2
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/17/IMG_4166.jpg)
I've also noticed that I need to do a little more work on the stern rabbet and I'll have a go at that in the morning. I feel like I'm starting to get somewhere now O0
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/17/IMG_4167.jpg)
The good new is I'm back to work next week so I'll be building at my usual snails pace {-)
Cheers everyone - Mark :-)
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Hi Mark T, same here ,doesn't matter how many accurate measurements when marking out a scarfing joint, maybe 1 or 2 spot on but generally have to shave a bit off here or there to obtain that satisfying joint. With the rabbet line inlay I would call that a dam good save :-)) looks good to me O0 all I can say is Mark , thank goodness for photo's other wise we wouldn't be seeing the incredible workmanship you are putting into this model,cheers :-)) .
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Hi Brian and thanks sharing your experience and thanks for your comments too :-)) For some reason I always just want the scarfs to snap together but at this small scale I do have to fettle them and sometimes make them again. I'm really glad its not just me %% I'm really getting into this small scale carpentry its so nice when it just "fits" but I've loads to learn.
I was lucky with the inlay as I was using a 45 degree router bit which gave me a perfect surface to glue another piece of wood too. I'm just glad that I realised and stopped. I often put the work down for a few hours when something like this happens, so that I can try and work out the best thing to do rather than panic and make it worse.
Today has been a cleaning day %% It was time to give my workshop a really deep clean as I've been making loads of dust. I work indoors so its only right that I keep it all under control. I did revisit the sternpost rabbet and adjusted it a bit - it now has a much more smooth transition. This may seem like a small thing to do but I remember my last build and I found that getting the rabbet correct made the planking just that little bit easier to do.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/18/IMG_4168.jpg)
Back to work in the morning :(( The alarm is set for 02:30 but I've enjoyed my week off
Mark :-)
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Sorry, what time was that? The only 2.30 I recognise is shortly after lunch. I don't need an alarm to remind me of lunchtime, my stomach does an excellent job. :-))
Well, I hope you can still find time for the odd bit of wood engineering. I wait eagerly for the first frames to be erected and we can see the outline of that fine hull.
Hope work goes well!
Greg
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Just been looking over the build log Mark.
Awesome workmanship...!
Can't wait for you to finish, so we can see what you can do with a Riva build... :-))
David.
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Mark no need to worry over the need to fettle your scarf joints as even the full size professional shipwrights do this. When Leo at Sampson Boat Co. was making the scarf joints in rebuilding Tally Ho they were always cut oversize and trimmed down to fit.
Jim
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Thanks for all of the advice and comments lads :-))
Now - Disaster {:-{
I knew this would happen at some point and I guess its better to happen now than later. Today I was going to make the last two parts of the rising wood and finish the keel assembly. I thought that I had best check again the work that I had done and found a big error.
Now the thing thats troubling me is I'm not sure how this has happened. I placed my work on the plan like I have many times before and the stem is completely wrong. Its 1.65mm out of kilter which is way too much to carry on or correct. Its a bit like building a house with un-level foundations so I need to stop before going any further.
The last time I placed the keel on the plan it was correct and now it's not? I think I may have over clamped the apron and bent the stem but I'm unsure. Here's a picture of the problem.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/04/24/IMG_4170.jpg)
This cannot be fixed :(( So the keel is scrap now as too much going forward relies on this being absolutely spot on.
So it's been sitting in a bath of IPA to try and salvage some of the parts but so far nothing's budged. My joints are possibly too tight for the IPA to do its job and separate the individual parts. I'll let you know how I get on but it looks like a full keel rebuild at the moment.
Hey ho - these things are sent to try us - but its got to be right O0 Leave it with me and I'll keep you posted. Luckily I have a good wood supplier %%
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That's a great pity Mark after all that work, now I know how meticulous you are but, and this is just a suggestion, it looks like the bow end and it's not got to move much to put on the right line, so I would cut about 3/4 though or enough to let it flex onto the line and glue a slither in the resulting gap as the very rough drawing, like I said Mark just a suggestion to maybe save an awful lot more painstaking work. {:-{
Joe
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Hi Joe
Me and you are on the same page mate :-)) I really thought about doing this - but I just can't.
For me at this moment it's not about fixing it to get it done its trying to understand what I did wrong. I just cannot fathom how this has moved so much in the week I've been at work. Its obviously my fault and I'm really ok with that I'm just a bit flummoxed! Even my wife said that it was perfect before so what's happened.
If I don't remake it I'll just look back in a couple of years and wish that I had.
I'm hoping to salvage some of the harder bits to make but if not so be it. Its just one of those things I guess mate - it makes for a pretty repetitive build log though.
Thanks again Joe - Mark :-)
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Totally understand Mark and more power to ya mate, I worked with wood all my working life and it is a law unto it's self and the more joints you have in a particular structure the more it is likely to move as the glue cures in each joint it shrinks a fraction so the sum shrinkage over all can sometimes be noticed, can I suggest the next time you get to the point of gluing the whole keel together put a brace between the two top ends while curing, and I hope I'm not teaching grandma to suck eggs, This is the most complicated build I've ever seen so don't worry if it gets repetitive I for one will be following :-))
Joe
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Totally agree with Joe's comments Mark, you've got what it takes to conquer this - skill and determination :-)) .
Ray.
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Surely if you over clamped it, it's possible to over clamp it the other way to correct? I thought that was one of the foibles of wood butchery? Sorry for my niavity in asking.
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Totally understand Mark and more power to ya mate, I worked with wood all my working life and it is a law unto it's self and the more joints you have in a particular structure the more it is likely to move as the glue cures in each joint it shrinks a fraction so the sum shrinkage over all can sometimes be noticed, can I suggest the next time you get to the point of gluing the whole keel together put a brace between the two top ends while curing, and I hope I'm not teaching grandma to suck eggs, This is the most complicated build I've ever seen so don't worry if it gets repetitive I for one will be following :-))
Joe
Thanks Joe and you are right in everything you say. Wood I is a new material for me as I've always been a metal worker. I'm going to make a brace and take your advice on this one. Funnily enough I don't feel down in anyway about this error I just see it as a learning curve. I must not force joints together they must sit as they are made. I've never really understood the stresses in wood in all honesty but I'm learning them now the hard way. If I do have to make it all again well I do! Thanks for the advice and support :-))
Totally agree with Joe's comments Mark, you've got what it takes to conquer this - skill and determination :-)) .
Ray.
Thanks Ray - That means a lot today mate :-)) I will sort this out no matter what. It would be so simple just to carry on but it wouldn't be right. I've always said its very important to show the mistakes as well as the wins O0
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Surely if you over clamped it, it's possible to over clamp it the other way to correct? I thought that was one of the foibles of wood butchery? Sorry for my niavity in asking.
Hi mate - you would think so and I have really tried to manipulate this back to shape. But as its all glued together, when I pull it straight the stresses just end up lifting the keel upwards. So then I would need to clamp the keel down to fit the frames - and so on. It's just one of those things thats just wrong. I should have placed the frame on the plan when I glued in the apron but I didn't. All I managed to do (I think) is put loads of stresses into the entire structure by not doing this. The knock on effects have really surprised me but it seems thats just the way it is. I'll never do it again though :embarrassed:
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Fairy muff. It looked too simple on the pic! I'd have lived with it but it's not my build. Most stuff I use has worse distortion when it comes in the post but can pull back out again.if it's not right then it's not right.
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Mark, the fact that it was “right” once means it can be “right” again. Think of building the real one, in a yard. Wood moves, that’s why it such a good material to build boats with. If it didn’t move, trust me, the sea would break it. As a kid in Pwllheli I spent days watching wooden boats being built. They used steel jacks to hold bits into position. Obviously it only achieves full strength when everything comes together as one. Certainly, clamp the keel down to an solid surface and then support the bad bit in position and only remove the support when you have to. A little steam wouldn’t go amiss either. It’s probably caused by the season change. Even we perfectionists can go too far!
Jerry C.
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If you do go down the remake route you could remake just the defective part, cutting 3/4 of the original part off and trim back the old part to the joint and its glue i.e. get back to the keel in a state it was before fitting the defective part, the other reason for complete rebuild would be to rectify the mistakes made in the other parts of the keel if this is why you wanted to replace the whole lot, though in a ship yard they would have just replaced the faulty bit or made it fit by adding a new piece to it or adjusting the plan.
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Hi lads and thanks for the comments :-))
I worked out last night that it was definitely when I glued the apron on the problem occurred. So last night the whole thing was placed in a bath of IPA to try and release the glue. Unfortunately this did not work - in fact not one of the joints became any more loose. So the next option was to persuade it a bit and you've guessed it - snap! Its really quite fragile in places.
Its no big deal really as I've loads of wood and plenty of time. I'll pick this build back up on here once I get back to where I was
Mark :-)
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Like I said, it may have been better than having to make the whole thing again to have cut the offending piece off as close to the nearest joint, but as it's now broke you have the opportunity to remedy the issues you had.
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So just a quick update as I always like to let you know about my stupid mistakes.
I photocopied the plans as before and cut out the rough outline of the pieces in boxwood. Guess what - my photocopier has elongated the images and it looks like the flipping thing is broken. The outcome is I now have another set of useless parts >:-o >>:-(
So not to be outdone I've popped into my local library and copied them there. The people in the library were ultra helpful too and these images are much more accurate.
Don't anyone ever say that I don't have patience {-) {-) {-) Bear with me I'll get there :-) I have had to order a little more wood too but thats just the way it goes sometimes O0
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I think you have patience in abundance, I would have chucked me toys out of the pram way back. %% %%
Joe
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I think you have patience in abundance, I would have chucked me toys out of the pram way back. %% %%
Joe
Ha ha I did Joe - but then I got back in my pram {-)
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Hi All
Take two {-)
I've now completely remade all of the keel parts - nothing was reused. It's taken me quite a while to do this as I discovered a small printing error on my plans. Not on the main assembled plan but on one of the exploded away parts. It took me quite a while to work this out but I'm glad I did.
Pics of the keel which is now as straight as a die :-))
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/20/IMG_4187.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/20/IMG_4188.jpg)
The only added part is the stem knee head and I've also pre-cut the saddle for the bowsprit. I reckon that its easier to do at this stage rather than later.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/20/IMG_4189.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/20/IMG_4190.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/20/IMG_4191.jpg)
So back on track and I'm now going to make the rising wood which sits on top of the keel. This is the parts that all of the frames lock onto.
Cheers Mark :-)
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Hey Mark
Beautiful piece of work. I think you can stop there and just put it on the mantlepiece... :-))
David.
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Thanks David it's starting to come on now. I have spent about 7 hours on the mill today (I'm furloughed again) making the rising wood.
I'll get some pictures up tomorrow which hopefully will show the way this build is going rather than just pieces of wood.
-
I've now finished the rising wood which was quite a nice piece to make. The shorter of the two pieces was the hardest as it get thicker as it gets nearer to the stem.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4192.jpg)
I lined them up using the plans and located them using tree nails. This made the gluing up nice and easy.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4193.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4195.jpg)
Before gluing them on they had to be tapered on the underside as they form part of the rabbet for the garboard plank.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4196.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4197.jpg)
Finally I trial fitted a couple of frames which were very snug. I gave them a quick go with a file and they fitted ok, but I may have to just widen the rising wood a bit to save me a lot of hassle when I assemble the frames. I was pleased with the joints though :-))
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4198.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4199.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4200.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4201.jpg)
My next job which I will start sometime over the weekend will be the wing transom which looks like a particularly awkward part. I'll let you know how I get on
Cheers Mark :-)
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Wow mark,
that's perfect precision work again.
That’s great. :-))
Ralf
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Hi Ralf - thanks very much :-))
Just a few more pictures of frames 13 - 1 roughly sitting on the rising wood. They are not lined up accurately but I thought it gives an impression of how the bow end is going to look.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4202.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4205.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4203.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/05/21/IMG_4204.jpg)
Mark
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The work you have put into her so far Mark, credit to you ,cheers.
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Your patience is paying off Mark I'm begining to get an idea what the hull will look like. :-))
Joe
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Hi Brian and Joe
Thanks for the comments lads and I'm pretty pleased with my progress now :-)) [size=78%] [/size]
I started the wing transom and quickly realised that the best way to make this part would be if I could tip my mill vice at an angle. I could use the bandsaw and then file its complicated shape but I think that it would probably take quite a few tries to get it right.
Its a big piece and I'm aware of how much wood I'm going through so if I can I only want to make it once. So I've ordered an adjustable angle plate to allow me to angle my vice. Unfortunately it may be a 3 week wait for the part but I'm going to wait for it.
In the meantime I'm making an assembly jig so that I can line the entire hull up properly. I'll get some photo's up as soon as its made
Mark :-)
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Hi All
Sorry for the lack of updates :(( I've ordered an adjustable angle plate to fit under my mill vice and it still hasn't arrived - apparently it will be with me in about two weeks so I have to be patient.
In the mean time I've built the assembly jig which was a bit of a project in itself. Its made up of two layers with the top layer following the widest part of the hull. I think the pictures kind of explain this better.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/05/IMG_4209.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/05/IMG_4210.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/05/IMG_4212.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/05/IMG_4213.jpg)
The hull is pretty much going to live in this jig for the next year so it really needed to be strong. Here's a few pictures with a few random frames put in. They fit quite well apart from the first 4 frames at the bow. I think this is because I've left a bit too much on them for their final shape but I'll cross that bridge later.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/05/IMG_4215.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/05/IMG_4216.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/05/IMG_4218.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/05/IMG_4217.jpg)
So hopefully I'll get my part soon and then I'll start on the wing transom
Mark :-)
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Such a complex build Mark, even the assembly jig must have taken a lot of patience to set up.
Joe
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Such a complex build Mark, even the assembly jig must have taken a lot of patience to set up.
Joe
Hi Joe - building it took a lot longer than I thought it would. Fortunately the plans are extremely comprehensive so setting it up was just a case of taking measurements from the plans and then adjusting to suit. Getting it all square was not too bad it just took a bit of jiggling O0 I just need this angle plate to arrive and I'm off milling again. Talking of which I've upgraded my mill so I'll be selling my old one soon :-))
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Beautiful workmanship! ✅✅✅
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Thanks Martin :-))
So for the past few weekends I been having a very enjoyable time catching up with the family O0 So this weekend I have eventually got around to having a go at making the wing transom. This is a particularly difficult piece to make due to its many angles and curves.
I was quite surprised by the really big piece of wood required to make this part and about 40% of it is turned to sawdust {:-{ So firstly template on and I cut the shape looking down from the top. Working out the angles especially of the locating slot took me quite a lot of head scratching.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/20/IMG_4222.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/20/IMG_4223.jpg)
Next the front template was glued on which allowed me to shape to from the front and rear.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/20/IMG_4224.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/20/IMG_4225.jpg)
Next the locating slots where cut and the bottom shaped
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/20/IMG_4226.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/20/IMG_4227.jpg)
The finished wing transom which I managed to damage the corner of.........oh well >>:-( It'll be ok
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/20/IMG_4228.jpg)
With the rabbet cut to receive the planking at a much later date
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/20/IMG_4229.jpg)
How it looks on the stern post
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/20/IMG_4230.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/20/IMG_4231.jpg)
I'm really pleased with it for a first attempt but wow it was hard to make. So my next jobs will be to complete the transom which I think needs another 8 or 9 pieces but I'll keep you updated
Cheers Mark :-)
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Hi All
I've now made a start on the other four transom pieces and so far so good :-))
Firstly I ran some wood through the thickness sander to get a piece that is 6.75mm thick. This is actually the thinnest piece of wood so far on the build.
I then did the usual of attaching the templates which were then cut and sanded to their outermost shape.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/26/IMG_4233.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/26/IMG_4234.jpg)
I've also made a start on milling out the angled and stepped rebate where each piece is locked into the sternpost knee extension.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/26/IMG_4235.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/26/IMG_4236.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/26/IMG_4237.jpg)
It's a really good tight fitting joint and on the original ship must have had tremendous strength.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/26/IMG_4238.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/26/IMG_4239.jpg)
So my next jobs are to rebate the other three pieces and then get them shaped up. I think this will be quite difficult as they have very steep tapered angles. I'll do my usual and just take my time.
Cheers Mark :-)
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I can only watch in awe Mark 8) fab u lous
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Cheers mate its certainly giving me some headaches - btw you've got all of this coming with your scratch build. Its demanding but for some weird reason very satisfying when you've actually worked out what the drawings mean {-)
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I’ve had great difficulties getting my head round all of this build. I’ve never seen anything as complicated. The paper templates stuck to the wood, do you cut them from the plans or do you copy them? If copied first are there any problems with scale changes from the copying? The hull appears to be almost solid framing to which the final planking will just seal the tiny gaps. What type of tools do you use in the mill? Are they for metal or specifically for wood? It’s fascinating but as it comes together things become a little clearer.
Jerry C.
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I’ve had great difficulties getting my head round all of this build. I’ve never seen anything as complicated. The paper templates stuck to the wood, do you cut them from the plans or do you copy them? If copied first are there any problems with scale changes from the copying? The hull appears to be almost solid framing to which the final planking will just seal the tiny gaps. What type of tools do you use in the mill? Are they for metal or specifically for wood? It’s fascinating but as it comes together things become a little clearer.
Jerry C.
Hi Jerry good to hear from you :-))
I photocopy the plans to get the templates to save the original plans. This works OK for small pieces but I have had an issue with long pieces as the photocopying alters them a bit. I did go to a printers and have some of the large parts copied professionally but even this altered the dimensions slightly. I've still not yet found a way of copying them exactly. This does cause me problems as I have to allow for these errors which is difficult.
You are right about the ships being nearly solidly framed and this was pretty much standard construction of this type of vessel. They only had one layer of planking on the outside which varied in thickness depending on where it was on the hull. As much detailed effort also was put in on the planking inside the hull too.
I'm using twin flute end mills which are good for soft metals and wood. I use twin flute as they get the chippings out go the way very quickly. They are made of tungsten carbide and I get about 10 hours milling out of them before they go blunt. Luckily they are fairly cheap due to the CNC industry who seem to use a lot of bits like this.
It will all start to make sense soon once I start the frame assembly :-)
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Thanks for that Mark. I’ve made a tool to hold my Dremel in my lathe tool holder. I’ve been searching for the right size grinding wheel to fit. Got one today in Bunnings (B&Q) so I can resharpen worn end mills using the lathe chuck as an indexer. Cheap and cheerful. I’m fitting my cheap DRO kit atm.
Keep up the good work matey.
Jerry C.
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I've got some more done today. I've now finished milling out the rebates and also turned the parts around as there was another rebate on the other side which required cutting.
I've also bevelled one of the parts which was a lot harder than I thought that it would be. Its the steep and varying angles which make it tricky but it turned out ok.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/27/IMG_4240.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/27/IMG_4241.jpg)
Here it is attached without glue to the sternpost knee extension
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/27/IMG_4243.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/06/27/IMG_4242.jpg)
I'll try and finish the other three parts next weekend
Mark :-)
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Words fail me Mark... but already there's a hint of what's to come - your ability to work in wood shows through and the project itself is fascinating... Good work mate :-))
Ray.
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Thanks Ray :-))
I've got some more done this weekend. I've now finished shaping the rest of the transom pieces.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/07/04/IMG_4251.jpg)
Here you can now see the shape of the transom which is starting to come together. The parts are only slotted in they are not yet glued in place.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/07/04/IMG_4252.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/07/04/IMG_4253.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/07/04/IMG_4254.jpg)
My next job is to make the two side pieces of the transom which tie all of the parts together. They are called the "fashion pieces" and look particularly tricky to make but I'll give them a go.
Cheers Mark :-)
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Hi all - sorry for the lack of updates but I started some decorating at home which has turned into a full blown building job so I'm fitting the ship building in-between.
So what have I been doing - well finding more patience than I thought that I would ever have.
I discovered that just because I had made the parts for the transom did not mean that they would all fit perfectly together. Wow what a challenge this turned into for me! To get all of the parts to line up so that all of the joints were nice a square and that the shape of the transom was also correct was far more difficult that I thought it would be.
I managed to pretty much ruin the first set of lower transom parts that I made in my efforts to get the fashion pieces to fit correctly. It then took a week of soaking in IPA to get them unstuck as the joints were tight without the glue.
So here is what I learnt - leave the templates on all of the parts after gluing them together so that you have a reference to what you are trying to sand too. Without them I was just sanding blind which just made things worse. Also leave enough on the parts for the fairing of them - I'm starting to get better at this.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/01/IMG_4269.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/01/IMG_4270.jpg)[/size][/font]
[/size]Anyway the results are in the pictures below and quite frankly I think that this is about the best I can do at this stage of my ship building experience. I have also added the small wedges that are required between the wing transom and the fashion pieces. The next job is to start installing the frames. Wow what a few weeks this has been however I have to admit I did enjoy doing it though!![/color]
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/01/IMG_4275.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/01/IMG_4276.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/01/IMG_4278.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/01/IMG_4277.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/01/IMG_4279.jpg)
:-))
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Simply stunning well done
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Simply stunning well done
Thanks - its coming on slowly :-)) The next stages will actually make it look like a ship!
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Hi All
I have at last started the installation of the frames :-)) Firstly though I had to re-work by building frame as I had followed the wrong line on the drawings. It was a days work but it needed to be right.
The very first frame glued to the rising wood - what a moment %%
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/09/IMG_4280.jpg)
Then I glued in the keelson chock which has a rebate cut into it which is part of the ships limber system. This allows water in the bilge to flow towards the pumps to be removed from the ship.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/09/IMG_4281.jpg)
Then the second frame was installed as well as the lower and upper frame chocks.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/09/IMG_4283.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/09/IMG_4285.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/09/IMG_4284.jpg)
The chocks will be shaped to the hull when I eventually get around to fairing the hull inside and out.
I've got 32 frames to install so I'll just do a few updates as I go along
Cheers Mark :-)
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Very high quality work and looking good.
Note to the moderators, is it not time that this is promoted to the masterclass section or will this have to wait until the build is completed.?
Jim
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Hi Jim and thanks for your comments :-)) I'd wait as I reckon the completion date will be about 2023 as its got a ships boat to go in it too.........well if I stay the course. I am finding this extremely challenging to say the least mate O0
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Lovely work Mark. Raising the frames really does turn a load of flat pieces into a 3-D shape that looks like a ship. I am still in awe of the precision and care you show in your work. :o :o
Greg
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Hi Greg and cheers mate :-)) I've been trying to get to this moment for ages and hopefully everyone will start to see an actual ship soon. As for precision - well its ok but I do have some extremely well drawn plans. If anyone wants to see or buy excellent plans have at look on Ancre's website and have a good look at any plans drawn by Gerard Delacroix. I don't think that you can buy better............Gerard is actually watching my build and offers me advice and support what more can I say :-)) No pressure there then {-)
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As for precision - well its ok but I do have some extremely well drawn plans. If anyone wants to see or buy excellent plans have at look on Ancre's website and have a good look at any plans drawn by Gerard Delacroix. I don't think that you can buy better............Gerard is actually watching my build and offers me advice and support what more can I say :-)) No pressure there then {-)
Don't put yourself down, even with the best plans it's your skill with wood that shows up most.
Jim
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Thanks Jim :-))
A few more frames were raised today - things seem to be going quite well at the moment
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/10/IMG_4287.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/10/IMG_4288.jpg)
My Heath Robinson way of checking that the frames are square to the base board - it seems to work ok
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/10/IMG_4289.jpg)
The next few frames moving towards the stem require me to make bespoke chocks. As the frames rise up the apron so the chocks follow. It shouldn't be too hard to do.
Mark :-)
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Hi,
Being a time served Carpenter who can make most things in wood by hand I have to say how much the standard of your work has impressed me! You have what looks like a great workshop and your methods of dealing with the tricky curves and angles are brilliant. Keep up the good work!
Cheers, Pete. :-)) :-)) :-))
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It must give you great pleasure to see it come together, it certainly does me :-)
Notably a quite amazing assembly jig too O0
My JB arrives tomorrow 8)
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Hi,
Being a time served Carpenter who can make most things in wood by hand I have to say how much the standard of your work has impressed me! You have what looks like a great workshop and your methods of dealing with the tricky curves and angles are brilliant. Keep up the good work!
Cheers, Pete. :-)) :-)) :-))
Thanks Pete - some of the angles are very trying to say the least. I'm looking forward to making something with just straight 45 degree joints {-)
It must give you great pleasure to see it come together, it certainly does me :-)
Notably a quite amazing assembly jig too O0
My JB arrives tomorrow 8)
Hi Andy - yep its starting to go 3D now :-)) Your going to love your first JB tool. My order goes in this week :-)
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I'll do some unpacking pictures O0 and when my XRP crypto goes ballistic I'll buy the full set :}
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Hi All
Some more done the Le Rochefort :-))
I made up the rising spacers for in-between frames 1 - 4 as per the plans
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/12/IMG_4292.jpg)
Frames 1 and 2 have a small 2mm tenon to locate them onto the apron. I didn't have any 2mm wooden dowel so I used brass instead
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/12/IMG_4296.jpg)
The final 4 forward frames were then fitted; here are some pictures with and without the holding bands
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/12/IMG_4297.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/12/IMG_4298.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/12/IMG_4300.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/12/IMG_4301.jpg)
I really like this picture of the rising chocks between the rising frames. They rise up to meet the stemson which sits on top and locks them into place but this will be made later.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/12/IMG_4299.jpg)
The next job is to start installing the frames towards the stern.
Cheers Mark :-)
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**''''^%$£@ ing hell, awesome mark, I'll go back to hacking metal and bin my woodworking hammer. Brilliant (o us humbled oiks)
Question, how will you finish the wood, varnish, banana oil, etc
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**''''^%$£@ ing hell, awesome mark, I'll go back to hacking metal and bin my woodworking hammer. Brilliant (o us humbled oiks)
Question, how will you finish the wood, varnish, banana oil, etc
Hi ya mate {-) Its coming on but so many problems ahead I only think about the part I'm working on. Otherwise I've found it gets a bit too much for me.
I think I'm going to finish it in thinned down polyurethane or as the Americans call it "wipe on poly". But if it turns out not so good I'll spray it {-)
Next stages are to fit the rear frames toward the stern but to do this there are a couple of very tricky parts to make. I'll keep you up to date.
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I’m lost for words! I mean it. Just a thought, there’s a trend I’ve noticed in other builds similar, to not add the final planking so as to expose the hidden workmanship involved in the construction, a bit like the centre fold of the Eagle comic????
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/13/2BAF8C04-E245-4022-B6D0-EF31871421DE.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/arhRR)
My old school training ship which I joined from WGS. Three amazing years.
Jerry C.
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Hi Jerry and thanks mate :-)) I'm planning on fully planking one side and then sectioning the other side. Well thats the plan but I'll see how it goes {-)
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Sorry mate, forgot you a southerner. WGS = Wednesfield Grammar School.
Jerry C
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Sorry mate, forgot you a southerner. WGS = Wednesfield Grammar School.
Jerry C
{-) {-)
I managed to get some more done today as my plans changed for the better :-))
I've now raised frames 16 - 23 towards the stern. This was pretty much the same as what I have already done and they seem to have gone in nice and straight. The floor chocks start to rise at frame 20 so there are a lot of bespoke parts to be made and fitted.
Its starting at very long last to look like a hull O0
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/13/IMG_4305.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/13/IMG_4306.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/13/IMG_4307.jpg)
Cheers Mark :-)
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The scupture is taking shape, a symphony in wood superb Mark :-))
Joe.
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If that was my work I'd be reluctant to go to bed just sitting looking in wonder at it.
8)
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Hi Joe and Andy and cheers lads. I only seem to work on what's in front of me to keep it all in manageable pieces. I've just seen this huge piece of timber that sits between the last stern frame and everything else. I am guessing that we would call this "dead wood" but its got to fit in a specific space. I reckon its going to take a few attempts to get it right. Thanks for the encouragement :-))
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Yes Mark.....all of the comments previously made are applicable :-)) ...
[I had never considered the importance, and advantage of a mini-milling M/C for wooden machining]
......& just imagine all of the original fitting of timbers were probably sized with an Adze %)
One question is the history of the nautical shipbuilding term of ....."Raising a Frame"
1. was it just a function of lifting a Frame?, or is there more behind this?
2. have you reached the point of consideration to a preservative fluid to the completed timbers?.......[eg., Tongue Oil or such?]
Derek.......watching on O0
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Hi Derek
Thats a good question and I have no idea where the term raising frames comes from. It's just a term that I and others know so there's a challenge for you - find out the origin :-)) I can't even imagine how many tons some of these frames must weigh on some ships.
As for the finish I pretty sure I'm going to use just one coat of very thinned down spirit based polyurethane. In the states it's called "wipe on poly" which can be bought in the UK for one hell of a price. Its just thinned poly and nothing special. I like the way these spirit based finishes actually soak into the wood and give it tough surface at the same time. The Castello wood is just so beautiful it would be a shame to cover it up.
Cheers Mark
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I’ve stopped using varnish and become a big fan of Danish Oil. Wiped on with a multi fibre cloth. No runs and dries quickly. Ideal for static models. Sorry about the typos in my post last night. When I tried to modify the right hand edge of the writing was hidden so couldn’t correct them and for some reason the letters changed size halfway through. I do proof read.
Jerry C.
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Could I suggest you look at using Mylands Lacacote sanding sealer as a finish. It is a shellac thin almost colourless varnish, brushes on leaving no brush marks and does not shine like varnish but gives the wood a warm glow looking exactly as if it were natural unfinished wood waxed and polished . It penetrates the wood and is a soft finish so if you don't like easily sanded off from the surface.
PS. It comes in nice small 250ml plastic bottles and lasts for yonks
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/16/fullsizeoutput_1e3.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/arFjP)
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Hi Baldrick - thanks for the tip I'll have a look into that :-)) What ever I use I want a matt finish but I do like the way you have finished your boat. It looks great!
Jerry I've got Danish oil here at home as we use it on Lorraine's chopping board. It is really good stuff but way to thick for this build. Some of the detail that I need to make is tiny so it will need a very thin one hit coat.
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Hi Mark.
Thanks but your build is fantastic. I built a Navy Board style model of Confederacy some few years back. The wood for that was American box, a lovely wood quite erotic to just get a sharp chisel and carve away on it. I did not apply any finish to the wood on that, over the years the box has mellowed a bit and now looks like the NMM ship board models. If you want to know what your box would look like with Mylands lanacote sealer applied come back to me , I could PM my address and if you send me some off cuts of your timber I will coat them and post them back for you
cheers balders
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Cheers Baldrick I might just take you up on that kind offer :-)) Mind you I'm a long way off doing it just yet.
I've now finished raising the frames to the stern %%
The last 4 frames were not easy to install at all and I had to unglue my first attempt. I could not get them in vertical and square - All 4 of them sit on a tenon.
So I started installing them the other way around by starting at the transom and working forward and this did the trick. I'm glad to say that they are vertical and square but I did have a make a couple of small spacers for in between the last frame and the fashion pieces. Again this was my error in the way I made the mating faces.
A few pictures - cheers Mark
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4319.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4323.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4324.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4325.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4326.jpg)
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Just a few pictures of what's starting to look like a ship at last
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4327.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4330.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4332.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4333.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4334.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/23/IMG_4335.jpg)
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Well done Mark that must have been a really special moment when you released the frame from the jig and revealed the true glory of the frame to the day light, your attention to detail is creating another master class.
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Thanks DBS88 and yes it was really nice to actually see the shape of the hull. Its back in the jig now as it keeps it safe and will also give loads of support when I fair the inside :-))
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Time to have a go at filling the big hole underneath the transom!!
Firstly I did the usual of cutting templates and gluing them onto the wood making sure that the grain was running in the right direction. Then just a rough shaping out.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/25/IMG_4338.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/25/IMG_4339.jpg)
Then I needed to work out the angle between the transom and the last frame which is just under 90 degrees. I don't know how everyone else works out there angles but I use a sliding bevel. After gluing all of the bits together this allowed me to then sand the top of the piece but I forgot to take a photo??
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/25/IMG_4340.jpg)
My next problem was working out how to sand the rear of the piece but at the same time keeping it square to the front face. In the end I used double sided tape and a metal block which did the trick :-))
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/25/IMG_4341.jpg)
To get the correct shape I used a combination of scribing and taking measurements from the plans. It had to be a good sliding fit into a tricky shaped hole!
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/25/IMG_4342.jpg)
So now that the piece fits I need to roughly shape the outside and then cut out a recess on the inside of the hull. I suspect that the inside will be the harder of the two jobs.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/25/IMG_4343.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/25/IMG_4344.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/25/IMG_4345.jpg)
Cheers Mark :-)
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Hi All
I've now roughed this block into shape and added a small triangular piece to each side to smooth the transition from it to the sternpost. I'm not entirely happy with it but its my fault for not thinking forward enough; it will get its final shape when I fair the hull on the outside.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/27/IMG_4350.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/27/IMG_4351.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/27/IMG_4352.jpg)
The inside was quite tricky to do simply due to the shape of the piece - it was just difficult to hold <*<
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/27/IMG_4353.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/27/IMG_4354.jpg)
The next job is a big one O0 I have to fair the inside of the hull which is going to take a lot of sanding and a long time so please bear with me. Then I'll be able to make the keelson, stemson and sternson which lock all of the frames together.
Cheers Mark
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Hi All
The inside of the hull is now faired and wow do my fingers and hands hurt from all of the sanding. I wouldn't mind but I was using blocks too!
It's been a big job and I've stopped at 400 grit paper as I'm sure the inside is going to get a bit knocked about as I move forward. I'll finish the surface as and when it seems the right thing to do.
It's hard to imagine the effort the original builders put into building their ships. As much work went into the inside as the outside.
The next job is to start making the keelson - a few pictures below
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/30/IMG_4355.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/30/IMG_4358.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/30/IMG_4356.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/30/IMG_4357.jpg)
Cheers Mark :-)
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Hi All
I've now made a start on the 4 parts of the keelson which started in the usual way of using templates to make the rough shapes
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/12/IMG_4377.jpg)
Next I milled out the notches for the frames and the scarf joints
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/12/IMG_4383.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/12/IMG_4384.jpg)
The first part of the keelson that fits over both of the master frames
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/12/IMG_4385.jpg)
The keelson fitted and wow does this thing lock into place - in fact I trouble removing it!!! It really does lock the frames in place
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/12/IMG_4386.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/12/IMG_4387.jpg)
It does need some fettling as its a bit high off of the frames going towards the stem but hopefully I can sort this out with a bit of sanding.
Finally the keelson attached to the stemson
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/12/IMG_4388.jpg)
Cheers Mark :-))
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Still watching. Still delighted by every stage of your build. :o :o :o
Greg
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Still watching. Still delighted by every stage of your build. :o :o :o
Greg
Thanks Greg - its a bit of a challenge to say the least %% I'll get there though. Closing the bow and stern looks very interesting too.
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I've now at last completed the keelson assembly and what a thing it was to make. So many joints on only 4 pieces of wood.
Cutting out the notches on the curved part of the keelson
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/19/IMG_4389.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/19/IMG_4390.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/19/IMG_4391.jpg)
The 4 completed parts
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/19/IMG_4392.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/19/IMG_4393.jpg)
The 4 parts installed into the ship :-))
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/19/IMG_4394.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/19/IMG_4395.jpg)
There is a small gap of less than 1mm between the keelson and the frame spacers where it should be touching. I'm not sure what to do about this yet as this is as good as I can get it. I'll either leave it as is or maybe make some filler out of PVA and sawdust the Jurys still out on this one.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/19/IMG_4397.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/19/IMG_4398.jpg)
The next job is to make a small piece to fill this gap between the apron and the first frame
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/19/IMG_4396.jpg)
Cheers Mark :-)
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Looking really good. Wonderful work <1mm gap, what gap? :-))
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Looking really good. Wonderful work <1mm gap, what gap? :-))
Cheers mate those parts really took some making and then hours of work to make them actually fit well. I'm a bit unsure about the gap; I'm worried that I will regret not doing something about it now. I'll sleep on it and see how I feel - I can't do any more work for a couple of weeks as I've family staying and its great to see them.
-
Does the parts match the drawing ?
Does the frames as built match the drawing i.e are they exactly in the same place as they should be ?
The 1 mm could be that the hull over time has settled in some places and that the part would fit if the parts were in the correct location
or
Do the notches need to be deepened to hide the descrepency that may have crept in - not that any has, it just may be that there is something not sitting where it should be and thats why the exacting parts are not sitting where they should.
-
Also perhaps the drawings have an error somehow. You’re working with very precise tooling eg your mill?
Jerry C.
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I guess those parts aren't actually glued in just yet. Does that gap close up with gentle pressure? If so, I would leave it as it is and let the glue hold the joint tight. If the gap persists, and if it was me, I would try and figure out where the points were that were holding the piece away from its seated position and ease those a bit to see if you can close the gap (as Warspite suggests). If not, have another go at making the ill-fitting pieces. With the knowledge of where the gaps are, and their size, a tight(er) fit should be possible.
But - it's your model, your call. It is a fair bit of work you will be ditching if you start again. And it's always worth looking for unintended consequences - if you make a piece very slightly different from the plans, will that impact on the fit of other pieces later on?
Good luck with the fix, however you do it (or don't, you could just live with it!)
Greg
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Hi all and thanks for the replies :-))
These parts are glued in place as this was the best that I could get them to fit. They do match the drawings but I guess it’s a cumulative error trying to get 32 frames and joints to all line up exactly together.
I spent over a day fettling the fit but I couldn’t adjust one part without it affecting another. If I lower that part of the keelson it affects the scarf joints at each end. If I then lowered those joints the sternson would be too low which also has a knock on effect.
I’ve decided just to leave it as is for now - funnily enough once it’s planked you won’t be able to see it anyway {-)
If I only plank the one side I’ll probably make filler pieces and no one will know……….oh hang on a minute %%
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Don't worry - we're not telling. %) %)
-
Our lips are sealed O0
-
I think he just realized that one side would be hidden and the other exposed and if he is going to make filler pieces to hide for the exposed side he might as well do it before he planks the other side - correct? {-)
-
Don't worry - we're not telling. %) %)
Our lips are sealed O0
I can always rely on you lads :-))
I think he just realized that one side would be hidden and the other exposed and if he is going to make filler pieces to hide for the exposed side he might as well do it before he planks the other side - correct? {-)
Hi warspite - I'm not sure whether to fully plank this model or not yet but you are spot on {-)
These gaps have been doing my head in {-) To be fair to myself the book that I am using to help me build this ship is written by a builder called Adrian Sorolla. He had exactly the same issue and solved it by placing shims in the gaps. I'm not surprised that this has happened as there are actually 64 mating faces between the frames and the keelson. Unfortunately none of the parts have any give so they either fit or they don't <*<
So seeing as my truck decided to breakdown today and gave me a day off of work I decided to make the thin little shims and get the job done. The average thickness was about 0.6mm but I'm glad that I've done this job. I'm now "gapless" and I only had to put one shim in at the stem.
Tadaaaaa {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/22/IMG_4399.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/22/IMG_4401.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/09/22/IMG_4400.jpg)
These pictures are of the shims just glued and chiseled to length and I think they will look much better when sanded. I'll give the whole hull a good clean up soon but not until I've closed the bow and the stern.
Its a long job but thanks for hanging in there - Mark
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Hi Mark don't beat yourself up over a few tiny gaps, I'd be pleased as punch if I had acheaved what you have, if that was the real vessel once in the water those joints would have tightened anyway.
Joe.
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or more precisely, in the full sized vessel the weight of the wood, would have closed the gaps under gravity
-
or more precisely, in the full sized vessel the weight of the wood, would have closed the gaps under gravity
Also the keel and keelson were bolted together which would have helped closing any gaps.
Jim
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Hi everyone
Wow it seems like such a long time since I posted on here - I've had so much on I've had little time for building but I do have an update at last.
So firstly I filled the gap between frame 1 and the apron using the tried and tested masking tape technique O0
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4404.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4405.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4406.jpg)
Then it was onto the hawse timbers - or so I thought! I won't bore you with the full story but I have had so much trouble interpreting the plans. The plans are great and it took me over two weeks to actually see what needed to be done. In the process I wasted loads of wood and time but I think I've finally got it sorted.
I had to cut the first timber to exactly 16.9 degrees and after trying to sand it and failing I knew that it had to be machined. I bought a cheap angle meter and made a simple jig for the mill and so far it seems ok.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4426.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4427.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4428.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4429.jpg)
I've now cut and installed the first 3 hawse timbers on the starboard side so I've another 2 to fit. Its all temporarily held together with 1mm brass rod but wow is this a tricky job.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4430.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4431.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4432.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4433.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4434.jpg)
I'm glad I'm moving forward again and I'll update this as soon as I can. Here's a picture of the plans for the hawse timbers if you fancy having a go at understanding them %%
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/06/IMG_4415.jpg)
Cheers Mark :-)) :-))
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Absolutely beautiful work there Mark , would be a shame to plank over her ,cheers.
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Thanks Brian :-)) I'm probably only going to plank one side but I'll decide nearer the time
I've now fitted the last two hawse timbers on the starboard side and they are all glued together now.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/07/IMG_4435.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/07/IMG_4436.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/07/IMG_4437.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/07/IMG_4438.jpg)
It still needs loads of sanding and shaping but first I need to replicate this work on the port side
Cheers Mark
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Hi All
Well another change of plan {-) After building up the starboard side hawse timbers I couldn't see the transition between each part.
Because of this I thought that I had built them up incorrectly so I decided to roughly fair these parts first before making the port side timbers.
This turned out to be a tricky job as the parts are quite flimsy and I needed to remove a lot of material. I removed 90% of the wood off of the ship and then took the last bits off once glued in place.
Its not fully faired yet but I'm glad to say that I'm on the right track :-)) Mind you look at the state of the square holes {-) They are all different sizes so I do need to try harder in the future. Mind you I now have to replicate these odd sizes on the port side <*<
A few pictures for you below.
Cheers Mark :-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/14/IMG_4446.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/14/IMG_4447.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/14/IMG_4449.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/14/IMG_4448.jpg)
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:o
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Hi All
Another update on my build - I've now at last finished the hawse timbers on the other side. I must be honest these timbers have proven to be the hardest part of the build so far.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/29/IMG_4459.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/29/IMG_4460.jpg)
I have also made the hawse holes and the triangular filler pieces between hawse timber 1 and frame 1.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/29/IMG_4461.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/29/IMG_4462.jpg)
I am so glad that this part of the build is just about finished. The drawings are very complicated but they are also very precise and complete. It was my translation of them that caused me problems but I seem to have got there at last. I just need to finish the hole for the bowsprit and hopefully I'll get that done tomorrow and if I do I'll get the pictures up on here. The top timbers have also not been cut to height as this will be completed when the outside of the hull is faired.
One last picture
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/29/IMG_4463.jpg)
Cheers Mark :-)
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Mark a truly beautiful piece of carpentry, it’s a joy to watch your build flourish
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Getting better and better Mark. It would be nice to think the hawse timbers are the hardest bit of the whole thing, and it gets easier from now on. But of course your skill level is going up and up, so if there are tricky bits ahead I am sure you will deliver an equally lovely result. :-)) :-))
Greg
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Chuf Mark
This is cabinet making, I am definitely throwing away my hammer, chisel and A1 hobbies fretwork machine and going back to bashing metal O0
Brilliant work, can't wait to see it next year (Mayhem weekend, model boat show or others...).
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Up there with the best matey!
Jerry C.
-
Lads thanks very much for the really nice comments :-)) I think its safe to say that my carpentry has become much better than it was - as we say practice makes almost perfect {-)
This morning I cut the hole out for the bowsprit which like most things required a solution. The hole diameter to be cut is 14.70mm and it needs to be perfectly inline.
So I made a hole cutter out of a piece of 13mm brass and carefully ran this through using a power drill. I used the bowsprit saddle as a guide.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/IMG_4466.jpg)
I then simply kept on gluing sand paper to the rod until I got to roughly the correct diameter
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/IMG_4467.jpg)
So I now have a nice clean and correct hole for the bowsprit
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/IMG_4468.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/30/IMG_4469.jpg)
So now that the bow is all closed in I can start on the counter timbers at the stern. I'll make a start on this next weekend :-))
Thanks again for all of the encouragement on this build - Mark
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That hole must have been nerve racking, one slip could have spoiled some of the surrounding woodwork but you did it with your usual finesse :-))
Joe.
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Mark
Inspirational skills on display with this build..! Fascinating pictures of beautiful and meticulous workmanship. :-))
In awe.
David.
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That hole must have been nerve racking, one slip could have spoiled some of the surrounding woodwork but you did it with your usual finesse :-))
Joe.
Thanks Joe :-)) It was one of those jobs where I just had to give it a go and luck was on my side. Mind you I find most of it nerve racking {-)
Mark
Inspirational skills on display with this build..! Fascinating pictures of beautiful and meticulous workmanship. :-))
In awe.
David.
Thanks David I'm getting very slowly but surely mate!
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Hi All
I've made a start on the counter timbers and I'm back to following Adrian Sorolla's excellent book. He suggests making a jig which involves making another although less intricate wing transom and an angle plate to set the timbers. Once the assembly is complete it is then transferred to the ship.
So I set out to make this jig which is actually a bit more tricky than he lets on. Not only do you have to obviously set the exact angle there is a curvature in the stern too. I think the pictures explain this far better than my words but the jig took many hours to make compared to the hour it took to make the counter timbers.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/05/IMG_4476.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/05/IMG_4477.jpg)
So having made the jig I next made the four counter timbers which were by now quite easy for me to make. The results are below and I just hope that they are right. Next up is to make the quarterdeck beam to begin to tie the counter timbers together.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/05/IMG_4475.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/05/IMG_4478.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/05/IMG_4479.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/05/IMG_4480.jpg)
Cheers Mark
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You have the patience of a saint!
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Not wrong there Steve O0 :-)) .
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Hiya Mark, I've just been doing a catch up with your build (from reply #214) and I'm astounded at what you have achieved!
Unfortunately, for me, I've been unable to do any form of modelling but I haven't given up - I'm just in limbo for now.
Anyway, I'm loving what you're doing and will be looking in from here on in...
Cheers mate,
Ray.
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You have the patience of a saint!
Not wrong there Steve O0 :-)) .
Thanks lads but honestly I haven't I just really enjoy the challenge :-))
Hiya Mark, I've just been doing a catch up with your build (from reply #214) and I'm astounded at what you have achieved!
Unfortunately, for me, I've been unable to do any form of modelling but I haven't given up - I'm just in limbo for now.
Anyway, I'm loving what you're doing and will be looking in from here on in...
Cheers mate,
Ray.
Thanks Ray and great to hear from you and you'll be back modelling soon enough O0
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Hi All
I've now made the quarter deck beam. There is no separate drawing for this part so the templates are made from 3 different views of the same piece number 13.
I think its gone ok but time will tell - A few photo's below
Cheers Mark
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/12/IMG_4486.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/12/IMG_4487.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/12/IMG_4503.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/12/IMG_4504.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/12/IMG_4505.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/12/IMG_4506.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/12/IMG_4507.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/12/IMG_4508.jpg)
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Impeccable workmanship as usual. Very impressed :-))
-
Impeccable workmanship as usual. Very impressed :-))
Thanks dougal99 :-))
I've had a bit more time on the ship and I've now made the counter timber extensions that run up to the taffrail. They were quite easy to make and I like the little tenons at the top. I don't expect these parts to last until the end of the build as they are bound to be snapped off by a loose sleeve %%
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/18/IMG_4509.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/18/IMG_4510.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/18/IMG_4511.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/18/IMG_4512.jpg)
Cheers Mark
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That's real precision milling - roll your sleeves up Mark, keep them well clear of those timbers!
... coming along nicely mate :-))
Ray.
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That's real precision milling - roll your sleeves up Mark, keep them well clear of those timbers!
... coming along nicely mate :-))
Ray.
Thanks Ray and I will!!!
I've now made the taffrail filler pieces and the window frame surround timbers which has put enough strength into the assembly to remove it from the jig.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/22/IMG_4513.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/22/IMG_4516.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/22/IMG_4515.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/22/IMG_4514.jpg)
Then after making sure that I had it all lined up correctly I made a support for the assembly and fixed it onto the wing transom. Its pinned with 0.5mm brass to stop it moving whilst the glue dried.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/22/IMG_4518.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/22/IMG_4517.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/22/IMG_4519.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/22/IMG_4520.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/22/IMG_4521.jpg)
Unfortunately the screw that I used to fix it to the support decided to shear its head >>:-( So at some point I'll have to cut the support and try and remove it from the back of the taffrail filler - its not the end of the world %%
Next tricky job is to make the dogs legs - Have a great Xmas everyone - Mark :-)
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Hi All
To make the dogs legs I first made a practice piece that allowed me to iron out any problems. From this I worked out how to cut the birds mouth joints at the correct angles and also how to lift the drawings onto the wood. It was this interpretation that took the longest to actually get correct and get the right shape on the stern.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/28/IMG_4526.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/28/IMG_4527.jpg)
I then cut and sanded the pieces to shape
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/28/IMG_4529.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/28/IMG_4530.jpg)
Next I pinned and glued them onto the wing transom and the results seem to be pretty good - Its symmetrical and straight which is always a good sign.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/28/IMG_4531.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/28/IMG_4532.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/28/IMG_4533.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/28/IMG_4534.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/28/IMG_4535.jpg)
I now need to make the small but very awkward frames that complete the hull from the last stern frame all the way back to the dogs legs. I've not yet faired the dogs legs as I'll wait until these frames are in so that I get a better line of sight.
Cheers Mark :-))
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I don't expect these parts to last until the end of the build as they are bound to be snapped off by a loose sleeve %%
Lovely miniature woodwork, as always. Would it be worth constructing a temporary cage or arch, perhaps based on your support bracket, to protect the projecting timbers until you are ready to add some more structure there?
Greg
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Hi Greg and many thanks for your comment mate :-)) I was thinking exactly what you we're thinking too! I have already put the big "T" just behind the counter timbers for protection but I do think something else maybe required too.
-
Hi All
I've moved on a bit albeit very slowly. Partly because I really have been struggling to make the next three parts but also because I'm getting over Coivd >:-o
Anyway the problem I've been having has been correctly placing the pieces and keeping the dimensions of the hull correct. I think I must have made these parts about 4/5 times now and had to cut them off completely twice. The good news is I'm there now :-))
The centre line of the hull which I have used to ensure accuracy of the hull dimensions
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/09/IMG_4541.jpg)
The three parts that I have found so difficult to get right. 1 - A half frame that is mounted on the front of the fashion piece. 2 - A wedged chock which is supposed to be made from one piece of wood but I had to make it from two in the end. 3 - The fashion piece extension
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/09/IMG_4542-1.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/09/IMG_4543.jpg)
It all looks ok now and I just need to sand the parts on the starboard side to get these pieces finished. They were a proper little trial but you wouldn't have thought so looking at the plans.
Cheers Mark
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Lovely work as usual. Full of
envy admiration for you patience and skill (in no particular order). :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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Cheers dougal99 :-)) :-))
The next job is to run 5 frames up each dog leg :o It's going to take some thinking about thats for sure. I'll take my time and just try and get them as true as possible. Once they are done the initial framing will be complete.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/09/IMG_4542-2.jpg)
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A few pictures of the 5 frames that I have now installed up the starboard dog leg. These are just rough having just been glued in and they require fairing.
I milled a small recess in the last filler piece to pick up and support the quarter deck beam. I just now need to repeat this on the port side
Mark :-))
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/11/IMG_4544.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/11/IMG_4545.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/11/IMG_4547.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/11/IMG_4546.jpg)
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Hi All
Some more done - This time the port side has been completed and I've faired these frames on the inside too.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/13/IMG_4549.jpg)
They are not difficult to make or install they are just time consuming due to the compound angles being different for each one. I was very pleased the way the stern has turned out symmetrical.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/13/IMG_4550.jpg)
And finally.....................Out of the jig to reveal the shape of the hull. I cannot fair the outside of the hull yet as it still needs strengthening before this can be done.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/13/IMG_4551.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/13/IMG_4552.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/13/IMG_4554.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/13/IMG_4553.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/13/IMG_4555.jpg)
Wow what a journey %% 13 - 14 months just to make a ships frame! Seeing it like this for the first time has really made me think that it was worth the effort. Its not perfect by any means but it'll do for me for a first attempt.
The next job is to make and install the helm port which is the big chunk of wood the rudder post goes through on the way up to the helmsman.
Cheers Mark :-))
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Amazing work Mark, very high quality. I think we should be changing your name to Leo. ;) ;)
Jim
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Amazing work Mark, very high quality. I think we should be changing your name to Leo. ;) ;)
Jim
Thanks Jim :-)) When I started out on this I thought that it would be a ship building challenge. I was so wrong! It has mainly turned into a technical drawing understanding challenge and a master class in carpentry! I've actually made two of these ships but the other is in the bin {-)
-
Ok onto the helm port - I really enjoyed making this part of the ship which comprises of 3 parts. Firstly I discovered that one of my counter timbers was not quite vertical so to correct this I milled a taper into the port leg of the helm port
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/14/IMG_4556.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/14/IMG_4557.jpg)
I next cut out the other parts and glued and pinned them together. I needed them to be very strong to withstand the forming of them.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/14/IMG_4558.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/14/IMG_4559.jpg)
Then I had to free hand mill the hole out of the centre
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/14/IMG_4560.jpg)
The helm port was then glued onto the hull and the hole was finished with a file.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/14/IMG_4562.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/14/IMG_4563.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/14/IMG_4564.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/14/IMG_4565.jpg)
So now I've got a way of getting the rudder onto the ship %% The next job is going to be very different for me now as the framing is pretty much done. I now need to ensure that the inside of the hull is faired as exactly as possible as this maybe my last opportunity to get that part right.
I then hopefully will be able to mark out and make the main deck clamp (The huge timber that all of the deck beams sit on) which will give the hull some more strength too. I can also strip down the building jig a bit so that I can get better access to the hull.
Cheers Mark :-))
-
Simply amazing how your skill level keeps growing :-)
-
Simply amazing how your skill level keeps growing :-)
Hi Andy - cheers mate I'm not finding it as intimidating as I did when I first started. One of the things that has changed a lot is my tools. Every tool I seem to own now is carpentry related. I also seem to be obsessed with how sharp the tools are - I hone my chisels probably once a fortnight now. I need to get a life {-)
BTW if you want the best honing tool ever try this one
http://richardkell.co.uk/honingECom.htm
-
For my new hobby I just have a large variety of hammers {-)
-
I have found that a large variety of hammers suits most hobbies. Possibly not great for birdwatching, though.
-
In my yoof I studied Naval Architecture and General Ship Construction, helped make a brand new 27’ Whaler out of a wreck and built a model clinker built Launch. That said I haven’t recognised 90% of the parts of this model. You’re a star Mark, honest!
Jerry C.
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Jerry - Hello mate :-) We are looking forward to you getting down our way this year :-))
Now here's a confession - I didn't know what 95% of these parts were either until I started this build {-) Every day is a school day for me at the moment but I am enjoying it!!
-
Ok I've got a bit more done :-)
Firstly I sent a few more hours fairing the inside of the hull as it going to be planked out quite soon. Next I took the measurements for the deck clamp and transferred them on the model. I did this by modifying my height gauge which actually worked very well
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/16/IMG_4568.jpg)
Then as I'm sure that most of us have done at some point was to use a baton to join up the dots to get a solid line
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/16/IMG_4570.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/16/IMG_4569.jpg)
Then the same on the other side to get a nice uniform line around the inside of the hull
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/16/IMG_4572.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/16/IMG_4571.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/16/IMG_4573.jpg)
So now the fun begins %% At this scale the deck clamp (the timber that all of the deck beams sit on) is 3.4mm x 9mm and I need to bend it around the bow. The bow is far too fragile at this stage to take any heavy clamping so I need to preform it. It is also a very harsh bend due to the Dutch style hawse timbers but I'll give it a go.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/16/IMG_4574.jpg)
The other issue I need to solve is that the clamp is made up of 4 individual pieces which are joined using hooked scarph joints - another first for me but I do like a challenge.
Cheers Mark
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When you’re preforming the deck clamps, soak them in ammonia window cleaner in a length of hose with the end pugged. Leave 24 hours then form them and let them dry. That’s how I did the coaming on “Wear”.
Jerry C.
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When you’re preforming the deck clamps, soak them in ammonia window cleaner in a length of hose with the end pugged. Leave 24 hours then form them and let them dry. That’s how I did the coaming on “Wear”.
Jerry C.
Thanks Jerry I've never used ammonia - when you say leave them for 24hours is that with them clamped in place when wet - or before I try the bend?
-
Soak for 24hours then clamp in position. Do both at the same time bit by bit from same end of hull so equal stress on each side of hull. You’ll find them very flexible. Leave clamped for 24 hours. When dry you can glue them in final position. It’s easier than steaming. The best wood to use is ash.
Jerry C.
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Thanks Jerry I'll give it a go - mind you its boxwood all the way for me {-) I'll let you know how I get on
-
Piece of plastic drainpipe (underground type) blocked one end and a cap for tother, filled with ammonia/water mix, ideal soaking tank for sheet Balsa. They come out with a rubber like flexibility, form and clamp and allow to dry. Don't forget to add the eye of toad and tongue of newt. Seriously though, used this for years on toy aeroplane construction and results are eyeopening, especially with ammonia BUT do it outdoors. Mixture of choice was the outlet fluid from Diazo printers, ex D/O.
Regards Ian.
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When you’re preforming the deck clamps, soak them in ammonia window cleaner in a length of hose with the end pugged. Leave 24 hours then form them and let them dry. That’s how I did the coaming on “Wear”.
Jerry C.
What's the current brand of choice? The one I used to use is now "ammonia free"
-
If it says it’s got ammonia in use that.
Jerry C.
-
I bought ammonia solution from our local Boots the chemist, it's lasted for years.
-
Thanks for the tips regarding the ammonia :-)) I bought some 33% stuff off Ebay and then diluted it down with water. I think I have enough ammonia to last a lifetime of wood bending now %%
I made up the formers to the correct bend
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/23/IMG_4578.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/23/IMG_4579.jpg)
The soaked wood bent around without any issues at all - This is 9mm x 3.4mm strips
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/23/IMG_4580.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/23/IMG_4581.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/23/IMG_4582.jpg)
The only issue at the moment is that the wood has changed colour quite a bit. It may return to its natural colour when dry so I'll see what its like next weekend. If its still looking green I'll try and bend some using heat but hopefully it will be okay.
Mark
-
Are these test pieces, as they are vertical, any bends due to the vertical nature of the piece would need shaping for a rake in the top to the bottom - don't know if you understand what I am on about,
formed as shown but as they go round the bend to follow the bend vertically the ends would lift to form the shape or are these pieces naturally flat and those below will 'twist to conform to the correct shape ?
oh and is the green skin deep of through the whole of the wood
-
Yes these are test pieces as the formers are not yet there final shape. You are spot on about the rake or camber being required as otherwise they will not sit flat against the hawed timbers. The plan is to use these pieces to work out the rake and then apply it to the formers.
Unfortunately this morning the wood was still a green colour so I would say that it’s permanently stained. So the next set will be given the water and heat treatment and I’ll see how I get on with that.
-
Hi All
Some more done :-)
Firstly the wood stayed a green colour so I had to try and bend the wood just using water and heat. I also changed the former to incorporate the the frames camber and I also increased the curve due to spring back. I'm glad to say that its turned out ok but I still need to bend the starboard side.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/30/IMG_4593.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/30/IMG_4594.jpg)
I have also made the third breast hook which it different to the other four hooks as the profile on this one is not flat. Once I had worked out the machining sequence it was quite easy to make. The deck clamps have a long notch cut into them which the breast hook sits in. Here's a few pictures which explain it better than my words.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/30/IMG_4586.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/30/IMG_4587.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/30/IMG_4588.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/30/IMG_4590.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/30/IMG_4591.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/30/IMG_4589.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/30/IMG_4592.jpg)
Cheers Mark :-))
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Your attention to detail, coupled with practical ability, appears to be paying off Mark... great work mate :-))
Ray.
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This just gets better and better Mark...chapeau.....(French for hats off) :-))
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Thanks Ray and Phil :-)) I’m really looking forward to getting into some of the more detailed work but still loads of structural work left first.
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Hi All
Well what a challenge these 3 parts have been <*< I made and discarded 4 sets of deck clamps before settling on the ones that I used. The combination of difficult bends which had to be recessed to accommodate the deck clamp all aligned correctly inside the hull..............wow!!!
Anyway I'm there now and quite happy with the result even though I did get a little damage doing it. The port deck clamp went in ok but the starboard side cracked and I didn't notice until the next day when the clamps were removed.
It was one of those times when I thought well its in exactly the correct position even if its not that pretty! So I opened up the crack and placed a sliver of wood in as a repair.
The pair of deck clamps that I eventually used
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/13/IMG_4596.jpg)
The recess for the breast hook
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/13/IMG_4598.jpg)
My first ever hooked scarf joint
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/13/IMG_4597.jpg)
Pictures of all 3 parts finally glued in :-))
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/13/IMG_4602.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/13/IMG_4600.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/13/IMG_4601.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/13/IMG_4603.jpg)
I've now got to make the 6 remaining parts of the deck clamp which are all joined with hooked scarf joints. Its a challenge but its a good one :-))
Mark :-)
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Hi Mark, I don't think you couldn't have picked a more complicated vessel to construct, absolutely beautiful work mate, cheers :-)) .
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Thanks Brian :-)) Have a look on Ancres website which is French. Would you believe that Le Rochefort is pretty much a basic beginners scratch build compared to what monograph’s you can get from them. It’s well worth a visit.
-
Geez, that's surprising , but I bet the beginners version wouldn't look anything like yours. :-))
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Thanks Brian :-)) Have a look on Ancres website which is French. Would you believe that Le Rochefort is pretty much a basic beginners scratch build compared to what monograph’s you can get from them. It’s well worth a visit.
A basic beginners build ? that makes me feel quite inadequate, I'm going for a sit down in a dark room for a sulk :(( :(( {-)
Joe.
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%% %% Have a look at the plans for a 3 deck ship of the line. It really shows what can be done - just the under deck construction must take months. There are some amazing ships to build if you have the time O0
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Hi All
At last the deck clamp is finished %%
I've become quite adept now at making hooked scarf joints
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/27/IMG_4604.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/27/IMG_4605.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/27/IMG_4606.jpg)
The parts all fitted inside the hull. It would be so much easier just to make this as one piece instead of the four that it is - but what a lovely detail that I think needs to be done.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/27/IMG_4610.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/27/IMG_4611.jpg)
A couple of close ups - the bolts are 0.5mm carbon rod that goes all the way through to the frames
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/27/IMG_4613.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/27/IMG_4612.jpg)
I'm now waiting for some wood to arrive so that I can start the inside planking. The planking inside this ship is fully caulked and completely seals the hold due to its cargo of gunpowder. I've not done this before so plenty of challenges ahead.
In the mean time here's a set of 14 planking clamps that I've made in readiness for the job
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/27/IMG_4614.jpg)
Cheers Mark
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Mark just fantastic - and what you have said there is just sinking in, planked inside and out! so none of all your beautiful work so far will be visible? I nearly cried at the thought
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No, I think he mentioned earlier that one side only so as not to hide the detail :-))
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Hi both - yes warspite is right I’m going to leave some of it exposed
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Beautiful workmanship Mark. And whether its exposed or not, you'll know it's been done right..!
Best regards
David.
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Beautiful workmanship Mark. And whether its exposed or not, you'll know it's been done right..!
Best regards
David.
Thanks David :-))
So another update - It's taken me quite a while to get on with the inside planking as I have had a bit of trouble interpreting the drawings again. There is no flat plan of the planking and I could not find a way of making out the planks as I do on the outside. So I applied some common sense such as not going up the stem too quickly and only tapering the planks to half their width.
I began as usual by marking out the planks taper and then popping it in my planking vice to be planed to size.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4618.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4619.jpg)
I then clamp the two planks together to ensure that they are a mirror image and then use heat to edge bend them into shape.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4620.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4621.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4622.jpg)
Next clamp them in place on the hull and repeat this process for the other planks
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4624.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4625.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4626.jpg)
I've now made two complete strakes and this is where I am now. The missing plank by the keelson is the limber channel for drainage by the ships pumps. This plank is slightly different and is removable and I will make this at a later date.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4630.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4631.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4632.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4633.jpg)
I'll put another post up in a few weekends once I've made the seven strakes that I'm going to install at this point in the build
Cheers Mark
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Hi Mark, speaking generally now, decide how many planks required from keel to deck. The garboard planks are usually straight, of uniform width and faired in to the stem and transom. Mark all vertical frame stations with the positions of top of each plank, (they will be progressively narrower towards stem and transom and you divide up the vertical length of each frame by the number of planks). Having internal as well as external frames is a complication but you should still be able to mark out the lower edge of each plank from inside hull. The top of each plank is marked externally as you know the width of each plank at each frame station. The stock for each plank gets progressively wider as you move towards deck level to such an extent that you may need to make the sheer strake in two parts with a scarf joint. This method avoids having to make filler pieces near bow and stern o you have equal number of planks on each frame.
Make two identical planks and fit one each side. Always work in pairs to avoid twisting strain. On clinker hull I managed two pairs of planks per day but carvel is a little quicker.
Let me know if this makes sense???
Jerry C.
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Hi ya Jerry
Yes that all makes sense to me :-))
I know the width of the internal planks at their widest point and I know exactly how many I need to complete the job. I also know that I need to have about 2 or 3 drop planks internally to keep the planks at 1/2 width at the stem and I also know that I will have to widen the planks at the stern.
I've tried so many times to calculate each plank as I have done in the past and I just can't quite work it out. So I think I just need to adjust as I make each strake. I must be honest planking internally is much much harder than externally.
I actually think I need to be more like a shipwright doing this and just get the job done and think about it a lot less.
BTW Angelica looks great with her new painted bottom :-))
Cheers Mark
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When I built Wear I remember using a bendy strip of Formica for marking out for the planking but can’t remember how. It might be worth having a look on my build in steam??? It’s pretty near the start.
Jerry C.
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Disregard previous Mark, it was used as a guide for mini plane chamfering previous plank top edge. Only used for clinker build.
I used to believe clinker was the pinnacle of the boat builders art having learned when assisting rebuilding a 27’ Montague Whaler that had been in the battle of Jutland. I’ve had a rethink of that opinion as your build is a quantum leap ahead. Respect matey.
(https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/blob:https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/edcd066d-fab6-4043-bac2-bf86fb29d3b5)
Jerry C.
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Hi All
It's been a while since I posted and thats because I have found planking inside the hull a whole new different ball game. I thought that I had started off really well until it came to sanding it down. As I hadn't bent the planks correctly at the stem I soon started to sand completely through them and the results are shown below.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/IMG_4643.jpg)
Also the joints were not good enough and planning the planking run proved to be very difficult................so I ripped the whole lot out and started again.
Six weeks later I'm now happy with the results :-))
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/IMG_4651.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/IMG_4652.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/IMG_4653.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/IMG_4654.jpg)
So the next job is to put all of the nails into the planks, deck clamp, keelson and breast hook. The plans state that the nail heads in the planks should be 1/5 the size of the thickness of the planks. So the planks are 1.6mm thick so the nails need to be 0.3mm in diameter. I've made up a test peice that I think looks ok.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/IMG_4636-1.jpg)
So loads of nails to install and thanks for hanging in there :-)
Mark
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Glad to see you had the courage to rip out and lay afresh Mark - after all that you have achieved to date, just going ahead with the damaged planks would have been a bitter pill to swallow.
... and your test piece looks good to me mate :-))
Ray.
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Hi Ray and great to hear from you :-))
Now here's the thing - Once completed these planks will never been seen again apart from a small view from the side. I could have just left it and it would have not affected the finished ship...........but I just couldn't!
For me its just about doing the best that I can and it'll be finished when it is.
Hope your well mate :-)
-
Yeah, we're all good here Mark thanks.
Hoping to get started on another model soon :-))
Ray.
-
If at first you don't succeed..... Excellent recovery Mark. And the fact that nobody will see most of it when finished matters not a jot - it's your satisfaction that matters. :-)) :-)) :-))
Greg
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If at first you don't succeed..... Excellent recovery Mark. And the fact that nobody will see most of it when finished matters not a jot - it's your satisfaction that matters. :-)) :-)) :-))
Greg
Hi Greg - spot on mate :-)) Thanks for the comments and I think that we all get points in our builds where we just know that we need to start again. Its not a defeat but simply a learning curve.
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Hi All
The nailing is now complete that I intended to do and its come out ok :-)) I think there are about 1000 nails in total.
Pictures before sanding with the nails still sticking out.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/29/IMG_4656.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/29/IMG_4657.jpg)
Pictures after sanding.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/29/IMG_4658.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/29/IMG_4661.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/29/IMG_4659.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/29/IMG_4660.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/29/IMG_4662.jpg)
So now the hull is rigid and strong enough to fair the outside of the hull. I've been looking forward to this part for quite a while!!
I'll keep you posted
Cheers Mark
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Mark, simply stunning, your work and this build is astounding, well done
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Mark, simply stunning, your work and this build is astounding, well done
O0
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Once again you have made an outstanding job on those planks and nails and full credit for your determination to 'get it right'.
You can be justifiably proud of your progress to date...
Well done mate.
Aye,
Ray.
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Hi lads - thanks for the really nice comments I just don't know what to say :-))
So she's faired :-)) When I started this foolish mission I always thought in my own mind that if I could get this far then I could complete her. I faired it completely by hand with no power tools which is why it took me so long.
Honestly I'm so chuffed to see her correct lines for the first time after all of this time and its been well worth it.
The next job is to mark out and cut her top timbers which will make her look even better.
Some pictures below and thanks for all of the support - Mark
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/IMG_4663.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/IMG_4664.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/IMG_4665.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/IMG_4666.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/IMG_4668.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/IMG_4667.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/IMG_4671.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/IMG_4669.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/IMG_4670.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/IMG_4673.jpg)
:-)
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Superb work :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
-
Still following. Still hugely impressed.
:-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
Greg
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Thanks guys for the nice comments :-))
Ok the top timbers are now cut to length and she's looking a bit smarter
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/12/IMG_4685.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/12/IMG_4686.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/12/IMG_4684.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/12/IMG_4687.jpg)
Now the bad news - I've made the transom incorrectly due to my inexperience. The transom filling pieces do not line up with the wing transom rabbet. This is a major problem at this point in the build.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/12/IMG_4688.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/12/IMG_4689.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/12/IMG_4690.jpg)
It's so obvious to me now but when I made these pieces I knew a lot less about a ships anatomy and how all of the parts work together to make the whole. So I now have a couple of choices.
1. I can laminate more wood onto the transom filling pieces to get the correct shape but I know that this will look bad.
2. I can bodge it by cutting the rabbet deeper to suit and change the shape of the stern of the ship a bit.
I need to give this some thought before I move on but either way its not the end of the world {-)
Cheers Mark
-
Mark what you have achieved so far is nothing short of a masterpiece in ship modelling so don't beat yourself up over a past mistake, whatever you do to get over it I'm darn sure I won't notice it, keep going mate I really want to see this finished.
Joe.
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Mark what you have achieved so far is nothing short of a masterpiece in ship modelling so don't beat yourself up over a past mistake, whatever you do to get over it I'm darn sure I won't notice it, keep going mate I really want to see this finished.
Joe.
Hi Joe - really great to here from you mate :-)) Its certainly not insurmountable and its just another problem when building a ship this way. Now that I can see the problem its just so obvious what I did wrong but we all have to learn a new trade the hard way %%
Here's another picture what does exaggerate the problem somewhat but its gives you a better idea of what I need to fix. The plank that runs under the whale into the rabbet has to be carved as it's far too tight to bend wood. This will give me quite a bit of leeway too!
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/12/IMG_4675.jpg)
Mark :-)
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Hiya Mark, I think Joe's comments are spot on and we see the problem in your latest update. Also, you've come up with a possible solution already.
I'm sure you'll eventually get it sorted mate :-) .
Aye,
Ray.
-
As has been said, we are all confident you will fix your splendid model, and if you hadn't mentioned it then nobody would have spotted anything amiss. And I'm sure that the full size had plenty of modifications and repairs as it went through its life, so your "repair" will simply reflect real life!
Are you now working on the hull outside the building jig, or do you just remove it for taking pictures?
Greg
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Hey Mark
Just had a catch up on the thread, stunning work..!
David.
-
Hi Ray, Greg and David
Thanks for the nice comments :-))
The reason that I need to sort out this error is because if I don’t the planking will not run around the stern very well at all. The bends are very tight to say the least and in fact the first bend underneath the whale has to be carved from a solid piece. I’m sure I’ll sort it out but I reckon I’ve caused myself about 3 extra weeks of repair work but hey it’s not a race {-)
Once I’ve sorted this out I’ll fit the whale plank and also the one underneath it and then I’ll start working on the inside. There’s quite a lot of detail in there and I’m looking forward to starting something other than the frame.
It’s out of the jig now as the frame is finished and wow is it strong. I’m actually surprised just what a strong structure it is.
I’ll keep you updated as I start the laminating and hopefully that will give me a fix out of this
Cheers Mark
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Hi All
The great news is I've been back to the drawings and all is not as bad as I first thought. Its only really the transom top filling piece thats wrong as I've squared the top of it off instead of tapering it out.
The second big win is that I never cut the required rabbet corner radius into the wing transom and cutting this will take away about 60% of the overall issue.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/19/IMG_4697.jpg)
So I'm laminating the top transom timber with 0.5mm strips and I think about 3 strips will sort it out.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/19/IMG_4696.jpg)
As always I'll let you know how it goes but I think I've been a bit lucky this time :-)
Mark
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Great to see your latest update Mark and hope this potential solution works out well for you mate.
Aye,
Ray.
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Thanks Ray :-)) To be honest this is easy compared to changing a integrated washing machine to another make which I had to do yesterday. Yep 8 hours to fit a washing machine as I had to re-hang the door, rework the plumbing and cut and alter the kick panels. Never again {-)
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Its sorted :-)) :-)) :-))
After laminating the top transom timber I sanded it to shape and also carved the radius's onto the wing transom. It all now lines up nicely the way it should of in the first place and actually doesn't look to bad either.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/25/IMG_4698.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/25/IMG_4700.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/25/IMG_4699.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/25/IMG_4701.jpg)
I've also been stocking up on some Castello wood - 6 planks at 13mm thick so this should keep me going for a while O0
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/25/IMG_4702.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/25/IMG_4703.jpg)
So upwards and onwards and the next job is the whale. I can't do any work now though for about 4 weekends as we are off to Corfu for 2 weeks and I have some other stuff to do as well.
When I'm back and building I'll get another update up]
Cheers Mark
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I knew you'd crack it mate and it looks fine to me (though I'm no expert).
Well, enjoy your holiday Mark and I hope you will get the chance to relax and recharge your batteries, as they say.
Aye,
Ray.
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Have a great holiday Mark, and we are all looking forward to resumption of the build. (I bet that castello needed a second mortgage, judging by the price of other wood at the moment! Is that why there are only 5 planks supplied when you thought there were 6? %% )
Greg
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It just gets better and better Mark, your patience is a real testament model building (I should learn !! )
And as an aside.... brilliant photography.....I hope you have even more phhotos to record a most beautiful build.
P
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Thanks lads - and yes there are only 5 planks {-) I told you that I needed a holiday %%
The price of wood in the UK believe it or not is relatively cheap compared to the US. This wood cost £200 and there’s enough to build an entire ship. I’m just stocking up a bit what with things being a bit unstable in the world at present.
Thanks for the support and I’ll be back before you know it :-))
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Just a quick aside as I had a spare hour today :-)) I needed to make the dreaded tree nails for the planking and I have successfully used a simple technique that was shown to me by a fellow builder.
I need 0.9mm nails so I bought some 16g piercing needles and cut a slight bevel on the end. I then drilled loads of holes into a scrap piece of wood but not all of the way through.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/07/03/IMG_4706.jpg)
I then sanded the back of the piece down on a face sander to release the nails.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/07/03/IMG_4707.jpg)
It took no time at all and I've made about 250 high quality Castello nails.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/07/03/IMG_4708.jpg)
So if you ever need to make nails give this easy method a try - Cheers Mark
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Good mass production method there Mark, I think the only nails I'll need in my models are the 1 inch steel variety fitted with claw hammer :}2
Joe
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Good mass production method there Mark, I think the only nails I'll need in my models are the 1 inch steel variety fitted with claw hammer :}2
Joe
Yea I'm really glad that I found this method as I used a draw plate before which takes ages and is not easy to use :-))
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Hi Mark,
As a time serve Joiner I am seriously impressed with the quality of your work, we had to do everything by hand (i.e. handplanes and spokeshaves) but the most impressive thing for me is your patience and precision in getting all the tricky shapes correct!
Keep up the good work I am following it all.
Cheers, Pete. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) [size=78%] [/size]
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Hi Mark , that's a pretty impressive way of making those small dowels or tree nails, pardon the ignorance but never seen a piercing needle before ?. You probably don't want these sort of suggestions <*< but would be interesting to see you build 2 of these models one to the framed up stage to show all that beautiful timber work and the other fully finished stage , cheers .
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Hi Mark,
As a time serve Joiner I am seriously impressed with the quality of your work, we had to do everything by hand (i.e. handplanes and spokeshaves) but the most impressive thing for me is your patience and precision in getting all the tricky shapes correct!
Keep up the good work I am following it all.
Cheers, Pete. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
Thanks Pete - This model is pretty much an exercise in joinery and I’m learning as I go. I’ve found that if the joints and shapes are not exact it has a bad knock on effect somewhere else.
Hi Mark , that's a pretty impressive way of making those small dowels or tree nails, pardon the ignorance but never seen a piercing needle before ?. You probably don't want these sort of suggestions <*< but would be interesting to see you build 2 of these models one to the framed up stage to show all that beautiful timber work and the other fully finished stage , cheers .
Hi Brian - I had never heard of piercing needles either but they are the needles that people use pierce their bodies with to fit jewellery. They are available on eBay and they are much stronger than hypodermic needles.
As for the framing I’m not going to fully agree plank this model. I’m going to leave parts of the planking off so that the frames can be seen in places.
Cheers Mark
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Hi Mark, thank you for explaining that ;) , keep up the good work :-)) .
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Hi All
Well after a fantastic holiday and a bit of a break I'm back on it :-))
So onto the whale and the plank below it - these timbers are big in fact the whale is 10.7mm x 3.3mm which was a complete pain to bend around the bow. The whale is made of 3 planks which are joined by scarf joints. The plank below is slightly smaller at 10mm x 3.3mm and has simple butt joints. A few pictures below
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4844.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4845.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4846.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4848.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4852.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4854.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4855.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4853.jpg)
I've now started the very difficult plank that wraps around the stern into the wing transom rabbet. It has to be carved due to the extremely tight curve and this is how it was done on the full size ship. My first attempt doesn't fit accurately enough - but its pointed me in the right direction for my next attempt.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4856.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4857.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4858.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4859.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/IMG_4860.jpg)
I think it will take a few attempts to get this particular plank right but I'll get there!!
Cheers Mark :-)
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Hi Mark,
Your work is very impressive a real masterclass in wood, being a time served Joiner I can appreciate the skill and patience required. Can you tell me where you obtained the clamps shown in your photos please as I could do with updating all of my old ones. Keep up the great work!
Kind regards,
Pete. :-)) :-)) :-))
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Hi Pete - Cheers mate its coming on albeit very slowly :-))
I use wolfcraft clamps - I've found them to be excellent and come in all shapes and sizes. I buy mine from Amazon as they usually have some good deals on. Just put wolfcraft into a search and loads will come up.
Mark
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Very nice work on the wale Mark, especially the hooked scarf joints. This is definitely a masterwork.
Jim
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Hiya Mark, great work as always and we're quite certain you'll come to a workable solution to the transom wing plank.
As has already been said, those scarf joints look fantastic - your doing really accurate work there mate. Cheers, Ray.
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Hi Jim and Ray - Thanks for the encouragement
So feeling a bit more confident I marked out both port and starboard sides this time.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/22/IMG_4861.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/22/IMG_4862.jpg)
I also found it easier to cut these pieces to very near to their finished size. This gave me less material to remove and a smaller contact area on the ship. Here's a comparison of my first and second try pieces
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/22/IMG_4863.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/22/IMG_4864.jpg)
Anyway after hours of fettling I'm glad to say that both sides are on %%
They are a bit rough at the moment as I need the next plank down to be fitted to get their final shape. Funnily enough they don't look like much either {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/22/IMG_4866.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/22/IMG_4867.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/22/IMG_4868.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/22/IMG_4869.jpg)
So next is to complete this strake on both sides and get some nails and tree nails into the planks.
Cheers Mark
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Yeah, I see what you mean about them not looking like much, apart from the last 2 pictures they were barely discernable.
There's a big difference between attempts one and two as well - good job mate. O0
Ray.
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Hi All
A bit more done - I've now completed the second strake and also put all of the iron nails and tree nails into the strakes.
The iron nails to scale should be 0.75mm but I've used 0.7mm carbon rod as this was the closest that I could get. The tree nails are 0.9mm which were made from boxwood.
Interestingly French ships used both iron and wooden nails on their planking whereas the English during this period only used wood. On this ship each plank is secured to the frame by 2 iron nails and 2 tree nails. The pattern used changes direction at the master frame.
A few pictures
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/03/IMG_4870.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/03/IMG_4871.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/03/IMG_4872.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/03/IMG_4873.jpg)
Cheers Mark
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A work of art ....
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Absolutely exquisite, every detail being given your usual skilful attention - looks superb mate!
Aye,
Ray.
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A work of art ....
Absolutely exquisite, every detail being given your usual skilful attention - looks superb mate!
Aye,
Ray.
Hi Martin and Ray - Thanks for the really nice words lads......This build sure is a test for me but I'm loving it. Would you believe the next stage is to cut some of the frames away on the port side so that the interior is visible once finished. I've marked it out but just cannot bring myself to make the cuts!!! I will as it has to be done but it can wait until next weekend. I think I will keep the parts that are removed as a keep sake :-))
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Some more done on Le Rochfort
I've made the next plank down on the port side which will frame the cut outs in the hull. Its still 3mm x 10mm at this point so it was quite a tricky bend around the transom but I'm pleased the way it came out.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/11/IMG_4883.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/11/IMG_4884.jpg)
The bow was much easier and once fitted I placed the iron and wooden nails as before.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/11/IMG_4885.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/11/IMG_4886.jpg)
Then after two weeks of putting it off I marked out and made the cut outs in the port side :o
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/11/IMG_4887.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/11/IMG_4888.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/11/IMG_4889.jpg)
The reason for the small opening towards the bow is because there is a small deck inside still to be made and fitted. The beams for this deck need to be able to rest on the frames. I don't envisage any more planking downward on the port side now it will probably stay as it is to show the frames when finished. I will fully plank the starboard side though at a much later date.
The next job is to complete the ceiling (the planking inside the hull) which is going to be a long slow job. I'll update you again when I've got something done worth showing.
Cheers Mark :-))
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With regard to the cutouts, if the planks on the other side are putting any stresses into the framework there is the possibility of distortion. If they were steamed into shape and lie happily in position then I think all will be well.
It’s an outstanding piece of work still. BZ.
Jerry C.
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Morning Mark
Just catching up on build progress, loving the level of and attention to detail. Inspiring as always.
Best regards
David.
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Morning Mark
Just catching up on build progress, loving the level of and attention to detail. Inspiring as always.
Best regards
David.
Hi David - Thanks mate I am making progress but its very slow. I'm currently planking the ceiling which has involved me not just spiling the planks but laminating them too. I'll get some pictures up soon.
On a positive note - Ancre who publish the plans have asked me for pictures of my build so far as my Le Rochefort may be on their 2023 calendar :-)) I've sent them some and even if they don't make it on I am a bit chuffed that they even asked!!!
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At last I have an update!
The ceiling planking has been proving problematic due to the thickness of the planking and the tight bends. The planking starts at 3.3mm thick and gradually reduces to 1.8mm as it gets closer to the keel.
So after breaking loads of planks trying to get this done I ended up laminating the first 3 strakes. The first strake is made up of 3 layers to a final thickness of 2.8mm.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/30/IMG_4919.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/30/IMG_4918.jpg)
The next 2 stakes were made of 2 layers oh and I should of said I had to spile them too :o
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/30/IMG_4921.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/30/IMG_4943.jpg)
The end result isn't quite as uniform as it should be but I'm happy with the way it looks
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/30/IMG_4954.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/30/IMG_4955.jpg)
So I now need to repeat this process on the starboard side which I think should be ok to do. Lastly here's a couple of pictures which hopefully show the planks decreasing in thickness as they get nearer the keel and across the transom.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/30/IMG_4956.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/30/IMG_4957.jpg)
Cheers Mark
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Well done Mark, lovely work. I wonder how the shipwrights of yesteryear achieved those bends in the full size timber?
Greg
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Well done Mark, lovely work. I wonder how the shipwrights of yesteryear achieved those bends in the full size timber?
Greg
Hi Greg I think the same thing all of the time. I'm working at 1/4 scale and the wood often says no to what I would like it to do. I think that they carved many of these timbers from solid pieces and what a skill that must have been.
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It's a pleasure to check out each post you put up of your build Mark , cheers mate :-))
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Thanks Brian :-))
The work continues and its far harder than I thought that it would be to plank the ceiling.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/12/28/IMG_4983.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/12/28/IMG_4984.jpg)
Here all of the planks are installed but not yet sanded. All of the hundreds of nails are also in place
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/12/28/IMG_4991.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/12/28/IMG_4992.jpg)
And after goodness knows how many weeks the ceiling is finished O0 :-))
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/12/28/IMG_4993.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/12/28/IMG_4994.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/12/28/IMG_4995.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/12/28/IMG_4996.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/12/28/IMG_4997.jpg)
There are a few gaps but overall I'm happy with the way things have turned out.
The next load of jobs is to completely fit out the hold. I'll be starting with the two lower breast hooks on the stem and them the stern sleepers.
Cheers Mark :-))
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All I can say Mark ,is Beautiful work and patience O0 :-))
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.
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Hi All I tried to do an update but for some reason it crashed and I lost all of the info. I think it's easier if I just put a few pictures up.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/08/IMG_5014.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/08/IMG_5015.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/08/IMG_5013.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/08/IMG_5018.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/08/IMG_5021.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/08/IMG_5023.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/08/IMG_5028.jpg)
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Hiya Mark, the cutting and shaping of those pieces look to be just as complicated as the other work you've done so far :o
What's the purpose of the latest piece you've fitted? I'm thinking it's to do with stepping a mast... just a wild guess though.
Ray.
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Mark your work just gets better and better, that’s truely beautiful with stunning photos well done
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Still watching in awe.
And yes, it's mildly irritating ( >>:-( ) when a carefully composed post suddenly suddenly vanishes into the ether never to return! (I have taken to composing anything lengthy in Word then pasting into the reply box - that way if the system does the dirty on you, you still have the original text.)
Looking forward to the next instalment! :-))
Greg
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Hiya Mark, the cutting and shaping of those pieces look to be just as complicated as the other work you've done so far :o
What's the purpose of the latest piece you've fitted? I'm thinking it's to do with stepping a mast... just a wild guess though.
Ray.
Hi Ray - hope you're ok mate. You are spot on that is the mast step which is why it's so well built. You can only imagine the stresses placed on it from the mast!
Mark your work just gets better and better, that’s truely beautiful with stunning photos well done
Thanks very much DBS88 - I do think that my carpentry is getting better now and its nice to be back making parts rather than just planking!
Still watching in awe.
And yes, it's mildly irritating ( >>:-( ) when a carefully composed post suddenly suddenly vanishes into the ether never to return! (I have taken to composing anything lengthy in Word then pasting into the reply box - that way if the system does the dirty on you, you still have the original text.)
Looking forward to the next instalment! :-))
Greg
Hi Greg you're not wrong - I did war and peace and then it wouldn't publish >>:-( I tried to copy and paste it as well but that refused to work too. Thanks for the nice comments I'll be making the stern sleepers next and then onto the well pumps :-))
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Hi Mark, still following this class in skill and patience, and have to say I'm just as much impressed with your patience as well as your skill nice going mate.
Joe.
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Hi Mark, still following this class in skill and patience, and have to say I'm just as much impressed with your patience as well as your skill nice going mate.
Joe.
Thanks Joe :-)) The great thing about building a static ship is that its going nowhere so there is no rush {-) I'm enjoying the challenge and I think thats the main thing here.
Ok the stern sleepers - Here they are. This is another part that is dead easy to make and then takes hours of patience to get a tight fit on the transom and hull.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/10/IMG_5030.jpg)
Here they are fitted and I was really pleased with the result. The beams for the small deck at the stern are also in place.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/10/IMG_5032.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/10/IMG_5031.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/10/IMG_5033.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/10/IMG_5034.jpg)
Next I'm going to make the pump well but I need to make 2 of the main deck beams first to make sure that I get the well in the correct place in the hull. These beams are huge - each one is made out of a piece of timber 15mm x 7.8mm x 200mm %% Thats a lot of wood for a lot of beams! I'll keep you all updated as I get this done.
Cheers Mark :-)
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It's a pity the old Model Engineering exhibition is no longer around. This would certainly have won a Gold medal if entered.On giving your work full recognition are you a member of the Society of Model Shipwrights? The quaility of your work is way up to that of the best of theirs. I'm sure they would welcome this model at their annual exhibition.
Jim
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Hi Jim - Cheers mate - I've never heard of the society of model shipwrights I'll have to look into that :-))
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So onto the beams - I made a few as I know I'm going to make mistakes %% I then put them onto the ship to check the crown height
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/12/IMG_5035.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/12/IMG_5038.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/12/IMG_5036.jpg)
I found that the height was roughly correct but then I discovered that the port side clamp that they rest upon was slightly lower than the starboard side.
So I spent most of the day building up the port side and then removing high spots on the starboard side. I can see the difference and it was worth the time.
So to fit the beams I cut the dovetails into the beams and the clamps
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/12/IMG_5046.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/12/IMG_5045.jpg)
They fit really nicely and are now at the correct final height barring a tiny bit for sanding fair.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/12/IMG_5043.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/12/IMG_5041.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/12/IMG_5044.jpg)
And all that to get the correct position of the pump well which I will be building next
Cheers Mark
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Remarkable, absolutely remarkable!
Such attention to detail deserves success - looking good mate :-))
Ray.
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Hi Ray and thanks mate :-))
So the pump well is now underway. It's a simple construction but difficult to fit into the hull correctly. It lives between the 2 beams that I made but is wider than the gap between them. So part of it has to sit snuggly against the bottom of the beams and part has to come through the middle of them.
Here's the main components
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5049.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5048.jpg)
And the assembly process except for the doors which will be fitted later
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5050.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5051.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5052.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5053.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5054.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5055.jpg)
The finished pump well complete with scale nails but without the doors
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5062.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5063.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5064.jpg)
Part of the inside planking had to be removed as the well sits on top of the frames. I also made the holes for the actual pumps too between the frames.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5056.jpg)
And here it is finally fitted nicely within the hull
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5060.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5061.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/16/IMG_5065.jpg)
The next job is to make the hinges and lock for the doors and get them on. - Cheers Mark :-))
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More lovely woodwork!
... and appears to fit nice and snug :-))
Ray.
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Wonderful work. Congratulations. :-)) :-)) :-))
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Mark well done, its hard to conceive that there could be another model boat built in this style built to the standard you are achieving. I have the Harold Underhill books for Plank on Frame models, he would have been very impressed with your modelling, your work is just exquisite, its a joy to behold
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Hi Lads and thanks very much - I'm so enjoying building this little ship :-))
I have seen ships built to a much higher standard and some of the things that some builders are doing now with CNC mills leaves me speechless! They are so clever at programming and the results are just amazing - its a real talent on its own.
I still like getting my chisels out and I think I'll carry on building my way for the time being. I've some metal work to do now which I haven't done for a very long time but I do love a challenge.
I'll keep you updated!
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This is one of my favourite build threads on any modeling forum on the internet, and I'm not a fan of Age of Sail ships. The joinery, the millwork... and not a single straight edge to be found! Amazing!
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This is one of my favourite build threads on any modeling forum on the internet, and I'm not a fan of Age of Sail ships. The joinery, the millwork... and not a single straight edge to be found! Amazing!
Thanks Nickelbelter :-))
So this update will come in two parts. Not many words but loads of pictures. I've now finished the hinges and lock for the pump well. Here's loads of pictures %%
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5070.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5072.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5073.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5074.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5075.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5076.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5078.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5077.jpg)
Cheers Mark
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Part 2
I've also made and fitted the two internal bulkheads which are easy to make and very hard to fit correctly.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5080.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5081.jpg)
Nice little samson post that leads up to the main deck
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5082.jpg)
Installed inside the hull complete with dovetailed main beams
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5085.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5084.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5086.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5087.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5088.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5089.jpg)
And here's where she is at the minute
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5090.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/20/IMG_5091.jpg)
The next job is to plank the small decks before fitting the bulkheads in permanently
Cheers Mark :-))
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Hiya Mark, - part 1=beautiful - part 2=excellent!
Aye,
Ray.
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Hiya Mark, - part 1=beautiful - part 2=excellent!
Aye,
Ray.
Hi Ray - we are starting to actually get what looks something like a ship at last :-))
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A small update - The small decks are now planked. This is a far as I will be planking them to keep the hull open.
The bow
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/24/IMG_5094.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/24/IMG_5095.jpg)
The stern
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/24/IMG_5096.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/24/IMG_5097.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/24/IMG_5099.jpg)
Now to make the hatches - the stern is of a simple construction and the bow is framed. Then I can fit the bulkheads in permanently
Cheers Mark
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Mark, this just gets more amazing, humble am I :embarrassed:
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Thanks Phil it really is starting to come together now but there is so much more to do.
I've tried my hand at making a hatch frame today which has these really nice over lapping mitre joints.
So firstly I cut 6 pieces in case of errors - They are 4.8mm x 2.5mm x 36mm. I then milled the 1.1mm x 1.9mm rebate into them.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5103.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5105.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5104.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5106.jpg)
Next I swivelled the vice to cut the first 45 degree angle
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5107.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5109.jpg)
And here's where it gets tricky to explain - The frame has two pieces with ears - here's some pictures I think it best {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5110.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5112.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5113.jpg)
And then has two pieces that are over lapped
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5114.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5115.jpg)
Here they are dry fitted together - the frame is 33mm square. Not to bad for a first attempt
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5116.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/25/IMG_5117.jpg)
Cheers Mark :-))
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Hiya Mark, that seems to be a technically demanding job you've done and so far, so good.
Would it have been possible to use a solid piece, mill out the rebates and then remove the central waste?
... not being critical mind, just thinking out loud really %)
Ray.
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Hi Ray - Yea absolutely it can be made so many different ways. I'm just sticking to the original plans as I want to build it as it was when it left the ship yard.
Its going to take at least another couple of years to get done I would have thought :-)
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I'm just sticking to the original plans as I want to build it as it was when it left the ship yard.
Ah, yes - I'd totally forgotten about that :embarrassed:
Aye,
Ray.
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Its going to take at least another couple of years to get done I would have thought :-)
Just like the rebuild of Tally Ho, when asked it's always another 2 years until completion.
Jim
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Jim your not wrong I always say 2 years {-) I will get it finished though thats for sure!!
Ok both the forward and aft hatches are now complete. The frame at the front just required me to cut the recesses for the battens and also cut the 45 degree angle around the frame
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5119.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5120.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5121.jpg)
Then make the forward hatch itself
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5123.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5122.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5124.jpg)
Luckily the aft hatch didn't need a frame and was very easy to make. I do like the 0.28mm carbon rod that I use for the nails I think it really looks to scale.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5101.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5100.jpg)
Lastly they were installed and the bulkheads are now permanently glued in as well.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5125.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5126.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5127.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5128.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/IMG_5129.jpg)
So the next job is to make 2 more Samson posts that lead up from the hold to the main deck. I need to make a couple of main beams to do this so I'm waiting on some tiny end mills to arrive as I broken all of the ones I had!
Cheers Mark
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Hi All
Another update
So first up was to make the tiny samson post bases and place them on the keelson. They are made of 1.4mm square Castello
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/01/IMG_5134.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/01/IMG_5135.jpg)
Next I made the samson posts themselves - I carved them as before as machining them would be very tricky
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/01/IMG_5139.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/01/IMG_5140.jpg)
And to make sure that everything lined up correctly I had to make another couple of main beams - A few pictures
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/01/IMG_5142.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/01/IMG_5143.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/01/IMG_5144.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/01/IMG_5145.jpg)
Next is to make the limber boards to complete the bilge and then make the beams for the hold deck - now that is going to be very tricky!
Cheers Mark :-)
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You've probably mentioned this already, but what are you using for the nails? How are you driving them in? And how are you making them flush?
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You've probably mentioned this already, but what are you using for the nails? How are you driving them in? And how are you making them flush?
Hi Steve I'm using carbon fibre rod - Just drill a hole and push it in and I'm using canopy glue to hold it in place. I prefer carbon as I find brass to too shiny and it is also hard to sand down unlike the carbon.
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Another update from me :-))
So the limber boards complete the bilge and are removable for cleaning. They are not nailed and sit slightly high to allow water to pass underneath them to the pumps.
So they sit on a small step next to the keelson and are rebated into the existing planking. The step is 1mm x 0.5mm and the rebates were cut on the table saw.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/02/IMG_5146.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/02/IMG_5147.jpg)
Next I moved onto the hold deck beams - Now these are difficult to get right as its an angle challenge from start to finish. Here's the results
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/02/IMG_5148.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/02/IMG_5149.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/02/IMG_5151.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/02/IMG_5150.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/02/IMG_5153.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/02/IMG_5154.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/02/IMG_5155.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/02/IMG_5156.jpg)
So my next job is to cut the planking and get the hold finished - Cheers Mark
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Ooooh! Scrumptious!!
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Hi Mark,
I am extremely impressed with your woodworking skills the detail is very impressive, it reminds me of serving my Apprenticeship as a carpenter/Joiner. I served my time (not prison) with a timber engineers who, I believe, where the leaders in manufacturing Trusses and Laminated beams which at the time (mid 60's) allowed a huge single span open space without vertical columns. We had to build all this by hand with only the basic wood machining available at the time, it would have been an awful lot easier with the machinery available today, your patience and determination to get things correct and looking right has to be truly admired! Well done to you, keep up the good work.
Kind regards,
Pete. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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Pete and Greg
Hi both and thanks for your comments :-)) I see Le Rochefort as an on going problem to be solved. I just take each little piece at a time as although its only a very small ship the overall build can get overwhelming.
How some builders make 3 deck ships of the line with cannon is beyond me as this is complex enough at the moment.
I am not a time served joiner - metal is my thing - but I have learnt how important sharp edged tools are. I get the nice edges by having surgically sharp chisels which are an absolute pleasure to use. They take no pressure to use them and they go through wood like a hot knife through butter.
The hold is almost finished and then I can get the main deck built. I've looked at the plans and I've never seen carpentry like it but it does look very nice.
I'll keep plodding on :-)
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Hi All
Another update from me - Things have slowed a bit as I'm now back to work after a few weeks off.
So the hold deck is now planked - Only halfway across so that I don't loose too much detail and I've not yet put the nails in as I'm waiting for a delivery of carbon rod.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/12/IMG_5162.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/12/IMG_5163.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/12/IMG_5164.jpg)
I've also been looking for some barrels to put into the hold. I opted for some lovely 1" tall barrels from the Syren model ship company. They do take some putting together as you have to fit very strake but it's doable. I also did not use the supplied black hoops and opted to paint them on in copper due to the cargo of gunpowder.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/12/IMG_5165.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/12/IMG_5167.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/12/IMG_5168.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/12/IMG_5169.jpg)
Cheers Mark
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Fantastic work Mark (still keeping up to your demanding standards) and even those barrels can't have been easy, getting them all looking identical must be a challenge in itself!
Aye,
Ray.
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Hi Ray - Thanks mate and you know what it's been so nice just making a kit in the form of barrels. It's been so long since I did a kit I forgot just how fun they can be.
Luckily making them all look the same will be easy as they are very well made - I had to import them from the USA and the postage cost more than the flipping barrels!!!
Here's a couple of pictures of one in the hold to give some perspective - they are tiny!
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/12/IMG_5170.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/12/IMG_5171.jpg)
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Absolutely stunning Mark :-))
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Absolutely stunning Mark :-))
Thanks Brian and it's all your fault - I saw your carpentry and thought yea I want to try some of that. What a great journey it it is too :-))
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Hi Mark, skill plus patience == Masterpiece well I don't know what else you would call it, :-)) :-))
Joe.
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Like Joe, I have no words..........I cannot wait for the next pics... :-))
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Hi All
Honestly thanks so much for you comments - especially from builders like yourselves that quite frankly I have copied and learnt from. For some reason I don't get emails anymore letting me know about updates on the forum.
This is not much of an update as I've been very ill with some kind of virus - I don't go sick from work so I've been working through it but wow this really has left me tired. So I've done as much as I can and I'm glad to say that I'm getting better now :)
So the hold deck is now nailed
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/11/IMG_5179.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/11/IMG_5180.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/11/IMG_5181.jpg)
I've also finished all of the other barrels - I have to say though that they are historically incorrect. I discovered that French powder barrels were always circled with chestnut. I could have changed them but I really like the copper and quite frankly its my ship!! So I'm just going to pretend that they were plundered from a captured English ship.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/11/IMG_5182.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/11/IMG_5183.jpg)
It took me ages to find my build on the forum - and then I saw that it had been pinned at the top. Thanks Martin I just hope the finished ship meets everyone's expectations.
Have a great weekend - Mark
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:-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
Greg
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Hiya Mark, like you I too have caught some sort of virus and slowly getting over it.
Good to know you're still doing some work on this and it's looking good mate. :-) :-))
Ray.
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Greg and Ray - Lovely to hear from you both :-))
Yea Ray - Honestly mate I don't get ill ever - but this thing tried to stop me in my tracks. It took 3 days of work off of me but since then I've just tried to crack on. I've managed it but it's just left me weak which is a feeling that I do not like. It won't beat me but I've just not got time for anything else but sleep {-)
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Mark, your building is so impressive, but like (probably most of have had these days) Your health is more important, but slowly keep up the really impressive work, I am learning a lot......
As my late father said....
If you are happy with the work.....your work is good ....but always learn
I am learning a lot from your posts
Steam boats now are still a leaning curve after 50 years,,,,,,,
\
Wood is main medium, but then I am more of a wood butcher ........
But brush painting........I am a wow :-)) :-))
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Hi Phil - cheers mate I'm feeling much better now thank goodness.
I need to start work now on the main deck - Although I've made 6 beams already to assist in building some of the interior I think there are about 22 in total.
So I'll start a small production line as they all are slightly different as are the dovetails that join them to the deck clamp. They also have a double dovetail on the top surface to accommodate the water way and spirketting. Another conundrum to solve but I'll keep you all updated
Cheers Mark
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I’m not getting notifications either. Whole house has had Covid bar me.
Spirketting, don’t know what it means but it’s now my favourite word.
Back in UK 1st May.
Jerry C.
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As good as it gets Mark! Echoing all of the positive sentiments made so far. This is absolutely outstanding work and a joy to read through and follow.
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Hi Guys
Sorry for the lack of replies or work..........our mom passed away..............and well you can imagine.
Anyway I've chucked myself back into the ship as it's my passion. So onwards with the main beams and boy do these take a lot of wood to make. I cut them out and sanded them all to the desired curve.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/15/IMG_5193.jpg)
Now each beam has to have 3 dovetails cut into it. The first is to locate it into the deck clamp, the second to locate the waterway and the third to locate the spirketting (Jerry this was a new one on me too mate :) )
So I decided to do these by hand %% Firstly I placed the templates on and then marked the depth of the joint
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/15/IMG_5195.jpg)
Using a nice new Stanley blade I then cut out the joint
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/15/IMG_5196.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/15/IMG_5197.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/15/IMG_5198.jpg)
Then cleaned it all up with a small chisel
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/15/IMG_5200.jpg)
And the final joint looks like this
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/15/IMG_5201.jpg)
I've finished all of the stern beams which are nicely lined up
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/15/IMG_5202.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/15/IMG_5203.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/15/IMG_5204.jpg)
I still need to cut the rebates for the hatches and carlings but that will wait until I've finished all of the forward beams. And thats my next job :-))
Cheers Mark
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Sorry to hear about your mom.
Your work is remarkable. Green with envy, but then I don't have your patience.
All the best.
-
Condolences Mark
Your work I think is an inspiration to us all
Keep going, you can do it (on both counts)
I know I have been there
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My condolences also Mark, Still following along, as a time served carpenter and joiner (retired) I can appreciate your skill with wood.
Joe.
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Hi Lads
And thank you to you all I really appreciate your kind words.
So the build continues and I have now made the forward main beams. Just like before they have been cut to size and carved
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/25/IMG_5206.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/25/IMG_5207.jpg)
Then I cut the dovetails into the deck clamp ensuring that they all sat at the correct height
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/25/IMG_5208.jpg)
Ans just like the stern - at the stem the beams had to line up with the breast hook which was made and fitted over a year ago %%
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/25/IMG_5210.jpg)
A couple more pictures including the most simple thing ever - two pins - a length of red thread - dead centre for the length of the hull. If only everything was that easy eh!!
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/25/IMG_5209.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/25/IMG_5211.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/25/IMG_5212.jpg)
The next jobs are to mark out and cut the notches in all of the beams for the hatches and carlings
Thanks for the nice comments
Mark :-)
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Wow,
Just picked up on this thread. Your skill is simply outstanding. Beautiful work.
-
Wow,
Just picked up on this thread. Your skill is simply outstanding. Beautiful work.
Hi Footski - cheers mate she's coming along nicely now and actually starting to look like what most people think a ship should look like. I reckon I've 2 - 3 years left on this one to get her finished just right :-))
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Mark,
I will be following this thread with keen interest from now on….
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Mark,
I will be following this thread with keen interest from now on….
Thanks - this is the first true scale and scratch built ship that I've tried to build. It's enjoyable and madly frustrating at the same time. I'm lucky because Gerald Delacroix who designed the plans I'm working from is great because he will answer any questions that I have. There are so many little details that I really have to scrutinise; this is to ensure that its built in the correct sequence.
-
Hi All
Work on the deck continues - Having found the centre line I placed the templates for cutting the notches in the beams. These notches are for the carlings, binding strakes, mast partner and pump partners.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/06/IMG_5213.jpg)
I mainly used the mill to cut these out as there are so many of them. They were all then finished with a chisel
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/06/IMG_5214.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/06/IMG_5215.jpg)
Then it was a simple job of making the carlings for the hatches trying to make the joints as tight as possible
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/06/IMG_5218.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/06/IMG_5217.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/06/IMG_5216.jpg)
I now have to make the 8 half beams that fit alongside the hatches and the mast partner. I think these will take me quite a while to do so I'll update you as soon as I can.
Cheers Mark
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Then it was a simple job ....
Ah, no, that's not allowed. No simple jobs on this build please. We have become used to you cutting impecable precision joints and carving complex curves. If we thought any of this was simple we might start getting ideas above our station and try it ourselves! %%
Splendid work Mark, as usual!
Greg
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Ah, no, that's not allowed. No simple jobs on this build please. We have become used to you cutting impecable precision joints and carving complex curves. If we thought any of this was simple we might start getting ideas above our station and try it ourselves! %%
Splendid work Mark, as usual!
Greg
Ha ha thanks Greg {-) You know what it was nice to produce something that was just a simple straight plank with no curves!!!
-
Mark.......you mentioned months ago about changing from the Proxxon mill with the aluminium table to a Shearline? mill with a iron/steel table OK, but is that a magnetic sandwich-support base we see under the PM40 Proxxon vice?
Similar to ......https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.walmart.ca%2Fen%2Fip%2FINTBUYING-Fine-Pole-Permanent-Magnetic-Chuck-For-Grinding-Machine-6-18-inch%2FPRD219DHI85XJT5&psig=AOvVaw2uLw25sSKBlJdZ7h-uvSgd&ust=1683498672854000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=2ahUKEwjM5qK03-H-AhUp43MBHbb5D0YQr4kDegUIARCxAg (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.walmart.ca%2Fen%2Fip%2FINTBUYING-Fine-Pole-Permanent-Magnetic-Chuck-For-Grinding-Machine-6-18-inch%2FPRD219DHI85XJT5&psig=AOvVaw2uLw25sSKBlJdZ7h-uvSgd&ust=1683498672854000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=2ahUKEwjM5qK03-H-AhUp43MBHbb5D0YQr4kDegUIARCxAg)
Again, our humble words best describe your build progress O0
Derek
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Hi Derek
Thanks for the kind words - I did change my mill to the Sherline quite a while ago which really is an amazing machine.
Back when I had the Proxxon I needed to be able to angle the vice so I required a very small angle plate and thats what you can see. I've carried it across to my new mill as it does the job so well. You can see them on the website below but the cost is quite simply eye watering
https://www.renishaw.com/shop/Product.aspx?Product=R-PCA-135075-12-6&lang=en (https://www.renishaw.com/shop/Product.aspx?Product=R-PCA-135075-12-6&lang=en)
Mark
-
Another small update
I've been working on making the mast partner as I need this to fit 2 of the half beams. The first job was to make sure that I got a good fit with the carlings
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/08/IMG_5219.jpg)
These were then recessed to fit flush with the beams - I left a little on so that I have something to sand down to deck level
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/08/IMG_5220.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/08/IMG_5221.jpg)
Next I cut the notches for the other two parts of the mast partner and the dovetails for the half beams
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/08/IMG_5222.jpg)
Nice and symmetrical
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/08/IMG_5223.jpg)
Then the other two parts of the mast partner were made in basically the same way. The actual hole for the mast is bevelled towards the stern but this is not difficult to achieve.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/08/IMG_5224.jpg)
The parts assembled - There are still 4 small corners to make but I will make these once the mast partner is permanently installed on the ship.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/08/IMG_5226.jpg)
The parts on the ship between the beams
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/08/IMG_5225.jpg)
Still loads to do - Cheers Mark
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Hi All
More done on the deck - I've now made the short and thinner half beams that sit between the hatches and the mast partner
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/13/IMG_5228.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/13/IMG_5229.jpg)
Now I did make an error as I thought that I would try and make the female part of the dovetail joint first and then fit the beam joints to suit. This was much harder to do and the joints are not so tight. They are ok but not as good as I would like them but at least I tried something different. Here are the half beams fitted on the ship.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/13/IMG_5231.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/13/IMG_5232.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/13/IMG_5233.jpg)
I still need to lower a few of them into the deck clamp a little more but on the whole the deck looks pretty good and I don't think its going to take much sanding at all.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/13/IMG_5234.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/13/IMG_5230.jpg)
The deck on this ship is unusual as the beams are not supported by hanging knees. Instead it has a large timber called a deck shelf which is fixed to the entire length of the deck clamp. So I need to remove all of the dry fit beams and make this large and complicated part. Hopefully I will have something to show you soon.
Cheers Mark
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Mark it’s looking better and better, great work, your wood working is a joy to behold
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Mark it’s looking better and better, great work, your wood working is a joy to behold
Thanks DBS88 - Its my little challenge every week - Try and improve on what I've done before.
-
Not only is the skill level incredible, but the knowledge to go with it is simply astounding.
-
Not only is the skill level incredible, but the knowledge to go with it is simply astounding.
Hi Footski - Its one of those things; when I set out to build this ship I wasn't really interested in ship architecture at all. As it happens I discovered that if you don't understand the relative parts of the ship it makes the build sequencing very difficult to work out. So I'm learning it as I go along and it's very interesting to see how the French and English had different ways of doing things. I have quite a few books on the subject now and they are a great source of reference for me.
-
Hi All
I've now made a start on the deck shelves which add additional support to the beams. They are made of 6.9mm thick Castello and run the full length of the deck
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/19/IMG_5240.jpg)
Once cut out and sanded to shape they are joined with scarf joints
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/19/IMG_5242.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/19/IMG_5243.jpg)
The shelves do not sit at 90 degrees to the deck clamp - they point upwards slightly and follow the curvature of the deck. So a bevel has to be cut their entire length and they also have to be let into the deck clamp for a tight fit. Once I had achieved that I clamped them in place and used the beams themselves to mark their positions. I need this as I have to cut a recess into the shelves for the beams.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/19/IMG_5244.jpg)
The marking out went really well
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/19/IMG_5245.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/19/IMG_5246.jpg)
So now I've got loads of recesses to cut and carry out the final shaping of the beams
Cheers Mark
-
Outstanding Mark
-
Phil I have to be honest - This is one of those parts which when made pretty much give you an idea of how things are going. As it runs the length of the hull if its out of shape it's going to be very obvious. It does fit without too much fettling but I had no idea before I made them. I still need to cut the rebates buts its a weight off my mind. Thanks for your nice comment :-))
-
Absolutely amazing work there Mark ,credit to you :-)) ....
-
This workmanship and standard is just awe inspiring!!
-
Absolutely amazing work there Mark ,credit to you :-)) ....
Thanks Brian she's coming along :-))
This workmanship and standard is just awe inspiring!!
Thanks RichM :-))
So another update - First up was to cut out the notches for the beams in the deck shelf
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5261.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5262.jpg)
And then glue the shelf into place - this was really easy I just had to bend it a bit to match the curve of the deck clamp.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5268.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5269.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5270.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5271.jpg)
I then made and fitted the small knees that join the deck shelf to the transom
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5272.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5273.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5274.jpg)
Then lastly a final dry fit of the deck to make sure that everything fitted and was correct
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5264.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5267.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5265.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/29/IMG_5266.jpg)
So my next jobs are to remove the deck and put a final finish on the inside of the hull. I can then glue the deck in place; finish the mast partner and make the pump partners before fairing the deck. Hopefully I'll have some more pictures next week.
Cheers Mark
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Lovely. Delightful. And all those other words that don't quite capture the pleasure we all get from following your progress. The only sad bit is how much of your work will be almost invisible once the hull is complete. We will have to keep referring back to this build log to remind ourselves of the earlier work!
Greg
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Hi Greg - Thanks mate - I'm only going to plank one side of the ship fully and deck one side too. But you are right most of the work will never be seen again just like real ships I guess.
So I've been working on installing the deck beams permanently and they pretty much just clicked into place.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/04/IMG_5276.jpg)
I then had to finish the mast partner corners which I had not made previously. I also set the internal angle for the mast towards aft.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/04/IMG_5284.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/04/IMG_5285.jpg)
Next were the pump partners which are smaller versions of the mast partner. OK I'll admit it these were hard to make due to their size {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/04/IMG_5277.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/04/IMG_5278.jpg)
Lastly the deck was faired - another milestone in my build. Here's a few pictures for you.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/04/IMG_5279.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/04/IMG_5281.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/04/IMG_5280.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/04/IMG_5282.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/04/IMG_5283.jpg)
So now I need to place the nails in all of this work which is not my most favoured job. I'll have a go at that next weekend.
Cheers Mark
-
Mark, this build just get better and better, I am ashamed at my building skills.....
:(( :(( :((
-
Mark, this build just get better and better, I am ashamed at my building skills.....
:(( :(( :((
Phil I was hoping to make it to Mayhem - but as always the job got in the way. It would be great to meet you all in person
So a bit more from me - I couldn't bring myself to put loads of nails in yet so I have started the waterway instead. This is not my first attempt as that went in the bin.
Starting at the bow firstly I needed the part to fit snuggly onto the hawse timbers and still sit flat on the beams and breast hook
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5288.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5289.jpg)
Now my problems really set in as I had to work from the bottom up to get the correct dimensions.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5290.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5291.jpg)
The parts were milled for the dovetails and the recess for the breast hook
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5292.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5293.jpg)
A nice snug fit onto the beams
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5294.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5295.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5296.jpg)
Next the camber was cut allowing for the thickness of the deck timbers and planks above
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5299.jpg)
In situ
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5297.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5298.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/17/IMG_5300.jpg)
I have to say that these two pieces were pretty tricky to make but I'm there now. More of the waterway to make now!
Cheers Mark
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Mark some very complex parts beautifully made, they look fabulous, I wish you success with the next steps, thank you for such nice updates
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Mark some very complex parts beautifully made, they look fabulous, I wish you success with the next steps, thank you for such nice updates
Thanks very much - I think that this build will run for a very long time to come and this is quite a simple ship in reality. I still struggle a bit to understand the drawings but I'm getting there. How they ever built these things full size in the 16th century is beyond me!
-
Hi Mark....
A bit late in the game & apologies if I have missed it, [apart from Costello boxwood] but could you confirm the specie of timbers you are using for both the planking and also structural sections.....whatever they are, they certainly accept chisel work & machining to present very crisp jointings
Derek
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Hi Derek
The whole construction is Castello boxwood and I get it all from the same supplier.
It really does hold an edge and there is very little grain so it's probably the most perfect wood to use.
Builders in America would love to be able to get their hands on some; but due to import regulations it's in short supply over there and what there is.......well you can imagine the cost.
Pear wood is a great alternative but its not quite as hard
Mark
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Hi Mark,
Hope you're keeping well.
This build is an absolute joy to follow, thanks for posting so many images of your exquisite work. I'm not sure how far you may be into the project but the journey is certainly an enjoyable one for us all.
Cheers!!
Phil
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Hi Phil
Yep we're all good thanks mate and thanks for your comments.
I'm 2.5 years into this build now and its just getting better for me :-)) I really like the challenge and these things do improve your carpentry - wether I like it or not {-)
I think I've got about another 2 years on this build and I'll keep on posting. I only ever build one ship at a time as I find it solving problems in the build easier.
My wife thinks that I need to change my workshop around so that I have more room - who am I to argue {-)
I think thats a project in its own
Mark
-
Hi All
I've not stopped building but the build has stopped me moving forward at a decent rate. I've been incorrectly calling these parts the waterway but they are in fact the spirketting. Boy is this a hard piece to make which is why I've not updated this thread. Each piece is just over a foot long and has to fit pretty much exactly as it is 9mm square and really does not want to bend.
So my problem is the width of "A" is not constant and changes throughout its length. Angle "B" also changes by about 18 degrees throughout its length too - it's like a moving 3D puzzle. I will get there just bear with me.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/21/IMG_0009.jpg)
A frustrated Mark {-)
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It looks like you are solving the problems very well to me.
-
Thanks Footski I am getting there :-)) I've now managed to cut the bevels accurately enough so that the parts sit flat on the beams. As I discovered if the bevel isn't correct the dovetails are out of line by about 2mm so they have to be exact.
A couple of pictures of the rough timbers in place now that they have been shaped
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/22/IMG_0012.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/22/IMG_0013.jpg)
And a couple of pictures of the bevel transition from one end to the other
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/22/IMG_0017.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/22/IMG_0018.jpg)
So I've now marked out the dove tails which need cutting out - I'm getting there
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/22/IMG_0015.jpg)
Cheers Mark
-
Absolutely amazing Mark O0 :-)) .
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Absolutely amazing Mark O0 :-)) .
Thanks Brian - we certainly test ourselves :-))
Just a quick update - I've now rough finished one piece of four. The dove tails were cut
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/23/IMG_0019.jpg)
Then the internal bevel was roughed out and the part fitted to the beams. It pretty much clips into place and fits well but will fit better once clamped in place. The bevel will be finished once the inner waterway is made and the planking above is fitted
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/23/IMG_0020.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/23/IMG_0021.jpg)
I'll update this build once I get the rest of these pieces completed - Cheers Mark
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Hi All
The work continues on the spirketting - loads more dove tails and bevels to cut
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/31/IMG_0026.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/31/IMG_0027.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/31/IMG_0028.jpg)
Then after loads of fettling they do actually fit {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/31/IMG_0023.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/31/IMG_0024.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/31/IMG_0029.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/31/IMG_0030.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/07/31/IMG_0031.jpg)
So thats those parts in and done and I am so glad about that too - they were not easy to make and achieve a good fit at the same time. The next part will be the inner waterway so more dovetails to cut {-)
Cheers Mark
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Hi Mark ...that aluminium multi tapped block plate looks pretty handy for accurate angular setups....
Are they M8 tapping?
Do you tram alignment from the edge of the plate?
.....and is that a renamed Sherline to Apple milling machine {-) ?
Derek
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Hi Derek
The plate is a "Tooling Plate" and makes life so much easier. It's clamped to the mill bed and is set square using a DTI across its length.
Once done all you need is an engineers square and as you say you can tram from the edge of the plate.
The holes are a UNC thread which is very close to 4mm and the larger holes are 6mm which I drilled and tapped for my vice. This is the small version as Sherline do supply a larger one too. Another great feature of these plates is it saves any damage to the mills bed should anything go wrong.
As for the stickers - yep my grand kids love customising my gear {-)
Mark
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Another update from me - The inner waterway os pretty much the same construction but easier to make.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/04/IMG_0032.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/04/IMG_0033.jpg)
The dovetails really help hold these parts in place but they do need clamping to pull them down to the sheer. The glued in parts
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/04/IMG_0036.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/04/IMG_0037.jpg)
Next I made and fitted the first plank up the bulwarks. Then all 3 parts were sanded down and blended together. I'm really pleased with the final result.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/04/IMG_0041.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/04/IMG_0042.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/04/IMG_0043.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/04/IMG_0044.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/04/IMG_0045.jpg)
The next parts to make are the binding strakes which give the ship even more longitudinal strength.
Cheers Mark :-))
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I am stunned, not only by the level of skill in the workmanship, but the knowledge that goes with it. Amazing!
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I am stunned, not only by the level of skill in the workmanship, but the knowledge that goes with it. Amazing!
Hi Footski and thanks very much - I've found that I'm pretty much just learning naval architecture as I go along. I've found the build easier by reading books on the subject and it's very fascinating.
Have a look on the Ancre FR. website and their are many monographs including Le Rochefort that they sell with the ships history and full plans too.
Mark
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Mark,
That is a wonderful site, full of all the things a model ship builder could ever want. I will be perusing the site in detail over the coming days..Thank you for the link.
-
You're very welcome - I know of people that collect the monographs as they really are beautifully put together. Quite often they have no intention of actually building the ship but they give such an insight into the ships history and its architecture.
Now that I'm really into it I cannot even imagine how they fashioned some of the pieces full size. They also built them so quickly too! I've also been surprised just how strong these vessels were - even my model ship is so strong it doesn't flex anywhere and it's not even planked yet!
Another really good book is "The art of ship modelling" by Bernard Frolich. Everything you will ever need to know is in this fascinating book that is fully of illustrations of his amazing ships.
-
Hi All
I've not had a lot of time lately but the binding strakes are now complete. The front pieces are pretty much more of the same - cut to length and mark out the joints for the mill.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/28/IMG_0059.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/28/IMG_0060.jpg)
The real challenge begins when the strakes partially pass over the hatch openings as I needed to scribe around each part to get a really good fit. The issue was maintaining width A in the image below
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/28/IMG_0063-1.jpg)
Now you don't actually have to do this I just wanted to - And why not? So instead of having straight simple joints I ended up with these complex parts
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/28/IMG_0064.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/28/IMG_0065.jpg)
I think the results were worth the effort and I have also now caught up on the nailing of these parts - A job that I have come to dislike {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/28/IMG_0070.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/28/IMG_0071.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/28/IMG_0073.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/08/28/IMG_0072.jpg)
I think that I'm going to leave the main deck as it is without any further planking. This causes me issues with parts that need sitting on it as they would all need raising. I'm unsure at the moment but there is no rush to decide; I just like the way you can see inside?
So my next jobs are to make the bits, bowsprit partner, windlass supports and finish planking the bulwarks up to the gunwale.
Cheers Mark
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Fantastic workmanship Mark. And great patience!
Chris
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Fantastic workmanship Mark. And great patience!
Chris
Well, it’s ok I suppose!!!!!! :-)) :-)) :-))
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Fantastic workmanship Mark. And great patience!
Chris
Thanks Chris its coming on slowly :-))
Well, it’s ok I suppose!!!!!! :-)) :-)) :-))
This cracked me up - cheers Footski {-) %% :-))
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I think that I'm going to leave the main deck as it is without any further planking. This causes me issues with parts that need sitting on it as they would all need raising. I'm unsure at the moment but there is no rush to decide; I just like the way you can see inside?
Yes, I think being able to view the inside is essential - it would be a crying shame to hide any of that lovely work you have done. Have you considered partial planking of the main deck? Perhaps one side planked? You could extend it over the centreline where there is deck furniture is sitting on the deck.
Lovely work as always - and if it helps to encourage you, the nailing adds a lot to the overall effect.
Greg
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Hi Greg - Thanks for the reply and I’m with you I just cannot cover it all up. At the moment I’m unsure what to do so I think I’ll just park it for a while and get on with other parts. I know that I will have to put a base on the manger as it needs to be lined with pewter and probably a few other places too. I’m just not sure what the planking would add but I can see what it would remove.
Also the nailing is always an issue on models like this. I’m currently using 4 different sizes of iron nails and 2 of treenails. I’m trying to make it look like it doesn’t have a bad case of the measels {:-{
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Hi Mark....you mention Iron Nails........I have about 660 gm of ~~1mm x 10mm serrated mixture of Brass/Monel planking nails, however some are flat head & some domed ....but would also like to consider Iron nails
Pre-rust on the hull planking before sealing %) ......maybe the Iron would not corrode/oxidise that would occur with Steel?
Could you please give us a heads-up on the source of the Iron nails, as WEB sellers may not know the difference between Iron or Steel...I see plenty of offers of steel, but none specifying Iron, and thinking about this...ductile steel wire would be far easier to produce serrated steel nails as opposed to Iron wire which is not friendly drawing to wire as is not all that ductile >>:-(
I also have some 370 gms of ~~3mm x 15mm serrated mixture of Monel/Brass nails for heavier structural joints
Your nailing is far from anything but absolutely uniform in spacing and angularity.......are you using some nailing Jigs to ensure alignment?
Derek
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Hello there Mark, having stepped away from the hobby for a number of months I'm now back onboard and playing catch-up on a fair number of build threads, including this one, so I'll be having a step back for a few pages and see how you got to where you are now - I'm sure it'll be just as fascinating as ever.
Cheers!
Ray.
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Hi Derek - Now what I say are iron nails is a sleight of hand. I do not use brass nails at all as they are so difficult to use. They never seem to go in straight, are generally out of scale and to sand down in wood is difficult. They make the process hard and chew up abrasive paper very quickly. So instead I use carbon fibre rod of the correct diameter and glue it in using canopy glue. It sands roughly at the same rate as wood and more importantly it looks black and not shiny gold. I buy it in metre lengths and is easy to find on the net. I also have to say it’s very strong too. So be like me and cheat %%
Hi Ray - Always great to hear from you - hope you’re doing okay :-))
-
Sorry I should’ve said - I don’t use a jig- I just very roughly mark the pattern out with a pencil and then go for it with a drill. I see many ships that are utterly perfect but I prefer the somewhat rough look. When they were originally built I would imagine that perfect nailing patterns were very far from the ship wrights mind.
-
Hi All
Sorry for the delay in updates but time is not my friend at present - I think I need to retire - well in 9 years anyway {-)
So Carrying on - I fitted two more strakes of planking on the bulwarks which entailed piercing the holes for the hawse holes and scuppers to the outside of the vessel. This is easy you just need to take you time to stop the wood from splitting.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0090.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0088.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0086.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0091.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0092.jpg)
Next was to make and fit the deck clamps for the small aft and forward decks. Loads of clamps as I didn't want them to move which in turn will later affect the deck beams.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0092.jpg)
So then I had to make and fit the planks between what was already fitted and the deck clamps. This is not hard if you measure the gaps correctly and then plan the planking accordingly. I would imagine its a nightmare without doing this. The clamps are slightly thicker than then planking so a simple taper if required to make them flush. I've attached a picture below which explains this better.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0113.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0116.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0118.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0117.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0114.jpg)
Not too bad but I have made one mistake - I cut the bulwark planks a bit too short to allow for the scroll which comes down to the gunwale.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0115.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0120.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/10/15/IMG_0119.jpg)
No big deal its just something that I will have to sort out later.
Cheers all - Mark :-))
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Hiya Mark, your explanation of what went wrong, coupled with the photos makes perfect sense to me.
Your ability to put it right is certain to achieve a positive outcome.
Cheers,
Ray.
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Hiya Mark, your explanation of what went wrong, coupled with the photos makes perfect sense to me.
Your ability to put it right is certain to achieve a positive outcome.
Cheers,
Ray.
Hi Ray - As always mate great to hear from you. I'll get it sorted one way or another :)
So moving forward I've focused on the bow of the ship. I needed to make the bowsprit partners (the bits that hold the bowsprit in place) and the manger (a lead lined section of the ship which removes the water brought up when bringing the anchors up).
So due to restrictions in space the first thing I had to do was to make the metal liners for the manger scuppers (the bit that gets the water out of the ship). I used pewter rather than lead as lead has a detrimental effect on models in the long term. The angle of the scuppers is tricky so first off I made a 4mm tube of pewter that fitted into the scupper holes.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0139.jpg)
Next was to make a jig to cut the tube to the desired angle
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0140.jpg)
The top required rolling over to stop it falling out of the hole
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0143.jpg)
And then a trial fit into the hull
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0144.jpg)
Next was onto the bowsprit partners - they are easy to make and difficult to fit. The partners must line up with 3 things - the bowsprit itself, the beams above (not yet made but their overall height it paramount and they must also be perpendicular to the keel - phew!!!
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0145.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0146.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0147.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0148.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0149.jpg)
Then onto the manger - I have at last decided not to plank the main deck so that the inside can be seen. I did though need to plank the base of the manger
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0150.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0151.jpg)
And then it was just pretty much line the manger with the pewter. I used cyano which I very much regret as it dries to fast and I now have lumps under the metal. Having said that I do like the way the scuppers sit right in the corner of the manger just where they should be.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0155.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0154.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0153.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0152.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/08/IMG_0156.jpg)
So the next job is to make the final 2 breast hooks on the bow
Thanks Mark :)
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Hi All
Some more done - the final 2 breast hooks for the hawse timbers. The upper one is made of 3 pieces and the lower is much more straight forward.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0157.jpg)
The lower after shaping and also cutting a recess for the bowsprit.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0163.jpg)
And after fitting onto the ship
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0165.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0166.jpg)
The upper breast hook was a completely different animal to make. It has a gentle curve as the forward deck planks sit directly onto it. It also has to be parallel in thickness as it sits onto the clamp and is also recessed into it. It also has to align with the bowsprit - pretty easy then {-)
So first up was to shape the outside perimeter and then cut the inside curve. I did this by using an angle plate on the spindle sander.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0158.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0159.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0160.jpg)
Next I made a jig to match the curve just cut which allowed me to cut the outer curve and keep the whole thing parallel
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0161.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0162.jpg)
I then had to cut the recess for the clamp and also the recess for the bowsprit
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0168.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0169.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0170.jpg)
It all kinda makes sense when you see it installed on the ship
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0171.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0172.jpg)
The view through the bowsprit hole which just needs a little fettling to its final diameter
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0173.jpg)
And finally one of my favourite pictures of the build so far - I just needs a little tidying up
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/12/IMG_0174.jpg)
So the next steps are to finish the forward deck beams and everything else that goes below them. These include a small office, the ships stove and a few other parts.
Cheers all - Mark
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Lovely work. I envy your attention to detail, skill and patience. I was in the back of the queue for the patience ration {-)
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Hi Dougal99 and thanks - would you believe that it was my uncle Ray who suggested that I build a model boat to control my lack of patience many years ago. He was right and I've not looked back since :-))
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Mark,
Your knowledge and skill never ceases to amaze me. I hope the bowsprit fits after all that work.... :o :o :o
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Mark,
Your knowledge and skill never ceases to amaze me. I hope the bowsprit fits after all that work.... :o :o :o
Thanks mate - I reckon it’ll fit with some fettling. My biggest problem is making the bowsprit as I don’t have a lathe. I’m going to see if I can bash one up on the mill somehow
-
Maybe not your style, but I created tapered spars on a sailing ship by holding sandpaper to a dowel rotating in an electric drill. I found the maximum length I could get away with was about 10 inches. Beyond that the flexing motio istoo strong.
HTH
-
While its a lot more work aking it the same way as the full size one will work. You will probably need to make some planing jigs to get the right taper. Start with a square cross section then plane off the corners to get 8 sides. If you have a fine enough plane then plane down the corners again and finish with sandpaper or go straight to sandpaper.
Jim
-
Hi both and thanks for the ideas. I will start experimenting very soon :-))
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Hi All
Change of plan - I realised that I had to plank the outside first as putting in anymore beams would cause issues with clamping the planks.
So I had to make the moulded planks - first up was to make a scraper out of an old blade using my mill
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/26/IMG_0185.jpg)
Before scraping I removed the deepest part of the wood on the table saw to make the process a little easier
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/26/IMG_0187.jpg)
I then got on with the scraping which was a new experience for me. It's actually quite simple once you get into it.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/26/IMG_0186.jpg)
Before cutting to the final thickness I just needed to check the profile against the drawings
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/26/IMG_0186.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/26/IMG_0189.jpg)
And now I have the final product which needs to be attached to the hull
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/26/IMG_0190.jpg)
I just have to decide whether to make the scarf joints between the planks or take the practical option of butt joints - I'm a bit unsure what to do at the moment.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/26/IMG_0191.jpg)
I'm very pleased with the way these parts have turned out and I'll keep you up to date as to which way I'll go with the joints
Cheers Mark
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Hi All
Well I bottled it {-) I just couldn't see how to make the scarf joints in the moulded rail and keep it still looking good. So I opted for simple butt joints instead. First off I marked out the run of the rail using automotive lining tape.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/03/IMG_0196-1.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/03/IMG_0197-1.jpg)
The I got on with fitting it into position. It took quite a lot of heat to get a tight fit around the bow. At its widest point this rail is 3.5mm thick.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/03/IMG_0203.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/03/IMG_0205.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/03/IMG_0207.jpg)
I wanted to get as tight a fit into the rabbet as I could and its turned out ok
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/03/IMG_0206.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/03/IMG_0209.jpg)
So next I need to make the planking between the rail and the whale and get it all nailed up
Cheers Mark :-))
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Wonderful Mark, simply wonderful. Oh how I wish I had half your skill.
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Hi Footski - I must be honest that at this stage in the build it just sometimes seems like a test of accuracy. All past errors come back and haunt you and boy does it ever.
I have no idea how some builders make these beautiful 4 deck ships of the line bristling with canon. How they get the ships so accurate is simply incredible.
I wish that I had the knowledge I have now when I started and thanks for the really nice comment 👍👍
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Hi Everyone and a very happy new year to you all :-)
I've now planked the gap between the whale and the moulded rail - you can never have too many clamps {-) . I also pierced the holes for the scuppers and hawses.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0214.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0213.jpg)
Next I had to mark out and cut the scuppers for the deck. These will need carving completely through but not just yet as that really is going to be a tricky job. I also marked out the nailing positions.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0216.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0217.jpg)
I've only nailed one side so far as I must be honest it's not my favourite job.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0231.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0232.jpg)
I have also had a go at making the bowsprit. It's 14.5mm on diameter and I did not have any timber this size so I had to glue 2 pieces together.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0227.jpg)
Now I don't have a lathe so I put this into my rotary table to rough out the shape. It actually worked really well and came up nicely after a quick sand down.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0228.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0230.jpg)
Then I cut the locating square into the end of it. I simply used a saw and files for this job. The bowsprit is only a stub as I never intended to have full size masts as I'm not into rigging at all.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0235.jpg)
It fits quite nicely as it travels through the breast hooks and into the bowsprit partners.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0236.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0237.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0238.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/06/IMG_0240.jpg)
So my next jobs are to finish the nailing on the starboard side and then cut through with the scuppers. They also need to be lined with pewter.
Cheers Mark
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I wish that I had the knowledge I have now when I started ....
Well, the next one should be a piece of cake then! ;)
Marvellous work as always Mark, a continuing pleasure to follow along.
Greg
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Workmanship of the highest quality as usual...
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Hi Greg and Footski
Thanks for the nice comments lads :-))
If only it did get easier {-) I've started cutting and lining the scuppers. My goodness what have I started - pictures to follow soon
Mark
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Hi there Mark - Happy New Year to you and yours mate.
Once again I've had to backtrack in order to catch up with your build - roughly mid October :o
Very pleased to see what you've been achieving and it all looks superb.
Looking forward to seeing how you tackle those scuppers!
Regards,
Ray.
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Hi Mark Like Ray I've just been catching up on your build.. ! I'm speechless mate, all I can say is any model you build after this one you will find so easy :-))
Joe.
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Ray - Joe great to hear from you both and I hope that you had a great Xmas :-)) Its coming along but still a very long way to go.
The scuppers - all I can say is that you need to be brave cutting the holes out through the hull. Its So easy to mess up what you have already built
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/IMG_0242.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/IMG_0247.jpg)
I made some pewter tubes - easy to make and very difficult to actually fit
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/IMG_0246.jpg)
Roughed them out to size to save too much sanding
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/IMG_0244.jpg)
And then glued them all in (8) using epoxy resin
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/IMG_0248.jpg)
Next was to make the inside and outside plates that are different sizes and fit them too.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/IMG_0251.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/IMG_0252.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/IMG_0250.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/IMG_0249.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/IMG_0253.jpg)
And I still haven't nailed the starboard side as I keep on putting it off but that will be my next job {-)
Thanks for the nice comments - Mark
-
Hi Everyone
I've now completed (at last) the nailing and scuppers on the starboard side of the ship. So my next parts to make are the hawse cushioning timbers. These pretty much reinforce the hawse holes against wear and tear. The part I need to make is "H" below and the most obvious way would be to make it out of 3 laminated pieces. I've decided though to try and make it as 1 piece as per the drawings.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/14/IMG_0263.jpg)
So firstly I drilled a small 1mm x 1mm hole in pieces of wood that marked out the centre of the radiuses.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/14/IMG_0259.jpg)
I then found the centre of the rotary table and placed a 1mm location pin in this spot.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/14/IMG_0260.jpg)
This gave me the correct location for each radius and all I had to do then was set the radius on the X axis of the mill. I would like to say that I got this right first time but I would be lying {-) So after a few small adjustments I took a cut.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/14/IMG_0261.jpg)
The nice thing is the mill needs no more adjustments I simply move the work piece along to the next hole and cut again.
Here's my first prototype that actually looks about right.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/14/IMG_0262.jpg)
So sometime this week I'll try and make the actually parts for the ship. So far so good - the reason I need to get these right is because this a prominent part on the finished ship..
Cheers Mark
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The techniques you adopt are inspirational... :-))
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Awesome Mark
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Hi Footski and Phil and thanks for you nice comments :-))
I carried on and made the parts for the ship now that I was happy with the prototype. The hawse holes are set at 20 degrees.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/16/IMG_0264.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/16/IMG_0265.jpg)
Next they were fitted to the ship and the manger scuppers were finished too. I have also given it a light coat of shellac sanding sealer on the planking just to give it a bit of protection.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/16/IMG_0269.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/16/IMG_0270.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/16/IMG_0271.jpg)
My next job is to make a fit the forecastle deck beams - I think there is a small problem with the alignment of the bowsprit and making these beams will help me solve any issues
Cheers Mark
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What a brilliant solution in making the hawse hole cushions and to be honest, I can't recall ever seeing the like at all - great work Mark :-))
Cheers,
Ray.
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Hi Ray - Yea to be honest it worked out ok. I'll probably regret to remaking them at some point due to my error with the nails but hey ho %%
Making the forecastle deck beams - I made one extra as I always damage one - and I did :embarrassed:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/17/IMG_0273.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/17/IMG_0274.jpg)
Then I cut them to length and placed them into their correct positions. What I needed to see was the crown height of each beam and how they sat on the bowsprit partners.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/17/IMG_0275.jpg)
I'm glad to say that I'm on the money with this one as each beam sat between 1.7mm and 1.4mm to high which gives me the depth of the dovetail joint into the deck clamps. They also sit really nicely on the partners too.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/17/IMG_0277.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/17/IMG_0276.jpg)
So my next job is to make the deck shelf and get the dovetails all cut in and correct.
Cheers Mark :-))
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Hi All
More done on the beams - I made the beam shelves which reinforce the deck clamps and cut the dovetails in the beams.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/20/IMG_0279.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/20/IMG_0284.jpg)
Next was to cut the remaining notches in the beams and also make the slanted hatch hole that sits above the kitchen stove.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/20/IMG_0285.jpg)
Then fit a fettle the beams to the correct overall height and also get good locations into the bowsprit partners.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/20/IMG_0282.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/20/IMG_0283.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/20/IMG_0281.jpg)
Next I'm going to make the waterway for this deck which is going to be a challenge. I then want to shake the build up a bit and get some details in such as the office, stove and windlass.
Cheers Mark :-))
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Hi All
Some more progress and this time its the forecastle deck waterways.
Here are a couple of pictures of me just trying to get a good fit with these parts onto the full and deck beams. This is a bit tricky as the angle to the hull is changing throughout its length. I've also learnt to leave plenty of extra wood on for shaping later.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/27/IMG_0289.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/27/IMG_0290.jpg)
And after much messing around here is the final piece which as you can see changes in thickness, angle and profile.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/27/IMG_0292.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/27/IMG_0293.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/27/IMG_0294.jpg)
Here are all of the parts just dry assembled which have proven to me that all is correct now in this area of the ship.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/27/IMG_0295.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/27/IMG_0296.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/27/IMG_0299.jpg)
So I can now put these parts away for the time being and get on with some more of the detailed parts. Next up will be the windlass, small office, ships stove and some hatches.
Cheers Mark :-))
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I love that last photo. I can almost imagine being stood on those beams, working on the ship... superb. Looking forward to all the bits and pieces. I remember enjoying making all those as it let me forget about the hull for a while. :-)) :-)) :-))
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I love that last photo. I can almost imagine being stood on those beams, working on the ship... superb. Looking forward to all the bits and pieces. I remember enjoying making all those as it let me forget about the hull for a while. :-)) :-)) :-))
You know I thought exactly the same I was really happy with that photo. It also brought home to me what little protection the sailors had - they must have been such a tough bunch of people.
-
Okay - The windlass - what a lovely piece of the ship this is :-))
So first of all I had to have a play with my rotary table to work out the indexing and this piece can be seen on the mill slide. Once sorted I milled a hexagonal piece which again is made of 2 bits glued together as it's just over 18mm in diameter.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0303.jpg)
So looking at the drawings the taper of the windlass is 3 degrees and the pawl cut outs are set at 12 degrees back from the hexagonal facets.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0306.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0304.jpg)
I set the mill to cut the windlass taper and also roughed out the pawl cutouts.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0307.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0308.jpg)
I then revisited the pawl cuts and made them the correct size and also drilled the lever holes and cut the windlass bearings.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0310.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0311.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0312.jpg)
Now the problems begin as I cannot simply spin the part in the chuck as I could not grip the tapered surface. I overcame this by making tapered inserts which I glued in place with PVA knowing that I can remove them later with IPA.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0313.jpg)
I then repeated the processes on the other end of the windlass.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0314.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0315.jpg)
Next was to make all of the round holes square but I forgot to take any pictures - sorry :embarrassed:
So finally I made the iron end rings out of brass and then chemically blackened them.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0317.jpg)
The final result which I think is really nice :-))
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0318.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0320.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/03/IMG_0319.jpg)
So next I have to make the windlass supports
Cheers Mark :-))
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Ahah....now I know where that olde saying comes from Mark.......
'Ya canno fit a squart peg in ya rounde a hol' O0
Looking forward to seeing the rounde drm in the stocks
Derek
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Ahah....now I know where that olde saying comes from Mark.......
'Ya canno fit a squart peg in ya rounde a hol' O0
Looking forward to seeing the rounde drm in the stocks
Derek
Hi Derek I never thought of that but I think you may be right :-)) Would you believe that actually making the holes square and as uniform as possible was by far the hardest thing to do on this part. You can't machine square holes it's got to be done by hand and eye. I'll get the stocks built as soon as I can :-)
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Hi All
Some more done on the windlass - This time I've made the Carrick piece (the larger part) and the cheek. Firstly though I wanted to make the large bolts that run all the way through them. To do this I had to drill a 0.68mm hole in a 1.5mm brass rod. The picture below looks like I'm drilling a 6mm hole through a 10mm bar {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/10/IMG_0322.jpg)
A bit of perspective
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/10/IMG_0323.jpg)
The bolts were finished with a tapered 0.8mm rod and then chemically blackened.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/10/IMG_0325.jpg)
I didn't take any pictures of the making of the Carrick piece or the cheek as its pretty straight forward but I did of the drilling for the bolts. I lightly glued the 2 parts together and drilled straight through in one go. The parts were separated later with IPA.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/10/IMG_0324.jpg)
The finished parts with the bolts in place.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/10/IMG_0326.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/10/IMG_0327.jpg)
Finally a few shots of the parts in place on the hull. Nothing is glued in yet including the beams so it's just a simple dry fit.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/10/IMG_0327.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/10/IMG_0329.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/10/IMG_0330.jpg)
So thats it for a couple of weeks as I've got to have a quick surgery (nothing major) but I've been told that it will restrict my lifting and movement for a while. So as soon as I can I'll be back at it.
Cheers Mark :-)
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Don't leave us for too long, we will be getting withdrawal symptoms %) %) %)
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Don't leave us for too long, we will be getting withdrawal symptoms %) %) %)
Hi Footski it's something I've been putting off for far too long. I saw the picture of your build of Victory - wow - Now if I could do that I would be very happy; what a beautiful ship it must have taken you so many hours. I can see why it was an award winning build as it it is simply perfection :-))
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Mark,
Thank you for your kind words. The model took three years to complete, using many photos I took of the real ship, Following a special visit which allowed me access to many places the public could not get to at the time. Simply rigging her took just over a year.
Whilst I strived for the model to be as accurate as possible, paint hides a multitude of sins and the skill level is very low compared to your workmanship.
Come back soon.
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Ok last one from me %% I couldn't resist making the windlass handle. It's a simple square to round which is also tapered. I don't have a lathe so I had to wing it but I'm happy with the result. I also like the way I can put it in any of the holes in the windlass.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/11/IMG_0331.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/11/IMG_0332.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/11/IMG_0333.jpg)
Sorry for the poor picture quality - Mark :-))
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Mark......
Good luck with your 'minor surgery'.........the Le Rochefort will be waiting for your return O0
regards Derek
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Thanks Derek - I'll be in and out in a day but they have said I can't lift anything for about a week and then need 3 weeks of rest after that................so once I can lift things I'll have loads of time to get on with her. As they say every cloud has a silver lining :-))
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Hi All
Well I've been repaired but I just have to take it easy for a few weeks - but that doesn't mean that I can't build my ship %%
So onto the ships stove and later on the small office. Firstly both of these parts require a bit of deck underneath them so I made the deck as it should have been had I have completely planked it. The stove also gets some sheet metal to stand on.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0334.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0335.jpg)
The stove starts as a simple box with 4 legs
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0336.jpg)
Which then gets lined with bricks which I bought online at 1/24th scale.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0338.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0339.jpg)
The bricks are held in place with an iron cage - I cut the brass strips on the table saw the dimensions being 0.25mm x 1.2mm. I then made a plug to help build and solder the cage together.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0340.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0341.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0342.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0343.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0344.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0345.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0346.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0347.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0348.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0349.jpg)
And to finish the stove the brass parts were chemically blackened; the lower bricks were installed; the lifting rings made; the nails inserted and my favourite bit the grill bars which are imbedded into the bricks. If you can work out how I did this let me know ;)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0351.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0352.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0353.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/23/IMG_0355.jpg)
I've still to make the pieces that help lock it in place on the deck but at least I'm moving forward again!
Cheers Mark
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Lovely work.
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WoW (young people speak according to my granddaughters) great work Mark, and no I can't figure how you did it....more looking and better glasses.... {-) {-)
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Hi Dougal and Phil :-)) Thanks for the nice comments lads - to put the bars in I simply drilled straight through from the side you cannot see. I then filled the holes with tree nails so the only trickery was not being quite honest with my photos {-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/24/IMG_0360.jpg)
I've now made the feet for the stove so its completely finished now.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/24/IMG_0356.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/24/IMG_0357.jpg)
I've also made the hatch for the main deck - I really like making these as the design of them just lets them simply lock together and are so strong.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/24/IMG_0358.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/24/IMG_0359.jpg)
Cheers Mark
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Ok some more done this time it's the small office/cupboard. It's a very simple design with brass hinges and lock. It's easy to make but tricky to get a good fit due to the many angles that come together.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/28/IMG_0361.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/28/IMG_0362.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/28/IMG_0363.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/28/IMG_0365.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/28/IMG_0364.jpg)
So now I need to bring all of these parts together and also complete some of the details that I've missed
Mark
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Hi All
Before putting all of the parts permanently on the ship I first just had to complete some nailing that I had missed and also make the decorative rail that covers the last beam.
Clamping the rail in place :-)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/IMG_0366.jpg)
Then it was just a case of fit everything and have a good tidy up. I think its all turned out ok
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/IMG_0367.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/IMG_0368.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/IMG_0369.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/IMG_0370.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/IMG_0372.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/IMG_0371.jpg)
So next I think its about time I finished off the planking of the hull
Cheers Mark
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Wow.......coming together superbly... :-)) :-))
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Hi Mark. Its amazing the detail you have put into this beautiful model , hopefully she will take centre of pride in a Museum when finished, O0 cheers Brian.
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Thanks Brian :-)) This is going to sit on a shelf in my workshop :-)
I've started working out the planking for the starboard side only. First is the garboard plank which is the first plank off of the keel. It's not flat in profile it is curved which presented a challenge but it went ok.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/07/IMG_0373.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/07/IMG_0374.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/07/IMG_0375.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/07/IMG_0376.jpg)
Next was the long job of lining out the planking - Now I know that not everyone does this but I always think that if I can draw it I can make it. I wanted the planking to be representative of the drawings so I spent the best part of 3 days doing this. I now know where every plank will go and its size. I have one stealer plank at the stern which is straight off of the garboard plank and one drop plank towards the bow.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/07/IMG_0379.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/07/IMG_0380.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/07/IMG_0381.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/07/IMG_0392.jpg)
So now its time to cut some planks which vary in thickness and get on with the job at hand
Cheers Mark
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Wow, so far that is the best planking I have ever seen on a model. Your skill is amazing... :-)) :-))
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Wow, so far that is the best planking I have ever seen on a model. Your skill is amazing... :-)) :-))
Hi mate - I really hope that the wood looks as good as the tape {-) If it does I'm onto a winner!!
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Don't worry Mark, we have faith in you :-)) beautiful work....
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Thanks for the votes of encouragement - I am starting to make some progress but it's very slow. I am having difficulties getting the planks to bend around the stern and into the rabbet tightly. The planks are 3.2mm thick and 10mm wide and I have been experimenting how to do this so that it looks good. I've split more planks in this area than I can remember {-)
I think I've finally got a solution now and hopefully have some more pictures up soon.
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Hi Mark, I presume you have tried steaming ,well more like boiling the plank ,the only draw back with that method could be discoloration of the plank ????,cheers :-))
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Hi Brian - yes mate I've tried steaming, boiling, microwaving, hot air and also raising the moisture content by soaking for 24 hours. The bend where the planks wrap around the transom up to the wing transom is extremely tight and also compounds at the same time. So the only way I could find of making the wood do this was to laminate the plank into two thinner strips. This then brings on the additional problem of making them exactly the same when actually the precise shape isn't known until they fit. I'm on a bit of a learning curve but it's getting better and easier by the day :-)) :-)) . Its testing but fun too!
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Hi Mark, sounds like you are on the right track there, have had to laminate the ribs in 2 pieces at times in the hollow heal when they have had a sharp curve ( and still steam) a friend of mine will use up to 5 lamination's on the ribs at times to skirt around the steaming of them. cheers. :-)) .