Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: 785boats on December 25, 2020, 09:19:51 am
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Hi there.
Although I'm new to this forum, I have been building boats for a while.
I had been looking around for a different type of project for my next build.Well here's the most different boat that I have ever seen. Especially for a warship. So of course, even though I have other unfinished models lying around, I had to make a start on this one. A round Russian gunship from 1873, the Novgorod.
Just thought I'd share the build here: https://www.google.com/search?q=russ...LqeBuQYKiTshLM ( https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3719411-Russian-Novgorod (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3719411-Russian-Novgorod) )
What really sparked my interest was a little 1:200 scale kit I saw on ebay. only 150mm ( 6" ) in diameter, but complete with motors props & drive shafts.I bought the kit with the intent to use it, along with photos & line drawings on the web, to scale up some plans to 1:48 scale which ends up being 640mm in diameter. The kit arrived the other day so I've taken some measurements and started work on it. The lazer etched wooden decking and the etched brass railings are exquisite.
I made a start on it a couple of nights ago. I cut a disk for the bottom of the hull from some old scrap 1/16" ply veneer.Then strengthened it with some 1/4" sq bass wood. When the hull is all planked, I'll add another disk on top to both strengthen it and to have a base to mount all the gear on to. I've cut out a template for the ribs. Just need to make the other 15 of them now.
I notched them out for some 1/8"sq stringers to run around the hull and then I'll just do some vertical planking over them with some 1/16" ply. Three stringers on the curve and one around the top where the deck will be fitted. This is going to be the strangest boat I've ever built. It won't be a quick build but it will be interesting.
Then some 1.5mm bass wood was used for stringers around the hull. Two layers laminated to make them 3mm thick. I couldn't find any 1/8"sq bass or spruce at the model shop.
All held together with CA glue.
Now it's time to start cutting the vertical planks
But I'm off to Tasmania tomorrow to spend some time with my family, so I won't get anything done for a while.
Cheers.
Paul.
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Nice! :-))
Are the ribs cut out by hand?
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Hi Martin.
I have an old Ryobi 16" scroll saw for that type of thing. And a little mini belt sander for the final trimming.
https://www.banggood.com/350W-4000-9000RPM-Electric-Adjustable-Speed-Mini-Belt-Sander-Polishing-Grinding-Machine-Antiskid-Abrasive-Belts-Grinder-p-1546927.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts&cur_warehouse=CN&ID=514816
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That is a super project and one that is challenging to make water tight and ballast properly as the hull form is ever so bouyant.
Being derived from the principle of a coastal defence monitor it has very low freeboard.
It will 'wow' all those who see the model sail though, and you can have fun learning how to control it given its directional randomness :D
I have one of about the same size that I started to restore but havn't got much further with it in the last two years.
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I love this, and it really is different, keep up the fine work, I will be following with interest
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Hi ballastanksian.
It's good to see that there are other models out there. No doubt I will need some guidance here & there. So I hope you can help.
As the hull took shape on the board, l thought to myself that l should have reduced the draught a fair bit to make it easier to ballast down to the waterline. Oh well, l've got plenty of lead blocks that l use in some of my bigger boats.
I plan to make the whole deck removable, but l'm still trying to figure out how to seal it against the wash that will come over the sides, bow, stern etc. I'd be interested to know how you kept the water out.
As for control. I just intend to do what the full size ship did.
I will control each bank of 3 motors with a separate esc & operate them like tank steering with a 4channel tx.
We'll see how that works out.
I Would love to see some pics of your model. Feel free to post them on this thread if you want. Or is there a link you can post to a site with them on it?
Cheers.
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I love this, and it really is different, keep up the fine work, I will be following with interest
Hi Phil.
It would be nice to fit some little steam engines in there for you steam guys and authenticity, but that is way beyond my capabilities. :-)
It will be electric motors for me.
Cheers.
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I started a topic a couple of years back that showed progress up to March 2019 ish. The original deck was full diameter which I thought worrisome and so cut a ring from the edge and stuck it to the hull.
The plan was/is to use silicone tube as a gasket, and some form of retainers to hold the deck down onto the gasket creating a water tight seal. Folk on here suggested a grease seal, and I was going to try some silicone grease as well to make sure the seal was as good as possible. I found some drawings of the krupp guns and mounts and from these turned masters of the breech and barrel. I have the mould to hand if you want a resin set for a few quid? The mounts are Vavasseur.
I did start adding lead ballast under the hull but the fibreglass was too coarse and so it looks rubbish. It will need some serious sanding at the very least :((
The topic is in the Warships section. I have a big small scale project that I want to complete first and then will get dabbling with the big boats in the future.
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Thanks for the info.
I read through your thread, and have filed away a few ideas in the grey matter for when the time comes..
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I started a topic a couple of years back that showed progress up to March 2019 ish. The original deck was full diameter which I thought worrisome and so cut a ring from the edge and stuck it to the hull.
The topic is in the Warships section. I have a big small scale project that I want to complete first and then will get dabbling with the big boats in the future.
FYI: https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,57153.msg594552.html#msg594552
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Thanks Martin.
Yes, that's the thread l read through.
I had already planned on leaving a ring around the edge.
Now l think l'll add a sort of a gutter around it and a ring around the edge of the deck that fits down into it, and use silicone to make a gasket as described in the thread
That should do the trick.
Cheers.
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I didn't realise, she had a wooden hull!
Wikipeadia:
The ship had a waterline belt of wrought iron that completely covered the hull and extended from 18 inches (457 mm) above the waterline to 4 feet 6 inches (1.4 m) below it. The armour was configured in two strakes, each 3 feet (0.9 m) high. The upper plates were 9 inches (229 mm) thick and the lower ones 7 inches (178 mm). The armour was backed by 9 inches of teak reinforced by interlocking channel irons. The navy considered this backing to be the equivalent of another 2 inches (51 mm) of armour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Novgorod#Construction_and_career
Might build one.... one day....
Found a hull already! - https://catalog.wallaceevents.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=27&key=2320
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Found a hull already! - https://catalog.wallaceevents.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=27&key=2320
Or an up turned Hanging basket ?.
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I didn't realise, she had a wooden hull!
Wikipeadia:
The ship had a waterline belt of wrought iron that completely covered the hull and extended from 18 inches (457 mm) above the waterline to 4 feet 6 inches (1.4 m) below it. The armour was configured in two strakes, each 3 feet (0.9 m) high. The upper plates were 9 inches (229 mm) thick and the lower ones 7 inches (178 mm). The armour was backed by 9 inches of teak reinforced by interlocking channel irons. The navy considered this backing to be the equivalent of another 2 inches (51 mm) of armour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Novgorod#Construction_and_career (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Novgorod#Construction_and_career)
Might build one.... one day....
Found a hull already! - https://catalog.wallaceevents.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=27&key=2320 (https://catalog.wallaceevents.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=27&key=2320)
Certainly some heavy plating. A lot of weight there.
I've been thinking about adding lead sheeting all around the inside of the hull & on the floor, to add some weight, so l won't need to add so much ballast when l launch it.
This is one hull that won't mind being built heavy.
That bowl looks like a good candidate for the hull.
.
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I didn't realise, she had a wooden hull!
Wikipeadia:
The ship had a waterline belt of wrought iron that completely covered the hull and extended from 18 inches (457 mm) above the waterline to 4 feet 6 inches (1.4 m) below it. The armour was configured in two strakes, each 3 feet (0.9 m) high. The upper plates were 9 inches (229 mm) thick and the lower ones 7 inches (178 mm). The armour was backed by 9 inches of teak reinforced by interlocking channel irons. The navy considered this backing to be the equivalent of another 2 inches (51 mm) of armour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Novgorod#Construction_and_career (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Novgorod#Construction_and_career)
The same principle as HMS Warrior, backing with teak makes the armour stronger but with less weight than thicker iron. The armour plate was wrought iron not steel so was much weaker than later steel armour. The wikipedia article didn't make clear if the inner hull was iron like the Warrior.
Jim
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A slight correction here if I may - the teak backing actually acted as a shock absorber and mitigated fragments of the armor flying off, so not so much added strength but to minimize fragmentation damage. This process was continued certainly through WW1 and pretty sure WW2 as well on heavy armor. Thin armor was a different structure and dis not have the teak backing.
I'm looking forwards to progress on this interesting model. Interesting hull ideas though - and one more what about a large round wooden bowl! I think you will probably just have to plank it but I have no idea how you do a round hull - sounds fun!
Cheers
Geoff
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I recall reading that the hull framework was iron like Warrior with armour backed by teak.
I turned my original Novgorod hull from a big disk of MDF at college on the slowest speed as the lathe rocked otherwise :embarrassed:
A technician suggested I put it up a notch but after trying one speed up, it was too dangerous.
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A fare number of Bubbleheads( sub guys) make hatch/compartment gaskets using silicon. The silicon is spread onto the
fixed surface and the "hatch" ,which has been sealed smooth, is well coated with wax or tightly wrapped in plastic wrap, and set into position. It is weighted down or held down with the fixing devices( screws) until the silicon is well set. The hatch is remove, the plastic removed and the hatch now has a custom gasket.
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Sorry for the lack of replies on my part, but l am on holidays down in Tasmania at the moment. Busy days & nights.
It will be another week before l can do any more work on the hull too.
Some great info there guys. Thanks for that.
Akira.
That is the method l intend to use for the seal.
Cheers.
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Well I've made it back home on Friday night from my holiday down to Tasmania. It was great to see the family again.
So yesterday I cut and glued a few planks onto the framework.
They were cut to 15mm at one end and 13mm at the other. Then they needed to be sanded a bit narrower at the smaller end leaving a bowed edge, from about the center of the planks, so that the sides married to each other as they curved around the 90 degree bend.
I also cut them such that the grain of the outside layers of the ply was across the plank, to make them easier to bend around the framework with a lot less tension on them.
I just used thick CA glue to fix them in place. Still picking the dried glue off my finger tips. :D
To try and make sure that the rim stayed circular, I did two panels opposite each other first. Then a pair at 90 degrees to those two. Then repeated the process for the next 4 panels.
It worked because the rim is still circular.
Here are a few pics.
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Looking good! :-))
What wood are you using?
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Thanks Martin.
The wood is 1/16" birch aircraft ply.
I have plenty left over from other projects. Mainly the 1/8 scale hydroplanes that I build.
Cheers.
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Nice work!
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Thanks for the compliment ballastanksian.
I finished the planking over the last few evenings. Just a bit of filling and a layer of fiberglass needed to finish it off.
The drive shafts, props, & the motors/gearboxes have arrived too.
The props were the closest I could find that looked like the original shape. But man they need some serious balancing. Even spinning the shaft in my hand, with a quick twist of the shaft, sets up some serious wobble
The motor/gearboxes will only be spinning at around 340 rpm but 6 of them all vibrating at once won't be good.
The motors.
https://www.banggood.com/Chihai-DC-7_4V-340rpm-550rpm-Reduction-Motor-DC-Geared-Motor-p-1552802.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN&ID=513819 (https://www.banggood.com/Chihai-DC-7_4V-340rpm-550rpm-Reduction-Motor-DC-Geared-Motor-p-1552802.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN&ID=513819)
The props.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4mm-Shaft-4-Blades-Metal-Propeller-Prop-44mm-55mm-60mm-for-Scale-RC-Boat-Marine/153113660401?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=452958879776&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4mm-Shaft-4-Blades-Metal-Propeller-Prop-44mm-55mm-60mm-for-Scale-RC-Boat-Marine/153113660401?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=452958879776&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649)
The shafts.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4mm-Drive-Shaft-Sleeve-4-Blade-Propeller-Joint-Assemble-Kit-for-RC-Boat-Marine/152756758984?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=452456787562&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648 (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4mm-Drive-Shaft-Sleeve-4-Blade-Propeller-Joint-Assemble-Kit-for-RC-Boat-Marine/152756758984?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=452456787562&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648)
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Those motors seem to be reminded of this for some reason :} ...... https://youtu.be/Rb5g-6uBw-A?t=558
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I can see why Martin. Interesting video.
Cheers.
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I am going to sound a right know it all here so excuse me for it. The inner two props were three bladed so they did not foul the sea bed or dry dock when being worked on. Other than that, the flat edged blades look great and quite realistic without going to extremes of detail with rivets etc.
How did you balance the props?
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Hi ballastanksian.
I've been searching for images with the inner two props as three blade props. But all I can find is pictures & drawings with all props having 4 blades.
But I do note that the props reduce in size from the outside ones to the inner ones in some drawings. But in the photo below, they are all the same size.
I know the boat went through a few developement changes over some years. But I can't find any different images of the props. Would love to see some if you have any.
I would probably still go with the 4 blades because I have them now, but would still love to see the different setup.
I haven't balanced the props yet, but I will do it the same way that I do all my race props. Using a balancer and some files and emery paper.
Just take some weight off the heavy blades with the files on the convex side, and then use varying grits of emery down to # 400. Important when the prop is spinning at over 30,000rpm.
Here's the balancer. I also do EDF blades too. Over 47,000 on the one in my Spirit of Australia model.
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I seem to recall reading somewhere that with the real ship they had controllability issues so tried various prop sizes which may explain the differences between plans and pictures.
Cheers
Geoff
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My apologies, yes I think there were upgrades and replacements through her life so differing bladed props may have been short lived.
It's your model, go with what you are happy with :-)) :-)
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This is really unusual ship, will be very interested in seeing how it sails when you get to that point.
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One seen at a show.....
(https://i.ibb.co/NT1ZHtG/BrOUND15.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XYySvjG)
(https://i.ibb.co/ySq2MH3/BrOUND14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k1XZrNd)
(https://i.ibb.co/h1pN1Qd/BrOUND13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkmPk05)
(https://i.ibb.co/YkCjmGJ/BrOUND12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bB0dTnY)
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(https://i.ibb.co/WBngs4n/BrOUND11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3S1Bk91)
(https://i.ibb.co/2c2cDW7/BrOUND10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gt1t5mM)
(https://i.ibb.co/589590s/BrOUND08.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wy3c3hB)
(https://i.ibb.co/5TVNWzN/BrOUND07.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XXThZdh)
(https://i.ibb.co/xzpmYFm/BrOUND06.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zPy8F68)
(https://i.ibb.co/crr3vCh/BrOUND05.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Jsstdyj)
(https://i.ibb.co/JdtFh8k/BrOUND03.jpg) (https://ibb.co/594x7Cc)
(https://i.ibb.co/YP1XQkw/BrOUND04.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JmGqt7g)
(https://i.ibb.co/mbK5hcn/BrOUND02.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PFyG162)
(https://i.ibb.co/cybHQhw/BrOUND01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Sg5KtQ)
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Nice one Martin.
I like the chains for the steering.
Another different deck layout. Must be an early version of the ship.
Cheers.
Paul.
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There's a contemporary report on the Russian cyclids included in a couple of 1876 issues of The Engineer magazine. I've downloaded them but can't post on here because the file is about 25 Mb so if anyone wants a copy let me have an e-mail address via pm.
Tony
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There's a contemporary report on the Russian cyclids included in a couple of 1876 issues of The Engineer magazine. I've downloaded them but can't post on here because the file is about 25 Mb so if anyone wants a copy let me have an e-mail address via pm.
Tony
If you would like to email them to me, I'll find a way of uploading them.
martin@modelboatmayhem.co.uk
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Pic from1876
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There's a contemporary report on the Russian cyclids included in a couple of 1876 issues of The Engineer magazine. I've downloaded them but can't post on here because the file is about 25 Mb so if anyone wants a copy let me have an e-mail address via pm.
Tony
(https://i.ibb.co/QFr2K27/NOVGOROD-2-page-018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QFr2K27) (https://i.ibb.co/zxnkzzK/NOVGOROD-2-page-016.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zxnkzzK) (https://i.ibb.co/pJPVWp8/NOVGOROD-2-page-017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pJPVWp8) (https://i.ibb.co/hy2YKyz/NOVGOROD-2-page-015.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hy2YKyz) (https://i.ibb.co/gDfNYLs/NOVGOROD-2-page-014.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gDfNYLs) (https://i.ibb.co/v4nG24w/NOVGOROD-2-page-013.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v4nG24w) (https://i.ibb.co/C0QsdKL/NOVGOROD-2-page-012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C0QsdKL) (https://i.ibb.co/4Fm6g3R/NOVGOROD-2-page-010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Fm6g3R) (https://i.ibb.co/xHXbVcb/NOVGOROD-2-page-011.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xHXbVcb) (https://i.ibb.co/TwjDLr8/NOVGOROD-2-page-009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TwjDLr8) (https://i.ibb.co/Y3n1jBc/NOVGOROD-2-page-007.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y3n1jBc) (https://i.ibb.co/kH1x402/NOVGOROD-2-page-008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kH1x402) (https://i.ibb.co/WKzJtZv/NOVGOROD-2-page-006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WKzJtZv) (https://i.ibb.co/ccMdHN6/NOVGOROD-2-page-004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ccMdHN6) (https://i.ibb.co/Ln9W3Hv/NOVGOROD-2-page-005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ln9W3Hv) (https://i.ibb.co/ykGBL2F/NOVGOROD-2-page-002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ykGBL2F) (https://i.ibb.co/JnGS0bG/NOVGOROD-2-page-003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JnGS0bG) (https://i.ibb.co/tBRcG2p/NOVGOROD-2-page-001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tBRcG2p)
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(https://i.ibb.co/QXLptGm/NOVGOROD-1-page-018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QXLptGm) (https://i.ibb.co/FDF7cNk/NOVGOROD-1-page-016.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FDF7cNk) (https://i.ibb.co/LPV7LcQ/NOVGOROD-1-page-017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LPV7LcQ) (https://i.ibb.co/LZLL5MX/NOVGOROD-1-page-015.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LZLL5MX) (https://i.ibb.co/28Pgwd0/NOVGOROD-1-page-014.jpg) (https://ibb.co/28Pgwd0) (https://i.ibb.co/M7LjPqd/NOVGOROD-1-page-012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M7LjPqd) (https://i.ibb.co/2tqGqvd/NOVGOROD-1-page-013.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2tqGqvd) (https://i.ibb.co/7yXjNMD/NOVGOROD-1-page-011.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7yXjNMD) (https://i.ibb.co/hBrd4HB/NOVGOROD-1-page-010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hBrd4HB) (https://i.ibb.co/R4kLZXy/NOVGOROD-1-page-008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R4kLZXy) (https://i.ibb.co/8zVH83V/NOVGOROD-1-page-009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8zVH83V) (https://i.ibb.co/H4cqHqY/NOVGOROD-1-page-006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/H4cqHqY) (https://i.ibb.co/HdLR16V/NOVGOROD-1-page-007.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HdLR16V) (https://i.ibb.co/SR9wRFs/NOVGOROD-1-page-005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SR9wRFs) (https://i.ibb.co/wd0zPNy/NOVGOROD-1-page-003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wd0zPNy) (https://i.ibb.co/KFFgs4Y/NOVGOROD-1-page-004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KFFgs4Y) (https://i.ibb.co/dMGWzc7/NOVGOROD-1-page-002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dMGWzc7) (https://i.ibb.co/xsN58L9/NOVGOROD-1-page-001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xsN58L9)
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Wow!
Some brilliant information there. I'll have to make some time to wade through all that.
Thanks Tony/Martin.
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Many thanks Martin,
The relevant pages are 75,76 and 77 from post at 5.14 ( Reply #39 ) and 93,94 and 95 from the posting at 5.05 ( Reply #38 ).
I hope you find it interesting and in context of the period!
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I found it very interesting.
I finally had some time to add the deck ring to the hull. And also spread on some filler and sand it all back.
Still a few blemishes to fill and then I can add the epoxy glass work. Hopefully today.
Cheers.
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A successfull mornings work today I think.
I decided to mock up the deck & the barbette for the guns.
Firstly I decided on the curvature of the deck from various drawings & photos. Couldn't find any exact measurements so, I go by the caveat that if it looks right, it is right.
The diameter of the barbett is listed in the specs of the ship so that was easy to scale out to the 1:48 scale that I am using.
I cut 16 deck formers to be arranged in the spider web arrangement around the barbette.
I cut a couple of discs of 3mm balsa, at 180mm diameter, for templates, And then a strip of 1/16" aircraft ply to wrap around them to form the wall.
I pre-bent the ply around a 4" post in my workshop that holds up the floor above.
No soaking, no amonia, no heat. Just the Uri Geller touch, and mind control.
I always think of the English Wheel when I do this.
So this is where I found out that the ring around the top of the hull is not exactly circular, as I had to trim the notches out on more than a few of the frames to allow the whole thing to sit down flush.
No biggie. An easy fix.
Here are the compulsory visuals. :-)
Cheers.
Paul.
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A little bit more done to the deck.
I added some cross braces of 5mm balsa to strengthen things up a bit. And to get a good curve & frame for the skin to adhere to.
Now it does look like a spiders webb
I'll lay a skin of 1/16" balsa and then plank it. I have some veneer that I can cut into strips.
I had a couple of sheets of the balsa so I bought a few more and cut some pieces ready for final fitting.
Cheers.
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Your sure your not building a flying saucer! :-) Its looking good!
Cheers
Geoff
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Thanks Geoff.
It certainly looks like a flying saucer. Bu no. Definitely a watercraft. :}
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I'm on night shift again for a few days, and I got home from work this morning and decided to put a layer of fiberglass on the hull.
I mixed up enough resin to give the underside of the deck a coat too, to seal the wood and joints.
When the hull is fully cured, I'll give it a sand and apply a finishing coat, and will give the topside of the deck a coat of resin only, to seal and make ready for the planking.
That will just leave the inside of the hull to brush on a coat to seal all the wood in there.
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Thought you might have cut triangles rather than plank one side to the other, or did you have insufficient and this layer is hidden under another layer?
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Hi there Warspite.
Triangle plating like a pie chart are shown in some images. Also rectangular plates running lengthwise from stem to stern in others.There are even some images showing planking in the piechart section arrangement too.
But the one I like is the full planking from stem to stern. It is also kow the little kit I originaly bought to use as a guide, is set out. See the first photo in my first post.
So that is the version that appeals to me the most. It also has the planking on top of the main cabin too, as do some other images. And yet there are images with planking on the deck but not on the main cabin.I'm just assuming that the planked deck is the eairlier version of the ship.
Funny thing is, that some show the two side bridges, and some don't. Different developements as the years passed I guess.
I'm also thinking that some of the images are of the Popov, which was a different (later) boat to the Novgorod.
I'm sure the planking will drive me nuts & I will probably wish I had taken your advice. Time will tell on that one.
Here's a couple of pics showing some different layouts.
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Very interesting. For the deck planking a method I use is to lay a bundle of planks on their edge in a jig just to hold them and then use black electricians tape pushed onto the edge and cut off. Pull all the planks as a block from the jig turn over and slice between each plank (I have a circular cutter like a pizza wheel). You will end up with multiple planks with a self adhesive black thin strip along one edge. The strip is black all the way through. After planking (I use resin w glue in the blue bottle) use a Stanley knife blade as a scraper to smooth the deck off to a very smooth satin finish and clear varnish accordingly.
Most important is the margin planks which are fitted first and are typically 1.5 times the width of an ordinary plank so if you joggle the planks you cut some of the margin plank away leaving it about the width of a single plank. Have a look at Invincible for an example.
Keep up the good and interesting work.
Cheers
Geoff
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I found your thread on the Invincible and had a bit of a read through it. Superb work. I don't just mean the planking, but the whole project. Certainly something to be proud of.
Luckily for me I won't need to worry about joggling at the outer edge as it is all covered up by the armour plating sections.
The lazer printed decking, in the little kit, doesn't show any joggling around the barbette or main cabin either.
Admittedly, that may not be a true representation of the original ship, but I can't find any images of those areas of decking to either confirm or deny.
One question that you, or any other member here, may be able to answer is, what was the maximum lengt of 8" planks that ship builders used in those days.
I ask, because some of the planks scale out to around 18 meters long on the little kits planking sheet. That makes them 382mm on my 1:48 scale model.
Was that done in those days, or should I make them shorter?
Cheers.
Paul.
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Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, but a 18 meter plank is around 60 feet. Not only would one be hard pressed to find lumber of that length, but working with it would be a bit inconvenient. i would suspect lengths of between 12-20 feet, or say 3.5 -6 meters. Most engraved decks on kits seem to be quite flawed when it comes to plank dimensions.BUT, I have been wrong before.....
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Thanks Akira.
Those were my thoughts too. But I had to ask the question when I saw those long planks on the kits deck.
My original thinking was for 4 meter lengths laid down in a 4 butt pattern.
Not sure how accurate that is for Russian ships of this period, but it is a pleasing pattern to my eye.
Maybe longer lengths were used, like the 6 meters you mentioned. I don't know.
Cheers.
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Finished the fiberglassing and coats of resin on both the hull and deck.
And the deck has been trimmed and sanded to fit the hull.
Spent a lazy Sunday today building up the main cabin and cutting some 5mm wide strips from some veneer I had lying around, for the decks.
The basic frame was made from some 5mm balsa and the sides are from 1/16" aircraft ply. The top will be ply too, but that can wait until tomorrow.
I need some food and it's time to open a nice bottle of Cabernet Merlot.
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Hey Paul,
Yes, the Popovs did get upgraded from time to time, and a set of flying bridges were added later in Novgorod's career along with light guns and Gatlings/Nordenfeldts on the ends of the Bridges. The rudder was also decommissioned (but retained for water flow IIRC) and steered by controlling the engine revolutions as the rudder was useless on such a bluff hull shape, as was found in WW1 with the early Big Gun monitors that had directional control problems.
Build her how you want to Paul, and enjoy the experience, followed by the rollercoaster ride of sailing her!!!
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Thanks mate. That's what I'll do.
The main cabin size and layout was measured off the pics below. That is the layout I am going to use. Deck planked. And the two fly bridges included.But I will also plank the deck of the main cabin as in the second picture.
Also the rear bridge with the open ships wheel on top. I like the look of that version.
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When they changed the steering system on Admiral Popov they changed the inner screws from 4 blade to large 3 blade ones. This improved the steerability BUT they had to park the inner ones with two blades downward and the third blade vertically upwards so the screw did not ground in shallow water!
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Oh, the ninteenth century!
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When they changed the steering system on Admiral Popov they changed the inner screws from 4 blade to large 3 blade ones. This improved the steerability BUT they had to park the inner ones with two blades downward and the third blade vertically upwards so the screw did not ground in shallow water!
Thanks John.
That confirms what ballastanksian said some posts ago. I've been looking for images with the three blade props but can't find any as yet.
But the Popov was a different ship to the Novgorov. Maybe they didn't do that on the Novgorov.
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The info was in the Graces Guide pages and the implication was that both Popov and Novgorod would be the same.Can't find any photographic evidence for either but..............?
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Thanks Tony.
I don't know why I referred to you as John in my last post, Sorry about that.
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So here's the question for the day.
How do I get some information or pictures/drawings of those two steam boats on the Novgorod or Popov.
I don't know if they are a Picket, a Pinace, a Captains boat, a life boat, or what?
I've searched the 'wide wide world of web' to the best of my abilities, but can't find anything.
That's not saying much, because my abilities on this compootery thing aren't very good.
Any help in finding something would be greatly appreciated.
At 1:48 scale they work out to be about 176mm long.
Cheers.
Paul.
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Roughly the right size and period.
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I thought I may have had something for you in a book called: Imperial Russian Navy 1890 - 1916 but nothing helpful. However maybe widen your search as such boats did not typically change much in decades. For example a RN steam launch from 1890's is virtually identical to Hood 1939. Its unlikely they were specifically designed for a particular ship.
This may allow you to widen your search.
Good luck
Geoff
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Thanks guys.
Tony.
Thanks for the drawing. with that and the photosof other models, I should be able to replicate a reasonable facimilie.
Although teo of them will probably take longer than the main ship itself.
Geoff.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll do some more hunting to add the other information and pictures.
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Well, as we all know, a piece of ply will not bend in both directions. So I decided to cover the roof of the main cabin with pieces of 1/16" ply like the main deck.
The center of the roof ended up a bit flat so I applied a couple of layers of Auto body blade putty and sanded it to conform with both curves. It's now ready for planking.
I wanted to glue in a floor on top of the framework to mount the motors, shafts, servos, ESC's etc. But I felt the beed to add some weight under the floor first.
So I bought a roll of lead flashing and cut some pizza triangles to fit in between the stringers.
I managed to get 3 pieces siliconed into each section. The total weight of the lead is just on 5 pounds. Not any where near enough I know, but it's a start.
So then I cut a disc of 1/8" ply and cut out some notches for the frames to come through.
Here's some pics.
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Be careful you don't leave it lying around as your other half may add some topping and put it in the oven! :-)
Coming along nicely. I would counsel you don't glue the floor in but use screws as this will allow you to adjust the ballast if the need arrives.
Nice work
Cheers
Geoff
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Mmmm! A lead based marinara pizza with extra anchovies. Sounds delicious.
Too late on the fixing of the floor though Geoff. It's all glued down.
There will be no need to remove any of that ballast, as I think we will need about 10 pounds more to sink it down to the waterline.
I'll make up some lead blocks to spread around in the hull during the sea trials to balance it all up.
We have an inter club sail, sale, & swap meet today at our club, so I might take it along & drop it in the water to see how much ballast it needs.
Cheers.
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Just returned home from the club.
I placed the hull in the water and it only went down about 25mm.
After adding an extra 22 pounds of lead on top of the 5 pounds already in there, it was still riding about 10mm high.
So when the rest of the boat is built, and all the drive gear & batteries etc are added, it should be pretty close.
A few pics from the day.
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Wonderful photos, thanks for posting them.
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Oh for those facilities. Not to mention the weather :-)) Lovely photos.
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I'm glad you like the photos.
We are blessed with the facilities at the Brisbane Entertainment Center. They just recently rebuilt the dock & shelter for us. Some of the timbers in the old one were getting past their use by date.
And the weather? Well it's model boat sailing weather nearly all year round, here in sunny Queensland.
But we do get the sudden rains storm that puts the shelter to good use.
Here's our clubs website if you want a better look of how we do things down here in the colonies.
http://triple-s.org.au/
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I am impressed that it will only take 22pounds of lead given the all buoyancy hull shape. The fitting of the lead under the floor is clever, I have lots of balsa blocking to remove from mine to provide more space for lead, but the weight is useful reference.
Most of the references in this topic above show two cutters/dinghies and two Steam Pinnaces.
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Hi ballastanksian.
Just a bit of a clarification on the weight there.
That's 22lb plus the 5lb already in the hull, for 27lb in total so far. It will still need a bit more to get it down to the waterline.
I only asked about the two steam boats because I had no idea what they were. The two dinghies aren't a problem. Should be easy to make. I think there are even some that can be bought pretty much the right size, for just a few bucks from those sites that sell all those period ship fittings. It's down the track a bit, but I like to gather information early for this sort of thing.
Cheers.
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I had a crack at doing some planking over the last few days.
I decided to just leave a fraction of a gap between the planks, rather than try to simulate black caulking with pencil, or ink, or tape, or black paper, etc.
Im afraid I just don't have the patience for that. My apologies to the purists.
I made up a little jig from 3 pieces of ply to cut all the strips into 150mm long planks.
Then I marked the 'imaginary' bulkdead spacings at 30mm apart, which is 1/5 the length of the planks.
As previously stated, I had planned to use the 4 butt spacing layout. What was used originally, I have no idea. I just like the look of this layout. See reply #52.
I started in the center behind the babette, and worked my way out and forward from there.
Doesn't the first plank look so lonely sitting there all by itself.
I'm using medium CA glue to hold the planks in place. Just a thin bead along the centerline of the plank, and then hold the plank in position for 10 or 20 seconds.
Photo # 3 shows the bead of CA on the deck where the next plank is going to be installed.
I am using an old set of flush cutters to trim the planks to length and to cut the angles where required.
I've just got a bit of one side left to do on the main deck, and then it's on to the roof of the cabin.
Here's a few pics of the progress.
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Nicely Done! The gaps will fillin when you apply a finish and be darker than the planks. Perfect!
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Yep. That's the effect I am looking for Akira.
I'm all at sea about whether to replicate the trennels in the planking. I think it will just make the deck look too busy.
Perhaps if they are done with a light grey pencil instead of black? I don't know.
Any thoughts from you guys would be appreciated.
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At the scale you are building the wooden plugs (not trenails as they were just to cover the metal bolts used to hold the deck planks) in the planking will be invisible. They were generally made from the same wood as the deck so are the same colour and after any weathering they barely show up on a full size deck. When newly fitted there would be a light circle showing possibly due to tar used as sealant when fitting.
Jim
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Thanks for the info Jim.
I guess all the bits I had been reading over the last week or so, refered to older period ships before the use of bolts had been taken up for the planking.
Good to know.
I think I will try some test pieces to see what I can come up with.
Cheers.
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I like the planking! It looks really nice when a ship has enough deck area to have loads of it, like some Battle cruisers.
Do what you feel you fancy mate. It's your hobby, do as you like.
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Thanks mate. I might just leave it the way it is.
But I've decided to give the cosmetic surgery a bit of a miss for a while, and get into the engineering side of things.
So this morning I decided to have a go at mounting the motors & drive lines.
After marking out the centerlines of the shafts, I drilled the 6 holes in the hull for them.
Then cut 6 motor mounts from some 30 x 30mm aluminium angle and drilled the mounting holes for the motors. Then mounted the motors.
I also drilled & countersank 4 holes in the base for the epoxy to fill up and create sort of rivets to help keep them in place.
Using a hex flex coupler, from one of my race boats, to keep the shafts in line with the motor shafts, I epoxied the motormount and stuffing tube in place as single units.
I had to cut away parts of the ribs that were sticking up through the floor first though.
Then some epoxy putty was shaped around the stuffing tube where they passed through the hull for extra strength.
After that had all set, I installed the little metal universals that came with the prop shaft/stuffing tube units.
I just need to epoxy in some ply braces at the motor end of the stuffing tubes to strengthen them up.
Here's some pics.
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Its a mad hull shape! Even with the RC gear and batteries, it's going to look half empty. Plenty of room for lead ballast :D
How (if you are) are you going to make the conical shaft housings on the outer hull? On Version1 I turned mine out of wood, while the version 2 I bought, they were formed from filler around/over a ply former.
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It looks kind of crazy but the workmanship is excellent - keep up the good work. Fascinating build.
Hmm are you going to simulate gunfire? I think you can take the weight?
Cheers
Geoff
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Thanks guys.
ballastanksian.
I've been trying to figure out how to make those shaft housings.
A former of the right diameter at the hull & then a cone of thin pvc sheeting, is one thought.
Carved from balsa & then covered with thin pvc sheeting is another.
I don't have a lathe so turning them is not an option.
Geoff.
I'm going to make the guns turn, and raise/lower, but I haven't given any thought to them firing.
I've no idea how that's done. So that would be a whole new learning curve for me. Worth looking into later.
Cheers.
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Had a relaxing day at the club yesterday.
Took along my Higgins PT boat, the English Gentlemens runabout, and my Ferrari hydroplane for a bit of faster fun.
But in keeping with the Novgorod theme I also took a couple of the props to sharpen and balance between running the boats.
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Yesterday I decided to add the armour plating ring around the edge of the deck. Not sure if it was actually armour plating, but in the first pic below, there is a band of some sort between the deck and the waterline. I will still be putting those thick plates around the edge of the deck too.
Firstly I had to make & fit the rudder block to the stern? of the ship. Is there a stern on a round ship?
It was simply shaped from a piece of balsa with a piece of 3mm ply, top and bottom.
I had left the deck slightly oversize to allow for final fitting.
I wraped two layers of masking tape around the hull then sanded the edge of the deck flush with the tape.
The theory being that after the band had been glued onto the edge of the deck, and then the tape removed, there would be a slight gap all round. It seemed to work.
The band is simply a 20mm wide strip of 1/16" aircraft ply. I had to cut the strip that goes around the rudder block, across the grain, to allow it to bend easily around those bends.
I simply stitch glued the strip every few inches with a drop of medium CA glue. Removed the complete deck and ran a bead of the CA all around the join on the underside. Solid as.
It will be even more solid when the overlapping plates are added around the edge of the deck.
Here are the visuals.
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9 inch armour and 2inches of bracket behind so, effectively, 11" armour.
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For simulating gun firing have a look at the Iron Duke thread - start from the end and work backwards!
Cheers
Geoff
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Great info as usual Tony. Thanks.
Geoff.
I'll have a look through it when I get home from work.
Cheers guys.
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Hi guys.
I asked the question to a couple of club members on Saturday, about the conical coverings over the shafts. And ol' mate Graham suggested funnels. What? I exclaimed. Much too broard an angle.
No you dolt he said. Not the main funnel, but the spout part.
Brilliant.
So on the way home from work today, I stopped at the local hardware store & found some packs of 4 small varying sized funnels. At only 5 bucks a pack, I bought 4 of them thinking that should cover the different length shafts.
Turns out I needed 2 of the mid sized ones for the longer outboard shafts, and 4 of the next size down for the other shafts.
After a bit of cutting and shaping, I think I have a good enough representation compared to that photo in my last post.
I've got a lot of funnels left over for future projects. :-)
They aren't glued on yet. I'll do that tomorrow.
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That is a brilliant tip, who would have thought a funnel has more than one use.... O0 Trust a modeller :-))
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Great idea with the funnels and they look exactly right - well done. I once used plastic wine glasses from Tesco's on one occasion just the bottom part of the glass as they were tapered as I needed a hollow taper to push through a rubber hole to make an airtight seal that could be removed frequently. Yes sounds very odd but was an early experiment in my gunfire system on Iron Duke (It did work to a degree but was overtaken by a much better solution).
I do like the imaginative use of other objects in model making. In the past I have used brass wood screws as if you cut the thread off you have a nice tapered shank for binnacles and searchlight bases!
Cheers
Geoff
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A brilliant AND elegant solution! Just a minor word of warning in that a lot of small funnels are made of polythene so watch out if you need to paint them.... %)
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Cake piping nozzles could be an alternative as well , less plastic wastage ;)
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Also, Nozzles that fit on to Mastic Sealant tubes, you can buy these separate at Screw Fix. O0
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Some great tips there guys. Thanks.
I'll store them away in the vault for future projects.
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Not much to report this week.
I trimmed the main cabin with some 3mm pcv angle and planked the roof.
Then I decided to make the two main guns. Mainly because they will determine the depth of the floor in the barbette.
I want to set the floor up to rotate so I need a starting depth.
After sketching up some drawings & sizes, I gathered a few bits & bobs to see what would work and ended up using some aluminium tubing, 20mm conduit and some black sprinkler hose.
Just need to finish them off and make up the bases for them now.
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A bit of an update on the last week or so.
I made up the carraiges for the guns out of some pvc sheeting. The wheels were punched out of some 3mm ply, and the pivot is just some 5/32" brass rod with some short pieces of aluminium tube for the bushes. All held together with medium CA glue.
So this gave me the measurement required for the base of the barbette with the barrels of the guns just almost resting on the rim.
I glued in the base and then added some columns around the inside of the barbette which allowed me to then add the inner wall of 1/16" ply.
Some drawings & photos show some plates around the edge of the floor in the barbette. So I cut a ring of 3mm ply and cut the sections almost through the ply but just leaving the bottom veneer to hold it all together. After using a small triangle file to widen the cuts I glued the ring into the bottom of the barbette.
It was then, of course, necessary to sit the cannon in place for a look.
The next step is to add the ring to the top of the barbette, and set up the rotating floor for the cannon.
Cheers.
Paul.
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Hi Paul,
Just in case you want to add a bit more detail %) . The prop sizes and pitch are in the bit of text re. boilers :-))
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Whilst happy to be corrected I would be surprised if the guns were on wheels. It is more likely they were on an slide mechanism with friction clamps to contain the recoil. At this time there were many different types of carriage some were on an incline so as the gun recoiled it moved up hill.
Guns of this era were all very interesting.
Cheers
Geoff
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Thanks Tony. Some great detail there. But I don't think I've got the patience to add that in under the deck. :-)
Geoff.
There are a few different images of the gun setups as they changed over the years. Initialy muzzle loaded on carraiges, then breech loaded, then the british made articulated mounts.
Buy I'm trying to build this in it's initial setup.
The oldest images I can find, and the two kits that I've come across have the guns on wheeled carraiges, But they are also sitting on sliders of some sort.
The little kit at the start of this thread has the bases at an incline.
The first image below, from a different kit, is the one I basically used for my setup. However I do intend to incline the base. They are just sitting in there in the photos in my previous post.
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There seem to be loads of stuff on here if you know the gun size. http://russiannavy.net/militaryPhotos/engineering/guns/ (http://russiannavy.net/militaryPhotos/engineering/guns/)
As far as I remember, a lot of Russian Artillery was French. Schneider on Canet sliding mounts?
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Good grief, I love building steam engines......but........getting all those synchronised with out the boat / donut / dinner plate going round and round must have been a nightmare .
Loving this build :-))
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Krupps designed most of the guns at that time with Schneider-Canet following on. Most were manufactured in Russia but some were ordered direct from Krupps at exactly that time. This is the Krupps 28cm (11inch) which could fit the situation.
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Good grief, I love building steam engines......but........getting all those synchronised with out the boat / donut / dinner plate going round and round must have been a nightmare .
Loving this build :-))
Hi Phil.
I know very little about steam engines. But my initial thoughts were also that it would be extremely hard to work all 6 engines from forward to reverse to 'tank steer' a boat that always wanted to change direction of its own volition.
Apparantly, later, the outside two engines were deleted as it was deemed that they did nothing for the speed or handling of the ship, except burn extra coal.
This hull has been called a few names now like, fruit bowl, UFO, Parmesan cheese wheel. Now you've added doughnut and dinner plate. Cool. :-)
Cheers.
Paul.
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Krupps designed most of the guns at that time with Schneider-Canet following on. Most were manufactured in Russia but some were ordered direct from Krupps at exactly that time. This is the Krupps 28cm (11inch) which could fit the situation.
Hi Tony.
Thanks for the info & the drawing.
Is that a breech loading gun? with my limited knowlege on these things, I can't tell.
I'm trying to represent the original muzzle loading guns.
Maybe I've copied the wrong gun type from those kits & photos.
Cheers.
Paul.
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Sorry Paul, I hadn't spotted the muzzle loaded bit :embarrassed: . Krupps, if it was Krupps that actually supplied them, were had both in the 1870's so I'll see what I can find as an m/l option.
Cheers
Tony
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Yes, the early Krupp Empire designed and manufactured virtually all of the German pre-WW1 Naval and Land cannons......they later went on to exclusively produce Capital ordinance for the successive German Military regimes
There certainly will be Drawings of the earlier muzzle loading cannon
Derek
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Hi Tony.
Thanks for the info & the drawing.
Is that a breech loading gun? with my limited knowlege on these things, I can't tell.
I'm trying to represent the original muzzle loading guns.
Maybe I've copied the wrong gun type from those kits & photos.
Cheers.
Paul.
That picture of the Krupp 28, is of a breech loader as the shell is shown being lifted to the rear of the barrel - but they dont shown how they pushed the shell in, especially as it is ribbed - ooo matron %)
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It actually gets more complicated! I've found a few "academic" papers regarding armament of the 1870's and even, in a spirit of friendship in the day, there are records of the Americans supplying 11inch MLR guns to St Petersburg!
I've always enjoyed this sort of research so even nothing definite appears, I'll keep up the quest!
Tony
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OK, That's it {:-{ I've failed :D
The Russian fleet used Krupps guns from Germany, Blakeny Ordnance designed guns from the USA, Schneider-Canet guns from France and their own, home made, copies.As far as I can see, and it's been a fair amount of seeing, the barrel shapes for all the possible culprits I can find is the same at the blunt end as you'll see from the pics and nothing like the kit or Pauls mockup.So, in desparation, I actually looked at pics of the contemporary model at Greenwich and, lo an behold, is was the ORIGINAL guns!
So Paul, take your pick!
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My references suggest Krupp guns on Vavasseur style sloping mounts like the gun on my little monitor but then less developed. Being breech loaded, they wold have been cutting edge at the time, certainly superior to our return to muzzle breech loaders especially if Krupp had introduce brass propellant cartridges(probably a later introduction.)
At the end of the day your model does not look toy like like some I have seen so all you are doing is a great improvement. The inner diameter of the turret, and the width of the carriages will dictate the length of your recoil slides but you already have this dimensions should you upgrade your armament at any time.
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I've got to say, I really appreciate the research and information all you guys are offering up.
It is absolutely wonderful.
I'll mull it over as to whether to knock the wheels off the caraiges and upgrade the sliders to match the breech loading guns that I've made.
Again, thanks so much.
This morning I started cutting the armour plates for the rim of the deck.
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One thing that did come up was an indication that the two guns could either be trained individually or locked together and trained as a pair, so you may want to allow for that in the mounts.
Next Question?
Tony :-))
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:11inch_muzzle_loading_rifled_gun(1871)mk2.jpg
Not sure if you have seen this
Cheers
Geoff
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Thanks Tony
It's getting complicated now.
Geoff.
No I hadn't seen that.
Thanks for the info.
Cheers guys.
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Focus now Paul O0
You're doing a great job of the structure and all the important bits I'm sure, whether you decide on original or modified and bearing in mind the modification took place almost while the paint was still wet, you'll make a fine job of whichever.
Just on the subject of bottom paint, you may find the attached causes another sleepless night. %)
Kind Regards
Tony
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Did you know that due to rust the ship was sliced along the whole waterline and vertically into three or four sections. A replica/replacement lower hull was manufactured and the whole lot welded back together to keep her sound! Google it if you don't believe me - only the Russians would do something like that!
I actually have a book on it where it shows it being done.
Very interesting!
Cheers
Geoff
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What a beautiful old ship.
Never seen green below the waterline on a warship before. I think it looks good.
Over the last couple of weeks I've mocked up the funnels from some 40mm pipe & a couple of pipe reducers.
The bases were cut from a couple of spray paint can lids.
I've also made up the rear bridge & the two fly bridges.
Just some 3mm ply for the bases and then planked the same as the main deck, but with 4mm wide planks this time.
Today is a rainy sunday, so I took the opportunity to mark out all the skylights and drill all the holes for the eylets that I'm going to use.
I'll paint them grey and add a disc of clear plastic before I glue them in permanently.
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Love the edge planking! :-))
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Hi Paul,
The green (Officially Moravian Green) came from early versions of anti-fouling in Italy and elsewhere using copper salts as the active ingredient. Sometimes it was painted over with other paint and sometimes it covered over other paint. There was loads of experimentation at the time and even blue hulls were tried in the USA. Green seemed to suit the fashion and it became a norm in Italy, France and the Austro-Hungarian empire as well as odd instances where ships were either given to or taken by other countries. Apparently, the green hull option continued in Russia until the Cold War.
All good fun!
Tony
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Love the edge planking! :-))
Thanks Martin.
I was trying to replicate the parts from the kit as seen below.
I'm working on the circular trims for the funnels and ventilators as we speak. (Work has been rained out for today, so some time off.)
Tony.
Another little history lesson. Thanks.
I love learning about these things.
Cheers.
Paul.
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This week I painted all the armour plates black and glued them around the edge of the deck.
Also built the skylight and rear superstructures. Simply some 3mm ply with some trims added.
A bit of light oak stain for the ply and then a few coats of varnish over the whole thing.
She's slowly taking shape.
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Looking really good Paul :-))
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Thanks Tony.
I've built quite a frw boats over the years, and although this will be the slowest in my fleet, it is fast becoming one of my favorites.
just to let you know, here is my fastest on a test run hitting 118kph (73mph)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JtH-omu4PY&t=4s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JtH-omu4PY&t=4s)
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Very tasty boat there Paul but there's no way my blood pressure would survive driving anything like it. Novgorod is much more my pace!
Cheers
Tony
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The blood pressure does seem to go up a bit when there are 3 or 4 of us racing together.
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Good grief there is no way I could think that fast... :o :o
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hi there whilst searching for stuff for another topic - I came across this - it might be of interest or you might have already seen it.
The Novgorod....what an amazing vessel. (modelboatmayhem.co.uk) (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13464.0.html)
john
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Thanks John.
I hadn't seen the whole thread, but I have seen most of the images & photos in it before.
Great reading.
Thanks again.
Paul.
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A bit of a catch up on the progress.
I worked on getting the motor ESC & servo set up for the rotating platform & the raising of the cannon.
I also had to paint the barbette and the cabin before the final fitout of the cannon.
So I made a bracket from some aluminium angle to mount the motor & ESC onto.
I cut the base out of the barbette and connected the shaft of the platform to the motor/gearbox shaft with a flexible coupler.
A bracket was also fashioned for the servo that will raise & lower the cannon and fixed to the underside of the platform as this needs to rotate with the cannon.
It appears that the original ship would only raise & fire one cannon at a time. So I just connected the rear of them with thread through the floor to the arm on the servo.
When the servo is operated the cross arm would pull the rear of one of them down, raising the barrel. The other thread would just go slack as that side of the arm moved up.
Obviously operating the servo in the other direction would raise the other cannon.
Here's a few pics.
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:o
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Not much to report. Unable to draw very much time from the 'Time Bank' lately. :((
But I've put together the bollards & the air intake cowls.
The bollards are made from some wooden dowel and some pvc sheet.
The cowls were a bit more expensive. But a funny story.
I needed a cowl of 35-37mm with a 16mm riser.
I had the riser in the form of some plastic microjet irrigation tube that had been lying around for donkey's years. Sweet.
But to get the right size & shape for the cowls I headed off to the supermarket with a trusty little 150mm ruler and started measuring the caps on small deoderant sprays, shaving cream packs, ladies personal product type of packs etc. Lord only knows what the other shoppers were thinking when they saw me doing this.
But the ideal candidate ended up being a small Dove, spray moisturiser pack. Perfect in both shape and diameter. Just a bit long, is all, so I only had to cut them down a bit.
So I bought 4 bottles of it for about 2 bucks each, stole the lids, & gave the lidless bottles to wifey to do with them what ever they do with spray moisturiser.
After cutting down the length, I drilled an appropriate size hole in them finishing off the holes with a drum sanding bit in the dremel tool
The pipes were cut to the correct angle & shape and glued into the cowls.
Rosin core solder was used to make a ring around the lip of the cowl and also on the riser just below the cowl as seen in some images of the real boat and other models.
A bit of filler to fair in the pipes to the cowl and then they were painted in grey primer.
Once I cut them to the correct length and angle to match the curve of the deck, I'll paint them in their final colour.
Here's some pics.
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Nice work and looking very good. One way to make cowl ventilators is to use a tube or any container where the neck is about the right size and heat up some plastic card and push a ball down into the plastic. The ball needs to be a good clearance fit taking into account the tube and thickness of the plastic. This produces a semi circular plastic shape which can be trimmed to size. Works pretty well! I actually found old 35mm film canisters and the top off a perfume bottle worked quite well.
Cheers
Geoff
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I don't know if you have seen this but I was browsing through my book collection and came across an article in "Warship 2015" by Stephen McLaughlin (17 pages) which provides some interesting details and anecdotes and explanations. Also some plans and pictures some showing 3 blade and other 4 blade and a mixture of propellers used and explanations. One thing I didn't realize was that the guns in the barbettes were also slightly trainable such whilst they could both point in the same general direction as per normal barbette guns each gun could be traversed a little in their mountings as well so they could actually fire at different targets!
It also provides details of the various modifications they underwent.
Cheers
Geoff
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Re: the trainable mounts. Did the independent training apply to the original carriage mounts as modelled or to later mounts when they went from muzzle loading to breech loading?
Tony
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Hi Geoff.
Thanks for the info on the ventilators. Certainly something to think of the next time I'm making some. I've also used plastic cooking measuring spoons before too, but couldn't find any the right size & shape for these ones.
I haven't seen that book you mention, but I have read that they could train the cannon individually to some extent. I won't be going to that length as I only have a 4 channel radio. Also, it sounds a bit tricky to set up on a revolving barbette floor.
Tony.
A good question.
I'd be interested in the answer to that one too Geoff, if it is mentioned in the book.
Again, not a lot to show for this weeks efforts.
I've mounted the main bridge and the flying bridges permanently.
To get the two flying bridges level and at right angles to the centerline of the ship. I taped them to a piece of straight wood then marked out the positions of the posts . Then removed the bridges to drill holes through the deck.
The posts were cut from some 4mm carbon fiber tube.
Then everything was epoxied in place with the wood brace still taped to the flying bridges.
The 30 minute epoxy gave me plenty of time to get everything set up straight, square, & level.
I've also started making the stanchions from some 1.5mm copper tube with an eyelet glued into the top.
You'll see a few loosely sitting in place in the first photo.
If I can get the funnels and ventilators all trimmed up and glued in today I will be a happy little sailor.
Here's some visuals.
Cheers.
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Fantastic work!
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Whether the guns could individually train a bit both before and after modification isn't mentioned. I was surprised to see there was a lot of difference between the two sisters as one was significantly bigger than the other - I always thought they were twins but far from it, different engines as well. If you haven't seen 'Warship' its an annual publication of technical articles on warships of all nations and periods. Truly excellent articles written by experts and I cant recommend it enough.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=warship+2015&i=stripbooks&ref=nb_sb_noss
I've been collecting this series since it first came out in quarterly publications many years ago and am fortunate to have them all.
You never know what each year is going to bring and when its going to become relevant as our modelling appetites change!
Cheers
Geoff
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Fantastic work!
Thanks for that.
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Geoff.
Thanks again for your input on this build.
Always interesting.
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Hi guys.
I've still been chipping away at this project when I can find the time.
The most recent developement is the final painting and installation of the smoke stacks and the ventilators.
The eyelets arrived the other day so I installed those too after fitting a piece of clear plastic into them.
I put a drip of CA in the back of the small ones to hold it in place and it gave the plastic a 'frosted' look.
Fortunately, I think they look better than plain clear.
Still have the 6 larger ones to do yet. Also the port holes around the main bridge.
Anyhow, here's a few pics. The camera angles make it look as if things aren't vertical, but they are.
Cheers.
Paul.
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Wonderful looking garden table.... :} Good progress. Hope to see her in her element soon.
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That is such a unique boat and an incredible build by you. That really does look nice :-))
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Thanks guys.
Akira,
I too am looking forward to the maiden. It might be sooner than expected now. Due to a lack of work, we have all been given our redundancy notices. So a bit of free time for a while.
I'm in no rush to find another job just yet.
Mark,
I like to build things that are a bit out of the norm. This one fits the bill.
Cheers.
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.... Sorry to hear that Mark, all the best. O0
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Enjoy the period of 'resting' and enjoy sailing that gorgeous Popovka!