Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: raflaunches on January 24, 2021, 04:07:03 pm
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Not just for ex-RMAS crew members (anyone can answer) but I’m interested to know if anyone knows what the underside of either Goosander or Pochard looked like. Specifically the prop(s) and rudder layout. Plenty of above waterline pictures but very little on the internet or in my reference library on the subject and wondered if Dodes or Shipmate60 know the answer.
Any help gratefully received.
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Hi Nick, will go on the RMAS site to get a outline drawing for you. But they had big barn door rudders fitted to a bottom skeg and there was a cage fitted aft round the screw, 2 or 3 rings with long strips leading forward secured to the rings. I know that because i had a near sistership Goldeneye, were a couple of off bits attaching it to the hull came a drift. Had to fill all the forward ballast tanks and empty the aft ones to get the screw out of the water. Plus they were all CPR screws.
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Hi David
Many thanks, I’ve just bought a 1/96 scale model of the Goosander (one of the smaller models I have!) but I wasn’t too sure about the prop and rudder layout as I can find very little information or drawings on this intriguing little vessel.
It has me interested as I’ve never seen a model of one before.
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Nick,
Where did you get the Goosander from when I was on her I did help someone who wanted to make a model with plans and drawings.
Somewhere I did have some drydocked photos of her in Birkenhead, no idea where they are though
I have a scratch built Salmoor from Beale.
Bob
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Hi Bob
I bought it on eBay from a seller called Shaun Binden. The model wasn’t originally r/c and looks like it was supposed to be a static model. It’s hand carved internally and there is a hole where a mounting was once attached. The model is 1/96 scale and the outside of the model is very well done with detailing but due to the deck being cut by a previous owner to try to make it r/c it needs some TLC to rebuild the deck area.
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Good ships but let down by their main engines.
After the war a complete class of minesweepers were cancellad after the Paxman Engines had been bought.
Guess which lucky organisation got most of these!!
V16 main engines a whole 750 Bhp but the V6 gen sets werent too bad.
Bob
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Typically any MoD related behaves like this and gets hand me downs in every department.
It’s amazing how little information on the internet there is about them- I’ve only found a few pictures of them in service.
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Some photos of the little 1/96 scale Goosander I bought- the last picture is why I ask as I’m not sure whether it is right or not.
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Looks as though the Container type sided H plan profile 'office - accommodation block' may be an addition, as it blocks or covers the free flow of exhaust gases from the engine funnel...which is a Regulatory Design matter
We had a number of similar design vessels on Sydney harbour as Naval stores and anchor handling vessels.......moving mooring anchor weights in the harbour floor for vessels to tie up at
I'll see if I can find a pic......
[PS.....also appears as Boom Defence Vessels & were triple expansion 'steam' engined
have a look at ......https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Bar-class_boom_defence_vessel
Derek
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Reference the containers on top, diving team accommodation, she was the one which went south and salvaged the Argentinian submarine. The screw and rudder bears no resemblance to the original. Bob has details of a local member to our group who has a really nice accurate model of her sister ship Goldeneye, perhaps some pics for you can be arranged.
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John will send some pics.
Bob
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Hi David and Bob
Many thanks for the details of certain features and for confirming that the prop and rudder are not correct. I’d be most grateful for any pictures to correct these features :-))
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Try these:
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and this
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and this
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Last one
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Hope this pic may help nick, still searching on facebook as in the RMAS sect someone has up loaded a outline drawing of a Duck class.
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Hi Bob and David
That’s is fantastic of you both to share. I shall correct the model when I return from my deployment (luckily only one month).
Many thanks lads, that’s what I love about this forum- so many brilliant members willing to help :-))
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Found this line drawing of the Pintail, there 6 in total and each pair differed on top with the last two having hydraulic system for the deck machinery, which proved difficult to work as it all came of a single ring main system. Which meant if you were doing a heavy lift and another winch or capstan was used, then this directly affected the main winch speed and power. If you went into the engine room the CP propeller gearbox was bigger than the main engine. An when at sea if you began to punch a strong tidal stream or a heavy wind/sea the engineroom would ring the bridge to tell you to slow down as the engine was starting to overheat. But they were fantastic seaboats very comfortable to be in, sat off the Varne light for six hours in a SW 8to 9 Gale and only made half a mile over the ground, requested entry into Dover Harbour for shelter, refused because they said the harbour had poor holding ground but wait 4.5 hours and perhaps they could lock me into the inner harbour. Could not turn her because of all the heavy salvage gear in the hold and two Trinity House nav bouys on the main hatch. If any one says why was i there it was because I had 5 different forecasts when anchored in the downs the worst was SE 10 immanent from the RN forecasters so i acted on the least worse which was the BBB news.
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Hi Nick, looks like John has removed the cage from the prop. But that class did have a substantial cage round the props, because of the continual deployment and heaving in wires e.t.c aft and anchors etc.
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Couple off pics for you, also she was the last vessel to run under D603 agreement.
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Pics of her relaying shallow dg range at Burntislnd on the Forth.
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Hi Nick, in case you are wondering about the Forward anchor chain cable. They had none, the anchors were secured close to hawse pipe and if the ancor was required you secured a forward mains working wire to it and deployed. In the last pic she had both anchors out plus the aft two stern anchors to keep her in a 4 point moor. For years she had one master called Alister Mc Gregor, small fellow who was a wizard at these craft and the Mooring & Salvage Officers had great respect for him.
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Hi Nick a rough sketch of what was fitted to Goldeneye.
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Hi David
Great information, it’s great to how these vessels were used. The picture are fantastic and when I return home after this deployment they will be put to good use.
Many thanks for your outstanding assistance as always.
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My pleasure mate.
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Hi Nick, this picture is of Salmaids fore deck working a small barge mooring at Faslane, but it would not look any different to Goosesanders foredeck. Mooring chain (square chain)all came in a uniform length of 20ft and 20 links per length, 6 lengths per leg. £.5" for class 4 as in this pic to 6" for 1st class the measurement being taken from the thinnest part in the middle of the link the ends being substantially bigger. But anyway I thought it would give you an idea of some of the work these work boats could cope with. They were classed S.M.V.'s (Salvage, Mooring , vessels), but were used for a lot of different types of work from various trials to maintaining Met buoys with 1/4 mile long risers. Even helping move special units of the cuff, friend of mine salvaged a sekorsky Sea King which was landed at Portland and was flying the next day. But they did recover a lot of crashed R.A.F. planes with RMAS Salvage Diving Teams. But now all gone due to Money savings and internal department arguments
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That is some selection of chain types and sizes there!
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The square link was changed for lighter chain and sold for scrap. Most of the heavy moorings were raised and scrapped. Ironic now we have a 65000 ton carrier.
Bob
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Nothing changes!
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Yes under the contract with SERCO, they were supposed to recover and renew all the chain ground work. Big problem, the firm quoted for doing this, did not come up with new plans at start of contract so most of the moorings were left as are. The other problem is with new open link cable to get the length with the correct weight nigh on trebled the length of chain required which is not possible in the postion of most moorings in up harbour sites. But as with most things when it comes to money the MoD will accept lower standards to have on paper their requirements met. The old moorings had to have a partial raise every 5 years to check for wear and if there was 10% wear the whole mooring had to be raised and checked and all parts with wear over the limit was changed out. In the distant pass times, the chain would be down graded to the next class mooring, so you could be lifting old 1st class in a 5th class moor, which made the 5th better because it had more weight to hold it down, especially in hard rocky bottoms. The square link design came about when the R.N. wanted a standard design of moorings to be laid in any position it wanted. So there were large trials held with various designs of chain and anchors and the square link beat all on holding capacity for its length and weight, a length had a holding power of 1, the anchors on the end are for insurance and peace of mind as a 1st class would hold a large battleship and put no weight on its anchors. Trouble was when the chain was made the RN would take one length out of each batch and test to destruction, plus before 1960, when a inspection of a mooring was done, the lengths were tested at the chain house in the Dockyard. When in the 1980's came new S.A.L.M.O's in the mooring and salvage department demanded test certificates to comply with the D.T.i regs. Unfortunately none were given to square link, so they told the MoD the chain was unsafe, all the spare stock was sold off as scrap. Some port Authorities like the Medway bought them from the scrap yards and used it. The reason for the DTi demanding certs was the Trinity House was using un cert open link chain for light buoys which parted due to wear. But chain is now tested when new to safe working limits then visually inspected after that. So I am glad I am out of it, as I used to have to lift measure and pass fit or replace mooring gear on a regular basis.