Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: radiojoe on March 31, 2021, 10:05:26 am

Title: Go left
Post by: radiojoe on March 31, 2021, 10:05:26 am
It's probably just me but I find the Highways England Go left ad rather patronising and over simplifying an extremely dangerous situation, I'd like to see it remade with the breakdown being a broken cambelt where if you're very quick putting the clutch in you just might have enough momentum to get to the left running lane, and hope everyone else on the motorway is alert, you would have to be very very lucky to roll into a safety zone, IMO so called smart motorways are the greatest mistake in the history of road transport, they say it increases the flow of traffic, go to the end of the M27 at Cadnam and you will see the effect of increasing traffic flow.  <*<  Rant over feel better now %%

Title: Re: Go left
Post by: JimG on March 31, 2021, 11:34:05 am
Up here in Scotland a large section of the M90 has had no hard shoulder since built, only occasional emergency laybys. Just like a normal layby with no extra barriers or safety warnings. There hasn't been any problems caused by this, no major accidents or extra deaths. This road can become busy at peak times.

Title: Re: Go left
Post by: RST on March 31, 2021, 12:06:27 pm
There was a spiel on R4 a week or so ago with one highways expert saying the accident statistics had gone up in just about the cases where it had been introduced. There's probably equal experts arguing either way so never too sure what to believe.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: terry horton on March 31, 2021, 12:39:26 pm
Sadly the so called "Smart" Motorways are only as smart as the drivers that use them.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: KitS on March 31, 2021, 03:09:20 pm
Today's 'Autocar' magazine has a large article on these 'smart' motorways and generally lambasts them.  :((
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: dodes on March 31, 2021, 06:20:20 pm
A Coroner's court has already stated they are dangerous, but it is a cheap option for the government to make more lanes so its !!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 31, 2021, 06:33:18 pm
Whatever statistics are quoted, they certainly frighten me. Just a cheap solution to increasing traffic capacity. As Joe says, if your cam belt goes and your engine seizes up then you will be very lucky if you make it to a refuge area. Your only hope is to pull in, get out and flee! Your car probably won't survive.

Title: Re: Go left
Post by: malcolmfrary on March 31, 2021, 09:09:38 pm
They scare me as well.  I tend to try to pick routes avoiding them, but that is becoming more difficult as time goes on.
A malicious thought - if, say, a cabinet minister was on the wrong end of a smart motorway accident, how long would it be before the statistics started reflecting what we already think?
Getting out to the left is not usually that easy for normal drivers in normal cars.  Unless you are in a Zephyr mk 2 or 3, with bench seats and a column change.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: Baldrick on March 31, 2021, 09:16:48 pm
Highways England has been referred to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to consider a charge of corporate manslaughter
The referral follows the death of Nargis Begum on a stretch of smart motorway on the M1 in South Yorkshire.

Title: Re: Go left
Post by: radiojoe on March 31, 2021, 10:30:22 pm
Apparently there have been 38 deaths on smart motorways since they were introduced as a direct result of no hard shoulder and near misses have increased 20 fold these not only include the broken down vehicle nearly being hit by other vehicles but also to other vehicles having to slow down and trying to pass the break down and accelerating into the other lanes with fast moving traffic, I have never liked motorways but have never tried to avoid them But I do now where ever possible, I just think Highways England seem to be making light of a very dangerous ongoing situation with the light hearted almost funny TV add. but just like HS2 I think we are stuck with it because of the amount that has been spent on it, so sad when money is more important than life.

Title: Re: Go left
Post by: kinmel on March 31, 2021, 11:22:53 pm
No-one is mentioning the additional deaths caused when emergency services cannot reach an incident now the hard shoulder is not available.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: Taranis on April 01, 2021, 07:45:44 am
Unfortunately the standard of driving in the UK is at an all time low. The complacency, lack of attention and anticipation level is abysmal. The driving test is still too easy and law enforcement way understaffed.
There must be very many thousands if not into the million plus who are driving illegally and they only get caught when involved in an accident.  <*< :police:  then get a slap on the wrist and an addition to their driving ban  %%
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: Peter Fitness on April 01, 2021, 08:21:00 am
I have visited the UK on three occasions, and have driven around 20,000 km or 12,000 miles on those trips, mostly in motor homes. I have to say that I was impressed with the courtesy of drivers during that time, whether on motorways, A and B roads, or country lanes. My last trip there was in 2008, so maybe the standard has deteriorated. We have some very ordinary drivers here too, and the standard is definitely deteriorating.

Title: Re: Go left
Post by: malcolmfrary on April 01, 2021, 09:40:23 am
Perhaps the ultimate answer will be intelligent self driving vehicles being the only ones allowed on to the motorways. 
Then again, that might just increase the terror on other roads.  Traffic does generally obey the speed limit on motorways because there are lots of cameras.  I have noted that executive looking cars on the A50 where the cameras are thinner on the ground seem to go a lot faster than similar ones on the M6.  Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: Taranis on April 01, 2021, 09:43:19 am
Small country with 33 million driving licences  :((
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: Dreadnought on April 01, 2021, 09:59:11 am
I'm a professional driver (Coach Driver) and IMO smart motorways are ok. The trouble is other driver are not! >>:-(
Quite often you'll be on the motorway and there will be a big red X in a lane and the amount of drivers that ignore it is quite shocking. <*<
The biggest problem down south especially is everybody seems to want to get where they’re going yesterday. <:(
And they don't really care about you or anyone else, the amount of times I've had people right on my back bumper because I'm sticking to the speed limit. :police:
So yeah I think the standard of driving has gone down in the last six months. >>:-(
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: raflaunches on April 01, 2021, 10:00:48 am
I’ve had two accidents involving my car and something else. My first one I couldn’t get to the left hand side of the dual carriageway as it was blocked by other cars and the other time was on a single carriageway and I coasted to a stop in a driveway. If the second incident had happened on a busy dual carriageway or motorway there wouldn’t have been a chance of getting to the left side as the entire engine was ‘destroyed’ in the impact with the Alsatian dog! I was lucky enough that it was a quiet road as I’m sure that my car would have been rear ended if it had been on a dual carriageway.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: warspite on April 01, 2021, 10:58:10 am
I've had a rear near side blow out whilst at speed (70 mph) whilst in the 4th lane on the M60 (devils brew) between kersley and whitefield on the shallower incline heading clockwise, luckily it was a rear blowout, not sure what a front one would have been like, got over to the hard shoulder reasonably well enough and changed the tyre, scary bit was actually the HGV's passing with the pressure wave they build up.

Personally I believe the standard of driving has drastically decreased ever since the first lock down, when there were very few cars on the road and therefore police were thin on the ground to catch those that drove around as the roads were empty and could excessively speed with impunity, now that the roads are a lot busier the number of speeders has reduced but there is a core element who are still speeding off when the road is clear
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: radiojoe on April 01, 2021, 11:26:51 am
Hi Warspite  You changed a wheel on the hard shoulder! Brave man, but now there is no hard shoulder and on some motorways the safety zones are over two miles apart.

Title: Re: Go left
Post by: JimG on April 01, 2021, 12:11:25 pm
Should UK drivers have to carry and use a reflective triangle for when they break down as they have to do in Europe. Perhaps use road flares as they do in the US. Make it compulsory to wear a reflective vest when they are waiting outside of the car in a safe spot when they break down.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: radiojoe on April 01, 2021, 12:29:33 pm
I have a reflective vest in the drivers door pocket for that very reason, not sure I would like walk down the left running lane to put a triangle out though  %%
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: Geoff on April 01, 2021, 12:46:35 pm
Some years ago with a full car I had a slow puncture on the nearside rear (hard to tell given the state of the tire). It only showed up because that part of the M25 had asphalt and concrete sections and the tire roar didn't change when I went over the asphalt so I knew something was wrong. Pretty sure I caught it soon but by the time I had gone from 70 mph to the hard shoulder and got out the tire was actually smoking with the steel beads poking out!!

I got everybody out on the left of the car and got them behind the safety barrier. I always carry a socket set in my car as its easier to remove a wheel but guess what I'd taken it out and forgot to put it back the day before so had to use the wheel brace which promptly split on me! It was an RAC call out in the end as I couldn't get the wheel off.

So, what would have happened if we had been on a smart motorway - a rear end collision and possibly deaths for sure! They are dangerous because people drive too fast and too close and don't pay attention and wont!! People still use mobile phones when driving and claim their right of way rather than prevent a crash by giving some ground.

The other element was that my car was quite old so had a full sized spare - no chance of fixing anything with an inflatable bottle of gunk! I think all cars should have a proper spare tire by law - space-savers are fine in theory but what do you do with the wheel you take off!

However we should all reflect a little that every time we get behind the wheel of a car none of us is perfect and every time we go out I bet virtually all of us make a little mistake - the miracle is that any of us ever complete a journey in one piece   :-)
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: Plastic - RIP on April 01, 2021, 01:27:41 pm
had to use the wheel brace which promptly split on me! It was an RAC call out in the end as I couldn't get the wheel off.
The second problem with that is most alloys corrode themselves to the hub - even if you got the bolts off, the wheel would not come away.

This is one of my worries so I always carry a long bar with an impact socket on it and the hubs are slathered in Copper-slip.   At least I might have a chance on the side of the road.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: kinmel on April 01, 2021, 01:29:45 pm
Some inquests have reported a 20 minute delay between a vehicle coming to a stop in a running lane and the red cross " lane closed" sign appearing on the gantry.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: Rob47 on April 01, 2021, 01:31:22 pm
Should UK drivers have to carry and use a reflective triangle for when they break down as they have to do in Europe. Perhaps use road flares as they do in the US. Make it compulsory to wear a reflective vest when they are waiting outside of the car in a safe spot when they break down.
Already do that apart from the flares years of living in Germany sort of conditions you to it.

Title: Re: Go left
Post by: warspite on April 01, 2021, 02:02:23 pm
Yes, very brave to change a tyre on the hard shoulder, passenger were positioned a fair distance from the rear of the car and on the grass verge - just in case, but I was shielded by the car rear whilst removing / replacing it, with enough room to jump back if it looked like a collision was going to occur (though in all honesty that would have little effect).

I know some smart motorways dont have the grass verge bordering the inside lane, just a concrete wall, if you are in that position - i would assume you would feel like you were going to be smeared all over that wall in a collision
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: RST on April 01, 2021, 07:14:09 pm
I had an RAC call out after a garage botched a service a few years ago (my usual luck). I was chatting afterwards about changing a tyre in a layby the last time and got pointed out: why do it. Paying for RAC to do it so why do it yourself?  Must admit I never really thought about it, everyone should know how to do it -if you can you do it naturally. Thinking twice he was maybe right , certainly if there was any risk involved and of course not everyone is physically capable. I've never been convinced about the orange triangle thing but I carry high vis, spare shoes, warm jackets, torch, first aid kit etc if I ever have a breakdown or stop at an accident. I'm not sure I'd be happy with a flare or see much point. Having had lots of JDM cars they're already removed at importing, and not sure I'd be happy carrying one. I've always donned my high vis if I've had troubles (there's been a few), but suppose that's a carry over from too much HSE involvement over the years!

Someone I know was brutally killed fixing a tyre on the A9 by a Morrisons truck driver texting at the time.  I'm told that led to the push for the A9 average cameras.  I think they're a total con. I'm still overtaken by folk doing a ton then stuck behind them at 40 in a 60 for a few miles to balance it out. Bikers are the worst for it.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: BrianB6 on April 02, 2021, 04:02:56 am
I don't know what the speed limit is on 'Smart' motorways but here in Victoria, if there is no hard shoulder it is 80 k's. or 50 mph. sometimes with stopping places on both sides if there are roadworks.
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: radiojoe on April 02, 2021, 10:49:15 am
Our motorways are 70 mph except for the smart motorway sections where it drops to 60 mph, People have been "done" for speeding in the smart sections because they hadn't realised they had entered a smart section and were still doing 70 mph or more likely faster, if every one stuck to the speed limit there would be no need for overtaking but as we know if your traveling at the relevant speed limit you will be overtaken every two of three seconds, these days if I do have to use a motorway I find 60 is quite fast enough smart motorway or not.

Title: Re: Go left
Post by: KitS on April 02, 2021, 12:50:22 pm
I don't think so..............

That business about the limit being 60 on a 'smart' motorway may be true in some places but it definitely isn't on the M5, M4 and M42, m'ways which I know very well. The limits there are 70 mph unless it says otherwise on the overhead displays. And in the case of the M42 that's almost ALL the time as the stupid computer that decides the limit (no human intervention involved apparently  :o ) changes the limit up and down the whole time!, no matter how much traffic is on the road!  :((
Title: Re: Go left
Post by: radiojoe on April 02, 2021, 01:04:48 pm
Yes you are quite right Kit, it is generally 70 , I was sure I'd heard it was 60 on smart sections somewhere but 60 will do for me

Title: Re: Go left
Post by: warspite on April 02, 2021, 01:42:10 pm
The Manchester M60 'Smart' section from around Shaw in the North to Carrington in the south on the west side of the circular is usually 70 mph when off peak and changes anywhere down to 40 mph in some areas of high congestion, reducing on a rolling basis to the 'Bridge' over t'canal, fortunately there is a hard shoulder in the majority of areas with very few areas where the bridges remove the ability to have a shoulder i.e. at Irlam where the M62 heads west off the M60, from about 6 in the morning the section heading anti clockwise over Worsley seems to be constantly at 40 mph.