Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: 6705russell on August 01, 2021, 07:02:01 pm

Title: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 01, 2021, 07:02:01 pm
Hi all


Just made a start on the research vessel, few pictures to show progress, moon pool cut out, superstructure fettled and glued in sections, made a start on the crane also, please bear with me if pictures not uploaded.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 01, 2021, 07:05:26 pm
Struggling to upload pictures via iPad, any help appreciated...
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: john44 on August 01, 2021, 07:15:37 pm
Hi Rus, I can,t post pictures from my iPad either, I asked for help with posting pictures on mayhem, I ended up asking
A fellow member, sent him pictures via email and he posted them for me.
Hope you get a reply then I will know.


John
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 01, 2021, 07:19:21 pm
Photos..
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 01, 2021, 07:20:17 pm
I will let you know how to post pics John, will give you a bell tomorrow.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 01, 2021, 07:22:57 pm
ROV winch and frame added.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 01, 2021, 07:27:09 pm
As per the full-size vessel it will run a pair of voith schneider units at the stern, will post a few more pictures when I have filled and straightened various parts on the hull.


Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: john44 on August 01, 2021, 10:30:24 pm
Blimey Russ, that is one big boat, that will keep our busy for a while. Any idea what the finished ballast weight
will be?



John
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 02, 2021, 06:21:50 am
Yes it will John, all up weight is going be around 14kg mark, she measures 1300mm length.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: john44 on August 02, 2021, 09:02:03 am
Hi Russ, just been looking at the images of her on google, the cranes, platforms etc are a models in their own rights
Looking forwards to seeing your progress on this superb model build. Should be a masterclass.


John
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: warspite on August 02, 2021, 11:08:48 am
I would love to know who manufactured the enormous brass hinge for the moon pool on the real ship  {-)
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 02, 2021, 11:58:06 am
In case you may think that the hinge looks out of place there is a plasticard facia to be made that runs around the lip of the moon pool so the hinge won't be seen but if you hang around I will send you the link to the full size hinges used  %)    (unless you have some close up shots of the real Moon pool which show something different maybe?)
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: derekwarner on August 03, 2021, 12:32:14 am
Ships Hatch Actuators, or Tween Deck Floors [cylinders & exposed rods or the like] were always subject to damage from crane grabs or hooks & chains etc

To counter this, Gotaverkin Oresundsvarvet AB engineers developed and Patented the 'Gotaverkin Hydraulic Hinge'....... a linear hydraulic thruster/actuator running along the axis of the hatch leaves and when folded offered little if any elements to be damaged

The actuator end-elevation [in the poor quality image] is just the black circular endcap.......the ships hatch leaves and hinges are shown, the semi rotary motion of the actuator is shown by the red line

Externally, they look very similar in proportion to the body we see of your brass hinge


Your Tween Deck floor hinge has 4 bands with 3 rotary sliding joint faces, a Gotaverkin hinge would have 3 bands and 2 rotary sliding joint faces.......just paint it the same colour as any other hydraulic component on the vessel....so I wouldn't be too concerned at all.... :-)) 


The Patent expired probably 40 years ago and I believe Gotaverkin Oresundsvarvet AB were amalgamated into MacGregor Handling Systems which operate as a multi national supplier of Ships handling equipment, [https://www.macgregor.com/ (https://www.macgregor.com/)] ....who are in turn a subsidiary of Cargotec Corporation

So don't hide it....if someone asks....just tell them it a model of a .....Gotaverkin Hydraulic Hinge O0 ...no one could question you!


Derek
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 03, 2021, 06:57:44 am
I knew I had seen them hinges before Derek :-))
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: RST on August 03, 2021, 08:22:39 am
Hi Russell, are you fitting the work over rig also?  The kit looks work of art on the pictures of the German guys model over on rcgroups.


Rich
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 03, 2021, 09:48:01 am
Yes I think so Rich eventually, I need to come up with a design for the stern as I have gone for the cheaper Voith drives so this will mean the brushless motor will protrude above deck level so need to make some sort of small rig/s to cover these, will have to have a search on the web and see what these survey ships carry on deck...
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: RST on August 03, 2021, 05:05:44 pm
I believe it's an IRM / light construction vessel rather than survey.  I can post a few pics of my days doing IRM in the north Sea.  Plenty of deck clutter to chose from.  I don't think it will give any secrets away, not now the vessel is scrapped and you won't know the project.


Rich
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: Peter37 on August 05, 2021, 09:25:14 pm
Voit Schneider units what you have on the picture, will NOT FIT to this ship.  They are to high. Tou must use newest version.  I have this ship, I was messure this unit when my kit arrived. Kit alone is excellent, I just finishing this model, there is a lot of lights, this is my last job see link:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3584371-Edda-flora (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3584371-Edda-flora)
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: RST on August 05, 2021, 09:49:27 pm
Hi, Peter AKA DDG AKA the "German guy" I alluded to on rcgroups?  I believe Russell already knows that the motors will be too high to fit as he stated in his post before?  Unless you know something different also?


...if someone wants to sell me a brushless Graupner drive for reasonable money I'm all ears as I ordered one for a project but the retailer didn't tell me it was the last one!


Rich
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on August 05, 2021, 10:36:46 pm
Yes I think so Rich eventually, I need to come up with a design for the stern as I have gone for the cheaper Voith drives so this will mean the brushless motor will protrude above deck level so need to make some sort of small rig/s to cover these, will have to have a search on the web and see what these survey ships carry on deck...
You could put a cache of buoys or maybe a set of containers on the deck to hide the motors.
 :-)

Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: RST on August 05, 2021, 11:57:26 pm
Sorry about the blurry pics, one of my phones went screwy for a while.  I've also redacted a few indentifying codes off some items but here are a few pics of IRM works we used to do all the time (sat. diving rather than with WROV's though but gives an idea).  We had allot more more intersting things but I'm not sure it's right to share them.

IRM is not exciting work to most engineers (or folk offshore).  I liked it immensly because nothing is the same one day to the next or week on week.  But it's not long term projects allot of folk like to get on their CV.  Most of it is spent trying to find leaks, doing condition surveys, replacing valves, and stopping people touching things they shouldn't plus constant mobs and de-mobs and endless change-outs of equipment and parts.  The interesting and limiting thing on a DSV is the divers and managing depths and time in sat.  You don't have that on a ROV boat, nor all the hassle of DP3, weather patterns.

Scale squeeze 1, 2 and 3.  Mostly 20' ISO tanks with WD1000, bactericide, corrosion inhibitor, Methanol, MEG and other things plus big 1,000Barg triplex pumps, manifolds, valves, dosing pumps.

Concrete matresses -run of the mill:  Lots and lots of them, hundreds and hundreds to put down on new lines or just to add to existing ones.

New flexible jumper pissibly 8 or 10" bore.  Plus associated drdgers,  DMA's (clump weights), mattresses and bulk bags full of sand to shore things up.

A 100Te AHC crane is probably a waste on an IRM boat but they can probably work deep, they'll be good for light construction also -she'll maybe spend at least 75% of the time lifting less than 25Te if not 10Te just on the whip line if they're working shallow.  We did a few lifts above 50Te but not many.  And if you're picking up from the sea bed itself 100Te dissapears into nothing (I forget the de-rating).

I don't know where the "survey" description comes from frfor her as the owners don't list her as that and they don't list typical survey kit -I think it's a mis-labelling in marinetraffic.  I would like to have spent some time on a more modern WROV boat though.

Hope the attached pics give some inspiration.

Rich
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 06, 2021, 09:03:04 am
Voit Schneider units what you have on the picture, will NOT FIT to this ship.  They are to high. Tou must use newest version.  I have this ship, I was messure this unit when my kit arrived. Kit alone is excellent, I just finishing this model, there is a lot of lights, this is my last job see link:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3584371-Edda-flora (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3584371-Edda-flora)


Hi Peter


Yes thanks for the message, I do realize the units I have  bought are slightly to high to fit under the deck but just trying to keep the cost down, I will fit some kind of storage crate or work frame above them.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 06, 2021, 09:03:40 am
Rich


Thanks for the pictures, most appreciated.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: warspite on August 06, 2021, 10:22:58 am
With the 100te crane - is, lifting a 10te or 25te load off the seabed a weight that is maxed out when at depth, as the weight of the cables of the crane add to the load at some sweet spot on the way up?
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: RST on August 06, 2021, 10:47:48 am
....you have different ratings for deployment and recovery if it's from the sea bed.  The minute something touches down, its weight can multiply pulling it up again.  When we put manifolds and things down, it's sometimes been a one-way ticket.  I forget the multipliers now.  A 20Te clump weight / DMA going down becomes something like 40Te for coming up.


On an IRM boat most work is mattresses, valves, spools, control units and jumpers so relatively light works.  Actually most of our work was just turning valves and looking for leaks.  That said, I dunno about deeper ROV based work.  It's a bit different rules with divers.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: Peter37 on August 06, 2021, 11:08:09 am
If you want to use cheaper- higher power units, you have to think about how to manage pushrods from 4 servos.Servos must be a lot higher, as in the original project, plus you have thing about access to the rear deck where  is a crane...   remove whole rear deck as on original is not a good idea, rear deck have to be waterproof  Good luck
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: Peter37 on August 06, 2021, 11:14:55 am
RST:   What is GERMAN GUY????
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 10, 2021, 08:17:57 pm
I have had a look at installing the Voith drives, I presume it makes no difference which way they are positioned because they are central to the servo positions?  I am hoping if I can fit in the position shown I wonít have to alter the deck as the motors are just below..
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: RST on August 13, 2021, 10:24:40 pm
Quote
RST:   What is GERMAN GUY????


Hi sorry, it's OK to call me Rich when I post.  I might be mistaken -are you DDG51 on rcgroups?  Someone told me you were in Germany but I don't know.  Everything I see is on RC groups with no author details at all.  Sorry for any offence if I caused any.

Rich
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 15, 2021, 07:01:59 pm
Some more work this weekend, made the bulwark supports up ready for fitting, the crane is a scratch build to a point apart from the brass etch..
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: Skrotiz on August 15, 2021, 09:14:35 pm
That is one massive crane!
And a great build.
Can't the motors for the Voith units be modded to mount the other way around, so the motor sits below the belt? That would be my solution to the problem but I have never seen one of those units live so don't know if its possible.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 16, 2021, 09:38:33 pm
The motors as located are now under the deck so canít see any issues with them at the minute..


The crane is going take some time to build, quite a bit of detail in it with brass etch railings etc.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: RST on August 17, 2021, 09:40:01 pm
Quote
That is one massive crane!

...I'm trying to find a coule of pics. from when I was doing H.A.T. of two new knucklebooms at MacGreggor in Kristansand years ago.  We needed a client witness prior to shipping from Norway to Finland.  Not as big in capacity but very high pedestals.  We went up and to the end of the boom.  I was not very happy -a) I'm not good at heights b) there was perilous less edge protection going from the crane king up to the boom and c) walking the boom the hand rails are bare minimal -it was awful weather, torrential rain and thunderstorms.  I needed new underpants when I got back down.  The MacGregor supervisor I was with was well used to it of course! No harnesses for either of us which would have been mandatory if we were in the UK if they would even let a client up there.  That was just on MacGregors scrappy test barge in the harbour which was well used and battered to pieces but with thunder and lightning all overhead and rain like it came from a fire hose.  I went up on a couple of knucklebooms since but just to the cab and that was far enough ever since, going back down on the regular ladder was bad enough!

...We actually paid 1M NOK reluctantly to have two knucklebooms painted.  An extortionate amount at the time but fair play -most of it was actually scaffolding to get up and along there rather than the prep and paint.  They are very big things once ready to plant and on the delivery skids (they came ready to plant on deck for us) awaiting delivery by heavy lift.

I'm annoyed I can't find the pics of the H.A.T. in Kristiansand now to share with you -they must be buried somewhere on other hard drives.  They might have helped with some top details.

Rich
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on August 17, 2021, 09:43:37 pm
Thanks Rich


I have a good set of drawings for the crane detail from the chaps in Germany so should be ok mate  :-))
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: RST on August 17, 2021, 09:55:46 pm
Ha, just found a couple of pics.  I have to be careful what I post but these don't give anything away.
First is the cranes on the delivery skids.  They are quite massive from the ground.  I also have some pictures somewhere from the factory hall but couldn't share them if I could find them.  Second is from the top of one of them.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: RST on August 17, 2021, 10:02:22 pm
...ps sorry last photo is rotated and stretched.  It's the quirk of the forum software again for random photos.  We've been there before, if you want to see it just double click or whatever and it is all good.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: derekwarner on August 17, 2021, 11:17:02 pm
here we go  %) O0 ............. Derek

Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: RST on August 17, 2021, 11:20:01 pm
Quote
here we go  (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/rolleyes1.gif) (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/smiley.gif) ............. Derek
...thanks Derek -I wasn't going through that faff myself again.  We know there's a quirk of the programming in the background, it works for some and not others.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on September 11, 2021, 12:14:36 pm
Bow thrusters fitted  :-))



Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: Peter37 on November 20, 2021, 03:12:36 pm
You used a beautiful bow thrusters. Where is possible to purchase them??
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: 6705russell on November 20, 2021, 06:10:58 pm
Hi


The bow thrusters are from Bauer Modelle in Germany.





Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: chum444 on November 20, 2021, 06:59:13 pm
RST:   What is GERMAN GUY????
[/quote


https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3584371-Edda-flora (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3584371-Edda-flora) DDG61ís build. He is a very talented builder.
Title: Re: Edda Flora
Post by: Peter37 on November 20, 2021, 09:26:48 pm
Thanks for information