Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Full Scale Ships => Topic started by: Colin Bishop on September 13, 2021, 10:07:20 pm

Title: Nuclear Subs
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 13, 2021, 10:07:20 pm
Just been watching 'Submarine - HMS Trenchant'. It blows BBC's Vigil out of the water!

I was given a tour of HMS Trafalgar at Plymouth Naval Days in 2009. Incredibly cramped inside.

Colin

Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: gingyer on September 13, 2021, 10:18:30 pm
You were lucky, I got a tour of HMS Spartan it was smaller
My head hurt a few times  O0



Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: roycv on September 14, 2021, 06:40:07 am
Hello a few years ago I was in Hamburg where I went round a Russian submarine and I am amazed that you could get just 3 people together at any one time it was so cramped.
Roy
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: BrianB6 on September 14, 2021, 07:28:26 am
I have visited H.M.A.S. Ovens in Perth and could not get far enough away from anything to take a photo showing how crowded it was.
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: roycv on September 14, 2021, 08:54:06 am
Hi I have been on HMAS Ovens as well best bit was getting my wife on or do mean in her.  It may be the eternal wind blowing around Perth plus some rain that convinced her but it was a very well conducted tour as well.  I thought the Maritime museum there was as good as anywhere.

Roy
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: Circlip on September 14, 2021, 09:38:17 am
Yes, but even the S boats are/were bigger inside than type sevens. Thanks to family connections have been aboard S,T and V boats with a "Round the bay and back in time for tea" on Spartan many years ago. Given that "It turns and banks like an aircraft" (Captains statement), when asked if I wanted to drive it, I declined cos they wouldn't allow me to loop it. Ward room on a "V" is massive.


  Re "Head banging" gingyer, I noticed the bits poking out on first visit on board Swiftsure. In industry, all drawings I produced had "Remove all burrs and sharp edges" printed on them, so quite a surprise when confronted with lumps of metal with corners on them. When questioned about it, eldest remarked "It doesn't take long to know when and where to duck". Now given there was a problem in "Daylight", think of a fire drill with reduced lighting. Given that there was a lot of formica panels making it look like a windowless caravan, at the end of the day, they are warships. Given the windowless state, one of the crews mum asked "How do you see out?" Lad turned round and said "Me Mum thinks it's like the b****y Seaview."


  Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: BrianB6 on September 15, 2021, 02:43:01 am
Of course it depends on what submarine one travels in.   Some years ago I went in a tourist sub in Mauritius and have a certificate to prove it!  Lots of fish and corals.
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: Liverbudgie2 on September 15, 2021, 08:24:06 pm
If you think that our boats are cramped you should try a French one; in one of those boats you will find out what it's like to be a tinned sardine!


LB
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: derekwarner on September 15, 2021, 10:43:12 pm
Wow............the Australia  PM has this morning announced we will join the nuclear-powered world with steam-powered submarines  :-)) ... Derek


Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: derekwarner on September 15, 2021, 10:44:13 pm

Looks like we will have to Deport all of the French language translators  O0 .....[& loads of tins of garlic frogs + snails] .....


Lots more comments, but lets keep it non-Political :-X



In the previous round of Expressions of Interest, the offer from the US was to supply 5 new US built n-Submarines on a Lease basis & take each one back to US waters for any major refit/rework


Derek

Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: roycv on September 15, 2021, 11:31:30 pm
Quite a surprise but also logical.  Did I hear right that the N-subs were to built in the UK?

 Is that a direct threat to China about invading Taiwan, I wonder.  They have 14 N-subs  UK has either 11 or 12 depends who you read.
US has 72 and although Russia has 45 you may wonder if they are all serviceable.  I suppose all navies have some subs in for servicing all the time.

I do not think it will stop China, the current way is to rescue them from foreign intervention and with the fake news we are bombarded with, the truth will be difficult to work out.
regards
Roy
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: derekwarner on September 16, 2021, 12:10:20 am

Hullo Roy........yes certainly logical...our first step into the real World of power :-X


Our current Collins Class [Kockums from Malmo] submarines were built in Adelaide by the Australian Submarine Co-Operation ......the Class of 6 is about 1/2 way through their life cycle so if the new Class of n- submarines were operational in say 8 years would be a safe bet & from the same build facility


Some 25? years ago, I co-ordinated the NDT [Classified tests] for a Dutch built "Bredel" peristaltic pump as original equipment on the Kockums design & so prior to acceptance documentation by the RAN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OXp3jgJLbE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OXp3jgJLbE)

These tests were conducted at the St Marys Department of Defence facility in Sydney ......some 12 months later, I toured the ASC in Adelaide & viewed the installation of the pump


Derek
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: Liverbudgie2 on September 16, 2021, 01:38:03 am
Unlikly to be built in the UK because Vickers at Barrow is fully committed to the Astute and forth coming Dreadnought programme, could be Lairds at a stretch I suppose but that would mean rebuilding and expanding the yard amonst other things.


LB.
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: BrianB6 on September 16, 2021, 03:08:01 am
The idea will be canned by the first Labour government which might be next year. We will then have to pay $billions to the French to resurrect their outdated design.  <:(
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: Circlip on September 16, 2021, 10:38:03 am
Quote
we will join the nuclear-powered world with steam-powered submarines


  But aren't all nuclear powered subs steam kettles Dereck?


   Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: jaymac on September 16, 2021, 11:00:45 am
Is the navy not looking at  propulsion other than Props possibly Flippers
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: roycv on September 16, 2021, 11:16:06 am
I think it is just propulsion not nuclear armaments.  But no doubt we shall see.
Roy
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: warspite on September 16, 2021, 11:45:37 am
wait till they propose the gungan bongo submarine type propulsion propeller
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: derekwarner on September 16, 2021, 01:02:11 pm

Silent nuclear submarines? ..........remember some years back the story of a quiet Australian Oberon Class submarine shooting periscope pictures of the Big E despite the "huge number of defensive Support auxiliaries protecting it".....most embarrassing  :embarrassed:

*The following extract from the WIKI article is incorrect, as it states Australian submarines [Plural] were involved, when it was one only Australian submarine in the action

"The Oberons were arguably the best conventional submarine class of its time, with an astonishing reputation for quietness that allowed it to exist into the 21st century until replaced by newer classes such as the Collins and Victoria classes in Australia and Canada respectively. In fact, the ability of the O-boats to run in total silence enabled Australian *submarines* to successfully attack USS Enterprise, despite a huge number of supporting ships 'protecting' it. This led to the U.S. re-instating diesel boats into their fleet with the Los Angeles class SS"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AOberon_class_submarine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AOberon_class_submarine)


Derek
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: dodes on September 25, 2021, 05:31:32 pm
I cannot comment on new Nucs, but the older ones where very noisy, but very fast and deep, though the Nimrods could technically pick up and sink them in 3 minutes, but the SSK's where very quiet and could do snick in here and there. Surprised the Aussies have taken so long to take them on, suppose it is worry over the nuclear waste problem. But the sea area they have to cover and the deep water down there ideal boats I would have thought, as to nuc weapons all subs SSN and SSK with 21" tubes can launch nuc armed tomma hawks.
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 25, 2021, 06:34:19 pm
Quote
[bThis led to the U.S. re-instating diesel boats into their fleet with the Los Angeles class SS[/b]

That isn't right either. The Los Angeles class were nuclear propelled. They have a diesel generator if the reactor fails which can power the elecric propulsion motors. In fact 'get you home' backup plants seem to be a feature of many nuclear subs including the Astute class. I don't think these backups are intended to be used operationally.

Colin
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: dodes on October 07, 2021, 05:08:38 pm
I think Colin , what I friend was inferring, is that the SSK's in silent mode on electric motors are very quite in comparison to a SSN and can creep up on a target un-noticed better. But to day with advanced a/s equipment, I would think it is very difficult for any sub to creep up now. Especially with A/s aircraft about and the new towed arrays which kill any living thing in the sea within 1/4 mile.
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: Colin Bishop on October 07, 2021, 07:48:20 pm
Yes, but as far as I'm aware the USN don't have any non nuclear subs.

I do agree that the non nuclear diesel/electric boats can be quieter underwater than the nuclear ones but, as always, it's a trade off in capabilities. In coastal waters the SSK may well have the edge which is why several countries favour them for local defence.

Towed arrays are usually employed in listening mode. The last thing a submarine wants to do is to 'go active' and thereby give away it's position, even if the towed array is some distance astern.

Colin
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: dodes on October 08, 2021, 05:26:51 pm
High Colin, when I mentioned towed arrays , I was thinking of ship launched ones. Though I would not be surprised if subs now launch towed arrays if only as listening devices, but i remember a few years ago a well publicised collision between a American and Russian sub some 160 miles off New York, the Americans were red faced as they were unaware of the other sub until they collided.
Title: Re: Nuclear Subs
Post by: Colin Bishop on October 08, 2021, 05:45:58 pm
Looks like something similar might have happened in the South China Sea yesterday!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58838332

Colin