Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: James321 on October 13, 2021, 05:00:37 pm
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Hey guys, newbie here, both to the forum and to building boats so please go easy on me if I'm making any ridiculous mistakes along the way with this build. I'm an aircraft engineer by trade and have built several rc aircraft so I've been using that knowledge and skill set in this build.
I picked up the kit from eBay, the kit has been previously built and then disassembled but the seller had included the majority of parts needed for the build, pretty much everything except for the bulkheads, structure and deck. I'm guesstimating the kit is around 20 years old, the running gear and building methods certainly seem from a previous generation but as I said, I've never built a boat so not qualified to answer that. The bow of hull had sustained some damage during shipping which had caused the shape to distort, the hull appeared to have had a previous repair or had been re-skinned at some stage, however the resin was still tacky and didn't appeared to have fully cured. I set about sanding it out which was an experience! If you've never tried sanding uncured resin then I would advise against it, you spend more time de-pinning the sandpaper than removing material.
Once the hull was flattened out enough it was pretty flimsy, a quick order to easy composites had a selection of carbon fibre cloth and resins to put some strength back in the hull. I cut a front deck section out of MDF to help form the damaged hull, applied the carbon fibre and taped the deck section down.
* no idea how I post pictures on here?
https://flic.kr/p/2mzS8hk (https://flic.kr/p/2mzS8hk)
https://flic.kr/p/2mzZLRw (https://flic.kr/p/2mzZLRw)
(https://flic.kr/p/2mzZLRw)
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Once the carbon fibre and resin had cured, I sanded it back to make life easier when it comes to attaching the bulkheads, etc, it doesn't look neat but it will when it's all finished and gets a final coat of resin.
https://flic.kr/p/2mzS844 (https://flic.kr/p/2mzS844)
*If someone could explain how I can post pictures on here it would be a great help, I don't see any instructions?
https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjBF (https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjBF)
https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjFd (https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjFd)
https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjK1 (https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjK1)
https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjAt (https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjAt)
The bulkheads weren't included in the kit and the plans are pretty poor, they are more of an instruction sheet than a plan so making the bulkheads was a lengthy process of folding and cutting paper until it was approximately the correct shape and then transferring that to MDF so I could file away until I had a good fit.
It was a long process made easier by my friend who had recently purchased a CNC machine as a project, I made good use of his untested machine to carve out some pretty good (for a first attempt) bulkheads.
https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjHH (https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjHH)
https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjHs (https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjHs)
Once the shape was finalised the CNC was again put to use in cutting out some carbon fibre sheet. The whole structure will be built from carbon, we use it on full size aircraft so why not employ it on this boat, it's strength to weight ratio is difficult to match.
(https://flic.kr/p/2mzWjHs)
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I believe that the Admin has put a minimum of post a newbie needs to load before one can add pictures. But I can't find the post about it anyway keep posting :-))
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Looks very neat and tidy!
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Well I've tried numerous ways to get my Flickr pictures to show up on here but no luck so I either just post up links or just forget about sharing a build thread, I've wasted too many hours trying to get this working and its becoming annoying.
The insert image doesn't work, the add image to post doesn't work and the upload image....doesn't work.
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51579871276_a3063f1740_4k.jpg)
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Well I've tried numerous ways to get my Flickr pictures to show up on here but no luck so I either just post up links or just forget about sharing a build thread, I've wasted too many hours trying to get this working and its becoming annoying.
The insert image doesn't work, the add image to post doesn't work and the upload image....doesn't work.
...a ha it does work from flickr but a bit fiddly as they don't make it easy for sharing or doing anything with pics unlike other image hosting sites! I think I had to show someone how to do it similar way for imgb or something like that a while back. For me the "attachments"option is much easier but here's how I think figured out one of your pics (if I can do it, anyone can). Unless of course image links are restricted during the early stages of a new user also. There's a post on how to do photos at the top in "chit-chat":
- Seems to work from the desktop site rather than mobile ('tinterweb says similar)
In FIREFOX: Right click image and go to "inspect (Q)". Normally I'd just right click and select "copy image location" but that doesn't seem to work for flickr
Go to the line where the .jpeg is. DO NOT try to right click and copy, it doesn't work. Just use ctrl + "C". You can't copy this directly into a new post here for whatever reason -looks like something is restricted in the programming. I pasted into powerpoint (just because I had it open anyway). Select the text i.e. //live.staticflickr.com/65535/51579871276_a3063f1740_4k.jpg ....actually I just re checked and you can paste to the forum but the coding can go a bit screwy and the forum can put in extra code so you need to be careful your text doesn't re-size, go bold etc.
Go to "Insert image" icon in the post reply section. In the pop-up window paste the above image text but add in "https:" at the start
...See if that works for you!, it just did for me. Should be easy enough to master, it took about 2mins for me to try and I'm no expert or have much patience. If that works for you someone can show me how to get bullet points to work because it never seems to on SMF forums!
Hope that helps, worth a try anyway.
Rich
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PS: Just noticed in the way I got it to work there's no note at the bottom to say it is "Jim such and such's photo feed from flickr". Makes little difference but when that message is there you can usually get to the persons flickr page and mooch around any other public photos in the album. Not sure if I'd worry about it either way, and I know it's terribly unpopular to have to click on a link on a forum these days, but the photos are there regardless. Anyone interested would hopefully still look like I was. It's still better to use an image hoster if you can find one with amicable t's and C's these days, in my opinion it takes the load off the forum plus photos show when you're not logged in.
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Photos on the Forum: https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,61103.0.html :-))
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Thanks Rich, let me give that a try. Life used to be much easier with photobucket until they became thieves, Flickr was a reasonable option but the UBB code which is the usual way of posting pictures on forums didn't seem to work here. When I get some more time I'll sit and try and work through it. Thanks again.
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Thanks Rich, let me give that a try. Life used to be much easier with photobucket until they became thieves
....yes I know but I was always a photobucket user also and niavely lost all my photos also -they changed how long ago, the gripes about photobucket are very long gone, dusted and buried by now. A Prime example how we fell into a free service then they started to charge so we simply stay or move on. Do you want to upload everything on-line or just chose a few pics? (Facebook users need not apply)
That process for flicr works and it takes about 30s a picture to pull from yours to here so can't be that bad? As I said I explained to a different user but they continue to post just links ever since which is their choice. We can all wax lyrical about photobucket forevermore but it won't come back! and you must be many years to complain about it so not much sympathy now as we were all in the same boat.
PS: In the background I also asked martin / admin to include the ability to post from flicr on the image posting thread I siad before as it's not mentioned there but is in reality pretty simple or -if in doubt just attach a picture to be straight and threy couldn't male it much easier just to "attach"
I also used to have an on-line gallery with a digital camera magazine. I made it to front page, then they changed and went to social media type posts. I lost everything trying to log-in afterwards and was told tough love by the magazine: new system like it or lothe it. Reminder that wherever you post to for free or cheap is not in your control, it's just all a balance of whatever t's and c's you accept but they will probably change regardless. Post away but never, ever be afraid to lose a picture you post is a good rule to follow. Pics uploaded as attachments on here are just the same -chose who you upload to and take the terms.
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OK, I think Ive got this figured out (thanks Rich!) so let me start again with the pictures and I'll continue the build thread from here:So here's the kit after it was unboxed, you can see the difference in colour in the hull where the resin was poured in the rear end only, the cabin had the original decals or actually they are vinyl stickers, these have all been removed and rubbed down:(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51579052367_a4158bbe36_h.jpg)
The new parts included in the kit saved my bacon as these aren't available anywhere:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51580544544_1fceac3dd5_c.jpg)
So as i mentioned previously, there were no bulkheads or structure included and the plans aren't great for determining the shape of the bulkheads at a given point in the hull so I set about making paper templates, these were then transferred by computer magic into a digital image for the CNC machine:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51579872211_9abc26636a_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51579870871_41c1dd1bd6_h.jpg)
With the bulkhead shapes finalised we put the carbon fibre sheets in the CNC and let the black dust commence, the finish was a little rough but after a quick run over the edges with sandpaper they looked great:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51580795595_a235c9b602_c.jpg)
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:-))
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:-))
Hi Martin, did you update the photo guide to add for flicr?
Rich
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Continued(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51579871276_53dad0b492_h.jpg)
The hull interior looks messy here because its sanded back so the adhesive bonds better, I'm using Voduglue which is an Easy Composites product, it gives an incredibly strong bond, you could literally glue aeroplane wings on with this stuff, its down side is a very short working time, you have less than 10 minutes before its staring to cure so the aligning, application, aligning and fixing has to be rehearsed a few times before you commit to the fitment.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51580101658_54afff569d_h.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51579870901_1a7a7bf5e5_h.jpg)
I added some more strength to the forward bulkheads, it isn't really required but once the deck is fitted these areas will never be seen again so what looks very messy in the pictures is purely function over form. I used some 25mm carbon cloth, its the same method for glass cloth, paint on the resin, allow it to cure to the A stage (tacky but not wet) then apply the cloth and using a paint brush or roller, push it in to the edges and leave it to cure, I usually give it a good 24 hours but the temperatures here in Dubai are quite a bit higher so I'm being excessive on that cure time.
This picture is with the cloth applied but without the top coat of resin:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51580544169_cb542a6506_h.jpg)
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Attaching the Jet drive was a messy experience, due to the previous owners resin coat and then my addition of carbon skin, the dimensions were all askew so it took some time and a lot of adhesive to get them watertight and in a position that would line up the impeller, prop shaft and suction tubes without the impeller binding, again this was a process that required several dress rehearsals before committing to adhesive
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51580114583_63278aae45_h.jpg)
The original Graupner plans have the servos mounted on sections of ply which are attached to the sides of the suction tubes at the very rear of the hull interior. I'm a little concerned with my weight distribution on this build as the original runs with 2x 6V 8mAh motorcycle batteries which weigh in a 2kg per piece, I'm going to be running 2x Lipo 4s 5000mAh which weigh in at 450g per piece so the CG of my boat is going to need to careful consideration.I drew up a single servo mount tray and made it from MDF to see how it will fit, it had a few design changes until I had the two steering servo and two reverse servo servos in line with the holes in the transom.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51580782280_65dea2e6f7_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51579065682_c896859e67_c.jpg)
Here the servo tray is straight off the CNC machine so its got rough edges, the small L shapes are for L Section carbon to become the servo mounts.
A bit of cleaning and sanding later and I attached the L Sections using the Voduglue
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51579065907_aeaf3e9f36_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51580114463_ca3db225cb_h.jpg)
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My next job is installing the motors, I've gone for a pair of 3660 1460KV motors to go with the 4S LiPo, that should give me approximately 16,000rpm on the impeller if I did my maths correctly, I can always go up a size to 6S on the batteries if this setup doesn't work so well but I wanted to keep the current/heat down as much as possible.
Here's a question for the experience out there on the forum; Motor/ESC cooling - Dubai is a salt water environment, there's no fresh water lakes if you exclude the swimming pools, I really REALLY don't want to use the sea water as coolant, carbon fibre and aluminium are not galvanic table friends in a salt water environment, the aluminium will literally dissolve! I was considering running a water tank and using that as coolant, it would also probably help with getting the weight back in the boat that I lost through the batteries. Is an onboard water reservoir something commonly used on RC boats, will it have the capacity to keep the motors cool?
Anyway, back to the motors and mounts, I considered making the aft bulkhead the motor mount but it just got too complicated in having everything lined up, it would have had to be perfectly aligned on both sides for it to work and this 20 year old model is far from perfectly aligned so I went for two separate motor mounts:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51585233105_e88bb12e79_h.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51584993679_7f72d5e45c_c.jpg)
These will be attached using the same adhesive as the rest of the build. I think I've got them lined up well enough, I can slide the motor in and out and it connects straight in to the coupler, I'm not at a stage where I can run the motors yet, I'd like to do that to ensure there's no vibration from misalignment but it looks good by eye.Next job is to design the battery trays and ESC trays, I also think I'll have to mark out the water line and pop her in the bath to figure out where those should be positioned. I also have a bilge pump and coolant pump to work out where to position.
That's this thread up to date, I'll be working on completing the servo tray today and then hopefully be receiving material for the deck next week, I'm still undecided on staying with ply as per the original or switching to a 1.5mm thick plasticard deck, I'm thinking the latter as it's an easy product to work with and I would assume has better longevity.
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So taking an alternate thought, many combustion engined vessels use surface cooling [under the hull bank of radiator tubing] and circulate hot engine cooling water through the surface cooler & attain cooling from the cooler sea water
Seawater temperatures Dubai appear to range from ~~24 to 35 degrees C throughout the year
a. So this appears a little problematic unless you can see the electric motors cooling water jacket being at least 10 degrees C over the water temperature, and then have sufficient flow through the closed loop to take advantage of the heat differential
From your background, I am sure you realise any exotic [expensive] cooling fluids are either water + colour die, or ethylene glycol etc
What type and flow do you have planned for water cooling?
b. Air cooling again through a closed loop radiator would at first appear questionable, with the ambient air temperatures approaching or as high as the fluid in the motor water jacket
c. Brushless motors are available with a dual output shaft [one at either end]......a 20 mm diameter fan in a close-fitting circular trunking wizzing around at 16,000 RPM would appear to be a consideration in blowing ambient air directly over the motors......an alternative to this could be a similar sized fan mounted on each of the motor couplings, however reversed to direct the trunked air back over the motors
[I find the subject interesting as I am considering using 2x 25 mm diameter/square cooling fans to blow air over a small tube radiator with circulating boiler water & so add some preheat to a twin cylinder steam engine to minimise condensate at startup]
Keep us posted with your thoughts & progress
Derek
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Hi Derek,
I considered air cooling but there's not going to be much air flow through the hull without drastically changing the design to allow a thru-flow of air.
You're right on the air/sea temperatures here, also the salinity is off the chart, possibly a byproduct of the desalination plants on the coast pumping as much brine back into the sea as they take out clean water but it's very salty. If i ran the sea water through the motors I'd have to rinse them with de-salt flush after each use and I'm not looking for something high maintenance.My thought was a water tank of approximately 1/2 litre, I could add ice to this if required to keep the water temperature down. No fancy additives are required for the water, as you say they are just dyes to make it look pretty but probably reduce the waters cooling efficiency.
I got the servo tray finished up, I just need a few more nuts to complete it:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51592393680_3410fb45df_h.jpg)
The pushrods line up nicely, I will have to drop the height of the rudder/steering pushrods on the servo arm but thats simple enough to do
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51592393650_d34704817a_h.jpg)
I've a set of new pushrods on their way from Cornwall model boats with the bellows to seal up the holes.
I now need a set of 4mm bullet connectors for the ESC's and break out the soldering iron and then hopefully see if i can get motors turning.
I'll hopefully get an hour of so later today to get some adhesive on the motor mounts, that looks like it will be a 8 stage process, one motor at a time, attach the outside of the feet first, then remove the motor once that's cured and apply the adhesive to the inside of the feet, repeat for motor number two.
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This is a very tidy build James.....
With the salinity so high, coupled with the sea temperature, you may need a pump with a pressure capability as the vessel in still water for any length of time would cause salt build to clog up in small bore tubing!
I have no knowledge in the construction of those anodised aluminium motor water jackets you show...do they have any sophisticated internal porting or are they just a tubular shell with an inlet & and an outlet?......if so, the actual cooling capacity is limited the heat mass transfer of the aluminium as opposed to any secondary internal flow?!
Have you considered any of those copper tubular coils type conductors over thebdiameter of the motor?, that way you eliminate any of the corrosive issue, but again not the clog up
I must admit I had not considered that the Atlantic Challenger would have a waterproof deck to hull with limited breathing
Do you use liquid nitrogen at the Aeroshop?.........you could consider a self-designed cooler complete with a miniature peristaltic pump? %)
Don't you just love word spell...when I typed die :embarrassed:
Derek
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Hi Martin, did you update the photo guide to add for flicr?
Rich
No..... but James seems to have worked it anyway! :-))
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I used Rich's "inspect Q" method to get the jpg link, it's a long winded way of working it but it works. Flickr does give the ability to select the picture size and then gives a UBB code for that size picture, that's how I've worked it on forums in the past, not sure if the "image location" tab above can be adjusted to accept a UBB code?
I'm not so good with computers and software, give me tools and I can build it or fix it but I'm a rabbit in the headlights with computers.
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Hi James321;
I also used to be annoyed with cooling a power source of RC tank.
For instance,in my case the tank was 1/10 scale(actually 67cm long)0.7mm steel made one weighing about 25kgs.
This was powered by OS 2 stroke 45 class nitro engine which was,OF COURSE,enclosed mostly by the steel made hull that
became toooo hot naturally under the violent sunshine in the mid-summer in Tokyo where it became normally around 35degreees C. {:-{ :(( <:( The engine was running in the very narrow and abnormally hot conditions.!! O0 {:-{ :((
I finally came to succeed in running the tank for continuous 30 minutes under such circumstances by water cooling system,
when the fuel tank had been exhausted completely.
The tank was equipped with a water tank of 400cc ,a simple handmade radiator with a primitive fan and a micro pump.
Instead,the brass water tank became hot with a touchable level like a bath water after the running. O0
I added a certain level of a coolant for car at that time.
I thought in those days about 30years ago that water cooling be so effective for severe circumstances such as the above. O0 %)
A running tank in the pic below was taken in the winter.!
Even I once thought to challenge building the Azimut Atlantic Challenger.....
Wishing you a successful work of the superb boat.!!! :-))
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Hi Backerther, impressive tank, 25kg of steel, wow! I looked at an RC helicopter cooling system for electric helicopters, it had a small radiator/heat exchanger with a built in pump and the water jacket for the motor, a very neat design but sadly no longer produced.
I went to my not so local RC store today (1.5 hours round trip) to look for a solution to the cooling problem, the store is geared up mainly for RC planes but it seems that's where I found my answer, I walked out with a 24oz (~700ml) aircraft fuel tank complete with clunk and hose, this should work perfectly as a header tank for the cooling system.
More pictures to come soon, I've been working on the two water pump mounts today, they will live in the stern behind the rear bulkhead, one is a bilge pump with water sensor, the other is the coolant pump for the motors and ESCs.
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Glad my method worked for you, it's only a few mouse clicks at the end of the day.
As for cooling, carrying around freshwater coolant on a model is just plain daft to me. Much better to just use the sea water. Flush it out afterwards like you should do on any boat with an outboard. You'll maybe find you have to pull and strip out the drive shafts and anything exposed anyway like others who run in salt water do?
I don't know what an r/c tank has to do with a model boat sitting in the biggest heat sink possible.
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I posted here my experience of rather heavy and slow RC tank that was mostly enclosed by hot steel hull in the mid-summer,
which conditions were terrible for a 2-stroke glow engine to run the tank.
For this background,I chosen an engine for RC helicopter with a bigger heatsink for the first time in vain. {:-{ :((
Therefor,at this point I gave it up to stick to air cooling with no air flow fundamentally inside the tank mostly enclosed.
I was obliged to go to water cooling at this time as final method to run the tank in the mid-summer and it went very well
consequently. The system was rather troublesome as it needed some auxiliary components to cool the engine ,BUT I found it so effective to cool.!
I intended to put much emphasis on water cooling itself as so effective way to cool,referring to my experience of the RC tank.
Needless to say,it must be the best if salty water could be available for cooling the motor with less maintenance.! O0
1/2;Water cooling with outside water is the best, if it's available,to say nothing of.! :-))
3;If not,water cooling with a fresh water tank in the model is only way for me currently. O0
The pic shows water cooling system adopted in the 1/10 steel electric RC tank weighing over 25kg.
As you may know,a 12V7Ah and a motor are too heavy with no airflow actually,what is worse,it's slow moving tank...
I posted on stunning effectiveness of water cooling regardless of kinds of the RC models from my past experience.
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As for cooling, carrying around freshwater coolant on a model is just plain daft to me. Much better to just use the sea water. Flush it out afterwards like you should do on any boat with an outboard. You'll maybe find you have to pull and strip out the drive shafts and anything exposed anyway like others who run in salt water do?
Agree it does sound nuts but I'm doing this for two reasons; firstly, all that maintenance is exactly what I don't want to be doing. A friend of mine has a full size boat (Yamaha 242 Limited S) and we spend more time removing corrosion and cleaning the thing after use than we spend in the water.
Second reason is weight, remember this boat was designed to be running 4kg of lead acid batteries in the hull, my LiPo's combined weight is 420g so she will be riding way too high which isn't good for a jet propulsion system, I'm going to need ballast to get the boat sitting correctly and if I'm adding ballast I may as well make it useful.
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Sounds sensible to me if you’re running in saltwater.
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James, have you considered a Peltier [heat transfer] cooling cell? %)
https://www.jaycar.com.au/thermoelectric-peltier-module-68-09w/p/ZP9104 (https://www.jaycar.com.au/thermoelectric-peltier-module-68-09w/p/ZP9104)
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwj_tcHAstLzAhUWJCsKHemgAckYABABGgJzZg&ae=2&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESP-D2xY9jDrrSI7u1kC97vV1b2oO0Prcqvh0v6eiWOxJAD_MyzV1_4gO7IUfT_4_v3QIhy7jzaiOYq-8aM-2MLg&sig=AOD64_1rohfbG9wgXcvQUk75hngj0YYJrQ&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwjQq7nAstLzAhVYOSsKHS-dB38Q0Qx6BAgCEAE (https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwj_tcHAstLzAhUWJCsKHemgAckYABABGgJzZg&ae=2&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESP-D2xY9jDrrSI7u1kC97vV1b2oO0Prcqvh0v6eiWOxJAD_MyzV1_4gO7IUfT_4_v3QIhy7jzaiOYq-8aM-2MLg&sig=AOD64_1rohfbG9wgXcvQUk75hngj0YYJrQ&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwjQq7nAstLzAhVYOSsKHS-dB38Q0Qx6BAgCEAE)
Derek
PS...I found the onboard cooling presented by Backerther very interesting in addressing a heat transfer issue in a manner that worked :-))
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Briefly Derek, unfortunately they have a hot side and a cold side so will still produce unwanted heat, they are also quite power hungry devices so it would be more efficient (just) and practical (just) to run a small 6V pump which is slightly less power hungry and will still produce unwanted heat :}
So here's a few pictures of the two pumps installed:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51602987826_c879a7c736_h.jpg)
One of the pumps is the auto bilge, it comes with a sensor that says to locate it slightly above the bottom of the hull, so here's a question for the experience on the forum; the water pickup I would imagine has to be located at what will be the lowest part of the hull so in this case it will be at the aft of the boat but where do you locate the sensor? I don't want the pump to start running the instant any water get in there or it will probably run the pump dry which will mean it doesn't pickup water when it needs to. Whats a sensible height to mount the sensor, I was guessing approximately 1" above the bilge pickup, anyone have experience with these?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51603204173_03417b43a4_h.jpg)
Something like this ?
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Hi James321;
I have my 1/96 HMS Fencer equipped with a bilge pump as seen below as I had encountered a very dangerous and unlucky weather when she was under maiden test run just after memorial launching.!!! {:-{ :((
The weather was becoming windy and rather dangerous for especially slow moving scale ship in the midst of the test, as seen below. And I could not see her well enough to judge that the test should have stopped right away ,as she was running a bit far away from the shore and I was a bit short-sighted.!!
But I at last came to know the draft seemed so deep when she came near the shore and soon took her back the shore for
recovery.!!! The water in the ship was around over one inch or close to two inches high,if I remember correctly.. :((
From this experience,I soon thought bilge pump must be indispensable to equip with and to drain the water whenever the water was sensored regardless of the volume of it.
1;She repeatedly made large pitchings on the rough water like this. >:-o
2;She pitched sometimes like this as if she were torpedoed at stern....a fearful image... :(( 8)
3/4;I installed a bilge pump and a sensor like this as well as water inlets
5;The pump was replaced with more powerful one with 540 motor than original pump in the manufacturer's spec.
6;Test run with a small amount of water to refrain from soaking the work desk. {-) %%
7;The warning lamp on the portside
8/9/10;She is sailing like these after commissioned,with no water ingress around a motor coupling.
Fierce water invasion I have experienced is from the hatch of tiller maintenance hole in the stern where has been already set securely.And I have refrained from running my ship on the rough water except my skippers. {-) O0 %%
The above is my way of setting the bilge pump settled in my slow-moving scale ship,just for your reference.
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Wow, great looking boat! Thanks for sharing your install, I hadn't thought of T-ing and running two clunks for the bilge but that's a good idea, one I will probably employ myself.
This week I purchased a new transmitter from the local Hobby Store, he had a great deal on a Spektrum DX6R which came complete with two receivers, a 6 channel and a 3 channel. Its a wonderful looking transmitter and I was very excited to get it up and running.....and that's where the excitement ended; The first transmitter powered up and all looked good but none of the Spektrums operating software/firmware was installed, I tried for more than enough hours to load the CP Firmware and software but no luck. I phoned the Hobby Store who said to return it (1.5 hours drive). I returned it and he supplied me with another new unit still in the plastic wrapped box, got it home and it wouldn't power up, no issues I thought, it does say the battery may need 20 hours charge so I left it on charge for 24 hours.Next day, still will not power up! Removed the battery, its voltage was good so called the Hobby Store again and again made the 1.5 hour drive to return it. Fast forward 1 hour and 5 brand new out of the box DX6R later and we couldn't get a single unit to power up, the only unit to power up was the one with no firmware loaded. I now understand why these were such a good deal and why Spektrum has pulled the DX6R. The Hobby Store owner has been great and has driven to the warehouse to check the stock he has to see if any will work!
Oh and I contacted Spektrum customer support to see if they had any recommendations or had encountered these issues, their response was "you aren't from the US so contact your hobby store". Ah well, lets see if the shop owner finds a good one, if not I've an aircraft transmitter that I'm sure will work fine.
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Hi James321;
I have beeeen using Japanese made radios regardless of kinds of RC models.!! They are soooo reliable.
I am still using this radio shown below for RC boats and have 4 sets in service still now,though they are toooo old. O0 {-) %%
1;Futaba-made FF7 A super for airplane, but using this as boat transmitter for many years...
2;I am still a RC plane pilot ,though the pic was taken when I was 60. I like US F4-U Corsair.!
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I'm an RC pilot too and a huge fan of war birds, I used to have so many P-51's I got the name Mustang Sally!
I have Spektrum DX10 here so that will work with the boat as an air transmitter, there's no reversing the motors on this boat, the reverse is done through buckets that deploy into the water jet so I'll run that off a channel switch, the rest is simple enough to set up.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4281/35642224451_5cd3bd38d8_c.jpg)
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Boat update:
Installing the motors today so I will be using the same Vuduglue adhesive as the rest of the build, I got a little creative with the motor alignment and used my laser level attached to a small gopro tripod. I used the prop shaft and tube as my reference and aligned the armature of the motor to those using the laser:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51611996092_5fd89a41e3_h.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51611996077_79e45f7961_h.jpg)
This seems to work well to give the horizontal alignment, vertical alignment I've just adjusted the height so the motor mount slides straight onto the coupler.
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Hi, I am a bit lost with your "high power" application but I predict your rubber couplings might give away before your motors get hot for the speed you want. Something is not right about the balance of power or the drive chain there but I am no expert -just putting 2+2 together and not seeing 5.
...also please be aware (Backerther -nothing wrong with Japanese, I think they always made the best radios) someone was reminded on another forum recently, aircraft radio gear is not permitted (rihgtly so) on a surface model here at least. 35MHz gear might well work with a 40Mhz crystal but it is not proven or accepted here by law. 2.4GHz has at least added a more common radio set. Not sure how a scale model of an aircraft carrier applies to this build.
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Hi, I am a bit lost with your "high power" application but I predict your rubber couplings might give away before your motors get hot for the speed you want. Something is not right about the balance of power or the drive chain there but I am no expert -just putting 2+2 together and not seeing 5.
...also please be aware (Backerther -nothing wrong with Japanese, I think they always made the best radios) someone was reminded on another forum recently, aircraft radio gear is not permitted (rihgtly so) on a surface model here at least. 35MHz gear might well work with a 40Mhz crystal but it is not proven or accepted here by law. 2.4GHz has at least added a more common radio set. Not sure how a scale model of an aircraft carrier applies to this build.
Those couplings should be fine. I’ve seen them used on here in high rev applications without issue. More robust than many at high power actually. I’ve got one in my Lesro Javelin that I’m restoring.
The aircraft carrier info was useful for bilge pump setup. I liked it anyway.
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The couplings were listed as Heavy Duty so I thought they would be suitable. I'm not going for any speed records, just scale speed is fine for me, I actually spec'd the motors to be low rpm, well below 20,000rpm anyway so I don't cavitate the impeller.
I've made lots of progress this week so will get some pictures posted up ASAP.
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They are considered by many to be the best type and I have standardised on them.
Chris
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Thanks for the reassurance Chris, I actually spent too much time looking at alternatives and short of using 2 collets and some flex cable, this was the only other real alternative that I thought would withstand the rpm, the extra mass of the aluminium may actually help reduce stress/vibration on the drive (like a small flywheel)?
This week has been battery and ESC trays and a bit of internal structure, I've gone way off plan now but I hope my modifications will add strength/life to the model. Pictures this evening all going well.
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Hi, I am a bit lost with your "high power" application but I predict your rubber couplings might give away before your motors get hot for the speed you want. Something is not right about the balance of power or the drive chain there but I am no expert -just putting 2+2 together and not seeing 5.
...also please be aware (Backerther -nothing wrong with Japanese, I think they always made the best radios) someone was reminded on another forum recently, aircraft radio gear is not permitted (rihgtly so) on a surface model here at least. 35MHz gear might well work with a 40Mhz crystal but it is not proven or accepted here by law. 2.4GHz has at least added a more common radio set. Not sure how a scale model of an aircraft carrier applies to this build.
Hi RST;
I do not care at all.!!
I seem to have made a careless mistake as for permitted frequency by Japanese authorities for airplane purpose.
40.77 Mhz crystal and over are for airplane use. So,I have changed 77 band crystal to 40.75 band for surface use already.
Thanks a lot for your information. O0
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It does look a nice clean build James, something about CF always looks sexy!
....If you cavitate PLEASE let me know. I've been contacting various folk saying they have it but none have ever come back with any evidence. I'm genuinely intrested to hear of it in a small-scale application for a potential paper.
Rich
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A few more updates for this rebuild:
The auto bilge system consists of a water level detector, pump and a few hoses, I considered just using a clunk in the bottom of the hull to be the suction tube but I wasn't happy with it just sloshing around so made a more permanent pickup that I can set just a few mm above the lowest point in the hull
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51618172745_ae1a45e95b_h.jpg)
Next it was attaching the various battery trays and other mounting points needed for my electrics setup:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51641763949_28068da640_c.jpg)
Made good use of the wifes bumbells, I may as well, she never uses them.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51641968700_482e1cca3f_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51640282507_af6f47991a_c.jpg)
With everything installed the hull weight comes in at 2.8kg, I haven't weighed the hull with all the running gear installed but I did a float test in the bath with the water line marked on the hull and I'm looking pretty good its level with the water line just under 2cm above the water, I've still got the deck (which I'm skinning with glass cloth and epoxy and cabin structure to install so it should be close.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51641332633_c0d7afc3a1_c.jpg)
Next part of the build is the external of the hull, its going to need some body filler to get the correct shape as its had some repairs in its previous life that's left a lumpy bumpy surface. I started on the rear guard rail today and made good progress, I'm using 3mm brass tube, I started with 3mm solid brass bar but I think this would have added far too much weight at the stern, the brass tube was less then half the weight:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51641112201_dda5501723_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51641763969_df03943b75_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51640282442_d28329cd90_c.jpg)
It's not 100% accurate of the full scale boat, I made a slight alteration to the center upper support, the full scale boat uses an upper and lower horizontal bar in the center, I've made the upper on an angle like the 2 outboard supports, it should give better protection if (when) I reverse into something, triangles are stronger than squares if I remember my physics.
That's all the updates I have for now, I'll be back with some pictures of the work on the hull.
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Oh and a shameless plug here for a brilliant product, in the last picture I'm using a helping hand for support when soldering, I've had several over the years but this one made by Quadhands is absolutely the best quality I've used, the base plate must weight 3kg of solid plate and the magnets are very strong. I'm in no way connected to those guys but I believe in promoting a product that works.
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I'm back for an update, well truth be told I finished the build but didn't have time to update this thread as I only had limited time on an evening to get work done and I'd rather concentrate on finishing the build while the weather is still nice enough to take the boat out.
So where did I leave off
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873467450_663ad6ec3d_k.jpg)
The rear guard rail was finished up, the messy silver soldering with cleaned with needle file before painting.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873467470_b72180239c_h.jpg)
And here is is installed and painted, it was a real pain to paint this without creating runs on the transom but I got there in the end.
Next up was assembling the flying flying bridge or rear wing, not sure what I would call it (I'm an aircraft guy) The parts I had in the box had been disassembled from a previously assembled kit so lots of old epoxy type resin all over the seams where they had been pulled apart and the lower side of the flying bridge was missing so I would have to make that from plasticard. I assembled a jig to assist in getting the angles right, i used a copy of the plans stuck to some old off cuts of wood to get this right
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51871865592_f69067afc0_h.jpg)
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51872828866_f8a4ae3696_h.jpg)
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Next was the rear hatch, I went off plan here, I didn't see the need for the huge rear hatch and I was actually limited for space due to the carbon struts running the length of the boat which was also an addition not on the original plans. The rest of the hatch construction loosely followed the original design, just scaled down.
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51871865512_d47e2ec2a1_h.jpg)
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51872903523_d3005fdf1a_h.jpg)
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873146854_b079eaea7e_h.jpg)
So I am now at a stage where the deck is ready to go on, say goodbye to the nice looking interior, next time I see you it will be through the hatch but I hope I built enough strength into it
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873146769_0eb238260f_h.jpg)
On went the deck, even with 30 minute epoxy I found I was fast running out of time to get it all on before it started to go tacky
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51872903568_bb7bbdc801_h.jpg)
The deck is 1.5mm marine ply but I will be giving it multiple coats of epoxy to both strengthen and waterproof it, the interior of the deck has 2 coats and a light sanding.
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(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873467255_c3934c2fb4_c.jpg)
It actually looks really nice with the epoxy on the deck, shame its going to covered in paint
Next up is the cabin, looking at pictures of the original boat it didn't have the wrap around windscreen Graupner wanted us to fit from the kit, it has separate screens which were clear glass, not blacked out as you see on a lot of these builds.I got to work with the rotary tool and cut out as best I could to match the original boat
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51872827011_9bdcef15e0_c.jpg)
Its not starting to take shape nicely
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51872903388_400144a18c_c.jpg)
I painted the cabin window surrounds in gloss black and the boat got 3 coats of VW Candy white. I've looked at the boats in the marina here in Dubai, none of them are bright white, they all seem to be a shade off white so I went with this VW colour as its a nice just off white shade
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873146664_890ca0d43a_c.jpg)
With the exterior almost done and now that I'd cut out the windows, the interior looked completely empty. I tried to find pictures of the original boats interior but the internet has very limited history on this boat, I ended up with a picture of Virgin Atlantic Challengers cockpit as a rough guide to make something
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873144964_a3e5994e9d_c.jpg)
I roughed up something that looked similar....ish
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51872828286_d987c9c7a5_h.jpg)
Its not so accurate but looks ok through the windows of the boat
A little bit of detail on the rear deck life rafts
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873145974_a1c83bb5f7_c.jpg)
And then it was time for all the decals, I ordered a replacement set from tailormade decals as the originals had a white background on them that would have clashed with the candy white paint
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873146019_aee5c86f8c_h.jpg)
Needed to test it sits ok in the water, I marked the water line as per the plan but my build is so far off plan inside the deck that nothing followed, I did take the weights of everything into account though and it seems to have paid off
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873465750_b5bb607591_h.jpg)
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873145264_b0375637d5_h.jpg)
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51873145264_b0375637d5_h.jpg)
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And the finished boat.
This was my first attempt at a boat build, its something I purchased to play with in the swimming pool with my little boy but underestimated both its scale and the amount of work needed to restore a 20+ year old previously build and stripped down kit with a lot of parts needing rebuilding from scratch.I've thoroughly enjoyed the build, I've only been able to dedicate an hour or so per evening to work on it, its been a challenge and a test of skills and it doesn't end here as you'll see in the next post but it's been great fun.
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51884251312_2bb3a713b7_h.jpg)
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51885298528_8064432f2f_c.jpg)
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51885541229_856135e03b_h.jpg)
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51885298493_781c7b5e43_h.jpg)
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Fantastic work. Very tidy inside and out. Any footage of it running yet?
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Hi Stu, thank you! There aren't many of these kits left unbuilt so I wanted to do it justice as one of the last of its kind.
I took it for its maiden in the swimming pool and almost immediately ran into a a few issues:
1. The turning circle was very poor! The jet drives have buckets which lower down for reverse, these buckets were restricting the left right movement of the rear nozzle so really restricting the rate of turn, more on those buckets to follow.
2. 20+ year old plastic- this kit and the parts that came with it, although all new parts still in the Graupner bags were still 20+ year old plastic, when I tried to use the reverse, I selected the reverse from a switch I'd assigned on my transmitter, both buckets deployed slowly as programmed and I applied some throttle (not much), I noticed both buckets then looked to be touching in the middle, pulled together, this didn't look right so I brought her back in to examine what was happening. Both nozzles had torn out of the rear of the jet drive, it does seem a weak point anyway, a 2.5mm screw is all that holds the nozzles in place going through thin (old) plastic with only around 3mm land before the edge of the nozzle, it just tore clean out, upper and lower on both jet drives.
So, I've binned the reverse system, it wasn't robust enough for the amount of water being pushed through them and I will look at a redesign of those in the future. Binning the reverse meant I could increase the steering by 50% and I've made an aluminium sleeve to fit over the end of the jet drive to beef up the nozzle hinge point. I had another test run in the pool last night and she now literally turns on a sixpence! I really don't think I will need a reverse but let's see, I will still work on a better design anyway as it's part of the boat but I much prefer to have this amount of control and steering over a reverse.
I didn't get chance to take any video footage of her running and I certainly didn't get change to open the taps and get her moving, I got her to the point just before getting on plane before I had to back off. I'm going to take her down to the marina and get some video, I just need to make a little trolley for moving her around as it's 10kg with all the batteries installed. I'll be back soon with some running shots.
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Ah. Yes old plastic not up to the job! Well she looks absolutely fantastic and you definitely look like a perfectionist with regard to the layout inside. Looking forward to seeing some footage when you get a chance.
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Hi,
Only just noticed this thread - I believe you actually bought this one from me :}
Glad to see you did the build justice,
here's one of my boats on the water...
(https://i.imgur.com/RF5tb68.jpg)
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I guess I better update my thread soon as I'm at the completion stages of my 1.85m long project valkyrie, she did over 100mph a few days ago