Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: DJW on November 09, 2021, 09:05:52 pm
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Hi All
I'm really enjoying the build process of my Amati Riva Aquarama, it's so rewarding to see the classic beauty of the boat emerge from the component parts. And so starting to consider what comes next, maybe the title of the post gives that away...
I'm learning a lot about the 1/10 scale Aquarama build and quite like the idea of doing it again, improving my implementation in several areas, and taking on the general challenges of scaling up. I'm thinking that the plans I have can be generally scaled up, with some thought given to materials and hardware.
The 1/10 scale is my first real build for 30 years, so I'd welcome some input as I start to plan out how to approach the project. I have acquired tools, materials, contacts and techniques that should carry over nicely into the larger version, but would be grateful for comments on some initial planning thoughts. I have nothing yet in terms of specific materials or hardware, so all up for consideration.
Construction would I think stay quite faithful to the 1/10 build with suitable scaling of materials.
My current build is 860mm loa, and a beam of 270mm at the widest point. Weight is currently 4.0kg and will end up close to 4.5kg I think. A doubling of those dimensions would make the new build around 1700mm loa and a beam of 540mm. First question, how to estimate the target weight...? It's not a doubling, should I assume around 3x as a guide..? That would make a target weight around 12 - 15kg, is that a reasonable assumption..?
Then the running hardware. Looking at other builds at this sort of size, a pair of brushless outrunners, say the Overlander / Surpass 5055 model feels about right. 1550w, so around 2hp each, 570kv and can handle up to 24v and have a 65A max rating. So running them on say 5S lipos would spin them at around 10,000 rpm. I'm running FrSky and really like the Neuron 40S ESCs on my current build, I'd like to go with the 80S versions on the new build, they handle 80A, 120A burst so seem about right. An overall 4hp seems a lot to me... But I'd be happy to restrict the top end power or play with the LiPo voltage rather than end up with anything under powered.
I'm thinking 5mm exposed propshafts, I'll make up the tubes and P brackets. No idea what props these motors would optimally drive... Any comments gratefully received. I'd want to use Prop Shop units, so maybe I should ask Simon what he thinks once I've arrived at the correct power and RPM targets.
What do we think...?
David.
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Hi David
My first thoughts were if I'd made such a lovely build already of a Riva I wouldn't want to do another one, but that's just me!
But having thought some more I can see where you're coming from. You've learnt a great deal from your first build and know where you want to do things differently. Having already done it is really the only way to highlight "improvements" though I think most of us would be more than happy with your 1:10 version.
Your reasoning on upsizing all sounds pretty good to me. Have you made a list of things you want to do differently and possible ways of achieving them? One thing I can think of is that reducing weight can be considered at the design stage rather than during the build.
Obviously UKMike will as usual be an excellent source of information and be able to offer constructive advice given his experience of building a bigger Riva.
Again, I will look forward to the build.
Chris
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You may be able to extract some information from this site. I am not certain if they are still active.
http://www.exclusive-shipmodel-shop.de/Riva-Aquarama (http://www.exclusive-shipmodel-shop.de/Riva-Aquarama)
or
http://classicrunabouts.de/ (http://classicrunabouts.de/)
and their FB page https://www.facebook.com/BAE-Schiffsmodellbau-322562321265360/photos/?ref=page_internal (https://www.facebook.com/BAE-Schiffsmodellbau-322562321265360/photos/?ref=page_internal)
and also https://modellboote-mahagoni.de/riva.html (https://modellboote-mahagoni.de/riva.html)
or
https://modellboote-mahagoni.de/riva2.html
They quote 1/6 as being 137 cm x 43 cm - they produced some awesome fittings ($$$)
I have in my fleet one of the models featured in their FB pages "ROCKET" - a beauty
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/08/07/IMG_0550.jpg)
Regards
C-3PO
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Very nice!
Had a look at your first link - you could soon tot up some serious expense!
Chris
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Morning Both
Thanks for the comments, some great information in those links 3PO, I hadn't seen them before...
@Chris, you're right. I think that building the same boat again allows the benefit of hindsight, how it should have been done in the first place. As you point out, weight is a major one of those things. I now know that so much can be taken out of the frames, a lot of the wood is overkill once the planks are on and the hull shape achieved. The bow is a particular issue as its pretty much inaccessible once the first frames are installed. I know that a better engine / shaft arrangement can be arrived at that runs quieter. Most of all I have just run out of room on the 1/10th everything is constrained by the space available. If I want to take out the Rx, almost everything else has to come out first. I enjoy the electronics side, I know I can improve the sound system. I'd like to integrate the vapour system in the 1/10th, but have run out of room...
And in terms of cost... It would be a lengthy project I think, so a spread cost. And I've probably spent 3x more on tools than the cost of the 1/10 Riva kit, so would be good to give the tools a bit of a workout..! And thinking about it, I've binned a lot of the kit fittings to make up my own, practice for the next one... UKMike has indeed led the way with techniques and fabricating Aquarama hardware.
@C-3PO, the links to the German sites are very interesting indeed, some techniques there that I've not seen. Interesting discussion of materials and running hardware used. I like the method of creating the padding effect on the upholstery, will be looking at that for the 1/10 upholstery. Interesting motor mounts too.
And love the 'Rocket'..!
Best regards
David.
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Hi David,
I will follow your "large scale" Aquarama project with interest.
Somewhere I have plans for a large scale model - I will dig them out and post an update.
My Rocket is currently in dry dock undergoing some upgrades and an installation of a "full on" sound system :)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/11/10/IMG_1587.jpg)
Regards
C-3PO
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I'd check on your weight calculation. It's based on the cube of the scale so if the 1/1 Riva weighs 4000kg, then the 1/10 model comes in at 4000/10x10x10 = 4kg BUT at 1/5 it's 4000/5x5x5 = 32kg. ok2
The general dry weight of the real Aquarama Riva is about 3000kg, so it might be worth aiming at 3000/5x5x5 = 24kg
Have fun!Tony
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If you would rather skip the hull build then MHZ have a 1485mm Riva just waiting for a fitting out and paint job :-
https://www.mhz-powerboats.com/shop/en/hulls/mono-hulls/l-1800-mm/257/riva-modellboat-1485mm-58-46-gfk?c=56
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Evening All
More very interesting points raised. I didn't realise that was the calculation for scale weight. 24kg sounds pretty heavy to me, but I guess it's important to try not to go over it, then if it needs ballast to get the correct waterline. Well that's fine.
The GRP version of the hull is interesting, and at 1.4m it's substantial. But I think the Aquarama is all about the woodwork, and finish. I enjoyed the hull taking shape from it's component parts...
Regards to all.
David.
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At least you're going in the right direction David! It can get a bit scary if you're going the other way so, using the same numbers, 1/20 gives a displacement of 4000 / 20x20x20 = 0.5Kg {:-{
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I think and feel so fundamentally about the way of thinking though I'm not sure... {:-{ ?
4kgx1/2x1/2x1/2=0.5kg...1/20 scale
4kgx2x2x2=32kg.............1/5 scale
If 1/10 model is 4kg....??? {:-{ ?
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If the actual boat weighs 4 metric tons i.e. 4000 Kg, then if the scale is 1:10 the target weight for the model should be 4000 divided by 10x10x10 i.e. 4000/1000 = 4KgIf the scale is 1:5 then the target weight should be 4000 Kg divided by 5x5x5 i.e.4000/125 = 32KgIf the scale is 1:20 then the target weight should be 4000Kg divided by 20x20x20 i.e. 4000/8000 = 0.5Kg
If you're changing scales, then I find it's best to work back to the actual weight of the boat because it's less prone to error. You can work back, of course, but it's always going to be working with the cube so going from 1:20 to 1:10 you're doubling the scale so in this case your target weight is 0.5 x (2x2x2) = 0.5x8 = 4Kg 0r from 1:10 to 1:5 you're doubling again so it's 4 x (2x2x2) = 4x8 = 32Kg
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Afternoon All
Having realised there's more to scaling than I'd initially appreciated, I've taken on board the comments with respect to weight and done some more digging. As a sanity check I'd appreciate comments on the following approximations for scale speed and power.
I'm running same calculations for my 1/10 build of the Aquarama as a check that the right numbers come out, which generally they seem to.
Firstly Speed. I've looked at two approaches, what the scale speed should be, and then what it would take in terms of propeller pitch and shaft RPM to get to that kind of speed.
I saw this scale speed formula in March 2021 Model Boats, so for 1/10 its:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/02/10th-speed-est2.jpg)
And my current 1/10 build is set up like this:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/02/10th-speed-est.jpg)
So that's a scale speed of 23.4km/h and a real world that's at best 20.86, but a bit less with some slip. And that feels about right, I'll get some hard numbers from the GPS on next outing...
For the 1/5 same calculations look like this:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/02/5th-speed-est2.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/02/5th-speed-est.jpg)
So that's a scale speed of 33 km/h, and a combination of shaft speed and pitch that gets close to 33 km/h too, depending on real world slip...
I worked on a ratio of 1.2 for pitch to diameter on the prop which I think is quit conservative in terms of motor loading.
And then on a second related point, what power would one anticipate is needed to get to the scale speed, given scale size and weight, and to turn that size of prop at that shaft speed...
Seems the power calculation is quite straightforward and involves cubes again, so firstly for the 1/10th build. Its the full size power in HP (700), divided by the scale cubed (10x10x10 or 1000), so that's 0.7hp which is about 520 watts. My build actually has 2 x 340w (so 680w in total) motors, which on the face of it would appear to be slightly overpowered. I think they reach max rpm with ease, so basically aren't fully loaded and could take courser pitch props if I felt the need, which I don't.
Same calculation with the 1/5th goes like this. Full size power (700), divided by the scale cubed (5x5x5 or 125), and that's 5.6hp... Which is just over 4,100 watts. So that implies 2 x 2,000w ish motors are required to reach scale speed of 33 km/h.
And my feeling right now is A) that's a lot of power, and B) I think a 1/5th scale can be built at a lower weight than the 'scale' 32kg allowance. And that weight saving can be trade off against the predicted power requirement. So I'm inclined to look at 2 x 1,600 w motors and accept a real world speed a shade lower than true scale. But still quite perky I think.
Does this all sound realistic..?
Regards to all.
David.
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All looks good to me David. Yes, the power for the 1:5 build does seem a lot but the faster you go the more power you need and I think that your approach to accept a lower top speed using less power is sensible, and I wouldn't be surprised if the top speed isn't far off in reality.
How often are full sized boats run at top speed anyway and 700hp is a lot! I bet that "even" with 500hp it would go well!
And you have the advantage of your passengers weighing a lot less pro rota!
As long as it gets onto the plane easily and is quite brisk it should all be good.
Chris
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Hi Chris
Thanks, and agreed re top end speed. Its proving interesting to scope out a project like this. Just trying to get all the main components in the right ballpark in terms of functionality, but then also establishing what the financial outlay may need to be...
Best regards
David.
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Well the DPD guy has just delivered a pair of these bad boys from Overlander...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/07/20211207_112853-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/07/20211207_112931-Custom.jpg)
Decided to go with the Overlander brand versions as I had great tech support from them earlier this year when they sent out test ESCs to troubleshoot problems I was having.
Going to need to build a hull to put them in now...
I wanted the motors early so I can start looking at building the motor mounts, so I know what mods to make to the hull frames when the time comes.
Best regards
David.
(Just over 2hp each..! But I think the reference to 16 inch props is a bit optimistic... %) [size=78%] )[/size]
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I think they mean a 16 inch airplane prop :-))
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Hey Russell
I think you might be right..!
David.
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Nice David.
I use Overlander in all my builds. The biggest I've gone upto though is a 42 diameter in my Swordsman. Those really are bad boys!
The kv is pretty low, will you be gearing them up to give sufficient revs?
Chris
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Will you need the revs? If you end up close to the 60lb weight to get down to the theoretical waterline wouldn't the torque be more important, after all with a pair of coarse 2.5 inch handed props and potentially 7000 revs.........?
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Yeah, I usually reckon on around 10k. rpm for good planing performance but that's with normal sized boats! :-)
With bigger, coarser props the required performance could well be achieved. Obviously 6S will be required to give 7k. rather than 8S for 10k. without gearing.
What revs were you achieving with the 1:10 David out of interest?
Chris
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At this stage I'm thinking that I'd rather prop up for the 7k rpm / 6S configuration. I think a conversation with Simon at the Prop Shop would be in order before making decisions. I'd rather have the power delivered at lower rpm and use the torque of these motors, I've been looking at 8,000mAh 6S Turnigy graphene lipos. I guess the option would remain to go for 8S if the revs just aren't there... But ideally not. No gearing planned, but I do want to look at isolating the motors, so will be looking at mounting options.
The 1/10 build motors are spinning at 12k at full speed, and drawing less than 10A when doing that during testing, so not fully loaded. (Say 12v at 10A gives 120w, they are 340w motors.) That current might go up as the final weight goes up and I have set of coarser pitch props to try. These motors are on 3:2 reduction gearing (belts) so shafts are running at 8k.
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Part of the trouble is that, apart from the Lambo powered monsters, the standard and apparently unreliable Riva motors were petrol but they were often replaced with diesels, so the power profiles were totally different. The Yanmar diesels were rated to 3800rpm it seems but what was the gearing? If it was 2:1 then you're spot on. The Riva Crusader 270hp, for example, was allegedly a small-block Chevy, some of which used 1.9:1 gearing which revved to????It's an interesting problem you're facing and I suppose you'll only find out whether it's a gentlemans' runabout or a cads' speedster when you first sail it!
Nice one David :-))
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......"isolating the motors" ...... David, if these T5065/08 were designed primarily for aero applications, it may be worth understanding how or what type of mounting is used in these cases
Do these [non brushed] motors have absolutely equal characteristics with alternate [or opposite] rotation?.....do these motors have an internal thrust load bearing?
To have 2 x 2HP acting as gyros <*< , may need absolute security of mounting and let the aero frame absorb the effects, so you could consider a similar concept %)
The other question is how to harness the near-instantaneous torque of a 1600W motor on a 6.0 diameter shaft, both at the motor, and also the propeller.....[tapered bushes {courtesy of George - ooyah/2} come into mind here, although I have not seen them applied to miniature electric applications ]
Derek
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David........following and attached is detail from Translock........
Stainless steel M6 bore tapered locking bushes.......if you go back to the Minilock TRMINI6x16 [carbon steel] shows transmission torque values
Two of these back to back as a solid attachment between the motor & propeller shaft, with a 3rd tapered bush in the hub of the propeller %)
https://www.transdev.co.uk/hardware/bushes/translock-bushes/translock-stainless-steel-bushes/ (https://www.transdev.co.uk/hardware/bushes/translock-bushes/translock-stainless-steel-bushes/)
Derek
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Morning All
@Tony, I didn't know that the Aquaramas were sometimes rebuilt with diesels, part of the ownership would be the throbbing V8 sound I'd have thought..! But I think marine gearboxes are always reduction ratios aimed at slowing the shaft. To be honest I've not looked into that for the full sized boat.
@Derek, interesting points raised. I'm not assuming any thrust bearings in the motors as far as my use is concerned. Having said that I guess in their aero role the motors do have to take the full lifting force on their shafts so must have some capability...
The standard mount is the 'X' plate:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/08/20211208_100020-Custom.jpg)
I intend to create a similar 'spreader' solution from aluminium plate, and incorporate water cooling channels.
My current thought is then to use some 7mm walled Aluminium channel (I use this in other work) with the motor mounted via 4 bobbins on one end, and the prop tube rigidly mounted at the other end (black pen in pic below). And a solid coupling in between, the motors have a 6mm shaft, and I'd use 6mm prop shafts. The base of the channel then becomes the mounting surface to the hull.
The bobbin mounts will have 'cups' of either aluminium or nylon around them to reduce torque induced movement, so they just eliminate solid mounting to the hull, but don't allow the motors to move. In this kind of arrangement:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/08/20211208_100147-Custom07c1ba4054bbd571.jpg)
I may look at not having a prop tube top bearing, just a seal... Using the motor as the top bearing with a solid coupling, so they don't fight each other... (There's a thread on this in R&D section.)
This then gives two options for taking the thrust.
A suitably mounted / integrated P bracket, or the motor mount (left side in pic above) using a more conventional thrust bearing.
In terms of the potentially brutal power of these motors, I agree it could get catastrophic... I'm planning to use the 80A Neuron ESCs from FrSky, these can be programmed to deliver super smooth acceleration, even if the users stick input is less than smooth. I'm using the 40A versions on my 1/10th and have arrived at very smooth low speed handling and acceleration.
The Translock system looks very elegant, more so than the usual collars with a grub screw, thanks for the link. I'll try to find some and report back.
Thanks for comments, and best regards to all.
David.
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Hi David,
I thought that was the case but this is one original.
Riva Aquarama Special #768This beautiful example of Aquarama Special is one of the last manufactured by Cantieri Riva, in 1992. The vessel was commissioned by one of Riva’s customers to be pre-owned as a support on a large yacht in Britain. The peculiarity that makes this model of motor vessel unique is the fact that freshly Riva provisioned it with 380 HP Diesel Hydro Force engines, later replaced with gasoline 350 HP Thermo Electron engines.Interesting fact: the fresh Diesel engines are available with the vessel. (Part of the sales blurb)
It would seem that the petrol ones were almost all direct drive, while with the diesels, the revs were upped by approx 2:1.
Are your engines mounted independently, or are you putting both on a single transverse mount to reduce the torque effect on the hull?
Tony
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Hi Tony
That is interesting indeed. I suppose the lower revving diesel, but with higher torque could handle the increased gearing and get back to 'normal' prop and shaft rpm.
I like the idea of making the motor mounts in one piece but it may become a bit difficult to machine in my small lathe / milling machine. However I do think it would be useful to have an aluminium bridging plate / structure that can be removed. I can then make up the components as smaller pieces using the bridging support to brace the two mounts together for installation / alignment, and then also to spread the forces from the motors.
Best regards
David.
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Hi Dave,
This is the way I fitted the motors in my Jackie S which is only 1/12 coming in at about 6lbs so built relatively lightly. The standard X mounts for the motors are fitted through a piece of 1.2mm roofing rubber straight onto a 1/4 inch ply frame as part of the structure. It's also reinforced with a spare bit of 1x1. I cut the holes through the ply so I can get access directly onto the screws that hold the motor onto the mount. You've got so much spare displacement available at 1/5 that you could almost make yours out of mild steel!
Tony
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Hi Tony
I've been thinking more about the single mount for the two motors and I think it can and should be done. Thanks for highlighting it at this stage..!
In other news I'm having some trouble getting the plans taken up from 1/10 to 1/5. I've tried a couple of local copy shops that can print to A0. But even folded once the 1/10 plans are 500mm x 700mm. So taking that up to twice the size exceeds A0.
My plan B is to set up a camera over the 1/10 plans, put a pencil grid say 100mm x 100mm over the plans. Then get the grids to 200mm x 200mm in Photoshop, print tiled output to A3 and tape em together...
But I'd be really happy to hear there's an easier way...
Regards to all.
David.
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I think I have an alternative way to scale.
I use PhotoShop in the real world, so have tried using the Pen tool to trace an outline from a picture of the 1/10 plans. The results look OK...
This is the outline of a part:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/11/PenTool-Custom.jpg)
And this outline can then be pasted onto an A4 sized document:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/11/PenTool2-Custom.jpg)
And scaled:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/11/PenTool3-Custom.jpg)
Larger parts would have to go onto A3 and or be tiled on multiple sheets. I quite like this approach for a couple of reasons:
1. Symmetric parts can just be mirrored, saving tracing time and ensuring symmetry.
2. Some mods will need to be made, around the motor bay for example, and also I like the modified chines on the 1/10 build, so I can edit the frames in PhotoShop.
Bit laborious, but it can work I think. Anyone tried this approach, if so how did it work out..?
Best regards to all.
David.
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Hi David this is one epic build that you are on :-))
Making plans larger is not an easy task and I think that your approach maybe the best way. I have tried to upscale and even just copy large plans at the printers and it never seems to come out exactly to scale. They always seem to stretch a bit going through either the scanner or printer and this has caused me many problems on my current build.
Good luck mate I'm sure its going to be beautiful O0
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Hi David
I use a similar approach to producing my drawings albeit at 1:12. I use Microsoft Visio and trace PDF's of the drawings, either obtained as PDF's or scanned, and then modify them to suit my needs. Once traced I can print out at any scale I like and as you say join A3 prints together. To ensure accuracy I enclose parts in rectangles so that I can align them. For producing frames/bulkheads I draw half, mirror them and join together. I use Lightroom for my photography but not Photoshop so can't really comment on it's suitability.
CAD would be a better program but it takes some learning. I bought TurboCAD but have only scratched the surface with learning it. Visio isn't the best program for drawing but I used to use it at work so can get good results from it.
Chris
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Morning Both
Thanks for the comments and encouragement. I like the idea of using rectangles on the tiled prints to get good alignment. I've used Photoshop for years. But never the pen tool. That seems to unlock very smooth curves, and given the start and end point of the curve its possible to manipulate the curve to fit what's being traced.
I'm thinking that although it's laborious, it doesn't all need to be done at once. So initially keel and frames, then as required. And then if mods are needed on the way they can be incorporated.
An epic build... We'll see. Its going to be a challenge for sure. I'm still finishing the 1/10 build and plan / hope to have it ready to run for spring 22, hoping to take it to a few open days and meet up in the real world..!
So now its a case of scoping out how best to approach a 1/5, start to fabricate and acquire some of the core parts that the hull will need to accommodate, I'm thinking the drive train. Then build them so I have them on hand to start the hull.
Best regards
David.
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David
That's also the approach I take. Rather than draw everything up at once I draw up enough to start building, as you say keel and frames first and then draw up the other parts as I go along.
Whilst I enjoy the drawing it can get a bit laborious especially if you want to get building! It also has the benefit that you can take actual measurements of what you have built so far, in my case for fitting the superstructure.
Certainly is going to be an epic build!
Chris
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Afternoon All
Continuing to acquire parts and researching hardware to be used. I've been very impressed with the TCS Micropumps, very efficient, I have the M200 version in my 1/10 build. I was looking at a suitable version for the 1/5th and found a brand new still in its box M400S on eBay at £35.00, a bit better than the eye watering £90.00 rrp... Its a 34g brushless pump that circulates up to 2.6 litres / min through 6mm dia connectors, runs up to 12v, consumes just over 7w and interestingly its speed can be controlled with a PWM signal. I doubt it'll just hook up to a receiver, but via an arduino it will allow increased circulation based on ESC or motor temps, rpm or whatever.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/21/20211221_132749-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2021/12/21/20211221_132740-Custom.jpg)
https://micropumps.co.uk/TCSM400range.htm (https://micropumps.co.uk/TCSM400range.htm)
I have some 9mm id brass for the prop tubes and have been looking at this material to create some bearings for the P Brackets and maybe where the prop tubes exits the hull.
https://www.igus.co.uk/product/539?artNr=SFRX-1000 (https://www.igus.co.uk/product/539?artNr=SFRX-1000)
Its machinable, so could create conventional and flanged bearings plus thrust washers at whatever size an length required. This time I'd be on a mission not to use ball race bearings in the drivetrain.
Best regards to all.
David.
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One of the best things about building big - is you can put whatever you want inside it. That pump looks very well made.
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Afternoon All
Main focus is trying to get my 1/10 Aquarama build finished, but also giving thought to the 1/5th...
I've found that I can play with 3D printed parts to iterate towards a suitable mount for the motors and shafts. (3D printer, new toy for Christmas...)
So useful to be able to test a part, then improve it, get all the dimensions correct before committing to aluminium, here's the first result, a couple of parts to hold the motor using M6 bobbin mounts:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/21/20220121_170036-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/21/20220121_170023-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/21/20220121_170029-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/21/20220121_170113-Custom.jpg)
The threads protruding from the bobbin mounts will have another plate attached, the two plates will have channels machined out to make up a water cooled plate once fabricated in aluminium.
And playing with a printed fan blade too...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/21/20220121_172346-Custom.jpg)
Best regards to all
David.
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Nice work!
I do the same with 3D printed parts on my Riva build!Dual motor mount prototype:
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/19/IMG_5925w.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/fGP99)
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Lads - Wow I think those motors would happily pump a large central heating system let alone a boat. Keep the updates coming :-))
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@Thor. That's a beautiful mount and gearbox. Really looks the part. Will you run with the printed version or build in aluminium..? Looks substantial enough to go with the printed version. Those inrunners look pretty fast. Are you gearing down..? You'll get a really low shaft angle with that design, really nice. I'll be making the 1/5 mount as a single unit too. Really helps with alignment and rigidity I think. Hope you set up a full build log. Looking great from what I see.
@ Mark.... yes... quite a bit of power to deal with and all being well tame...
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Evening All
Printer has been busy this week with an update to the motor mounts, I think these are getting close to whats required in terms of design.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/28/20220128_173815_resized-Custom.jpg)
I'm not sure yet whether the two mounts will be fabricated in Aluminium as one unit, or use a temporary or permanent 'bridge' to join the mounts. Aim is to ensure alignment during installation, then to provide a rigid structure during use, each motor is 2.2hp... Issue will be machining in a single piece, it will be quite large for my lathe / mill. Distance between shafts is around 170mm.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/28/20220128_173831_resized-Custom.jpg)
Plan is to have the left side of the mount (above) take the shaft thrust and transfer it to the motor mount using a couple of thrust bearings. Double thickness mount plate is size mockup of cooling plate.
The last pic shows the Aluminium channel that I plan to use once the final design is arrived at:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/01/28/20220128_174519_resized-Custom.jpg)
In other news, 2 x 80A FrSky ESCs plus an FrSky 8 channel Rx arrive next week. Props have been ordered from Prop Shop, 2 x 3033 3 blade units (76.2mm diameter x 83.8mm pitch) and 2 x 600mm x 5mm shafts, but I suspect they're a few weeks away. That prop size is available in a 5 blade config too, so I'm thinking if I need more bite I can move up to the 5 blade units without changing the diameter.
Various other seals and drivetrain parts due in too. I'm looking at SLEC for the wood, once I have the list together I think a trip to collect will be in order. Been upgrading my Proxxon bandsaw by fitting a fence, had to make one, why doesn't anyone sell one to fit..?
Best regards to all.
David.
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Afternoon All
Bit of a pause on the 1/10 build waiting for some materials, so some 1/5 progress.
Taken delivery of the two FrSky 80A ESCs, the level of control is exceptional, and the telemetry...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/09/20220201_175718-Custom.jpg)
And have been working on the designs for the motor mounts and thrust bearings, so just in plastic for the time being:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/09/20220201_175832-Custom.jpg)
And state of play at the moment:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/09/20220206_120001-Custom.jpg)
Acquiring the materials to translate the mounts to aluminium, also the prop tube in brass.
And started to look at the build slip, it needs to be about 1.7m in length and is made from 40mm extrusion. 3D printed brackets for supporting the keel, and a sweep up of support for the bow, should give a good firm and accurate basis to build from. I'm hoping that using the extrusion will allow supports to be added / moved for the frames as they go in.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/09/20220209_170652-Custom.jpg)
And for some perspective, the 1/10 build alongside...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/09/20220209_170730-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/09/20220209_170520-Custom.jpg)
Just waiting for the wife to realise what 1/5 scale actually means...
Best regards to all.
David.
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Evening David....."just in plastic for the time being" ........
Just wondering, with the strength of engineering plastics of today, are there any studies that confirm 'thermally deposited - printed structures' of aluminium are of superior strength to the engineering plastics?
I ask this, as from a design perspective, most if not all areas of critical stress can be eliminated or compensated by the design, so by the printing process irrespective of the medium being printed?
The printed plastic motor mounts you show appear to be extremely robust. >>:-( ...or am I missing something?
Derek
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Hi Derek
An interesting thought. I've not considered the printed parts as the final hardware. Just a way to get the design right. The printed parts could have fillets added to give more rigidity, and the infill increased, these versions are not solid. This could well make them viable as mounts. There is the issue of heat from the motor. Aluminium will conduct that heat away. Plastic will not.
I think for this build with 1600w motors I would not be brave enough to trust the Plastic versions. I do have a rebuild of a robbe fireboat on the to do list, this will be a perfect test for 3d printed parts, including mounts.
I've only been playing with the 3d printer for a month or so. Very impressed so far.
Best regards
David.
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Hi David,
A question you might be able to answer. I have just been out with the boat and lost a propeller, high water and clipped it on the jetty! Partly my fault as originally I fitted 30mm brass props then tried a 35mm in plastic to see if it would fit. A close shave but yes, anyway having lost the prop this afternoon I need to replace with 35mm brass. Where and what do you recommend?
Thanks for any advice Paul.
Love the 3D printing.
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Hi Paul
Ouch... Sorry to hear about the loss of the prop...
I'm using props and shafts from
https://www.prop-shop.co.uk/ (https://www.prop-shop.co.uk/)
These are cast props, nicely balanced.
On my 1/10 I have a set of 'Standard Scale' 1415 bronze props. That's diameter x pitch in inches, so the 1415 props are around 35.6mm diameter. I have pushed this to 1517 units to get a bit more bite as the motors were not loading up on the 1415s, but I'm running 370w brushless motors.
On the subject of props... It just so happens that the new props and 600mm x 5mm shafts for my 1/5 arrived this morning, and they're beautiful..!
These are new 'Standard Scale' units from Simon at the Prop Shop at 70mm diameter, so around 2.75 inches with a 3 inch pitch.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/25/20220225_160140-Custom.jpg)
And for scale, a standard servo:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/25/20220225_160058-Custom.jpg)
Best regards
David.
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Thankyou for the advice, nice looking new props!
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Hi David - any chance you could point me in the right direction for those 40mm aluminium extrusions? I've been seeing quite a few builders using this stuff and I have an idea regarding a building rig for it. Cheers Mark
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Evening Mark
I use HepcoMotion for the extrusions and fittings.
https://www.hepcomotion.com/product/aluminium-profile-construction-system/mcs-aluminium-profiles/ (https://www.hepcomotion.com/product/aluminium-profile-construction-system/mcs-aluminium-profiles/)
I needed their extrusions and bearings for a commercial photography project a couple of years ago and had some spare for modelling. It's precise and rigid. They will cut it to size if required too, otherwise it needs a serious mitre saw to get an accurate cut.
Best regards
David.
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Afternoon All
My method for this build will be similar to my approach for the 1/10 Aquarama in that I'm getting together the parts and intend to build the subsystems before building the hull. Aim being to work out the hardware fit of these subsystems before cutting too much wood.
Todays delivery is a couple of PAM8610 stereo amplifiers, each will be controlled by an Arduino playing an Aquarama V8 sound file, one system for each motor. Each can drive 2 x 15w speakers, so I'll be adding a 15w speaker and 15w audio exciter. Aim is to hear one 'motor' start and stabilise, then a pause for the second to start and stabilise. Then I'm thinking to add a slight timing mismatch between the two systems and hope is that they will then come into and drop out of resonance when under way, in the same way full sized twin V8s do...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/28/20220228_092413-Custom.jpg)
On same system, to give an impression of 'cranking' during the start phase, this is a 200rpm 12v motor, I'm going to add an offset mass (brass), secure it firmly to the hull and power it up during the 'startup' sound phase of the sound system... If I get it right the hull will vibrate as the engine startup sound is active.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/02/28/20220228_092129-Custom.jpg)
That's the plan...
Best regards to all.
David.
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This looks to be an exciting project, look forward to following your developments. :-))
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Evening All
Now have the speakers that I plan to use on the build. Each motor will have a conventional 3 inch speaker, plus an Audio Exciter. Similar to but more powerful than in my 1/10 build.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/05/PSX_20220305_180641.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/03/05/PSX_20220305_180655.jpg)
Next job is to get a set connected up to Arduino and amplifier to see what kind of sound is generated.
Regards to all
David.
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Now this looks great. I was reading about Arduino, looks complex so will follow with interest. Al the best. Paul
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Afternoon All
I've started the process of scaling up the plans and getting them ready to transfer to ply. I've created a 1:1 picture of the 1:10 printed plans, then scaled up x2 and converted sections to PDF. The PDFs can then be printed tiled on A4 paper with crop marks and put back together with tape... Some of the frames have been edited in photoshop to change the profile a shade, the same chine mod as on my 1:10 build.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/05/20220503_154911-Custom.jpg)
For the frames I've just added the chine mods to one side and added a centreline to fold on, to get symmetry.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/05/20220503_155001-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/05/20220503_155706-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/05/20220503_160104-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/05/20220503_160603-Custom.jpg)
And that's what will be cut out from the ply.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/05/20220503_160618-Custom.jpg)
And here's the keel plan in the build slip... With the 1:10 Aquarama for scale... Going to need a bigger bench.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/05/20220505_164601-Custom.jpg)
Just had a delivery of 6mm birch ply so will be giving the bandsaw a workout soon...
Best regards to all.
David.
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Afternoon All
Some progress to report. Had to purchase a new toy to assist with the woodworking ahead...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/11/20220510_095352-Custom.jpg)
Not cheap and not large, but seems pretty smooth and has a dust extraction port that seems to work. It has a clamp built in and doesn't need a permanent mount.
The Proxxon bandsaw is doing well with the 6mm ply, but not ideal for interior cuts in frames, or some of the keel cuts too. So I looked at a scroll saw, decided I'd already spent too much on the sander, so repurposed the jigsaw, spent £5.00 for some new fine blades...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/11/20220511_144254-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/11/20220511_144316-Custom.jpg)
It's working well, helped me with the keel cuts. Currently 3D printing a dust extraction adapter to finish it off, it's going to see plenty of action I think.
I have the forward half of the keel cut out and will sort the rear half when the dust extraction is running... Also have the first frame made up, the 1/5 frame against the 1/10 plan for comparison:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/11/20220511_130537-Custom.jpg)
And the keel section plus first frame sitting in the build slip, being watched over by the crew of the 1/10, next frames ready to be cut out...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/11/20220511_151902-Custom.jpg)
I'll get all the frames ready and correctly dry fitted before anything gets glued. Also a load of holes to be drilled for running wire and pipes, I didn't drill (holesaw) enough at this stage in the 1/10 build and it's almost impossible later, lesson learnt. Weight saving was a big issue with the 1/10 build, I have a feeling it won't be as critical with the 1/5, but I guess the holes will help anyway. Target weight for this build is 20 / 25 kg, but I'd rather build light and ballast. There are a few video's of 1/5 builds on YouTube, they seem too ride high to me.
Best regards to all.
David.
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You seem to come up with some brilliant ideas for adaptations David - how on earth did you manage to mount your regular jigsaw in that manner?
Like the building slip by the way.
Ray.
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Hi Ray
Pleased you like it, my B&D jigsaw has a couple of M6 threads at the front of its base so I used them, I drilled a couple of extra holes at the rear, then bolted them through some 15mm ply, and recessed the heads. Drilled a hole to the rear of where the blade would be, then used the blade to cut a small path forward, so the ply gives some support to the blade. The jigsaw can be adjusted for speed, seems to work... I did find some finer and thinner blades, to help with rounded cuts.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/11/Capture-Custom.jpg)
Meant to add, it's then all clamped with G Clamps... Very securely... I may end up drilling through my bench to make it extra secure. Coming loose would not end well.
Best regards
David.
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Ah yes, that all makes sense now.
Don't know if I would attempt that myself but, as you say, securing the rig for safety would be paramount.
Thanks for the clarification David.
Ray.
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Just took another look at your jigsaw set up - I thought you had mounted it on the wheels of your chair. {-) {-)
DOH!
Ray.
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Afternoon All
Getting to grips with scaling up, transferring to ply and cutting out. Bow is coming together.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/PSX_20220515_160837.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/PSX_20220515_160822.jpg)
Making some mods to the internal layout as i go, the Amati 1/10 version has a full cabin layout, this build will not, so building in the speakers to frame 06. I'm thinking of adding tubes to the speakers to get the bass deeper...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/PSX_20220515_160856.jpg)
06 cut out and dry fit in place.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/PSX_20220515_160954.jpg)
Other holes are for cables.
Frame 07 being cut out on the jigsaw table.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/PSX_20220515_160924.jpg)
And frames 05, 06 and 07 in place dry fit on the forward keel section. Those are the Amati part numbers. They're 1st, 2nd and 3rd frames from the bow.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/PSX_20220515_161024.jpg)
And the 1/10 for scale.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/PSX_20220515_161048.jpg)
It's quite helpful that the keel is in two parts, at this size it's all a bit more manageable for the time being. When it comes time to bring the keel halves together I think I'll need a bench that I can walk around when working on it.
Best regards to all.
David.
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This is seriously first class work - I don't think scratch building gets better or more innovative than this :-))
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Glad you put the size comparison photo on - helps us to visualise what you're up against.
Ray.
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Afternoon All
Thanks for the comments Mark and Ray..! Some more progress to report.
I've been a bit deskbound this past week, but that's allowed me to use the 3D printer, so can't complain... I've made up some tubes with a flanges to use with the speakers. It's amazing that the tube can deepen the sound, at least it works with a cardboard tube, so hoping these will work too, they'll not be seen once in place.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/24/20220520_171119-Custom.jpg)
This is where they'll go, up in the bow:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/24/20220524_153736-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/24/20220524_153744-Custom.jpg)
More of the frames are ready to cut out, that's 5 of them on a sheet of 1200 x 600 x 6mm ply, and some of the other parts in top left:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/24/20220524_153940-Custom.jpg)
The eagle eyed will notice that they're not all symmetrical, at the final cutting stage I'm cutting the modified half first, then folding the template along its centreline to ensure symmetry. So the 'other' side of the template is just a guide to the approximate shape for the rough initial cut. The main mods are for the chine, and around the motor / shafts cut outs.
This is the frame 08 template, part the forward section where the hull needs the extra lift and a cleaner water release (in my opinion...) and shows the feint line of the original plan, and the heavier modified line with harder chine.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/24/20220524_153957-Custom.jpg)
Also have the stern keel section cut out... Very exciting..! And when mated up with the forward section, it gives an idea of the overall size of the beast... 1/10th stern is same place as the 1/5th stern:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/24/20220524_153914-Custom.jpg)
Looking forward to taking the 1/10th Aquarama up to the Mayhem Wicksteed event on Saturday, weather looking decent for Saturday at the moment...
Best regards to all.
David.
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Afternoon All
Progress with more of the frames cut out:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/01/20220601_165955-Custom.jpg)
Two more frames to be cut out plus the transom. The mods to the chine can be seen, I think this makes it a 'reverse chine' or close to it... Nothing glued yet, I'll need to do some sanding and detailing on the frames, and check for symmetry.
Great long weekend to all.
David.
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Evening All
I now have all the frames ready for trimming, including the transom. 30cm ruler for reference...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/05/PSX_20220605_205433.jpg)
I've been playing with using the 3D Printer to create the grating in the cabin floor. It's in place in the pic.
Best regards
David.
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Afternoon All
Made some progress getting the motors / ESCs tested and basic radio configuration, also getting my head around using an SBEC for Rx and general 5V power with a third 4S LiPo for powering everything but the motors. That 4S will be run through the 8A SBEC for 5V and several 12V regulators for other requirements such as amplifiers, pumps, fans. (In the pics below the motors are running on 3S LiPos, eventually they will be on 6S.)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/23/20220623_165826-Custom.jpg)
The two motors powered up in the prototype mounts, the foreground mount has cups around the bobbin mounts to prevent too much movement but maintain the isolation of the motors:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/23/20220623_165633-Custom.jpg)
They're silky smooth all the way up the rev range, very pleased.
The two FrSky Neuron 80 ESCs connect to the LiPos via XT90 anti spark connectors:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/23/20220623_165701-Custom.jpg)
I'm happy with the use of an aluminium case on my 1/10 build to house the ESCs, it combines fans and water cooling certain areas, it'll be same with this build. I had to retrofit the cooling on the 1/10, it'll be built in this time around from the start.
Rx is same as the 1/10 build, the FrSky R8 Pro, this has 8 channels built in plus telemetry and can extend out to 24 channels using the SBUS:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/23/20220623_165708-Custom.jpg)
8A at 5v available from this FrSky SBEC:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/23/20220623_165713-Custom.jpg)
I'm using a rudder servo for each rudder, not sure if this is overkill but the rudder blades will be substantial and it will allow some tweaking in the programming as they'll be independent, 2 x 25kg metal geared digital servos:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/23/20220623_165911-Custom.jpg)
And just because its on my desk at the same time... The sound system under development. The rails and PCB clips are 3D printed, a bit of space under the PCBs to allow wires to be (eventually) routed, and allow ventilation. Once I have the footprint arrived at I'll make a box to mount the system, this will have one or two fans to maintain an airflow. This will be mounted to the side of the LiPos, on the opposite side of the hull will be a similar 'box' with Rx and other electronics, switches and so on. Same arrangement / layout as the 1/10 build. For reference the rails below are 100mm long.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/06/23/20220623_165849-Custom.jpg)
Similar approach to the sound system I made for the 1/10 build... But there's going to be a separate sound system for each 'engine', so 2 x independent V8 sounds, and they'll start / run 5 seconds apart. So you hear engine 1 start and run, then engine 2 start and run. Two Arduino Pro Minis supplying the sounds then two amplifiers that will drive two speakers, and maybe two audio exciters. I've had it running and its working, sounds good to me, a deep rumble... This stage is getting the parts more integrated, then I'll record the sounds and push it up to YouTube.
I want to get these various systems integrated and boxed ready to install into the hull so I can cut the hull frames for installation before going much further with the hull build.
Best regards to all..!
David.
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Hiya David, you're certainly approaching these electrical installations with a lot of practical knowledge and experience. I'll need to read this a few times to understand how these things work.
Anyway, it looks like it's gonna be a winner!
Cheers,
Ray.
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Hi Ray
Well, I'm taking it slow and doing a lot of background reading / Googling. It's useful to have the 1/10th build experience and am following it as a blueprint.
Nice set of new LiPos on your build..!
Best regards
David.
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David
Will the void space [in yellow] behind each speaker be a sealed enclosure, or vented via those '20mm?' diameter pairs of drilling highlighted in the red axis?
I found myself just a little lost with post #53 %) on the 5th of March, between the 3" coned speaker & the additional Exciters??
Derek
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Hi Derek
Here's a clearer view of the current holes...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/05/15/PSX_20220515_160954.jpg)
I envisage the 20mm holes are for routing cables, then there are 30mm holes under the speaker holes. I'd thought that there needs to be some allowance for air to move around behind the speakers, rather than sealed. I think its also a very black art to get it right.... there's a possibility to add an extension pipe to that 30mm hole, the aim being to route the sound from the back of the speaker, and prevent any cancelling of the sound waves by the creation of standing waves. I'll need to test and see what's best as the build progresses.
The exciters will be mounted separately, I need to figure out which flat surface will be suitable.
Aim is for a deep V8 sound...
Very best regards
David.
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Evening All
First sounds out of the sound system. Needs a bit of work to finesse but basics are there I think.
https://youtu.be/sct1FfVY3TU (https://youtu.be/sct1FfVY3TU)
Best regards
David.
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That is a very cool sound system, sounds are excellent, are they sampled?
Can you change them via SD card or data upload?
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Hi Carl
The system is based on this
https://github.com/TheDIYGuy999/Rc_Engine_Sound (https://github.com/TheDIYGuy999/Rc_Engine_Sound)
And tweaked a little. It uses two sound files converted from WAVs. These are indeed the startup and running sounds from an Aquarama V8. In this instance kindly shared by forum user C-3PO. The Arduinos have very limited memory and processing power. The Arduinos can be interfaced to a PC for code to be tweaked.
I'll post an update when I have it a lite more refined.
Best regards
David.
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Progress being made in a couple of areas.
I'm using an SBUS adapter to add 8 additional channels. So now have 16 to play with. Just adds options and expansion going forward on the electronic side.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/07/30/PSX_20220730_203925.jpg)
Started to build the housing for the two ESCs. I'm going belt and braces this time as the 1/10 build had to be modified a few times before it became reliable. So this time its got forced air cooling with heatsinks on the ESCs and fans. Fans will spool up depending on the temperature of the ESCs. I'll be adding extraction vents to get the air circulation in the hull sorted.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/07/30/PSX_20220730_203947.jpg)
And on the base of the housing, the mounting plate will have water passing through to remove additional heat.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/07/30/PSX_20220730_204001.jpg)
These ESCs are very good, but not really meant for marine use. Hence the housing and additional cooling.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Cooling plate now brazed, and a couple of pinholes tracked down and sealed so it's watertight. 5mm id pipe for in and outlet.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/03/PSX_20220803_210431.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/03/PSX_20220803_210448.jpg)
Best regards to all
David.
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Another couple of hours today. The case for the ESCs is now ready to test. The two ESCs are equipped with heatsinks that are in contact with the case. The case will be constantly cooled by the water cooled base plate. If more cooling is needed the fans spool up at a set temperature and increase in speed as required. Connections are all in place through the case. I'm mainly using multiplex connections for control and telemetry. Nice and positive physical connection and carry 6 wires.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/06/PSX_20220806_171340.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/06/PSX_20220806_171354.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/06/PSX_20220806_171413.jpg)
And the hull frames and keel will be modified to place the case lower in this kind of position, right behind the motors. White blocks indicate approximate LiPo positions.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/06/PSX_20220806_171456.jpg)
Again... This is all because I chose to use the aircraft oriented FrSky Neuron ESCs to control the 1600w motors. They would just cook in a sealed boat hull without sufficient cooling.
Very best regards to all.
David.
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Again .... :o
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%% Serious heat dissipation being planned! It’ll work a treat I reckon. Wow....
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Morning Stuw
Hope so..! Moved on to the electronics, I've had the individual systems working on the bench when building and testing, now getting the components mounted for integration with the boat. In the Aquarama its tricky to use space forward of the motors for equipment that may need access, and not ideal to add weight forward anyway given that the boat builds bow heavy. So I'm making up two 6mm boards that are 200x120mm and will become boxes that will fit either side of the batteries (seen in the above picture as white blocks). The hull frames will be adapted to accept the boxes before the frames are bonded in place. This is the first board (port side) that will be taking the sound system and a couple of related Arduinos and relays. I'll be adding 40mm 12v fans to keep an air flow across the electronics. Lower left are the two 15W amplifiers, one for each V8. These are TPA3110 Amps (£5.20 each on Amazon...) as they seem to give a better sound than the original PAM8610 units, I've also switched to conventional relays as the RC switches as I was having problems with the Mosfet type switches leaking current resulting in and on state, and an almost off state... Not ideal as it produced all sorts of whines and strange noises. The relays are larger, but are 100% on, or off...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/11/PSX_20220811_183755.jpg)
Larger components mounted using stand offs, small components will be added to the grey DIN rails using 3D printed mounts, cable routing on the back of the board.
Power coming in from a 4S liPo using an XT60 connector, though switch, a fuse (5A at the moment) and then a 12v step down for the Amps and fans and so on.
The second board (to be starboard mounted) will accommodate the Receiver, SBEC, water pump relay, fan temp control and bilge water sensor.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Hi David,
Fantastic build!
Have you done / got a 'block diagram' of the all the electrics... I'd love to see one! :-)
-
Hi Martyn
Thanks for that..! And I don't have a diagram at the moment. But I think I could do with drawing one out, it would help with the work in progress.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/13/PSX_20220813_170250.jpg)
Best regards
David.
-
Hi Martyn, and All...
It did help to try putting thoughts re the build hardware on paper, here's my attempt to summarise what's being done, lots more space to play with in this build. This is a guide to the systems and their layout, bow being up...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/16/1_5-Aquarama-Block-1.jpg)
At the moment I'm building up the 'Port Electronics Package', but have some spare mounting space in it so may move over some of the systems from Stbd side, issue there is I then need to 'bridge' over more connections from stbd side which has the Rx... Not the end of the world...
This is the current state of the 'Port package', sounds systems and Vibration (cranking) motor are working with no blue smoke, yet...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/16/PSX_20220816_101123.jpg)
And this is a schematic of channel usage:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/16/1_5-Aquarama-2.jpg)
The 5 / 12V regulators are a mix of types depending on current need.
The sound systems are using Aquarama V8 samples, bow speakers are selected for bass... The Exciters, I'm thinking of placing them inside port and stbd hull sides.
Exhaust smoke. After scouring YouTube for options, I'm going to try a glycerine based system using some nichrome wire and fibreglass cord to generate white smoke, then fans to drive it through the exhausts. And an Arduino / Mosfet arrangement to vary the volume of smoke and speed it gets expelled depending on the throttle setting.... But not started that yet.
Some of the channel usage doesn't really need to be on separate channels, I could use Y leads, but as the channels are available it makes everything a little more flexible down the line.
As always, the challenge is getting it all working in the real world... :-))
Best regards to all.
David.
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Astonishing! :o :o :o
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Evening All
Some progress with one of the electronics packages. Now have it in a custom case, 3mm ply and 2mm perspex cover and a 40mm fan above the amps. This will be powered up when the amps are active. Some trimming to do and some more ports to cut out for connectors. I've made up two sets of parts for the case, so I have same for the other side, all the RC gear.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/PSX_20220820_193812.jpg)
Not shown well in that pic but the lid is removable, as is the electronics board.
And the smoke generator... is coming along. 3D printed in the main. Will show it working and the inside layout in a couple of days.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/20/PSX_20220820_193830.jpg)
This is intended to produce a very modest amount of smoke, just a trace blown out of the exhausts.
Very best regards to all.
David.
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All cased up like that gives a very real professional looking job - fantastic work David :-))
Aye,
Ray.
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Hi Ray
Thanks for that, it's my attempt to keep the cabling under control. I'm also using braided cable sleeves to keep wires together as they run through the hull.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/23/20220823_165409-Custom.jpg)
A bit more progress made. I've moved the Pump relay over as it needs a 12v supply, and added the ports for the MPX connectors.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/23/20220823_164231-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/23/20220823_164237-Custom.jpg)
First test of the 'smoke generator' is successful, in that it didn't do any damage to anything and did generate smoke.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/23/20220823_145529-Custom.jpg)
Heavily plagiarised from YouTube examples... At the moment the output can be varied using a DC motor controller, and that works nicely. Aim is to have the on/off on an RC channel, then have the output slaved to throttle. I think the fan can run whenever the sound system is active as the smoke won't be required if the sound system is not 'on', that will maintain an airflow and keep the unit cool. I'd like to 'pulse' the output too, maybe a butterfly arrangement nearer to the exhaust stubs, not sure yet. Top cover is a tight fit, no smoke coming out where it shouldn't. When installed M3 screws keep the fan and lid in place. Unit has a flange to be bulkhead mounted.
This is a low output...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/23/20220823_145544-Custom.jpg)
And a bit more...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/23/20220823_145548-Custom.jpg)
I'm thinking that a very low output when pulsed, might just look like a V8...
The insides, a length of 4mm fibreglass cord sitting in vegetable glycerine, the glycerine wicks up the cord to the heating element (nichrome wire). The two bolts holding the wire are isolated from the case by silicone tube. Put a voltage across the nichrome an it gets hot enough to vaporise the glycerine producing white smoke. Fan forces air through the unit picking up the smoke on the way.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/23/20220823_145805-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/23/20220823_145810-Custom.jpg)
This seems a lot more controllable than the ultrasonic disc approach... I just couldn't make that reliable or controllable and usually ended up with a puddle of water...
This will have an Arduino controlling the unit and its output, as safety measures I could add a temperature sensor, then shut the unit down if it gets too hot, or limit the time the element is 'on'. Testing it earlier for 5 mins or so on a low setting the case just didn't get hot. More testing required, anyone tried this approach...?
Very best regards to all.
David.
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Afternoon All
A few hours here and there on the electronics housings, and the wiring loom.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/30/20220830_164037-Custom.jpg)
This has a 4S 14.4V input for the various needs, same supply will feed to similar box on the other side of the hull. 'Speaker Grill' is actually a 40mm fan to keep an airflow though the box. There's a grill covered slot to allow the air to vent out, below.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/30/20220830_164021-Custom.jpg)
And the connectors are now labelled up. The 'Bridge' connector is to the opposite electronics box that holds the Rx, so it's the on/off signals for the relays.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/30/20220830_164029-Custom.jpg)
UPS arrived earlier with a shiny new 4,000mAh 4S Turnigy Graphene LiPo. This will provide the ancillary power for the boat. The main 6S units are on back order.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/30/20220830_163713-Custom.jpg)
And it will sit between the main LiPos, somewhere here, but lower once I've taken a saw to the frames...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/08/30/20220830_163657-Custom.jpg)
Hoping to take the 1/10th Aquarama for an outing to the Black Park MBC Open Day on Sunday, and hoping the weather remains OK...
Very best regards to all.
David.
-
Work continues on a few bits of hardware.
3D printed a couple of fan ducts. These will act as extractor fans for the interior of the hull. Pipes will connect to the exhaust stubs.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/07/PSX_20220907_182421.jpg)
Fans will be mounted high to avoid any water coming into the hull.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/07/PSX_20220907_182455.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/07/PSX_20220907_182522.jpg)
Also been working on the port electronics case. The fan is over the SBEC Heatsinks in this case. There is a cutout in the mounting panel and then a vent so the flow is past the SBEC and then out. There will be another vent as some of the components will benefit from small heatsinks and so ideally need an airflow too.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/07/PSX_20220907_183913.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/07/PSX_20220907_183849.jpg)
Will be adding the various components over the coming days.
Very best regards to all.
David.
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Friday update. Fedex arrived earlier with 4 x 4,000mAh 6S Turnigy Graphene LiPos for this build, planning to use them as 2 x parallel pairs, so 8,000mAh available to each motor. I also added a couple of 3,000mAh 3S LiPo spares for the 1/10 build, quite a size and weight difference:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/09/20220909_101344-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/09/20220909_101601-Custom.jpg)
And have been busy building up the port electronics package, it's very much a work in progress... Currently Rx at top left with expansion board below it. SBEC at lower left. 12V PSU at top right with 2 x RC switches for Dock lights and Nav lights at top centre. Fuse board at lower right an in the middle an arduino and Mosfet that drives the fans in the ESC case based on their temperature. Lower centre is a small step down board that will supply 5V to the (LED) lights. Just building up the board so I can figure out what connectors need accommodating and where on the case....
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/09/20220909_173532-v2.jpg)
Best regards to all.
David.
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Afternoon All
An update on the smoke generator, still a work in progress...
I now have the unit producing smoke and pulsing that smoke, like a V8 on start up, and that pulse rate is linked to the throttle setting on the Tx.
Still needs refining, but the basics are now there. To get the pulsing action I've placed a rotating disc under the smoke exit pipes, this rotor has cutouts so the exit pipe alternate between open and closed. This is rotated by a 300rpm 12V motor. This motor and the fan that drives the smoke out are under proportional control slaved to the throttle. The 'smoke' is created by vaporising glycerine... I've realised that's not the best idea as it can create sugar, and then burn it, not good... So I've a bottle of commercial water based smoke fluid on its way. Should be similar effect, but lower risks... A bit more testing then optimising the electronics to fit inside one of the electronics boxes. Plan is to have the smoke unit on a momentary switch on the transmitter, so it will then run for say 30 seconds, then switch itself off and have to be manually reactivated, primarily a protection against overheating due to a forgetful operator...
Here's a pic, and a link to a video file.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/21/Smoke-Custom.jpg)
https://vimeo.com/752084275/68d3eeba2b (https://vimeo.com/752084275/68d3eeba2b)
Best regards to all.
David.
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Afternoon All
Still busy with the electronics boards, second board is coming along:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/28/20220928_163608-Custom.jpg)
I had to swap out the 'Tarot' 8 Channel SBUS extender as it was demonstrating some very strange behaviour, mixed up channel outputs, and no output on some channels. I did see some corrosion on the underside of the board, looked like excess flux to me that had started breaking down the board. Anyway confidence in it (and the Tarot QA team...) lost, it's in the bin. Replaced with two FrSky 4 Channel SBUS extenders, I should have just used the FrSky units in the first place... A bit more work on that board and it should be good to go.
Also been playing with the 3D printer. Designing and printing an 'exhaust manifold'... Plan is to use 25mm od brass tube for the exhaust stubs, these will be chromed. Then I need to feed the coolant water outlet, the airflow outlet from the hulls interior and the 'smoke' output through the 'exhaust', so this manifold is to bring them together. A couple of mounting flanges, the unit is a push fit into the brass tube, seal improved with the grooves for O rings.
The Tinkercad design:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/28/Exhaust-Manifold-V2.jpg)
The printed result, needs a little cleaning up, 4 hours to print:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/28/20220928_163848-Custom.jpg)
The 3D printer approach makes the fabrication of quite a tricky component a lot more straightforward.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/28/20220928_163924-Custom.jpg)
The main fan will force air through the exhaust from the 'back', the second inlet is for the smoke to be introduced:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/09/28/20220928_163506-Custom.jpg)
I'm enjoying the build up of the various bits of hardware, but am looking forward to getting back to the woodwork..!
Best regards to all.
David.
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Owing to a scant knowledge of electrical wizardry I'm unable to submit any useful comments on your work David however, still finding it all fascinating O0 .
Aye,
Ray.
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Wot he said! :-))
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What they both said {-) Honestly your work is incredible :-))
-
Very kind comments, not sure fully deserved... My approach is 'how difficult can it be..?' and so I try. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it takes a few attempts, and sometimes... Well it just doesn't.
Electronics is a bit of an issue at the moment, parts all worked fine testing individually, but put them all together, and its a different story. Waiting on a few new components, so thought I'd get back to some metalwork in the meantime.
The rudders, will be shaped from 4mm brass plate on 5mm stainless shafts and custom tubes. Bearings from an engineering plastic and a good quality seal at the top. I'll lube them up before use, but they shouldn't really need it.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/05/20221003_173348-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/05/20221005_173741-Custom.jpg)
All still work in progress. Rudders bolted together to allow some machining and keep them symmetrical.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/05/20221005_173841-Custom.jpg)
Also working on the P brackets:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/05/20221003_173420-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/05/20221004_152351-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/05/20221004_152446-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/05/20221004_154943-Custom.jpg)
Making the bearings out of this stuff: [size=78%]https://www.igus.co.uk/product/539?artNr=SFRX-1000 (https://www.igus.co.uk/product/539?artNr=SFRX-1000)[/size]
Bit of a leap of faith, but it machines really well and I can make it any length / design so above is a flanged bearing that is an interference fit with the P bracket (pushed in once silver soldered), plus a 'thrust washer' of same material. I spoke to the manufacturer, they seem to think it will work well in this use case.
Best regards to all.
David.
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An update after a bit of time on the milling machine.
Rudder blades and P bracket skegs bolted together and machined together to ensure they're same size and shape.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/13/20221013_103916-Custom.jpg)
This is the full size rudder for the Aquarama, so I'm going for a similar shape (also as per the 1/10 build which is working well on that boat). I'm convinced that keeping the rudder blades not so deep helps stop the Aquarama rolling so much in turns by reducing the amount of lift. I'm also putting the shaft about 30% from the front of the blade, more conventional for balance I think, the Riva item is unusually far forward...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/13/AquaramaRudder-Custom.jpg)
And the set of blades / Skegs at the moment:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/13/20221013_104203-Custom.jpg)
And the blades dry fitted on their shafts / stocks (shafts are an interference fit to the blades, not fully seated yet til I'm ready to solder):
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/13/20221013_104144-Custom.jpg)
I think I'll do some shaping of the blades next before silver soldering to the shafts... But might be easier to hold if the silver soldering is done first...
We'll see.
Best regards
David.
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Well they certainly look the business and as for the soldering I'd definitely go with the shafts attached first - less chance of damage to your hands that way!
Aye,
Ray.
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Reading the specs of what you are making the bearings out of it looks like a very good material. I've never heard of it before but its not like models are run for hundreds of hours and they are often over engineered. Its great to see something new being added to our hobby - having said that I bet others have heard of it before {-)
As for the rudders - lovely job I reckon people could dig their gardens with them no problem!! Great job!!!
-
Well I'm certainly putting plenty of faith in that plastic bearing material. We'll see how it performs...
Some progress with the rudders today. Some shaping then some soldering and some more shaping. Still some polishing but pleased with results so far.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/15/PSX_20221015_194158.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/15/PSX_20221015_194216.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/15/PSX_20221015_194327.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/15/PSX_20221015_194249.jpg)
Once these are polished up it will be on to same work on the P brackets.
Happy weekend to all.
David.
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Rudders finished.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/16/PSX_20221016_175626.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/16/PSX_20221016_175702.jpg)
Couple of air bubbles in the silver solder. But not bad enough to do it again... just irritating...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/16/PSX_20221016_175829.jpg)
Meant to shoot the rudders against a ruler. But forgot... the tube used on the rudder stocks is 10mm OD.
Leading edge profile.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/16/PSX_20221016_175729.jpg)
And trailing edge.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/16/PSX_20221016_175758.jpg)
Blades are 60mm in length, 40mm deep and 4mm thick on 5mm shafts.
Regards to all..!
David.
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Congratulations on a fantastic job, they are real beauties, it's a shame they'll have to go into the wet stuff!
Cheers,
Ray.
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Haha... They may spend their time on the lake underwater and unseen, but you and I will know they're there and that they're very shiny...! :-))
-
Couple of hours shaping the P bracket struts today.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/17/PSX_20221017_181048.jpg)
Some aggressive filing then finer grit sanding discs. Final polish will wait for after the soldering.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/17/PSX_20221017_181123.jpg)
Shape is now about right I think.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/17/PSX_20221017_181148.jpg)
Next step is the more tricky silver solder job. Joining the skegs to the bearings.
So this is what it should look like, if I don't melt them...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/17/PSX_20221017_181216.jpg)
Will post the results...
David.
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Evening All
P Brackets are ready...!
I was a bit worried about how this would go, but very pleased with the results.
Made up a jig to hold skeg and bearing hub in position:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/18/20221018_105116-Custom.jpg)
That's a firebrick btw, not MDF...
Managed to keep the silver solder in the joint in the main...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/18/20221018_120641-Custom.jpg)
And the cleaned up versions:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/18/20221018_174912-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/18/20221018_174924-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/18/20221018_175104-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/18/20221018_175132-Custom.jpg)
Maybe a tad more buffing up, otherwise good to go.
Props will be drilled and tapped for a grubscrew rather than use a nut on the shaft. (This was recommended by UKMike and has worked really well. (As in it looks good and I haven't lost a prop on the 1/10th yet...)
Going to start working my way up the shafts now to the motor mounts. So thrust collars, couplings and so on.
Hope the updates are of interest.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Hope the updates are of interest.
Best regards to all.
David.
Definitely of interest David!
... and quite inspiring as well... Once again, a beautiful result. :-))
Aye,
Ray.
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Haven't commented before, but I'm really enjoying your build. The electronics are way over my head but the quality of what you are doing is superb.
Ralph
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Thanks for the feedback and encouraging comments chaps.
Been looking at the top end of the prop shafts and how they're going to connect to the motor mounts. I've got most of it figured out with 3D printed prototype parts, so it's now time for the brass and aluminium components to be created.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/25/PSX_20221025_183417.jpg)
Prop tubes are 10mm brass, so am making up a brass header that will contain a bearing race plus seal plus oiling tube and be finished with a 35mm diameter flange that will connect to the thrust block.(Still in black plastic in the above picture)
I've been scratching my head re how to get the flanges accurate as I don't really have the tooling to do it. I'm trying with 3D printed dies that hold the flange plates and have guide holes in precise locations required. And it seems to work...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/25/PSX_20221025_182742.jpg)
And when flipped over
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/25/PSX_20221025_182808.jpg)
Then tapped out for M4
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/25/PSX_20221025_183405.jpg)
That's one of the flanges for top of a shaft. It'll be silver soldered after a bit more machining. Then ready to move on to the thrust block.
Quite pleased with that approach as it should keep all the flanges accurate.
Work in progress..!
David.
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More progress...
Bit more machining of the top end of the prop shaft ready to take its flange.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/26/20221026_143602-Custom.jpg)
And some machining of the flange itself so its an interference fit (small hammer required to seat it..)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/26/20221026_143609-Custom.jpg)
So its ready to silver solder
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/26/20221026_143617-Custom.jpg)
This shows the seat for the 11mm od ball race and 15mm od seal, and shows an apparent gap where the flange joins... I put a bit of a chamfer on the end so there's somewhere for the silver solder to go, its actually a tight push fit...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/26/20221026_144030-Custom.jpg)
Here's the ball race inserted
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/26/20221026_144040-Custom.jpg)
And the seal over the bearing (this build method will keep all parts available in future for maintenance / replacement if required)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/26/20221026_144123-Custom.jpg)
And here's the result after some silver soldering and facing on the lathe
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/26/20221026_161955-Custom.jpg)
Foreground of the pic above shows start of the thrust bearing assembly, thrust will be passed to the solid part of the motor mount, not the motor which will be isolated on bobbin mounts.
And finally for today, I've got the aluminium bar stock in the lathe that will hopefully become the thrust block between the top of the prop shaft and the motor mount. 3D printed version shown alongside, that's what I'm aiming for...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/26/20221026_161814-Custom.jpg)
We shall see. Next exciting episode (maybe) tomorrow...
Best regards to all
David.
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You seem to have made a very gallant attempt to drill the flanges accurately! That kind of accuracy usually needs the dividing head as you indicate.
That's where a lot of projects for me go adrift with just a bench pillar drill and centre punch!
N
-
Hi N
Agreed re the problems marking out then centre punch then pillar drill. That's been an issue for me too. This is most ambitious machining attempted by me in a while... Test with the 3d guides will be to see if they are consistent enough in terms of correct line up when holes are transferred to metal. I plan to print a new guide for each flange to avoid any wear in the holes building up to a problem.
A cnc setup would be nice.... But not sure the wife would agree. 🤔
Best regards
David.
-
Didn't have much time today, but promised an update. Some progress with initial machining of the aluminium bar for the thrust collar.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/27/PSX_20221027_183844.jpg)
It's then a 10mm drill all the way through, and a boring bar to take out most of the length to 16mm id. The flange at the left of the pic above will be left at 10mm, this is where the 15mm od thrust bearing will be seated.
Will then cut at the left flange and mill out to expose the shaft and give access to the thrust collar for adjustments and face that left flange. That's the motor mount end.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/27/PSX_20221027_183805.jpg)
That's now tomorrow's task. Then we'll see if the flanges line up OK...
Regards to all
David.
-
First thrust collar machined...
This is the thrust bearing that will take reverse thrust.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/29/PSX_20221029_180046.jpg)
And this is the forward bearing.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/29/PSX_20221029_180125.jpg)
Milling out the access slot.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/29/PSX_20221029_180156.jpg)
And comparison with the 3d printed version.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/29/PSX_20221029_180221.jpg)
And the assembly so far.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/29/PSX_20221029_180246.jpg)
And this is where the thrust collar will transfer that thrust to the motor mount.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/29/PSX_20221029_180504.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/10/29/PSX_20221029_180530.jpg)
Coming along...
Best regards to all.
David.
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Thats some pretty amazing engineering going on there. A great build that just gets better as it evolves :-)
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Thanks Mark. I suspect that like you I need to know that I've done my very best with the build, so, I try.
Not much progress this week, just a few hours today. But good news is that the flanges are lining up. This is current state of play...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/05/PSX_20221105_195539.jpg)
Also now drilled at the motor mount end. And with thrust bearing in place.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/05/PSX_20221105_195638.jpg)
And the whole assembly.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/05/PSX_20221105_195602.jpg)
It's pretty rigid and I think fit for the power of the motors.
Now have to make the second one, but should be easier as it will be a copy.
Regards to all.
David.
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I've just been playing catch-up on your updates David and I must say that I am in absolute awe of your abilities - you're showing just what can be achieved with attention to detail. Really appreciate your updates. :-))
Ray.
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Hi David,
Nice bit of engineering, :-)) like you I enjoy making my own running gear, just a question how do you plan on lubricating the shafts ?
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Hi Ray and Dave
All I can say is that having set out to build a 1/5 Aquarama I think I have to pull out all the stops to do it justice. And I've made my life just that little more difficult by wanting to suppress unwanted brushless sounds as far as possible. And add a boatload (pun intended..!) of electronic toys. Don't know how long it's all going to take... or cost...
But I am enjoying the build process, that's the main thing..!
@Dave. I've yet to add an oiling tube on the shaft tube. I'm planning to add it on that top brass collar that holds the top bearing and seal. There is an issue with this as I've found on the 1/10 build, there's a large deck assembly immediately above that collar. So maybe still add the tube there but add a feed tube in a more convenient location and link with some pipe. Then I use a syringe to force in a few ml of lube before each outing.
I'm using what I've heard is the Ron Dean mix, vasalene, WD40 and 3 in 1 oil in roughly equal parts on the 1/10 Aquarama. Seems to work very well and that's using the same seals as the current build. I add a drop of same mix to the 'other' side of the shaft seal near the motors every now and then just to stop the seal getting dry.
I was reading on the forum that some are using olive oil. I'd like to do that from an eco point of view, but have also ready mixed reports. Until I'm more convinced I'll stick with the current mixture.
Best regards
David.
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Wow....I’m assuming that thrust bearings aren’t needed on smaller scale boats? It becomes an issue due to your scaled up version? Without any is my (someday to be finished) Javelin with brushless motor likely to suffer as the forces are transmitted into the motor?
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Morning Stuw
To be honest I don't know what forces the outrunner motors can really take. I do know they're designed to take the pull or push of an aero / drone propeller, but given water is a more 'solid' substance than air, it could create significant loads, instantaneous and sustained... Maybe there are some folks here who can comment. I'm doing it for a couple of reasons that I can't really quantify, more of a gut feel.
1. I'm using exposed shafts, and I don't want the P brackets to take the force.
2. The motors have the potential to develop around 1,600w / 2.2hp each. I just remember using a 2hp outboard motor and the force it could generate.
3. I'm planning to isolate the motors from the hull by mounting on bobbin mounts, and at the coupling using a suitable three part design. So this alone means I can't have the thrust from the shaft passed to the motors. They just have to produce their rotation energy, and not take any forces that would deform the rubber mounts...
In general terms I think the issue of where to take the thrust rises as the motor size and power of that thrust goes up. On full length prop tubes I think its conventional to use a thrust washer (maybe a teflon washer between a couple of ss washers) at the prop end to help take and transmit the thrust to the prop tube. So it's not all passed up to the motor. Then its down to setting up the shaft to not place too much thrust at the coupling end.
As always just my opinion. A very interesting point and I'd be interested in other folks views.
(Then there's always the fact that I like using the lathe...)
Best regards
David.
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Yes, David, we all know it's because you like to introduce a nice bit of engineering! :-)
But seriously can't really argue with anything you are saying with the main points being that in this build you are isolating the motors and also that the forces on the P bracket could be considerable. Ok they could be reduced/eliminated by using a collar at the end of the prop tube just outside of the hull with washers as you have said for full length prop tubes but its nowhere as elegant a solution and you have the space.
So no Stuw, it won't be a problem with your Javelin or similar sized craft and the locknut and thrush washer approach at the prop end and a collar at the motor end is a tried and tested solution. Even if some thrust is applied to the motor by not setting up correctly the motor should still last for ages.
Chris
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There's much less worry about thrust being applied to the motor bearings with a brushless motor. The old brushed motors normally use a plain bearing so any thrust is applied to the face of the bearing and any lack of lubrication will create drag and wear the bearing surface. Brushless motors use ball bearings and they are designed so that the load is on the bearing center which rotates with the shaft so no wear from this. The actual load is on the balls running on the hardened outers and as they are normally a sealed bearing they are well lubricated. As you say these motors are generally sold for aircraft use where the load is on an e-clip on the shaft at the rear of the motor running on the rear bearing. In a boat the load is normally in the opposite direction where it is the rear of the rotating case pushing on the internal bearing. In both cases the bearings can take the load easily without problems.Not too sure why you need to isolate the motors as they should be well balanced and vibration free when running.
Jim
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Morning Stuw
To be honest I don't know what forces the outrunner motors can really take. I do know they're designed to take the pull or push of an aero / drone propeller, but given water is a more 'solid' substance than air, it could create significant loads, instantaneous and sustained... Maybe there are some folks here who can comment. I'm doing it for a couple of reasons that I can't really quantify, more of a gut feel.
1. I'm using exposed shafts, and I don't want the P brackets to take the force.
2. The motors have the potential to develop around 1,600w / 2.2hp each. I just remember using a 2hp outboard motor and the force it could generate.
3. I'm planning to isolate the motors from the hull by mounting on bobbin mounts, and at the coupling using a suitable three part design. So this alone means I can't have the thrust from the shaft passed to the motors. They just have to produce their rotation energy, and not take any forces that would deform the rubber mounts...
In general terms I think the issue of where to take the thrust rises as the motor size and power of that thrust goes up. On full length prop tubes I think its conventional to use a thrust washer (maybe a teflon washer between a couple of ss washers) at the prop end to help take and transmit the thrust to the prop tube. So it's not all passed up to the motor. Then its down to setting up the shaft to not place too much thrust at the coupling end.
As always just my opinion. A very interesting point and I'd be interested in other folks views.
(Then there's always the fact that I like using the lathe...)
Best regards
David.
Hi David. That all makes sense to me. I understand now that you want to avoid loading the P brackets and the shear scale of your boat warrants some serious use of the lathe I reckon :-))
Although it’s not something I’ve done, I also see the need to solve the issue as you’re mounting the motor on bobbins. To be honest I had thought of doing that with mine but couldn’t get my head around avoiding the motor being pushed around! By using the bobbins I take it one of your aims is to eliminate noise being transmitted and magnified through the hull so that you can have a deeper V8 sound generated?
Thanks again for the detailed explanation. I follow with interest and awe...
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Morning Chaps
@Jim. Thanks for the feedback re the bearings, good to know. I agree that these brushless motors are well balanced and precision pieces of engineering, so no mechanically generated 'vibrations' to speak of. Having said that... I really don't like the high pitched whine that these systems give off, and that's what I'm trying to address... (The following might be rubbish, but it's what I understand right now...)
I think the whine comes from the pulsing of power into the coils of the pole pairs. My motors are 14 pole, so seven pairs, each shaft rotation needs 7 'jolts' of volts (and amps..), so to speak, so this is not really totally smooth delivery of power. Its 7 kicks per shaft rotation. I'm using FrSky Neuron ESCs that can use sine wave delivery of that power, so smoother than usual... But the issue then remains if one attaches this 'pulse generator' or as we're calling them 'brushless motors', to a sounding box, or as we're calling them, hulls, we get a very effective speaker resonating at whatever frequency (or harmonic that we can hear) is being generated by the motors...
Maybe the ESCs are adding to the party too as they're busy generating these pulses... (Just like a mains transformer will hum)
So, I'm isolating and containing the ESCs. And doing my best to isolate the motors.
@Stuw. I have the same concerns about the bobbins allowing too much movement, that really would not be good. So, this is the initial test arrangement, standard 20mm bobbins x 4 on the prototype 3D printed mount:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/09/PSX_20221109_102958.jpg)
It's pretty firm, but could be better, so I've added some cups (below) that are a tight fit around the bobbins. At the moment just in PLA plastic from a 3D printer. And they really make the mounts more rigid and resistant to the effects of torque by constraining their movement, while still isolating the motor from the mount and hull with rubber...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/09/PSX_20221109_103015.jpg)
The idea is that the cups can be made shorter or longer to arrive at a solution that works.
Whether it will all work... I don't know but it's fun to try.
My 1/10th Aquarama is noticeably quieter than many other similar brushless systems, so I'm planning to use similar techniques, and go further in the quest to have a quiet boat..!
And yes, I'd rather just hear the water coming off the hull, or the V8 sound system..!
Best regards
David.
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By the way... I now have two of the thrust blocks ready to go. That makes the props to the couplings for both shafts reasonably complete.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/09/PSX_20221109_123704.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/09/PSX_20221109_123631.jpg)
Motor mounts next...
David.
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What can one say! :-))
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Gobsmacked......absolutely brilliant.. :-))
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:-)) %%
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Thanks Chaps, just hoping it all works out...
A quick update. I knew cutting out the aluminium for the motor mounts would be arduous, and it is.
Early days, the channel has been cut and marked up:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/11/20221110_085936-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/11/20221110_092952-Custom.jpg)
Had to remove the usual clamp and just bolt the mount to the mill to accommodate it... Then started to get the edges square, and then used a small mill bit to start to cut out the interior, want to get good square cuts if I can and rounded corners.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/11/20221110_174359-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/11/20221111_172536-Custom.jpg)
If I can get one mount cut from the channel, drilled and trimmed this weekend I'll be happy.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Evening All
Took a bit longer with the first motor mount than I'd anticipated. But it's now its pretty much ready.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/14/PSX_20221114_180208.jpg)
And here with a motor in place.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/14/PSX_20221114_180328.jpg)
And with a shaft ready to attach.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/14/PSX_20221114_180356.jpg)
Next is either make another mount, or carry on and create the water cooling plate, currently a 3d plastic template in the pics above....
It's nice to see the mount coming together in aluminium. Feels like progress.
Regards to all.
David.
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That's a fine and solid looking bit of work you have done there David - great work with it so far :-))
Ray.
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Nice bit of milling :-))
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Thanks Both. A couple of hours today starting to fabricate the motor mount plates. 8mm aluminium plate cut to 80x50mm x 2.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/15/PSX_20221115_210449.jpg)
Then edges milled to get everything square, nice finish and final sizing.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/15/PSX_20221115_210612.jpg)
Then a 2mm plate same size, and drilled out using 3d printed template again for the hole positions.
So now at 10mm thick. And tomorrow will be milling out some water cooling channels.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/15/PSX_20221115_210639.jpg)
Best regards to all.
David.
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Afternoon All
Well it's been a bit of a week. On the downside. Felt a bit rough, but Wednesday I didn't have Covid, then another test on Thursday and it seems I do have Covid. No idea how I got it. On the upside... Any going out plans cancelled and did get a few hours of building in today and hopefully more tomorrow...
The mounting plates are coming along nicely. First one is fully machined. This is the water inlet and outlet.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/19/PSX_20221119_162218.jpg)
And then routed around the plate.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/19/PSX_20221119_162251.jpg)
Not my finest work. But I think its accurate enough to be functional.
So here's the plate in situ with motor, and main mount.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/19/PSX_20221119_162409.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/19/PSX_20221119_162457.jpg)
I'm pleased that the mounting system is rigid now it's in aluminium.
So next it's complete the second set...
And as the plates are two part, they have to be joined and sealed. My current plan is to use an approach I used back in the day using Araldite Rapid and an oven. I heat the aluminium in the oven to about 50 ish degrees, then apply the mixed epoxy, it's viscosity reduces and it flows really well, I think this helps it bond even better with the aluminium. Anyway its worked for me in the past with aluminium so I'll give it a go. Once cooled, the epoxy is fully flowed and very hard so should fully seal the mount plate.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Sorry to hear you've been 'under the weather' David but good to see you're still able to get a bit more done and your explanation of how to achieve the seal sounds very interesting.
Hope it all goes well for you.
Ray.
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A work of art - as usual!
Chris
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Managed some time today with the 3D Printer. Tweaked the cups on the bobbins so they come in from both ends of the bobbin rather than one. Looks a bit more balanced. Also slightly thinner walls and bevelled open ends to avoid chafing the bobbins.
Old versions.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/21/PSX_20221121_193132.jpg)
And the new versions.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/21/PSX_20221121_193155.jpg)
And as I'm in a covid induced (wife assisted) absence from my workshop... I've started to consider a kali type of coupling customised for my needs and optimised for the mount. Initial designs in PLA then once I've figured out dimensions I think I can make the ends in aluminium and the centre from TPU filament, should be strong but flexible enough to work well transmitting power through the coupling.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/21/PSX_20221121_193257.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2022/11/21/PSX_20221121_193332.jpg)
Work in progress...
David.
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Lovely work you must have made some serious swarf getting that done!
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Hey Mark, yes. Did make a bit of a mess, at least with the metal bits it doesn't produce the dust like wood... I have that yet to come...!
Been a bit busy over past month with life in general but finally some progress to report.
I now have the two motor mounts complete in aluminium. Plus the thrust assemblies drilled, threaded and attached to the mounts. Same with the prop tubes.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/01/PSX_20230101_144759.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/01/PSX_20230101_144843.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/01/PSX_20230101_144819.jpg)
That last pic also has prototype coupling in view. 3D printed at this stage.
Finally. Added the oiling tubes to the prop tubes.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/01/PSX_20230101_144927.jpg)
Need to check alignment then start to create the couplings in aluminium.
Best regards to all
David.
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Wow I am literally finding the engineering going into this build astounding - I'm lost for words its that good :-)) Keep the updates coming please!
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Morning David........I have followed this [and the previous] build with great interest, especially with the drive lines
With the current [1/5 scale] build, I see you appear to using a single 3 element ball thrust race in each drive shaft, however I am a little confused as am unsure if this trust race is used in two locations in differing housings within each drive shaft?
Reading about brushless motors [in-runner and out-runner styles], however I found little if any talk about the need for any additional consideration of driveline thrust :-X
May I ask, did you attempt to establish a calculation of distance to limit directional resultant thrust, or just pick a number [say 0.005"] of permissible directional limit thrust element movement?
Derek
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Morning Derek, thanks for the feedback, hope all's well with you.
Each drive line will indeed use two thrust races, one for forward thrust and one for reverse. They will both pass their thrust forces to the motor mount. Inside what I'm calling the 'thrust assembly' is a collar that can be locked onto the propshaft with one of the thrust bearings between the that collar and the main motor mount. Then as long as there's a little clearance between prop and P Bracket, that bearing should take forward thrust. The second thrust bearing is going motor side as the propshaft passes through the motor mount, between the motor mount and the coupling, that will take reverse thrust and again apply it to the motor mount. Hope that makes sense, I'll get some better pictures to illustrate. The couplings will allow a small longitudinal movement, but it will be minimal once adjusted.
And as to why do it at all... Well, I think it's all resulting from wanting to isolate the motors from the hull to reduce transmitted sound / whine to the hull. Once I decided to use rubber mounts, that means the motors can move if sufficient force is applied to them, and as they're rated at 1,600w, that could get messy... So I felt the only way was to then remove that thrust force from the motors altogether, and this is my solution. I do agree that the motors should be able to take any longitudinal forces they generate via their shaft bearings, but in my head that force transmitted through the motor itself via ball races (not full on thrust bearings) is not ideal. Just my view... So all these motors should have to do is spin, all forces generated by them will be absorbed (or damped) elsewhere, that's the aim. I also wanted to build the driveline in one assembly rather than rely on the hull itself for alignment. It's going to be a large wooden hull after all that may flex.
As always, we'll all have to wait to see if all the effort is worthwhile..!
Very best regards and a Happy New Year to all.
David.
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Hi Derek
Just found these earlier images, I was checking the fit of the thrust bearings in the housing.
This shows the motor end of the thrust assembly at the point it mates with the motor mount.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/02/PSX_20230102_194528.jpg)
The hole is 7mm, to take the 5mm propshaft.
Then the assembly holds one thrust bearing on each side.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/02/PSX_20230102_194650.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/02/PSX_20230102_194627.jpg)
The collar and the coupling are machined to keep the thrust bearings centralised.
Best regards
David.
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Beats my plastic I found in an old tool box .... %)
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Thanks David
I now understand the concept set for the thrust group for each of your drive lines
Have ordered a dual set of AYX0619 [6mm x 19mm] caged needle roller components
The challenge I have is to contain, or restrict longitudinal movement in a Y2DR steam engine crankshaft
The engine has one spare 20mm space between journals, so hope to fabricate a housing to contain the trust components
regards Derek
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Hi Derek
I guess this comes down to what fabrication tools you have available, do you have a thread running on the forum here documenting the project..?
I find it a challenge (that I enjoy most of the time...) to create the parts I need with the modest machine tools that I have. I have to plan well ahead so I don't conceive something that i then can't fabricate. Access to a machine shop and the skills to go with it would make life easier..!!!
David.
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Morning All
Not had very much time to spend on the build recently, very frustrating...
Some modest progress to report on the drivelines. I've been playing with 3D printed versions of the couplings required with the aim of seeing what dimensions work. Also to make sure it can all be actually assembled when in the boat, so for instance be able to replace the centre of the coupling without a full motor removal. But now moving to the aluminium fabrication stage. Motor end first, this (in black plastic) is an idea of what I'm aiming for in terms of machining the lugs, and next to it an aluminium blank.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/17/20230117_151832-Mayhem.jpg)
And then a couple of jigs to hold the blanks for machining and to act as guides. (Santa didn't bring a CNC mill...) The guides will be sacrificial for the final stage of machining, so printed one per coupling end.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/17/20230117_151740-Mayhem.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/17/20230117_152629-Mayhem.jpg)
The holes in the jigs at the base are drill guides for the eventual use of grub screws that will lock the coupling to the shaft, and while in the jig will have bolts inserted to keep everything rigid while clamped in the mill.
I've then got the coupling centres printed in (a rather attractive lime green...) TPU, a more flexible filament than the standard PLA printing material.
This shows where the initial slots will be milled out, 3mm...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/17/20230117_151805-Mayhem.jpg)
I'm working on the coupling blanks for the prop shaft end now (and for a shiny new 3mm mill cutter to arrive), they're a little different as they need to centre the (reverse) thrust bearing. So the coupling section that has the grub screw will be a little larger in diameter (16mm, same as the thrust bearing) and have a small shoulder on the thrust bearing end to locate the bearing and centre it.
What could possibly go wrong..??!!
David.
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Beautiful engineering such a pity it all gets hidden the boat :D
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Hi Phil, thanks..! And assuming this ever materialises into a viable boat, we'll know it's there..!
Best regards
David.
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:-))
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:-)) :-)) Nice
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Thanks for that Dave..!
Been busy with the mill. 3mm slots first.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/21/PSX_20230121_181849.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/21/PSX_20230121_181919.jpg)
Then a 10mm mill to take out 3 of the lugs.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/21/PSX_20230121_181955.jpg)
To end up with this.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/21/PSX_20230121_182013.jpg)
Then remove the guide jig...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/21/PSX_20230121_182031.jpg)
Still needs a bit of finishing but quite pleased with the result and the technique seems to work. Need to make the remaining three parts to make up the two couplings now...
Here with a centre inserted.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/21/PSX_20230121_182048.jpg)
And here with a 3D printed part to show what I'm aiming for.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/21/PSX_20230121_182119.jpg)
Best regards to all
David.
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First coupling pretty much ready. A bit more milling on the second to go.
Inserts are flexible but strong enough I think. Not sure how far over the top I'm going... But hoping that the flexible centre damps some of the sound from the motor getting to the hull via the propshaft.
We'll see.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/24/PSX_20230124_161910.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/24/PSX_20230124_161856.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/24/PSX_20230124_161836.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/24/PSX_20230124_160826.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/24/PSX_20230124_160859.jpg)
I do need to trim a couple of mm in the overall length so they fit properly in the mount. Pics to follow.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Nice bit of engineering on these coupling 😀😀
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Now have the drive trains pretty much sorted.
Had to remake the thrust collars, first ones didn't have enough diameter to take the grub screws properly.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/PSX_20230126_172806.jpg)
And on the coupling, machined them a little to seat the 'reverse' thrust bearing.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/PSX_20230126_172743.jpg)
Then assembled everything less the motors. It's important that the motors can be added when the shaft and mounts are installed in one piece like this, so they can be removed without taking out a load of the other hardware too. So the coupling on the motor end can slide up the motor shaft to be installed, then mated with the other side of the coupling and locked onto the shaft.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/PSX_20230126_172715.jpg)
To end up with this.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/26/PSX_20230126_172832.jpg)
Have to admit, Stbd is silky smooth and aligned well. Port has a tight spot, will have to investigate that. Otherwise pleased with the result. Full isolation of the watercooled motors and thrust taken by the mounts.
This part of the build has taken longer than I'd thought. But should be moving on to other areas now. And that means a drive out to get some wood...
Best regards to all.
David.
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Great piece of work yet again and it'll be interesting to see how you deal with the Portside tight spot :-)
Ray.
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Hi Ray
Thanks for that. While the lathe was warmed up I machined a couple of brass discs for the vibration motor and silver soldered them together. This is going to be active while the 'startup' sound is running, hopefully to vibrate the hull as a V8 would while being cranked. Case is 3D printed, motor is a 300rpm 12v unit, it outputs via a 4mm shaft with a flat on it so I've added a grub screw to secure the rotating offset weight. I'm hoping the current chunk of 25mm diameter brass will be about right, but i can always add some more brass, or drill some out to adjust. Teflon washer as a spacer. Motor will only be called on for short 1 second periods, so wear on the bearings should be fine.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/27/PSX_20230127_173020.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/27/PSX_20230127_173042.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/27/PSX_20230127_173057.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/27/PSX_20230127_173110.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/01/27/PSX_20230127_173123.jpg)
Best regards to all.
David.
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I've started thinking about the woodwork. In particular the planking. The 1/10 Amati version uses 1.5mm x 7mm lime followed by 1.5mm x 8mm mahogany planks. I've started to wonder about the thickness of the planks I should use for a larger 1/5 build. I can get 2.4mm or 3.2mm. I'm going to use penetrating (thin) epoxy, so using two layers of 2.4mm would give me a 4.8mm hull, or 2 x 3.2mm would be 6.4mm... Less a bit for sanding. Both pretty strong when epoxied. Could mix the thickness. Maybe thicker lime layer (actually bass on this build) then a thinner skin of mahogany.
I'm hoping for some comments. My concern is getting thicker planks to conform to the curves required. Its a dilemma at the moment. The planks need to be able to bend to the fore / aft curves. But also maintain that curve over several frames, rather than straighten out between frames.
I guess weight becomes an issue too...
I suppose I can order a couple of sample planks to see what works, but would be grateful for any thoughts re how I shoud be thinking about it. Its not the sort of purchase I want to get wrong...
Best regards to all
David.
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Afternoon All
Made some progress in my head with the woodwork... But that's about it. I'm thinking that while I can use the Amati plans as a guideline for scaling up, there will need to be some fundamental changes. One of these is to use similar thickness planking to the 1/10 build, but add stringers to the hull to reduce distance between support frames, build in rigidity to reduce flexing during the build, and on the water. So current thinking is to use 2mm bass as the first layer, then 1.5mm mahogany as the second. But first to get the stringers sorted, the frames modified and so on. I also plan to add (I don't know the name...) a square section run of bass along the chine, to make the chines and frames in general firmer.
In the meantime, been playing with the 3D printer and working on a set of docklights, and how to fabricate the cabin vents and cleats.
This is the full sized Dock Lights:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/Screenshot_20230129_142647_Adobe-Acrobat-Mayhem.jpg)
And I'm approaching in a similar way, a lamp (for a 5mm LED) in a housing with a flange, then an acetate sheet and a brass frame over the top, to be chromed.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/20230204_123441-Mayhem.jpg)
Printed a couple of guides for cutting and drilling the acetate and brass. Screwholes are just pilot holes at the moment so look a bit out of scale.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/20230204_123425-Mayhem.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/20230207_100441-Mayhem.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/20230207_100504-Mayhem.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/20230207_100510-Mayhem.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/20230207_100536-Mayhem.jpg)
I plan to spray the plastic parts with a few coats of white primer, and eventually gloss white. The lamps are a push fit into the housing so I can build these up with wire tails and add them in when ready.
The deck vents are quite prominent on the forward deck of the Aquarama, at 1/5 they're about 48mm in diameter, I want to machine them from 50mm diameter brass bar as one piece if I can... I've put the vent together as a 3D printed object so I have the dimensions sorted, then designed a jig to hold and wrap around the printed vent for the milling phase, and drilling the screwholes around the flange.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/20230204_123534-Mayhem.jpg)
A work in progress, waiting for the brass bar to arrive.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/20230204_123524-Mayhem.jpg)
And started to look at how the cleats could be fabricated. Again the large single cleat on the forward deck is a Riva statement piece, so I'd like to fabricate in brass so it can be shaped and eventually added to the parts to be chromed. at 1/5 its 50mm long, so I'm using same approach of 3D printed jigs to hold the components for machining. These are the Riva items:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/Screenshot_20230129_142219_Adobe-Acrobat-Mayhem.jpg)
And my starting point...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/07/20230207_124659-Mayhem.jpg)
I've since cut and drilled the 'plate' shown above with the grey template, that's fine, and the easy bit. And the two grey holders at lower right, the right one has an 8mm hole straight down the middle to hold the rear upright of the cleat for machining on the lathe. The left one has an 8mm hole with a 10 degree angle on it, as the forward upright of the cleat is inclined forward, so this is my attempt to create similar. Initial machining is to add a 3mm spigot / locating pin on the end of the uprights to locate them in the base plate ready for silver soldering. The uprights will also be milled to flatten the sides a shade, then an 8mm mill at the top to allow a blend to the top bar of the cleat... Then silver solder it all together and try to profile it...
We shall see..!
Best regards to all.
David.
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Evening All
Well that didn't all go to plan... Royal Mail delivered me an empty box, no sign of the 50mm brass bar. Someone has a nice paperweight.... So the vents are pushed back til a replacement arrives.
The 3D printed jigs for the cleats were a failure. Couldn't get them to grip the brass. So took a simpler approach, this was as cut, machined and milled.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/10/PSX_20230210_191433.jpg)
And this is current state. Some profiling, smoothing and polishing to go, but shape is starting to appear.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/10/PSX_20230210_191507.jpg)
Best regards to all.
David.
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You’re work amazes me. :-))
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Hey Stuw, thanks for that..!
Some progress on a few fronts since last post, including finally the creation of some sawdust...!
The dock lights. I've applied plastic primer, then some white spray gloss to the housings, and purchased some 20mm diameter LED reflector / collimators... They need some cutting down to fit in the housings, to 17mm, but could be interesting. They're £3.99 on Amazon for 10. ( [size=78%]https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B011HFSIDM (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B011HFSIDM)[/size][size=78%] ) [/size]Seems they have an 8 degree 'viewing angle', which I assume means they pull the LED beam together like a full sized reflector. They've made of solid plastic so I guess act like a lens, I've not seen or used them before...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/21/20230221_151045-Mayhem.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/21/20230221_151040-Mayhem.jpg)
I'm think 5mm high brightness warm white LEDs. I'll post the results.
Here's the housings at the moment:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/21/20230221_151135-Mayhem.jpg)
I've been modifying the stern half of the hull. It's quite useful that the keel is in two parts, makes it a bit more manageable at this stage.
These are the frames pretty much just scaled up from the Amati 1/10 plans:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/21/20230217_130855-Mayhem.jpg)
And then after some attention with saws and drills of various sizes and shapes...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/21/20230221_145604-Mayhem.jpg)
Holes are mainly to allow passage of wires and tubes rather than weight saving. So much easier to do at this stage. Everything is dry fit right now.
One of the electronics packages is shown in its correct location, both can now be recessed well into the frames making space in the hull for the LiPos and ESC box. LiPos will sit low in the hull with the option to stack two to run in parallel. You can just make out the cut outs that will take longitudinal stringers, these will be cut from 6mm ply, be about 40mm deep and run from the motor mounts to the transom. They're 10mm apart to accommodate the prop and rudder tubes, and they'll provide a strong mount for the P brackets. These are not on the 1/10 build, but I'm hoping they'll add serious stiffening to the 1/5 hull.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/21/20230221_145804-Mayhem.jpg)
Finally for today... The 50mm brass bar for the vents arrived, but I've not got beyond mounting it in the lathe... So, this is the starting point.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/21/20230220_170552-Mayhem.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/21/20230220_170605-Mayhem.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/21/20230220_170627-Mayhem.jpg)
I'm flitting around various parts of the build... I think it gives me time to consider what comes next with the various different assemblies. (Also, I get in trouble if I create too much dust... %) [size=78%] )[/size]
That's about it for now.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Hi David, I have to admire the way you manage to plan your way around the build and the accuracy needed.
I guess that flitting about does help to focus the mind.
Cheers,
Ray.
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Think i'd be inclined to put a thrust pad and tailstock support on the end of that lump of brass rather than the overhang.
Regards Ian.
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Hmmm, I did think that was a bit marginal. I have a tailstock centre and can use that to avoid mishap. It'll be quite light machining with that length of brass, just to cut the outer edge of the vent down to the flange, then I'm thinking start a cut with the parting cutter and use that as a hacksaw guide to finish the cut. Then I'll have a 10mm ish disc of brass that I can reverse and put in the chuck to take out the interior, then it goes into the mill to take out the vents.
Thanks for the input..!
David.
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Not a criticism of your obvious expertise in machining David but SOME observers might try to emulate with a suicide cut. With a thrust pad, you could probably (with a thin parting tool) leave just enough to use a saw to do final release?
Regard Ian.
Used this method to make 6 brake pistons in St Stl 2" (50mm) dia for Brembo/Guzzi calipers.
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Afternoon All..!
A little progress to report, not as much as I'd hoped, but isn't that always the way...
@Ian, all feedback gratefully received, I like being on the forum for that very reason. When I just have myself to discuss best approach to whatever I'm doing, I tend to agree with myself... And that's not always a good thing..!
So, here's the 50mm bar with tailstock centre to keep it under control, I don't have a thrust pad... So did take it slowly.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/24/20230222_120218-Custom.jpg)
Taken down to 48mm and tested with the guide.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/24/20230222_120255-Custom.jpg)
Parted off with a parting tool and hacksaw.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/24/20230223_095756-Custom.jpg)
Then the vent reversed (protected with some masking tape), back in the chuck, faced and marked for boring out.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/24/20230223_160645-Custom.jpg)
Then drilled to give me a depth to work to, and bored out.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/28/20230226_095659-Mayhem.jpg)
And the result, extra cut on the flange is 1mm deep to take some acetate sheet.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/28/20230226_124308-Mayhem.jpg)
Then into the guides to have the flange mounting holes drilled.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/28/20230228_094308-Mayhem.jpg)
Then countersunk and mounted in the guides with M2 bolts. On the model the bolts will be M1.6.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/28/20230228_151556-Mayhem.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/28/20230228_151551-Mayhem.jpg)
The flats on the underside of the guides are to help mounting in the mill. Then a 6mm end mill to take out the two edge cuts, and a 4mm to start on the centre cuts.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/28/20230228_151537-Mayhem.jpg)
And that's as far as I've got today... So, two more cuts on that first vent will give me the 'bars' of the vent, probably a bit of filing to round off the edges. I'll post an update when they're both milled.
In other news... I produced a few versions of these 3D printed ESC case mounts before getting it right. They sit on the keel and bolt through two of the frames so the ESC case has a firm base. I will be using a thin piece of foam to isolate the case from the mount so no sound vibrations are passed to the hull, or are at least reduced.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/28/20230226_130144-Mayhem.jpg)
And with M4 threaded inserts.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/28/20230226_130928-Mayhem.jpg)
And in place, dry fit at the moment.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/28/20230226_131620-Mayhem.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/02/28/20230226_131615-Mayhem.jpg)
That's about it for today...
Very best regards to all.
David.
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Hi David, well impressed with yet more of your superb milling and turning skills and, of course, the 3D printed parts and how these things come together.
Looking forward to seeing more of your progress :-))
Cheers,
Ray.
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Afternoon Ray
Thanks for that..! Finished with one of the vents in the mill today.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/01/20230301_154707-Custom.jpg)
And out of the guide:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/01/20230301_170638-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/01/20230301_170632-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/01/20230301_170652-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/01/20230301_170644-Custom.jpg)
Need to get second vent milled, then some finishing for both.
Best regards
David.
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Coming along nicely David, which milling machine are you using ?
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Really impressive work for a "Toy" lathe/mill. O0
Regards Ian.
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I have a Clarke CL250M lathe, I've had it for about 10 years, together with the CL251 MH Mill attachment. Think I paid about £600.00 for both when new from MachineMart. I don't think either are available as Clarke products any more, but also think it's a generic lathe that's badged by a few suppliers. It's pretty basic, no compound cross slide, and it's pretty small. But it's served well for modelling work in aluminium and brass, and I use it for machining engineering plastics from time to time too. It benefits from frequent adjustments to keep the various slides free from play. Then only taking small cuts seems to keep it happy. On the Mill I use end mills from 10mm down to 3mm.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/02/20230302_171140-Custom.jpg)
It's pretty heavy (30Kg with Mill), and currently I don't have it bolted down... Not best practice... Drive belt snapped after 8 years, so I picked up a couple of spares. Otherwise keeps going.
For the price it's done and is doing well.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Hi David,
I got a Axminster SX1 milling Machine and a C2 lathe. Lath I’ve had for 12 years . The mill I got that a couple of years ago, I thought it would not get much use but it’s be invaluable.
Like you I’ve used 12 - 0.5 mm tools and tend to take small light cuts and to date I’ve not had any issues, in fact I’ve been very please with this tool.
Both my machines are bolted to the work bench.
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Which goes t show that you don't need "Heavy Metal" to achieve excellent results.
Regards Ian.
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Afternoon All
@Dave. I recognise quite a few of the components (but a few design changes) on that Axminster Mill, same components on my Clarke. Must be a big factory in China with different paint and badges at the end of the production line..! Like you I do use it a lot as a mill, also use it as a precise pillar drill.
@Ian. Yes, the smaller hardware makes me as a user more refined and precise I think, in that you really can't brute force anything. What you'd get away with on a full size (heavy metal) lathe, you just can't on the micro versions.
A modest update this week. I've produced the second vent, and got them both polished.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/07/PSX_20230307_162240.jpg)
I think they're going to look good up on the bow once chromed.
Best regards to all.
David.
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David, still following your build :-)) :-)) :-))
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Have you tried HSS turning tools for Brass Dave? Carbides with everything (Bit like Cyano) not always the answer. Not knocking the final result, just an observation.
Regards Ian.
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Hi Ian
I do have a set of HSS tools, but I don't have a grinder that I've always thought I needed to sharpen them. So I must admit that I like the replaceable carbide tip tools as I can just replace the tip when I start something that needs a good sharp tool. I'll have a go at sharpening the HSS tools, I'm guessing that you mean the shapes of the HSS tools may be more suited to brass / aluminium (rather than the carbide 'points')..?
In other news... I've got the ESC Case mounts fully sorted. I used the 3D printer and some flexible TPU filament to create some mount inserts that keep the case 100% isolated from the mounting bolts and the hull mount. Might be overkill and a waste of time, but I'll know that I tried. (To avoid any sounds from the ESCs being passed to the hull...)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_185743.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_185831.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_185915.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_190003.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_190054.jpg)
Also some progress on the dock lights to report. I reduced the diameter of the 'reflectors' a shade in the lathe, bit precarious, but got there in the end.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_190144.jpg)
This pic shows the original reflector, then cut down, then in the dock light
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_190203.jpg)
And the pair installed
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_190224.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_190240.jpg)
Need to get them powered up to see if I'm on the right track. I call them reflectors, but there's no silvering and they're solid plastic, so by changing the shape I may have altered their characteristics, I'm thinking of silver painting the outer face and seeing what happens.
Very pleased to have made some progress on the actual hull, rather than just fittings..!! I'm two years into this build, so about time I reckon.
Here's the Stringers ready to shape and install. Transom / Stern assembly in the background being glued.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_190321.jpg)
And that stern assembly in place on the keel, just dry fit.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/12/PSX_20230312_190300.jpg)
And this stringers cut to fit the frames
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/14/PSX_20230314_161025.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/14/PSX_20230314_160949.jpg)
Again still dry fit, but nice and tight, some shaping left to do, and some holes to drill. The 'underside' of the stringers is deliberately protruding beyond the frames so I can plane them flush and plank over them once bonded in. The stringers not part of the Amati design, just my attempt to add some stiffness. They are 10mm apart so they can act as strengthening for the prop tubes, P brackets and rudders. And provide some good alignment for that hardware.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/14/PSX_20230314_160815.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/14/PSX_20230314_160934.jpg)
P Brackets will need some sort of padded insert, and rudder tubes will need boring out a shade.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/14/PSX_20230314_160914.jpg)
But finally feeling like a model boat project rather than a model engineering exercise... Flat sections of the hull are bases for the motor mounts. And some comparison with my 86cm 1/10 Aquarama...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/14/PSX_20230314_161054.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/14/PSX_20230314_161111.jpg)
Finally. I have an order in for 100 Mahogany and 80 Lime planks... Hopefully picking them up next week. 2m lengths.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Everything coming together nicely and thanks for the write up, it helps in understanding what you're looking to achieve.
Aye,
Ray.
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Agree. Looks like a boat to me. What a project! :-))
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Afternoon All
And Hey Stuw, certainly feels like an epic from this side of the build too..!
It was my birthday last week, and so I got a new toy...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/20/PSX_20230320_163801.jpg)
And once I'd got my head around it, I love it. Its the smallest Proxxon Scroll Saw, the 230/E. My rookie error was to install the provided blade (pinless) but to not fully seat it in the lower clamp, the result being the 'toothless' part of the blade was above the main plate for part of the cut... And so I was initially a bit underwhelmed as it was taking an age to cut anything.... Then I added an LED worklight to the area and realised my error... An adjustment later, and all was well. Also realised the 'foot' has to be adjusted to the height of the wood being cut. Very impressed to be honest, I know it's modest given the range of scrollsaws out there, but it's now cutting through 6mm birch ply as fast as I need, and very accurately. Together with the Proxxon bandsaw, which I'm also very happy with, I have no excuses when it comes to cutting model sized wood...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/20/PSX_20230320_163849.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/20/PSX_20230320_163825.jpg)
So I've made a start on a few of the parts that I've recently scaled and printed.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/20/PSX_20230320_163735.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/20/PSX_20230320_164046.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/20/PSX_20230320_163922.jpg)
I'm using the sample blades supplied but have ordered some spare straight and spiral cut blades to try. Need a finer blade too I think, I've noticed the cut is not as clean as the bandsaw, or maybe that can be improved with experience. Any recommendations for optimal scroll blades for cutting 3 to 6mm ply..?
Very best regards to all.
David.
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Morning All
A little more progress to report, been looking at supporting and securing the electronics cases and batteries.
The electronics cases sit to port and stbd of the batteries, so I've cut some 6mm ply to go around the base of each case, these pieces will be held by a couple of screws so that removal allows the case to be removed too. I think they'll keep wiring out of view too so make the build look tidier. Been through 3 sheets of 4 x 2 ft 6mm ply so far, and just ordered some more. Also cut some bases for the battery compartments. Pretty much everything in sight is still dry fit at the moment (except the rear hatch frame) so I can modify the frames and keel as I build in the subsections. I'm now way off piste from the Amati plans. Also using some 3mm birch ply for some non structural parts.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/29/PSX_20230329_094133.jpg)
Still not sure about how much battery to build in, but I will be able to stack the LiPos and use in parallel if needed.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/29/PSX_20230329_094150.jpg)
And the ancillary battery will sit in the middle.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/03/29/PSX_20230329_094228.jpg)
It just works out that the battery compartments are longer than the batteries, I think I can leave it like that so I can move the batteries for / aft if I need to alter weight distribution later.
I'm also working on the exhausts a little, developing a 3D mount that uses the ply stringers as a fixing point, and thinking through how best to waterproof the exhausts as they pass through the transom, they'll need to be removable. The original Amati kit uses very short cosmetic exhaust stubs that don't really penetrate the hull. Pictures on next update.
I've been told by John at Jotika that the planks are now cut and ready to collect, now need to get a date for day trip to pick them up..!
Very best regards to all.
David.
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Hi David
Stirling work as usual and making real progress now.
As far as scroll saw blades go, I use Olson, which is one make recommended on woodwork forums. I did some reading up on the subject and bought various types of blades as I was looking for a fine cut as well. The ones producing the finest cut tend to be the pinless type but I rarely use them as they are fiddly to fit in my Record scroll saw (especially when having to remove and refit for cutting out internal sections) and you can't turn them through 90 degrees to cut longer pieces. For the thicknesses of ply you mention I nearly always use pinned blades now - 15 TPI (Ref. 41101) and 18.5 TPI (Ref. 42401) - these are 5" that I use. The latter used where less splintering is required and tighter turns. Both are pretty good though and as long as you cut a little way from the line and sand to the finished size then you get a good finish. The pinless blades I have are 12 TPI PGT (Ref. 45502).
This is a useful reference:
https://www.olsonsaw.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2020-scroll-chart-WEB.pdf
Chris
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Chris
Much appreciate the info on saw blades, I might just get it right now next time :-))
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Afternoon Chris
Very useful PDF re the scrollsaw blades, I'd been guessing at which blades to choose, I'll be taking a good look at that table. The Proxxon uses pinless, I'm finding the current (proxxon) blades are a bit unpredictable in terms of the direction they cut, behaving like they have a twist in them, or maybe I'm applying too much pressure to the cut. It's all a learning curve... (No pun intended)
Some more progress to report on the build.
Cut the sun deck, it's quite a significant component as it's quite large, has a frame, and then the base of the sundeck has to be removed in a single inside cut.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/04/PSX_20230404_164803.jpg)
It went OK, had to use a little filler to lose the pilot hole that I had to use to start the cut.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/04/PSX_20230404_164740.jpg)
And in position.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/04/PSX_20230404_164833.jpg)
Then I've temporarily aligned the bow with the stern section, and the 1/10th for comparison.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/04/PSX_20230404_164850.jpg)
And then cutting some pieces that span the bow and stern sections.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/04/PSX_20230404_164911.jpg)
Had a bit of a busy couple of weeks so plank collection will be after Easter.
Very best regards to all.
David.
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Hi David - you made a good job of cutting that out. Yes, I find sometimes that even though ply has laminates with the grain laid in different directions the piece has to be angled quite a bit on occasions to achieve the cut in the direction required. Sometimes I can cut nice and straight and other times it's all over the place!
Chris
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More great progress David and excellent job on the one piece cut out. No Pressure!
Also thanks to Chris and others for some very useful tips. I’m thinking of getting a scroll saw one day so interested to see all this info.
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Thanks Both.
@Chris, well that makes me feel a bit better, in that you also find the blade does it's own thing sometimes. I can end up holding the piece offset at 10/15° sometimes to get the blade cutting along a line.
@Stuw, the scrollsaw is allowing some work that I can't do with the bandsaw (inside cuts) and with attention gives more precision and consistency that I could achieve with a coping saw or similar. In fact without a laser CNC I think it was the only way to get that sunbed / hatch out of the frame. I'm using a quite bright LED work light clamped to fully illuminate the blade and cut, and an extra pair of glasses to make sure I stay on course...! The scrollsaw has a built in air blower that is really useful to keep the working area clear, and when a vacuum is used on the extraction port it sucks dust from the underside of the wood being cut. I have noticed that on occasion I've not used the vacuum, and have felt the wood jamming, I suspect from a build up of sawdust on the underside.
Best regards
David.
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Evening All
Some progress to report. I've been busy on the PC printing off some more parts that have been enlarged, and cutting them out, but not yet fitted them to the hull, getting ready to dry fit them. I think if I sneeze too close the the sections of hull they'll fall apart. Still not much glued. But I am still finding holes that need to be drilled, and cut outs that need power tools, so happy with the approach of not gluing at this stage.
Also been busy with the exhausts, or at least getting ready for the exhausts. I need to join the brass stubs to the plastic manifolds, I was thinking silicone pipe would do it, then tried 3D printing with TPU as for this application I just need the flexibility, not heat resistance. And they seem fine, they're an interference fit, so should keep things water tight, but be removable. Also able to build a step into the printed tubes, so the inside diameter is 25mm at one end and 23mm at the other.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/11/PSX_20230411_172149.jpg)
And readers that have built the Amati version may recognise some extra cut outs on the main transom frame, these are for the exhausts and the stringers.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/11/PSX_20230411_172109.jpg)
Some progress at the bow, I have started using glue here as I can't see any need to rework this area, it then gives me an anchor point to start shaping some of the other bow woodwork. Then checking the fit of a few other 6mm ply parts, so far so good. I need to reprint a couple of the guide clamps that I'm using to maintain alignment up at the bow as the 6mm reinforcement sections either side of the keel are now taking that part of the keel to 18mm.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/11/PSX_20230411_172128.jpg)
That's about it for now.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Enjoying your modelling David. :-))
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Hi David, good to see your progress and still enjoying your updates :-))
Ray.
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Afternoon All
Another Tuesday update. A little more progress around the bow, added the side padding parts to the keel, I think these just give a bit more stiffness and area to attach the planks to once the sanding gives the right profile for planking. And the revised 18mm clamp in place to keep everything lined up. Frames are still dry fit.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/18/PSX_20230418_162811.jpg)
I've been spending time getting the fit of the side ply parts up at the bow right, also reinforcing here and there on the frames to give more surface area to glue to. Not sure if I need to, but better to build it too strong rather than too weak...
I've brought the two halves together again for a while to work on cutting out a few parts that span both halves.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/18/PSX_20230418_162623.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/18/PSX_20230418_162735.jpg)
I'm getting a but tired of moving the vacuum between power tools for dust extraction duties so am setting up a manifold of sorts with three take offs for bandsaw, scrollsaw and disc sander. The vacuum has a power take off that powers it up when an attached power tool is switched on (Vacmaster Multi 20 PTO). So I'll use a power strip from the power take off to allow multiple tools to be attached, only using one at a time of course. I've got the 3D printer busy at the moment printing 'slam gates' to control which tool gets the vacuums attention. Hoping it works out and makes switching between tools a bit more efficient than it is right now. I'll update and post pictures next time.
And finally. On a road trip tomorrow to collect the planks, looking forward to that..!
Best regards to all.
David.
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Hi David, it's good to see your progress on the boat and I've also tried to fathom out how to create a vacuum manifold so I'll be looking in on your idea(s) as well :-) .
Ray.
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Wow. Vacuum controlled by power tools. More ideas for the future!
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Hi Ray, printer is busy with slam gates and manifold parts as I type, will post some pics as soon as I have something ready. And Stuw, yes, the vacuum with PTO does work well. Basically on mine I can switch to '1' and its a normal vacuum, or '11' and it only powers up when a connected power tool is switched on. And as you can see, it's quite a modest vacuum but supports over 1700W. My power tools are in the 100W range and it works fine.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/19/PSX_20230419_145631.jpg)
So I'm back from my road trip to Droitwich where the very capable and friendly chaps at Jotika have produced the 2m planks for the Aquarama as a custom order.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/19/PSX_20230419_145604.jpg)
Plenty of work to be done before I start to use the planks, but good to know I now have them ready.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Hiya David and yeah, like you I too have a vacuum with that same switch set up. Mine is from Screwfix and is their Titan wet/dry and blow capable unit. I've had this for about 8-10 years now and it's been faultless so far. :-))
Ray.
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Afternoon All
Minor progress with a few of the hull parts and more templates created, but main effort this week has been to relocate the three bench tools, and hook up the vacuum.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/26/PSX_20230426_162058.jpg)
Made up 4 slam gates on the 3D printer, made up of a back and a front with the gate in. I've used a 25mm bore as its based around some spare vacuum hose that I had to hand, should be a bit larger really, but it seems to work. The bench tools are all pretty small to I hope it'll be OK. Bench tools are also now screwed down which is better, I was using clamps before and it became painful to keep swapping the tools. Should have done this a while ago. This setup also allows the vacuum to be in a separate room (large cupboard really) which keeps the noise down.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/26/PSX_20230426_161614.jpg)
And bolted together in open position.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/26/PSX_20230426_161633.jpg)
And closed.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/26/PSX_20230426_161649.jpg)
Then each gate gets a connector on the back, and these join to make a manifold. Vacuum hose is coming in at the left, three gates for three machines, and a fourth with just a hose on it for general tidying (and it reaches the lathe which is useful).
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/26/PSX_20230426_161808.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/26/PSX_20230426_161835.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/04/26/PSX_20230426_161850.jpg)
No excuse now... Next update should have a load more wood cut... :-))
Best regards to all.
David.
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That's a very neat setup you have there David.
Chris
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Hi Chris, thanks for that. Have to say it's working really well, I'm at the stage where a lot of wood is getting cut. So much easier / quicker / efficient having the three tools available as required.
And to underscore that... More templates being printed, some parts fit on single A4 printouts but some span several sheets so I need to line up the cut marks then tape together. Here's a few more:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/05/PSX_20230505_135110.jpg)
I had an A3 printer til a couple of years ago, it ended up on a skip as it wasn't getting used... Big mistake.
And some general shots of the current state of the build, still mainly dry fit apart from some of the sub assemblies...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/05/PSX_20230505_135144.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/05/PSX_20230505_135207.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/05/PSX_20230505_135316.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/05/PSX_20230505_135246.jpg)
Planning to get the 1/10th serviced and maybe out on the water this long weekend, getting ready for a trip to Wicksteed...
Best regards to all.
David.
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Afternoon All
Anyone who's built the Amati Riva Aquarama will know it builds bow heavy, and then can dig in at the bow when on the water. This version will have similar issues I suspect as it's heavily based on the Amati design and layout. So I've been cutting out the structural wood and have now got to the stage of having the structural parts to the correct basic shape, so have now set about lightening these structural parts, particularly at the bow.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/11/PSX_20230511_165739.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/11/PSX_20230511_165848.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/11/PSX_20230511_165900.jpg)
Some of the holes will double as cable routes, also I'm aiming to use a fan to force cooling air through the length of the hull, these holes will help.
Also taken delivery of a nice piece of mahogany, 20mm x 100mm x 600mm. Plan is to use it for things like the side rubbing strips on on the waterline either side of the Aquarama hull, also there's a 20mm thick piece of shaped mahogany used as part of the transom. It's 2 parts in the Amati Kit, would be nice to create in one piece.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/05/11/PSX_20230511_165755.jpg)
Best regards to all.
David.
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Afternoon All
Realised it was a while since last update, so here's some progress.
I've now started to bond the various pieces once they were tweaked and persuaded to fit. I'm finding that accuracy is very hard to maintain when scaling up, tolerances of transferring plans to wood, cutting that wood, is not the same as telling a laser cutter / CNC to cut another set of frames / parts... Some parts I'm having to sand to fit, some I'm actually building up a mm or so.
So the bow is now pretty much in one structural piece:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/13/20230613_170820-Custom.jpg)
The boat itself remains in two parts.
At the stern, the stringers that run either side of the shafts are now bonded to the transom and the two frames near the stern:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/13/20230610_193709-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/13/20230613_170806-Custom.jpg)
The space between the stringers has been made solid between the transom and the last frame, I've then routed out slots to take the P Brackets, also for the two exhaust stubs, and then built up and drilled for the rudder tubes. This is now a very rigid section and the running hardware should be kept well aligned.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/13/20230613_170735-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/13/20230613_170741-Custom.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/13/20230610_193658-Custom.jpg)
Also been busy getting the transom elements to all fit nicely, I'll post once that's all sorted and bonded.
The stringers are deeper than the frames so I can trim them in place to match the line of the hull.
I'm pondering the keel joint at the moment, I think some additional stiffening / strengthening is called for... On the 1/10 version its just a 3mm ply plate each side of the joint, then it relies on the planking for strength. I can do that and will with 6mm ply plates, but think I need the additional stiffening. The bow is almost a cage of ply parts, so rigidity is build in, and the stringers have made the stern part of the hull similarly rigid... I'm thinking a pair of mid hull stringers that lace into the bow and stern sections, we'll see.
That's it for now on the 1/5th.
Have had the 1/10th Aquarama out on the water a few times this year, this was in the sunshine at the excellent MBM Wicksteed event:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/13/20230527_135713-Custom.jpg)
Huge thanks to everyone involved in organising a great weekend..!
Very best regards to all.
David.
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Afternoon All
I now have the two halves of the boat joined. Next to the 1/10th for comparison, LOA 172cm.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/27/PSX_20230627_114432.jpg)
And starting to look at the motor mounts, the base 6mm ply panels are in and will now be reinforced to the keel and frames. I need to lift the motor mounts from the panels slightly to accommodate the rubber mounts and to increase the prop shaft angle slightly. So I'm 3D printing some wedges that will sit between the aluminium mounts and the ply plates. I hoping the shaft angle will end up around 9 or 10 degrees... I managed 7 degrees on the 1/10, but that used a gearbox to keep the shafts as low as possible at the motor end. This process will also give me the mount points for the P Brackets.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/27/PSX_20230627_171458.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/06/27/PSX_20230627_171512.jpg)
Best regards to all.
David.
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Following on DavidThats impressively large :o ......funny how scaling can confuse the mind >>:-( .....
Without me attempting to confuse myself, could you confirm what the all-up weight of the 1/5 Scale boat
Derek
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Hi David,
Your Build is impressive :-)) :-)) :-))
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Thanks Chaps..!
@Derek. As I understand it, the scale weight is the full sized boat weight / the cube of the scale factor. So in this case the full sized Aquarama is about 4,000kg, and the scale factor is 5 (as its a 1/5 model), so its 4000 / (5x5x5) which is 4000 / 125... Which is 32. So the 1/5 Aquarama should be around 32kg.
I'm sure there a few 'buts' in there, one of them being the longitudinal centre of gravity, which I think should be a tad aft of the centre of the waterline length. Get this wrong and the boat won't behave right on the water. So I'll be aiming to build lighter overall and especially at the bow, I think under 25kg is a reasonable target, then leave some room for ballasting to get fore/after and port/stbd balance about right. There's a related point that's beyond me to understand properly, and that's how buoyancy / displacement will affect things. I've modified the hull shape a shade as I did on the 1/10 to give a bit more lift at the bow. But I think this reduces the displacement at the bow, so the 1/10th sits a bit bow down for my taste when at rest, but does lift nicely when under way...
Short answer, I'll be building light so I can adjust when the time comes.
Best regards
David.
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Meant to add. What you see in the pic above is 5.5kg, everything is mainly 6mm birch ply. Each motor on its mount with prop tube is 1.0kg. The LiPos are also just under 1kg each, I'm thinking add 2 or 4 depending on whether they help with ballasting.
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Hi David
The Fairey Huntsman 31 can suffer from a bow down attitude at rest due to the bow being streamlined and its narrow vee shape which doesn't provide much buoyancy. Sterns are a different matter if they are wider and are flat bottomed or a shallower vee than the bow.
My Huntress with stern-drive is heavy at the rear (I haven't checked where the balance point is) and yet sits bang on the waterline, the hull being so bouyant. Away from the bow planing hulls seem to be very toletant of weight distribution so as you say building the bow light is the key as less buoyancy is provided in that area.
Chris
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Afternoon All
Back on the case with the 1/5 build.
I've started to line up and secure the motor mounts, P brackets and rudders. Still work in progress, cutting shafts to correct length, trimming here and there to get the fit correct.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/17/PSX_20231117_190223.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/17/PSX_20231117_191518.jpg)
The motors have to be able to be taken out and reinstalled installed when the mounts remain attached to the thrust bearings / shafts, so the coupling on the motor end can be slid up the motors drive shaft to give clearance, then secured back in place to mesh with the shaft. Flats have been ground on the motors and prop shafts wherever you see grub screws on the couplings and thrust collar. This lets the motors be lifted straight out of the mounts after removing the 4 bolts going into the rubber mounts.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/17/PSX_20231117_191453.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/17/PSX_20231117_191552.jpg)
P brackets are held on two 4mm bolts (then filled with epoxy when lined up), just the rear bolts initially to allow alignment.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/17/PSX_20231117_191704.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/17/PSX_20231117_191608.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/17/PSX_20231117_191622.jpg)
Motor mounts are secured to the hull with 4 x M6 SS bolts each.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/17/PSX_20231117_191642.jpg)
And before I get the epoxy out on the prop tubes / mounts and rudders, I've decided to use some 2mm ply for the aft 50% of the bottom of the hull. The Aquarama hull is flat enough in that area to get away with it I think, then I'll carry on the forward section with 2mm lime planks. I'm just wanting to get the cut outs done for the prop tubes, P brackets and rudders. Rough cuts at this stage. I'm thinking to then install the rudder tubes, then the ply hull panels, then final alignment and fixing of the P brackets, prop tubes and motor mounts. Plus a bit more reinforcement below the motor mounts before the ply panels go on, they will take the thrust, so ideally they need to be stopped from parting company with the rest of the hull...
Best regards to all.
David.
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Hi David,
How are you planning on maintenance access to the motors, coupling etc
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Hi David
Taking the motor out of and installing it back into a mount is quite easy. The coupling on the motor shaft has two grub screws that once loosened allow the coupling to be retracted so it's no longer meshed with the prop shaft end of the coupling. Like this:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/17/PSX_20231117_191453.jpg)
Then four bolts taken out of the bobbin mounts and the motor lifts out.
If the mount has to come out for some reason, the flange joining the prop shaft to the thrust housing has to be split, so four allen key bolts removed. Then the flange is on same axis as the bolts that hold down the motor mounts. So the motor mount lifts out while still attached to the thrust bearing housing. Of course that's after the prop shaft has been eased out backwards.
Bit involved, but workable I think.
Best regards
David.
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A couple of pictures of the thrust bearings in the thrust housing. This one takes the forward thrust and passes it to the motor mount.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/24/PSX_20231124_163937.jpg)
And fully in place.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/24/PSX_20231124_164007.jpg)
Then other side of the mount, the thrust bearing for astern.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/24/PSX_20231124_164045.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/24/PSX_20231124_164110.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/24/PSX_20231124_164151.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/24/PSX_20231124_164218.jpg)
Also cut the exhaust stubs from 25mm od brass tube. Started to think about marking out and cutting the flanges.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/24/PSX_20231124_164745.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/11/24/PSX_20231124_164414.jpg)
Good to be making some progress again.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Evening All
Decided to carry on developing some if the internal hardware while access is easier.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/03/PSX_20231202_173228.jpg)
The rudder servos are mounted on a 3D printed carrier that clamps to and through the keel, this version moves the servos further aft. There are now panels in the floor of the battery area and L shaped panels that retain the electronics boxes.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/03/PSX_20231202_173307.jpg)
I'm thinking to mount the vibration unit on the frame ahead of the rudder servos, in the middle above with the motor sticking out forward. A 3D printed mount coming this week for this unit. . Then the vapour unit will hopefully fit between the vibration unit and the rudder servos. Port electronics box in place in the above pic.
And a better pic of the rudder linkages. 3mm steel rods, threaded into ball joint ends and aluminium servo and rudder arms.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/03/PSX_20231202_173401.jpg)
I'm hoping that the two servos will allow for some interesting tweaking of rudder response when it comes to FrSky programming.
Best regards to all.
David.
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Just caught up with your build David. Absolutely fantastic as usual! You're certainly taking model boat building to a whole new level.
Chris
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Hi Chris
Happy New Year to you..!
Thanks for that... Seems like I'm going off at a few tangents at the moment, but hopefully making progress.
The Vibration unit has had some attention:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/08/PSX_20231208_171636.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/08/PSX_20231208_171614.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/08/PSX_20231208_171658.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/08/PSX_20231208_171723.jpg)
And here it is all together:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/08/PSX_20231208_171811.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/08/PSX_20231208_171748.jpg)
And this is where it mounts:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/27/PSX_20231227_192212.jpg)
Also working on some of the cabin panels:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/27/PSX_20231227_192117.jpg)
And have another new Proxxon toy...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/PSX_20240108_150400.jpg)
I think there's a load of sanding heading my way, so I thought I needed a bit of help.
Still playing with the vapour generator... This is the latest top coming off the printer:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/PSX_20240108_150327.jpg)
Also been using the printer to create some conduits for the cables that will need to go in:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/08/PSX_20240108_150233.jpg)
And finally for now... I saw this.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2023/12/27/PSX_20231227_192551.jpg)
And I'm thinking 'boat trolly'. Apparently it's customised from a Scania Vabis bus from the 60s / 70s... Maybe I found my next project. At least for the 1/10th. I'll need a bigger car if I try for the 1/5th... Maybe a trailer.
Anyway, that's it for now.
Best regards
David.
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OK... This post should see if anyone's awake... %)
I've been giving thought to the finish of the 1/5th. It's a shade premature maybe as the hull isn't planked yet. There are however a couple of side panels in the cabin that need varnishing before they get installed. So I think it's time to evaluate how to proceed, and do some testing.
On the 1/10th I used a couple of thinned Z-Poxy finishing resin coats to seal, then thinned International Original Yacht Varnish to build up. With all the sanding in the middle. Then buffing and polishing... The finish was OK, but not the glass effect I'd been hoping and trying for.
So, Z-Poxy seems elusive to find and it has an amber tint, so I've narrowed down to Hempel 599, 'a two part epoxy with low viscosity and good penetration', its £20 for 750ml so I have some to see how it performs. In the tin it has the consistency of water. So plan it to use a brush to apply it, and I'll report back.
Then, the varnish. I don't think I gave the Le Tonk a fair evaluation last time, so I want to try again, and compare it to Epifanes High Gloss. Both have a formidable reputation, I'm going to try harder to manage the temperature and humidity, I suspect this was an issue in earlier attempts with the Le Tonk.
And I intend to thin and spray the varnish. At least test spraying...
This will mean a load of coats to build up thickness, so I can see some sort of spray booth when the time comes for the main hull.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/10/PSX_20240110_102524.jpg)
Anyway, that's my thoughts. Any comments on any of the above gratefully received. :-))
Best regards to all.
David.
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Not wishing to teach granny to suck eggs, but this is worth a look for anyone wondering how the professionals get that glass-like finish -
How To Apply Epifanes Clear Varnish (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0PiMZGD5LQ)
Greg
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Hi Greg
Not at all and thanks for sharing that link. That guy Dan Lee certainly know his stuff, its good of him to share his skills, inspiring. I have seen some of his videos on YouTube, he's been building a 1/4 scale of his 'Temptress' design. Very skilled man...
Very best regards
David.
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Evening All
I've made some progress with the hull. The motor mounts are now fixed as are the rudder tubes.
Also been working on a water inlet fitting, similar to the full set Aquarama fitting. This is the real fitting:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/21/PSX_20240121_195912.jpg)
I started with creating three brass pieces, the strainer, the plate and the threaded tube. The tube is a drilled out and machined 10mm brass bolt. Bar for the strainer is 20mm stock and plate is 2mm, plate...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/19/PSX_20240119_123119.jpg)
Milled the bar to give it a taper, then created a cavity:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/19/PSX_20240119_123149.jpg)
Then a small abrasive disc held in the lathe chuck to cut the slots:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/19/PSX_20240119_123215.jpg)
Ended up with these parts:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/19/PSX_20240119_123339.jpg)
Fitting like this:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/19/PSX_20240119_123450.jpg)
And when silver soldered and shaped:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/21/PSX_20240121_123757.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/21/PSX_20240121_123729.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/21/PSX_20240121_123702.jpg)
I don't honestly know whether the full sized Aquarama has an inlet per engine, I suspect it does, but I only need one. This will go to one pump then split into two circuits.
Best regards to all.
David.
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...been working on a water inlet fitting
This will go to one pump then split into two circuits.
Best regards to all.
David.
That's a good idea and great work in creating the fitting.
Cheers,
Ray.
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You're on the wrong forum David! Only joking, superb work as always.
Chris
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Evening All
@Chris, well one of the challenges of building at 1/5th scale is there is very little available off the shelf, so it all has to be fabricated. And as you know, I enjoy that..! I can get away with a few short cuts and interpretation on the more functional fittings as they're pretty much hidden, the challenge will ramp up with the classic Riva fittings...
The Hull is coming along. I've used 2mm ply for the aft section of the planing surface of the hull.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/29/PSX_20240129_181723.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/29/PSX_20240129_181705.jpg)
Also decided to reinforce the chines. I was going to use 10mm Square spruce, but decided to laminate several lime planks to get the shape I need. So the result is 10mm x 6mm shaped to fit. I used titebond 3, and clamped the laminate to the hull before the glue fully grabbed to get the shape. Pleased with the result.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/29/PSX_20240129_181636.jpg)
Hard to show the compound curves, might be easier once fitted to the boat...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/01/30/PSX_20240130_095647.jpg)
Next task is to cut out the frames and inset the chine rail. Nice to see the lines of the Aquarama starting to show themselves...
Best regards to all.
David.
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Crikey, with it standing on end you can appreciate how big it is! How much do you think it's going to weigh?
Even with the diversions, which you were obviously going to have to do at some point, you're making good progress.
Chris
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Hi Chris
Calculations say it can weigh 32Kg... I'd hope for closer to 25. I'll see if I can get all the hardware into the hull and get it on the scales...
Best regards
David.
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Evening All
Made some progress this weekend on the stern of the Aquarama. I'm using 2mm birch ply for the lower transom area, then 10mm x 2mm bass planks. Some shaping of the frames using the new Proxxon belt sander, then placing a single plank to butt the ply to as the starting point.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/11/PSX_20240211_193423.jpg)
Using Titebond 3 and brass pins to secure. Clamps where necessary while curing. I use a 0.8mm drill to guide the pins and prevent splitting.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/11/PSX_20240211_193510.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/11/PSX_20240211_193732.jpg)
The ply needs trimming to the hull line once glue has cured. Same with the planks once they're all in place. The planks you see above have gone on without shaping, the remainder will need some shaping to avoid gaps.
Always good to see the Aquarama shapes and curves coming out...!
Best regards to all
David.
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Wonderful !
NB: Any particular reason for using Titebond 3 as opposed to other wood glues? ?
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Cos Cascomite ain't available any more.
Regards Ian.
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Haha..! I do remember using Cascamite on my ever model boat build, a Sea Urchin, way back in the day...
I used Titebond 3 on my earlier Aquarama, its waterproof and I've probably just got used to it's flow, grip, drying time, what it's good at and not so good at. It also mixes well with sawdust to bulk it as a filler.
Regards to all.
David.
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Cos Cascomite ain't available any more.
Regards Ian.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xqXzBnZW/Casacamite1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xqXzBnZW)
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Say "Cascamite" to any builder of full size wooden boats and just watch the expression on their face! Let's just say it is not held in the highest regard.
Greg
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Evening All
Stern is coming along nicely, now planked and sanded. The Proxxon belt sander is really useful...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/13/PSX_20240213_190249.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/13/PSX_20240213_190044.jpg)
Feels like headway being made now with the hull. Over two years into this build...
Regards to all
David.
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Nice David :-)) :-)) :-))
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Blimey, it doesn't seem like that long ago when you started!
Chris
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Evening All
Quite a bit of progress made on the framework of the boat. At the stern I've got the rear hatch optimised and nicely flush with the frame that holds it in place. Cockpit area has been worked on, angled steps in front of the seats plus the panels between cockpit and cabin are added. I've started shaping the bow frames that will define the forward deck shape, a work in progress right now. Adding filler here and there as required.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/20/PSX_20240220_194138.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/20/PSX_20240220_194153.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/20/PSX_20240220_194249.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/20/PSX_20240220_194214.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/20/PSX_20240220_194401.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/20/PSX_20240220_194428.jpg)
The Belt sander is getting a workout. Working hard to ensure symmetry. I think the rear sun deck is going to get some attention from a large hole saw. It's quite heavy and doesn't need real strength.
Best regards to all..!
David.
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Evening All
Had a it of time to make some more progress with the build. I've got the chine rails attached and have done more sanding and shaping then checking with planks to see how they're going to lay.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/26/PSX_20240226_182134.jpg)
And as of today
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/26/PSX_20240226_182309.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/26/PSX_20240226_182414.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/26/PSX_20240226_182452.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/26/PSX_20240226_182527.jpg)
Also been fitting the exhaust stubs through the stern, and working out how the flanges are going to be shaped. I'm using the 3D Printer to get the shape right. The Aquarama flanges seem to have 5 holes for screws, and the flange has to attach to the pipe at around 25 degrees. So I'm printing a guide to get the holes in the right place, and another mount that's going to hold the brass flange in the lathe at the correct angle to bore out the pipes 25mm diameter... We'll have to see if it works..!
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/26/PSX_20240226_182227.jpg)
Here with a printed flange mock up
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/26/PSX_20240226_182200.jpg)
And the tool designs
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/26/PSX_20240226_181950.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/26/PSX_20240226_181929.jpg)
I'll report back...
Best regards to all
David.
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Evening All
Progress on a couple of fronts. The exhaust flanges are now created in brass cut from 50mm bar stock on the little lathe:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/PSX_20240229_193519.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/PSX_20240229_193538.jpg)
And checking fit with the drill guide:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/PSX_20240229_193600.jpg)
And parted off:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/PSX_20240229_193633.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/PSX_20240229_193659.jpg)
Used the 3D printed drilling guide to get the correct spacing of 2mm holes in the flanges:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/01/PSX_20240301_174243.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/01/PSX_20240301_174257.jpg)
Then used the cutting guide in the lathe to mount one flange at a time allowing boring out for the exhaust stub at a 25° angle, so it fits the sloped transom.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/01/PSX_20240301_174331.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/01/PSX_20240301_174349.jpg)
I need a good fit so the silver solder will flow nicely.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/01/PSX_20240301_174507.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/01/PSX_20240301_174530.jpg)
And when in place on the boat:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/01/PSX_20240301_174550.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/01/PSX_20240301_174615.jpg)
Need a little adjustment to get the flange mounting holes in the right place, but I'm pleased with the fit, next task is to silver solder, challenge there being to maintain the angle needed... Then I'm thinking to use 2mm brass inserts in the hull, and I'll need some sort of gasket to seal.
In other news I've been using the hole saw to take out some wood where its not really needed, the floor of the seating area, also the aft sundeck:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/PSX_20240229_193720.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/02/29/PSX_20240229_193737.jpg)
That's it for now.
Great weekend to all.
David.
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Looking Good! :-))
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Evening All
Thanks for that Martin..!
I've got the exhaust stubs silver soldered. Not plain sailing, the flanges were hard to hold in the correct position, maybe I should have wired them. Anyway done now. A little more polishing and they'll look the part.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/04/PSX_20240304_192044.jpg)
This is the port stub:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/04/PSX_20240304_192213.jpg)
And Stbd:
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/04/PSX_20240304_192407.jpg)
Next task will be to drill through the flanges and insert M2 inserts for the bolts. Also planning to create gaskets from thin foam to ensure a seal.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/04/PSX_20240304_191841.jpg)
On first attempt I managed to screw up the port stub as the flange holes weren't aligned properly.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/04/PSX_20240304_192623.jpg)
Got there in the end. !
Best regards to all.
David.
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M2 Brass inserts araldited and pushed in, tight fit so needed a small hammer..!
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/06/PSX_20240306_201822.jpg)
And the stubs bolted to the inserts.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/06/PSX_20240306_195818.jpg)
I need to check whether the flanges use cross head or flat heads. Allen heads are what i had available and just to check the fit.
Also started the forward planking on the hull. 2mm x 10mm bass wood.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/06/PSX_20240306_195357.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/06/PSX_20240306_195602.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/06/PSX_20240306_195653.jpg)
Best regards to all.
David.
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Evening All
Making progress with the hull planking. Gone about as far as I can for the moment, I want to add some epoxy on the inside to the areas that will become sealed when fully planked. Also need to find a way to build in a fan, but temporarily seal it from all the wood dust that's going to be coming it's way...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/08/PSX_20240308_191917.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/08/PSX_20240308_191957.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/08/PSX_20240308_192023.jpg)
I think planking is one of those things where if you ask 10 people how they do it, you get 10 different answers.
My approach for this first layer is to cut the plank appropriately to size, clamp it into place. Mark it up and trim it as required for a good fit, and do this with its pair on the other side. Then drill where the plank crosses a frame using a small hand drill, while making sure the plank is firmly pushed against the previous plank. Drilled same size as the brass pins, and about 3/4 the length of the pins. Aim is to firmly hold the plank and not split it.
Then I glue up the hull to take the plank and hammer the pins home. I use small clamps between frames to make sure the new plank lays alongside the previous packs also larger clamps to apply pressure to keep the planks tight together along the glue line.
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/08/PSX_20240308_192247.jpg)
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2024/03/08/PSX_20240308_192356.jpg)
Leave it for about an hour for the Titebond to cure, then repeat...
Best regards to all.
David.