Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: wombat on June 12, 2006, 10:18:09 pm
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Hi All,
This was opened up on the main section, but probably is more appropriate here. I am documenting the build of my Aziz here - the build manual is a PDF, but I am also running a blog - please feel free to leave comments. You wil lhave to register, but this is a mere formality - it is just so I can lock out any idiots that try to ruin the site
http://www.floatingwombat.me.uk
Follow the link for boats - there are a lot of gaps in the site at the moment as it is very much a work in progress
Wombat
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Hiya Wombat!
I had a good look at the Aziz when I was in the Model Slipway 'shop', if that's what it can be called. It looks like a real beaut! Nice and big and bright red, lots of detail but not too many tiny fiddly bits to bog you down. I actually thought of building one as my next model, but it might be a bit big for my tiny flat!
I'll keep looking at your blog and seeing how you do. Good luck!
Julian.
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Hi Julian,
Yes there was something about Aziz that attracted me the first time I saw it - though I did regret it when the kit came ;D
Please feel free to add your comments to the blog - I would welcome comment from anyone, particularly if they see me doing anything stupid (very likely)
Tim (the Wombat)
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Hi All,
Just an update to move me back to the top of the list? :o
Well after a lot of fun I have got the Kort tubes on - getting on for three days it has taken. I think I have taken up the wrong hobby.
Please look in on the blog and let me know what you think
Wombat
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Wombat,
Read the Kort nozzle part, your build made me feel much better about my 'fun' with the 'Wyeforce's Kort nozzles! I didn't fair the nozzles like you did, but wish I had. Also gives me something to think about/do while I'm waiting on whatever it is I'm waiting on (nice way of saying I'm bored again).
Making things absolutely 'perfect' is always very satisfying. It's also very unlikely (at least for me) and 'close' really does work well. I know that sounds like an excuse and it is. But, having lived with 'me' for a number of years I've found that no matter what others think, I'm really not 'perfect'. (How's that for the proper blend of humility and tact?)
Don't you dare stop now!
- 'Doc
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Tim,
I've just been looking at your PDF build manual for Aziz (great idea by the way), and wondered if you've made the same minor mistake I did when I installed my bow thruster when I saw your photos of it.
The natural thinking is to install the bow thruster housing in a vertical fashion, so the housing is at 90 degrees to the bottom of the hull and the motor sat on top.
I did that, and everything works well.
However...if you ever need to get the thruster assembly out again (which I did ::)) the securing screws are very close to the underside of the deck, and one of them is actually located (on mine) right in line with the fore-aft centreline of the boat facing toward the bow. I ended up having to find a suitable plastic handled instrument screwdriver, cutting most of the handle off and then performing a double-joint contortion with my fingers and wrist to locate and undo the 'hidden' screw.
If you're going to be facing the same problem, you may want to rotate the thruster through 45 degrees so the motor housing is actually pointing into the interior of the boat instead of towards the underside of the fore deck. :)
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Hi Doc,
I don't think SWMBO will allow me to give up on it - I have blown nigh on a month's beer budget on it. I hope it will get easier once I have got the stuff below the waterline done. At the moment I am fed up of wet-and-dry... >:( >:( >:(
I don't know about making it perfect - that would be a bit of a tall order for me. As long as it doesn't look too disgraceful. I would hate for it to look like I had built it wearing boxing gloves.
Dave, I think I have made the same mistake as you? :o :o :o :o Mine is upright as well. I was thinking about canting it over at 45 degrees, but after doing a trial assembly I didn't think that I would be taking it apart again once it was in.
Tim (the Wombat)
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Hi Doc,
I don't think SWMBO will allow me to give up on it - I have blown nigh on a month's beer budget on it. I hope it will get easier once I have got the stuff below the waterline done. At the moment I am fed up of wet-and-dry... >:( >:( >:(
Hah! Just wait until you have to start cleaning up the individual white metal parts! You'll be dreaming of the halcyon days of wet-an-dry then mate ;D
I don't know about making it perfect - that would be a bit of a tall order for me. As long as it doesn't look too disgraceful. I would hate for it to look like I had built it wearing boxing gloves.
From the photos I've seen so far it looks like it's going to be a great model. I've seen one model of Aziz that looked like it was built by a blind modeller with arthritis, but I quickly reminded myself that for all I knew it could have been built by someone that was partially sighted with or without arthritis. I think we're too consumed by the 'perfect' model, when the important thing is that the builder enjoys themselves and are happy with the result when it's finished...
Dave, I think I have made the same mistake as you :o :o :o :o Mine is upright as well. I was thinking about canting it over at 45 degrees, but after doing a trial assembly I didn't think that I would be taking it apart again once it was in.
Tim (the Wombat)
Errr... I didn't think mine would have to come out again either, but it was jamming when the boat was finished and had to come out for readjustment. As I say though, it can be done with a cut-down instrument screwdriver, lots of patience (accompanied by lots of swearing) and a small degree of prayer ;)
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as an addendum - I thought the build manual was the best way of keeping a record of the things I get up to. It will help me in the future and might give others a few hints or ideas.
I use OpenOffice for it - I prefer it to Micro$haft Worm and it is my favourite price. Best of all for this, it generates PDFs directly.
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Well there is another update on the web-site. Please feel free to look in and comment
Tim (the Wombat)
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Tim,
To remove the slop in the rudder, it could be a good idea to use ball joints as connectors instead of the z bend wire that way there will be no excess play in the control surface..
Roy
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Hi Roy,
Thanks for the comment, that had already struck me - after a bit of looking and examining, I have a set of ball joint and clevis rods ready to go in. That is todays job assuming I can get No.2 Sprog sorted out for its school trip (1 week in Prague) and finding a source of deck green.
Then it is getting the electrical installation done.
Tim (the Wombat)
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Tim,
I think the control arms for the rudders is the only thing I really don't care for that came from 'Slipway'. They have been a constant pain, not just in one particular portion of my anatomy, butt in all of it! I know how to use them corretly now, but that doesn't make up for the aggrivation I've put my self through. Also learned about gluing the two metal halves of a rudder together (another one of my 'better ideas', and just exactly how quick desolved duck 'poop' will desolve glue). Making provision/modifications to be able to reach the tops of the rudders is a very nice idea. Wish I'd have thought of that sooner...
- 'Doc
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Hi Doc,
I'm not too sure about them either - they just don't "feel" right. I guess a white metal casting is cheaper than buying in a part. Still they are in now.
I am about to glue up the rudders, what glue did you use. I was planning to use 300Kg rated epoxy (not the rapid stuff). I ask because we have rather a lot of ducks and geese on our pond so there will be plenty of doings in there
Tim (the Wombat)
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Hi All,
Not sure I want to post up any more looking at the standard of other peoples builds - I am feeling rather inadequate. Still, you all deserve a bit of a giggle so here is the latest installment of pillocks progress.
I have updated the blog and the build manual for anyone who is interested.
So what is the progress....
The rudder mechanism has been updated and the deck is in place, also I have started on the life belts, barrels and tugger winches.
Please have a look at the blog and the build manual and give me any feedback
Thanks
Tim the Wombat
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Got the wrong attachment for the rudder mechanism - here is the one I intended
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"Inadequate"? If someone ever tells you that they have never felt that way about any boat they've built, you may safely tell them to spread that stuff in the garden where it'll do the most good.
- 'Doc
(Except me, of course! I am 'perfect', a 'genius', 'rich', 'handsome', and very talented and considerate 'cuz I also hide those qualities very well.) ... look at that! My neighbor's lawn just grew 2 inches.
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Hi All,
Not sure I want to post up any more looking at the standard of other peoples builds - I am feeling rather inadequate. Still, you all deserve a bit of a giggle so here is the latest installment of pillocks progress.
I have updated the blog and the build manual for anyone who is interested.
Hi Tim,
Cool web site and model , matey.
Tim, the very most important thing about modelling is "you do it for yourself" ....
everytime matey.
Enjoy what you do ;D
Each step you take will be better than the last, each boat you build will be another learning curve, but all that you have learned previously will come into play.
You will learn new skills along the way.. new challenges from different sources.
( Even after building around 30 models, I STILL am useless at soldering, and wire bending !! )
Trust me, you will improve.....accept advice, seek advice,
You will also become a master at covering up the c_o_c_k ups too. ( I know I am !)
You are doing just great matey, and finally, just remember how few other modellers
IN THIS VERY FORUM , have had the balls to
a) make their own web site, and
b) show off their models, warts an all..... ??
Not that many, Is there ? Given the number of members.... so take heart Tim........ you are already an accomplished modeller.
I for one look forward to seeing more of your work ;D
Best Wishes
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Thank you for your kind words.
I agree you build models for yourself (unless of course you are doing it as a business or for pin money) - but the investment is very heavy, you don't want to ruin it by sloppy work.
I find the examples of other peoples work here very inspiring - it shows just what can be achieved. I am finding the dropped b*ll*ks on the way - this is one reason for the web-site, documenting it all will hep prevent making the same mistake twice, plus if it stops someone lese making the same mistake.
On reflection, the model is perhaps a little ambitious as a first build, but then again if there wasn't a challenge I would get bored. The advice from people here is making it a lot easier. It has been a godsen this place (thanks Martin).
Soldering and wire bending I am looking forward to - but then I have had a little practice, like soldering down an IC with 144 pins on a 0.5mm pitch by hand, saying that, pride comes before a fall.
I will keep the documentation going, just to keep the methods in my mind.
Hopefully the next round of updates will be soon.
Tim
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Hello Wombat,
Think you are doing brilliantly mate!
I also picked a Slipway model as my first build and it all seemed overwhelming and the end never seems insight! But you know 7 months later not only have I learnt loads thanks in a big way to some of the guys on this forum and the overall quality and instructions of the Slipway kits but I've almost finished!!! Thought I never would. Each thing you do you look back at critically at the time and every next step like painting a waterline, getting the deck on flush seems so hard and some days you just can't face it in the end you end up actually doing it!
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Cheers Pointy,
It does seem daunting - though I am making progress. I'm not doing too badly I think, but looking at some of the boats here, I have a long way to go. I am starting to get my hand back in a little though, the paint is not perfect, but it is coming on. I finished up the tugger winches today - put in the detailing. Not sure it is quite realistic, but I can't see how ot make it better.
Hopefully some of you scale modellers can point me in the right direction. Heres what they look like
Tim the Wombat
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Hi Tim.,they are looking great matey,
Dont be tempted to have em spotlessly clean.....they are working machine,so if they get scratched, leave em like that ! ;)
A liberal addition of mucky paint will tone em down,, you could try using diluted track colour from humbrol to add rust colour to the chains too.
Steve
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I was wondering about a colour wash to darken it a little - the grease around the bearings and up the drum seems to work. You can't see it too well on the photo, but the rust effect on the cable seems to be fairly good. I used brown ochre acrylic dry brushed onto the cable.
The paint on the bulk of it look fairly clean, but so does the winch on the photos of the real boat - if anything the cables on mine are greasier and the drum is dirtier
I want the boat to look used but cared for
Tim the Wombat
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Well, progress is steady but slow - Lookin at the shots of the actual boat on the Model Slipway site, maybe there is too much grease on the tugger winch cables and far too little rust. Still never mind, perhaps I'll do the ropes on the Waterfall winch a little different.
Progress is slow, but it is more lile a boat now the bulwarks are in. Sand it down a bit and it should be ready for painting. The picture shows the hull with the filler on it, I am just about to go sand it down.
Tim the Wombat
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Beat the drums and jump for joy - a big step today, I have got the main exterior paintwork done.
The red oxide primer for under the water line is OK - the upper works are a bit orange-peel and have got some blemishes. The blemishes will be touched up. All that remains on the outside is to flatten off a bit and apply the satin coat. I am thinking of using Ronseal "Diamond Hard" water based satin varnish. Any comment on that stuff? What would you guys recommend? Also what is the best way of applying it - brush or spray?
Tim the Wombat
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Hi Tim,
Surprised you've not had loads of suggestions re-varnish. After using Ronseal type products, I now use Humbrol Cote - either Satin or Matt as appropraite. I think these give a better finish, unless you put the Ronseal on very thinly. So far I have brushed them as my airbrush technique was not so good, but I may try airbrush on the curent build, having successfully got the colour on with the airbrush ;D
Barrie
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Hi Barrie,
Thanks for that - I have some Satin Coat, so I will try that.
I might get SWMBO to take me to get an airbrush because my Paintbrush technique is absolutely cruddy.
Do you need to thin the Humbrol coat? If so, how much?
See you at the lake sometime
Tim
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Tim
Not for brushing - you do have to stir it well though!
Barrie
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Well, I have got the hull painted, and the deck hatch built and painted - though I do want to add an extra catch to it. It was my first outing with the airbrush. Some success. The hull is painted and varnished - not perfect but not too bad.
I have got the props mounted - I used a syringe to pack the shafts with grease, so they should seal. Here's where we are up to:
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Got a very funny look in Boots trying to buy a syringe - very suspicious when I asked for it "What do you want it for" - poor bloke did relax when I said "Would you believe filling a tube with grease" Ooooh eerrrr Missus!!
Here is the deck hatch - I think perhaps the weathering of the planks is a bit strong, but the green is the first outing of the airbrush:
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Lookin Great Tim :)
Tis a fine looking vessel
Keep the updates coming!
Steve ;)
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Not looking so fine today - there have been a couple of cock-ups on the paintwork that need reworking.
However, I have got the radio installed and the thing is now in the bath soaking. So far there are no leaks. I have got some idea of the ballast required. I am looking at about 6KG in the bow and 500g in the stern to pull it down to the waterline, though this will need to be reviewed when we get the superstructure onto the thing.
Wom.
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syringes - i dont know if any one else has used these before, they come free with the childrens paracetamol suspension, i use it with a thick grease and push the end right up to the prop shaft casing with the shaft removed, i put my finger over the end and apply the grease until i feel it back pressure and then allow a small amount to exit, i then place my finger over one end and insert the shaft so that any excess comes out of the shaft end, basic really, also no embarassing looks from staff and onlookers.
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Hi Warspite,
Our brats are a little old for paracetamol syrup, so that source is not available, however I got a syringe from Boots for dosing babies - £1.12, so the shafts are packed with grease ready to go.
Wom.
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Hiya Wombat.
I just took a look at your blog, well done!!!! I think making pdf instructions is a brilliant idea too - really good. Like me you haven't built many models before but as has already been said, it looks like you're doing really really well. You may feel a bit out of your depth sometimes but you mention things on your site that I certainly don't know about - so you're definately not the least knowledgable on here! ;D
I wish my model had instructions as clear as the ones you're doing as you go along. Can you build a Slo Mo Shun next please? It's causing me a right headache at times. The thing that relatively inexperienced modelllers like you and me need to remember though is that we're using materials, tools and building methods we've never used before, sometimes all at the same time - we're on a steep learning curve, and sometimes things are going to go wrong. Luckily we have enough helping hands on this site to get us through.
Right, I'm off. D'you know where I can get some methanol? I tried WHSmith but they were out of stock! :D
Julian.
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Electrics are neat Tim ;)
Makes a change not to see spaghetti , so often seen in models ( mine included ).........
mama mia, says Marco !
Nice to have the space to lay it out.
Keep up the good work
Steve ;)
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Hi Orby,
Been watching the build of your SLo-Mo-Shun - it looks awfully scary, all that wood :o
I would have said you were a very experienced modeller looking at the results - it will be a while before I attempt anything like that. I was gutted to read about the disaster with the epoxy - still I guess there is a way back. Incidentally I was taught the trick of using glass as a scraper at school - "Lurch" the woodwork teacher used to keep some handy for us to use.
Methanol - have you considered trying Cheap-Save's own brand Vodka? :P :P ;D Seriously, Model Technics do it for people who want to mix their own glow-fuel. £7 for a gallon.
Documenting the build is hard work - but it helps me work on my writing skills, essential for someone who has to communicate difficult ideas at work. Also, because as you say we are on a steep learning curve, it helps me to understand to understand what I have done and how to improve things next time. And it may help others...
Hi Steve,
I have a bit of an obsession with neat wiring - if anything the tighter the space, the more need to keep the wiring neat IMHO. Tyraps are a worthwhile investment. I suppose spending too much time inside cabinets full of spaghetti trying to fault-find has made me focus on tidy wiring - especially when said spaghetti is running a 600kV test set.
Saying that, I didn't route the RC control cables too neatly - I was going to sticky them onto the mount, but was short of length.
Also, if it wasn't tidy, the first and second deckhands (both called Juan: Juan One and Juan Two) would have explained the error of my ways with hose wrenches.
Only problem with Aziz's wiring is that I went OTT on the cable, running everything in 30A cable.
Tim the Wombat
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Wombat
That paracetomol suspension does not have to be just for the kids, tastes like C@#P but as it is liquid it is absorbed quicker so getting rid of the headache caused by any boat build problem takes have the time.
OUCH got another splinter scratching my head
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I prefer tablets - just old-fashioned I guess.
As an FYI for you all, WWW.floatingwombat.me.uk will be down for a few days as we move service provider. SWMBO is handling all the details. I will let you know when the DNS records have been moved and the site is back up.
Tim the Wombat
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OK guys - bad news, the web site is back up and runnig so you can have the pants bored off you again. Actually no, that is not true, as there are some pics from Dave Smith in Canada of his Aziz.
It is official, I am fed up - I have spent the last two weeks ****ing around with the paintwork. No sooner do I get one bit sorted then the ****-up Fairy pays another call. I loused up the waterslide transfers, the satin coat wouldn't adhere to the paint coat and I couldn't get the decks to look uniform.
Anyway Jackie at Model Slipway sent me some more transfers and lo-and-behold I louse those up as well. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I didn't have the gall to ask for some more after I was so kindly given a new set. So I had to make up some more for myself. This is the net result....
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Well nearly three weeks this time. More pratting about with the paint trying to get it right. I bought a cheap and cheerful compressor for the airbrush - at last, progress!
I have started building the superstructure - got the lower level and funnels done. Also I can start the build up process now.
It has had its first outing on the water - the boat club venetian night. No-one told me it was a competition - not only had I made no preparation. If that wasn't bad enough could I steer it, could I b*****y!! What an embarrasment - I couldn't get it between the bouys, then got it 90 degrees off and took oner of the buoys out - I came fifth out of six - rather too charitable I thought.
Still, it floated ok - didn't sink. Only problem is the rudders seemed very unresponsive. I think I need to improve the throw and perhaps mix the rudder position into the motors (OK so I have a computer set - all the gear, no idea!)
Tim the Wombat
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Well, here I am pushing it back up the list. There has been a reasonable amount of progress now I have done sulking about not being able to drive the thing.
The paint has been tidied up - much rubbing down and so forth. Had to buy another can of paint though (mutter mutter grumble gripe) - decanted some off and used it with the airbrush because there is much better control. Incidentally I got a compressor from RDG tools. It has made a big difference and should pay for itself pretty quickly.
I'm on the look out for model number two, also thinking about a scratchbuild, possibly something derived from a fireboat.
Anyway, back to Aziz, got the deck rails in place and started getting some of the fittings in place - progress is being made.
Tim the Wombat
PS before anyone asks it is Model Boat Mayhem on the computer
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Gosh, I must be sickening for something - given how frequently I am updating this thing. OK not so much big progress, but I have been playing a bit. I have been adding some details onto the life raft cradles - handles and inflation ropes. I have wethered the cover for the deck boat and added outboard marks. Also I have added handles onto the deck hatches. I would welcome comments pointing me in the right direction
Tim the Wombat
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I'm devastated - nobody is talking to me :'( :'( :'(
I shall sit here and sulk, unless some does!!!!! And if that doesn't work it is down to garden to eat worms until I die and then you will all be sorry.
Still, progress is still being made - I have tried air-brushing artists acrylics - it tends to block the brush, so it may be better to use a double action brush rather than a single action - you can then reasonbly easily keep the paint flowing - I had to keep adjusting the flow knob to keep things going. Here is the result on the deck boat
I have made some updates to the tugger winches to improve the paintwork. Also built the anchor windlass and the waterfall winch. I am quite pleased with the results of the build on those - the weathering looks reasonable, particulrly the anchor chain. More details on the blog.....
Tim the Wombat
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OK Tim, I''ll talk to you ;D. I have found all acrylics tend to dry very quickly in the airbrush. I have had most success with Revell Airbrush Enamels. They give good coverage, don't dry too quickly and can also be applied by brush for touch up purposes. So far I've only used two matt colours, but am very pleased with them.
My problem is cleaning the brush, or more particularly the jars and pick-up tube. I plan to get some airbrush cleaner at Warwick next weekend.
Barrie
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Nice work Tim. You seem to have plenty of patience and skill (softly, softly catchee monkey ;D )
Is the problem you had with the acrylics down to getting the correct consistency? I have had problems in the past with the airbrush blocking (mostly enamels) and they seem to have been related to not having the paint thin enough. I posted a question on the forum about thinning acrylics and the answer suggested was Tamiya acrylic thinner (I haven't had cause to try it yet but I intend to).
Keep up the good work
Doug
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Hi Barrie & Dougal,
I found that the acrylic tended to block the brush, so maybe a double action brush would work better - I also found that even after the thorough cleaning, the nozzle was still blocked by a lump of acrylic medium. I am hoping to find some airbrush compatible acrylic medium - I believe Tamiya do it - We had some from donkey's years ago with a set of Rotring pigments, but it has set after nearly 20 years in the bottle. The problem I had initially was not underthinning, but overthinning - initially I got it far too thin, and even with the detergent to break the surface tension, it would not sit on the surface, but flowed into the contours and blobbed giving a very uneven finish - at the moment it is about the consistancy of single cream, which seems OK, but I think the finish needs a little work.
Perhaps in future the secret is little and often.
I am using the Revell Airbrush enamels - mainly Satin White and Matt Grey, though I used satin red for the boat crane and fireboxes. The only problem is that Toymaster in Burton only have a limited range and do not do an airbrush satin coat. I have a couple of bottles of Humbrol bought last time I was in Hobbycraft, but it is difficult getting it thinned right and it settles out really badly. Hmm, I wonder if you can make Sating finish by mixing gloss and matt......
For cleaning, I was getting through a shedload of airbrush cleaner - to minimise the use, because of the smell and the cost, I use white spirit for the bottle cap and pick-up tube. I got some nice long pipecleaners - I dip the end in white spirit and shove it through the pick up tube and it cleans it out a treat. A kitchen towel soaked in white spirit cleans up the outside of the pickup tube and bottle cap. The airbrush cleaner is used for the brush only - now I have the compressor, I turn the brush upside down and spray it with the needle wide open onto newspaper to get rid of the bulk of the paint in the tube. The brush then only needs a couple of quick squirts to get it clean - if ypu blow it through the brush and collect on a towel it can be used to clean off any stuff on the outside of the brush.
I don't know about skill Doug - but certainly I am learning patience. The problem with the photos is that they do not really show up the scabby bits and the bodges - I am hoping that others will see my mistakes and set me right. Tips on how to do the weathering are particularly welcome as I don't want the boat to look like a toy fresh out of the box - I'm trying to do my best but I don't know what I am missing.
I am hoping the next boat will turn out better - I am dragging SWMBO down to Warwick next week so she can buy me my Christmas present - fittings etc will come for birthday. Hmmmmm it is the 20th anniversary next year :o , I wonder what I can gouge into her for (all suggestions welcome, though I suspect early parole will not be an option :P )
Tim the Wombat
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Tim,
I've found a web source of the Revell enamels that only charges £1.50 postage - cheaper than the petrol into Derby or Burton! Its actually located near Litchfield, but is mail order only.
Try http://www.models2u.co.uk
I currently use white spirit and Homebase Brush Cleaner for cleaning, but the pipe cleaners are a good tip!
Barrie
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Tim,
Airbrushing is the most 'fun' I've ever had! They will handle almost any paint if the correct size nozzles are used. Having said that, if you should ever find a school that teaches you how to do it right every time, I would very much appreciate knowing it's address!
I have found that the airbrush fraternity is a very 'clannish' group. Until you've made every mistake possible, they don't seem to want to tell you anything. I am getting very close to being elligible for membership, only a few more mistakes to make. After I have become a member, and after I enjoy listening/watching people make the same mistakes I'm making, I plan to tell all the 'secrets' to anyone who asks. If you live that long (and if I do) I will be happy to answer any questions!
- 'Doc
PLEASE remember to tell me the address of that school!
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Tim,
I had a lot of trouble with an airbrush, until I obtained a double action airbrush, since then it has been a pleasure to paint anything, I have found that when mixing the paint enamel or acrylic I use gp thinners and have not had any problems......
Roy
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Thanks for your comments all - I guess that means the worm fry-up is off the menu ;D
Barrie, thanks for the tip - normally getting into Burton is not a problem as I work on the edge of the town and we do our shopping there, but it helps to know of other sources.
Doc, I am getting better with the airbrush - getting a compressor made one heck of a difference, because the pressure is far more consistant. So far I am using it mainly as a small spray gun - I am not using it for detailing yet. Though I made sure I got a brush with a fine spary pattern - it will spray lines down to about 1.5mm (1/32") so I should be able to detail with it. Let me know about the school if you find it. I haven't made enough mistakes yet, I guess - though mistakes to successes ratio is pretty high.
Roy, A double action brush probably is a lot better, though mine is a pretty good compromise, because it is an internal mix type - I may upgrade at some point, but not until I have got the hang of it better. Pardon my ignorance, but what is GP thinners - is it a type or a brand name?
Tim the Wombat
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Wombat,
GP thinners is just General Purpose thinners not a specific type, it allows you to use it in all circumstances......
Roy
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Hi CBR,
thats good to know - maybe I will see if Halfrauds have got any.
Well there is some progress - the deck rails are in now and I am about to put the deck gates and some bits of pipe in. Then it is mount up the rope bows and the winches and the hull will be pretty much finished. After that it is build up the superstructure.
Tim the Wombat
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Just found this picture, i think its the same?
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Hi 2772e,
I'm not sure that is the same ship - though it is a similar type.
I understand that this is Aziz - though sold on, modified and renamed "Red Pelican" - If I ever build another Aziz, it may be an interesting project to modify it to match the "Red Pelican" - it appears to have an extra (or moved) fire monitor, a bow modified for pushing and changes to the aft bollards, deck rails and freeing ports
Tim the Wombat
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Gosh !!! she's seen some service eh ? I shall have to 'dirty up' mine a bit, to look like that.
I'm working on a Mod at the moment. I read that some members were having a water seepage problem with the rear deck so I am planing a raised rear deck . I have fitted a lip around the access hole to the motors and steering servos and am constructing a new top section. This should make lifting off the top piece easy for maintenance.
I also plan a remote controlable crane behind the cabins and have the Graupner one from Westbourne models all waiting in the wings
Hope to have some pictures soon
Cheers...Ken
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Hi Kenny,
Yes, I am looking at how to dirty mine up to hide some of the crappy build.
Yes, I found the deck hatch tended to bulge - to get around this I have put a second catch in the middle of the hatch - then if there is a problem, I may be able to get away with some vaseline.
Talking to someone who has built an Aziz, there can be leakage at the anchors because of the bow wave.
Not got any tweaks on mine - though I am thinking about lights and possibly a cabin interior.
Tim the Wombat
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[size=114pt]Hi Tim
Thanks for the anchor tip. Never thought of that one.
I'm following your blog (which is great, bye the way) and using the info gained to not fall into any traps or mistakes. Thank you so far.
I am new to boat building, having come over (as it were) from Tamiya trucks. Not being used to glue and waiting, I'm approaching this as a construction from Hell.
I have spent two weeks just getting the Kort tubes lined up with new brass plates and bearings and nuts and bolts. The thought of plonking a dab of glue and waiting a day to see if comes out OK does not appeal to me at all. The rudders were remade into lengthy tubes (above the waterline) and now I have the problem of when I fit the deck it will cover the the linkage arms.
Unfortunately, I have cut the deck sheet to the drawings, so this is scrapped and I have a new sheet of plastic on which to re-cut new access holes. These will then be fitted with raised edges so that my covers will be higher than the flooded deck which will be awash at speed (probably !!) ::)
Mind you, the story of the bow thrusters is also fraught with problems. It turned out that the Robbe thrusters were supplied with pipes that were too short. This was only found out 'After' the holes were cut in the bow as per the drawings. The 27mm tubes were found to be commercially un-available so my good lady suggested 'Sterident' tubes'. These turned out to be perfect. (anyone want two dozen tablets in a paper bag ??) :D
The deck supports were constructed out of purchased RSJ's in plastic as when cutting the strips , I nearly lost a finger with the Stanley knife. These fit into nice channels glued along the inside of the hull, and have not been secured yet, as I need to line them up with the loads being fitted above (when the time comes).
Thank you for listening. I still reckon it's a fantastic hobby, even though I'm now down by Six hundred quid. ;D
Cheers...Ken
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Hi Kenny,
So you reckon I shouldn't give up the blog then? :o
Today, not a working day so I did a bit of playing. I have painted the spare props. Also I decided the deck hoses looked a little tedious so I have put couplers on the end using small lengths of the 3.2mm rod used for the gate, offcuts of the tube for the body of the coupling and 0.8mm wire for the handles.
Everyone I have talked to about is says that the Kort tubes are a nightmare - I know mine are slightly out of true. I think that you have done the right thing updating the rudder tubes, though the free space under that deck is very tight - I don't think you can get much more length unless you put a power bulge in the deck - as it is, I had to cut chunks out of the deck rails to get enough swing with the as-designed arrangement. I would like to see the pictures of how you have addressed these problems.
Yes, I found the length of the Robbe bow-thruster too short for the drawing position, so I moved mine forward.
Here are some piccies of the hose ends I have done
Tim the Wombat
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Don't give up the blog Tim. I have just re-read it and you are miles ahead of me. It is looking great.
I like your attention to detail as I can't wait to start on these. My model can still be stripped down to bare bits at the moment. I will know I'm on the way up when I start gluing and it's a one way street with no going back. (frightening !!)
Here is a shot which shows the the motor mounts and my channels for deck supports. You can also make out the Bow thrusters in situ.
I am upgrading the Korts mounting system with new bits as the original design shows defects in the working of the brass. ( unnecessary hammer marks from my temporary career as a blacksmith ) :)
Cheers...Ken
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Hi Tim
I have decided not to raise the rear deck, but to stick to the plans.
How do you stop the water ingress should the deck be flooded. The design shows the wood covered section to be just a close fit in the surround. I guess some sort of gully is needed underneath.
Cheers...Ken
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Hi Kenny,
I have gone with the standard design of the hatch fitted snugly inot the opening on the deck. When I first did it, it tended to bow up in the middle, so I have altered it by putting a latch in the middle, which has made the whole thing a lot more secure. Once the forward end is pushed in place it fits quite firmly, though I may put some strengthening braces in to hold it flush.
Then all it should take, if shipping water is too serious for suck out with a syringe at the end of sailing is to seal the hatch using a bead of vaseline around the support surface for the hatch - this will require supports to be put in at the stern but this is not big deal
Tim the Wombat
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I've been staring at the problem all day. The trouble with gullies is the cross beams (two) which spoil the line of flowing water. The only way is to have three 'lift off' sections instead of one. I have left this section for a re-think. Great hobby eh !!
Now started on the fuse board and power section. I have already fitted five fuse holders and channelled the wiring each side of the boat into dirty wires ( motors ) and radio wire controls ( servos ). These all go to the bow section away from the motors
Where does the aerial go. Is it up the funnel for better reception, or wound around the hull
Now thinking of up-grading to 12 volts for the motors, but keeping 6 volts for the electronics. This has come about because I have a 12 volt water pump for the fires hoses and tested it on the 6 volts. What a dribble came forth !!!
Will our motor choices be allright on 12 volts, apart from going like a bat out of you know where.
Cheers...Ken
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Kenny,
Are you expecting a large flow of water or just a trickle through the hatch? Unless there is going to be a lot, you could build the gully into the I-beams by putting a lip at the bottom. Then you could drill drain holes through the croos beams without compromising the strength too much.
I haven't decided on the route for the aerial yet - I am running mine around the underside of the deck for testing.
The motors should be OK on 12V - according to the MFA web-site, IIRC, they are rated for use up to about 18V so 12v is a safe limit.
Tim
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Thanks for the info Tim
Just been reading my latest copy of Model Boats (yes I found one in WHS). Full of pictures and very polished. Just the stuff for the winter read.
Cheers...Ken
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Well guys, there is another update - mostly on the build manual. I will try to post more piccies later on.
Tim
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Big News!
You heard it here first - I haven't yet updated the blog....
Aziz is finished and ready for sea trials. Only outstanding things are to finish up the lights and to sort the towing hook. So basically finished.
I had to get the logo in somwhere so you will see Cookie is going to be the proud recipient of 75 gallons of Floating Wombat brand Chilli Sauce (Removes corrosion, kills 99.9% of all germs, removes stains from sanitary equipment and if you are desparate enough can be used as a foodstuff, in which case item 3 is very useful)
Tim the Wombat
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Really nice looking model . Well done.
Pity photos weren't a bit larger.
Happy new year Richard ;)
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Hi Tim,
When's the maiden voyage then? I am told the weed problem has gone away at the moment, but the weather is not conducive to messing about near the water!
Happy New Year,
Barrie
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Fantastic pictures Wombat ..................... Congtaulations, a superb build
Mine is coming on in leaps and bounds, now I have the use of my thumb back (Stanley knife saw it hanging over the edge of the steel ruler and went through the top quite painlessly) Amazing how it heals itself. Wish the boat would :D
I'm up to the mast fitting at the moment and in-between waiting for the glue to dry and sanding the cabin smooth.
I'm putting off the painting till I have to, so all the bits are separate and waiting to go on. It does monopolise your time eh !!. The MRS is not best pleased with my time away, so it's slowing down a bit.
Catch you again
Cheers...Ken
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Hi All,
thanks for the comments - the advantage of these photos is that you cannot see the cruddy bits - like the overspary on the decks and sides. It has got to the point where I risk doing more harm than good trying to fix them: enough is enough!
Dicky, I will try to put up some better pictures tomorrow - try to give a feel of the thing close up
Barrie, I will be giving her the maiden voyage when the weather clears - middle sprog will be wanting to test sail his Club500 (incedentally when is he first Club500 session?)
Ken, One word of advice - don't stick in the mounts for the main mast until you have got the upper superstructure in place. I didn't and it caused me all sorts of problems with getting the upper superstructure in place, especially mating up the fire monitor pipe with the funnel. I had a spare flange for the pipe - I used this where the pipe meets the funnel.
I painted in stages, can't work out which is the better strategy - if anyone does, can they let me know before I start "Highlander" (it is no hold until the weather clears up enough for me to fettle the fibreglass outside - in the meantime a scratch built canal dayboat beckons.
SWMBO actively encourages me to do the boat - but then it is part of my occupational therapy ;D
Tim the Wombat
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OK,
A bit late here are some further pictures - these are a bit bigger than the others.
Tim
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Tim
Really great model.
Pictures really great, can now see all your mistakes.
Before anyone complains to Martin, I am joking !! ;)
Keep it up, superfine job
Richard :)
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Thanks for that - I will point out the mistakes shall I :D :D - you can see the dodgy edges at the interface between the upper and lower superstructure for example.
I'm reasonably pleased with it though - turned out better than I expected. Now I've got to make space for the Highlander and the narrow boat....
I will post up some piccies when I have got it on the water (anyone in the midlands got an underwater camera?)
Tim
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On the water...
Incidentally, what is the correct etiquette for passers by. I tried talking pleasantly, but not sure whether this is against the rules or not.
It was interesting that when the brats had the "Victory" and the "Club500" out it was the kiddies who were more fascinated. When it was Aziz, it was the dad's that wanted the kiddies to come and have a look....
[Edit] Apologies for the unwarranted use of a grocer's apostrophe above
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Well there you go Tim. All that effort and it's looking great. Well done.
Good point about the Dads appreciating the craftsmanship and the boy racers interested in speed. Perhaps we could fit hydrofoils ( like James Bond !!) and get her up on the plane. Wot a shock to everyone eh !!
All the best
Ken
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Hey there guy's I am also building one, my very first build (every"!!) and I pick a "wopper" of a boat to pick form. but I have to stay I am enjoying putting this boat together. I am just about finish with the lower deck now. I did not use the beams that they give you in the kit' I put brass beams instand of the plastic ones that I got.. I have to stay with kort nozzles I did pull my hair out a little bite putting them in making sure that they where in just right" I still have a long way to go yet, on finshing the boat. I am taking picture of the build so if wish to see my build on it just let me know.. when I am done I hope, I have just as good of a time with the boat as I am putting it together.. Good Luck to you all that are still putting the Aziz together.
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Hi crzydoyle11.
Yes indeed. I'm still working daily on mine. Been building her since last October !!!.
A million problems............ Every turn is a new project. Almost every point done thrice, but very satisfying. My costs have now risen to £680 and counting.
I shall never reach the quality of Tim's build, but I live in hope that I shall get near. I'm thinking of going for one of the other names of this fleet as there were 5 built, so I understand. Does anyone know their names, so that I may choose one ? :)
If you do a search of my letters, you will also find I had great fun with the Kort nozzles. Took three weeks in the end, and finally used nuts and bolts through the hull (ooh er!!)
I'm now up to deciding how to fix the ladders so that they don't fall off. :D
Painting is another nightmare.... Every blemish shows up. Copious sanding down and six tins or aerosol paint later, it now looks like sailors have been painting it in a storm 8)
We all would certainly like to see your build. Start a new thread, and we can follow your progress and maybee pictures as well.
All the best
Cheers...Ken
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Gosh, I'm blushing.....
You haven't really seen it close up Ken - it is not that good, definitely not a concours model. Especially now after a few breakages down at the pool. The front mast is now a little lop-sided and there is glue everywhere!.
crzydoyle11, don't get me started on those bl***y kort nozzles - just don't go there!!
Tim the Wombat
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I added a picture of my build on my profile I do not know how to add it here in the box just yet" if you can help me on that wombat many thanks to you. I have tread paste and copy did not work and I tread attachment also did not work unless I have to change the file it self I do not know..please help me on this..
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I use 'Adobe photoshop' crzydoyle11.
Resize the picture in 'GIF' format to under 150K. the size is usually 24 pixels square
Click on 'Additional Options' and locate this picture on your computer and click to insert it.
Best of luck
I have put up my lastest picture under my thread page called "I've got a grey bottom ...on my Aziz"
Cheers...Ken
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I did not use the beams that they give you in the kit' I put brass beams instand of the plastic ones that I got..
Just to satisfy my curiosity, would you please explain why you used brass for the deck beams and inwales? It's not the easiest of materials to join effectively to styrene or GRP.
FLJ
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Hi Mr Jacket. Thank you for your info on other names in the Aziz fleet. I have contacted Lawrie & Jackie for advice.
I pondered the Inwale problem when the original castings were glued on. I found that a sideways knock would break the join and the railing became a separate loose structure.
I used a 4mm brass tube which I cut into the lengths required. I then filled them with molten lead and inserted a 6BA bolt in the base to a depth of 10mm with the thread protruding about 150mm.
The tops were covered in a blob of lead and sanded to a dome shape. I then drilled a hole for the railing and joined them all together spaced at the recommended distance. These were then soldered together and the surplus removed from the rails. This was then sprayed with undercoat and then top coat black.
I then marked out the positions on the painted and finished deck, and drilled out 6BA holes and inserted the threaded stubs and attached them underneath with washers and nuts. When tight, I cut off the surplus thread.
The gates were already made, so care was taken to ensure the width of the railings matched this time (ooh er!! Nothing like having gates which clanged together like a child had been swinging on them !!)
I suppose you might call this 'over engineering', but I can see now why they put up the signs "Please do not touch" at the these model shows. ;D
Must get off the Club site as modelling time is flying by.
Cheers...Ken
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Ken
Wires crossed here, mate. I'm pretty sure you're referring to the Deck Side Barriers, which are made from identical castings with a plastic tube glued across the top and into the deck at each end (see top of Plan Sheet #1). I can see they would be a bit vulnerable, especially if you have a cat loose in the workshop! Your solution seems practical and sensible to me.
If you look at CrazyDoyle's Avatar picture, however, he's apparently used brass section for the deck supports (inwales, as per Fig 3 in the Aziz instructions), and also for the cross members, which are I-section styrene fabrications in the kit. I was curious to find out why he'd done this. The kit construction in this area might appear a bit flimsy, especially to a novice builder, but once all is glued up then it's actually very strong. It also doesn't rely on joining dissimilar materials like brass and styrene............ and all the stuff to do it is in the box already.
Works for me (cheapskate), but suit yourself!
FLJ
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If you are wondering why I put in the brass beams instead of the the one's that come in the kit" well there are couple of reason for this..1- Is that if I made a mistake putting the beams in it would be easier for me to fix" because when you glued them down that is it, but if I make a mistake with the brass than I can reheat and re just the beams if I need too. 2- I know once the plastic beams are glued together there are stong" but I feel that the brass beams are even my stonger. But!" the real reason is that I hate" cutting out that very hard plastic to much work believe or not.. I can work with brass easier than I can with the plastic. And besides if I decide to use my boat to catch real fish I do not have to worry to much about my duck getting ripe off. LOL.... ;D :o And last night I did a weight test to my beams I put 30ibis of weight on my beams to see if it would hold up and it did" I my try a little bit more later, and yes I did take some picture of it..I will post my picture on here next time I log on.. 3- I guess also I did it because just to see if I can do it or not" I made a couple of boo, boos but in all it is working out OK at this time. I will also emit that it was not to easy to find a place near my home that supplies the brass that I need to use for my build. l
Later I did find a website that you can order the brass you need to build with. Here is the website if you wish to check it out. http://www.specialshapes.com/default.asp
Ok I will check in later guy's to see what is going on..
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Thanks for your reply, CRZY. I've sent you an E-Mail.
FLJ
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I have a queston on the motors, It is how match angle should I put on the rear of the motor's to make them slide in to the tubes. I have seen a couple of others install them them with no rear angle" I have tired this but looks like it is not lining up right. Any sug..anyone.........
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Hi CrazyDoyle........
Not sure what you are getting at - the motors IIUC should be in line with the prop shafts to maximise power and minimise hassle. I found access to the motors restricted by the deck so ended up slotting the holes on the bases so I could slide the motors in position through the deck hatch - and get them out again, but when mounted.
THe motors do have a bit of a slope towards the stern to get them in line to the shafts. I made this angle on the mounts by angling the motor to get the coupling straight (Better yet tighthly wrap paper around the coupling to get it rigid and then slide the motor on it. Measure the vertical distance to the hull at all four corners of the motor and use these measurements to fabricate the motor mount. Don't do as I did and use a single mount for both motors.
Wom
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Thank you wombat for the infor. on motor mounts. One more queston? why not make the motor's on one bracket. It is it because it may be more harder to line them up right?
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crazydoyle11,
I don't know about you or Wombat, but I have a lot of trouble getting one drive shaft / stuffing tube in correctly. Trying to get two in correctly (same exact angle etc.) is about as likely as me winning the lottery. So, I usually ends up with two separate motor mounts. I'd really like to mount both motors on one mount but found that with my building, forget it. I think I know how to get everything 'just right', but I'm too lazy to do it...
- 'Doc
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The problems I found with using a single mount for both motors are that if you do not get the measurements of the mounting holes in exactly the right position relative to each other, you will never get the alignment right. Also the problem of a single mount is getting it trimmed to fit properly - it probably takes more time to do than than is the case with two single mounts.
Wom
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Hey there guy's just update on my build. couple things that I add to my build.. Working Radder,and Fire monitor,also I am working on putting in working doors to.. The boat will also have sound as well fog horn, & Eng..right now I working on the doors. I will have picture at a later time..
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I forgot to add on my last post I also will have working lights as well.. O0
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Can't wait to see the pictures. Sounds like an interesting build.
Ken
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The problems I found with using a single mount for both motors are that if you do not get the measurements of the mounting holes in exactly the right position relative to each other, you will never get the alignment right. Also the problem of a single mount is getting it trimmed to fit properly - it probably takes more time to do than than is the case with two single mounts.
Wom
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here is picture of the wheel house unpainted to this point and the doors do open.
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hear is one more I will have more leater.
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hear is one more with my boat and Master Chife
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crazydoyle11 Can you not make your photos bigger, at the moment the are between 5 and 9 KBs. You are allowed a total of 256 KB, per post. O0
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I will try again to make the picture bigger. Of my boat and Master Chief when I tried I get a Error will not accept.
Will attempt to make them bigger again.
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OK guys some one please do this and let me know if this works. Go to AOL.com and than go to AOL pictures and than click on Public Galleries and than go to the search bar called Tag search and type in RC boat Aziz. and should be able to see most of my build from the start and some of Master Chief as well so try that ok.
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try
http://aolpictures.aol.co.uk/galleries/tags/RC%20boat%20Aziz
Fredy
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thank you very much Fredy for making into a web link..Again thnak you
http://aolpictures.aol.co.uk/galleries/tags/RC%20boat%20Aziz
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here is My Aziz with working Doors and color
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here is some working Elec. I am putting into Boat
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Here is the Power Distribution Panel center
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Hi crazydoyle11,
Looks great!
How did you hinge the doors?
Martin
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The hinge come from a train store.watch I found out" that there are really for a doll house. making them fit the boat was not! to bad. I just notch the door frame and jams out watch. and than glue them into place. I will get a closer picture of the Jams watch you cannot see in this picture. also about the doors watch I made" into two halves and place a window in-between them. That is because, when adding door: the door would not meat even with outside molding. So added some more plastic to it, watch come from 1mm plastic sheet that I stall have some left over. Making the door was more work than adding the door hinges. Also adding the window in-between the two halves I also have to notch them out so the two halves mount together and the door would close flush" into the the door frame. In the end if some one would have made that door for the Aziz I would have oder them! because it was alot work the doors than the hinges. I have stay I did enjoy making them.
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He used Brass Doll house Hinges Hes a picture Of his doors
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The hinge come from a train store.watch I found out" that there are really for a doll house. making them fit the boat was not! to bad. I just notch the door frame and jams out watch. and than glue them into place. I will get a closer picture of the Jams watch you cannot see in this picture. also about the doors watch I made" into two halves and place a window in-between them. That is because, when adding door: the door would not meat even with outside molding. So added some more plastic to it, watch come from 1mm plastic sheet that I stall have some left over. Making the door was more work than I thought when adding the door hinges. Also adding the window in-between the two halves I also have to notch them out so the two halves mount together and the door would close flush" into the the door frame. In the end if some one would have made that door for the Aziz I would have oder them! because it was alot work the doors than the hinges. I have stay I did enjoy making them.
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Here is the Power Distribution Panel center
hi there I have seen these power panel in a few boats before. I was wondering what are like and how much do they cost. As in my boat I need 12v 6v 3v so I was thinking about 3 battery's but now seeing these they seam a better idea. Any thoughts or advice would be welcome.
john
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hey there John" First let me say I have not hook it up as you can see in the photo other than make sure the power switches work. But I do like it because it will cut down on more batt.. that you have to add to run your lights and every thing else you know. I cannot wait until I have everthing hook in and running with it. Hear is the web site that I order it from HarborModels.com and The price in US money is $89.99 if nothing else just ck the web site and you can judge for your self. If you can buy do it. It would be money well spent.. PS. It also has circut breakers made in to it just case to much power\short so it will trip the breaker and saving your boat from melt down.
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thanks for the info il have a look at harbor models web site.
john
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here is some more picture of the Aziz
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Here is Hatch again
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One more time sorry >>:-(
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here is two more O0
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Photos a little bit dark maybe ? :-\
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Sorry man But the lighting in my home not very Good as you can see or Not see. ???