Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Andy M on February 04, 2022, 05:40:28 pm
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I have several projects on the go just now, all at various stages.
This one is taking most of my interest at the moment though. I want to build a Lesro Javelin. I wasnt really looking for a kit, mainly because I imagine they will be quite pricey, and I will be doing well to squeeze a few sheets of ply out of the budget as it is, but also, I like cutting out the bits (mostly)
I sold my small briggs and stratton generator engined bike to a friend for a (small ish🙁) donation of £50 to my modelling fund. I have had my fun on it, bit dangerous to be honest. It was clocked at nearly 50mph on a forest road, with no suspension. I did well to stay on it.
Anyway, back to the Javelin, for years I liked it so much I wanted to build one to sit in, I had already built my giant Vic Smeed Starlet and sailed in it, but I needed some more speed, basically😁.
So using some very early photoshop, I used pictures of myself to see what size a Javelin would need to be for me to fit in it. Happy with the mock up images, and already starting to work out how I would do it, I showed my friend, who said 'are you not doing it for 2 people?' It made sense really, but 2 side by side and using the same proportions was way too long for my budget/building/storage capacity..
Anyway, I decided to use the side view I had, but that made the hull well over 8ft ply lengths, slightly longer bits were twice the cost, and I was using marine ply.
I worked out that my version had to be 88 inches long for the bottom and side hull sheets to fit standard sheets. The side view was shortened and my little Viper was born.
Back to the Javelin, it looked much sleeker than the Viper ended up, I dont have funds to build what I originally wanted to build, a single seater giant Javelin. So a model Javelin it is.
I have nearly finished my Sea Rover model, it is built almost entirely using 3mm liteply from hobbies, which is unlike liteply I remember, it is slightly heavier but has a very smooth light coloured surface and has strength pretty close to birch ply.
I am intending to use the same sort of construction, its a bit cheaper than birch ply. I have a few motors that might suit, will get to that department soon. I also have my 3d printed brushless outboard, still in the test stages, but looks promising.
I went hunting on the internet for some suitable drawings to go from, sometimes even a thumbnail pic of the plan can show enough, but better quality is obviously better, I suppose it is not critical that mine ends up the exact same, but I would like it to be.
There is a Javelin thread on the forum with some good details but not some of the basic ones that I needed.
Looking forward to this project, had to do a bit of research to do before I could start finalising my drawings.
Many thanks to Canabus for helping me out with some critical dimensions to check I was headed in the right direction.......and I am, I think😁
Before I commit to using 1/8 liteply, anybody know what thickness of ply skin was on original? I am imagining 1/16?
The Sea Rover has tighter curves than Javelin, and I skinned it with liteply so I could manage to build Javelin from liteply, but it may be a bit heavier? The Sea Rover isnt that heavy, it is certainly fast enough, and its not even the best planing hull shape. I have the liteply already so will give it a go.
I am thinking that using modern electrics in the Javelin, instead of the engine/radio gear/fuel it was designed for, will make up for any weight increase from using 3mm light ply.
Doesnt really matter though, as long as its watertight😁
I have ordered a propshaft, prop, rudder and a water scoop set, thats the generator bike money gone already..... that will be most of the stuff I need though, so I am very happy. (but still a bit sad to see one of my creations being wheeled away)
Cant wait till my bits arrive through the post, I am loving this project already.
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I think the head is the wrong scale Andy - you need to shrink it a bit {-)
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Lol.
I still get the urge to do the single seater man carrying version shown, but this one will be a two or 3 man job with suitably sized pilots (eventually)
Is my plan pretty close looking?
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Lol.
I still get the urge to do the single seater man carrying version shown, but this one will be a two or 3 man job with suitably sized pilots (eventually)
Is my plan pretty close looking?
It looks good to me Andy! :-))
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I think Will (and possibly Harry) may have a pdf for the Javelin plans if that would help?
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Hi All
Not me (Harry/Canabus), but if anyone has please share with us !!!
Javelin/Rapier/Stiletto/Arrow I can get them resized no problem.
If you have parts off, trace around, scan and forward on please.
Regards
SIR Harry
Senior- In -Retirement
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Not me either guys.
I have plans with my Rapier kit and I think there are some in the Javelin kit too, but they are paper plans and although I intend getting them scanned to PDF, it's not high on my to do list with all the other more important (so I'm told) jobs.
Will
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I was happy enough with my plan, so I started cutting out some of the parts.
Due to not having my propshaft or rudder, I have decided to build this Javelin a bit different to usual.
I have pretty much decided to build 2 versions, but I will see once this one is finished.
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Nice one Andy. Good to see yet another Lesro boat being made.
Following with interest O0
Will
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Hi Andy
That's looking great and a lot less wood that the original ones.
Lovely lines !!!
When you skin the bottom, do the strakes before adding the sides .
Ten times easier !!!
The same with the chine rails before adding the deck .
Canabus
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I havent posted anything about this for a while, but I have been busy. Most of the main build is done, still needs a good few things done but I am getting close to fitting my spray rails and rubbing strips.
I wasnt sure if I liked the vents, so I made them removable using magnets, then decided I actually did like them, dug out the magnets and glued them on. Frames for the mesh screens in the vents are 1/16 square spruce. The mesh was a frying pan splatter guard, £1.79 for a 10 inch circle of fine stainless steel mesh was pretty good, I thought. My son gave me a funny look in the shop when I said it was for my boat. Lol. Half an hour with some pliers released the mesh from the frame, giving me loads of mesh.
The hatch lid areas under the vents have been cut away so the vents will hopefully work.
Hatches are held on with magnets, boxed in and capped over to prevent them coming loose, they work well.
I said this version of the Javelin was going to be different.... you may have noticed I have used balsa, not really what you would expect for a boat like this. I intend to treat it with care, so the fact it is a bit more 'ding-able' shouldnt matter too much. Bulkheads are buit up 1/4 inch balsa, 1/2 inch keel pieces. 1/4 x3/8 balsa stringers. Bottom sheeting is 1/4 inch, with 2 laminations of 1/8 instead at the front to cope with curvature. Side sheeting is 1/8, deck is 3/32. Cockpit sides are 1/8, with internal doublers taking them up to 1/4 thick. Fore and aft hatches are topped with 1/8 balsa.
I have built my battery tray quite long😁 so that I can balance the boat by moving battery forward or backwards. I can also make up a bigger pack if I need to.
There is another difference, I had planned this balsa version to use my experimental 3d printed (but highly modified after printing) brushless outboard, experimental because I have not tested it on open water yet. It has had a bath test with promising results.
I am going to sheet the transom with 1/16 ply on the outside and a piece of 1/8 ply on the inside. These will give me solid mountings for my outboard.
The motor in the outboard is the same one I used in my Sea Rover, with same prop but a conventional propshaft, so I imagine power will be similar.
7.4v on Sea Rover gave brisk performance, 11.1v was rapid.
My balsa Javelin is a better hull shape and much lighter. There is plenty of space on the transom for a second outboard!
I have already started 3d printing a second outboard, it will need some of my reinforcing treatment before it gets mechanical bits fitted. I need to order these. I can print up 3 mounts for the transom, that way I can use 1, 2, or even 3 motors. I dont see me doing 3 outboards, but I have 2 motors and speed controls, so I can make another outboard and try the boat with 2.
To be honest I think it will be fast enough with one.
I will hopefully manage to test my outboard on open water soon, it is fitted to my depron hydro just now, just a few small finishing off jobs before it is ready.
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Fair play Andy, you've progressed a fair bit O0 it looks really good :-))
Will
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Looks like a Javelin to me. Great job of eyeballing it!
With better fitting hatch covers! Like the idea of mesh for the vents.
You’re brave with the balsa though! %%
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Cheers. I am happy with how it has turned out considering I didnt have any plans. I know balsa is a bit delicate, but I am going to give it a go, it has turned out pretty light and should be fine if I dont hit anything.
I think I am still going to do a ply version. How thick are the hull skins on a 'proper' Javelin?
I forgot pictures of the vents.
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1/16th ply skins as used throughout Les Rowell Aerokits/Lesro designs.
I'd be tempted to skin the outside of your balsa model with a layer of 1/32nd ply applied with laminating epoxy,
and thoroughly soak the insides with runny mix heated up with a hair dryer - turns it to the consistency of water.
Paul.
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I was tempted to add ply skins, but it defeats the purpose of using balsa for light weight. I will just need to try and be careful...... 😁
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Duhh should have read ALL the posting before replying - now with it re your weight issues.
Wow that's a huge amount of balsa you've managed to consume during the build -
hope its old stock? bought before recent skyrocketing price hikes ! Lol.
Looking forward to your outboard experiments -
I'm also designing an outboard project (1/6th scale) based on an exellent article in a recent Model Boats mag,
using horizontal motor and vertical toothed belt drive - is this your route?
Way back in the 80's local club members raced the original Streaker's, aka Javelin's, against exotic glass fibre flatties,
powered by quick HP40 rear induction glows they were competitive, especially in rough conditions.
We added 3 small spray rails along each hull bottom skin parallel with the keel,
plus one along the chine blended in with car body filler to create lift, made a difference to the performance.
Paul.
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HI Andy
Just found a PDF plan of the boat by Circlip on another forum site which looks very good.
Canabus
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Well done and thank you Harry, that's a nice clean, clear plan.
Will
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Well done finding the plan, it will be good to check mine against it and see how far out I have ended up.
Its all new balsa...... Ply version may have been cheaper!
The outboard I am using has vertical motor and bevel gears. It worked fine in bath test, still to be tested in open water.
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The 3d print includes printed bevel gears, I never planned on using these and bought brass ones instead. I am going to build another one using bigger steel gears. I have most of the parts printed, ready for re-inforcement proceedures.
I am pleased with the outboard, only costs a pound or so in filament. An abs version would probably be tougher and maybe not need reinforcing but my printer isn't set up for abs.
I am willing to keep experimenting with the pla prints, hopefully resulting in a reliable unit.
It all depends on results of the open water testing.....
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Wow instant outboard ! things are coming on in giant leaps these days -
I cannot imagine plastic gears standing up to the grunt of a brushless for too long,
are bearings used? or is it just shafts running in the plastic casing??
Paul.
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Hi Paul, it has plastic printed bevel gears but I went for nice brass ones instead. My motor is a wee beast, propels my Sea Rover up to very un-scale speeds.
It has 3 bearings, 2 on propshaft and 1 above the motor side bevel gear.
Instant... not quite, theres a good few hours printing but mostly the hours I put in reinforcing what I thought could be weak areas, might just be my printer but the fin on the bottom casing snapped off really easily, it is hollow for some reason, I carved a hard balsa filler and epoxied it in.
So I wasnt really trusting it to hold together by itself so I added my reinforcing to it.
Theres a few mods I have done, I might start a new thread dedicated to this motor, I plan on building another one, I have been printing out the parts for last few days, so I can show what I do to mine to reinforce it.
It does look pretty good with some paint on it
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Forgot to put photos on. 😁
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Is this the outboard you were talking about? Lol. I imagine its similar apart from 50s look.
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I thought the bow needed some 'spruce-ing' up. 😁 A tough old bit it is too.
The transom has had its ply facing glued on and trimmed, the rest will be sanded flush. I was going to use a piece of 1/8 ply inside the hull, but I have more 1/16 ply ordered so I will use that and save some weight. I have printed up some extra mounting brackets so I can try twin outboards on it at some stage, but I think it will be quick with one.
It is easy to remove outboard from the bracket on the boat to swap between models, undo one collet, 3 wires and the servo linkage.
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Hi Andy
The 776mm(30 and 9/16") version so you do not miss it.
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Brilliant Harry, will get a start made tonight hopefully.
I trimmed up my 1/16 ply transom facing with a scalpel and sanding block. Fairly easy compared to the 1/8 'light ply' I used on the Sea Rover.
I am going to cut a facing for inside of transom as well, to stop outboard mount bolts pulling into the balsa, my new 1/16th ply arrived earlier so I have materials, yeehah. 😁
Dont you just love a fresh sheet of wood. Lol
My son gave me a funny look when he spottec me sniffing a sheet of balsa during construction last week.
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He thought this view looked like an easter island moai.
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Major difference to my Javelin hull shape that I noticed on having a look at the new stiletto plan is an angled transom, my Balsa Javelin was always intended to be outboard powered, I could have angled it and still fitted outboard but I went for vertical, in case the outboard never worked well, I had a plan b, to build a decent outdrive leg.
My interest in producing my own outboard or outdrive has been sparked by the 3d printed one, mainly driven by the fact I have doubts as to how it will hold together, I really want something robust, that I know can handle brushless assault. My friend is an engineer, but he doesnt want to stay after work to make stuff for me, he will help out if I am stuck, but I prefer to minimise asking him for machining jobs. Sometimes I make big hints tho😁
I am sure I can come up with something practical without machining. It needs sealed bearings and a watertight gear case. And 2 bearings on motor drive shaft, maybe a flexi coupling to the motor, not a fan of rigid couplings.
I have still to test my outboard on the hydro, I am hoping it holds out ok, it may surprise me, there is quite a lot of extra stuff helping to hold it together now, so hopefully that will give it a fair chance. I will see how it goes on 2s, think 3 s might need me to introduce carbon fibre reinforcement.
Anyway, hoping to get my transom inner face plate done tomorrow and maybe my spray rails. There have been cut from a b&q expensive bit of d moulding. It was actually lovely wood to plane, quite tough but very even texture and planed nicely in both directions.
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Hi Andy
I use Teflon lower outer bearings which my mate machines up for me.
Grease I use silicon tap grease in my drives only regressed once a year.
I have flex drive outboards and you have to clean, soak in oil and re-grease after each outer.
Harry
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I looked at flex drive ones but not cheap enough, I saw one at £185 with no motor or speed control. Mine has much less than that invested in it. Good few hours of fettling. But its fun. I have had a bit of a brainwave regarding the outboard and its strength but I am going to do my Mk 2 version similar to the first one so I can use them as a pair if required. I will add details to my outboard post.
Thanks again for your assistance Harry, and everyone else on this little vintage branch of mayhem. Long live Lesro. 😁
The javelin has an awesome look, I still want to do a full size version, if mine is 1/6 scale, action man size, that means it would be 19 and a half feet long and makes the cockpit 4 feet wide, thats plenty for 2 people..... Mmmmmm.
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See what I mean, I want to start on the 19 footer, it would be a beast.
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I cut out the inner transom facing from 1/16 ply and epoxied it in place, it was left overnight with lead weights to hold it flat.
The other items are battery holders that will be rubber banded on to the battery tray channel. These allow me to put the battery anywhere in the battery channel and not have it slide back or forward. The tray can take 3 18650 cells side by side and theres enough length for a massive pack, a double stacked pack is possible too, but I wont be loading it up too much, still thinking about lightness, been building planes and giant flying insects for too long. 😁
To be perfectly honest, I dont think there will be much difference in the weight, theres quite a lot of balsa and couple of bits of ply in the build
I wont know for sure until I get stuck into my 1/16 ply version.
It may seem like I am a bit mad doing 2 versions of the same boat, but they will be different, Ply version will be standard propshaft and rudder and a bit more durable/usable. I still regard the outboard as experimental/fragile until proven wrong, same with the balsa hull, it dents a bit too easy, it is still construction stage so easy to deal with before painting, but I will really just need to be extra careful. A box for protected storage/transportation will be needed really.
Carboard is fine for me, my son's christmas present was a gaming chair, my present was the box it came in, suitably modified it is now my Sea Rover storage and transportation unit. Lol. Dont plan on taking any of my boats out in the rain so should be fine.
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I thought I would check how many 18650 cells would fit in my battery tray... 24! That would take a 30 ah 7.4v pack, if I use samsung 25r cells, they are 2.5ah.
A bit overkill, probably going to make a 7.5 to 10 ah pack.
I also removed the magnets from my forward airscoop, and removed the framework from inside it and glued it in position, I trimmed the hatch to open up the intake after it was glued on.
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I spent a good bit of yesterday drawing up the plan for my plywood Javelin. I have used measurements taken from my balsa version as it has ended up pretty straight looking.
There are some differences between mine and a 'proper' one..
My hull sides slant inwards by 5mm measured at B3.
My transom is vertical, to allow easier outboard fitting and future dabblings with outdrives. I may have a slanted transom on the ply version as it is getting a standard propshaft layout.
On the Stiletto plan, the chines seem to sweep up as they near the transom, does the hull follow this curve?
I never had any idea about that and have built mine straight with the same hull section from transom to B3.
My Sea Rover sweeps up at the back and that looks to me as it would be quite draggy.
Thats about it on the differences, I had actually thought about maximising my sheets of ply and building one at 48 inches long, but I have already bought my propshaft and it would have been too small.
My outboard, or even 2 of them would have looked pretty small too.
So my ply one will be standard size, my version of 'close to original' construction and certainly more durable than my Balsa version.
When I built the balsa one, I had got the shapes of B1 and B2 wrong, this was easy to rectify in balsa, ply isnt as easy. I have the correct shapes now, as measured directly from my hull.
This was part of the reason I wanted to draw up an entirely new plan with some tweaks to address these issues.
Back to the balsa version, I have included a photo showing it beside the hydro that is going to be used to test the outboard that I will be using on the Javelin. Hydro looks quite small beside it.
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I look forward to hearing how your lightweight outboard powered Javelin performs - it looks like we wont have too long to wait before we can see :-))
If you do make another Javelin in plywood, the skins are 1.5mm thick on my Rapier and Javelin and are also the same in the new un-made Streaker kit (same boat!) and Rapier kit.
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I have my 1/16 ply at the ready. 😁
I am interested to see if my balsa one is lighter or not.
I have a batch of spray rails to make up next, not really looking forward to doing them.
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I have my 1/16 ply at the ready. 😁
I am interested to see if my balsa one is lighter or not.
I have a batch of spray rails to make up next, not really looking forward to doing them.
The Rapier and Javelin plans and building instructions make no reference to strakes on either hull - but I think they look good and I have added them to my own models and they do work well :-))
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I always thought they were standard. I am sure they help performance.
How did you make yours?
My best idea was to sand spruce strips down to the right profile but it will be a task, I am still recovering from broken shoulder, 6 ribs and sternum fracture so not really up for much sanding.
Now that you mention it, the Sea Rover doesnt have them either. I fitted chine rails and rubbing strips, but that is a cabin cruiser, and its hull shape isnt the best for speed, even though it does go fast due to my power setup.
I know it would be easier not to fit them but I was kind of relying on the rubbing strips, chine rails and spray rails to protect my balsa hull, at least to some degree.
My plans are well on for the ply version, I even have the keel and bulkheads drawn on my ply. These are only outlines just now, still to have notches added for stringers, sides etc.
Maybe get something cut out today.
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Hi Andy,
I found that it was impossible to buy any triangular section strip wood of suitable length to use as strakes on any of my classic model powerboat restorations or replica builds so I had to find a way to make my own as I did not want to use triangular plastic strips (that are freely available in a choice of sizes).
A simple jig was made to allow me to split any square section wood along a diagonal line accurately enough to get two identical triangular strips form each length from square section wood with no wastage and without making it an ordeal that would have taken more time than it needed to as I also wanted to be able to make a lot more strakes in the future.
The progress of my early jig and its development to a slightly more effective one is shown here on the Mayhem 1/12 Swordsman blog and examples of these home made strakes can be seen on the Rapier and Javelin threads along with various other methods ( including plastic) that others have contributed and used on their own models.
My jig has so far produced a lot of fairly accurate triangular section strakes from square section obechie that I have fitted to two Rapiers, a Javelin and more recently a Wave Rider and they can all be seen pictured on the three threads that cover their restoration/builds:-
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,65518.125.html (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,65518.125.html)
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,65422.125.html (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,65422.125.html)
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67831.msg735561#msg735561 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67831.msg735561#msg735561)
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Aha. I fashioned some triangular section strakes by whittling along a square section with my bushcraft knife. The shavings came in handy for tinder.
Post 184 onward
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,65422.175.html (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,65422.175.html)
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Thanks, I will definately have a look, I made up a jig to cut the spray rails for my Viper years ago, they were pine, but not as tough as spruce. I dont have a decent circular saw, and my spiralux fretsaw, despite having a nice 0.5mm width of cut for less waste, is too wandery in thicker materials.
A jig sounds the way to go, I made a jig for my router to cut 9mm half rounds from 8 foot lengths of dowel, these were rubbing strips for the Viper. I fed dowel into wrong side of it, it dragged it out of my hand and fired it 25 feet down the garden! And wrecked my jig.
Is obeche easier to work than spruce?
I have been quite busy the last couple of days, getting my plan to the stage where I could transfer it to wood. I drew the keel and transom on 1/4 ply.
I used 1/8 ply for the keel doublers ( the straight section from bulkhead B3 to transom) cockpit sides, deck supports and bulkheads.
I have still to draw up the doublers for keel forward of B3, I thought about separate pieces fitted between bulkheads, cut from offcuts rather than doing them in one big bit for each side. Then I thought it would probably be better doing them as one piece, for accuracy?
So with most of my bits drawn on the wood last night, I was pleasantly surprised to wake up to a nice day.
After a few chores, I got my workmate out, jigsaw inverted in the jaws and clamped up, some masking tape on the jigsaw foot to protect my nice new plywood and I was ready for some cutting out.
It always takes a bit longer than you think. I had to draw the sides after I had cut out my deck supports, to get the bottom curve correct for them.
A couple of hours of cutting, I have to stop often, my shoulder and chest still not very useful yet.
About half an hour of sanding got all my edges sharp to the lines, I will mark the stringer positions etc later.
Quite happy with my progress today. Thats all the bigger bits cut out, I prefer to do all the rest of the bits as custom fitted bits, once the framework is dry fitted together for a look.
Not sure whether to go for hard balsa stringers, or spruce. Balsa worked fine on first Javelin, the balsa skins were actually less bendy than 1/16 ply and didnt distort when skins were pulled into position, so balsa stringers might be/ should be ok. Not decided finally but I did manage to cut a nice set of balsa ones earlier, much easier to sand when the time comes......
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I am going to build it with slanted transom, it won't be getting an outboard fitted and should look better slanted.
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Did a quick double-take of the Stiletto plan posted here on Mayhem 20220213_200709 smaller.jpg (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=67864.0;attach=218889) -
it actually shows 2 strakes on the drawing ! yet there's none on another Stiletto plan I've spotted amongst the Lesro stuff.
You can get small triangular sections used in the aeromodelling world - aircraft wing trailing edge, know as TE. which may work,
its shallow angled therefore possibly 2 glued together or a bigger one cut down,
or use part and car body filler the rest etc - but only available in Balsa.
Also 45degree triangle is available in lots of sizes and may be in spruce? this could be hacked to shape or somewhere to start?
- SLEC in Norfolk's website is a good place to look, they supply many models shops or mail order.
Andy are you sure about your beautifully executed forward facing air scoop?
I'm thinking water on the deck or worse going through a wave, is going to shoot water straight into your battery tray - boom!
expensive puffs of white smoke Lol. - been there / done that / got the teeshirt.
You may get away with it on ic powered model - but the golden rule for air inlets - have them rear facing like your back four.
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Andy just read the last posts and your injuries sound horrendous - mind how you go fella !
Tips for chine stringers - don't bother bending/steaming fat half inch square or quarter square spruce etc,
I use 2 laminations (with epoxy) of eg. quarter by half or eighth by quarter - its a lot easier to bend around curves,
and being laminated ends up stronger/stiffer.
For easier sanding - glue on the first lam of spruce and a second lam of balsa - balsa on the outside is much easier to sand !
My weapon of choice for shaping chine/deck stingers (always a swine of a job) is razor plane followed by Permagrit Ali sanding block.
Permagrit products have been the biggest game changer over my 50 years of modelling - best things on the planet !
always super sharp, great to use, expensive but last a lifetime.
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As far as I know - hardwood triangular section wood (in longer lengths that we need for our r/c model boats) is not available any more. Mine are cut from obechie and that works very well, and is what they used to be made from when they were available and included in various kits - including my original Aerokits Swordsman.
I prefer to work with obechie for stringers (and strakes) as it bends and conforms to shape easily and sands well too - and again is what Aerokits (and LesRo) used to supply in their kits for the purpose.
Stringers are usually formed with two laminates of 1/8" X 1/4" obechie to make an easy job that is strong and can be sanded to accept the skins easily. These do not need steaming or any other treatment other than fitting them to the breasthook and bulkheads etc.
Their strength is in the laminate, and some of that strength would be lost if the outer layer were balsa wood. No point in losing this strength when the obechie is so easy to work with - but I actually "work" my boats and actually "use" them on a regular basis, so I build them to be strong and last - just like Aerokits and LesRo did with their kits using the same techniques and wood specification . It works! :-))
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Thanks for the input, always appreciated.
Ah yes, the air/water scoop on the front..... I did think about this for a good while, I dont plan on using it on choppy water, but things happen.....
I wanted it to look like a real vent, so I opened it up. I have thought about the water again and decided I will paint the vent's inside surface black, then glue a similarly painted piece of ply over the hole inside the hatch, no water, but still a proper looking vent.
Spray rails I am going to attempt in spruce, as I have a nice bit. It is 5mm thick and I am planning to either belt sand or flap disc the edge of the plank to a razor edge, then slice that bit off carefully using my upturned jigsaw technique. I may check my funds and see if I could stretch to some obeche, it sounds nicer to work with. Maybe next month.
I thought about balsa ones toughened up with superglue or ply facing, but they would be harder to get smooth.
Will try my spruce sheet first, its just a matter of careful sanding, if they end up too small, I can always build another boat to use them. 😁
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Some of you may be wondering why I stopped construction on the balsa Javelin and started on another one. The reason I stopped was to take accurate measurements before rubbing strips and chine rails were fitted. The balsa Javelin looks straight to me, the curves are pretty smooth and it was fairly easy to take measurements. I actually made up a couple of card profiles that fitted over the deck at B1 and B2 positions (the ones I had troubles with) I then superglued on card strips following the hull side angle and then did the same for the bottom angle, this gave me a template of exact size and shape as my hull, which turned out to be pretty symmetrical. An unexpected bonus! Lol.
The reason I haven't re-started on the balsa one is that
A) It was dry today and I had the chance to cut out most of the bits for my plywood version.
B) I thought if I get them both to the painting stage at the same time, it will make it a bit easier, whether this will be true or not will be seen, one coat of paint on a boat takes longer than you expect, painting 2 might be asking too much of my wrists in the one go. I folded both of them right back going over the bars of my pushbike years ago and they have never been good since.
I am hoping to get my chine rails and rubbing strips glued on tonight.
I have been using Gorilla gel for bits that need to be placed on, and normal superglue for bits that can be held in place and glued down a seam.
The gel was excellent, normal superglue would have soaked into the balsa and set by the time you finished applying it, the gel stayed there without going off until the part was positioned, there is even (sometimes) a chance for repositioning.
When I glued the 1/16 ply transom facing on, it took a while to get a decent amount of the glue on the ply and I was worried it might set before I got it on and lined up properly.
It worked fine, well worth the money but still a bite out of my modelling fund.
Anyone know if cascamite powdered woodglue is still ok to use after 20 years? 😁
I had the urge to re-live my first rc boat build and use cascamite.
My first rc boat was a KNK Aurora, powered and controlled by ex Tamiya Holiday buggy setup.
My model building exploits are helping to take my mind off things at the moment, that and looking after my kids (both of which have zero interest in models.....)
I haven't been able to sleep much recently, so model designing, building, painting etc is helping me fill the time.
The idea of a single hull and swappable Rapier and Javelin superstructures has been on my mind too, my Edita cabin cruiser is a prime example of a hull with very good access, one piece superstructure fitting over a coaming around the opening. I think I could make the Javelin superstructure work using this method, but a coaming would be visible through the Rapier's windows, or too low to be of any use. Or I give up on the superstructure swapping idea and just build a Rapier as well? 😁
There was one thing I wondered about the Rapier, how do the wee guys get into it? I never noticed a door. Or is it climb in through the roof hatch? That would work on a real one... 😁
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Good point re Obechi Bob - nice wood to work with, doesn't have a mind of its own like Spruce and sands very nicely -
I mentioned Spruce because it seems to be the only hard wood model shops stock these days -
should one be lucky to have a local model shop??
mine closed years ago, I now have to travel 70 miles to the nearest proper model shop !
Pleased to report SLEC do stock Obechi along with Walnut, Spruce, Mahogany and Bass.
I was mixing my Aerokits plans with Vic Smeeds plans -
he often specified chunks of solid Spruce for chine and deck stringers on ic. boats,
which as an 10 year old boy, I would try and bend around a hull framework without a cat in hells chance of it fitting !! Lol.
When Ivan (Vintage Model Boat Company) was researching/reviving Aerokits/Lesro and Les Rowell's other modelling buisness's
it was rumoured there was another offshore racer design similar to Javelin, which came after Jav, that wasn't kitted.
And what was it called - "Vipers" - co-incidence Andy with your fullsize? or do you know more??
would love to find more info or plans for this mystery ship.
Paul.
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Hi Paul,
I have only built two of the Vic Smeed models, ("Suzy Q" and "Remora" - so far), and I have used two laminated layers of 1/8" x 1/4" obechie for the chine stringers and gunwhale stringers on both.
To be honest, I would never try to bend a 1/4' square hardwood stringer into shape - there is no point as it would take longer and be much harder to fit and after all the extra effort it would take - it would still not be as strong as the two laminated layers of 1/8" x 1/4" that would have been much easier to fit!
I still quote imperial measurements, but the metric equivalent (helpfully shown when ordering from SLEC) is what we have to use these days!
Stay safe - Bob.
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Total coincidence but I would like to know more.
I thought the bow of my little boat looked a bit like a pit viper's head, and I thought it sounded quite good too.
Looking forward to any more details on the lesro? Viper
I have been sketching yet another possible build, I drew the small sketch a while ago, a kind of mix between a Javelin and a Fletcher Arrowshaft 25. The larger drawing is 26.5 inches long, looks a bit small for the outboard to me. The small sketch shows the boat a fair bit bigger compared to the outboard.
I get lots of ideas, sketch loads and build some of them. The small sketch looked promising, not sure if I kept that when I scaled it up. See how it develops, it may not come to anything.
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I am a fan of Vic's designs too, I have built a Vic Smeed Vivacity, Rorqual, mini Rorqual and a mini Suzie Q.
I have also built Starlet yacht in mini, standard and man carrying size.
The Vivacity build at 54 inches was enough to convince me to build my man carrying giant Starlet.
My 2 seat Viper is only 34 inches longer than Vivacity!
Vic designed some very nice planes too.
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I was thinking about the spray rails again, I cant afford to buy obeche just now, although it sounds like nicer stuff to work with than spruce. I have only encountered it as skinning for foam wings.
I only have a 4 inch by 36 inch plank of spruce, 5mm thick, so getting the spray rails right first time is quite desirable, but they will still be close for length. I was hunting in my shed for anything more suitable, then when I gave up and went in for a coffee, I got a text from a friend, did I want a wardrobe for my stove? I said yes, stove fodder always welcome.
On the way to pick it up, or the parts of it anyway, I had a thought that if it was an old one, it might have some real wood bits that may be of use.
It turns out it was pretty new looking, with what I thought was MDF slats on the doors, then I found a broken edge showing they were actually pine, 5mm thick, same as my spruce but a bit easier to work with, and plenty of extra bits to perfect my production technique. I tried cutting some freehand on the upturned jigsaw, terrible, even the line I drew rubbed off as I was feeding the slat through. I knew it wasnt going to work that well but I wanted a decent look at the wood, seems fairly decent, I hit a knot so the spray rail fell apart. The wood is painted, pretty nicely too, so if I can keep that, it will be a nice base for my paint. Only thing about it being painted is that you cant see knots until its too late and you are already cutting it.
I have 10 bits about 5 feet long and 3 bits 4 feet long, so hopefully I can get enough bits without knots. I will see how it goes, I might just go for 2 per side, although I went for 3 on my Viper (glued on!) No screws were used as I didnt want holes in my hull. Even temporary ones. Holding them on was a job.
Anyway, back to the model spray rails, I am going to have a go at planing the profile on the edge of a slat ready for carefull removal with vertical cut on the jigsaw.
I got some near perfect straight lines cutting out my ply Javelin bits, I should be able to get fairly decent results if I take my time cutting the spray rail off, its definately easier to sand pine.
I just found it strange (but good) that my friend had come up with a big load of spray rail material, just when I needed it and it was free. Hopefully I will get enough to do my ply Javelin too.
Just had a thought, I will probably put 3 on each side of the balsa Javelin, purely to add a bit more protection to the hull.
3 looks good anyway.
Looking forward to trying to plane a bit of the pine to see how it goes. If that doesnt work well, I will try belt sanding the profile edge on.
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I managed to get my rubbing strips and chine rails glued on. Definately adds to it, looks and ding resistance.
I pre rounded the lower outer edges of the rubbing strips before I glued them on, knowing balsa damage could occur if I waited till they were on before sanding. I have the top edges still to round over once I give them a light sand to make sure they are flush with the deck.
I used superglue gel again, with some areas having to be done with faster setting thin stuff to hold it until the gel grabbed, maybe not enough gel on those bits.
I am going to my usual and run a neat bead of pva along the top of the chine rail, this gives a nice small radius join to the hull once it dries and shrinks, I only use 'waterproof' pva.
Once dry, I will flip the hull over and do the same to the underside of the rubbing strips.
Happy with how it is coming together. Its a lovely shape.
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Ply version of the Javelin is coming along nicely, good weather meant I could get sanding done outside. Progress is quite slow though, my chest and shoulder are still slowing me up.
Last photo shows how I got the last of the gorilla gel superglue to the end of the nozzle, just taped to a sanding drum and speed 2 in my cordless drill 😁
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Good progress, first pic shows the one piece deck sitting loosely, second pic is with deck glued down, except the section at transom,, due to the deck curve and the downward slope, the rear of the deck needs to be split, this was trimmed to fit, with the join where it will be under the cabin side.
I did consider making swappable Rapier/Javelin one piece tops/ hatches, but the coaming would need to be only 15mm and less at the stern, which I didnt really fancy.
It would have been easy to do at this stage but I will just build my Javelin as planned.
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Quick work yet again Andy :-))
You'll be on the water with both in no time.
Will
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Thanks, I have been immersing myself in my modelling, so construction can go fast, but a lot of my time is spent thinking about other things.
I decided to weigh the models as a matter of interest.
Balsa version as shown, windscreen is inside boat. Lol. Weight 1030g
Ply version, basically the hull only. Weight 1089g with superstructure still to make.
Need to wait till they are finished but don't think there will be much in it.
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Yesterday I trimmed off excess ply with angle grinder and flap disc down to 2mm from finished level, planed it down even closer then finished off with a mammoth sanding session in the cold wind. Did wonders for my chest/shoulder, (not) , and left my sanding hand cramped up. Ah well, the hull looks clean and sharp now. As I am still debating whether to build a Rapier cabin, I drew up a template last night from a tracing I had done from my laptop but the scale was out, so I fired up me old laptop again and scaled it to the right size, traced it again and started a new template.
I had a go at a colour scheme while I was on photoshop, just a rough go though😁
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The Rapier and smaller Stiletto are a strange mix aren't they.
They hull is race boat, but the cabin is more Classic Motor Cruiser.
Will
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I showed my friend the stiletto, he didnt like the shape.....
It has something about it.
I am pretty sure I am going to do a Rapier.
I will see how things go.
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I like the shape, of both (they're just a larger and smaller design of the same thing after all), the two designs (hull and superstructure) just don't seem to match style wise in my opinion, that's all.
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The Javelin definately suits the hull better, I like the Rapier too, its just different.
I have something else in the pipeline as well, I will reveal it at a later stage. Got plenty to do for the moment, so might be a wee while.
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Rapier Cabin sides cut out, so I am definately building one 😁still got window trimming to do, they were a task to cut, my saw only has 12 inch throat. So a lot of maneuvering was required. Turned out not bad though.
The javelin sides are a bit easier. 😁
Got quite a few bulkheads to draw up now and get cut out.
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Is that so you can choose between the two on that particular day?
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Yip, I thought it made sense really, seeing as how I have a hull that fits both. No need for a second hull and radio etc, just swap the 'cabins'.
Sorted. 😁
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I like the shape, of both (they're just a larger and smaller design of the same thing after all), the two designs (hull and superstructure) just don't seem to match style wise in my opinion, that's all.
That's been my view as well Will. A quite modern looking hull but with a superstructure that looks dated. Been thinking about building one and altering the windows to a more modern shape but really it needs to be more than that with a sleeker superstructure.
Had thoughts in the past about designing my own boat but the interest in these has brought to my attention what a nice hull it is and simple to build (compared with some of my Faireys!) and so is an ideal starting point. Few tweaks to the hull and a modern superstructure would produce a really nice model. Don't get me wrong, the Stiletto is nice but it was designed a long time ago and fulfilled the brief for a kit that could be quickly and easily built with the minimum of tools. Scratch building allows all sorts of possibilities!
Andy - been following your builds and really impressed with the quality and the speed of them and ploughing your own furrow! Same as regards your outboards and looking forward to them coming together and seeing how the combination performs.
Chris
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I was going to wait till I was further on with it, but I have yet another superstructure in the construction stage, well, I have cut the sides out. 😁
I think it looks not bad.
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Nice one Andy, looks pretty good. Certainly looks a more cohesive design. Bit more angle at the front perhaps?
Not sure about the tartan curtains though! {-)
Chris
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Lol, I never noticed the tartan curtains.
There are 3 windows going on the front, I can sweep the front one a bit and see how that looks.
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I got my coaming(s?) glued on. They are 17mm high apart from the slanted section at the stern, which slopes down to 11mm to allow the Javelin superstructure to fit.
Also shown is a sort of mock up showing my Edita cabin cruiser superstructure with the Javelin hull. I had to modify the rear section of my new sides to allow it to meet with the downward slope of the Javelin deck. The original Edita hull is flat, so I had to do something to make it work with the Javelin, without modifying the general shape too much.
I am going to take ChrisF's suggestion and rake the front windows back a bit more, the side windows will get trimmed to match front angle as well.
I am not sure how it will look when finished, I may have to modify more of it.
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Andy, will you slow down. You're making the rest of us look bad, especially me!
Seriously, this version is looking really good. There is always thoughts about tweaking things but that is effectively a prototype and for a first attempt you've pretty much cracked it. Adds to the interest if you can do your own thing.
Chris
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I have been busy cutting out all the bulkheads for the different superstructures.
I decided to start assembly on the Rapier first.
It went together fairly quickly, I have sort of headed off in my own direction a bit and have stopped referring to photos, plan etc. It is relatively close, but I did my own ideas for roof curves etc.
Its a pity that the coaming can be seen through the windows, I am going to try painting the coaming black to see if it disappears. If not, maybe tinted windows? It definately needs windows, any water would just slosh in there. I was worried about the front scoop on the balsa Javelin, the Rapier window lower edges are only about 6mm above deck level.
The fore and aft roofs add a lot of strength to the superstructure, I did think about using 1/32 ply to keep the weight down a bit, but decided to use 1/16 for strength. They do add up to a fair bit of weight that is well above the waterline. The centre roof will get fitted once I have built up the interior walls and floor.
I will attach liners to the superstructure bulkheads, following the line of the coaming, but inboard of it a mm or 2, then add a cap over the gap between the cabin side and liner.
I will show pics once I get to that bit.
Not quite sure where I am heading with front and rear windows of the centre section. I wanted to get the front and rear roofs fitted before I decide.
The very front window has still to be marked up and cut out, it will probably need dremelling and filed. There is a space behind it for access to fit a window once painting is done.... Long long way off for that though.
I could miss out the centre cabin liner/floor, but I think it is worth doing, if there is something visible in there, it might take your eyes off the coamings in the other windows😁
Anyway, very pleased with progress,
Edita superstructure has a huge rear bulkhead, I want to cut windows in it before it gets glued, I have to work out floor/door height and also floor /walls for rear well, still have to draw up bulkheads for the aft section.
Good thing is that I can draw up a batch of bits in the living room, for any of the superstructures, to make the most of my trips to the cold shed for cutting. I have had to stick little masking tape labels on the bits so I dont forget which is which 😁
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I made a stand to use for the outboard powered version , as simple as I could make it. It needs some foam as it is pretty slidey.
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Wow. Looking good. So that’s a lift off Rapier/Edita style superstructure on the same hull?! Good work.
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Thanks.
I am doing a Javelin superstructure too, thats it in the first pic, not very much to the cabin sides.
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I have to say that I am really enjoying this build, I am really happy with how my balsa Javelin turned out, still has some work to go, but it is close, I can look at it and get inspiration to keep going with the other one (s?)
My ply version of the Javelin/Rapier/Edita has turned out better than I hoped, really sharp and crisp looking, looks straight too, glad I can put different superstructures on it as well, makes sense really.
I have started building up the Javelin top, it is mostly a ladder frame and 2 bits of 1/16 ply. I made sure I reinforced the bulkhead joins to the sides, so they dont pull the whole thing out of shape. I glued the ply tops on with the frame on the boat, so I had to be careful not to use too much glue! Just in case. 😁
The Edita superstructure is pretty large, the original Edita is shown below, its a totally different hull. The original has a lot of hull sticking out behind the superstructure, I couldnt do that, theres only about 2 inches on the Javelin/Rapier hull.
I also had to adjust the angle of the rear 'pillars?' of the cabin as the original Edita hull was totally flat decked, the Javelin slopes down a good bit. The photo shows this better.
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I am getting closer to having the hull ready for painting, still a fair bit to do but I decided it was time to try carving/planing/sanding an 1/8 x 1/4 obeche strip to make a spray rail, but it was not very good, it took ages and cramped up my hands, I have arthritis and I knew there was no way I could manage the amount required. I have 2 boats to make rails for..... I needed an easier way, so I made an attachment for my little sander, to make triangular spray rails from rectangular bits of wood. Some amount of sawdust. Did 12 of them.😁
My little attachment worked a treat.
I added a little 1/4 ply table extension to the sander to support it/attach it to, this will be useful anyway.
I was going to screw it in place but ended up using a hefty g clamp.
The jig is built using 6mm and 3mm ply and 2 bits of 1/8 thick spruce glued 1/4 inch apart. This is supported at the correct angles by 3mm ply pieces joined with superglue and sawdust to make a solid unit.
It is simple, but very effective, I just needed to think about it properly.
A power feed would be good.
Before I started sanding the triangular profile, I had to sand some bits of the edges of a few of the 1/8 x 1/4 obeche strips as they were binding in the jig, not a lot but enough for a stoppage.
I am pretty happy with the rails, a couple of bits that need slight sanding, but nothing major, just a lot of them, and they are fiddly to hold.
I am going to glue on my rubbing strips and chine rails first, to bring it to the same stage as the balsa one, then fit all the spray rails on both hulls.
I still need to make a stand for the ply one, with cutout for propshaft. I should get this made and I can get my propshaft glued in.
Still a long way to go really, the basic bits are there, but a lot to do to finish them all off.
The balsa one is closest as it only needs spray rails, rudder servo mount made and then painting can start. After that, fit windscreen and bolt on the outboard.
I really want to have the 2 boats and 3 tops ready for painting at the same time, don't know how this will work out, might be a bit much for my hands/wrists to try and paint them all in one sitting. It will only be base coats of probably white to start with, no real idea of colour schemes yet.
The ply hull colour(s) have to suit 3 different lids, need to think about that.
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Hi Andy
The Edita version looks really good and I think it looks better with the cockpit going further back and if it was a full-sized boat would give a better, more useful sized cockpit.
It looks as though you have moved the front of the superstructure forwards as well to reduce the long foredeck of the standard Rapier as well.
Good method for producing the strakes.
I know what you mean about getting a number of models ready to paint at once. Trouble is I'm doing it with 5 which is one reason the builds are taking so long! Not helped by my speed (lack of) of building.
Chris
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I have been thinking about what you said about the Rapier cabin front, There isnt any more of it ahead of the coaming than the Javelin, however, I drew up my plan before the Stiletto plan resurfaced, so all my measurements are based on the photos I could find at the time, mostly the side view that I used when designing my little Viper.
Having thought about this, I came to the conclusion that my foredeck bit might have ended up shorter due to me using the photo, and its altered perspective, the bow would be furthest from the camera and appear shorter than it would be if looking at a flat plan.
Dunno if I am rambling about the perspective thing but I know both my hulls arent the same as the lesro version, the Stiletto looked to have a slight sweep up of the chine line at the stern, similar to Sea Rover, I have gone for totally straight and I also went for angled sides as I did this on the Viper and it looked good.
After having to modify the front 2 bulkheads on my balsa version, easily done on balsa, but not so easy on ply, I decided to use my nice straight looking balsa hull to give me accurate measurements to produce a complete set of mk2 bulkheads, rather than estimate the the thickness of an angled bit of 1/4 or 1/8 balsa sheeting, and lose the accuracy, I decided that I would just make the bulkheads to the outside size of the balsa one, if you know what I mean, then the 1/16 ply added, so my ply one has 1/8 wider hull and a bit extra on length too.
I have strayed from the original a bit, but it is still a beautiful looking boat, and close enough to do me.
So much I built 2 😁
And a small batch of superstructures.
I still have that niggling urge to build the 19 foot version........... Do Slec do 3/8 ply in 20 foot bits? Lol. I would love to build one. Just for the build.
Swap tops on a real boat? That would be good.
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I know what you mean about working off a photo. I did that for my Fairey River Cruiser, using a small B&W photo from a book. It's amazing how much even a slight angle from straight on can skew things.
You had me confused as in your last photos as the foredeck looks longer than it did previously. Then I saw the underside of the superstructure and realized that the front of the cabin sits quite away in front of the coaming!
You've got a good fit between the cabin sides and the deck which isn't easy.
Chris
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That Javelin photo that Andy used for his Viper was the box art on my kit from 1994 that I purchased from model shop in Addlestone many years ago.
]Note the strakes poking out of the water. I no longer have my plan but it must have had strakes on it otherwise I wouldn’t have added any. This must have been a mod to the original plans that Bob and others have.
I’ve tried to add a couple of pics using the post image button but they don’t seem to appear?
Edited - added one the old way!
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I’ve tried to add a couple of pics using the post image button but they don’t seem to appear?
Stuw, if the pictures don't appear and the post seems to take a while to upload, then I would say the images are too big. While they upload one at a time rather than in multiples?
Will
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I made up a template when I started, so all the bits that use that curve are the same, this includes all the superstructures. I made my deck supports on both models from 3mm ply, about 20 mm deep, these helped keep its shape while I slid the cockpit sides (on balsa version) in or out for deck trimming etc.
The ply version has the lower bit of coaming glued to the deck and deck supports.
I have been busy fitting spray rails, chine rails and rubbing strips, what a job, they kept pinging loose or sliding about. Waaah!
Ah well, all done now, looking not bad, just to go over them looking for any bits that need more glue. After that, I can start final sanding ready for painting. My Daughter said the spray rails made it look more realistic. 😁 Cheers.
The balsa one is close to painting now, just need to catch up a bit with the ply hull and at least one superstructure.
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I have been trying to get both models to the painting stage, I underestimated how much was still left to do and overestimated my energy. 😁
Things always seem to take longer than you think they will.
Anyway, I made up 1/16 square spruce to make frames for the mesh in my vents. Once all set, the frames and interior of the vents were painted matt black, I cut the mesh screens and glued these in once paint had dried. I worked out where I wanted them and glued them onto the rear hatch cover.
Front airscoop is pretty much solid, so its mesh is sandwiched in place by a 1/16 ply frame. No water (or air) can get in through this one.
I also fitted a 1/32 ply floor to the airscoop on the balsa Javelin, as someone had said I might get water coming in there, the ply will contain it inside the scoop, hopefully.......
I am going to incorporate what I think is a good idea, a bit of string tethering each hatch or superstructure to the hull, that way if anything happens, they wont drift away from each other.
My depron hydro parts all started separating after it flipped over, the cockpit came off and started drifting away from the hull, I just managed to rescue the boat, but I nearly missed my opportunity to rescue the lid, it was a full stretch to reach it from the moored boat I had got onto.
Anyway, I have now fitted the 'floor' parts to the Javelin and Rapier superstructures, these unscrew to allow me access for painting and future detailing.
I have run beads of woodglue along edges of chine rails and rubbing strips, these were smoothed with a finger and give a nice tight radius once they dry and shrink back.
I fitted my propshaft and skeg, binding the propshaft to it with heavy duty thread and epoxy smoothed over.
I built a flat platform for my waterscoop and rudder to sit on, so the o-ring actually works.
I glued on small offcuts from spray rails, sanded them flat and glued a 1/32 ply cap over them.
I reached the point where I could start varnishing both hulls, and the hatch covers for the balsa one. I have still to finish off the Javelin superstructure for the ply one. I usually do more coats on the hull than on the superstructure anyway.
There isnt much to do on the Javelin top, I have been adding fittings to take the windscreen, this one is made from a very new looking visor that has been in a bag, still with its £25 price label, for about 20 years in the boiler cupboard. The padding in the helmet turned to jaggy powder years ago and it got binned.
Anyway, I think it looks not bad, maybe a few tweaks and some trimming and final couple of screw anchor points added, recycling, love it. It is pretty tough as well.
It felt a bit mad, cutting a perfectly good visor in half with my angle grinder but results are good, might even be a big enough slice left for the balsa one, I have a windscreen made for it already, but it is thin and easily cracked, I need to wait till my varnish is dry to check if it will do.
I was outside, just about to start varnishing in the sun and it started snowing, so I had to move it all into my shed quickly.
The varnish I am using is very smelly, bit gives a nice finish, I used it on my Sea Rover. It also takes a couple of days to dry if its not warm.
I can get on with my superstructures in between coats of varnish. The Javelin top is closest to getting painted/varnished, followed by Rapier. The Edita superstructure will take longest, it has plenty options for detailing, most of which I would like to do before the roof gets glued on. I will still be able to remove cabin floor for access but top and bottom will make things a bit easier. I did think about screwing the lid on but it would need loads of screws to hold it flat along the edges, its under a fair bit of tension when it is curved over the roof beams.
Maybe 2 layers of 1/32 ply laminated in place? That would probably hold its shape well, requiring fewer screws. I may try this later. I am thinking the Rapier could be done this way too. I have already cut out my 1/16 ply roof panels for both, but they could be used for something else later.
I need to think about it for a while.
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Vents
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Hi Andy
For the roofs on my Faireys rather than use ply I use 3mm thick bass planks which once the glue has dried I sand to shape. Using this method there is no stress.
Ok, my roofs are glued in place but they could be formed on cling film so that they can be removed and then secured with screws. Could this work and I suppose you could use balsa planks, my bass ones are 8 or 9mm wide.
Chris
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I have been plodding away at the boats, I got a coat of (very smelly) yacht varnish on the outside of both boats. It took days to dry. There was a bit I had varnished outside in the sun, but it was a cold wind and the varnish had gone on really thick and non flowing, so I stopped, took it in my shed and got the heater on as I brushed white spirit on trying to flow the thick varnish. It mostly worked apart from a strip along the back edge, I tried sanding this off when the rest had set. It was still gummy so the sandpaper rolled it into little sausages and it could be worked towards an edge to remove the gummy bit. About half an hour of this and it was mostly gone, a wipe with white spirit took the remains off.
I gave all the bits I had varnished a good sand, dry brushed them with a 2 inch paintbrush and blasted them all inside and out with the airline. I then wiped over them all with white spirit. The balsa version got 2 coats of white undercoat then my plan was to paint it gloss white before deciding what colour scheme to go with. I painted it with 2 coats of water based gloss, then a coat of yellow water based gloss, but I didnt like it, so it has now had 3 coats of a different yellow, the same paint as I used on the 23cm cruiser, Rorqual, 2 wasps and a jetranger. Still lots left, I want another coat or 2 on the balsa one. The ply version is all white just now. It also needs another coat.
I managed to get 2 tinted windscreens from the motorcycle helmet visor, only a thin strip was left.
Both boats are coming on well. Starting to think more about motor fitting in the ply version, the balsa one only needs the outboard bolted on. I say only, but this lead to me working out a better fitting system for the hood/cover/lid.
It used to rely on tiny tabs that fell off so easily, snapping along the horizontal printing plane. The rear mounting on the main outboard body was replaced with a piece of plastic coated paperclip, it is much sturdier, not that it needs to be really strong, just enough to hold the hood on. At the front, I decided to make it a 2 screw fitting, this involved adding P.L.A to the front sides of the hood with a 3d pen (mig welder for P. L.A) this was smoothed with a flat soldering iron tip. Drilled and repainted it works much better, no pingy off bits now. Another small refinement.
I have built my second outboard as well now, so I have a matching pair. One still has to have its wires lengthened with flexi silicone cable. I am going to run one outboard to start with, but I am planning in the second one just now, just in case it needs it, I will probably try 2 just to see anyway😁
Steering servo will be worked out once the outboard is in place. The mounting bracket will stay on the boat, allowing the outboard to be removed easily by removing the 4mm pivot pin. I have more brackets already printed.
I made a start on the cockpit of the balsa version, trimmed and fitted screen, fitted my 3d printed recaro seats (tops of them, anyway) made up my instruments, 3d printed bezels and photos of dials. A nice momo steering wheel attached to a transmitter aerial section, in turn attached to a plastic power meter moulding from a transmitter.
Looks not bad at all, Action Man liked it so much that he cut his own legs off just so he could fit in it!
Well, actually it was me, with a hacksaw. 😁
I am making him with a servo operated head, I was in the process of glueing the servo in, and noticed it was a constant rotation servo that I was fitting, so I quickly removed it and cleaned off the glue. I will have to raid a servo from something.
Looking promising though, the boats are progressing well.
My painting isnt the best, but they can always get rubbed down and repainted if I feel the need. I really want to get one of them on the water soon, even if its just for some nice photos.
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Great work Andy. They’re looking good. Paint job looks fine from here to me :-))
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I have been very busy since yesterday, a very, very late night and a bit of the morning too.
I was going to try the balsa Javelin with just one outboard to see how it went, but I had to think of a way of getting watercooling to the speed controller. I had a brainwave a while ago, to use an outboard mount assembly, but the pivot point was bored out to accept a 5mm brass tube pickup.
I was going to mount this to one side, but didnt want any extra holes when I changed to 2 outboards, so measured where the 2 sets of mounting holes would be, and decided that I would just go ahead and fit the 2 outboards and the waterscoop mount went where the single outboard had been.
It works out better in the long run, why have one when you can have 2?
Anyway, it was onto working out mounts for 2 esc's and a receiver, took a little while to get it neatish looking, but I am quite happy with it.
To join the 2 esc's watercooling systems, I used snake outer and heated it with my cotton bud pipe bender to stop it crushing. Works nice enough for me. I also made a hull entry pipe connected to pickup with short length of silicone tubing, inside, another bit of tubing takes the feed to first esc, the water outlet exits the hull through another bit of shaped snake tubing. Thats about it really, just need to get to some open water for some testing now.
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That is really cool :-))
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Cheers, much appreciated.
I was wondering if I was being too ambitious trying to run 2 experimental outboards at once. I suppose I will find out when I manage a test.
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The ply Javelin is coming on too, I have now got my motor mounted and connected to propshaft. Rudder is fitted, watercooling system is finished.
I have to make up a mount for the rudder servo and mount my battery tray.
I also need to find a way of holding the different superstructures to the hull. A bit more required than the small magnets I used on the balsa Javelin hatches.
Still a fair bit to do, things always take longer than you think.
I did get to the stage where a bath test was possible, just to see what the motor was like.
I tried it on 7.4v, quite impressive, next up was a test on 14.4v, wow, very impressive, I have no doubts that it will be fast!
One more thing to test..... 22.2v!
I only managed a tiny burst of full throttle, but it was extreme.
Oops, some water has left the bathtub.. bit of mopping up required but worth it to see how much power it has. I dont know what voltage I will end up running, I have 3 packs of 7.4v 8000mah and several home made packs built from e bike cells. I have11. 1v 6300mah pack and several 7.4v packs. I made up an adaptor lead that allows 3 packs to be joined in series, so I can run any combination of voltages.
Very impressed with the motor and speed controller, they were not that expensive, I did hunt for a good while before I found them.
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I like the cockpit detail.
Good to see them on the water and look forward to some speed!
Chris
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just caught up on the build, she is a beauty!
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Thanks, nice comments always appreciated 😁
As you may have guessed from the photos, I managed out for a test of both boats the other night. Nice evening, flat calm and some ducks and a heron as spectators.
I tried the ply Javelin first, a short distance on just the one 7.4 volt pack showed me I was as well just going for the full caboodle and getting it on 22.2 volts.
Good choice 😁
Its a beast, I kept bringing it in to check temperatures of batteries, esc and motor, lukewarm at most. Lovely. The esc has its own fan, the motor watercooling was working well too, with a nice stream coming out of the outlet.
The motor never had any cooling anyway, I added the watercooling jacket as an extra precaution.
I have uploaded videos to youtube but they come up with a padlock shown, even though I select public. I have no idea how to unlock them.
My channel is Macyam
If you look in my videos you will find them, (and loads of others😁)
The balsa Javelin, complete with its lovely twin 3d printed outboards, was a bit less of a success, something stopped on one outboard, I was able to get back to shore on just one, so my idea of using 2 to start with was good😁.
I have still to investigate whether the motor stopped or a grub screw came loose, I am guessing grub screw. They may all need loctite and possibly flats filed on the shafts.
The balsa Javelin didnt look as if it was going to go as fast, but couldnt really tell as it let go before I got near full revs. I will fix any problems if possible and try again. It is experimental after all.
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Balsa Javelin
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What scale is that buddy? I will resin print you a driver for free if you need one :)
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They are both 1/6. I 3d printed some of the parts myself but not a driver.
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I will drop you a message mate. I have a couple of figure designs that may work.
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Cheers, messaged you back.
As I have been finishing off the 2 boats, to the stage where I could manage to test them, I been doing a bit more on the Rapier superstructure and started painting the outside of it.
I decided to miss out the smelly lumpy varnish that I have used as a first coat on both hulls and go straight onto white water based gloss. First coat went on and dried quickly and I made a start on some woodwork in the interior of the wheelhouse.
I get hung up on details sometimes, I had asked, on the Rapier thread, how do the wee guys get in? There was no obvious door.
I spotted a photo of someone's Rapier sporting a hatchway at the rear of the rear cabin. No idea of its proper name but I am going to have one too, so that the wee guys can get in. Lol.
Anyway, now they can get in, but the floors would all be different heights, so I worked out a solution, which in turn gave me more to think about.
I hadnt intended detailing the inside, as the coaming on the hull is visible through front and rear side windows, I have painted the coaming matt black in these areas so it isnt as noticeable, seems to work but it makes detailing in the cabins a bit pointless.
The wheelhouse interior is very visible so I decided to go for some detailing in there. The wheelhouse floor is removable, so that gives me enough access to do stuff in there. I haven't got any windows in either, my hand just fits in the side windows.
I have a nice little ships wheel, 3d printed, saved about £6 compared to the wooden one I bought for the Sea Rover. The wooden one is a bit nicer, it is in an open cockpit so it is more visible. The 3d printed one will be fine for interior use. I have also add some of my 3d printed bezels around some instrument photos, looks pretty good on the Javelins, much better than a bare dashboard. I was going to poke tiny pins through the holes on the bezels, but I cant find them, they might have been binned in a tidy up, they were a bit rusty, heads might have been ok though. I hate binning possible building materials...
I have now ordered some different ones, will see how they look, if they fit.
I will post more photos of the interior as it progresses, it looks very bare just now.
My removable floor/stairs section needs some extra bits added to match up nicely with the inside of the wheelhouse, should have planned it in from the start. Ah well, thats what happens when the plan changes. Lol.
I am not going to spend too long on the interior, its going on a fast hull so nobody will be paying too much attention to detailing. 😁
The Edita superstructure is awaiting attention. It is mostly built, needs the roof glued on before I start painting and I dont want to do that until I do some more stuff in its wheelhouse. Keep what access I have until it's mostly done. No rush, still trying to decide if I want handrails on the roofs, like Sea Rover has, or just leave them plain. I will concentrate on it some more once the Rapier and Javelin superstructures are complete.
I have a few things still to do to them, I will wait till they are done and show the results.
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Andy, I've just logged into my YouTube and pulled your channel up. The latest video that is showing, is the Sea Rover one.
I can't see any of the Javelin.
Will
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Hi Will, I have no idea how to unlock them.
I will try googling it tomorrow.
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I hope that is the issue fixed. Video of Javelin https://youtu.be/Pyi1hckFRUA
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Another one.
https://youtu.be/4NzSwwfRwAA
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Video of outboard powered Javelin
https://youtu.be/a3AgBR7bfMc
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The Javelin gets some red 10mm elastic for 'seatbelts'
Still got to anchor it properly but looks good in my test.
Rapier superstructure has had more done, and its windows fitted. Nearly complete, needs a captain's chair of some sort.
Last pic is progress with the Edita superstructure, with one set of steps down to forward cabin.
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The Rapier seems to perform very well Andy and the Javelin looks like it has the potential to be a really good performer too.
Fingers crossed for a quick and simple fix of the drive and then a 2nd, hopefully full speed run.
Both look good on the water.
Looking forward to seeing the next run you give them.
Nice one.
Will
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Video of Javelin driver Action man with servo operated head
https://youtu.be/zllTWC1hh6w
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Like it!
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The dog doesn't look too impressed!
Chris
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The dog loves chasing radio controlled machines, I have a quadcopter reserved for exercising her. Theres a video on my channel of her chasing one. Sometimes she gets them, resulting in a few hotglue repairs.
She knows to leave it alone if it is on the ground...... in the air though, it becomes chase-able. I cant walk the dog very far so it is ideal.
Anyway, back to my driver, a bit of modification to my drive rod system and I have it working well. At the moment, one screw is holding his head down onto the drive rod's new wooden block inside. The corners of the block provide enough grab to turn his head, but will let it slip if someone tries turning his head. Some people get the urge to start touching and moving stuff.
I had a guy I know came up to me while I was waiting for the wind to drop so I could fly one of my super light (fragile) planes.
He picked it up by the thinnest bit of fuselage, right at the tailplane. I quickly told him to put it down, I had seen it compress by half an inch in his hand..... He looked at me as if I was being ridiculous,with kind of 'I know what I am doing' look.
Anyway. Lol.
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Thats me finished the Rapier superstructure to the point that I can use it, still a lot of details that may get added at some point, my aim is to have all 3 superstructures painted and ready to use, I can worry about details later, the floors are removable on all 3.
The Edita superstructure is coming along nicely, interior of the wheelhouse is painted, still to make and fit steering/instrument console.
I have two coats of paint on the outside so far.
Theres a lot of windows, I have them already cut out, they might need minor trimming. I will glue them in once painting is complete and it has dried for a day or 2. It is water based and dries pretty quick, but you can still smell it a few days later, so obviously still drying.
The good thing about having extra superstructures is that I can still run the boat with one, while I plod away at finishing the others.
I just got around to doing the outboards yesterday, I should really have done it at the start but there you go.
I am hoping to take the white Javelin out soon, maybe get the Rapier top on for a run and some photos and videos.
I managed to break a steering arm off one outboard while trying to get the (tight) pivot pin out, I was really lucky it wasnt the side of the arm I am using. I have others printed, but they weren't as good prints as the one that I broke.
It is still fine to use, it will teach me to be more careful, and to allow a bit more clearance in the pivot.
I opened up the tight pivot hole and bored my pivot pins for small R clips.
Very impressed with the white Javelin, fast enough and I can still go a bit more on prop, nothing was even warm when I brought it in for checking every few minutes. Decent run time too.
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I wanted tiny pins in my 3d printed instrument bezels, so I ordered up some nice brass 7mm ones. How to get them in was the problem, a lift out dashboard would have been a good idea, bit late now, so I came up with my poor man's pin pusher.
Using the tip section of an old transmitter aerial turned round and fed in to the next section from the bottom, so the rounded end of the outer tube is at the tip of the device. The end of the inner rod is ground flush with the tip of the tube.
2 small magnets on the side stop the rod sliding about. As the pins are brass, they dont stick to the device. They just have to be balanced in the end of it with a bit poking out to locate the hole it is going into.
I had maneuvered it between the seats of my Javelin to test it but I will take the seat base/hatch out for doing the rest. I have done one dial/bezel so far.
It is hard to see that I have done anything. The bare holes, on the ones I haven't done yet, show the yellow of the dashboard and look like they have fixings already.
Ah well. I might try and find some stainless/bright pins.
The white boats dashboard should show the brass pins up better than the yellow one does.
Anyway, my pin pusher works well, the only thing I want to add is syringe style handles on the base of the outer tube, as I have to grip it with one hand and push with the other.
I will tape some handles on to test it. I have cat thyroid treatment syringes (that I got from mother in law, she knows I recycle stuff😁)
They were about the right size, just need to find one in my pile of stuff.
It works as it is, so its only a refinement.
I was going to say which dial I had pinned, but decided to see if anyone can tell which one it is?
I found some nice bits of stainless tubing, 22cm long, tip to tip, nice rounded ends, a relatively nice bend, it looks slightly flattened but not bad.
6 for £2.99 from aldis.
I had originally thought about them as exhausts for my boat, but they are too small diameter, and I already have my exhausts made anyway, just to decide best way of fitting them.
They are a good match for the watercooling tubing, and would make a good waterscoop if cut on the bend.
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The last time I had a chance to run the white boat, I maybe gave it too much throttle right away and as it was just about to get to full speed, it cut out, far enough away that a fisherman felt sorry for me, while I was trying to nudge it closer with a tiny toyabi speedboat, he volunteered to go and get it for me. Very lucky.
Would have had to be a cold swim with a very wrecked shoulder.
Anyway, this had me thinking about some kind of rescue boat. Or add something to an existing boat. Sea Rover to the rescue. Lol. I have made my rescue attachment, it has still to be tested. I will put a bit on my Sea Rover post with some pics.
Anyway, why did my esc trip?
Using too much throttle?
Mmm, cheap over rated esc? Possibly.
I have dropped a prop size and will try it with that, it was plenty fast enough last time. If that stops it tripping, that will do me, if it still does it, I have a higher rated esc available if required.
I will take it for testing soon, along with Sea Rover.
I have my newly patched 4 man inflatable dinghy, I will try a trial inflation period in the back garden to see if it's airtight and take that on my boating trip too, in case the rescue boat needs rescued too...... 😁
I found a cat syringe outer for my home made pin pusher. Drilled for a tight fit on aerial tube with a wrap of masking tape around tube to stop it pushing right out the end.
Still got my other bezels to finish off so will get to try it out properly soon but seems perfect.
I am showing my next project for the first time... Another Javelin.... sort of...
The lower cutout cardboard side view is a standard Javelin size, my version of it anyway, it is different, but lengths etc are close.
Above it is a 48 inch version, to save ply wastage, lol, and I always wanted a 4 foot Javelin.😁 It is still very much in the early stages of planning, I haven't even decided whether to do a tunnel hull or just go mono. I am tempted towards mono, but still undecided.
Why go just a little bigger?
I think my stretched version looks quite good, enough that I want to make it, I like building, so any excuse.... 😁
I have enough materials. Might have to use frosties packets for decking though, lol.
I can take the motor and esc out of the white Javelin when the time comes. 2 allen screws and a grub screw. 😁
Another thing I am thinking of doing, was to design it so that my existing superstructures fit it, I have traced the shape required from the white Javelin. If I do a tunnel hull, only the Javelin and Edita superstructures will fit, the Rapier has a deeper protruding stairwell bit and would mean the bit of hull under it would need to be deep to take it. It looked very low.
If I go for mono, it wont be a problem and I can use all 3 tops. It is swinging my decision towards mono.
I think it will look different enough to not really be a Javelin, more Javelin based and I have another thing I am going to do that I think should make a slight difference. Will need to wait for that though, its a surprise. 😁
I cant wait. Lol.
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I have pretty much settled on doing a mono hull version, for now anyway. This will let me use my 3 existing tops/superstructures.
As it wont be that much different to the other Javelins, why build it?
Well, I have a good reason for building it, I have always liked being able to swap things between projects and I have always liked pairs of things, just in case one breaks and the fun ends.
In accordance with this, I actually have a pair of motor setups, one is in use in the Javelin just now but it will be very easily swapped into my new project in about 10 minutes to sit beside it's twin.
I just like building, any excuse does me, besides, the motor looked so lonely in the Javelin by itself 😁
So, anyway, I am terrible at keeping secrets, I was going to reveal my twin motor project when it was further on, but I couldn't wait. 😁
I am still working it out in my head and have some frosties boxes joined together ready for drawing my main plan. 😁
Having narrowed it down to a mono means I can start drawing as soon as I get some energy.
I am still tempted by a twin hull, it would have looked good too, but twin motors meant I would have had to add motor and rudder access hatches in each hull, or go in through the cockpit well, which would be really tight and awkward. Doing it mono eliminates any access issues.
I may decide to go for a smaller twin hull version to suit the superstructure from my 50cm Edita cabin cruiser. I could do a mini Javelin top for it too, just build it to suit the same hatch opening.
That will help use up some of the weird shaped scraps from previous builds. I keep most of the bits, anything from bits of 1/16 square spruce up to big 'T' shaped bits of ply with 2 hull skins cut out.
I am still liking the swappable superstructures, it transforms it into a whole new boat.
I will report progress on the twin motor mono project, once I get going, it shouldn't take that long, just some planning, construction and painting, oh yes, painting..... It might take a bit longer then. 😁 Any detailing stuff is mostly on the superstructures already, so just the hull to do.
I am looking forward to getting started, it isnt going to be that much longer than my other Javelins, but I imagine it will be noticeable when handling it during construction. Be more prone to dings than a shorter one. Just need to be more careful. 😁