Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => The "Black Arts!" ( Electrics & Electronics ) => Topic started by: Martin [Admin] on January 24, 2008, 10:02:14 AM

Title: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 24, 2008, 10:02:14 AM

Found this on a website yesterday,  could be used in a boat?

Turbo Smoke - Fan Driven Smoke Unit
http://www.tastudios.com/turbo_smoke.htm (http://www.tastudios.com/turbo_smoke.htm)

(http://www.tastudios.com/images/cmdimages/smoke_unit_2.jpg) (http://www.tastudios.com/images/cmdimages/smoke_unit_3.jpg) (http://www.tastudios.com/images/cmdimages/smoke_unit_1.jpg)



(http://www.tastudios.com/images/smoking_loco.jpg)

Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: RickF on January 24, 2008, 01:50:14 PM
Sadly Martin, I think not..... unless you have an on-board alternator.

Operates from 5-22 Volts AC

It was looking good until I got to that!

Later - just been back for another look, and they do have a DC version - think I'll get in touch with them while the dollar is cheap!

Rick
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: sinjon on January 24, 2008, 04:11:01 PM
Rick,

Could you let us know the outcome of your enquiry?

Colin
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: DickyD on January 24, 2008, 05:27:20 PM
This is the link for the DC version.  O0

http://www.tastudios.com/turbo_smoke_DC.htm
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: funtimefrankie on January 24, 2008, 06:36:41 PM
Anyone tried these...???

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Smoke-Generator-for-RC-models_W0QQitemZ310016813430QQihZ021QQcategoryZ140972QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: offshore1987 on January 24, 2008, 09:02:27 PM
Anyone tried these...???

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Smoke-Generator-for-RC-models_W0QQitemZ310016813430QQihZ021QQcategoryZ140972QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Yes they are not very good imo iv got 2 tanks with them in the first tank runs it oks but not great though, the second smoke unit broke from the other tank lol, imo they make to much noise also

Something else to look out for is the Hunter Smoke unit though it gets rather hot, but it dos make alot of smoke :)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc127/offshore1987/th_smokeunitingardenforforum_0001.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc127/offshore1987/?action=view&current=smokeunitingardenforforum_0001.flv)

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc127/offshore1987/th_smokeunit222222222.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc127/offshore1987/?action=view&current=smokeunit222222222.flv)

I think A Model World is going to be making something like the JJC smoke unit which should be cool  O0

all the best
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: RickF on January 24, 2008, 11:21:54 PM
Colin

Will let you know if and when they reply to my enquiry.

Rick
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on January 25, 2008, 08:22:58 AM
I've posted some info on Traders Only about our S3 smoke unit. Suit yourselves.
FLJ
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Archibald H. on January 28, 2008, 12:43:23 PM
Hi,
Like 'Offshore' I can certainly advice Hunter Systems smoke unit:
(http://foto.modelbouwforum.nl/albums/userpics/10871/Smoke.jpg)
Loads of smoke. To get this result a small fan is a must.
Cheers, A!H.
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: tigertiger on January 28, 2008, 02:15:25 PM
I've posted some info on Traders Only about our S3 smoke unit. Suit yourselves.
FLJ

Hi FLJ, get your video up. ;)
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: offshore1987 on January 28, 2008, 05:15:47 PM
Hi,
Like 'Offshore' I can certainly advice Hunter Systems smoke unit:
Loads of smoke. To get this result a small fan is a must.
Cheers, A!H.

Hi :) did you close one of the holes up? I found it helped the air flow ( its a shame that they do not fit a fan stock )

all the best
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Archibald H. on January 29, 2008, 10:35:47 AM
I'll try that right away. BTW, how did you close that hole?
I'm still thinking about a way to fasten that smoke unit. Any suggestions?
Cheers, A!H.
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: offshore1987 on January 29, 2008, 05:17:01 PM
duck tap  O0 lol i tryed all diffrent nice ways to do it then just used some duck tap  :angel:  il take some pics in abit then post them up for you  O0

all the best
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: barryfoote on August 11, 2008, 07:14:55 PM
Hi Guys,

Just found the Heng Long smoke unit on ebay for 8.99 ( pounds). They are designed for tanks and run off 7.2volts....Any good for boats?

..If so think I will order one. The price is excellent.

Barry
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 11, 2008, 07:23:30 PM
I've had my eye on those as well.
In the tanks, the output seems vaguely pathetic....

Also got my eye on the Henlong sound units!

Title: Re: SMOKE units
Post by: tony23 on September 12, 2008, 11:52:48 PM
are these units better than the Graupner then  ::) :-\ ;)
Title: Re: SMOKE units
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 13, 2008, 07:40:18 AM
are these units better than the Graupner then  ::) :-\ ;)

They are a different type of unit to the traditional 'heated oil' units eat huge amounts of battery
power but the smoke tends to "linger" quite a long time once produced. They can be quite messy though....

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Forum/PB080014.jpg)

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Forum/Puffer_Jan_0375.jpg)


The JJC unit was the first of the 'ultrasonic water vapour'  fogger / "smoke" devices.
They produce "cold steam" with very low power consumption but the "smoke" tends to dissipate quite quickly.

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Common/JJC_Smoke.htm (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Common/JJC_Smoke.htm)

Harbour Models have a "smoke" (vapour) unit currently available...
http://www.harbormodels.com/site08/main_pages/smoker.htm (http://www.harbormodels.com/site08/main_pages/smoker.htm)

(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Common/Images/DSCN0924.JPG)


Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: BlazingPenguin on September 13, 2008, 10:07:28 AM
On patrol at a local car boot sale, I picked up a DJ/Theatrical type of smoke unit for 3.
First test was a bit hit & miss so the case was opened, I worked out that the pump for the smoke fluid was knackered, but holding the tank higher than the unit gave a decent gravity feed and great huge gobs of smoke.....very "Phantom of the Opera"  ;D

The transformer inside fed 12v to the pump and the tank/heater uses 240v, now this is for use in my 12th scale TID whos over 6ft long, so theres plenty of room for all this. Next step is to try feeding the 240v tank circuit with a 12v inverter.

What I did notice was that once the heater/tank is warmed up....very warmed up, it stays hot for ages, despite the insulation not being the greatest in the world.
Im thinking that I could 'time' the heater rather than have it on all the time, or feed it from a switch, the residual heat still makes mad amounts of smoke.

I tried ducting it up a pipe with a computer fan and it was amazing!!!
I'll try and do a demo and upload to YouTube at some point.

Mention was made before about the 'eerie smoke' gadget from Maplins, I tried that until I discovered it wants AC...not DC, at that time not being aware that I could use an inverter, now thats solved, it could do sterling service in a medium sized boat, say 3ft or so. Be aware that although it only uses water, it superheats it locally and will melt a plasic funnel, I had to line mine with ally at the base. Your funnel will also need holes around the base to allow the vapour to be drawn up.

But all in all its still a viable option.  O0
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: malcolmfrary on September 13, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
Welcome back, Penguin.
How much power does it actually take?  With a very large boat, being able to carry enough battery shouldn't be too much of a problem. Presumably the original was intended to run off mains, with voltage reduction for the motor.  Is the thing that converts the disco oil into smoke just a heating element or something more sophisticated?
Rather than timing, perhaps a temperature regulator would be more effective at making best use of the residual heat.
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: BlazingPenguin on September 13, 2008, 12:13:41 PM
Theres a small transformer that taps a 12v feed for the pump, but the 240v still goes to the tank/heater.

There are two sturdy connections going into it, much like you would see on the rings of an electric cooker, the tank itself appears to be a sealed unit, copper and insulated, albeit rather poorly.

There is a component in line though, a silver diamond shaped gizmo, with a raised surface on one side...definately electrical.

This thing gets hot....Oooyah! hot! >:(

Given it works for ages after power has been disconnected, Im assuming that timing or lower voltage would be in order as you say.

I'll get some piccies if you want?
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: malcolmfrary on September 13, 2008, 08:36:22 PM
A silver doobry in line is probably a thermal fuse (yeah, any other kind?).  Sounds like its just a box with a heater to contain disco oil, and a fan to waft it away. 
In a model large enough to carry it, there will probably be enough payload to have a big enough battery for a decent run time.  The tricky part of designing an oil heater is the element - it needs to use the bare minimum of power while at the same time keeping enough temperature to vapourise enough oil to make the smoke.  And if the oil runs out, it mustn't incinerate its surroundings.
The model rail ones suffer from being sized for best effect in a small model at short range and mains powered (eventually).  In boats, we tend to want a lot at a fair distance and are stuck with limited power due to the limitation of battery power.
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: BlazingPenguin on September 15, 2008, 03:42:13 PM
I'll try and do some pics of the beast this evening for entertainment purposes.
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: red181 on September 15, 2008, 04:40:58 PM
Barry,
a friend of mine has the heng long tank style, imo no good for us with boats, very small reservoir, not much smoke, look great on the tanks, but its really meant for start up on the engines, not so much constant running, have you seen the current thread going on in the sales section? No mustang mark has developed a smoke unit. I looked at this sort of water vapour unit, instead of the hot wire type, and am currently experimenting with a guy on the hot wire type. The unit he made for me was awsome, but as I  have no air flow in the hull of the boat my problem for now is it keeps overheating :(
The water vapour unit would be safer, particularly in a wooden hull, but my exhaust stack on the model is quite small, and with the water vapour type the problem is water droplets on the inside of the exhaust blocking the tube and stopping the smoke (steam) escaping.
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: barryfoote on September 16, 2008, 10:06:52 AM
pmdevlin,

Yes I have seen the new one by no mustang mark, and am very impressed with it to. Have to find a boat to build to put one in now...

Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: garston1 on September 20, 2008, 06:41:51 PM
Hiya there's a feller at our lake in new brighton wirral, he's selling these smoke units that take 10 drops of baby oil per 15 mins of usage. Probably the best I've used and cost 20 quid and come in various sizes plus 6 and 12 volt. BUT they're not proportional. Have a look at my drifter below.  O0
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: barryfoote on September 21, 2008, 08:58:25 AM
Hi Garston and welcome to the mad house. That drifter of your looks superb. The detailing and weathering are excellent. Do you have any details of her and the smoke unit which sounds very interesting indeed.

Barry
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Marks Model Bits on September 21, 2008, 05:18:31 PM
Here is a link to my generator fitted in Canning.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlK6o9v9qvI

Mark.
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: garston1 on September 21, 2008, 06:43:38 PM
Hiya Barry, Here's some more of my drifter today taken at New Brighton.  The boat itself is totally scratch, the only metal is the search light and copper Nav lights, the rest including the hull is wood, the rust is real rust mixed with super glue and the barnacles are made by brushing fibre glass resin on the hull, throwing sand on it and then painting it green and brown. And of course the the smoke unit is a 12v unit that includes a tank for bay oil an element thats coated with glass fibre insulation and kept damp with the oil and then heated, the result is the smoke you see in pics below. photos of the unit will be posted soon, cheers. Martin 8)
Title: Re: my drifter
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 21, 2008, 06:58:19 PM

Fantastic photos, some of the best I've seen of a model boat!
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: The long Build on September 21, 2008, 07:28:42 PM
Were those photos taken today ? , if so I must have been stood right behind you when they were taken, there were some cracking boats there today and the pontoons make it look really great, quite a bit of steam came out of that when you set off.
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: bosun on September 21, 2008, 08:47:56 PM
Superb Photo,s and a cracking looking boat, I take my hat off to you, excellent.
Bosun
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: garston1 on September 21, 2008, 08:49:41 PM
Mmmm, long build, i was wandering what that was sticking in my back? Yes great day, lots of sun, lots of heat, the tide was in, loads of boats in the river and plenty of models blowing smoke! on the lake. What were you sailing? p.s. thanks for the coms bosun
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: The long Build on September 21, 2008, 09:07:05 PM
Not sailing , just passing through on a family bike ride , while the weather was fine, could not stop long as had just spent 2 hrs at my clubs pond so wife not keen to stop again !!

Heres a picture I took today of one of our members boats wilth oil smoke generator.

 
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: longshanks on September 21, 2008, 09:18:30 PM
Hi Martin,
Are you sure thats a model boat - superb  O0

Perhaps you could do a small piece on weathering so that we mortals might attempt to emulate you  ;)

Cheers
Longshanks
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: garston1 on September 21, 2008, 09:58:39 PM
Hiya longshanks, it's amazing the amount of people that come up to you and say 'don't you think you should paint it,' they don't realise how long it took to get it like that lol. P.S. My big flowerclass is photo of the month in October, now there's a boat!  :)
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: garston1 on September 21, 2008, 10:07:29 PM
Where do you sale Longshanks? That also looks like a nice drifter :)
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: garston1 on September 21, 2008, 10:10:54 PM
Sorry, the above question was for longbuild, sorry longshans! Too many longs lol :)
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: The long Build on September 21, 2008, 10:29:32 PM
When I actualy Get to the pond and have a boat that is working at the same time it is at The Heath Runcorn, Website should be at the bottom of this post, We are at a Display next weekend at Victoria Park Widnes , but Unfortunately I do not think that the owner of the drifter will be able to make it., I must agree with Martin, Martin  :D that you have taken some great shots , mind you if it was the Camera I saw you could have been half a mile way. Does the boat not get sticky with the oil smoke, compared to the Water vapour smoke system by JJc and now teh new one developed By Nomustangmark.
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Stavros on September 21, 2008, 10:51:50 PM
Hi I have a Graupner oil burner on my Tid and that does not get sticky




Stavros
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: garston1 on September 21, 2008, 11:01:15 PM
It doesn't exactly get sticky, you do get a bit of residue in and around the funnel but the smell is great
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: red181 on September 25, 2008, 12:59:16 AM
Hi Martin, nice to see that boat out of the shed!, it looks even better in the daylight. I also got one of those smoke units for Orca (its finished now, finally!), I had some probs with the unit overheating, and (he) (dont want to name him without permission) has the boat to make a "one off" smoke unit for it, cant wait to get it back.

Paul
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: garston1 on September 25, 2008, 06:50:41 PM
Hiya Paul, long time no see. i had a problem with overheating too, the maker took it back, put it in another case and that one slightly overheated so i gave him another heavier duty case to fit one in for me and at the moment i'm waiting for it back. I think a metal case might do it.  Are you off to blackpool next month?
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: red181 on September 29, 2008, 12:45:38 AM
Hi Martin, Got Orca back last wed night. Unit is now in a metal case, some "unecessary" portholes removed (I had no airflow where the smoke unit was), And an additional fan to improve cooling and air flow. THere has been a lot of thought gone into this by the maker, on the bench, it works superb. All being well will be able to have a go at New Brighton monday sometime, weather permitting
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Colin Bishop on October 08, 2008, 04:54:23 PM
Is there any potential in these electronic cigarettes? http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/gamucci-micro-electronic-cigarette/index.html

and

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/video_and_audio/7658334.stm

Seems they are rechargeable and "last for a day".

Colin
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: garston1 on October 08, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Probably because of the price, close on 50 quid, i don't think it would be a viable investment. For that price you can buy a JJC unit or the equivalent  :(
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Colin Bishop on October 08, 2008, 06:35:33 PM
But if they were to become popular then the price would almost certainly come right down. Also, you could get two for the price of one with both the boat and its owner emitting clouds of vapour!
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: The long Build on October 08, 2008, 06:51:58 PM
From the video's I have seen it takes somebody drawing from the unit to get the smoke out , it does not appear to smoke on its own.
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Reade Models on October 08, 2008, 07:00:54 PM
Probably because of the price, close on 50 quid, i don't think it would be a viable investment. For that price you can buy a JJC unit or the equivalent  :(

The only JJC units you can buy are second hand. (And often sell well above this price).

Colin

The component parts cost so much as to make any meaningful price reductions impractical.

Regards, Malc


Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: herrmill on November 19, 2008, 01:20:21 PM
Has anyone tried making their own water vapor generator like the one shown in the Solant RCMB Club hints & tips page? 

http://www.srcmbc.org.uk/ht_pkt_smoke.php (http://www.srcmbc.org.uk/ht_pkt_smoke.php)

I'm itching to try for the ironclads since I'm limited on headroom & this would work under the funnel.

Chuck
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 19, 2008, 02:16:17 PM
Or you can by a ready made one from Mustang Mark - http://marksmodelbits.com/ (http://marksmodelbits.com/)
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: herrmill on November 23, 2008, 01:02:24 AM
Thanks Martin, but I can buy all the parts here for under $10.  I've ordered a standard single as well as a 3 disc volume fogger for trial use.   

I'll let you know how my experiment works once the mist unit arrives.

Chuck
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Big Ada on November 24, 2008, 09:16:16 AM
See reply 8 on Smoke Genorators easy, cheap, and works well.

Len.   :-))
Title: Re: Smoke units - which one?
Post by: Capricorn on December 19, 2008, 02:18:53 AM
Hello, I have been looking at various methods for making smoke/fog for my model boat (10' long destroyer).  I found quite a few interesting items here http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html  I was hoping to make a lot of smoke (more than probably is fitting for the boat), and thought about using a propane burner, similar to the portable insect foggers (a coil of tubing around the flame that likely gets quite hot).  But much repeated advice has nearly convinced me to stick with electricity, especially since the batteries can likely spare the power for it.  It seems "glycol" is most common over my way, but I've no experience with it.  Have some "fog juice" on the way so will be interested to see how it works.  Cap