Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: GG on February 19, 2008, 10:17:17 pm

Title: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: GG on February 19, 2008, 10:17:17 pm
I'll admit to enjoying both fast electric and warship models, so something based on torpedo boats is an obvious thing to build.  My first attempt, based on the 80 foot Elco PT boats ( Model Boats Nov 99) showed that speed, duration and handling were fine if the model weight was kept under control.  A second attempt, based on the smaller "Miami" rescue boats built in the USA, had to be constructed to about half the weight of the PT boat, resulting in the change from a 545 motor on six sub-C cells to a 400 motor on six AA cells.  The result was the same good performance and handling as before and this one was published in the June 06 issue.

A year later and another fast scale type of model was built.  Sticking with 1:32 scale and a more ambitious project was started using the "Hellcat" prototype PT boat made by Higgins.  This was smaller than the Elco model but I wanted it to be fast so a racing 500 motor and six sub-C cells were squeezed into the hull.  The result was rather faster than expected, infact it was suggested I ought to enter races with it, but the handling still safe and predictable.  To calm things down a little, the motor was replaced with a standard 540, it's still fast but I can enter steering events with more chance of sailing through obstacles rather than over them.

On the basis of these three models I've learnt that fast scale models are practical if the weight is controlled.  The Elco is about 1.5 kg and the Hellcat around 1 kg.  These are reasonable targets using balsa for the hull structure plus a little plywood, plastic but the minimum of metal.  A single motor driving a large propeller via a gear reduction seems to be the way to go for speed and duration.  I've had success using a 2:1 reduction and "X45" props with the 500 motors.  A single rudder with sufficient area to keep the model on the right heading is also essential.

With luck the editor of Model Boats will publish this plan so I might get the chance to indulge in some fast scale racing?

GlynnG
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: GG on February 19, 2008, 10:18:56 pm
Whoops, one photo failed to get attached!

GlynnG
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: Mark H on May 30, 2008, 10:26:56 pm
Has anybody made a Hellcat yet as the plans have recently been published in Models Boats?

I was thinking of scaling up to around 3 foot in length. Any thoughts or pitfalls that I should look out for such as motor or rudder sizes/

All help gratefully received as this will be my first scratch build
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on June 11, 2008, 08:03:41 pm
I'm making your hellcat, have cut all the bits out but need to buy the propshaft before I do anything else.

Mines going to just have a straight drive 540 (not geared) as I'm after scale, not speed.

Have also built all of the cabin which is ready to be glued on as soon as I make the rest.

Any photos of it going?
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: GG on June 11, 2008, 10:26:53 pm
I've no photographs of the Hellcat sailing, it's not the sort of model you can operate whilst holding both transmitter and camera!
But, if you go onto the US website, RCGroups, scroll down to the Boats section - Dock Talk - Westport Mayhem - page 13, you will find a video of my Hellcat sailing taken by Ghost 2501.
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on June 12, 2008, 01:08:21 pm
adfsgj';;dhjks]0sdgh thats fast!!

I thought my Crusader was going to be quick....

Definately going to be straight drive then...
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on June 12, 2008, 01:34:43 pm
this may help others view it

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668857&page=13

Hs93
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: DickyD on June 12, 2008, 01:42:42 pm
Surprisingly good video for ghosty, its not all blurred. :o

The boat goes extremely well too. O0
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on June 12, 2008, 02:19:30 pm
Glyn,
Bother, another one for the build list!

Given your awareness of the weight/speed balance have you given any thought to lithium cells?

I (abundantly) do not wish to light a fuse with those who hold strong views, but there are plenty of Li-ion cells around with good voltage and capacity (and the deeeeeply safety conscious can go for the Saphion cells)

I use my aircraft packs of Lipo cells, with basically the same brushless motors (also very light) and get very sprightly performnce on 2 cells (8V) and SP400 running gear . 
I also use reclaimed Li-ion cells recovered from laptops connected up as 2S2P and carefully charged on a lithium charger.

andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: jviewing on June 12, 2008, 03:16:29 pm
Hi son Johnathan (13) is building the model fron this months model boats free plan. After much discussion he has chosen a direct drive with the prop and rudder set about 10mm further back and a shorter prop shaft keeping the motor a 540 in relativly the same place as the plan. He is very keen to detail the model and say's that speed in not the issue.
Any comments? as I am sure he would welcome Glynn's or any experienced modellers input.
Best regards Jeremy
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: GG on June 12, 2008, 05:02:19 pm
Sorry guys, I've no experience with lithium cells.  I would be worried about overpowering this type of model, the video was taken when the model had the standard 540 motor, with the racing motor it was a shade more exciting but still safe!
Altering to direct drive and a smaller propeller might be OK but I've always found that geared drive to a larger and probably more efficient propeller gives me a good combination of speed and duration.
If speed is not called for I would be tempted to (as in the Miami Crashboat) use a Speed 400 motor and high capacity Ni-mh cells. 
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on June 25, 2008, 01:42:51 pm
Glyn,

The video and borrowed copy of the comic and plan have grabbed me:  You have a lot to answer for ;D

I suspect that I will go for the geared 500 motor option, but most of the motors of that size I have are electric flight motors - I suspect that revs will not be an issue, but duration might be!

If  the end of the propshaft is available I might also try a brushless outrunner in direct drive with li-ion batteries (liberated from laptop power packs). 

But first build a hull....

Thanks for the design - hope there are many built!
BTW-  have there been a lot of the original PT boats built?  I bought the mag in Christchurch airport (NZ) solely for the plan

regards
andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: GG on June 25, 2008, 11:16:59 pm
Andrew,
             Good luck with your build, I look forward to seeing how it turns out.

As to the Elco PT boat plan, I have no idea how popular it is.  To be honest the published plan was faulty as the !*$!!^*# draughtsman who redrew it clearly felt he knew more about it then the designer.  A successful model can be built from this plan but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

To be fair with "Model Boats", since this incident they have always sent me a copy of the plans to check for any mistakes/omissions before it gets published.

Regards, Glynn
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on June 26, 2008, 01:19:32 pm
Glyn,

I'm an aeromodeller,  I expect very little from plans, and definitely not symmetry or panel shapes. 
My first indoor model was Walt Mooney's Sparrowhawk where the wings are of different sizes (one was quite small , almost nothing at all, and the ..........)

What should I be looking out for on the Elco PT published version?

It  REALLY sounds as if you need a proving builder to verify that the published plan is more-or-less numpty proof ;D
Am I first in a queue now forming?

andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: GG on June 27, 2008, 06:31:04 pm
Andrew,
            Basically the "draughtsman" who redrew the Elco PT Boat plans decided that you did not need to allow for the thickness of the hull sheeting. This enabled him to avoid drawing out a couple of pieces at the right size and shape.  As a result a hull built from this plan does not match my prototype and needs extra work to make things fit.  Even so, models built this way do seem to work but it could have been a complete disaster!

With the magazine letting me check the plans against my copies, I do not think there is a need for, nor would there be time for a "proving build".

By the way I'm an aeromodeller too, still indulge in the local fields, much to the amusement of the locals.

Regards, Glynn
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 06, 2008, 04:04:54 pm
My bulid is now drawing to a close, having just put one side of hull sheeting on.

I would like to thank you very much for designing this boat, it has been very enjoyable to build and quite challenging also to get the details done nicely. If all goes well it should be at the lake next sunday or maybye even thursday.

Shall post some pics of it when it's done.

Today I picked up someones surplus copy of a Model boats' from June 2003, with the free plan your Carrier Uss Bodega Bay, and have decided to build this next (possibly over the winter), anything I should know about it? any further build notes?

Cheers for the Hellcat

Andy
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 08, 2008, 06:17:33 pm
Finished!

The first thing you will notice is it's a different colour, obviously due to personal preference, and the lifeboat is a rib not a dinghy.
The rear cannon has a micro servo under it as promised, and moves with the rudder.
Been in the bath, floats nicely with no leaks, and has tons of power, most of the water that was in the bath is now up the wall  O0
Used a slightly bigger rudder than on the plan (for stability) with a smaller amount of movement.

Looking forward to thursday!


(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3141.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3143.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3144.jpg)
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 09, 2008, 05:06:24 pm
Beautiful boat, Andy

But how did it happen that you built it on a tidy version of my workbench without me noticing?

Did you get to break out the champagne, and which part of the world are you in?

andrewh
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 10, 2008, 01:22:20 pm
Havent broken out the champagne yet, that (hopefully) will be in around 2 hours from now, depending on whether the canoeing people are off our lake,  (the normal lake they go on is drained at the moment for renovation)and probably whether anyone else turns up.

As for the workbench, I'm magic  ;)
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 13, 2008, 01:38:09 pm
Didn't manage it on thursday, so it got a run today. Goes very well, a bit twitchy and doesn't turn at full throttle too happily, but over all extremely pleased with it.

Got a bit wet when I handed it over so i could take some photos, it was put staight into full reverse (it was drifting into shore) and the back dug in. got a bit of water inside but nothing serious. Those spray rails really work well and are worth the fuss of getting them on.

Plains straight away from stanstill and can get up from anywhere through the throttle range, at a somewhat strange angle, the back stays in the same place on the water but the nose lifts until the front half of the hull is completely out of the water. This is probably due to the positioning of the battery, which may need some experimentation.

which part of the world are you in?

andrewh

I'm in Stevenage, England.

I understand you are using straight drive? I used an X45 prop but it would probably be better off with an X40

This boat shall hopefully be used for years to come, it's great fun O0
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: GG on July 13, 2008, 09:16:09 pm
Congratulations Andyn,
 Yes it is a model that needs to be consciously driven 100% of the time, gentle turns are OK at full speed but tight turns call for slower speeds.  You might find it makes life easier if you have a transmitter that can reduce the servo travel around neutral (Adjustable Responce Curve) or use dual rates.

The best high speed trim appears to be with the model running more or less level, perhaps the bows slightly high.  Only the curved part of the bows should be clear of the water and the spray strips will keep it running cleanly.  As you have found out, slow astern only!

Definately not suitable for the modeller who cannot use proporional RC correctly, that is smooth commands not full power/rudder with nothing inbetween.
Glynn
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 14, 2008, 01:23:54 pm
Andy - congratulations, sounds like a very successful maiden flight!

Sounds too from your comments and Glyn's that she needs to be flown with sensitivity (a bit like a plane).  I seem to remember Peter Miller mentioning the characteristic sitz of the Higgins boats - bow (just) clear of the water at speed.

Glyn, I hope you will forgive me in advance, I aim to do a VERY SWIFT version of a Hellcat. 
I am running a bare-deck version of Richard Webb's   Portsmouth harbourmaster's launch using home-made brushless ratmotor and S400 running gear.  In many respects it could be a stand-way-way-off PT hull so it will get upperworks in balsa or foam, tubular torpedoes and a suitable marine paint job.  It goes like stink on 2 Liion cells, making a weird whistling noise
I will claim only that it is INSPIRED by you and your plan

action and pictures folllow
and that reminds me;
Andy.  Pics?
andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 14, 2008, 02:26:49 pm
I'm afraid that the pics are a bit naff as i took them on my phone, which isn't all that good at moving pics, however next time i shall take a decent camera with me.


It does need some careful conrolling, but I'm used to that as I've been flying a Shock-Flyer for the last two years (if you're not sure what one is, tap it into youtube). It really does need some careful controlling and I can't be asked with exponential!

The reason it sits so far back on the plane is because as I did straight drive with propshaft and mount in the same place as the plan, I assumed that the battery would need to be further back. The positioning is aadjustable, but where I had it yesterday was overcompensation. The high level of pitch was only at high throttle, but at scale speeds it looked accurate.

More pics to follow.

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/Image080.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/Image081.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3160.jpg)
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 14, 2008, 02:37:20 pm
Thanks very much for these, Andy - they were taken under wartime conditions, at a secret proving location!

If you are a shock flyer (I tend to do indoor FF and scale flying) you could use some of your 3S Lipo packs to help her move out - , and maybe a small brushless for added efficiency;  or would more power less weight be too much of a good thing?

We should never forget one of Hailwood's maxims, that the throttle goes both ways

andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 14, 2008, 04:33:57 pm
I may stick a lipo in, we'll see.

That would mean I would need a different ESC as the current one can't do LiPo's
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 21, 2008, 09:39:27 am
Progress on my tribute Hellkit
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 21, 2008, 09:47:45 am
Torpedoes are rolled paper and blue foam ends - in the last picture two of them have been coated with my favourite filler - fast-drying acrlyic primer filled with microbaloons.  They weight a bit less than nothing

 All the parts are about 80% of the plan size since that is the approx ratio of lengths - I can't do anything about the starved-horse look, so i am going to calin that this is a hitherto unknown prototype made by the aeromodellers at Higgins Boat using the bare minimum of scantlings and neat dope.

She will be finished in a White/grey blur splinter camo pattern as this prototype was  shipped to the Aelutian Islands for operational tests.  Motor in the boat is  a 7.2V S400 at the moment, but it is a 10 sec rubberband swap for a brushless.

Bridge structure to be carved in Blue foam with wind deflectors, etc in styrene or ply, or balsa depending on what's to hand at that moment.

andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 26, 2008, 06:52:30 pm
Hellkit Launched!

I am having a lot of fun turning this hull into a stand-way-off Hellcat tribute

As is traditional in this picture the torpedoes are held on by bluetack and the supestructure by gravity

I may give her an outing at the UK Footy Nats tomorrow at Aylesbury.

Anyone in the vicinity who wishes to have a go with a racing Footy will be very welcome and be offered a Footy to try if not a series of races!

andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 26, 2008, 07:19:51 pm
Glyn,  I tried your method of getting the right size rings - I sucked a Donut very carefully, but never did get it suitable for use as a Carley Float!
andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 27, 2008, 03:01:02 pm
I gave up with polos in the end and had to cut them from depron O0

Mine's now fitted with the simply excellent ACTion Micro Diesel Sound system. Couldn't hear it at first because the speaker was inside the hull however have solved this and it is now a great addition to the model.

The speaker slides fairly easily out of its mount and is also connected to the unit via some gold plated connectors, making for easy removal of the top deck.

This morning it was on patrol in the lake, keeping an eye on the canoeists and Bernard's new R/C Duck

Apologies for poorness of photos, taken on phone as my dad has my camera today.

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCF0063.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCF0064.jpg)
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 27, 2008, 03:09:05 pm

As is traditional in this picture the torpedoes are held on by bluetack and the supestructure by gravity


That poses an intersting question, how do you hold the deck on? There is not mention in the plan or in the documentation.

With mine I did it by gravity but at the back I have two swivelling servo horns
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 28, 2008, 10:34:04 am
Andy,

Didn't get a maiden flight yesterday - too busy racing the Footys.

However my 13 year old son was there sialing too, and in the gaps we watched the local club sailing their assorted coastal craft - there were a couple of large Perkasas (one marked up as PT109) a George Turner MTB going like stink and a largish PT boat.  My lad wanted to know why we couldn't make a large, impressive boat like that?
We will: thanks again , Glyn

My deck hatch was made long before the plan, so it is basically a square over the motor (I always entomb my rudder servos - if there is a problem I can always commit surgery).  The deckhouse and forward torp tubes are integrated onto the hatch as well.
Like you I usually fit a couple of hatch-catches.  I usually cut mine from a length of clothes-peg with a small screw for a pivot

This time I will try a supermagnet at the rear, with a hook at the front to hold it down and locate the hatch.  If that fails I will use the catches

It has just ocurred to me that we have many 8xAA pencell packs from model Hovercraft etc, and these would probably give a brief but exciting motor run - must give it a try!
andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: GG on July 28, 2008, 10:57:37 am
The prototypes hatch is held down by a balsa "tongue" at the rear edge which fits under the fixed deck.  The front of the hatch is secured by a nylon bolt through the deck in the cockpit area which screws into a nylon bracket fixed to the plywood motor mount.  The nylon parts being from a model aircraft wing bolt set.

The same system is used on the Elco 80' PT boat and keeps the hatch in place no matter how the how much the model bounces around.  The Miami "Crashboat", being a little slower, manages with just a simple plug in deck hatch.

Glynn
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 28, 2008, 11:59:11 am
Glyn,

Thanks very much for the hatch information - quite a lot of us come from an aeromodelling background - hence the balsa and tissue, too

PT boat plans being dug out and copied (to allow ironing the patterns thru onto 1/4 sheet)  I think we will probably start at the plan size, then see if we need a bigger one!  I drive an Espace, so without using the roof rack we can go to about 7 foot!

andrew
I'm trying to research the authentic splinter disruptive pattern, especially the one that precisely corresponds with the matchpots of emulsion in my drawer. 
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 30, 2008, 01:14:21 am
I have literally been TRAWLING the net for info on the Hellcat, in an attempt to add more detail. Whatever I can get, I'll take...


I'm not putting the plan down in any way, I'm just really, REALLY obssessive about such details  O0

The list so far...

In the first photo, you can see that there are rails on the front similar to that of the ELCO PT boats, but extend out sideways of the 'cabin'. There is a porthole on each side of the 'cabin'. There is some kind of blob on the port side front of the 'cabin', in front of the porthole that appears to be unrecognisable. The back of the 'cabin' does curve as per the plan, but is flat at the back (I won't bother changing this...). The third picture is an in service hellcat, and clearly has a cannon, possibly double barrelled on the bow. The second picture is a drawing of a typical radar mast, which I thought the Hellcat may have, however there are three b:~{*^%($ in the way in the first photo, and no mast at all in the service mod. I managed to find photo 4 which changed all this, it does have the typical mast, so I'll be updating the mast soon. The bow rails appear to go out from next to the 'cabin', slightly inwards, then to a couple of posts and down at 45ºto the deck. There is an arial emerging from between the gun turrets. The modified boat niether had a mast nor the metal cage around the turrets. There is an overhang right the way round the top deck over the side of the boat. There are no deck cleats. There is a semi-circular arc in front of the foremost torpedos. In the first photo there are three bars running vetically under the warhead of the rear torpedo, I have no idea what they are and they aren't in any of the other photo's. Finally, I'm not sure about those torpedos, they look fatter in the pictures.

So concludes our obssessive, compulsive tour of The Details Of The Higgings PT-564 Hellcat

Data of PT564, The Hellcat

    * Experimental class Motor Torpedo Boat:
    * Displacement: 40 tons
    * Length: 70'
    * Beam: 20'
    * Draft: 4'6"
    * Speed: 46 knots
    * Armament: 2-4 21" or 4 18" torpedo tubes
    * Complement: 10-11
    * 3 Packard (W-8) gasoline engines
    * Built at Higgins, New Orleans, and commissioned 2 September 1943

    The Hellcat was one of a kind, only one ever entered service.

The "Hellcat" In 1943, Higgins Industries decided to attempt to save weight and increase the speed of the boats. This was achieved on a smaller hull (70 feet) that had less mass in the area of the upperworks. That meant more speed for the boat. The Hellcat was faster than the production based PT boats of the time.

The boat was armed with two twin .50 caliber machine guns in turrets, a 20mm Oerlikon anti-aircraft gun on a tripod mount and four lightweight Mark XIII torpedoes, mounted in lightweight side-launching roll-off racks. Tests were also performed with mounting two sets of twin .50 caliber machine guns side-by-side on the foredeck and firing them remotely from the cockpit.

It was found that the Hellcat was too small to carry the extra added guns carried by the boats in action at that point of the war to the later stages of the war and the design was not put into production.

If anyone else has any other photos or info on the details of the hellcat, they shall be very gratefully recieved

Andrewh, you can see the splinter camo scheme and many other schemes ( trhough not the hellcats) at http://www.ptboatworld.com/ZebraScheme.htm (http://www.ptboatworld.com/ZebraScheme.htm) and http://www.ptboats.org/ (http://www.ptboats.org/)


(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/HigginsHellcat.jpg)
(http://www.ptboats.org/pti-info-images/p6-Radar-02.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/HigginsHellcat2.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/PT-564.gif)
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on July 30, 2008, 02:30:53 am
Great models,...

Here is a video I just filmed last Sunday...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTkvl-JzkZc

 8)

Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: Shipmate60 on July 30, 2008, 09:48:33 am
I just love the sound of those main engines and the quote "they get crazy"

Bob
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 30, 2008, 10:10:00 am
Umi,

You are wonderful person!  Thanks very much for the Video - I had never seen any PT/MTB type craft in the water or in motion before.
I believe that the PT boat shown is a 78 foot Elco - one of the later ones?

(I'm sorrry that your springer didn't have much effect on the Landing craft, but well worth a try ;D)

andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 30, 2008, 01:06:33 pm
Andy

Thanks for all the data on the Hellcat, apparently she was sold in 1947 or 48, but without any more information about what happened to her.

As you say there are several differences in the few pics that are around - for example the last (smaller ) pic of the stbd side seems to show the superstructure with a flat angled front (with some round thing in the middle) I can almost make myself believe that the other stbd pic shows the same flat (not pointed in plan view) front.

If anything more turns up I will contribute it

BTW - welcome to BreezyB!

andrew

 
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 30, 2008, 05:05:06 pm
Umi,

You are even more magnificant than I first thought! 
It turns out that 658 was laid down on my birthday (but not the same year) and in looking at her restoration site I have finally seen what the Higgins exhausts looked like!
  I am sure that they exhaust underwater at low speed and open at full speed
With hindsight I would have made them from tubing or possibly Macaroni
Thanks,
andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 30, 2008, 08:59:26 pm
the last (smaller ) pic of the stbd side seems to show the superstructure with a flat angled front (with some round thing in the middle) I can almost make myself believe that the other stbd pic shows the same flat (not pointed in plan view) front.

You had me confused for a bit too, however I've worked it out. Its not that its flat on the front, it still has the angles, but the camera would have taken the photo at a very quick exposure, travelling at high speed, in blazing sunshine. This must be why the other pictures aren't that much cop either.
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 30, 2008, 09:55:20 pm
Little update on the new detailing....

More to come....


(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3244.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3245.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3246.jpg)
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 31, 2008, 11:11:09 am
Andy,

You are getting this well detailed

I chased up Umi's reference and found this site with a vast number of pics of a real Higgins boat, its fittings and armament - I think that there will be a lot of detail you might be able to use since Higgins would certainly have raided the stock when it came to fitting out the Hellcat, wherever possible.
http://www.savetheptboatinc.com/
in particular there are a couple of cutaways in http://www.savetheptboatinc.com/new_page_1.htm
(at the bottom)

After all of that I have been unable to locate  the perfect picture of a Higgins  exhaust I found yesterday - they are clearly a cast Brass or Bronze part which is a smooth curved pipe which grows out of a flat flange which bolts to the side of the boat.

I don't know the layout of the engines, so I don't understand why the spacing is uneven - praps the engines exhaust one bank over each side of the boat?

I confess that I am an "impression" scale modeller, but admire those with more skill and patience - thats you

andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 31, 2008, 12:43:45 pm
Andy,

You are getting this well detailed


I confess that I am an "impression" scale modeller, but admire those with more skill and patience - thats you

andrew


You have no idea how good that makes me feel  ;), I'm 16 and this is the first boat I've ever built.
http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=all&CISOBOX1=pt-564&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP2=exact&CISOBOX2=&CISOFIELD2=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP3=any&CISOBOX3=&CISOFIELD3=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP4=none&CISOBOX4=&CISOFIELD4=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=all&t=a (http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=all&CISOBOX1=pt-564&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP2=exact&CISOBOX2=&CISOFIELD2=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP3=any&CISOBOX3=&CISOFIELD3=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP4=none&CISOBOX4=&CISOFIELD4=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=all&t=a)

Unbelievable! all the original Higgins drawings!

Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on July 31, 2008, 01:37:22 pm
Andy,

Well researched!
This is a total treasure trove for the Hellcat

When my 13 year old returns from holiday we will decide (spelled HE will decide) which PT/MTB we will make and how big.  Now that brushlesses are economically available up to huge sizes I see no problem with a 5 footer, but finding somewhere to run it - more of a challenge.

The attached pic is the best I have found to get an idea of the exhausts

andrew
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 31, 2008, 05:20:44 pm
Andrew, see http://www.geocities.com/mosquitoboat/fittings.html (http://www.geocities.com/mosquitoboat/fittings.html) Some really nice glassfibre pt hulls and fittings there. The 1/16 scale ELCO boats are 60 inches (5 feet)

As for exhausts, open this and zoom in:

Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on July 31, 2008, 07:00:13 pm
PT Boat fittings : http://www.nauticalmarinemodels.co.uk/PT_fittings.htm (http://www.nauticalmarinemodels.co.uk/PT_fittings.htm)
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on August 02, 2008, 01:14:43 am
More detailng - loads to come  O0

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3247.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3249.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3251.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3252.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3253.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3255.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3254.jpg)
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on August 02, 2008, 07:49:51 am
Glad everyone enjoyed the video.
I just happened to be onboard the LCI on an unofficial tour when the PT fired up to leave.
There would have been no other place to get a shot like that.  8)

The, "They get Crazy"... comment was made, because the "volunteers" and  vets got a chance to
take some Navy brass on a running tour up the river. At one point they opened the throttles wide to
impress the Officers. As they flew up river, they passed a county sheriff patrol boat monitoring river traffic.
The aluminium patrol boat gave chase, but was unable to gain on the PT. The had to abandon the chase, and
call ahead to another  patrol boat to rein in the PT boat and its crew of veterans.

The engines are set in the engine room, one center stern, and two forward to either side.
So I believe the stern engine exhausts out each side, and the port and starboard engines exhaust out
their respective side of the boat.

Here are some images I took Last year at the 2007 Maritime Heritage Festival.
Enjoy
 8)

Engine hatch in the center of the boat
Port engine (stern to the left of the picture)
Starboard engine (stern to the right of the picture)
Forward firewall, and fuel control system.
Engine room looking to the stern firewall.
Port side exhaust lines.


Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: Edward Pinniger on August 04, 2008, 06:46:14 pm

http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=all&CISOBOX1=pt-564&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP2=exact&CISOBOX2=&CISOFIELD2=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP3=any&CISOBOX3=&CISOFIELD3=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP4=none&CISOBOX4=&CISOFIELD4=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=all&t=a (http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=all&CISOBOX1=pt-564&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP2=exact&CISOBOX2=&CISOFIELD2=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP3=any&CISOBOX3=&CISOFIELD3=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP4=none&CISOBOX4=&CISOFIELD4=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=all&t=a)

Unbelievable! all the original Higgins drawings!


These should be very useful for building + detailing the old Revell "PT-212" plastic kit! (also a Higgins 78' boat). Thanks for posting the link.
One question, how do you actually save the image files from the site? There doesn't seem to be the ability to save the entire image to disk rather than just the bit you're currently viewing.
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on August 04, 2008, 08:45:55 pm
I had to email the bloke who runs it, who put them all into a PDF file for me, if you you want it, just say and I'll email it to you O0

One word of warning though, each page is around 80 inches by 50 inches  ???

Still haven't got any pics/ vids of it running, shall have to sort that soon
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on August 10, 2008, 01:48:50 am
I feel increasingly modest about my rather non-scale HellKit, but plunge on in the genuine knowledge that it was inspired by Glyn's plan and is a lot of fun!

She got her Aleutian splinter colour scheme, and a trial run with camera on the local canal  - the pictures and video clips are not of the best, but give the idea of the speed and fun available.

There is an old bloke talking on the video clips - pay him no mind :)

There is an open album in Photobucket with video clips
http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd159/andrewh_photo/Hellcat/?special_track=nav_album_album

I am still trying to discover how to embed video clips in posts, so's they appear as a picture - will try this
http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd159/andrewh_photo/Hellcat/?action=view&current=Hellcatmov1.flv

andrew


Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andrewh on August 13, 2008, 07:38:46 pm
's After some family discussion my son has picked the project boat - it will be a 78 foot Higgins from Peter Miller's plan

Build has commenced - is a swift and simple fashion
Would we like a build log?
What will we power it with?
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on August 13, 2008, 07:53:26 pm
If its 78 foot long, you'l need one huge motor in it, and some very expensive Li-Po's   ::)

How big is it? Scale or speed?

Yes we would like a build log, although in a different thread, because if it was in here that would be a paradox so big my head would explode  {-) Good luck with it  O0

Andy (going off to celebrate his massive wit and intelligence =] )
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on August 14, 2008, 04:25:30 pm
Finally got some half decent moving shots. Very little light available and was taken with one hand operating throttle and the other taking photos. Stuck one of my car racing batterys in it and it jumped out of the water & nearly rolled over, so was throttled back and driven more consiously, with slow acceleration etc.

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN32882.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN32892.jpg)
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: BreezyB on August 16, 2008, 03:34:56 pm
Thanks to all who contributed to this thread by GG, the pics and video info has been very helpful. The Hellcat "duo" Andrewh and Andyn are streets ahead of me in build progress but at least I can incorporate some of the ideas and suggestions into my Hellcat at my leasure!!. Nice work , chaps !!  O0
Barrie.
Title: Re: Higgins Hellcat
Post by: andyn on August 16, 2008, 03:50:05 pm
If you are making an appearance at Mayhem At Llanberis, be sure to look for the gazebo with Bill Warder's giant red makara in it, the Hellcat shall be residing in there.

Good luck with your build  O0

Andy

p.s offer is still open to email the reference plans to people ;)