Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: Martin13 on March 28, 2008, 06:14:17 am

Title: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 28, 2008, 06:14:17 am
Due to a particular members constant prodding to post my build, I have finally got the nerve to post - Well here goes.

I have been at it for about 6 months with various degrees of success and still have not finished the hull. But before I get into the build, a little background first.

As with many, in my younger days loved to build plastic kits of all sorts with large scale trucks becoming a favourite. When I started my apprenticeship, my supervisor got me interested in model boats of which I built several but my favourite was a RAAF Crash Tender. Back then boats were made of marine ply and/or balsa powered by IC motors and had heaps of fun building and operating the models. As time went on, model building became less frequent due to work demands and other interests.

Times have now changed and I have slowed down a lot since then and building processes have changed with new products/material available.Living in the country, property owners are reluctant for modelers to operate IC boats on there ponds for fear of water contamination (fuel) and noise, so have now become familiar with electric motors and such. Back in my early boating days, if plastic/fibreglass was mentioned, everybody looked at you strangely and asked were you joking - today it's the norm - so another new thing to learn.

I intend to post this build a little different from other builds as I will be posting pic's including my stuff-ups, IE what I intended/wanted to do but the results errr......  >:(

The purpose is to show Newbies that errors are made and some big ones too but not to get discouraged and give it a go. As we say Down Under "Sh*t Happens"

Also for the more experienced modeler, I want your comment, I NEED your comment. Give me suggestions on maybe another way to have approached the task at hand. There are areas that I have given little to no thought about and will need the knowledge of the many years of experience on this forum...

Special thanks to Steve/Ripslider for sending me 3 word documents complete with screen prints on how to resize an image, email and post pic's on forum ( a real step by step dummies guide)

So as stated earlier - here goes


Martin Down Under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: tigertiger on March 28, 2008, 06:45:26 am
Hi Martin

Excellent O0 . I really look forward to seeing this. How big will she be? I am guessing pretty big. :o

And a big thanks to Steve/Ripslider for going the extra mile for another member. O0

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 28, 2008, 08:04:18 am
Damm.....just spent 30 minutes to write more text and add Pic's.....then my Internet connection dropped out.

Think I best to write and save in a Word Doc, then cut and paste

Dammm >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 28, 2008, 09:26:39 am

In my early days of model boats, I was given a set of Model Maker plans drawn by Ken Hards of HMS Brave Borderer.( a hard chine planning hull) I then had the plans increased  to a scale of 1:16 approx length 72”, Beam 18” ( 1800mm x 450mm) as I thought that one day I would like to build this boat.

The plans show little to no detail of how to construct - very basic drawings.
Now times have changed and decided it was time to get back into model boats and Brave Borderer was going to be my first build after along time in retirement (modeling that is).

Special Note: At this point of time, I was not aware of the Model Mayhem Forum.

So here goes – The plans show the bulkheads/formers spacing at 12” to 15 “ apart, this is far too wide as I intend to skin with 1.5mm marine grade 3 ply, intermediate formers will need to be added. After many headaches and lots of cursing, I finally made a set of formers of 8mm plywood giving a new spacing of 6” to 8” (150mm to 200mm) much better.

This type of hull has an internal keel and was also made up of 8mm plywood. I also used two strips of softwood as doublers as strength for the centre prop shaft and these ran from the stern till about 2/3 along the hull. At that time, I thought that the doublers were sufficient but now believe them to be an overkill for the size of material used

I do not have pics of the build process as the hull is basically completed, so I have taken pic’s as it stands now.

Still having Internet problems - will try and post pics seperately

Martin doon under

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 28, 2008, 11:27:45 am
Hopefully a pic appears
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 28, 2008, 11:31:58 am
and one more !


martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Shipmate60 on March 28, 2008, 11:44:09 am
Martin,
That is one big beast, how do you intend to power her?

Bob
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on March 28, 2008, 12:02:49 pm
Hi   NO Bob that is the babe  ::) ::)


aye
john

bluebird
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: boatmadman on March 28, 2008, 05:00:19 pm
Hi,

I built a Borderer for my first attempt at scratch build! I learnt a lot the hard way - there was no mayhem back then!

Ian
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 28, 2008, 08:55:42 pm
Hi,

I built a Borderer for my first attempt at scratch build! I learnt a lot the hard way - there was no mayhem back then!

Ian

Great quote Ian, that's what has happened here - learning the hard way. Try to build a boat with no assistance and hope it turns out okay.

In this instance, it was all trial and error. As I continue with this build thread, you will see the fun and games I had with the hull - but I did enjoy doing it.

Bob,
At this stage motors will be 3 x 700BB or maybe 850's although on this particular hull, I think I would require a VW starter motor to get it to plane.
More to come shortly

Martin doon under

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 28, 2008, 10:43:01 pm
With the formers in place on my building board keel in place along with doublers its now time to think about the chine timber and the stringer that forms/runs along at deck level.

Apologies, I am not familiar with the correct terminology for these timbers – as I refer to them as the bits of wood that run the full length of the hull that I am eventually going to stick the covering material to. ???

First up the chine timber-the piece of wood that forms between the side of hull and bottom. This is going to be tricky. If you are familiar with the Brave Borderer/Perkasa hull, you can picture this in your mind. The timber runs fairly straight for 2/3 thirds of the length of the hull then has to be bent/curved to meet at the bow. Also to add a challenge, the chine will need to be bent downwards towards the deck at the bow.

First Attempt.
I cut a piece of 19mm square softwood to the correct length and cut slots close together into the timber to allow me to bend the material to obtain the curve I required-these slots can be seen on the next pic.
Well, there was no way on earth that the material was going to bend that far – scrap that idea.

Second Attempt.
I traced out the chine line from the plan and transferred this to a plank of 19mm softwood but only the curved area as the plank was not wide enough and then cut it out on my bandsaw. I placed this timber in position with a straight length of 19mm square softwood and allowed for a 4” or 100mm overlap. At this point I proceeded to make a join by diagonally joining the two timbers and glueing. The second Photo shows this join as a long pencil mark on the chine. This method is used a lot in model gliders and makes for a very strong joint

I now have the correct curvature for the chine to meet on the centre line at the bow. At this point I then slotted the material as previous in order to bend the chine stringer towards the deck-this attempt actually worked so I used the same method to make the deck stringer as the photo shows. The forward most area of the bow was built up from block balsa

forgot one other thing, you can see from the pic that I had a problem with one of the intermediate formers and had to add extra material-another stuff-up >>:-(

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: IainM on March 29, 2008, 12:14:23 am
Hi Martin,
I'm really very interested in seeing how you get on with this one!!  In particular how much power you end up having to provide.  Based on my 30" one that consumes around 45 watts to get on the plane and using the scale cubed rule, I guess you'll need around 400 watts total power from your three motors.  I'm not convinced about this rule of thumb so hopefully your experience can help.

Fascinating ........ and very well done.  I'm learning as you go along, so please keep up the posting  :)

Thanks
Iain

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 29, 2008, 01:12:59 am
Hi Martin,
I'm really very interested in seeing how you get on with this one!!  In particular how much power you end up having to provide.  Based on my 30" one that consumes around 45 watts to get on the plane and using the scale cubed rule, I guess you'll need around 400 watts total power from your three motors.  I'm not convinced about this rule of thumb so hopefully your experience can help.

Fascinating ........ and very well done.  I'm learning as you go along, so please keep up the posting  :)

Thanks
Iain

Good to hear from you Iain.....please keep watching this space as I'm sure you will have a laugh or too.

The early parts of this build give a good indication of what NOT to do as you will see in the next few posts.....But remember, even though the hull did not turn out how I intended, I did learn a lot about model construction and had a lot of fun and laughs along the way, which in my mind is the most important part........

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 29, 2008, 01:20:47 am
With chine and deck stringers in place and all glued together it was time to lay the 1.5mm plywood skin.
This was going to be achieved with the use of 4 panels starting from the bottom of the hull.

Prior to laying and fitting the plywood skin, I got a little ahead of myself and decided to file/sand the balsa blocks to make the bow area of the correct shape and sand in the chine line as a guide when laying the skin.
It was a good idea initially, but I went too far and sanded down level with the formers not allowing for the thickness of the skinning material... Ho Hum, something else I would have to fix later….

It soon became evident that I was not going to be able to lay the plywood skin all the way around to the balsa section at the bow as I was unable to bend the plywood to meet the curvature of the hull. I then decided to skin the bottom of the hull up till one former back from the balsa bow section and plank the rest. This worked out okay for the bottom of the hull and used small brass nails to hold the skin whilst the glue set.

Next step was to glue and nail the skin for the sides of the hull as I was able to bend the plywood right up to but not over the balsa bow without too much cursing. After the skinning glue had dried, I proceeded with cutting out strips of 1.5mm ply for planking about ½” or 12mm wide.
In order to plank the bottom of the hull, I had to add extra partial ply formers to support the planks. Planking was very fiddly as I never attempted anything like this in the past but I had a lot of fun. Due to the curvature at the bow section, I had a lot of problems trying to hold the planks in place including over the balsa bow (which I previously stuffed up) whilst the glue set-a quantity of brass nails were used.

After completing the planking I noticed that I had a number of gaps between the planks. On the inside of the hull, I used 30 minute Epoxy resin between the joins – a little messy but added extra strength to the planked area as this part of the hull will eventually be covered over. For the outside to the hull, I decided just to use carpenters wood putty or something like it.


Martin from the land of the Big Red Roo

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 29, 2008, 03:20:50 am

Having had some experience building model boats even being that a long time ago, I initially thought myself as an Advanced Beginner, but as you will see in the next few posts – I'm now reclassified as a Newbie.

WARNING TO ALL NEWBIES – Avoid at all costs, how I proceeded next…

Having now laid the skinning ply along with the planking, I had a number of gaps especially where the sheeting met the planks, a slight step was apparent. On checking out a model supply website here in Oz, I purchased this putty called “Milliput Putty”. On opening the box I found two sticks, one green and the other yellow and according to the instructions, break off equal amounts from both sticks and squeeze together till you have one uniform colour then apply as needed.
So I followed the instructions and placed it quite freely in the areas that needed to be built up and the gaps between the planks and let set.

BIG MISTAKE. >>:-( Forget using sand paper, this stuff set like concrete. In trying to file off the excess, the thought of getting out the 4” electric grinder crossed my mind on several occasions.
Over a number of weeks, I used a small rotary grinding tool similar to a Dremel as this was turning out to be a real nightmare. In other areas that needed filling, I used a water based carpenter’s wood putty and even that set pretty hard. Note: at this point in time, I was not aware that one should use P38 filler.

As I stated earlier, sanding was going to be a long pain in the rectum job and in sanding the hull managed to get through 1 to 2 layers of the plywood-not recommended…but life goes on


Martin the frustrated :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 29, 2008, 04:49:01 am

With the task at hand at trying to sand the hull and keep the correct shape (mind you-fighting a losing battle) at the hull during the day, evenings were spent on the Internet researching Brave Borderer.
After a period of time researching, I eventually came across the Model Mayhem Site and was impressed with the many models in the galleries. Later I joined in on the forum and found it a haven for information, modeling tips and very friendly/helpful people
 
With information gathered from the forum including many emails sent to the UK, I eventually managed to get hold of the Original Vospers Ltd Brave Borderer build drawings (at great cost). These plans included profile plan , top view showing superstructure layout, top view showing how the boat was built i.e., gas turbine engines, exhausts, generators, controls, radio room etc, sectional drawings at various ribs and so on. The last plan was the hull/former line drawings as per the original build.

On comparing these drawings with my model and the Model Maker plans it became very evident that my models chine line was completely wrong at and near the bow not to mention that I could not make the chine line equal on both sides of the hull. Also my hull bow comes to a sharp point where as the Original was rounded off. No matter what I tried, I could not get it right as the pics show.

Maybe, If I mounted some feathers on the rear I could then use the hull with my dartboard...Hmmm, must give this some thought.

I then printed off a few pictures of my hull and took them to a fibreglass supplier asking for help on how to fix the problem. This supplier runs courses on how to fiberglass, make moulds etc but are very popular and am now on a waiting list.
They supplied me with instructions and a heap of fiberglass stuff. Not ever having worked with fiberglass before, I thought I may put this little project on temporary hold and ask the forum for advice.

A number of you may remember a post I started “Fibreglassing a Hull” an invaluable tool, at least for me and a must for Newbies

Martin not as frustrated now  :) :) :)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 29, 2008, 10:08:09 am

A number of you may remember a post I started mid November 2007 “Fibreglassing a Hull” a most invaluable tool.

The information gained from this post i.e. various members telling me “what works for them”, armed me with a load of options on how to achieve a hull that I wanted.
It was quickly becoming apparent that my hull build would not fill my requirements and too heavy plus I did not have the necessary skills to carry out the fibreglass hull repair.

So, what am I going to do – easy, store it and start again, being the easiest thing to do. It was not a waste of time building it but rather a great training aid in modeling.

It’s now the Mark 1 hull and proudly lives high on a shelf for all to see. Now lets plan and start the Mk 2 version....


Martin The Wise O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 29, 2008, 11:16:27 am

From the information and help gained from the “Fibreglassing a Hull” post, I had several options that I could use.
One option was to build a hull planked with 3mm balsa and fibreglass. I have seen this before on a Freemantle Class Patrol Boat and was ideal for that shape hull and I also intend to use the same method much later when I plan to build the same boat.

Second Option was to build a balsa plug, create a mould and make a hull from fibreglass. This was a smashing idea but the problems would be great. As on the Mk 1 hull, I had problems just trying to get the correct shape of the hull and had never fibreglassed before.

Third Option was to build a hull using the Double Diagonal Planking method, then fibreglass over the lot. It didn’t take too long for me to realize what ever method I used that fibreglass was always a part of the process. Oh well, looks like I am going to have to learn how to use this stuff after all.

I opted for the Double Diagonal Planking method-strong; light weight and looks like a good challenge but most importantly – fun to try out.

Now that I have an accurate set of plans and the method of skinning the hull, I set out making formers and keel once again of 8mm ply. I used ½” or 12mm square softwood doublers that traveled the full length of the internal keel so the planks may be glued to. The intermediate and deck chines were also made from ½’ or 12mm softwood.
Now that I am going to plank this hull, I needed to install intermediate stringers to help support the planks and keep the correct shape of the hull. As with the Mk 1 hull, I decided to use block balsa to make up the bow area, that is, from the very front to the first former and sand down to the correct shape.

You would think that after all the mishaps I made on the first hull, I would not make the same mistake again – WRONG…I did it again, I sanded the balsa blocks down to the former and did not allow for the thickness of the planks… >>:-(


Martin the keen modeler O0 O0

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 29, 2008, 11:54:42 am

Finding planking material was not easy but with a lot of hard slogging managed to find 0.6mm AAA grade marine 3 Ply. A sheet 48” or 1200mm square cost $75 Aud and I needed 2 for the job at hand (had to do a 300km there and back trip to pick up the material).
I laid out the sheets and proceeded initially using a 10mm spacer hard up against a steel straight edge and used a sharp knife to cut out the strips of which this took some time to complete. Then I started planking the hull

What do you think of the Mk 2 version so far???

Martin and I like my new hull O0 O0 O0

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on March 29, 2008, 12:59:26 pm
John said you were doing a brilliant job and you should put the build on the forum and I have to agree with him, brilliant job and nice to see plenty of photos. O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 29, 2008, 07:48:56 pm
John said you were doing a brilliant job and you should put the build on the forum and I have to agree with him, brilliant job and nice to see plenty of photos. O0

Thanks for your kind words Richard.
Yes, John's been at me for some time to post my build and I intend (now that I know how to use one) to take as many detailed photo's as possible.

Martin the excited :)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: peterd on March 29, 2008, 08:18:58 pm
and one more !


martin doon under

Martin    O0 O0 O0 O0

Peter
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 29, 2008, 09:42:50 pm
Hi Peter - long time no see

Here are more pic's. Planking comming along well

Martin the never ending planker
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 29, 2008, 09:50:31 pm
And another pic.

First layer almost completed - Would you believe that is 400 planks...

Martin the planker
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 01, 2008, 12:16:26 pm
Completed first layer of planks and filled hollows with P38 then started 2nd layer in opposite direction - now just the last few planks.
It's very noticeable now where I got carried away sanding the bow but will lay 3mm balsa down and re-shape

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on April 01, 2008, 12:27:38 pm
Looking good Martin. O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 02, 2008, 11:52:15 am
Thanks DickyD,

Just waiting for glue to dry on last planks, then fix bow balsa where I sanded too far.

 No.1 hull keeping No.2 hull for company

Martin way doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 02, 2008, 11:55:14 am
More pic's
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: bigfella on April 03, 2008, 05:06:20 am
Martin

Looking Good. That is a lot of planking, I don't know if I could be that patient.

Regards David
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 03, 2008, 09:39:18 am
Martin

Looking Good. That is a lot of planking, I don't know if I could be that patient.

Regards David

Thanks David

  :D 800 planks in all. The 2 sheets of 1200mm square 0.6 ply was just enough :)

After Dad passing away, I found it quite therapeutic but sometimes a pain in the rectum for a 1800mm/6 foot model
But I must admit, it does look good on the inside of the hull - outside will be fibreglassed

Martin the very patient planker :D :D
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 03, 2008, 11:52:28 am

Planking completed, bow error corrected (where I sanded off too much)
Low spots in Hull filled and sanded with one coat of resin applied and dried followed by a light sanding.

I placed woven fibreglass over hull and decided that since I have never fibreglassed before that glass should be cut into 4 panels. 2 for the bottom of hull and 2 for each side of hull.

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on April 03, 2008, 08:45:17 pm
Food for thought Martin   one of the good sides of a Forum is ‘You meet people from all over the world’ but this does have a drawback.

When people give advice; the people giving the advice don’t know the capabilities of the person receiving the advice – and, this was the case when I was giving you advice about your hull build.

If we had known each other personally, I could have assessed/known how good of a builder you are.

This may have altered your thoughts on your build.

When we first discussed diagonal planking; and the materials to use and the procedure to use; I for all my sins have to be excused because I took you as a complete novice.   I was expecting the planking to have some unevenness and also to have a certain amount of large gaps – WRONG!!!!!   So here we go, this is for anyone else who is interested also.

First of all, think of the material that you are going to be planking with; in your case it was 1/16 planking.  This doubled up for the two skins and equates to ⅛ inch thick hull.   When we look at this and think about the strength of this actual build – you have produced a very, very strong hull – near enough ‘bullet proof’.

This is because of the makeup of the actual material you have used and also the way you have applied it.

I bet now, if you took the boat, you could literally bounce this across a concrete floor without any damage DON’T TRY THIS THOUGH  then you proceeded to coat it with another extremely strong material – woven roven or woven matting – and coated that in resin.

Now, if we can stop there and just think about why we are using the woven roven in the resin; because it is going to increase the strength even more to a hull that doesn’t really need strengthening any more.   What we should have done is, just give the hull two or three coats of epoxy resin.  Not polyester resin, but, epoxy.

This epoxy would have penetrated the first layer of your hull’s outer layer of plywood planking ONLY to the glue bond of the plywood.

Effectively it would create a good true seal from exterior environments.   This would have been all that would have been required on this type of hull.

Sorry my mate, but don’t bother trying to remove what you have already done.   Dress it up as per plan; and you are going to have a slightly heavier hull – but, immensely strong!!!! 

Now for other builds; there are many way of building hulls with many materials and a lot of these materials, plus workmanship would not stand up alone to the environment that we use them in.

Let us take for instance, a large hull built from balsa wood – which is very practical – a lot of people build this type of hull very successfully using balsa wood.    However, one of the drawbacks with this is, if the outer skin is damaged, it absorbs water pretty quickly.  Joints will begin to spring with the absorption of water through the damage – if left unattended that is.

To counteract this, what a lot of builders tend to do is give the balsa wood a coating of polyester resin and then, over the top of that, sometimes they will use car body filler to fill any discrepancies in on the hull.

Then, over the top of that, when it has been sanded they will apply either a layer of chopped strand mat and resin, sand it to a smooth finish or, tissue mat and resin.   This does two jobs;

a)   it gives an effective barrier between the exterior elements and the balsa wood and
b)   also slightly increases the strength of the hull build

If we go one stage further and add matting to the inside of the hull, which we should do, this will also protect the hull from water penetration on the inside.   It will also add a little more strength to the hull.

In actual fact, this type of hull can be classified as a true composite build – like that which is seen on some real/life sized boats – i.e. pleasure boats/sailing boats etc.

The other type of construction is when we use tougher materials; the more tough the material is, the less exterior protection we have to add – well that is in theory.  When we say protection we are referring to either an epoxy or a polyester barrier between our elements and the exterior of the hull.

The other reason we use a polyester/mat/tissue is – if we have had to do a lot of reshaping of the hull – say if we have left a lot of gaps in the planks and we have had a lot of hollows to fill in with car body filler.

When we apply a skin of epoxy or polyester laminate e.g. when I say laminate, I mean mixed with chopped matting or woven roven.   This actually bonds all the materials together in one harmonious structure.

Hope this gives you some thought Martin and everyone.

Aye
John e
Bluebird
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on April 03, 2008, 09:08:03 pm
Bet that makes Martin scratchy doon under very happy John having to use the fibreglass when he didn't need to  {-) Do you think you should have told him that ? Ooops.
I was wondering why he was doing that seeing the job he made of the planking. :-\ Thought it must be me. {-) Caught you out didn't he ? O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on April 03, 2008, 09:17:16 pm
Dicky, hi ya

I think Martin had worked this out previously  :)  and it is one of the drawbacks of not knowing everyone's abilities, and for all I know he could have built a hull full of holes - just like mine - MTB DOES STAND FOR 'MY TINY BRAIN' YA NAR.  ;D ;D :D :D {-)  SORRY Martin doon under.

john
bluebird
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on April 03, 2008, 09:20:43 pm
As you say John, better to play safe, after all his boat is likely to be put in water at some time.
BTW have you found that destroyer yet ?
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 03, 2008, 11:56:56 pm

                           This is all good – “GOOD CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS”
Food for thought Martin   one of the good sides of a Forum is ‘You meet people from all over the world’ but this does have a drawback.

When people give advice; the people giving the advice don’t know the capabilities of the person receiving the advice – How true  and, this was the case when I was giving you advice about your hull build.

If we had known each other personally, I could have assessed/known how good of a builder you are. Must admit John, even I was surprised how well the hull turned out.

This may have altered your thoughts on your build.

When we first discussed diagonal planking; and the materials to use and the procedure to use; I for all my sins have to be excused because I took you as a complete novice. When I posted that thread re “Fibreglassing a Hull”, it was because, this is how things are done these days. The procedures for building and materials have changed over the last 30 years since I last built a hull. Having said that, I asked questions as a Novice would, hoping that I would get clear and precise instructions on the best way to proceed using todays methods and you VERY willingly provided such information with NO obligations  and am very grateful for you in doing so    I was expecting the planking to have some unevenness I do have some  and also to have a certain amount of large gaps –no gaps just shear luck  WRONG!!!!!   So here we go, this is for anyone else who is interested also.

First of all, think of the material that you are going to be planking with; in your case it was 1/16 planking.  This doubled up for the two skins and equates to ⅛ inch thick hull.The material I used doubled up to 1.2mm which I believe made it just over 1/16th     When we look at this and think about the strength of this actual build – you have produced a very, very strong hull – near enough ‘bullet proof’. I wouldn't go that far but strong none the less

This is because of the makeup of the actual material you have used and also the way you have applied it.

I bet now, if you took the boat, you could literally bounce this then youacross a concrete floor without any damage DON’T TRY THIS THOUGH  proceeded to coat it with another extremely strong material – woven roven or woven matting – and coated that in resin.

Now, if we can stop there and just think about why we are using the woven roven in the resin; because it is going to increase the strength even more to a hull that doesn’t really need strengthening any more.   What we should have done is, just give the hull two or three coats of epoxy resin.  Not polyester resin, but, epoxy.

This epoxy would have penetrated the first layer of your hull’s outer layer of plywood planking ONLY to the glue bond of the plywood.

Effectively it would create a good true seal from exterior environments.   This would have been all that would have been required on this type of hull.

Sorry my mate, but don’t bother trying to remove what you have already done.   Dress it up as per plan; and you are going to have a slightly heavier hull – but, immensely strong!!!! Actually the hull with the glass on it, is still lighter than the Mk 1 hull as I used to build a long time ago – SEE – your method has worked

Nothing to be sorry about John, as it was still my decision on how to proceed. When one asks for advice, it is up to that person as to whether he/she uses such information. You provided an idea and I was keen to try it out having never constructed in this method before.
So, DickyD thanks for your support but if John thinks he had upset me with those comments NO WAY. It is those type of comments I seek on this Build Thread – Good Constructive Comments.
The comments can only help me with my build and can be a guide to the Newbie along with other modelers having similar problems/mishaps.
So, having said that – Keep It Coming – I Love It.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 04, 2008, 02:42:41 am
Apologies to the forum – as stated earlier, I have proceeded with this build further than what is currently posted and hope today to bring it up to current status.

Fibreglassing – Before I precede, a little explanation about the choice of fibreglass. I made the decision to use 185gsm woven roven fibreglass as this was recommended by the supplier of where I got my materials and by club members stating that their will be less sanding required if I used this material over chopped strand matting. I also felt that the hull needed to be glassed over as the total thickness of planking was 1.2mm or 1/16th to 3/32”
When originally discussed with Bluebird re fibreglassing, I believe there was a misunderstanding on MY behalf as to material – I put this down to that fact we live in different countries and in some cases we call things by different names. We live and learn.

For the novice like myself, when it comes to fibreglass, I do not recommend using this type of material – you would be far better off using matting and more sanding, but at least have a better finish.

When I tried to cut out the 4 panels of glass, the damn material would not stop fraying – I had strands everywhere and found it almost impossible to have clean edges.

The two bottom panels went on with ease with roughly ½” overlap at the keel and about the same on the sides of the hull. The two side panels went on quite well with also about the same amount of overlap, but then I noticed something.

The side of hull where it meets the bottom ( chine stringer), the Fibreglass appeared to bulge out slightly ½” from the hull and regardless of my efforts, could not get it to sit down correctly. This happened on both sides of the hull from the transom till about 2/3rd along the length of the hull. The rest of the hull turned out okay with regards to no ripples or air bubbles, although the problem with strands was still evident – I had them everywhere over the hull.

After one week of pondering what to do, it was evident that the hull edges will need to be sanded

The build is now at its current status – I have just started to sand the hull where the glass bulged out.

If you look at the close up, you can see what I mean…Ho Hummm

Martin doon under


Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 04, 2008, 02:51:35 am
more pic's - the glass over the keel is okay, light reflection - look along the edges - also note the strands everywhere

Come on you experts - please comment :) :)

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: tigertiger on April 04, 2008, 03:56:06 am
Another great thing about this site, and this is part of the nature of forums, even if the advice given is not needed by the builder it helps others with less experience.

I have learned so much on this site.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 04, 2008, 04:10:53 am
Another great thing about this site, and this is part of the nature of forums, even if the advice given is not needed by the builder it helps others with less experience.

I have learned so much on this site.

TT
Glad to see that you are enjoying the build. The idea of this thread was to show others especially Newbies that when things go wrong, don't despair, as their are experienced builders on the forum to help you out - You Are Not Alone O0

Besides, we all stuff-up, I'm just proud of mine ;) ;) ;)
Feel free to comment anytime TT
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 04, 2008, 01:44:52 pm
Big day today at sanding hull. I have sanded one side of hull to remove defective fibreglass and have since learned that the fibreglass material I have used was far too heavy - a much lighter material would have been more appropriate. Unfortunately, I needed to sand through the glass and actually exposed the Plywood planks - now the end grain is exposed one more time - need to seal this.

With regards to planking. In hindsight, I now feel that I would have had an even better finish of the planking if I added more intermediate stringers of say 1 inch apart. I had another look at Bluebird's Whaleback build and noticed that John had his stringers much closer together - much better idea as this will give the planks more support and less likely to get dips or hollows in the hull.

My model as I sand, have noticed that I still have some dips in the planking which will need filling with maybe a mixture of resin and talcum powder, then resanded - and I dislike sanding. >>:-(

Does this sound like the way to go ??

Martin 
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: tigertiger on April 04, 2008, 02:07:27 pm
Try and find David's Isopon P38 car body filler.

Available globally, and is designed to be sanded, so is softer than wood, unlike other car body fillers.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: andi4x4 on April 07, 2008, 12:53:30 am
There is also an "Easy Sand" version of the P38 - certainly available in the UK in a tube and I think a tub. This is somewhat easier to sand than the regular P38 and may be more suitable ? I use it quite a bit for almost andy job that requires a filler.


Superb build Martin !  Makes mine look like an Airfix kit !

looking forward to seeing some more progress !

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 07, 2008, 07:40:11 am
There is also an "Easy Sand" version of the P38 - certainly available in the UK in a tube and I think a tub. This is somewhat easier to sand than the regular P38 and may be more suitable ? I use it quite a bit for almost andy job that requires a filler.


Superb build Martin !  Makes mine look like an Airfix kit !

looking forward to seeing some more progress !



Thanks Andi. Glad to see your enjoying the build and hope you can pickup tips of what NOT to do.
I managed to get hold of some body filler equivalent to P38 here in Oz. The company assured me it will do the job fine as its easy to sand and designed for the Auto industry to touch up scratches and pin hole dents. Have tried it out today and working fine - I still have a lot of sanding to do. I knew their was something I didn't like about building hulls >>:-(

Listen, your model is no Airfix kit, it's the normal scale one usually builds MTB/PT's. My eyesight ain't what it used to be, so my theory is "If it's big, I can see it" O0 O0 O0

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: freelancer on April 07, 2008, 04:24:29 pm
Greetings from Canada

You appear to be open to suggestions...
Here is a tip that i learned from my 40 inch ELCO. I found that despite the single motor, the model planed beautifully but when i turned too hard the model would dig in and the speed would of course drop fast, to eliminate this I glued blocks onto the transom as to limit the movement of the rudder arms to approx 30-40 degrees, now no matter how hard i turn the model has its own turning arc and much less stress...of course it is a wider turning arc but there is a price to pay for all decisions..

HTH

John
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 12, 2008, 09:20:18 am
TIP OF THE DAY

Whilst sanding fibreglass - was hands BEFORE you go to toilet ::)

Martin itchin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 19, 2008, 12:29:49 pm
Thanks Freelance for the advice, will keep that in mind.
In using P38, I have not yet mastered the skill of not putting on too much - hence even more sanding to do.
I have almost completed all sanding to the main area on the hull and successfully filled all hollow areas. The only problem I have now is that I got slightly carried away when sanding and have managed to put a radius on the chine line from the bow to about 8 inches back (see photo's).
Have been advised to build up chine line with P38 and sand to correct shape. This I will commence in the next few days...

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: andi4x4 on April 19, 2008, 08:12:29 pm
Looking good Martin !

Boy - do I wish I had a workshop that big  :( :( :( :(  mine is also the office and is about 6'x10' !

(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9453/0014421qn2.th.jpg) (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0014421qn2.jpg)


 :( :( :( :( :( :( :(


regards

Andi
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on April 19, 2008, 09:13:42 pm
Looking good Martin !

Boy - do I wish I had a workshop that big  :( :( :( :(  mine is also the office and is about 6'x10' !

(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9453/0014421qn2.th.jpg) (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0014421qn2.jpg)


 :( :( :( :( :( :( :(


regards

Andi
Your office is a lot larger than my shed, plus you've got carpet. >>:-(
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: andi4x4 on April 19, 2008, 09:41:58 pm
Your office is a lot larger than my shed, plus you've got carpet. >>:-(
[/quote]

Ah - Carpet - so that'll be that coloured fluffy thing on the floor that the missus keeps moaning about then !  ;D ;D ;D


Regards

Andi
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 19, 2008, 09:57:27 pm
Looking good Martin !

Boy - do I wish I had a workshop that big  :( :( :( :(  mine is also the office and is about 6'x10' !

(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9453/0014421qn2.th.jpg) (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0014421qn2.jpg)


 :( :( :( :( :( :( :(


regards

Andi

Good one Andi, O0 we live on a fairly large property and have a bit of room. A mans shed is his domain and I wish my workshop was as tidy as yours. The centre bench where I'm building the hull  measures  6' x 12'. Actually the shed is 20' x 40' and I have another at right angles the same size. :)

Having said that, because I have the room doesn't mean that I am a better modeler. In fact, looking at other peoples builds, it appears the smaller the workshop, the better the Model - just look at DickyD:'( :'( :'(

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: andi4x4 on April 19, 2008, 10:05:10 pm
 Lol,

 The only reason mine is tidy is because I wouldn never find the door out ! It is actually a bit messier in that pic than I would normally have it.

As for the smaller the room, thebetter the modeller - I think I had better move into the cupboard under the stairs then !  {-) {-) {-)

Regards

Andi

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 19, 2008, 10:13:25 pm
Lol,

As for the smaller the room, the better the modeller - I think I had better move into the cupboard under the stairs then !  {-) {-) {-)

Regards

Andi


Andi, there is one advantage to a large shed, whenever I have visitors the model is usually the last thing they see and in some cases, NOT at all. O0 O0 O0

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: tigertiger on April 20, 2008, 03:51:17 pm
 Topic split and moved

As much as I also love the Quatro, I have created a new thread Audi Quatro and Other Cars and moved this discussion to other hobbies and interests

Now back to HMS Brave Borderer.

Thanks
TT
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 21, 2008, 12:27:57 pm
After sanding all weekend, I have started on the Chine Line repair where I inadvertently put a radius after some vigorous sanding. Still applying more P38 than I really need, but "what the heck".

Photo shows one side completed - sort of :-\

martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 21, 2008, 12:38:10 pm
To be honest, its actually better to put on too much body filler as I found it far easier to gain correct shape and fair in.
Quite pleased with filler repair on Chine Line  :) :)- Line now has a definite edge and faired in well near the bow.

Finally got it right :) :) :)


Martin doon under O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: andi4x4 on April 22, 2008, 12:04:50 am
Topic split and moved

As much as I also love the Quatro, I have created a new thread Audi Quatro and Other Cars and moved this discussion to other hobbies and interests

Now back to HMS Brave Borderer.

Thanks
TT


 Thanks Tiger,

 I have followed up with it on the new location !

Regards

Andi
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: andi4x4 on April 22, 2008, 12:06:54 am
To be honest, its actually better to put on too much body filler as I found it far easier to gain correct shape and fair in.
Quite pleased with filler repair on Chine Line  :) :)- Line now has a definite edge and faired in well near the bow.

Finally got it right :) :) :)


Martin doon under O0

Looks good Martin !  I have a fibreglass hull on mine, and I must admitt that the chines are not as sharp as I would like - I may consider doing this with my GRP one.

Regards

Andi

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 28, 2008, 01:48:36 pm
Now that the Chine Line is correct and hull sanded, I have applied two coats of pure resin.

After the pong dissipated, I have placed the hull over the bath tub (won't fit in) to allow the resin to fully cure for the rest of the week. Next weekend if all goes well, will start final sanding before priming hull :) :)

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 08, 2008, 01:00:06 pm
Been a while since I last posted but this is a SLOW build.

After the two coats of resin applied and dried in the bathroom for a whole week, I started sanding again using 80 Grit Emery Paper followed by 120 Grit. This was followed up with 180 wet and dry on a wetted hull and gradually worked my way down to 600 Wet and Dry. Believe me, this took a few weekends to achieve before I was happy with the result.

In trying to work out motors, ESC's, batteries etc - FLJ has suggested a fit using his P94 setup but I keep changing my mind re motors - it appears I cannot choose a motor to start with..I gave up in total confusion and decided to leave this part till I have installed the prop shafts and rudders.

Prop Shafts - I must give a big thankyou to Bluebird in working out the correct location for shafts and rudders. I need prop shafts at least 15 - 16 inches long and am currently having them manufactured by Float-A-Boat here in Oz.

Spent all day Saturday in working out prop shaft locations and drilling hole for Center Prop Shaft. Now any decent modeler would have built the slot in the keel during build but I was unsure of it's exact location. Luckily, I had some long shank drill bits but I still took my time and re-measured many times before commencing.

After the centre prop, I also drilled and filed the outboard prop locations including holes for rudders. Had to slightly modify one of the internal formers to allow clearance for shafts.
I then made up a jig to hold props in correct position/alignment - not quite right yet as the starboard shaft needs to be lowered a little more.

If you look at the inside shot for propshafts and rudders, you will see that I need to add extra material at hull entry point to beef up these areas, probably next weekend...

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 08, 2008, 01:02:32 pm
Forgot the inside hull shot..

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on June 08, 2008, 02:13:08 pm
Hi ya there my mate Martin Doon under

Speed building causes many mistakes - so, as you are doing, take your time.   The build is looking very good at this moment and as far as re-enforcing around your propeller and rudder shafts you have two options; around the rudder posts you could put plywood of approximately 1/8 inch thick and about 1 inch x 1 inch square epoxied into the hull - and this would spread the load.  The same with your two outer prop shafts.   But, we are not building a super-duper light weight extremely thin hull here; and we are not going to apply vast amounts of stress to the propeller shafts or rudders, through using high performance motors.   So, if you wanted, you could bond the prop shafts and rudder tubes in with car body filler; feathering the edges of the body filler out, along the inside of your hull.   This may be an easier option;

the other thought I have, in your photographs are these prop shafts and prop tubes you are going to use on your final build?   If so, dont forget to cut them to length required before you bond them in  O0

John
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 09, 2008, 01:16:29 am
John, Thanks for that mate.

I think I feel more comfortable in placing ply around rudders and prop shafts for reinforcement seeing that their are only two layers of 0.6mm ply.
The prop tubes in the photo are only their for fitment indications ie, see where the prop tubes end up. The center shaft is only 14 inches long and will receive longer shafts later this week.
My only concern is that the center prop shaft is only about 1/2 inch above keel. I will need to place some ply in the hull to mount the motors (and probably on aluminium brackets) and would like to have clearance from the hull for air flow and water cooling coils.

The motors I am currently looking at are the Graupner 700BB Turbo's (7.2 - 19.2v) and MFA 850's which will be powered by a Gel Cell.
I am also investigating the "Darke Horse" Speed 700, 3:1 Ratio Planetary Marine Motors (high voltage, low current drain). Apparently, these motors are suited to this type of model and can operate from 6V to 28V using up to 20 Nimh Cells.

Electronics, will probably use ACTion's P94 setup but if this turns out unsuitable, the unit will be ideal for my 2 shaft Freemantle Class Patrol Boat (arriving shortly)..

I think I will be a lot happier to have the motors in hand so I can determine final length and placement of prop shafts before I set them in permanently...

John and forum members, please feel free to comment - it's all helpful and appreciated O0

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on June 09, 2008, 02:00:51 am
Martin, that looks great. O0 Now I'm back home, I'll soon be getting back in my shed and building again. I had intentions of building a Grand Banks cruiser, followed by an Armidale Class patrol boat, but arrived back with a Billing Nordkap kit. As I have not tried plank on frame construction before, I thought that this kit may be a good introduction to the technique. I guess I'll just have to live a couple of years longer to fit the others in  {-)
I look forward to more pictures of your Brave Borderer build.
Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: banjo on June 09, 2008, 03:19:17 am
 O0
Cooling Coils.....
If you are a bit pushed for space there are cooling gizmo's that sit, saddle like, on the top and sides of the motor.  I got a couple for my Fire/Crash Boat.
They are in the catalogue at ASTEC.

Its a great boat you got building there...

 :)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: banjo on June 09, 2008, 04:24:54 am
 :)

Cooling Jacket at :- http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/products-big.php?gref=g3326.jpg
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 10, 2008, 12:17:45 pm
:)

Cooling Jacket at :- http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/products-big.php?gref=g3326.jpg

Banjo, thanks for the info, clever little units. Hopefully by Friday I will receive my prop shafts in the mail. I will sit them into position and see what clearance I have with that center shaft - may have to sit the center motor a little further back than the outer shafts.

On the weekend I hope to start making the "P" Brackets. Currently, I have a friend drilling the 8mm holes in the 13mm shaft housing - much easier and accurate on a lathe. The upright part of the bracket will be made from 3mm brass flat bar - this is going to be a pain in the butt. I have a steel cut-off saw - I hope I can use that - better than a Hack-Saw. :embarrassed:

Peter, glad to see you finally made it home and ONLY one kit?? Plank on Frame - I had a lot of fun with this one, but alas, it is and will be a slow build.. Ho Hum

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 27, 2008, 11:06:26 am
Hi All,

Back for a quick update on a slow build.

Longer prop tubes arrived but alas, center shaft still too short. I have now ordered 1 shaft with a tube length of 520mm as I figure that I can always make it shorter.
Motors - finally decided on the "Darke Horse" Speed 700, 3:1 Ratio Planetary Extra High Performance Low Inertia Marine Units (phew, that was a mouth full) and they arrived today with cooling jackets fitted. Also included a great set of instructions, heavy duty couplers, water pickup tubes and other bits and pieces. These motors have a voltage range of 6V - 28 V and I intend to run on 24V.

I have a CD of a 1:24 Perkasa with 2 of these motors and the boat was literally flying.

"P" Brackets. Managed to cut these out of 3mm Brass flat and have used CA glue to temporarily hold together for shaft alignment etc. When I am finally happy with shaft locations, motor mount setup and alignment, will have them silver soldered.

The pictures below show the tubes, props and "P" Brackets assemblies including the center motor aligned with a Brass tube cut to the length of 520mm just to see if I have enough clearance. The P & S motors will be set forward of the center motor

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on June 28, 2008, 12:21:54 pm
G'day Martin

The build is coming along fine  O0  my apologies Sir, for getting the length of the centre shaft wrong - but, it is very difficult to see a ruler from 13000 miles or so away, even though I do admit to having the plans in front of me  :embarrassed: as a thought though - ALL IS NOT LOST - instead of purchasing a longer centre shaft; you could put an intermediate shaft in - where you have a solid coupling between your propeller shaft and the intermediate shaft - following by a thrust bearing mounted on a bulk head.  Then, on the end of that, where the intermediate shaft comes through the bearing - you could then have your muff coupling connected to your motor.  The length of the intermediate shaft would equal the length you require to move the motor back to give you the correct height and angle.

The other thing I would add, as an alternative, to the way you are building your 'P' brackets - where you have your baseplate fixed to the upright on the 'P' bracket you could dispense with this for the time being and manufacture the 'P' bracket say 3/4 inch longer so therefore the upright would have to go through the bottom of the hull in a pre-cut slot.   Leave this unglued until you have set your prop shafts into the hull at the correct angle - then epoxy on the inside - the 'P' bracket upright.  This will give a lot more strength & a lot more load displacement.   When the epoxies have all set, you could then cut a slot in your base plate and reposition this over the upright and the 'P' bracket and the remaining bit of the slot as visible could be 'filled in' with car body filler to camouflage the slot.

The third thing I note is that you are not cutting short your propeller tubes.  On the original vessel; the propeller tube only protruded from the hull 6 - 7 inches so in scale this would be about 1/2 inch.  Then the propeller shaft itself runs unprotected and open to the environment until it reaches the 'P' bracket where it goes through a set of bearings and then to your propeller.

Food for thought.

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 28, 2008, 12:55:03 pm
G'day Martin

The build is coming along fine  O0  my apologies Sir, for getting the length of the centre shaft wrong - but, it is very difficult to see a ruler from 13000 miles or so away, even though I do admit to having the plans in front of me  :embarrassed: as a thought though - ALL IS NOT LOST - instead



The third thing I note is that you are not cutting short your propeller tubes.  On the original vessel; the propeller tube only protruded from the hull 6 - 7 inches so in scale this would be about 1/2 inch.  Then the propeller shaft itself runs unprotected and open to the environment until it reaches the 'P' bracket where it goes through a set of bearings and then to your propeller.

Food for thought.

aye
john e
bluebird

No need to apologise John, even I didn't get it right. Only last night have ordered a much longer center shaft (this will be the third one). Also have been advised by the motor supplier that the shaft itself should be 5mm, then machined down to take 4mm prop.

These motors I am installing may load up the shaft at 24v and with the center shaft being so long - need to go heavier. I did think about intermediate shafts but cannot even get a single shaft the correct length. No worries about all the shafts as I am sure they will come in handy some day.

Your third point, can I please have a sketch - I'm a bit THICK tonight :D :D :D

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 28, 2008, 01:13:31 pm
John, One other thing I left out.

The photo showing the shafts protruding through the hull (inside). These are only tubes and not the proper shaft tubes. I have been using these off-cuts for alignment purposes only and to see where and how much clearance I had from the keel.

Keep up the observations and comments as you may see something that I missed or did not take into consideration. ???

All observations and comments greatly received O0

Martin doon under ;)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on June 28, 2008, 01:18:57 pm
G'day Martin
 O0 O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 28, 2008, 01:40:05 pm
How I love your sketches ;) ;)

Now I see what you are saying. Cut the tubes down so they only protude 1/2" then an exposed shaft to the "P" Bracket...Hmmm

This is going to be a problem - my head hurts >>:-( >>:-(


Martin in need of medication
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on June 28, 2008, 02:13:48 pm
Hi ya there Martin

well If you have a look at the pictures that you sent to me, you will see how the shaft is exposed and how the 'P' bracket is made up.   Will try to post a couple of photographs to show what I mean  O0 O0

aye
john
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on June 28, 2008, 02:19:57 pm
and some more pics....  O0 O0 O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 28, 2008, 11:16:48 pm
Hi John,

Initially your thoughts  freaked me out, but after much procrastinating, have an idea on how to modify "P" brackets.
I will have some new bearings made up (probably can use bearings from surplus shafts) with a short sleeve and insert into existing "P" bracket housing. I will then remove the flat plate and make up a new vertical section 3/4" longer as per your suggestion..

I gave it a lot of thought last night and agree with you in that the "P" bracket protruding through the hull will provide a lot more strength and load displacement. I will also fit another bearing inside between hull entry and motor coupling - will probably have to make a ply support somewhere inside with the bearing installed.

I will make up a sample "P" Bracket today with bearings etc and post more pic's for your perusal..

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 29, 2008, 11:51:30 am
Well, got stuck into it today to make up some new "P" Brackets - lucky I have plenty of brass about.

But first, the picture below explains the process in how "Prototype 1" brackets where made and assembled. Note, the Brackets were CA glued together for trial purposes only.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on June 29, 2008, 12:05:14 pm
Can you get hold of any tufnol, if you can fit some for bearings on the P brackets you will not have any problem lubricating them as brass can wear quick when not lubricated. just a thought


http://www.tufnol-rod.co.uk/


Hs93
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 29, 2008, 12:20:53 pm
The brass plate is 3mm thick whilst the bearing housing being 13mm diameter with an 8mm hole bored through on a friend's lathe.
"Prototype 2" brackets were made as per Bluebird's suggestion. The bottom plate was removed and a longer vertical section made up to protrude  through slots in hull about 15 - 20mm.
I found that a Dremel tool was ideal for cutting the Brass section - best purchase ever.

The bearing housing (as I had a few spares made), had the 8mm hole to allow shaft tube clearance and due to shaft only rotating in housing - bearings need to be fitted. I removed the bearings from surplus prop shafts and cut a small section of 8mm tube to fit between the bearings. This assembly was then placed into the housing with shaft and prop installed.
The idea now being that the prop tube will protrude the bottom of the hull by about 15mm and shaft supported at this point by a bearing.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 29, 2008, 12:33:40 pm
Can you get hold of any tufnol, if you can fit some for bearings on the P brackets you will not have any problem lubricating them as brass can wear quick when not lubricated. just a thought


http://www.tufnol-rod.co.uk/


Hs93

Thanks on your input HS93 - Personally, I am not familiar with Tufnol and thanks for the link - will remember this stuff.

I discovered a small problem when using the existing bearings in that the bearing closest to the hull, had a tendency to work its way out of the housing. I am now having new bearings made up (oil impregnated Phosphor Bronze) with a flange. The new bearings will fit into the housing quite snuggly (may use Loctite) and butt up against the end of housing - This should stop bearing from working its way out.

Will see how this works out in the next couple of weeks.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on June 29, 2008, 12:48:56 pm
I have just posted a picture of yours with a mod, add a collar to stop the thrust from the props pushing on the skegs, your mate with the lath will prob knock then up in 2 min just a grub screw to hold them , in fact some model shops sell collars that you may be able to drill out   the collar is in red. it help the motors as well as they are not getting any end load.

Hs93
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 29, 2008, 12:53:36 pm
I have just posted a picture of yours with a mod, add a collar to stop the thrust from the props pushing on the skegs, your mate with the lath will prob knock then up in 2 min just a grub screw to hold them , in fact some model shops sell collars that you may be able to drill out   the collar is in red. it help the motors as well as they are not getting any end load.

Hs93

Thankyou again Sir. What a simple fix.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on June 29, 2008, 01:04:51 pm
well hello there G'Day Martin and Hi there Peter - long time no speak -

Spoke to our friend last night Peter (Martin (Seaspray) ) anyway this is deviating ... just as a thought the 'P' brackets are meant to take the thrust of the propeller.  The reason for this is, if there is any great distance between the 'P' brackets and the stern tube; if the 'P' bracket does not take the thrust and the end of the stern tube takes the thrust as in where the collar is fitted - the propeller shaft will bow and buckle not to meantion vibrate.   So, it is therefore, best to keep the thrust of the propeller onto the backface of the 'P' bracket - and that is why I suggest we take the vertical leg into the hull - araldite (epoxy) it - into the inside of the hull to spread the load.

If you have a look at the photographs you will see there is no thrust bearing on the outside of the stern tubes.

The other thing Martin doon under - remember the bearing and housing on your 'P' bracket is to be shaped similar to a 'bullet' for the sake of water flow and to prevent cavitation.

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 29, 2008, 01:26:14 pm
well hello there G'Day Martin and Hi there Peter - long time no speak -

Spoke to our friend last night Peter (Martin (Seaspray) ) anyway this is deviating ... just as a thought the 'P' brackets are meant to take the thrust of the propeller.  The reason for this is, if there is any great distance between the 'P' brackets and the stern tube; if the 'P' bracket does not take the thrust and the end of the stern tube takes the thrust as in where the collar is fitted - the propeller shaft will bow and buckle not to meantion vibrate.   So, it is therefore, best to keep the thrust of the propeller onto the backface of the 'P' bracket - and that is why I suggest we take the vertical leg into the hull - araldite (epoxy) it - into the inside of the hull to spread the load.

If you have a look at the photographs you will see there is no thrust bearing on the outside of the stern tubes.

The other thing Martin doon under - remember the bearing and housing on your 'P' bracket is to be shaped similar to a 'bullet' for the sake of water flow and to prevent cavitation.

aye
john e
bluebird

G'Day there matey,
Good to see that I woke you up {-) {-) {-) {-)

How is Martin ;) (send a pm about Martin)

When I get the correct setup for the "P" Brackets and Sliver Soldered, then I will shape the leading and trailling edges as per the photograph.
The bearing that worked its way loose was the one at the "P" bracket housing (opposite end to prop). This bearing will need to be made with a flange and be of a fairly tight fit

Hope that makes sense.

aye Martin doon under

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 16, 2008, 12:19:43 pm
Well, finally got "P" Brackets silver soldered, edges filed down like a bullet and all cleaned up. Slots made into hull to fit "P" brackets and shafts and tubes temporally fitted to allow correct aligned of brackets before epoxying into place.

3mm ply added to inside of hull for extra strength to accommodate P & S "P" brackets and shaft tubes

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 16, 2008, 12:43:19 pm
After the epoxy had set, I then cut in half the original "P" bracket base plates and glued either side of the "P" brackets as in the full scale boat.

Thanks to the input of Bluebird and HS93:-
If you look on the hull, you can see the new "P" bracket bearings I had made up with a flange. These will be installed into the "P" brackets with a small dab of Loctite to allow removal should and when the bearings wear. This setup will also remove the need to place a collet on the shaft behind the bearing.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 16, 2008, 12:53:12 pm
Now that the shaft tubes will only be protruding the hull by about 1/2 inch, the P & S tubes will need to be braced inside the hull. On one of the formers I added a 3mm brace either side of the formers to support the shaft tubes..

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 16, 2008, 01:09:26 pm
My new Center shaft finally arrived (520mm long) at last and now can install into the hull. I placed the tube into the hull and measured the height it needed to be above keel for motor fitment and alignment before cutting off excess tube. Bearing fitted into tube and shaft also fitted..

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 16, 2008, 01:21:09 pm
With the center shaft being so long, I placed an 8mm wedge beneath the shaft, between where the tube enters the hull and the former. I then very lightly epoxied the tube to this support. The P & S tubes were fitted in a similar fashion except they rested  on the ply braces I fitted earlier.

Once I was happy with the locations and alignment of the shaft tubes, I then used P38 around the tubes at the hull and between the braces inside the hull - I'll use the Dremel and clean up at a later stage.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 16, 2008, 01:32:23 pm
Once the P38 had fully cured, I checked again that the motors would fit correctly with a ply base plate when fitted. As you may have noticed, the center motor will be set further towards the bow than the P & S motors. This was due to the acute angle of the center shaft and also the close proximity to outboard motors. The shafts are 88mm between centers and the motors are quite large with mounting brackets and cooling coils fitted.

I then turned over the hull and used P38 on the tubes and "P" brackets...

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Proteus on July 16, 2008, 01:38:38 pm
Are you fixing the bearings as in picture with the bush flange forward   BB P10110126 ?

 Bluebird

 I think martin said in a post that the shafts are 5mm turned down to 4mm how will a 5mm shaft  " bow and buckle not to meantion vibrate".    the likes of  http://www.gsitek-props.co.uk/products.asp?cat=19   supplied  thrust collars with my shafts , and so did his predecessor.

Proteus
 
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 16, 2008, 01:42:27 pm
Once the P38 had fully set, I began to file and sand away excess P38 filler. In my over enthusiasm to see this task completed, I managed to put in some deep scratches into the hull.

Will keep flairing in P38 and sand off to a smooth finish but in the meantime will ponder whether to use P38 or one coat of resin to fill scratches.. Ho Hum >:(

Martin du.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on July 16, 2008, 01:48:49 pm
[ ponder whether to use P38 or one coat of resin to fill scratches.. Ho Hum ]

P38  O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on July 16, 2008, 02:00:07 pm
Coming along nicely Martin itchy doon under  O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 16, 2008, 02:03:00 pm
Are you fixing the bearings as in picture with the bush flange forward   BB P10110126 ?

 Bluebird

 I think martin said in a post that the shafts are 5mm turned down to 4mm how will a 5mm shaft  " bow and buckle not to meantion vibrate".    the likes of  http://www.gsitek-props.co.uk/products.asp?cat=19   supplied  thrust collars with my shafts , and so did his predecessor.

Proteus
 


Proteus,
The flanged bearings will be fitted as per the photo.

As for the shafts, due to tubes being cut down to protrude only 1/2 inch from hull, it was decided that a 5mm shaft was unnecessary since a bearing would be fitted at the end of the tube. The other problem was that I made everything to suit an 8mm shaft tube and that with a 5mm shaft, would make the bearings very thin indeed. (something I did not think about earlier).

By the way, I will be using the G-Sitek running set on my Type 22 build. With Brave Borderer at 1:16th scale - everything has to be made to suit.
But thanks for your comments and please make more as you see fit - it all helps this little Black Duck

John, thanks for that, P38 it is - I always need somebody to make up my mind for me or at least that's what swmbo reckons ::) ::)

Dicky, I think you will complete at least 5 models before I finish this one {-) {-)

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 18, 2008, 11:31:56 pm
I NEED YOUR INPUT O0

Shortly I will be starting construction of the Transom Shelf and the adjustable Transom Flap. I know how to build the Transom flap and the setup for the hinge mechanism and fixing to the transom, but have run into a small problem.

There are two arms that come up from the flap and enter the transom just below the shelf at the stern then somehow connected to a servo. The transom Flap needs only to be made adjustable by a maximum of 5 degrees up/down.

Do any members have ideas on the mechanism/linkages to the servo in order to achieve the desired result, keeping in mind that the rudder linkages are in the same area.

Sketches of your ideas would be most appreciated as I can be a bit thick sometimes ::)

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on July 19, 2008, 12:20:12 pm
good morning Martin - it is about time you sent us some sunshine from Australia there my mate - I am sure your winter sun is much better than our summer sun  O0 O0 ;D

Here is a scribble of one way you can do your transom flap.   If you have a look part B is a brass tube which goes through your transom at an angle - obviously there are 2 of these - one either side of your centre rudder post.  Through the centre of these brass tubes you have your push rod, something like 1/16 stainless steel or 1/16 brass rod - thread at both ends.  One end you have the linkage coupling to your flap - and, the other end is a linkage coupling which fits into item C .   Item C has a slot cut into it.  The length of this slot will be trial and error  :o  the arm C is securely fixed to a shaft which runs transversely across the back of the transom and is fixed to supports which are located on the transom.    Just off centre there is 2nd cam  D  this in turn is connected through a linkage rod to a servo.     Now, where the linkage rod connects to the servo; the closer the rod is to the centre of the servo horn - the less movement you will get.  This is turn will give you less transom flap movement.

Now connect the servo to a 'Y' lead from your centre speed controller so therefore as you accelerate the motor; the servo in turn operates at the same ratio as your speed controller.  Therefore gradually pushing the flap down at the higher speed.  Food for thought, plenty for you to practice with  :o

Just one idea of many no doubt Martin doon under there.

Aye
John e
bluebird
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 19, 2008, 03:27:11 pm
John,

What an absolutely brilliant idea ;) :) O0 O0  Well explained and a great drawing.

. I like the way in which you have the arms entering the transom - just like the full scale boat. Your linkages etc are similar to the one's I use on my RC gliders which will simplify the setup.

Good idea connecting servo via a "Y" lead - I did not think of that O0

Thanks again John in taking the time and producing a great sketch.

Martin where it's still sunny in the middle of winter >>:-( where's the rain
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on July 19, 2008, 11:57:37 pm
Winter Martin??? :o  It was 25 degrees Celsius here last week, although it's been down to single figures overnight.

Your build seems to be coming along nicely, and the gents on the forum are being very helpful - as always.

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 10:08:57 am
Time for an update.

Finally got some paint and sprayed the hull with primer/filler grey - now it starting to look like a boat.

Next step was to make up the framework/supports for the engine mounts. In this area I decided to use 8mm plywood scraps and angled the supports to aid motor and shaft alignment. After all three supports were constructed, I needed to brush on one good coat of resin in the rear section of the hull as this would be difficult to do once the motor base plates were epoxied to the supports.

Martin no longer itchin doon under :)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 10:27:59 am
Now the fun begins.

I decided on leaving the motor base plates for now as they also need to be coated with resin before being epoxied into place.
It was time to think about the Transom Flap construction and attachment to hull. My end conclusion was to build as close as possible to original setup as this was relatively easy to do (refer to earlier photo/post showing props and shafts).

The flap was constructed of all plywood using 3mm ply for the main base/sides and 1.5mm ply for webbing etc. As this flap will take some beating, I added small amounts of epoxy to all joints. A length of 3mm brass tubing was epoxied into place and after epoxy had set, the tubing was cut and filed to allow fitment of 4 hinges. The hinges were made from 2mm brass flat cut out using a Dremel tool and filed to correct profile. A 3mm hole was then drilled into each hinge to allow a 3mm solid brass rod to pass through them.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 10:39:55 am
One more pic showing hinges and rod fitted.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 11:59:41 am
Next step was to manufacture the 2 linkage couplings that are fitted to the transom flap as per Bluebird's drawing in post #96 (item "A").
For this I decided to use a "T" section of Aluminium as I could not find anything suitable in Brass. Here I had cut off 2 sections 8mm wide and trimmed down to size. I then drilled a small hole in each for the linkage to move freely and epoxied into place.

Martin du :)


Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 12:20:35 pm
With the transom flap assembly complete, it was time to mount and set into the transom.
As per the original setup, I needed to fit an angle piece of material at the base of the hull and against the transom. Here I used a length of 1.4mm aluminium angle of which the bottom side had to be narrowed down - to allow transom flap movement.

I then marked and drilled 4 slots into the transom for the flap hinges then filed to allow hinges to pass through at a 45 degree angle. The Aluminium angle also had to have 4 slots filed for the hinges and then epoxied into place.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 12:29:54 pm
Once I was happy with the setup, the transom flap hinges were fed through the transom and a small amount of epoxy used to hold into place.
With the transom flap removed I then placed P38 around the hinges which I made to protrude the transom by 10mm. When the P38 had set, I refitted the flap and checked for operational integrity (aviation lingo) O0

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 12:40:29 pm
The last job to do with the transom flap was to fit another length of Aluminium angle above the flap. The angle also needed 4 slots filed to allow for the hinges to pass through. After this had been achieved, the angle was fitted into place and flap checked for free up and down movement before being epoxied into place.
The transom flap was reinstalled and found that the flap could move 15 degrees up and 15 degrees down without interference - ample as I only require about 5 degrees either way. O0 O0 O0

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 01:20:12 pm
Martin No.1 mentioned a valid point - I need to now and again add something into the photo's to show relative scale - good point O0

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 01:29:48 pm
Hope the One Pound Note is still valid - got it in the early 70's.

Before I start with the linkages through the transom, I thought that I may start on the transom shelf and when finished and glued into place, then start on linkages.

The shelf and flap epoxy joins will be cleaned up with Dremel tool including wet and dry. before painting which I hope to do this weekend.

Picture of transom shelf construction (early stage) with references added ;) ;)

Martin doon under and that's it for tonight - watch this space ::)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on August 05, 2008, 01:39:50 pm
Hi ya Martin doon under  :D

The One Pound Note UK sterling is not legal tender anymore  ???  We now have One Pound coins to replace the One Pound Note -  O0

Can I make a comment on your build my mate?    ONE HELL OF A BUILD THIS IS TURNING OUT TO BE MY MATE  O0 O0  a secret craftsman that is you!!!!

aye john e

bluebirdy
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 05, 2008, 01:48:29 pm
...a pound note..... ah, those were the days....

I remember with my first pond note..... I bought a house, a car and put 8 bob in the Bank of England.....  ::)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 01:49:26 pm
Hi ya Martin doon under  :D

The One Pound Note UK sterling is not legal tender anymore  ???  We now have One Pound coins to replace the One Pound Note -  O0

Can I make a comment on your build my mate?    ONE HELL OF A BUILD THIS IS TURNING OUT TO BE MY MATE  O0 O0  a secret craftsman that is you!!!!

aye john e

bluebirdy

Rats !!!!  I've got a whole bunch of those - only good for wallpaper I suppose >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(. How can I get hold of a One Pound Coin? How big is it?? ???

Glad to hear the build meets with your approval O0 Hope to make a start on linkages and servo mounts this weekend as per your drawing..

Thanks again John - much appreciated.

Martin the happy doon under :) :)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 05, 2008, 02:03:41 pm
Use the dollar and/or the pound note..... we'll enjoy the build and reminisce at the same time!
What motors will you be using?
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 05, 2008, 02:26:56 pm
Use the dollar and/or the pound note..... we'll enjoy the build and reminisce at the same time!
What motors will you be using?


Hi Martin - Glad to see that the note meets with your approval.

The motors will be 3 (now this is a mouth full) Darke Horse Speed 700, 3:1 Ratio Planetary extra High Performance Low Inertia Marine power units running on 20 cells each ( that's a lot of batteries) about 24Volts, running time 40 minutes minimum at medium to high revs. ::) ::) ::)

On the weekend, I'll sit the 3 motors in place with the One Pound Note for reference. O0

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Bradley on August 05, 2008, 02:56:51 pm
Just a little aside - I think that one pound notes are, probably now, collectors' items so treat it gently Martin du.  :)  Like the build - very good, very interesting  O0.
Derek.   :police:
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: GaryM on August 05, 2008, 03:08:45 pm
Hi Martin DU
Just spent a very enjoyable hour and a half reading through your build, it's fantastic, it really is. :)
I especially like the scale size.

regards
Gary :)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 05, 2008, 11:48:07 pm
Hi Martin 13,

The British 1 pound coin is roughly the diameter of our $2 coin, but thicker, and the same colour.

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 06, 2008, 12:27:52 pm
Are you fixing the bearings as in picture with the bush flange forward   BB P10110126 ?

Proteus
 


Proteus,

The gentleman that supplied me the motors plus the flanged bushes contacted me today after viewing the build and your comments.

You are correct O0        I'm wrong >>:-(

The flanged bush must be fitted the other way around - that is, the flange must be behind the prop..

Thanks for your keen eye and comments - most appreciated

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 06, 2008, 12:40:30 pm
Hi Martin DU
Just spent a very enjoyable hour and a half reading through your build, it's fantastic, it really is. :)
I especially like the scale size.

regards
Gary :)

GaryM,

Glad to hear that you are enjoying the build. Don't know if anybody has built a 6 foot (1800mm) model of BB before - everything has to be scratch built. Hope I can keep you entertained in the future and thanks for your kind comments.

Derek,
Thanks for the comments and hope that you keep watching this space. I'll look after the rest of the One Pound Notes.

Peter,
Must send you a PM and thanks for info. If I visit the money exchange booth at the airport, do you reckon I can get a One Pound Coin??. Also, do they have tinnies in the UK, possibly the same size as our XXXX or VB??? - Liquid Reference Material and throat lubrication {-) {-) {-)

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 07, 2008, 08:14:47 am
Yes Martin, they do have tinnies in the UK. They're quite civilised over there actually,  :) their tinnies are bigger than ours, and you can get XXXX, Fosters or just about any brand of beer you want, in the liquor aisles of the supermarkets. Great idea  O0
Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: boatmadman on August 07, 2008, 10:01:30 am
We even have proper warm beer 'over here'  O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 08, 2008, 11:53:08 pm
We even have proper warm beer 'over here'  O0

You certainly do boatmadman, and furthermore, I like British beer - in fact, I like just about ANY beer  {-) {-)

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 10, 2008, 12:39:46 pm
Use the dollar and/or the pound note..... we'll enjoy the build and reminisce at the same time!
What motors will you be using?


Martin No.1 To answer your question re motors - here are some photo's with motors temporarily installed for your perusal.... ;)

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 10, 2008, 01:11:22 pm
Continued on with building the Transom Shelf - lots a small bits of wood but finally got it right.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 10, 2008, 01:16:50 pm
CA glue tends to leave stains on timber but with a bit of rubbing down with wet and dry - looking good.
Now with a coat of primer on the shelf before carefully using epoxy to glue into place.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 10, 2008, 01:23:07 pm
With the Transom Shelf firmly affixed to the transom, it's now time to start thinking about linkages connected to Transom flap through transom - work begins using Bluebird's method as posted earlier.... ;) O0

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on August 10, 2008, 03:19:20 pm
Hey Martin

the boat is looking great -  O0

aye
john
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on August 10, 2008, 03:34:43 pm
Grieves me to agree with John but on this occasion he is right Martin. It doesn't often happen.  {-)

It's looking great. Are you sure its the right way up seeing as you is doon under ?  :-\
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 18, 2008, 09:57:17 am

It's looking great. Are you sure its the right way up seeing as you is doon under ?  :-\

Not sure Dicky :-\ Been doon under for so long - its' a change to turn the hull over {-) {-)

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 18, 2008, 11:36:50 am
After measuring and marking out, I drilled the 2 holes into the transom below the shelf to fit the brass tubes for the transom flap control rods. The Brass tubes were then epoxied into place and after set, P38 added for extra strength. The control rods were made with clevises and connected to flap assembly. The control mechanism for inside the hull was also made up and can be seen on mate below the hull.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 19, 2008, 11:49:24 am
After installing the control rods through the brass tubes and connecting up to the transom flap, I had a few problems. Initially the brass tubes extended the hull by about 35mm (1, 1/2 inches). The Flap was designed to move a maximum of 15 degrees up or down but noticed that now and again, one rod was sticking in the tube. At this point, I reduced the length of the brass tube to extend the hull by 5mm or 1/2 inch and operated much better.

I was still unhappy with the setup - the clearance between the tube and rod was quite small and could see that if any muck got caught on the rod, the rod may jam. Also I did not like the rod thread extending above the clevis at the transom flap (see previous photo's) - did not look good.

So, I pulled the whole lot out and started again. >>:-( >>:-(

This time I installed brass tubes with ample clearance for the rods to pass through and also made up new control rods and Clevises.

I'm a Happy Chappy now - much better;D ;D ;D O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 19, 2008, 12:01:12 pm
Next step was to make up 2 brass mounting brackets for the control mechanism inside the hull - the photo is self explanatory combined with Bluebird's early drawing for the setup - only needs a servo and control arm to be installed, but need to setup rudder control arms to see what space I have and where to place servos.
I also need to install motor water cooling pickup's - forgot about these - thanks Bluebird. O0

Martin no longer itchin doon under {-) {-)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 19, 2008, 12:04:46 pm
And one more photo

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on August 19, 2008, 12:30:02 pm
Good evening |Martin doon there - cos it's night time there isnt it my mate....by you are doing well on this build.

Can I make 2 comments Sir;

Looking at the photograph showing your propellers and P brackets side view; I noticed that the bushes on the P brackets - leading edge or the face that is going to face the flow of the water when moving forward is still square - should this be shaped similar to a bullet to ease flow through the water?

2nd - looking at the linkage support inside the hull where you have the 2 brass supports P38 stuck to the transom - can we not think of some form of plywood shelf - this would support these pieces of brass rather than the P38 as when the P38 really goes off hard.....it may become a bit brittle and if your model takes a bump on the flap - it may snap these off....food for thought my mate.....but hey its definitely looking GOOD!!!

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on August 19, 2008, 12:43:28 pm
Thats coming on well Itchy, very impressive.

That John doesn't miss much does he ?  ::)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on August 19, 2008, 12:44:40 pm
No, Scratchy he doesnt  ;D {-) {-) {-)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 19, 2008, 01:00:29 pm
Good evening |Martin doon there - cos it's night time there isnt it my mate....by you are doing well on this build.

Can I make 2 comments Sir;

Looking at the photograph showing your propellers and P brackets side view; I noticed that the bushes on the P brackets - leading edge or the face that is going to face the flow of the water when moving forward is still square - should this be shaped similar to a bullet to ease flow through the water?

2nd - looking at the linkage support inside the hull where you have the 2 brass supports P38 stuck to the transom - can we not think of some form of plywood shelf - this would support these pieces of brass rather than the P38 as when the P38 really goes off hard.....it may become a bit brittle and if your model takes a bump on the flap - it may snap these off....food for thought my mate.....but hey its definitely looking GOOD!!!

aye
john e
bluebird

G'Day John,

It's 9:30pm to be exact and after a rotten day at work, my arms are ready to drop off - too old for this sh#t.

Comment 1. The P Brackets have been filed down to more like a bullet as you once suggested that I should do. See the area where the paint is missing. It's been filed down roughly at a 45 degree angle. Do you think I should decrease the angle (that is, take off more paint) and attempt to flare even more - your thoughts please....On the weekend, I'll see if I can take a couple of photo's from a better angle of the P Brackets.

Comment 2. I have taken a straight on shot of the linkages inside the hull but it looks messy (starting to get proud of my work - on an ego trip). Beneath the 2 Brass supports, I epoxied a length of 6mm square hardwood to aid alignment and support. Firstly, I epoxied in the brass supports with a reasonable filler around them before applying P38. The brass supports fitted into the 8mm transom by about 6mm was then back filled with more epoxy then only a light smear of P38 - This can be seen on the last photo above transom shelf.

Do you believe I require more support to the brass mounts?? Maybe a piece of brass or wood from the Brass support close to pivot point back down at a 45 degree angle and epoxied to the transom.?????

Your thoughts and comments are most appreciated as it will aid me in making a better model :) O0

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 19, 2008, 01:03:42 pm
Thats coming on well Itchy, very impressive.

That John doesn't miss much does he ?  ::)

Thanks Richard - your right again, John doesn't miss much and I'm glad of it.

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 19, 2008, 01:08:05 pm
Hi ya Martin doon under  :D

The One Pound Note UK sterling is not legal tender anymore  ???  We now have One Pound coins to replace the One Pound Note -  O0

aye john e

bluebirdy

Hey John,

You willing to swap a One Pound Note UK sterling for a One Pound coin ::) ::) O0

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 19, 2008, 01:16:23 pm
How was the 'trim tab'(?) operated on the real boat?
Do you have a picture of the full size?
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 20, 2008, 12:09:20 pm
How was the 'trim tab'(?) operated on the real boat?
Do you have a picture of the full size?


Hi Martin No.1

I do have some pictures of the internals plus original drawings of the mechanical layout. The transom flap operational setup is quite complicated as hydraulics are also used. You can imagine the amount of stress on this flap with a boat going in excess of 50 knots.

That being the case, when I built the flap, I was quite generous with epoxy in its construction. I cannot see the flap or hinging mechanism failing (cos I made it so well) but the control mechanism may have to be built stronger - time will tell.

The rudder operational setup will be as the original. This layout suits my requirements for servo mounting etc.

Hope that answers your question.

Bluebird, where is my One Pound Coin :embarrassed:

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on August 20, 2008, 12:22:02 pm
Bluebird, where is my One Pound Coin

its on its way
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 20, 2008, 12:30:16 pm
Bluebird, where is my One Pound Coin

its on its way

Does that mean I have to sent the note now {-) {-) Will do that on Friday O0 Thanks Mate..

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on August 20, 2008, 12:31:21 pm



Bluebird, where is my One Pound Coin :embarrassed:

Martin doon under
He'll have to have the operation first to remove it Martin.
You should have asked for a 50 pence piece, we could have removed that with a spanner {-)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 20, 2008, 12:52:24 pm



Bluebird, where is my One Pound Coin :embarrassed:

Martin doon under
He'll have to have the operation first to remove it Martin.
You should have asked for a 50 pence piece, we could have removed that with a spanner {-)

 {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on August 20, 2008, 05:40:32 pm
That must be the first time that 50 pence has been out of Dicks back pocket since 1970 {-) {-) {-)

aye

john
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on August 20, 2008, 05:46:59 pm
That shows how wrong you are John, that decimal stuff wasn't made till 1971 so you are a year out   :P
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 23, 2008, 01:17:38 pm

Can I make 2 comments Sir;

Looking at the photograph showing your propellers and P brackets side view; I noticed that the bushes on the P brackets - leading edge or the face that is going to face the flow of the water when moving forward is still square - should this be shaped similar to a bullet to ease flow through the water?

2nd - looking at the linkage support inside the hull where you have the 2 brass supports P38 stuck to the transom - can we not think of some form of plywood shelf - this would support these pieces of brass rather than the P38 as when the P38 really goes off hard.....it may become a bit brittle and if your model takes a bump on the flap - it may snap these off....food for thought my mate.....but hey its definitely looking GOOD!!!

aye
john e
bluebird

John, hopefully the next 2 photo's will answer your questions a little better.
Also the bearings for the center and outboard prop near side need to be swapped over.- my mistake.

Do you believe that the P Bracket housing needs further flairing??

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 23, 2008, 01:24:58 pm
OOPS - 3 photo's

Martin du :embarrassed:
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on August 23, 2008, 09:33:17 pm
Hi there Martin doon under

Do I believe that the P Bracket housing needs further faring??  No not at all - it looks pretty good!!  What you may have to do is make a 'dome' shaped cap to fit in the end where you can see the recess (if you know what I mean)  O0

Hey its really looking nice my mate.

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 03, 2008, 09:40:21 pm
Hi all, time to update BB build.

Motor bracket mounts have now been firmly epoxied into place with motors removed. O0

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: bigfella on November 03, 2008, 09:48:57 pm
Hi Martin

Looking really good. How is everything progressing??

Regards David

PS Do you know where in Australia you can buy Hobza Bread? I have not tasted real good bread since Malta. That crust and the soft inside MMMMMMMMMMMM :-)) :-)).
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 03, 2008, 09:58:14 pm
Hmmmm.....Black and White???

Back to the drawing board - must find out why this has happened - back soon

 >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

Hi David,

Been doing domestic stuff for the missus, researching other builds and spending a fortune on ebay - that place is like gambling - highly addictive.
Have been working on BB for some time with many breaks due brain stalling with no input. Currently working on superstructure and progressing slowly. Yeah, been off the forum for a number of weeks and hope to stay off ebay and keep BB build updated.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 03, 2008, 10:00:11 pm

PS Do you know where in Australia you can buy Hobza Bread? I have not tasted real good bread since Malta. That crust and the soft inside MMMMMMMMMMMM :-)) :-)).

I'll ask mum and find out for you as I have no idea

Matin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: bigfella on November 03, 2008, 10:06:52 pm
Martin

Yes I have also been to the Ebay Casino many times. You kind of get fixated with it. But I have found the cure....... Ran out of money {-) {-) {-) {-). I too had a short spell from the forum as my cat went missing for a month and spent most of my time looking for him. We found him two doors down the lady who lives there said that she kept on being woken up by her sensor lights going off for a couple of days but god only knows where he went in the mean time.

Regards David

Added: Thanks for asking your mum.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 03, 2008, 11:32:10 pm
Hmmmm.....Black and White???

Back to the drawing board - must find out why this has happened - back soon

Martin doon under

Got it now. Must remember when saving a resized photo, check that Greyscale box is not ticked - Here goes
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 03, 2008, 11:52:02 pm
Back to the Transom Flap and Rudders.

Made up servo mounts and installed linkages and servo's. All tested okay

Thanks to Bluebird for Transom Flap setup. :-))

Martin doon under O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 03, 2008, 11:56:03 pm
Question to the forum.

I have installed the 3 water pickup's for the 3 motors.

Do I now have 3 water outlets or do I need only 1 and where do I install them {:-{ :embarrassed:

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 04, 2008, 08:01:15 am

I would say 3 inputs - 3 outputs.
 At least that way if you have a problem with one, you only have a problem with one!
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Garabaldy on November 04, 2008, 01:10:16 pm
also with 3 outputs you should get better flow.  with one output you will have lots of water trying to get through one small hole.  i think they theory is if you have the output flush with the bottom of the hull and angled to the stern the water rushing past the outlet will suck this also helping with flow.  This is what i did anyway and it seems to work......
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 07, 2008, 10:27:41 pm
Yep, that sounds logical - three inputs with three outputs - Thanks guys, just need to figure out where to put them ;D

Martin doon  under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 07, 2008, 10:36:35 pm
Started work on the forward superstructure section.

Basically was built using a combination of 1.5 and 3mm marine plywood. Box section made up incorporating the Bridge area.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 07, 2008, 10:42:08 pm
Next bit was to laminate several pieces of block balsa for either side of bridge area, then carve and sand to shape. Believe it or not, but this took some time to get both P & S sides the same shape and size.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 07, 2008, 10:46:04 pm
These two sections were then epoxied to the main superstructure. Another block of Balsa added to the aft section and all flaired in.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 07, 2008, 11:01:46 pm
Sorry, messed up attaching photo's above.

Next - I then had to make up 2 domes to fit onto the balsa sides that are attached to the side of the bridge.

I made up these domes by cutting circles of 10mm balsa to 4 different diameters and glueing together. I tried shaping these freehand but turned out horrible. I then made up another set and then attached a long screw to the base disc. This assembly was then placed into my floor standing drill press (don't have a wood lathe, so this was the next best thing) and proceeded to use files and various grades of sand paper to achieve desired result...

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 16, 2008, 09:35:30 pm
After the domes were made, I had to cut them vertically and slightly off center. The base was shaped to match the sides of the superstructure, glued into place then P38 applied.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 16, 2008, 09:48:20 pm
After the domes were attached, something did not look right - the sides of the bridge area. The side should be level with the top of the dome and angled down towards the front of the structure.
The easiest way to fix this was to add a 1.5mm sheet ply to the outside (side of bridge) then add another small piece to the inside.

You can see the difference between the next 2 photo's and the previous.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on November 16, 2008, 10:12:27 pm
For now I have stopped work on the forward superstructure section as I need to calculate and mark out the opening on the deck to access internals.
Firstly, what I need to know is how far and where will the coaming behind the forward section meet the deck. Also how was I going to attach coaming to deck - believe me, this turned out to be a real nightmare with some external help.

From the drawings I made up a template of the coaming and taped to forward section, then placed the assembly onto the deck to check measurements etc. This took quite some time before I was happy to proceed.

My first attempt was to make up some framing and plank the coaming from 0.6mm ply as used on the hull construction - this turned into a real disaster and scrapped the whole idea - fortunately, I did not take any photo's of this process - nothing to be proud of.

After some discussion with a good friend and superb model maker, I decided to use 0.8mm marine 3 ply sheet instead - this stuff is not cheap. A sheet 4 foot square cost $115.00 AU - so don't stuff it up.

I then placed the template over the ply sheet and cut with a sharp knife, sanded and glued into place.

My apologies for no photo of this at  the moment - camera batteries flat.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on December 04, 2008, 07:27:02 am
As Promised, a couple of photo's showing the coaming now attached to the forward superstructure. Here I decided it would be far better to support coaming if the deck below superstructure was permanently attached. This then enabled me to glue the lower edge of coaming to the deck - less chances of damaging superstructure when gaining access to inside of hull..

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on December 04, 2008, 07:52:37 am
Back to the deck opening.

This took a bit of working out on how best to mount the complete superstructure section onto the deck and still maintain integrity with regards to water seal and appearance.

It was decided as per a good friend and modeler to have the forward and aft superstructure sections along with the two bofors, be lifted off as one section. This would also facilitate protecting the bofors and most fittings from damage when gaining access to inside of hull.
 A platform was made up using 8mm ply and the rear superstructure section (not constructed yet) will be permanently mounted to it. This in turn will be attached to the deck area of the forward section beneath the coaming. I decided not to glue this section as it would make access difficult during construction to the area underneath the coaming re adding detail and painting - instead , it will be screwed into place.
The platform also has a smaller section attached that fits onto the front section below bridge for mounting the forward Bofor.

This platform and forward superstructure assemblies were placed on the hull and a pattern taken in order to work out  the opening.

Too difficult to explain this process but a picture is worth a thousand words - you figure it out.

The opening is not complete yet as a smaller section of ply needs to be added to the framework - this facilitates the deck mounting and provides a clean and tight finish..phew!!


Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on December 04, 2008, 07:57:01 am
More pics with forward superstructure sitting in place..just to check that I did not stuff up %)

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: dan on December 04, 2008, 08:00:24 am
hi Martin,

I'm following with intrest and learning quite a bit. its coming along very nicely  :-))  keep the pics comming please

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on December 11, 2008, 10:21:37 pm
Glad to hear that you are getting something out of the build dantheman and thanks for the comments. ;)

Now if you watch very closely, you will get to see a major stuff up.

Basically, the mounting area for the superstructure is now complete and the forward structure sits on the framework nicely.

Note: the last picture shows the frame the the aft structure will be built on.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on December 11, 2008, 10:27:47 pm
Next bit was to manufacture the water deflector on the trailing edge of the coaming. The idea was to cut several sections of 1.5mm ply to the shape of the trailing edge of the coaming, glue into place then file/sand to correct shape.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on December 11, 2008, 10:59:28 pm
This is where things went horribly wrong. As I added the 1.5mm strips, the coaming distorted out of shape and no matter what I attempted - I could not fix it.........#@^*  it >>:-( >>:-(

I now need to manufacture another coaming and start again. My current thoughts are to use the same technique but use 0.8mm ply instead.

Now on my knees I would beg for forum assistance as to how I can build the water deflector to the trailing edge of the coaming. The deflector will eventually be a "D" shape and is about 28 inches long overall.
All suggestions greatly appreciated -


Martin the frustrated >:-o

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on December 12, 2008, 10:41:16 pm
I see by Pm's that I have received that some are confused by the area in question. Later today I will post some photo's with arrows attached of the real boat plus a model. Hopefully this will then be self explanatory - One day I hope to get my nautical terminology correct.

Martin down under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on December 13, 2008, 10:13:00 am
I see by Pm's that I have received that some are confused by the area in question. Later today I will post some photo's with arrows attached of the real boat plus a model. Hopefully this will then be self explanatory - One day I hope to get my nautical terminology correct.

Martin down under

A couple of pictures as promised - Water deflector marked with Red Arrow - Just need some ideas on how to make this without being too fragile..

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: boatmadman on December 13, 2008, 06:58:19 pm
How about using a length of styrene tube, slit along one edge, warmed and gently bent to shape and fitted over the trailing edge of the superstructure?

Ian

Just looked more closely, how about, cut a quarter off a length of tube, bend to shape, glue on, and fit the straight edge? Fiddly, but may work?
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on December 13, 2008, 11:02:13 pm
Ian,

Thanks for your suggestion.

I also thought of this method and purchased a length of Evergreen tube.The tube is very stiff and will need to be softened to bend around curves and filled with P38 as necessary. I suppose their are many methods and options available to reproduce the deflector, so I hope other forum members can also give there advice and suggestions.
I will take them all on board and try out on some scrap first as I do not wish to destroy another coaming/shelter assembly.

This part of the build can be done at a later stage and I can go on with other areas of the build. So for now I will wait for more suggestions and ideas of which one will work without too much trouble hopefully :-))

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: dan on December 23, 2008, 11:20:00 pm
hi martin,
i just caught up with the build, and its looking great.
i might have missed this, but can i ask where you got the plans from?
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Bunkerbarge on December 24, 2008, 12:40:01 am
Evergreen bends nicely with a bit of gentle heating.  I bent 2mm half round to a radius of about 10mm without any problems for a bulwark capping edge.  I used a hairdryer to warm it!
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on December 24, 2008, 11:49:53 am
hi martin,
i just caught up with the build, and its looking great.
i might have missed this, but can i ask where you got the plans from?

dantheman,
If you ask very, very nicely and willing to part with a sum of money - email John Lambert - BB is not on his listings.

Bunkerbarge,
Thanks for the suggestion - a hair dryer - never thought of that. If I put anything other than food in swmbo's oven - that will be the end of me <*<

Martin doon under

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 16, 2009, 09:43:17 pm
Well, I tried a number of methods to construct the Water Deflector on a prototype and was not overly impressed with the result. This included using evergreen tube cut to shape, heated and glued into place - messy and very fiddly. Also tried using 1.0mm ply and building up to the correct height but similar problems occurred as previous.

Eventually I came a across a piece of 80 year old Canadian Oregon that I had laying about in the shed. I decided that using my bandsaw, I could cut out the profiles I need in 5 sections, 1 for the top, 2 for the curves and 2 for the sides. Firstly I cut the long length with the grain of the timber as this would be glued to the top of the shroud  (roughly 10mm square). Prior to epoxying this into place I cut a piece of timber to the profile of the shroud and supported the underneath to aid and support the shroud and to keep its proper profile.

After gluing the first piece and allowing to dry, I was quite surprised by how strong this material was and did not distort the shroud as what had happened with previous attempts.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 16, 2009, 09:59:21 pm
Having glued on the top section I then proceeded with the sides and curved areas. The task was not difficult and although each section was only 10mm square with compound curves, the strength in the material was astonishing and easy to work with. After completing all sections and filling gaps with P38 the Water Deflector was filed and sanded to shape.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 16, 2009, 10:02:53 pm
And a couple more pics showing scale of model .

Note - UK coins - thanks John

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 16, 2009, 10:17:50 pm
Just back- tracking for one moment as I forgot to detail this part of the build. Prior to working on the Water Deflector, the Vosper drawings showed what appeared to be a "T" section on the inside of the shroud assembly. This was made of of 3 sections using 1.5mm ply. Making the sections was easy but holding and epoxying into place, a large amount of alcohol was consumed.
It was important to add these strips in as it would also help the shroud keep its original profile.

Martin  - the little light headed on this day..... %) %)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 16, 2009, 10:29:08 pm
I have now started the construction of the rear superstructure assembly. The first part is to construct the platform for the structure to be mounted on. A fiddly bit of construction as the platform is raised about 6.0mm above the main deck. Also the rear section of deck where the aft 40mm bofor will be mounted, must also be attached to this platform.

Reason being is that eventually from the aft bofor to the forward bofor, this will be one long section and can be removed as one piece to gain access to inside of hull..

P.S unfortunately at the moment with the hot weather we are having at the moment (40 - 43 degrees C) a large amount of alcohol is being consumed and its sometimes hard to find where my model is %) %) %)  O0

Martin down under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on January 17, 2009, 09:19:05 am
Looking really good Martin. :-))

How did you get money out of John ?  <*<
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 22, 2009, 08:20:20 pm
Looking really good Martin. :-))

How did you get money out of John ?  <*<

Dicky,

Just need to know which buttons to press O0 {-) {-)

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 22, 2009, 08:29:05 pm
I have now started on the construction of the rear superstructure assembly. The sides were made of 3mm ply whilst internal supports were 10mm balsa strips. I have used balsa because I can make the supports quite large, very easy to shape and light in weight. The top part will be covered in 1.5mm ply, again to ease in bending the material to the correct profile.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 22, 2009, 08:34:49 pm
Rear superstructure completed and sanded. No filling required.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 22, 2009, 08:42:17 pm
A couple more pica's showing structure in place.
For now, the 2 superstructure sections will not be joined as I still need to add detail to inside of shroud etc. I have now started on the forward 40mm Bofor platform that is attached to the forward/ bridge section. 


Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on January 22, 2009, 08:57:02 pm
woo there Martin, I never knew that Tamiya made a kit that big  {-) {-) %%

looking really professional mate, keep up the good work ....

aye
john
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on January 22, 2009, 10:02:48 pm
Coming on well there Martin, looking really good. :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 22, 2009, 11:44:28 pm
Thanks guys for the words of encouragement - it all helps.

Have you lads noticed the markings on the side of the work bench. these are various ships marked out to show length at 1:72 scale with Hood and Missouri running of the end of the bench being 3600mm long.

for John, notice ash tray top left hand corner, last pic.
 :-X
Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 23, 2009, 09:32:52 pm
Just for fun.

To give a representation of scale for Brave Borderer.

I have started on my Fleetscale build of HMS Vanguard at 1:128 scale. For working on the shafts, I found that placing the hull on top of the BB hull was a good comfortable height.

As the picture shows, Vanguard is 130mm longer or about 5 inches.

Martin du

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 13, 2009, 11:41:57 am
Time for another update. Due to circumstances out of my control (bushfires), I have only just got back to BB.

What a relief it was to finally get back into the shed and work on my models again although it took some doing.

I had been having problems with the balsa part of the superstructure - no matter how much I sanded the cabin area, I could not get it right and kept putting dents and deep scratches into the balsa. After a good discussion with a friend, I eventually painted on 3 coats of fibreglass resin with sanding between coats. I must admit - this solved the problem and the cabin area is now a lot stronger with a much harder surface.

The next part was to start construction of the decks. For this I traced the shape of the bow area onto some cardboard as a template and transferred this to a sheet of 3mm Marine Plywood. I then cut out the rough shape of ply on a bandsaw. I then applied waterproof glue to all deck supports and outer edges prior to laying deck in place. Due to the size and thickness of the ply, I nailed the deck down along the edges and clamped the deck nearing the centre line.


Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 13, 2009, 11:56:26 am
The next part was to take the profile of the P & S sides of the superstructure deck areas. This was done in the same manner as the forward deck area. Then the last bit at the back was fitted. The ply decking was sanded down at the sides and nail holes filled with P38.

Apparently, I made it too well. When I placed the superstructure in its place - I could not remove it - too tight. The inside area where the superstructure would fit had to be carefully sanded back to allow for paint etc.


Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 13, 2009, 12:05:37 pm
More pics showing superstructure in place. The strips beside BB are the rubbing strips to be added to hull sides at deck level. These were cut on the bandsaw using 10mm pine. 2 long lengths for the sides and a smaller section cut into a curve for fitting to the bow. These will be glued and nailed into place.


Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 13, 2009, 12:14:30 pm
Last pic showing where I'm up to. The rubbing strips are now fitted and am about to start sanding a nice curve (hopefully) along the entire length. Still need to make another strip as fitted to transom and match the curvature of the deck - How I love sanding %)

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on March 13, 2009, 01:06:43 pm
Looking really good Martin. Nice to have you back on here. :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on March 13, 2009, 01:30:49 pm
The Lord give me these hands never to be idle
he gave me my mind never to be at a loss
he gave me my eyes to see
and with the three I will give you something to look upon that is beauty

well done my mate

John
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Hagar on March 24, 2009, 07:01:46 pm
Thats deep Bluebird!

Nice work Martin. Glad to hear you are back on the case.
Just on question, Whats the length of her. ( and dont say 5" longer than vanguard, I dont know how long she is :-p )
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 28, 2009, 08:48:23 pm
Thats deep Bluebird!

Nice work Martin. Glad to hear you are back on the case.
Just on question, Whats the length of her. ( and dont say 5" longer than vanguard, I dont know how long she is :-p )

G'Day Ian M

Have not seen you on the forum for some time - glad to see you again.

Thanks for your comments.
Brave Borderer is 1800mm or 72 inches long with a beam of 450mm or 18 inches. She's pretty big with plenty of room inside.

Modelling is fairly slow at the moment, fire season is not not over and swmbo keeps reminding me that the trees need pruning, plants need potting etc..

Boy, the things we guys have to put up with just to get fed >>:-(

Martin doon under


Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Hagar on March 29, 2009, 10:00:49 pm
Been in the forum almost every day, just not posted much of late.
Been kit bashing. Still to cold to varnish my powerboat. Dont want the varnish going milky do we?

Nice boat. looking forwards to seing it done, Borderer that is.

Keep looking at our garden and thinking It could do with a bit of TLC, but more inclined to DDT !!
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: fooman2008 on April 03, 2009, 09:35:01 am
Martin,
Being a yank I am unfamiliar with BB, she is some kind of post WWII motor gunboat?  I have never seen someone make a trim-tab that could be adjusted underway, neat! :-))  Normally, you would put a bearing or shim between the aft end of the strut and the propeller (the yank term would be trust bearing) to convey the propulsion to the strut and thus the hull.  If you put the thrust bearing on the shaft as it enters the hull the stress of the thrust from the prop(s) and torque will cause the shafts to whip and wear the struts prematurely.  Something as simple as an 'oilite' (damn what was that term? instead of a bearing it is a _ _ _ _ ? damn? sudden onset Alzheimers!) can take the place of the trust bearing and be fairly cheap. BUSHINGS that's it! oilite bushings!
Foo
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: lscc61114 on April 10, 2009, 10:14:35 pm
Hi All,

I'm a complete noob to this site, you might be interested in my hobby website at www.perkasa.co.uk,

If anyone can contribute with Perkasa / Brave borderer info please get in touch.  I'd also like to publish some model photos particularily of this big scale brave borderer.

It looks big enough to have a firing bofors ;)

Best Regards
Dave
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 16, 2009, 06:30:04 pm
Ian M,

Yeah, I noticed that you have been logged on and like me, not posted much. Now the Bushfires have ended, I'm trying to catch up with the garden maintenance and pruning trees now that the Bushfires have ended. Currently I have about 80 cubic metres of prunings and only half way through the job. Swmbo purchased me a Pole Chainsaw and has made life a lot easier although my arms are ready to expire. Having a break for a few days and working on BB again.

G'day Fooman.

Glad you like BB which is similar to your PT boats only I'm building her as a Motor Gun Boat - no torpedoes at this stage. I'm attempting to build her as close to scale as possible hence the adjustable transom flap. I have installed bearings inside the P Brackets ( struts) as you have suggested.

Iscc1114,

Had a look at your website - well done.

Firing Bofors - the thought has crossed my mind, heh heh.

Will send PM


Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: fooman2008 on April 17, 2009, 02:20:29 pm
Martin over on R/C groups there is a gentleman working on a 1/35th scale Fletcher class destroyer he is planning to have the five inch mounts 'fire' using a cam and motor system to simulate the recoil and firing cycle of the guns.  Let me find the posting and I put it on here.
Foo
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: steve pickstock on April 17, 2009, 02:38:49 pm
Martin and Iscc1114, you might want to have a look at the gas blowback mechanisms from Airsoft pistols. In case you aren't aware of them they work from various gas mixes to simulate the slide recoil - some of you guys are good enough to engineer a mechnaism to duplicate this and power it from a Sparklet's CO2 cylinder.

Please note I am not advocating discharging anything from these weapons just using the gas to power the recoil.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: fooman2008 on April 17, 2009, 03:43:10 pm
found the post here it is with a PDF describing what he wants to build.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11312433&postcount=313
If you've got a couple of hours read the thread, it is a nice build!
Foo
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 18, 2009, 12:30:17 pm
Martin and Iscc1114, you might want to have a look at the gas blowback mechanisms from Airsoft pistols. In case you aren't aware of them they work from various gas mixes to simulate the slide recoil - some of you guys are good enough to engineer a mechnaism to duplicate this and power it from a Sparklet's CO2 cylinder.

Please note I am not advocating discharging anything from these weapons just using the gas to power the recoil.

Interesting thought %)


Might come in handy for those little children who must touch your model. Wouldn't it be great if the gun turned, recoiled then squirted water at the little blighter's {-) {-) {-)

Martin doon under.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 18, 2009, 12:34:06 pm
found the post here it is with a PDF describing what he wants to build.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11312433&postcount=313
If you've got a couple of hours read the thread, it is a nice build!
Foo

Foo man,

Interesting build. Haven't read it all yet but bookmarked the page. Got side tracked by Bogstandards build of the Steam Turbine Engine - what a brilliant job - I'll keep on dreaming

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 24, 2009, 01:51:04 pm
Time for another update.

Now that the rubbing strip was fitted, this was sanded down to a nice rounded shape including  a piece on the transom. After large amounts of sanding it was time to make up the toe rail.

This was achieved by cutting 2 lengths of 3mm marine plywood about 6mm high on the bandsaw. I then slowly pinned and glued the toe rail around the edge next to the rubbing strip. When the glue had set, I then sanded the toe rail down to about 3mm high then sanded  a radius along the top edge.

A few other pieces were attached to the hull (bits that I forgot) and filled/sanded the rear superstructure section. Ready and just needs paint at last.

My first attempt at using Plasticard. Four doors were made up and fitted to superstructure. In the photo, you can see the two  doors under the shroud,

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 24, 2009, 02:22:35 pm
It was interesting making the doors. As I have said, this is my first attempt at using Plasticard. After I had cut out the shape of the door, drilled the porthole and sanded edges, I then held the door using modelling pins to a block of wood. I then cut a length of 1mm x 2mm plastic strip and held it in place around the door frame. Using weld-on or something similar, brushed around mating surfaces never too sure if I used enough or maybe too much. After about 5 minutes I removed the pins and lifted door assembly from block - the strip fell off   %$#@% >>:-(

Since then I have been advised to leave it for an hour to set.

Time to start on bridge detail.yippee.

I made up the instrument and side panels from block balsa using various thicknesses. These were then carefully fitted and glued into place. After the glue had set, I then filed and sanded the balsa top edge down to meet the marine ply outer framework. In my eagerness to do this, I inadvertently sanded a bevel around the top edge of the balsa blocks - something else to fix. This will need to be repaired later as a plasticard shelf needs to be glued on top all the way around.

I have now started to cover the balsa with 1.0mm Plasticard sheet and strips.

For representation of scale  - can you see the 1 pound coin on instrument panel

Martin doon under

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: andyn on April 24, 2009, 06:03:48 pm
I think that £1 would be better spent buying a proper steering wheel for it ;)

Looks superb, can't wait to see it going
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: derekwarner on April 25, 2009, 01:10:11 am
Martin......the exchange rate is good @ the moment.....so take that silly £1 coin to Harvey Norman Travel $ Exchange & convert it into legal OZ money  :-))..............Derek...this week in Adelaide in the rain  O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 14, 2009, 09:24:14 am
Hi All, back again.

For the past couple of months I have been building Ammo Boxes and seeing that this is a fairly large model, the boxes will need some detail to look reasonable.

Around the superstructure there are in total 15 Ammo Boxes of three different sizes. 4 Tall Lockers, 10 small lockers and one slightly larger mounted forward of the rear Bofor.

The lockers have been constructed using firstly a balsa block covered with 1mm styrene. The 2 doors I used 2mm styrene for better definition. for all the various hinges, piping etc, I used Plastered as they had a better selection of profiles (and I was able to buy cheaper direct from the USA).
For the door locking arms - I used 1mm brass rod and 1.5mm brass rod for the door handles..

The 4 tall lockers consist of 86 parts each whilst the smaller lockers consist of 96 parts per locker.

As you can see I still have not finished constructing the lockers but hope to do so in the next week or so. After assembly, each lockers edges etc will be finished off but I believe they will look much better once painted.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 14, 2009, 09:25:48 am
Now the Three different Lockers

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 14, 2009, 09:27:47 am

and the assembly line

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on June 14, 2009, 10:03:08 am
86 and 96 parts each, you're barmy Martin.  %)

Excellent job though.  :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Guy Bagley on June 14, 2009, 11:23:16 am
PERSONALLY I WOULD HAVE MADE ONE OF EACH SIZE REQUIRED, , SILICON MOULDED IT AND MADE THE REST IN RESIN - BUT FINE WORK THERE MARTIN !
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: dan on June 14, 2009, 01:21:22 pm
brilliant jobs on the lockers mate  :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on June 14, 2009, 02:24:55 pm
neither wonder there has been no sound from you for the last couple of months  :o :o do you fancy making some more at 1:96 scale  ;) ;)

cracking job Grommet
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 14, 2009, 10:24:37 pm
PERSONALLY I WOULD HAVE MADE ONE OF EACH SIZE REQUIRED, , SILICON MOULDED IT AND MADE THE REST IN RESIN - BUT FINE WORK THERE MARTIN !

G'Day there Guy,

This is a fairly large model (1800mm) and the tall lockers are 85mm high, 55mm wide, 25mm deep whilst the smaller lockers are 45mm high, 80mm wide and 35mm deep. I felt that building each individual locker, I would be able to add far greater detail than as provided via a mould. For instance, the gap beneath the handles would be filled using resin.

This model was originally planned as a full scratch build with only the stanchions being store bought. I like many others on the forum,  enjoy scratch building a model and if you look at other scratch built warships, you can see the detail built into the model. Mind you, I don't compare myself with these chaps as they are in a league of their own - but maybe one day.........

Thanks for your kind thoughts and ideas are always welcome....

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 14, 2009, 10:36:01 pm
Dicky and Bluebird,

The swmbo felt sorry for me in the shed whilst I was building the lockers so she let me into the house and am now building on the edge of the dining room table - never thought I would see the day.
My wife has the same idea as you Dicky, she thinks I'm crazy and I think I'm heading in that direction. As you can appreciate with so many bits, work has slowed a little and think that I need another couple of weeks to complete the lockers.

I sat the lockers on the model the other day and must admit - they do look good.

John, how many do you need at 1:96 ? I'm getting pretty good at this :D :D


Thanks everybody for your kind comments - I need all the encouragement I can get - or it's the nut house %% %%

Martin du 
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on June 15, 2009, 08:14:25 am


John, how many do you need at 1:96 ? I'm getting pretty good at this :D :D


Thanks everybody for your kind comments - I need all the encouragement I can get - or it's the nut house %% %%

Martin du  
Definately barmy.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 15, 2009, 01:54:05 pm

Side discussion on the original ,

What was the superstructure made from?
And why so many compound curves?

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 22, 2009, 12:52:52 pm

Side discussion on the original ,

What was the superstructure made from?
And why so many compound curves?



Martin,

Hull was built from timber over an aluminium framework. As far as I know the superstructure was timber as well but not 100% certain, as for the curves >>:-( a right pain to construct. CDSC123 would be the man to ask this question..

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 22, 2009, 12:59:01 pm
Finally completed all the ammo lockers and for effect, placed them on my hull - must admit - they do look good.

Now that I have gone totally looney, think I'll have a break for a week or two and do something different.

By the way, as it turned out, I apparently built one locker too many - anybody in the market for "One 1/16th scale two door Ammo Locker" %) %)

A couple of pics

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 22, 2009, 01:01:16 pm
And a couple more..........



Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: andrewh on June 22, 2009, 03:31:44 pm
Martindu

From the Ammo boxes you have clearly mastered the plasticard assembly :}
I have just been reading the last few pages and noticed your vicissitudes (can I say that?) with plasticard and the doors

I suspect it is now quite irrelevant but the advice to leave anything to glue for an hour is terrible overkill.  If you have the parts in good contact - wick solvent into the joint with a paintbrush (that you don't care about) the joint will be self-holding within 2 minutes or so. 
Easiest glueing jig is your non-brush hand :}, second easiest is narrow strips of insulating tape holding the joint tightly together

But I'm sure you have perfected your welding technique
Love the build and the boat - how about one of the model turboshafts  - or three -  to power it and get the authentic smell of (largely unburnt) paraffin/kerosene

andrew
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: rsm on June 22, 2009, 03:46:34 pm
Hi Martin,

Changing the subject slightly. How is your Fleetscale Vanguard coming along?

Roger.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 23, 2009, 10:07:31 am
Thanks Andrewh,

The construction of the Ammo Lockers were a good introduction to using Plasticard. After having glued about 1500 small individual parts, I now feel reasonably confident in attempting superstructure parts on my Vanguard - it's been an experience.

Don't know about building the 3 Proteus engines out of Plasticard but the last challenge will be those 40mm Bofors. Again due to scale, I wish to construct with as much detail as possible. In the next few weeks I will probably go back to detailing the bridge area now that I have received more Plastruct profiles from the USA...

Roger - Fleetscale Vanguard - swmbo asked the same question. Currently, only the 4 prop shafts and rudder are installed. As a break from BB, I intend to start the forward superstructure this weekend but finding everything is SO SMALL. I think she would look better and easier to build at 1:72 scale (about 3400mm long and in the pipeline ;D)

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: andi4x4 on August 01, 2009, 09:02:36 pm
Hi Martin,

Can't believe it is 15 months since I last posted on this forum !

 She's looking good ! Love the lockers - I have some parts made up for mine that I am planning to make moulds from in order to cast the lockers I need - I dont have the patience to make them all out of plasticard like you !

Your transom flap has given me the incentive to get on and do some more on mine - if I can find the space !

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on February 10, 2010, 10:32:44 am
Hi all - Yes , I'm back.

2009 was a busy year. As mentioned previously, swmbo allowed me to do some work on the dining room table, but after several months and me slowly taking over more of the table (no room to eat my dinner) swmbo suggested I move into one of the vacant bedrooms-What a smashing idea. Now I have plenty of room and can bring in more bits and pieces.

After the locker construction and needing a break from BB, I began construction of the forward superstructure for my fleetscale HMS Vanguard. Vanguard is very fiddly being 128th scale, seemed like I was never going to get it right even with all the photo's I had collected but finally succeeded. Very small but does look good.

Back to BB. I have been working on the open bridge section and pleased with current results. I'm also working on the Generator Exhaust setup but am not too happy with the main uprights of the exhausts. For these I used 19mm and 25 mm dowels and am having troubles with the wood chipping at the ends. My current thoughts are to go to an electrical supplier and see if I can use electrical PVC conduits instead - I think these will give a better finish. I have made the connecting plates complete with nuts and bolts (made from styrene).

Back to the Open Bridge - At the rear to the bridge, on the floor/deck are several boxes which I have constructed the basic shapes but I have no idea as to what these boxes should look like - that is, the detail as to how the boxes were constructed in real life. for example hinges, closing latches and basic framework of each box. I have not been able to find photos showing the detail to these boxes.
The Vosper plans I'm using detail these boxes as follows:-
a). Signal Flags Box.
b). Stowage for Recognition Lights.
c). Pyrotechnics Locker.
d). Body Armour Locker.
e). Steel Helmet Locker.

These boxes are quite small (probably knee high or there abouts) and the lids open upwards.
I'm asking for your help. Do members have any idea how these boxes might look. Can forum members please post any pics you may have here on my post. I need to add some detail to the boxes as they look very plain in their current state.

In the next week or so (when I find where the woman hid the camera) I will post some pics.

Thanks in advance.

Martin doon under

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on February 10, 2010, 08:18:50 pm
Hi Martin, I was beginning to think you had left us  :-)) At least it would be much better down your way than this time last year.

I'm sure we look forward to seeing your progress, when you find the camera, that is :}

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Perkasaman2 on February 10, 2010, 09:21:45 pm
Hi Martin, You've inspired a lot of modellers  :-)) Here's a few rare clips to enjoy. These were impressive boats.  ok2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV8Exhc359o

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Gra on February 11, 2010, 06:18:25 am
Hi Martin,

Is your boat going to go as fast as the Youtube boats.

Have not seen you at Surrey Park for some time. O0

Graham
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on February 11, 2010, 09:14:24 am
Wheres the pictures of your KGV Martin ? :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on February 11, 2010, 12:28:08 pm
Peter - glad to see the end of 2009 - Bushfires, Swine Flu, and Workplace injuries - arm finally out of plaster and can get back on modelling/forum.

Perkasaman - thanks for the Link - you have a talent in finding all the good stuff on the web.

Graham - I think if I put BB in the water and get it to plane, she will be chasing the ducks in the Surrey Dive carpark. I hope to have water trials around June if all goes well. Sunday's have been very busy of late but I hope to get down there soon.

Dicky- I don't think this is the place for KGV,  but just for you:-

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on February 11, 2010, 12:30:29 pm
Dicky - Note BB's drawings on the back wall - will give you some idea of size - 1:72 scale, 3200mm long %%

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on February 11, 2010, 01:39:11 pm
That is nice Martin. You must let us see more. O0

I keep on at John about Skype, you have a go.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on February 19, 2010, 07:50:22 pm
I had 2 wins this week. I found where the swmbo hid the camera (in her car) and my order of Plastruct arrived from the US as I have been waiting for this in order to proceed with detailing. I tend to use a lot of Plastruct mainly due to the large range of profiles available and I buy it cheaper direct from the manufacturer. Plastruct range is very extensive for when you wish to do detail work as BB requires.

The picture shows most of the lengths purchased but not the profiled sheets etc.

Don't ask what I spent on this lot.

Martin du

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on February 19, 2010, 08:04:17 pm
I have been working on the open bridge area and adding detail. I have made the basic shapes of various boxes/lockers that are on the aft section deck floor. Now that my order has arrived, I can continue with detailing. Whilst adding detail to the instrument panel, I noticed something did not look right. The floor/deck appeared too deep. As it turned out, I had to raise the deck by 15mm - now that looks better. I intend to add as much detail as possible to the open bridge so there is a long way to go.

 I'm also looking around for stickers of gauges/dials approximately 3mm to 6 mm in diameter. Should anybody have suggestions as to where I can purchase these, please let me know.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on February 19, 2010, 08:22:16 pm
Whilst waiting for my order to arrive, I decided to make a start on the Generator Exhaust as fitted between the lockers on the aft section superstructure.

Basically I used 2mm styrene for the flanges, a mixture of hardwood dowel, balsa and PVC electrical conduit for the round spacer sections and the main body including the duct up to the header/exhaust outlet. For detailing, I cut small sections of 2mm hexagonal profile and glued these to the flanges either side to represent the nuts and bolts then drilled a small hole and glued 1mm round to represent the thread protruding from the nut. I know it's probably going overboard but it's very effective - will look even better when painted.

The header/exhaust outlet - I didn't like the first one I made so have now started on the Mk2 version. this is basically carved out of balsa block, shaped to correct profile and the exhaust outlet lined with some aluminium tubing. I will also need to add some small sections of dowel with flanges added that will connect to the rest of the exhaust system. When I have completed this, I will post more pics..

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on February 19, 2010, 08:43:29 pm
Looking good Martin itchy doon under. :-))

Try Barry's Model Lettering.

http://www.modellettering.com/showProducts.asp?categorycode=04

He does custom stuff as well, John uses him too, he's excellent and service is good.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on February 19, 2010, 08:52:16 pm
Thanks for that Dicky, will check out the site tonight as I'm about to head off on a 3 hour drive to Barham NSW (our club TF72 have a Regatta on today and I promised the lads I would attend). Thought I might post on the forum whilst the sun comes up over hear. Can't leave too early as the Roos are everywhere this time of year. I don't think swmbo would be impressed if I hit one using her car. I'm using her car as the air conditioner works extremely well - Temp predicted to exceed 40. C degrees today in Barham..

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 02, 2010, 07:56:03 am
I have basically made the Mk2 header although needs cleaning up and more detail added. I have since decided not to attach to the uprights as they will need to be mounted in their correct position on the superstructure prior header being attached. Why you may ask - I think if I attempt to attach the header to the rest of the assembly free from the superstructure - I'll only stuff it up  >>:-((seeing I'm really good at doing this).

Anyway, a couple of pics to give you the idea.

Mdu
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 02, 2010, 08:01:49 am
Just to give you an idea, a couple more pics of header/exhaust gently resting on structure. I took these photos outside hoping the detail may be a little better to see.

Mdu

Yeah I know, the header is upside down in one pic {:-{
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on March 04, 2010, 08:29:38 am
Everything has now been put aside including working on the open bridge. It's been a long time that BB has been sitting on the bench with only undercoat applied and patchy at that. After much discussion/assistance from CDSC123 and a few other helpful gents, I have now managed to get hold of the correct shade of Light Admiralty Grey paint - which looks more green than grey.

It's time to see if this thing floats and how many bricks (attempt at humour) will I need for ballast to make it float correctly. Some time ago, I managed to pickup a Stainless Steel tank from an auction - it's about 8 foot long, 18 inches wide and about 10 inches deep - should make a great Test Tank.

The weather has been great lately, no more temps in the high 30's and 40's, so now is the time to paint the beast and hope to spray the hull in the next week or so. But before that can happen, I apparently forgot to make the 3 exhaust outlets and a few grab rails etc as fitted to the transom.

I am currently constructing the 3 exhaust outlets using mainly 2mm styrene for the base and flap, 3.2mm angle for reinforcing and mounting plates for the 2 hinges. The round part cut at an angle of 4 degrees is actually PVC pressure pipe. Would you believe I had to buy a 6 metre length just to use 25mm, but have managed to find a good use for the rest of it. 

Anyhow, progress so far, although not complete yet and still need to be cleaned up but will give a general idea

Martin doon under

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: steve pickstock on March 04, 2010, 08:46:00 am
Lovely work, I really enjoy this build.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 11, 2010, 05:20:45 am
Lovely work, I really enjoy this build.

Thanks Steve for your kind comment. I was also enjoying this build up until a few weeks ago when I made an enormous error of which I'm too embarrassed to talk about {:-{ {:-{ {:-{. I even went to the point of ringing Bluebird on how to fix it - at the time, I did not know if he was laughing or crying. Might tell you about that later as it's embarrassing.

Anyway after that total stuff up, I made the life boat containers (still yet to be finished) and there support cradle that sits on the back of the rear superstructure assembly.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 11, 2010, 05:25:11 am
I also started making the boxes/containers as fitted in the open bridge aft section.

Just a quick pic to show progress..as I have a few more to make in various sizes etc

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 11, 2010, 05:29:10 am
The life boat containers. I need to place a piece of 3mm plastic strip over the containers and through the brass hoops on the cradle. Each time I do this the plastic strip either breaks or does not conform to the profile of the containers.

Any ideas out there to make my life a little easier.....please

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Colin Bishop on April 11, 2010, 09:12:30 am
Small cable ties?
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 11, 2010, 09:33:15 am
Small cable ties?

Now that I did not think of - will give it a go tonight. I need to paint em black anyhow....

Thanks Colin :-))

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: pugwash on April 11, 2010, 10:22:18 am
I dontknow if they would be thick enough at your scale of build but I went to my local paint shop - who
also do van logos andgot some offcuts  of the various coloured vinyls and doubled them over when I wanted
a loop or stuck them back to back .  they were always too shiny so 1200 wet and dry and paint as normal
they were  very flexible

Pugwash
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: BillG on April 15, 2010, 06:45:15 am
G'day Martin,

Just finished reading the about your build. Boy! I certainly enjoyed it as it took me more than 1.5 hours to read

It is pleasing to see a build  diary aimed at informing newbies (I'm one) of the pitfalls when building from scratch and how these mistakes can be corrected by contacting more experienced members who obviously are willing to help.

I will be following the rest of your build with more than a passing interest.

Cheers
Bill

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Tornadon on April 27, 2010, 10:03:38 pm
Wow that's lot's of work
what is the estimated time on this specific build?


Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on April 28, 2010, 12:07:56 pm
Just for info - Colin's cable tie suggestion worked perfectly for the life raft containers.

Pugwash - thanks for the tip but tried Colins idea immediately - has some cable ties on hand.

BillG. Glad you like my build to date. As I suggested in the pm, have a go - plenty of chaps here to give sound advice. I know, I wouldn't have gotten this far without the help of many.

Tornadon, You got it right - that is a lot of work with lots more to come. Estimated time you ask - I haven't got a clue. I can't even remember when I started the beast. The plan is (and my plans are always late) to have the boat in the water sometime in June for sea trials, ie will it float, how much ballast and do the motors and electronics work well together, then finally - what needs to be modified or beefed up. Model Completion - hopefully sometime in 2011 %)

In about a weeks time I hope to receive all the bits and a special item from ACTion. Both DaveM and Pete aka PMK have gone to a lot of work in sorting this baby out but more details later. :-))

Still progressing detailing/fittings etc and am slowly putting a word document together explaining my latest MEGA blunder {:-{ as I will have to own up to it sooner or later. (Came very close to calling it quits).

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 02, 2010, 09:01:30 am

..............................................................................MEGA BLUNDER..................................................................................

                                                        Newbie’s and all take heed – This is a warning!

                                                           Maybe you can avoid the mistake I made.

I have been at this build for some time now and starting to get a little frustrated with the lack of available time due work and family commitments. Frustration can be a bad thing as you start thinking about short cuts to carry out a particular task.
I had undercoated the hull with an Acrylic primer and after much discussion with members of my club, decided to do the whole model in Enamel. Okay, then the Acrylic primer must be removed to allow use of Enamel paints. I set up the hull, container of water and wet/dry paper then proceeded in rubbing back the primer. After about 30 minutes I noted this was going to take a long time as the primer fixed itself well to the resined hull.
I thought to myself, “Surely there must be an easier and faster way to remove this paint”.

MY BIG MISTAKE – why not use paint stripper. I applied the stripper to a small area and left for 10 seconds before scrapping it off, the paint came off easily. Okay, I’ll do a larger area and proceeded accordingly. Basically, I had most of the paint removed before noticing that the stripper had also removed (in patches) the resin over the fibreglass cloth. I stopped the use of the stripper and frantically tried cleaning any remaining residue.

THE END RESULT. The paint was removed but now the resin was damaged and in 3 areas, down to the fibreglass cloth. This is where the pain and headache set in and was close to giving it up altogether – no more modelling. I destroyed a perfectly good hull.

That evening the good lady tried to consul me and suggested to Ring John aka Bluebird. I barely said 6 words and John knew what I did and what the results were. It was very evident to john that I was upset but convinced me that it was repairable. John explained what I should look for on the hull and how to go about mending the problem. He was right, in several places, the stripper was still reacting with the resin and this area was soft. Basically, I had to dig out the resin and thoroughly clean afterwards. I did this and checked the hull the next day for more reaction. I checked the hull each evening after work for a week.

The hull was now stable with no more reaction with stripper and all soft areas removed. The next step was to sand all the resin back down to the fibreglass matting. I spent a whole weekend and each evening after working on the hull. I re-applied three coats of resin with a light sanding between each coat. This task became a lot harder now with P brackets, shafts etc protruding beneath the hull but I persisted.

This whole process seemed like months before it was ready for painting.


Martin du

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 02, 2010, 09:03:54 am
The hull now has been undercoated and top coats applied. Photo’s show how I used a GMC laser to mark the waterline on the hull – makes life a lot easier.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 02, 2010, 09:12:52 am
Hull now masked for bottom colour

Martin du

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 02, 2010, 09:15:12 am
Although not a perfect finish as previous, the hull does look good with the paint job.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 02, 2010, 09:18:22 am
                            Conclusion – NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use paint stripper on a resined hull.

 At this point I would like to thank John aka Bluebird, if it was not for his encouragement and help; I would not be modelling today. O0

And when you have made a big mistake and don’t know what to do – ask the question on the forum as there are plenty of people willing to help with sound advice.


Martin doon under :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: steve pickstock on May 02, 2010, 11:31:45 am
Martin, thanks for that. Niall and I were wondering what you had done in the pub on Thursday night. Very brave of you to share it with us. However it is my firmly held belief that everyone is allowed to do something dumb once in their lives. It's only a bad thing if you keep doing dumbsh!t.

And it looks fantastic now. look forwards to seeing the completed boat.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on May 02, 2010, 12:01:37 pm
What can I say my mate.   Hi there Martin.   It's looking brilliant - words of encouragement are one thing - but look what you have done!   One of the best hulls I have seen anywhere.    You can ring anytime - you dont need to try and destroy your hull to ring!  :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))

Speak to you soon - KEEP PLODDING ON - and when your model is sitting on the lake and your are getting hours of enjoyment from your model  -  you can pull the pin on the old grenade and think here goes mate....demolish if you dare!  {-) {-) {-) {-) %% %% %% only joking - you wont be sitting on the lake - you will be sitting at a safe distance cos of the motors etc., you are going to put in that there model - you may be looking at world speed records!!!

Speak to you soon!!

aye john
bluebird
from up here
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: cdsc123 on May 10, 2010, 09:25:55 pm
Looking amazing Martin, an absolutely brilliant job  :-))

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 16, 2010, 12:13:38 am
Thanks guys for your kind comments. :-))

Now that the aft superstructure has also been painted, I decided to spray some of the fittings that would be attached to this area. I decided to purchase a new mini compressor (1/3rd HP twin cylinder) and a couple of extra airbrushes. I have a large 12cfm compressor but for model work find the mini unit a lot easier and portable to work with.

Must admit, once the pressure setting is set, the pressure remains constant with no fluctuations.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: tassie48 on May 16, 2010, 12:34:51 am
Lucky sod mines all packed away for the shift back to Queensland could drop off the 1/48 TICO for a quick paint job on the way up for you to dust for me if you are nit to busy haha great work Martin tassie48
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 16, 2010, 01:19:25 am
After deciding which parts are to be sprayed, paint mixed, compressor set and gun ready. I used an old milk crate and a piece of plywood  to bring the set up to about chest high - I find this comfortable for spraying small items.

Today the temp is only about 15 degrees C and not an ideal temp for paint to dry with the amount of moisture in the air, but this problem has been solved.

Paint including resin moulds set best around 22 degrees C and to solve this problem, sometime ago I purchased on eBay the infamous " Aussie Pie Warmer". O0

What a great unit, can dry paint, keep your lunch warm and heat up your hands on those cold mornings. O0 {-) :-))

Martin doon under and warm hands.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 16, 2010, 01:21:36 am
Lucky 'xxx' mines all packed away for the shift back to Queensland could drop off the 1/48 TICO for a quick paint job on the way up for you to dust for me if you are nit to busy haha great work Martin tassie48

Hey Tassie, drop in any time :-))

Mdu
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 16, 2010, 01:26:43 am
Some bits fitted to aft superstructure. The cable ties worked well for holding raft containers to rack - Thanks Colin.

Mdu
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 16, 2010, 09:05:32 am
A few more pics showing current state of Aft Superstructure.

Martin doon under
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Gra on May 16, 2010, 10:51:27 am
Hi Martin,
Boat looking good .Surrey Park Navy day on 23 May.Hull would look good in clubhouse for display.

Keep up the great work.


Graham.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: dougal99 on May 16, 2010, 11:57:55 am
Today the temp is only about 15 degrees C and not an ideal temp for paint to dry with the amount of moisture in the air, but this problem has been solved.



That's positively balmy over here at the moment  ;D
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Perkasaman2 on May 17, 2010, 01:07:38 am
Hi Martin, great progress. I came across a stern picture of BB moored inboard of a German Ferocity class boat. You may already have seen it, but if not, then it may be useful.  :-)

http://www.schnellboot.net/de/bundesmarine-deutsche-marine/schnellboote/typ-153-brave-borderer-pfeil-strahl/004.jpg
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 28, 2010, 11:36:16 pm
Hi Martin, great progress. I came across a stern picture of BB moored inboard of a German Ferocity class boat. You may already have seen it, but if not, then it may be useful.  :-)

http://www.schnellboot.net/de/bundesmarine-deutsche-marine/schnellboote/typ-153-brave-borderer-pfeil-strahl/004.jpg

Thanks Perkasaman,

Another photo for the collection...keep em coming :-))

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on May 28, 2010, 11:42:47 pm
Hi Martin,
Boat looking good .Surrey Park Navy day on 23 May.Hull would look good in clubhouse for display.

Keep up the great work.


Graham.

Hi Graham,

I placed the boat in the car the previous night for display at the club for Navy Day. Woke up Sunday morning with a crook neck - could not turn left or right and unable to drive. Monday off work and down to Chiro for realignment.
Was really looking forward to Navy Day and all the other modellers showing up with some great models - will have to wait another 12 months for the next one. >>:-(

Martin du.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: barryfoote on May 29, 2010, 07:59:37 am
A superb build and thread Martin. I should have been out an hour ago, so am in trouble with "the long haired one" now!! Keep it up.  :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))

Barry
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Gra on May 31, 2010, 08:32:52 am
Hi Martin,
Sorry to hear about your neck.Hope things come good for you and we will  see your boat in the near future.

Graham.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: BillG on June 02, 2010, 03:10:44 pm
G'day Martin,

I've been out of the country for a while and wont be back till August, however, I've been following your build, impressed with the work on the BB. I'm glad you explained your booby on the hull. I'll file that away in my memory bank.

cheers
Bill
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 10, 2010, 10:19:38 am
Finally finished construction / painting of the Generator Exhaust assembly and fitted to aft superstructure.
Also made up some handrails as fitted around a hatch openings P & S.

The three Engine Exhaust outlets also fitted to Transom.

Mdu
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 10, 2010, 10:30:11 am
Either side of the aft superstructure are two boxes marked "C.R Vent". I have no idea what the purpose of these boxes but are very visible on my photo's of BB. The boxes have mesh fitted to one side and I have been unable to purchase mesh of the correct scale and size - so I had to make these as well.
For the mesh I used 0.5mm square strip and made up a panel 75mm x 45mm. A couple of pics showing my insanity %%

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 10, 2010, 10:39:13 am
After the mesh was completed and fitted to the CR Vent assemblies, 2 x hatches and 2 x BA Stowage boxes along with a Cordage reel were also constructed.

The finished items after painting.

Mdu
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 10, 2010, 11:16:06 am
Pictures showing exhaust and BA Stowage boxes fitted.

Mdu
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 10, 2010, 11:25:19 am
All that's needed to complete the aft superstructure (excluding Bofor) is the fitting of a handrail at the front and the construction/fitting of a compass mounted on the forward area (just aft of the shroud).

Pictures showing current status....

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Lt. Raen on June 10, 2010, 12:09:52 pm
WOW
what a great build excellent work mate

just one question, where do you get your plasticard from

Cheers, Tim
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 10, 2010, 12:43:20 pm
WOW
what a great build excellent work mate

just one question, where do you get your plasticard from

Cheers, Tim
G'Day Tim,

Glad you like the build. I buy all my profiles direct from Plastruct in the US - works out cheaper in the long run even with postage.

Good to see another Aussie. :-))

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Lt. Raen on June 10, 2010, 01:00:44 pm
Thanks for that Martin, have been on the look out for a good supplier for a while so will have a look at these guys next time i need any  :-))

 :} haha yeah not too many of us Aussies on here, seems to be a lot from the old motherland though lol

In good humour, Tim
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on June 10, 2010, 04:19:03 pm
Looking really good Martin. :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: pugwash on June 10, 2010, 05:41:17 pm
smashing job you are doing with your BB.  Takes me back to when I was a very young Sea Cadet, with 11 others
we got a trip out on her into the Solent and round the Isle of Wight.  Very wet, very fast but brilliant then
transferred by seaboat to HMS Brocklesby and four day journey to Grimsby. After that what could I do but
join up (as did 3 others) and spent the next 10 yrs on frigates and destroyers but never saw BB again

Pugwash
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Gra on June 11, 2010, 08:21:00 am
Hi Martin,
Looking very good keep up the good work.
For your info the council is about to extend and refurbish our clubhouse.In about 3 months clubhouse should be big enough to handle your Brave Borderer.

Graham.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Netleyned on June 11, 2010, 10:22:56 am
Pugwash
FYI
BB and Brave Swordsman were taken to Pembroke Dock in the early 70's to be used as targets on the Aberporth Range.
Obviously the gunnery/rocketry/torpedory were not up to much as they were sold off a few years later.
Swordsman has since been broken up but I'm not sure of the fate of BB

Yours aye

Ned
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: vintagent on June 11, 2010, 10:31:32 am
Am I right in thinking this is your first attempt at scratchbuilding?

Regards,
Vintagent
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 14, 2010, 06:13:22 am
Am I right in thinking this is your first attempt at scratchbuilding?

Regards,
Vintagent

Yes and No.

I have never used styrene or fibreglass prior to this model. All my current knowledge has been supplied through generous information donations and patience from experienced forum members. I have scratch build models mainly from Marine Plywoods, Balsa etc and have only in the past year or so attempting another boat model - though I have designed and built a lot of RC Gliders.


Ned,

Both Swordsman and Borderer were broken up - how sad <:(


Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on June 14, 2010, 06:21:57 am
Hi Martin,
Looking very good keep up the good work.
For your info the council is about to extend and refurbish our clubhouse.In about 3 months clubhouse should be big enough to handle your Brave Borderer.

Graham.

Great news.
If I bring BB now it will take up one of the 3 benches - a bit unfair to other members  {-) {-) {-) O0
Good to hear the council has finally approved the refurbish - including on site amenities - WOW - saves on a long walk O0

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: vintagent on June 14, 2010, 10:31:14 am
The Council????? Astonishing.
Over here they'd be more likely to shut you down!

That's a very neat job for someone new to the materials. 

Regards,
Vintagent
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 20, 2010, 01:42:37 pm
Time for an update.

I decided to leave the superstructure fittings and return to the hull. The transom needed some extra fittings for completion - these were made from 1.5mm brass and styrene tubing fitted to ends.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 20, 2010, 02:23:28 pm
After some lengthy discussions, it was decided that the rudder setup needed revising. With the possible speed capabilities, servo size and linkages including offset rudders - this area required upgrading.

First, with the possible loads applied to the three offset rudders, extra support would be required closer to the top of the rudder posts. For this a piece of 3mm ply spanning all 3 rudders was installed and epoxied to the transom with P38 around rudder tubes.

Second, due to loading, the rudders would operate more efficiently with a push-pull linkage setup.

Third, the existing rudder servo was rated at 4.8kg/cm which seemed a little under powered for the rudders. I purchased another servo but went a little overboard. The new servo has double ball bearings with metal gears and capable of handling loads of 24kg/cm. Yep you guessed it, its a steering servo for a 1/4 scale buggy.

Due to the size of this beast, new problems were encountered. First up I had to relocate where the servo was mounted - that wasn't too bad, next to the transom servo. After reading the information on the servo, it was noted that this beasty requires it's own power source as drain would be too severe on Rx battery - another discussion with Dave at Action and more bits supplied (battery pack, wiring harness, switch etc).

Check out the size of the Rudder Servo...

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on July 20, 2010, 02:37:04 pm
Next job was to construct 3 long ply trays to hold motor batteries (2 x 10 cell packs per motor) including a smaller tray for the rudder servo battery pack. 4 larger rectangular trays were constructed to hold SLA's used for ballasting.

Note the small tray between the larger trays at stern for rudder servo pack. The trays were made from 3mm marine ply with resin applied both sides and installed forward of the motors. Supports installed and supply pack trays screwed into place whilst ballast trays were only attached with one screw in case these needed repositioning.

Photo's tell the story better... O0


Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on July 20, 2010, 05:55:53 pm
Very neat Martin  :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on July 20, 2010, 11:31:45 pm
Wonderful job, Martin  :-)) :-)). I was feeling quite smug about my Armidale, but the level of detail you've incorporated into BB leaves me speechless - (and that's quite rare, apparently)  :D

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 16, 2010, 11:32:01 pm
Wonderful job, Martin  :-)) :-)). I was feeling quite smug about my Armidale, but the level of detail you've incorporated into BB leaves me speechless - (and that's quite rare, apparently)  :D

Peter.

Thanks Pete, but your Armidale turned out exceptionally well - wouldn't mind it in my stable :-))

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 16, 2010, 11:55:17 pm
Time to bring this build up to date once more.

It was time to see if this model floats and how much ballast would be required. Some time ago I purchased a stainless steel trough of about 2 metres long and set this up inside the shed. One of my work benches is 5.4 metres long so there was plenty of room to mount the tank/trough at one end and fill with water. Its a lot warmer tank testing indoors with the wood heater going this time of the year.

In she goes - gosh, it floats, :o now add superstructure........hmmmm needs a bit of weight added O0

BB sat quite well in the tank and almost at waterline - maybe just a little more weight ;)

One final test, is she watertight???

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 17, 2010, 12:24:42 am
In the last photo, the black SLA's are there for ballast only. The six long sticks are the batteries for each motor with another smaller pack aft between 2 SLA's being for the rudder servo. The only pack not in picture is the Rx 5 cell pack which will be mounted on the Electronics board.

I left the model in the tank for about three hours to check for leaks and unfortunately, noticed water ingress near the transom. I then spent the next 4 weeks chasing and repairing leaks. The main problem area was where I drilled into the transom to mount the transom flap hinges. After the paint was scrapped away, it became apparent  of a small gap between the hinges and transom - it seemed to take forever fixing the problem.

The sequence of events: identify water ingress area - repair -  place in tank - still leaking - out of tank - look again - another repair - let dry - back in tank - nope, that didn't fix it - try again -and so on.

After the last repair, BB was left in the tank for 28 hours - no signs of water inside the hull :-))

Martin du

Time to try it in a larger body of water - more updates tonight ;D O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 17, 2010, 06:40:18 am
I'm pleased to hear that you seem to have the leaking problem sorted, Martin. I had a leak in Armidale too, which only became apparent at the club sailing day when she was in the water for a couple of hours. It turned out to be a leak inside the bow thruster, and a poor motor to thruster-body seal. Hopefully it's now fixed.

I'm envious of your test tank, mine's the bath {:-{. If we were still living at the farm I'd have a swimming pool to test my models, but we have to put up with living at the beach  %)  {-)

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on August 17, 2010, 06:49:30 am
.

I'm envious of your test tank, mine's the bath {:-{. If we were still living at the farm I'd have a swimming pool to test my models, but we have to put up with living at the beach  %)  {-)

Peter.

Peter,
Don't be envious as i think Martins test tank is also a bath. {-) {-)
Water restrictions come to mind  %) %) O0 O0
Nice build though.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 17, 2010, 09:16:52 am

Peter,
Don't be envious as i think Martins test tank is also a bath. {-) {-)
Water restrictions come to mind  %) %) O0 O0
Nice build though.

I tried to use the bath as a test tank but BB was too long - wouldn't quite fit. The water to fill the tank is coming from 2 x 5000 Gallon tanks behind the shed and when I'm finished testing, I'll pump the water back into the big tanks.

A better view of my Test Tank on the bench. As you can see, there is still plenty of room for my 1:72 scale Prince of Wales Battleship (3200mm LOA).

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on August 17, 2010, 10:27:16 am

Martin,
Nice set up.  :-))
Envy  :((
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 17, 2010, 10:42:12 am
Okay, now that we have sorted out the water leaks and amount of ballast required, its time to think about electronics to make it go.

This bit is easy.

All I need to do is figure out how I want the boat to perform and any accessories that I wish to operate, then Phone Dave at ACTion O0 O0 O0

At this point I cannot thank Action Electronics enough for the work that was put into supplying all the goodies for this model. Also a BIG thanks to Pete Keirle aka PMK for that special MB Gizmo.
The customer service I received both from Dave at ACTion and Pete @ 'Almost All Stripboard Gadgets' was far beyond what you would expect, especially these days.
P98 ESC's, P40C Mixer, switches, batteries, chargers and all associated hardware etc including battery packs with made up leads. All I had to do was plug it all in.
Then there is the MB Gizmo. This special little device was designed and built by Pete at ASG. In a nutshell, when 50% throttle is reached or exceeded, the Transom Flap automatically relocates to a 3 degree down position.

I decided to mount the Electronic Shelf directly above the centre motor in order to keep all power leads as short as possible. I also wanted to be able to view the motors, plumbing etc . I mounted all the switches ESC's etc on a 6mm thick clear perspex board. All the switches were mounted along one edge  and all operated in the same direction. ie, Switches forward -  on, switches aft -  off

The Transom Flap Gizmo is mounted in the top left hand corner on the first pic. Note also the water cooling hardware fitted to the P98's.


Martin du

Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on August 17, 2010, 11:33:45 am
Martin
Make sure you have very tight connections between the flexible pipes and those brass tubes in the P98W cooling blocks. If any water drips into the ESC you'll get a cloud of steam as well as the Magic Smoke!
FLJ
(Looks impressive with all that kit in the one place, doesn't it?)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 17, 2010, 12:08:36 pm
Martin
Make sure you have very tight connections between the flexible pipes and those brass tubes in the P98W cooling blocks. If any water drips into the ESC you'll get a cloud of steam as well as the Magic Smoke!
FLJ
(Looks impressive with all that kit in the one place, doesn't it?)

Dave,
You have reminded me on several occasions about the water cooling tubes being tight or else. I'm starting to think that I should mount the P98's upside down - then the water can't drip in :embarrassed:

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on August 17, 2010, 12:18:02 pm
Being in Oz Martin I would have thought installing things upside down would come naturally.  :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 17, 2010, 12:30:38 pm
Good one Dicky :-))


With all the electronic bits installed, I made up a small shelf  on the hull sides with a screw mounted in the middle. The idea being the perspex shelf will sit here and be held on with a wing nut. To remove electronics, disconnect 5 leads and remove - easy for maintenance etc..

Okay everything installed, time to turn on power and see what happens.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 17, 2010, 12:51:57 pm
Hmmm,

Applying power to three motors in a boat that barely fits in a test tank {:-{ not a good idea. After I placed BB back in the tank (attempted to climb out when power applied) large amounts of bubble wrap placed at either end of tank to act as buffer. Second time power applied, tank now only half full  as I ended up drenched. Should leave this to a larger water supply. >:-o

Accidentally found a water hole close to home - actually had a whole lot more water in it since the last fire season. Council even erected a sign for locals not to remove water. Reasonable weather and wife in tow to take happy snaps at every angle with some not so welcomed

anyhow - a picture is better than words..... %) O0

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 17, 2010, 12:54:43 pm
more pics
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 17, 2010, 12:59:10 pm
and a few more...

notice the sign warning not to take water or else. :embarrassed:

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on August 17, 2010, 01:05:26 pm
Very nice Martin.

You seem to have a fairly low coaming, is it high enough to keep the water out ?

Also, what holds your superstructure on ?
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 17, 2010, 01:14:26 pm
All the photo's taken with the port and Starboard motors running only. I had a glitch with my Tx  and was unable to have centre motor off with the outboard motors. It appeared that the centre motor was operating ahead of the outboard motors, ie when the Pt and Stb motors stationary, centre motor running in forward....will sort this out later..

I did find that even with only the outboard motors operating with the mixer,  the model was able to turn on its own axis....impressive and created a nice bow wave.

Water cooling was not connected but I can see that this will need to be attached in the future. I'm having my doubts whether the water will be picked up and sent through ESC's and motors given the long runs of tubing etc.

Do any modelers have experience with water pumps for cooling etc.???

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 17, 2010, 01:21:38 pm
Very nice Martin.

You seem to have a fairly low coaming, is it high enough to keep the water out ?

Also, what holds your superstructure on ?

Dicky,
In actual fact - there is no coaming, only a ledge for the superstructure to sit on. My original thoughts were to stick some very thin rubber down beneath the superstructure to act as a seal. Also to have some sort of locking mechanism to hold structure down.

With today's operation, no rubber seal and no locking mechanism. The structure was a tight fit and no water ingress. I had to give it a bit of a jerk to remove.

Martin....finally with a boat on the water :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on August 17, 2010, 06:06:32 pm
The superstructure on my PT boat was a tight fit with a high coaming--------- it fell off on a turn, never to be seen again. <:(
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on August 17, 2010, 07:09:37 pm
hi ya Martin

hey the model is super dooper - big question?  Did the model come up on the plane on full power?  Not take long to sort out the centre motor problem you have, now that I know you have a P40 inside.

aye
john
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 17, 2010, 11:26:08 pm
Very impressive Martin, she looks great on the water, and seems to track well going astern too. It's a great feeling when the model you've spent so much time on actually floats and, even better, goes where you want it to, when you want it to  {-)

Nice pond  :-)) How did you "accidentally" find it? :o

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 19, 2010, 12:33:53 am
hi ya Martin

hey the model is super dooper - big question?  Did the model come up on the plane on full power?  Not take long to sort out the centre motor problem you have, now that I know you have a P40 inside.

aye
john


In short John - No.

Not being able to run all 3 motors was a bu**er {-). My suspicions of a faulty Tx came to bear, as the centre motor cut out at full throttle and battery output fluctuated even though I had it on charge overnight.
After speaking with FLJ, the centre P98, switch No. 4 was activated to apply a small amount of lag to centre motor.  In conjunction with another Tx it appears that the problem may be fixed although I will know definitely after all batteries recharged.

The faulty Tx is a Hitec laser 4 on Mode 2. I have been using this radio for many years mainly with my gliders (see ribbons on antenna). I have another Hitec laser 4 but on Mode 1. I hope its an easy job to switch the configuration over to Mode 2 - have you had any experience O0

My you, I have no shortage of Tx and Rx's: besides the 2 x Hitec Laser 4's, I also have 2 x Hobbyking 2.4G, 4 channel Tx's including 8 x int/ext Rx's similar to Spektrum Rx's. I got these last year when the club (TF72) acquired a whole bunch at a very cheap price.
Having the need for extra channels for my F3B gliders, I purchased the complete setup, Spektrum DX7 - 2.4 G radio. Apparently the family was aware that I wanted a new radio so, a week later I was given another DX7 complete ie, Rx's, servos, batteries, charger etc.......hmmmm %%

I have radios coming out of my orifices  %) %) O0 :-))

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 19, 2010, 01:41:15 am
Very impressive Martin, she looks great on the water, and seems to track well going astern too. It's a great feeling when the model you've spent so much time on actually floats and, even better, goes where you want it to, when you want it to  {-)

Nice pond  :-)) How did you "accidentally" find it? :o

Peter.

Thanks Pete for your comments. I agree, it is nice to see a model actually doing what you command specially when its taken so long to get it to this stage. I know you can have a nice Bow Wave, but do I qualify for a nice Astern wave O0 {-) {-) {-)

As the sign reads "Water Hole" - it ain't no pond {-)

The roadway in the background is the Calder Highway and to the right, is an overpass just out of picture. The Calder Hwy basically runs between Melbourne and Mildura and the hill in the background looking south is Mt Macedon.
The waterhole is on the left of the Melbourne Inbound lane as you go under the Woodend/Carlsruhe overpass. Located on a long bend alongside the highway, the waterhole is difficult to spot from the Highway. On the weekend, I was rostered on to take the Carlsruhe CFA firetruck out for training and a weekly run. On the return leg back to the station, instead of going onto the Highway from woodend as I usually do, I decided to go the back way and cross the overpass - that's when I spotted the waterhole O0.

In the last month we have had far amount of rain and the waterhole is now really huge where its normally the size of a backyard swimming pool. The council uses the waterhole to water roadside vegetation and can only have water removed for firefighting purposes, ie our firetruck. Hopefully the water will remain at this level for some as its really convenient with its location being 10 minutes from home...

Martin du


Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Gra on August 19, 2010, 07:01:43 am
Finally on the water Martin,a nice feeling of satisfaction.
Well done.

Graham
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 19, 2010, 11:22:50 pm
Martin, I notice you have two of the Hobby King 2.4Ghz 4 channel radios. I bought one of the 6 channel models for only A$60 delivered, and it's a great piece of gear  :-))

I have a fresh water lake only 200 metres from my door, but the problem is that it's usually very busy with swimmers, kayaks and sailing craft, as it's right alongside a caravan park. It can also become very choppy, so I don't use it as a sailing venue very often, although in winter it's not too bad.

The photos below show an aerial view I took back in 2003, our house is below the wing and not visible, and my 3 youngest grandsons sailing 3 of my boats in the lake in May this year. Conditions were perfect that day.

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 19, 2010, 11:58:09 pm
Hi Pete

Pic No.2 Is that the fresh water lake beside the caravan park or where you sail now - looks huge.

Hobbyking radios are only 4 channels. I got 2 Tx's and 8 Rx's very cheap - might use them when I get a pusher on the water - think may be ideal for my 3 nephews that appear to be the same age as your grandchildren

This waterhole I'm sailing in is ideal. Vic Roads have built many mudholes alongside the highway at each overpass - a good source of water for irrigation and emergency use. We have had a fair bit of rain this last month and the waterhole has turned into a nice size lake/pond. The only visitor I had was a council truck checking that I wasn't pilfering the water. When they saw the model, the lads waived and said thats okay and left.
Only hope the water level is the same when the warmer weather approaches.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 20, 2010, 10:51:02 pm
Martin, the lake in the photo is not the one our club sails in, but it is near us. As I said, it's a great lake but usually far too busy for model boating, which is a pity, as it's nice and handy, and it's fresh water.

I use my HK radio quite a lot, it has excellent range, but quite hard on battery usage. I bought some rechargeable batteries from Hobby City for mine. It is compatible with a Futaba charger, so I can charge them in the radio.

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 20, 2010, 11:03:30 pm

I use my HK radio quite a lot, it has excellent range, but quite hard on battery usage. I bought some rechargeable batteries from Hobby City for mine. It is compatible with a Futaba charger, so I can charge them in the radio.

Peter.

Pete,
Did you buy a made up pack or loose batteries for your Tx. I cannot see a connector inside the battery compartment. Thanks for the battery usage info, will look for some rechargeable types  :-))

Martin
Pity about the pond
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 21, 2010, 10:34:41 pm
Martin, I did actually make up a pack myself, soldering a connector on to the radio circuit board, but the pack would not fit due to the shrink wrap, so I had to dismantle it and revert to loose batteries.

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Ticonderoga on August 22, 2010, 11:39:50 am
Hi Martin,

It must be a great feeling to have your boat performing in the water. Well done, I am insanely jealous. :-))

She looks just great. Well done.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 23, 2010, 12:38:37 am
Hi Martin,

It must be a great feeling to have your boat performing in the water. Well done, I am insanely jealous. :-))

She looks just great. Well done.


Thanks Tico,
Yes its great to get the hull wet but sorting out a few setup problems at the moment. It's taken about 2 years just to get here. Will be building a Pusher tug shortly in case BB stops in the middle of the waterhole. I need to get back to making fittings, paint deck green etc as I have a couple of Battleships needing attention.
In the meantime, I'm attempting to learn how to play golf - have developed a real Aussie gut since giving up smoking. Have found golf a good way to let off steam when modelling problems get out of hand %% %) :-))

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Ticonderoga on August 24, 2010, 12:26:09 am
Hya Martin.

Good luck with that golf thing >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

I find scratch building easier and less stressful :}
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 24, 2010, 12:34:12 am
Hya Martin.

Good luck with that golf thing >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

I find scratch building easier and less stressful :}

It's for when things don't quite go to plan {:-{ - rather than kick and abuse model, <*< pick up golf club thingy (pending on how angry or frustrated you are determines which numbered stick to use) then beat the crap out of that little white ball   O0 >>:-( O0 >>:-( O0 >>:-( O0 >>:-( O0

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Ticonderoga on August 24, 2010, 04:49:23 pm
Hee Hee I can see how that would work :-))

By my reckoning your are burning the midnight oil a tad....
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 24, 2010, 05:30:31 pm
Had another go in the waterhole yesterday.
After about 10 minutes, got a little close to the shallows and got stuck in the long grass beneath the water. Managed to get out then the model stopped all together. P & S  25A fuses blown. Checked the props and they looked like 2 fur balls (wish I had the camera) - no wonder fuses blew. No spares so I played with model on centre motor only - after 15 minutes, motor and ESC getting a bit hot. Time to call it quits for the day and start water cooling plumbing installation...

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: nick_75au on August 28, 2010, 01:29:08 pm
That is looking to be an impressive build, only read the lasts page, will get back to read the rest of it, its a similar size to my Kingfisher I guess which is a 1:10 scale 58 footer. It has 4 of the Darke Horse 4:1 motors coupled together to 2 shafts by belt. Must get back to it, currently building a 1:6 Ski boat which will sport a 427ci Ford.

Off to watch the F1 qualifying

Nick
(http://s3.postimage.org/19h1J.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq19h1J)

(http://s3.postimage.org/19Iti.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq19Iti)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 28, 2010, 11:06:37 pm
Hi Nick,

Your Kingfisher and my BB would look great together. Your power train is awesome - should be able to pull a skier on its own without the 427. {-) {-) {-)

I have just added all the plumbing for the watercooling and have mounted water outlets just below the transom exhaust shelf. Still uncertain whether the normal gravity feed will do the job, but I plan to take BB to the waterhole for another tryout today. During my last outing I bent one of the rudders which has now been replaced  - I have also modified the rudder linkages once more as the last time out, the rudder throw appeared a bit excessive..

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: derekwarner on August 28, 2010, 11:57:58 pm
Hey Martin......I am getting very scared  :embarrassed: looking at all of those silicone water cooling tubes without any form apparent of additional securing ..... >>:-( >>:-( ....good luck....Derek
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 29, 2010, 12:18:39 am
Hey Martin......I am getting very scared  :embarrassed: looking at all of those silicone water cooling tubes without any form apparent of additional securing ..... >>:-( >>:-( ....good luck....Derek

Derek, Do you mean additional clips etc to hold silicone tubes on. If so. I don't believe them to be necessary as the hoses are damm tight now.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: jonny shoreboy on August 29, 2010, 01:12:48 am
Still a couple of electrical ties couldn't hurt though...
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on August 29, 2010, 11:26:34 am
Still a couple of electrical ties couldn't hurt though...

Point taken. Thanks for comments.  :-))

Had a 40 minute run down the local waterhole before I spun off 2 props and bent the third. >:-o BB is currently (or was) fitted with 3 x 50mm props - at full speed boat will not come up to plain and thats with no ballast onboard. Think I might order 60mm or 65mm props instead.
After todays run, although ESC's and motors do get a bit warm, have decided water cooling is not essential and will be removing plumbing.

I'm intending to put BB aside for a while as I feel that I have spent far too much time on this model and need a break (frustration set in). I have a Fleetscale Battleship and a scratchbuilt Battleship that need my attention plus  looking at a Tug boat kit.

So, on that note -  HASTA LA VISTA, BABY...............I'LL BE BACK !!


Martin down under and out
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on August 29, 2010, 04:25:59 pm
Martin I would leave the plumbing until you have tried your new larger props as your motors will have to work harder to turn them. :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on August 29, 2010, 08:10:17 pm
Hi there Martin
You know the old saying ‘NIL DISPARANDUM’ some things are sent to try one.  If it was a walk in the park we wouldn’t enjoy it – hey isn’t that a load of ‘cobblers’ 
Something isn’t right here my mate, in theory, those dark horse motors should tear the bottom out of the model.  It should surely come up on the plane if you have had no ballast on it?  Unless the model has put a surprising amount of weight on.
First things first:
Have you tried?
a)   Removing the speed controllers and mixer out of the equation and coupled up the motors directly to your battery?   That is a fully charged – and have a listen to the motor note – and if possible try an RPM test.    Then, refit the speed controller without the mixer and try running the motor again through the speed controller – to top revs – to find out if she achieves the same top revs with the speed controller as she does without.   The reason for this is that the speed controller may be starving the motor of ‘top-end’ performance.
b)   If the speed controllers are okay and are not starving the motors – make up a triple lead from your speed controllers to your RX – thus you are doing away with the mixer unit.   All three speed controllers will respond the same to the stick movement on your transmitter to see if you still get top end.
c)   When you put the model in the watering hole  was there any sign of cavitation on the props at full bore?   Sometimes you can loose top end speed drastically from the prop at the top end of speed through the prop cavitating.  The way to test for this is to hold the boat by the back-end securely next time you are at the watering hole and slowly move the throttle stick to full power.  At lower revs you will feel the props biting, but, as you get to 3rd to top end you will feel the power begin to drop-off and the boat will tend to pulse and you will get a lot of aerated water from the back end.
d)   What voltage are you running the dark horses at?   If I recall correctly, I think you said you may have been running on 18.4 or 18.?   Instead of increasing the prop diameter, how about increasing the voltage instead to say 22 – 24 volts – I am sure the dark horses will handle that.
Yes, last thing, rip the cooling out – sometimes it is best to let the motors run warm-to-slightly hot – don’t forget brushed electric motors run at their most efficient when warm to hot.

Also, Martin, did you try and move all of the controls onto one stick on your transmitter, throttle & rudder in other words? If so, did it improve the mixer set up?
Aye
But don’t don’t give up mate.......just about cracked it.
John
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Gra on September 02, 2010, 10:42:41 am
Hi Martin
Stay with it,step back and have a break.
I plan to build a 1/16 scale Whaleback Air Sea Rescue next year.Company for BB.
Sounds like good advice from Bluebird.

Gra
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on September 02, 2010, 11:13:14 am
Hi Martin
Stay with it,step back and have a break.
I plan to build a 1/16 scale Whaleback Air Sea Rescue next year.Company for BB.
Sounds like good advice from Bluebird.

Gra
G'Day Gra,

Yep. good advice as usual from BB about BB {-) {-)

I need 3 new props seeing that 2 of them are at the bottom of the waterhole. Had a look at the Raboesch props but cannot remember what type 3 bladers I used. According to listing on Cornwalls site, the 3 different type of props are all low rpm types......confusion has set in once more {:-{

Mdu
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on September 02, 2010, 11:22:46 am
Martin
JD recommends Raboesch 'Type A' 3-bladers - and 50mm is too small for those 3:1 geared monsters motors. New P40C and a 4-way splitter should be with you any day now.
FLJ
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on September 02, 2010, 11:34:34 am
Martin
JD recommends Raboesch 'Type A' 3-bladers - and 50mm is too small for those 3:1 geared monsters motors. New P40C and a 4-way splitter should be with you any day now.
FLJ

Thanks FLJ. Type A - 3 bladers - What size do you think I should try? I'm fairly certain that the 50mm props were cavitating as John suggests - looking forward to the new bits arrival..

Thanks again for the info,

Martin
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on September 02, 2010, 07:30:27 pm
good doy thore my friend Martin doon under :-)

Just been looking right through the build to check up on the props that you used on this model; although the actual diameter of the propeller at 50 mm looks about right for scale; the actual surface area of the blade or the props you used looks small?

So, to compensate, you could go up to about a 60 - 65 mm diameter; prop - Dont want to go to big cos you dont want to begin to put excessive load on the motors, cos then consequences will be shorter running times etc., etc.

See you on SKYPE my mate  :-)) to discuss further.

aye
john
bluebird
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Shipmate60 on September 02, 2010, 09:49:31 pm
Martin,
What rpm do those motors run at?
With a 3:1 reduction g/box those props shouldn't let them break into a sweat.
But as John says there isnt a great blade area or pitch so you would need plenty of rpm to drive her.
It might be cavitating but would take quite a few revs to do that with those props.

Bob
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: pugwash on September 02, 2010, 09:58:05 pm
 Hi Martin,  Something in back of my mind seems to think Vosper Thorneycroft got round the cavitation
problem by using high revving but small propellers - I don't know if it would work in a scaled down state
but I dont see why not.

Geoff
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Shipmate60 on September 02, 2010, 10:02:49 pm
The props on the full size ship were quite small but had a large blade area and almost 45 degree pitch.

Bob
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on September 03, 2010, 08:41:24 am
The Darke Horse catalogue gives the following figures for the output shaft speed:-

3:1 gearbox: 9330RPM @ 24v; 10880RPM @ 28v
4:1 gearbox: 6700RPM @ 24v; 8150RPM @ 28v.

John Darke recommends using 55mm brass 3 or 4 blade props with the 4:1 version. Hope this helps.
Personally I wouldn't pay too much attention to making the props look scale-size; performance is what matters most (and the things are under the water anyway).
FLJ
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on September 03, 2010, 10:04:25 am
Taking into consideration the cost of props (not cheap for three).

What size props do you recommend  - I was thinking Type "A" 60mm or 65mm three blade props-  Hope to travel down south tomorrow and purchase some new props.

By the way, these motors are fitted with the 3:1 gearbox

I'm not fussy with how many blades or what size just as long as this boat goes a bit quicker - Ive seen tugs move faster in the water O0

Mdu
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on September 03, 2010, 11:22:45 am
PM sent.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on September 03, 2010, 12:09:45 pm
PM sent.

PM received, PM sent

Mdu
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on September 03, 2010, 01:31:40 pm
hi ya there Martin Doon Under

After looking at the specs of Dark Horse motors, I myself, don't rate em very well.  Plenty of tork obviously through the gear box but no revs there, especially on 24 volts.  To get your boat up on the plane; you should be looking at somewhere between 15000 and 20000 rpm - hindsight should have used Graupner/Mtroniks.  You will have to go to 60 mm props minimum.

Anyway, its up to your goodself my mate.

Another cuppa tea  :D
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: pugwash on September 16, 2010, 02:04:44 pm
Martin I don't know whether these will be any help to you.

Geoff
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Perkasaman2 on September 29, 2010, 08:00:44 pm
Another BB clip Martin (with an impressive triple sound track).                            :-)

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=36057
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: gbolddak on April 12, 2011, 04:16:40 pm
Hi Martin,
I'm really very interested in seeing how you get on with this one!!  In particular how much power you end up having to provide.  Based on my 30" one that consumes around 45 watts to get on the plane and using the scale cubed rule, I guess you'll need around 400 watts total power from your three motors.  I'm not convinced about this rule of thumb so hopefully your experience can help.

Fascinating ........ and very well done.  I'm learning as you go along, so please keep up the posting  :)

Thanks
Iain

hi I would sujest 3 900 would be more than enogh power and with a low comsumtion 2 12v 9amphr would kive you long running time
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: ooyah/2 on June 27, 2011, 09:07:01 pm
Hi Martin,
I have been watching your build of Brave Borderer and must compliment you on your building skill and attention to detail.
Many years ago ( about 30 ) I built a B.B. from model maker plans to a scale of 3/8" to 1 ft but as the plan had no details other than hull lines I found a great deal of info on PRESEDENT PERKASA's booklet on their model.
It originally had an I.C. engine in it but as the Glasgow Parks Dept band I.C's it lay in the loft for many years.
I have always been a steam enthusiast but recently have taken up as a diversion fast electric, so she was resurrected from the loft , cleaned up and a brushless motor installed.
As I am not a very good boat builder ( rather cut metal and machine engines ) I have been reluctant to post, but as it's very much stand off ( 50ft) don't look too close.
A club member recently videod it so here is the link to You-tube (  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2FxmJ20mkk )  and some pics of the boat.
I see that you havn't posted your progress recently so how about an up date.
George.
(http://s1.postimage.org/14heq0ux0/BRAVE_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/14heq0ux0/)

(http://s1.postimage.org/14hmzpldw/BRAVE_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/14hmzpldw/)

(http://s1.postimage.org/14htluzd0/Plan_view_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/14htluzd0/)

(http://s1.postimage.org/14hwwxock/Battery_tray_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/14hwwxock/)

(http://s1.postimage.org/14i3j32bo/Brushless_geared_motor_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/14i3j32bo/)

(http://s1.postimage.org/14if3uhs4/Deck_joint.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/14if3uhs4/)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: treeboa on July 08, 2011, 11:12:58 pm
what a cracking thread, many years ago a lad i knew built a big `perky` after seeing my 1/24 scale, times and attitudes were a bit different to now and his had a pair of modded and watercooled chainsaw engines in it, i have a fond memory of laying on it adjusting his throttle linkages while it was underway  %%, once i had done that and got off it was given a handfull of ooomph, it shrieked off up the lake sounding like a kamikazi milkfloat, left my 65 powered 50 inch perkasa in its wake, main thing was at speed it refused to have a decent turn rate and had to be throttled right back to turn it around
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: pugwash on July 17, 2011, 07:03:01 am
Martin - any updates on BB and KGV was really enjoying the builds.

Geoff
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: CLASHED on August 04, 2011, 08:03:36 pm
as above  :-)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Martin13 on January 25, 2012, 11:11:56 am
Thanks for all the kind comments and prodding by many to get back to BB. Leg is sort-of heeling after break but impossible to launch models without help from others.
Have also been tied up with commitments to get "Task Force 72 Fleet Base Victoria" up and running and can say we have Albert Park Lake as our permanent sailing venue. For all the European and UK based members, you may know of the Lake as its in the middle of the Australian F1 GP track.

BB - as you are aware, I painted BB in its original paint scheme of "Light Admiralty Grey" and as time went on I grew to dislike the colour - it just didn't look right. I mixed up some AP507C (HMS Vanguard) and Light Weatherworks Grey (Arkeigh Burke DDG) and came up with a shade of grey which looked great for a model of this size, then re-painted BB. I took the model down to the Lake and my fellow sailing  members thought BB looked the part.

The main battery box assembly  has been moved and now installed between motors and transom with the 4 ballast batteries removed altogether - I have also installed 60mm props.

Now the bad news -  the motors installed are only pulling around 4200 rpm - clearly not enough to get this beast on the plane. Later on (much later on ) when finances are improved, Ill see about getting some 12V Graupner or similar motors.

Currently I have 4 other models on the building board plus a couple of gliders all wanting my attention but intend to spend most time on BB and USS Lassen DDG..

I'll post some pics in the near future and thanks again for all the kind comments and by all means, post any relevent info etc here on this thread..

Martin doon under :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: pugwash on January 25, 2012, 12:55:44 pm
Martin nice to see BB is back on the slipway again

Geoff
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on January 26, 2012, 12:12:30 am
Good to hear from you again, Martin. I hope the leg continues to improve and you are soon back modelling.

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: chandler on February 26, 2012, 09:38:39 pm
i really like your build and technique u are a true inspiration, i hope i get enough knowledge to some day build my own like that  :-)) :-))
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: martin13 on July 12, 2012, 11:27:07 am
HELLO ok2

Must post some pics - no excuse for not doing so - think its gonna rain for 40 nights and 40 days down ere'

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: DickyD on July 12, 2012, 01:29:38 pm
Hi Martin

An update would not go amiss.

Not a good idea to talk about rain in UK at the moment.   >>:-( >>:-(
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on July 12, 2012, 11:51:04 pm
Must post some pics - no excuse for not doing so - think its gonna rain for 40 nights and 40 days down ere'
Definitely, Martin - the pics that is O0 As for the rain - it seems that it has already rained for 40 days and 40 nights here. Ever since we moved back to the farm I've been ankle deep in mud. Thank goodness for Wellington boots {-)

Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on July 13, 2012, 12:31:39 am
No Sunshine up here either  <:( <:(
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: BrianB6 on July 13, 2012, 10:08:07 am
Nor down this way either.  <:(
We are supposed to go to the sunshine coast sometime but whats the point?
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: John W E on July 13, 2012, 10:13:43 am
HELLO ok2

Must post some pics - no excuse for not doing so - think its gonna rain for 40 nights and 40 days down ere'

Martin du
Well long time no see my mate
nice to see you  back  :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))

aye
john
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: martin13 on July 15, 2012, 12:28:04 pm
Strange this website - this is my second post - pretty clever I got all those pics on my first post :D

Just before I busted my leg, I took BB out to the waterhole for another sail - not much changed, still cannot get to plane, then all of a sudden she went very slow indeed.
After sometime my model eventually floated back to the shore and I lifted BB out of the water to notice that I spun off 2 props and broke the third {:-{ >>:-( >>:-(

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: martin13 on July 15, 2012, 12:52:19 pm
Located just below the 3 exhaust outlets on the transom, a shelf with 2 vertical panels either side is fitted. From the top of the transom down to this shelf are 2 pieces of brass 2mm thick. I had to cut these off and relocate them as they were fitted inboard of the vertical fins instead of outboard.

Can you see where they were once fitted? The holes are still visible  ;)

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: martin13 on July 15, 2012, 01:19:13 pm
Before the deck gets its paint job, the torpedo's and fuel tank supports need to be fitted to the deck. After I marked out the location according to the plan the torpedo and fuel tanks mounting plates were fitted using 6.3mm x 1.5mm Evergreen Strip. On these strips I then drilled 2mm holes evenly spaced (most times) for mounting plugs.

Although the tanks and torpedo's will not be fitted, this detail is essential on a large model otherwise the deck will look bare.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: martin13 on July 16, 2012, 09:46:10 am
Next task was to fit the Brass Handrails to the forward superstructure.
Here I used 2mm Brass Rod and some fittings I purchased from Cornwall's.

Must admit, I am pleased with the results. O0 O0

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: martin13 on July 16, 2012, 10:53:30 am
I decided it was time to put some paint down on the deck seeing the weather was nice a sunny. I took my time in masking the deck surroundings and pleased with the results - now for paint :-))

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: martin13 on July 16, 2012, 11:57:38 am
Remove the tape and masking paper, then fit superstructure - looks not bad O0

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: martin13 on July 16, 2012, 12:01:27 pm
Now to locate and glue down those lockers that took forever to build...

Martin du :-)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: nick_75au on July 16, 2012, 12:57:14 pm
Looks fantastic,  :-))

you must of hit something substantial in the dam to do that sort of damage  :o I maglles a prop like that once, it was a steel frame(boat stand) that the prop hit when I inadvertently bumped the throttle.

Nick
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Ticonderoga on July 25, 2012, 05:08:51 am
Hi Martin, looking good, pity about the underwater damage  :((

Just wondering how you get those nice even bends in the 2mm brass rods that you use for handrails and the like?

Andrew
 :-) :-)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: martin13 on December 28, 2012, 08:47:03 pm
Andy  - good to hear from you once more.

Bending Brass rod - I actually used various sizes of PVC tubing or metal lids from glass jars. Find the correct radius required from collection of tubes and lids then clamp one end of brass and slowly bend to the required length etc. Tweak by hand till correct shape is achieved.

Hope this helps.

Martin du
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: martin13 on December 28, 2012, 08:54:30 pm
 In the past number of months, I had some emails/pm's sent re this build and HMS Vanguard.

Sorry for not following up but since the Mayhem meltdown and my own computer problems - ALL correspondence has disappeared - please try again.

This build has been on hold whilst I completed my Tug build. Next will be finishing off Vanguard and then back to this model - don't worry "I'll be Back".

Martin doon under O0
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: Peter Fitness on December 28, 2012, 09:06:37 pm
It's good to hear from you again, Martin O0  Don't forget the photos of whatever you are currently building.


Peter.
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: bovril10 on August 31, 2013, 02:30:17 pm
Just stumbled across this thread. Fantastic project and one that I am sharing as far as the build. 4 years in the making so far and no-where as detailed, my version based on records of P153.

Commissioned 17th October 1967 in the Royal Malaysian Navy as P153 KD Pendekar (Swordsman).
Converted to training vessel May 1976, renamed PT107 KD Ikan Pari (Stingray).
De commissioned 10th March 1984 and later sunk whilst being used as a Naval gunnery target.

Some photos, a lot has been added or modified since these were taken.
http://www.modelboats.co.uk/albums/member_album.asp?a=13148 (http://www.modelboats.co.uk/albums/member_album.asp?a=13148)
1st sea trials. Disaster ! 3 x 850 motors running at 12 volt 55mm 4 bladed prop. Turning circle awful. Next trial going to be on 3 x 900 motors at 22.2 volt 45mm 2 blade racing prop. Bigger rudders fitted !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT1kkoAVyy0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT1kkoAVyy0)
My 1/24 scale Precedent kit which inspired me to go bigger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8X10GLj7dE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8X10GLj7dE)
Smoke generator installed and testing. Needs tinkering so it doesn't look like an engine fire !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=v8qhUu-5bY0&gl=GB (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=v8qhUu-5bY0&gl=GB)
 
 
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: bovril10 on August 31, 2013, 02:44:35 pm
Forgot to ask on my last post.......erm.....would someone lend me 300,000 euros ?
http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boats%20for%20sale/Ex%20british%20Fast%20Vessel.pdf (http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boats%20for%20sale/Ex%20british%20Fast%20Vessel.pdf)
Title: Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on August 31, 2013, 10:31:15 pm
Forgot to ask on my last post.......erm.....would someone lend me 300,000 euros ?
http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boats%20for%20sale/Ex%20british%20Fast%20Vessel.pdf (http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boats%20for%20sale/Ex%20british%20Fast%20Vessel.pdf)

That will be collection only O0 O0 {-) {-)