Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: andi4x4 on April 03, 2008, 02:03:07 am
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Ahoy Shipmates !
Newbie here with a new build Brave Borderer on a 36" fibreglass hull.
I have just started building from the Model Maker plans that were supplied with the hull. I first purchased this kit about 15 years ago and began building, then lost interest. Over the years the hull has been re-used a number of times on "pleasure craft" builds that I have done, but, now I am building the BB proper as I have just recently moved to the Isle of Man and discovered that the model boat club here meet on a pond within walking distance of my house !
But, I have a few questions-
I was wondering if any of you could post some photos your own BB's - particularly the transom flap and exhaust flap details - I would like to incorporate working exhaust flaps and transom flap into my model. I am not building a fully true scale model - I have neither the skills nor time ( nor the patience ! ) to do a fully scale build - but, if it looks the part ten feet away on the water I will be happy !
I am also looking for some Bofors for it. I have seen the Italeri kits in 1/35 scale - they seem like good value ( and appear to include the gunner and co, too ) but i have also seen some 1/32 scale guns on a website - which do you think would be the best size for the boat I am building ? The hull I am using is 35 inches x 9 1/2 inches - ( 1/32 or 1/35 scale ? )
Also, I have set three propshafts into the hull - currently set up with 30mm scale brass props and direct drive from three Speed 600 motors, running in parallel from a single ESC and single 7.2v NiMH buggy/car type battery pack of 3000mah or higher. Now, in the past I have run this hull with a single 50mm 'X' prop and single Speed 600 ( watercooled ), running through a 2:1 reduction gearbox, single ESC and single 9.6v sub'C' type pack with no problems, a good turn of speed and about 10-15 mins duration from 1500mah pack. The current three motor,three 30mm prop, direct drive system is quite a bit slower and much shorter duration - 7-8 mins from a 3000mah pack. I expected a drop in speed due to the change of prop type, but this is a considerably bigger drop than I was expecting, and the duration is also disappointing. My questions are, therefore -
1) is a single pack and single ESC not enough for three speed 600's on direct drive ?
2) is it the direct drive that is the issue - should I go back to having a 2:1 reduction on the motors ?
3) should I be thinking about a higher voltage - e.g 9.6v or even 12v ?
4) or should I be thinking about a twin or even single motor set-up running through a custom reduction gearbox to all three shafts ?
Any and all advice would be warmly welcomed !
All the best
Andi
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The Scale is 1:32 give or take a smidgin as the actual hull was 94feet. O0
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Ahoy Shipmates !
Newbie here with a new build Brave Borderer on a 36" fibreglass hull.
I have just started building from the Model Maker plans that were supplied with the hull. I first purchased this kit about 15 years ago and began building, then lost interest. Over the years the hull has been re-used a number of times on "pleasure craft"
But, I have a few questions-
I was wondering if any of you could post some photos your own BB's - particularly the transom flap and exhaust flap details - I would like to incorporate working exhaust flaps and transom flap into my model. I am not building a fully true scale model - I have neither the skills nor time ( nor the patience ! ) to do a fully scale build - but, if it looks the part ten feet away on the water I will be happy !
I am also looking for some Bofors for it. I have seen the Italeri kits in 1/35 scale - they seem like good value ( and appear to include the gunner and co, too ) but i have also seen some 1/32 scale guns on a website - which do you think would be the best size for the boat I am building ? The hull I am using is 35 inches x 9 1/2 inches - ( 1/32 or 1/35 scale ? )
Any and all advice would be warmly welcomed !
All the best
Andi
Andi,
First, as DickyD stated, your model is 1:32 scale - important if you wish to buy fittings.
There are a few completed builds on this forum with pics - use the search facility - if you have no luck - pm Martin Mayhem, he knows where everything is :D
As this hull has been used as other models in its life and you are not going to build as true scale, forget the transom flap. If the flap is not set correctly you will lose even more power (a variation of 1 degree will effect performance), as another member found out somewhere on this forum....
Exhaust flaps - as modelers will tell you, once you put your model in the water they appear to shrink in size. Keeping that in mind, make your flaps, but not working flaps. A lot of work but will never see them.
40mm Bofors - PM Stavros re your request - you may be surprised how he can help you
Last, re your questions on electrics. Cut and paste your question and post under "Electric & All Things Black Art" the lads there will have more information than you can absorb......but they are good O0
And from me - great to see another member having a go at BB and looking forward to seeing pics of your build....
Hope this has been of some help
Martin doon under :) :) :)
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Hi Andi,
Use this link to see pikkies of my 1:35 Brave boat, amongst which are the sort of shots you were looking for.
http://www.sfmbc.net/page123.html
There are also some build posts on the SFMBC.net Forum
As you'll see I opted for a single screw single rudder in the interests of weight saving. I've got fedup with trying to make the old power to weight ratio balance and still have both a reasonable trim and realistic performance at speed. There are a couple of shots of the boat at speed using a 9.6v MiMH 3400 pack. So far this gives me a couple of hours of mixed running.
I'm in the process of trying to convert the Italeiri Bofors to its marine version and while its all very challenging, I'm not sure it's the best way to go. I did have a resin cast Bofors but the resin was so brittle that it pretty much broke apart as it was being finished.
As Martin has said, the transom flap, if made adjustable, can do wonders for hull setup at speed but, if NOT adjustable can be a real drag and very significantly reduce speed. I'd certainly fit it on any future builds I do. You'll find some pikkies of the arrangement.
Hope this is helpful ........
Best of luck with your build.
Iain
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Hi Guys,
Tahnks for all the advice,
IainM - I have see some pics of your transom flap - I had planned to make mine adjustable for trimming purposes,
as for the exhaust flaps - my idea was simply to have them connected to a servo hooked up to the throttle channel so that they opened and closed in relation to the throttle setting. I may still try it yet, but, I will heed all the advice so far !
DickyD and Martin - thanks for the advice re:scale - I now know that the Italeri guns will be too small ! Will PM Stavros and see what he can do for me !
All the best,
Andi
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Hi Guys,
Tahnks for all the advice,
IainM - I have see some pics of your transom flap - I had planned to make mine adjustable for trimming purposes,
as for the exhaust flaps - my idea was simply to have them connected to a servo hooked up to the throttle channel so that they opened and closed in relation to the throttle setting. I may still try it yet, but, I will heed all the advice so far !
DickyD and Martin - thanks for the advice re:scale - I now know that the Italeri guns will be too small ! Will PM Stavros and see what he can do for me !
All the best,
Andi
Andi,
The main thing to remember is that this is YOUR build, build it the way you wish to, its your boat and don't forget to have fun whilst building it.
When you ask for advice from the forum, pick from it what you want and discard the rest
Check out Iain's model - he did a great job.
Looking forward to seeing your build - don't forget to add Pics on your progress....
Good luck mate
Martin down Under
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Thanks Martin !
Will send some pics when I get around to taking some - I have a new camera to try out so there is no excuse really !
Totally agree with what you are saying re: it being "my build" - as I said , I will be happy if it looks right from ten feet away on the water !
I have seen Iains boat - it is superb ! I can only aspire to such great things !
regards
Andi
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Well , as promised, here are some pics of my build so far - as i mentioned earlier in the thread, this hull has had several lives, as the many layers of paint on the hull will testify to ! ::)
Original motor setup has been altered a little - the motors were originally mounted in the forward compartment and drove the propshafts via two U/J's and a length of silversteel rod. This setup produced far too much vibration, so the motors have been moved closer to the propsafts and now employ a single U/J on each without the silversteel extensions. This is much quieter, as I anticipated it would be, as there is far less vibration.
Each motor is now controlled by its own ESC and each has its own battery, the three ESC's being linkd into the throttle channel with a pair of short "Y" leads. Two of the ESC's have had the red wire removed from the plug so that the is only a single power feed to the reciever.
The center ESC is a forwards only ESC, but the other two are full forward/reverse - just happens to be what I had available at the time ! They are all rated at over 20 amps continuous, but, I havent had the chance to put a test meter across them to see what the actual draw is - I broke mine last week and havent replaced it yet :(
These pics were taken yesterday morning - the superstructure has moved on a little since then, and will do so some more today hopefully. The hull may even get a lick of paint this afternoon :)
Anyway - on to the pics !
(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9389/0014238yp6.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-08
(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/498/0014245rz4.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-08
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/746/0014242hi1.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-08
(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8044/0014240rx2.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-08
I am enjoying reading the aticles others have postaed about their own BB builds in the various scales they have appeared in - they are giving me much food for thought with my own project !
Regards
Andi
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Hi there Andi
Nice build so far, I wonder if I could comment on one thing. I think you will be losing a fair amount of power due to the way that your motors have been set up. You will be causing resistance due to the fact that your motor is not directly in line with your propeller shaft - this can be easily corrected though, just by putting packing (pieces of wedgeshaped plywood) underneath the motor mount to bring the motor shaft in line and at the same angle as your prop shafts. This will reduce vibration and also noise and give you more power from your motor to your propeller. If you would like to see an example of this, have a look on the 63 Whaleback build. You can see that the motors are at the same angle as the shafts - HOPE this is of some help O0
Another thing I have noticed and that is all your props are running in the same direction; now; in some cases this is correct - like the 63 foot Whaleback, however on more recent vessels - the preference was to have the two outboard propellers rotating opposite hand - one turning left hand and the other opposite one turning right hand - and the centre prop obviously turning left or right hand, whichever way.
You will see running the model with all props running the same direction you will get what is known as 'sidewalk' the boat tends to kick to one side in a straight line and also, as we have stated before it will turn in a tighter turning circle in one direction compared to the other. It may pay you, to spend a little time experimenting with mix handed props to see if you obtain better performance.
aye
john e
bluebird
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Beat me to it John. Nice neat job but as you say motors could do with tilting to the same angle as the prop shafts so that they line up. Easy done though. O0
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Yes, I agree the motors should be brought into line. I was just about to suggest it but Bluebird beat me to it.
Maybe the misalignment was caused by too much of the "Moet" in the background!
Roger in france.
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A little picture to show the real set up of the Brave Borderer propellers; this is courtesy of a very good friend from the land of Kangaroos ;) you will see in the photograph that the centre and starboard prop turns clockwise and the port prop turns anti clockwise. O0
Hope this is of some help.
aye
john e
bluebird
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Yes, I agree the motors should be brought into line. I was just about to suggest it but Bluebird beat me to it.
Maybe the misalignment was caused by too much of the "Moet" in the background!
Roger in france.
{-) {-) {-) {-)
Not guilty on that one ! Thank the neigbours for those - we have just moved into this house three weeks ago !
Thanks for your kind comments and advice, guys ! Obviously, I still have a lot of work to do yet, but, I hope to get out and have a "play" with her tonite !
I have been reading about the prop issue in a number of threads on the group and plan to change that once I get the correct hand props. I had also already been considering the coupling/motor angle and plan to correct that somehow too. The alloy framework you can see in there is not fixed down yet so plenty of movement to try the shimming option. I had just been looking at some machined alloy motor mounts that bolt the motor directly onto the shaft tubes to maintain the correct alignment ( image below courtesy of http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/ (http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/) ). The guy at the local model shop also suggested some silicon tube used for the nitro exhausts slipped over the couplings would probably go a long way to dampening some of the vibration noise, too, as even when in perfect alignment the coupling can sometimes still "rattle" due to their construction. Not sure the couplings would fit into the inline motor mount when they have had a silicon sleave fitted though.
(http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/products-images-small/g2378.jpg)
Regards
Andi
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Hi Andi I have a similar motor mount but made by Graupner for my MTB and you will only need the coupling. O0
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Hello
Yes, I have seen these motor mount-cum-coupling alignments gismos in the flesh and also similar to both yours Andi and Dicky and I personally hold reservations about these.
Although they do look excellent - what makes me feel 'negative' about the use of them, is when you get a motor of a 540 size 'hanging' on the end of your propshaft, only supported by the tube, it is a fair weight and if the tube is not supported fully, I suspect it may tend to try and bend it. Plus, the other thing is all the tork from the motor or strain if you like, is being transmitted straight onto the propeller tube. The tork is not being dispersed via a built-in engine mount to the hull.
I suppose that if you use one of these devices you could support the motor by packing underneath it with P38 car body filler; I think that may make it more secure.
Just my thoughts - I know they are used a lot but you never see the lads and lasses with the fast boats use them. Their motors are nearly always solidly mounted to the hull.
aye
john e
bluebird
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Hi John you need to fix the motor to an engine mount or bulkhead. Just use the gizmo to align the prop and motor then you dont have to worry about the torque. O0
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Well,
Got some more work done today - built new motor mounts to correct the drive angle - the motor shafts are now in line with the prop shafts. The hull and deck got a liberal coating of grey automotive primer - needs rubbing down now and recoating with a couple more coats of primer, then I can get on with the colours for the hull bottom and the deck, and then laquer it all in.
Does anyone have any pictures or similar of the wateling for the BB ? My plans do not show it. Also - does the red paint on the hull bottom come up to the waterline or should it be below ?
The superstructure has had a load of balsa set between the ribs which form the sides of the main cabin area and bridge and the rear section has been started. Still need to do the doorways at the front of the main cabin sides and the outer skin needs adding. This bit I am waiting for as the model shop have not had any in stock.... should be here tomorrow hopefully !
Also - took it down to the pond for a run - goes really well, quite pleased ! :) Lifts the outside prop when turning full rudder at full speed, but, it turns *really* tight ! If i flick the rudder over quick enough it will 'flick' its back end around like one of those jetboats they race in the swamps ! {-) I May shift the link arm from the servo to reduce the rudder throw a little. I hear that 30 degrees is optimum, I haven't measured properly, but, as a guess, I would say I am probably nearer to 40 degrees with its current setting.
Seems to get up onto the plane quite easily - at least, I think it is planing - it seems to lift the front half of the hull clean out of the water and scoots along nicely.
And then it happened :
I sunk it already ! {-) {-) {-) I clipped the bank at the pond at speed and it just tipped it over onto its side :embarrassed: - luckily it was within arms length and I was there quickly enough to catch it before it went completely under O0 So, it is now sitting on the workbench slowly drying out before I can do any more work to it ! {-)
Will post some more pics soon !
Regards,
Andi
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Tough luck Andi, flipping her over like that. However, you have made great progress and little harm should have been caused thanks to your quick rescue.
Roger in France.
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Thanks Roger,
No damage - a little warping of the removable deck has occurred, but, I think I can rescue that.
Here's a few pics taken this evening now that everything has dried out !
Steering servo placement - this will be changed I think as I am not happy - the angle on the connecting rod does not allow equall movement each way. I do have another plan for this, so, will try it out over the next few days.
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6305/0014254vm1.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-11
Some pics of the ongoing construction of the superstructure :-
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3513/0014248kd6.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-11
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5027/0014255ge4.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-11
(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5276/0014251mv4.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-11
And finally - the modified motor mounts to correct the drive angle of the couplings :-
(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/391/0014252ie1.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-11
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hi there Andi
I have attached two photographs which I do hope show you, although they are in black/white, that the red anti-foul paint goes right the way up to the water line.
I do not think there was ever any white plimsole line/water line painted on these vessels. They went straight from re anti-foul paint to the grey hull paint.
Your build is looking good - KEEP IT UP - O0
One last question and this if for me, when you said the model was tight turning - was this in both directions? or, was it a tighter turn on one way only?
aye
john e
bluebird
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Hi John,
Thanks for the pics ! - I wasn't expecting there to be a plimsol line - I do not know much about shipping, but, I was under the impression that only cargo or "variable load" vessels would have had a plimsol line - I stand to be corrected on that one though !
I have a rough idea of where the red paint should come up to, but, as there are no waterline indications on the plans I have, I am also unable to judge how she is sitting in the water in respect of ballasting or weight distribution. She seems to run OK as she is - on 7.2v pack forward of the motors in the forward compartment and two behind the motors in the midship compartment where the motors are. She does seem to be planing, but also seems very "nose up" and squats the stern down a bit - I would have expected her to run a little higher and a little more level in the water. However - I have not yet built and fitted the transom flap - so I would expect that to have a significant effect on the running trim. I must get on and do that next !
As for the tight turning, she is very tight both ways - at full throttle I would say 180 degree turn in less than three feet radius ! As I said earlier - if I give her hard full rudder rapidly she will lift the stern out of the water and "throw" it round, pivoting on the bow, jetski style !
I will try to get some running shots, or even video if I can post it here, of her in action for your thoughts !
Regards
Andi
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Hi Andi
See if this works, this scan is from the Tamiya plastic kit instructions; each square = 5 mm on the picture. See if you can scale up to the position of the water line for yourself, on your model. When I refer to the plimsoll line, me brain is not working yet this morning :) would your brain work if you were being deafened by Julie Andrews singing the Sound of Music!!! >>:-( >:( :( ::) :D {-) The Mrs had that CD playing in the background!! Yikes....
Anyway, on some vessels you know you have a black line or a white line between the anti-foul and the main colour of the ship. EEEEEEEEEEEEEE that is the line I was referring to, and I went and called it a plimsoll line.
aye
john e
bluebird
the hills are alive ......................
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Nothing wrong with a horizontal plimsoll line John. {-) >>:-(
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Thanks John !
Don't worry too much about the Julie Andrews bit - you will recover next time you put a boat on the water !
Until then - you have my deepest sympathies ! {-) {-)
Regards
Andi
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Thanks John !
Don't worry too much about the Julie Andrews bit - you will recover next time you put a boat on the water !
Until then - you have my deepest sympathies ! {-) {-)
Regards
Andi
You did say the next time he puts a boat on the water ? {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Well, maybe there is some incentive there ! {-)
On the positive side ( :P ) :-
I finally got the thin ply (1/32") to do the cabin skin and "cowling" behind the cabin - so that is what I am doing at the mo - piccies later ! Also Speaking to Sean at the model shop and explaining to him that I wanted to try to set the boat up to cut/reduce power to the inside motor and reduce power to the centre motor when turning, he siad - "you can do all that from your Tx ! " So - as I have a Futaba 4EX digital Tx which I use for all my ground based models - I have now got the settings to sort all that out without the need for complex bits of kit in the boat for mixing !
Will let you all know how I get on !
Regards
Andi
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Hi Andi,
Looking good maan!!
Sorry to hear of your upset :'( I confess to having doscovered that my reactions are not all that good with a high speed craft coming towards me! One advantage of slow Tugs I guess {-)
Perhaps the pikky below may help with your water line issue.
As you'll see there are draft marks both forward (and aft) but I have not seen a Plimsol mark at all.
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h136/IainM_2006/brave%20class/BraveBordererP1011-02.jpg)
Regarding your rudder stock set up, perhaps consider using the extended arm approach ....
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h136/IainM_2006/brave%20class/rudderarm.jpg)
I'd certainly make every effort to keep the length of the rudder stock tubes as high as possible. My one squirted water up the tube as soon as the stern dug in at high speed. I eventually had to fit a mini stuffing box at the top to stop it happening. Hindsight being a great gift, I had been warned about the sloppy fit of many commercial rudder tube assemblies but, me being me, I thought 'ach.. it'll be OK'.
Reference the superstructure I discovered that making a template and clipping the thin ply over it to give the curves followed by 30 seconds in the microwave produced a component that held its shape. Maybe all too late but ......... Also, just remember to make sure that SWMBO has gone out for the afternoon before you try it!!
Keep up the good work
Iain
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Hi Iain,
Thanks for the idea re: rudder arm extension - my plan is to relocate my rudder servo to the rear of the bulkhead before the transom and use a Bowden Cable type setup, seeing as I have some kicking around - it will also free up a lot of space in the stern compartment for ballasting/weight redistribution.
Will post a pic when I have done it !
Got some pics coming up shortly of the superstructure - keep watching !
Regards
Andi
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Hi Andi,
Yes ... I'd go with the bowden cable idea.
I used this on my Royal Barge (see piks) and it works a treat.
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h136/IainM_2006/KIF_0015.jpg)
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h136/IainM_2006/KIF_0013.jpg)
Sorry about the poor quality of the piks .. hadn't acquired my latest camera at the time!!
Iain
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As Promised, a few more pics of todays work :-
Laying the outer skin for the cabin area :-
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/9391/0014256kh8.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-12
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1315/0014257tc4.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-12
The rear "cowl" section is laminated double thickness for strength - the outer skins were cut such that the natural flex of the ply would curve easily around the radius of the cabin - I cut slots in the inner strengthening piece to help it bend around the curve as I made this piece across the stiffer direction of the grain of the ply for extra strength :-
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5104/0014261kr5.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-12
And, finally, a couple of shots showing the carved balsa parts which make up the entrances to the gangways either side of rhe cabin :-
(http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/8176/0014263si2.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-12
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4694/0014264ct0.jpg)
By andi4x4 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/andi4x4) at 2008-04-12
Details of the Transmitter settings for the throttle mixing still to come !
Regards
Andi
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Andi,
Your model is coming along great O0- wish I could build that quick - :( I suffer from swmbo restrictions. >>:-( >>:-( Great build and keep up the good work O0
Martin doon under
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Hi Martin,
Thanks for your kind comments !
Todays efforts were just the skinning of the cabin area and the carving of the balsa gangways - started about 5:30pm and had it finished by about 8pm. Sorted out the photos then for the forum !
I, too, suffer from swmbo restrictions, although, they are few and far between, thankfully ! O0 Both my partner and I smoke, but, we do not smoke in the house, so we often have "Rendezvous's" in the back porch for a smoke and a coffee ! {-) She complained once about me spending so much time with my models and my reply was " would you prefer I go to the pub every night and come home skint and p****d ? At least this way I am at home with you and just skint ! " The answer I got was favourable ! I am very lucky - my swmbo is very understanding and accommodating - it is supprising what I manage to get away with in the house sometimes ! {-) {-)
I also have the benefit of working 12hr shifts on a "Two days, Two nights, Four off" pattern - which gives me a lot of free time for modelling, and on nightshifts I often take something into work to keep me occupied when it is quiet.
I also tend to get quite focused when I am left in peace - once I get my head into something I can make a lot of progress in a short amount of time ! I have been known to spend as much as 14 - 16 hours a day on a project when I get on a roll !
Regards
Andi
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Hi Martin,
Thanks for your kind comments !
I, too, suffer from swmbo restrictions, although, they are few and far between, thankfully ! O0 Both my partner and I smoke, but, we do not smoke in the house, so we often have "Rendezvous's" in the back porch for a smoke and a coffee ! {-) She complained once about me spending so much time with my models and my reply was " would you prefer I go to the pub every night and come home skint and p****d ? At least this way I am at home with you and just skint ! " The answer I got was favourable ! I am very lucky - my swmbo is very understanding and accommodating - it is supprising what I manage to get away with in the house sometimes ! {-) {-)
I also have the benefit of working 12hr shifts on a "Two days, Two nights, Four off" pattern - which gives me a lot of free time for modelling, and on nightshifts I often take something into work to keep me occupied when it is quiet.
I also tend to get quite focused when I am left in peace - once I get my head into something I can make a lot of progress in a short amount of time ! I have been known to spend as much as 14 - 16 hours a day on a project when I get on a roll !
Regards
Andi
Andi,
I currently work 3 days and 4 off, dayshift only. I used to work same as you but 25 years shiftwork was enough for me - now avoid it like the plague. Evenings on forum posting pics and searching for info with no time for modeling after work as I come home pretty stuffed. We live on a large property with extensive gardens that requires looking after. Swmbo puts in the plants by the thousands and then its my job to look after.
Current swmbo complaint - you don't spend as much time with me anymore...Hmmmmm
Modeling is slow and I tend to build larger scale but I am in no hurry, my pleasure just comes from doing it. At present still sanding and filling my largish BB although hope to finish off this week end - not bad, only took 6 months to get this far.
So, you keep building your model as I'm lurking in the background, picking up pointers for my model. Can't wait for you to start on the transom flap ::)
Good luck and happy building
Itchin Martin doon under
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Can't wait for you to start on the transom flap ::)
Transom flap - forgotten all about that last day or so !
Regards
Andi
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Andi, hi there;
It is looking good your build so far, it's very impressive. The subject of the transom flap on the back of the BB - if you fit this; as a working item; do not forget to fit the small angle strip which goes between the hull, and the flap. This prevents the water from creeping up the stern; and the back of the flap - causing unwanted turbulence.
If you check the photograph which I put on earlier, which was kindly sent to me from our very own Martin doon under - the one with the propellers and rudders; if you enlarge this photograph up and scrutinise it, you will actually see the sealing strip which I am referring to.
aye
John e
Bluebird
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Hi John,
Thanks for that - I have seen mention of it on the forum - IainM has a "quick sketch" of the mod he had to do to solve that problem on his webpage about his BB build - http://www.sfmbc.net/page123.html
Hope you don't mind me posting a link to your page Iain !
Due to my fibreglass hull not being of the best quality, there is a little deformation of the transom - so I plan to manufacture a new outer "skin" so to speak and fit the flap and other transom parts to this - will probably skim the GRP transom with P38, sand flat/square then use plasicard for the rest. This should allow me to build something along the right lines as a unit, then bond the whole assembly into place.
Regards
Andi
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No problem Andi, just glad it's been of help.
Your build is looking really good ........ keep up the good work!!
Iain
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Well,
I had a play with my Futaba 4EX transmitter and the only way I can do the channel mixing I need to do in order to use the V-tail mixing funtion on the tx is to start swapping the channel allocations in the Tx case. >:( There is no provision to digitally asign channels for a specific function. I could do it with the channels set as they are, but this I would then put throttle on right stick and the rudder control on left stick. This would confuse me far to much as all my other ground based models are set up the other way around. I did contemplate physically swapping the pots on the sitcks to move the channels around, but, then, of course, it would be set up wrong for all my other ground based models and I would have to spend some time changing the settings on the 30-odd cars, trucks and rockcrawlers I have ! :o
So I took the easy route and splashed out a whole £15 on a v-tail mixer to go in the boat ! {-) {-) This , obviously, only affects the outer motors - the centre motor is just connected to the throttle channel and runs at whatever speed the outside motor is running at through a turn. It is not affected by the V-tail mixer at all, but, I would like to get it to throttle back a little though a turn if I can.
Any suggestions anyone ?
Haven't had chance to try it out yet - not done much more work on the boat either as I have been working last few days - will be back on it in a day or so though !
O0 O0
Regards
Andi
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The ACTion mixer has plugs for 3 ESC's or use a "y" lead from the throttle channel.
Bob
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Hi Bob,
I have the centre esc on a "Y" lead at the mo along with the throttle lead for the mixer - this obviously only sets the throttle proprtionally to the stick position and the speed of the fastest of the two outer motors during a turn, I would like to throttle back on centre in a turn if poss.
I will have another look at the ACTion website - I haven't really studied it that hard !
Thanks for the tip !
Regards
Andi
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Bottoms ! :(
Wish I had looked before I bought the V-tail mixer - the P40C looks like the perfect tool for the job - must get one !
Thanks again for the advice, Bob !
Regards
Andi
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Hi there Andi 4 by 4
I have several of these ACTion P40 mixers & so forth. The way they work:
here is some food for thought;
To take full advantage of the mixer; you require a peed (that is how I feel today {-) {-)) should read speed controller for each motor - there is provision on the mixer to take three speed controllers and your rudder servo plug. When it is connected up in this way, as you advance the throttle stick from the zero position, all three motors will run at the same speed.
If you desire to turn port or starboard and move your rudder stick this in turn, through the mixer, either increases the outboard motor speed and decreases the inboard motor speed to aid the turning. The centre motor is not affected, it remains at the same speed as what has been set by your throttle stick.
This set up using three speed controllers, extracts the best performance out of these mixers; last thing about these mixers, when your throttle stick is in the zero position and you move your rudder stick from port to starboard; the motors do not react they stay stationery. Just the rudders move. However, if you slightly advance the throttle stick either forward or reverse, only by one notch, you get an immediate response of the mixer and your motors - so basically this enables the boat to spin on the spot. One motor running full ahead and one full astern.
The motor's speed is in ratio with the movement of the rudder stick. I have been trying to persuade FLJ and his support team to add a function in where when you put the stick hard over to either port or starboard, it drops the centre motor down by at least 50% speed.
I think personally this is the only alteration this mixer needs - I have worked with it for many years and the only problems I have had, or have ever seen regarding problems with speed controllers and mixers is the plonkre or even plonker :D at the end of the sticks - the person who is controlling the model.
What we want is our very own FLJ to manufacture a chip - that is easy to insert into the MODELLER not the model - to prevent the modeller making silly mistakes O0 {-) {-) {-) things like connecting things around the wrong way.
Hope this helps
aye
john e
bluebird
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Hi John,
Thanks for the info on the ACTion mixer - it sounds pretty much the same as the setup I now have - only difference being that the mixer I am using *does* run the motors with the throttle stick at neutral - the speed they run at is proportional to the throw of the stick though. When running at full throttle, the mixer shuts down the inside motor, but, at lower speeds it will start to reverse the inside motor and accelerate the outside one - the differential increases the slower the boat is moving.
Off to work in a bit (night shift - last of this tour thankfully) - so will give it a try tomorrow evening at the pond and see what happens !
Regards
Andi
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Hi Guys,
Been doing a little work on the BB - Got the main superstructure done - this has been painted with a household "one-Coat" emulsion which has gone on really well - just needs a rub down now prior to a varnish coat. I also stumbled across a green colour acrylic spay paint for the deck in the local motor factors - I know it will go ontop of the emulsion ok - hope it is the right colour !
The auto primer I used on the hull is too dark a shade of grey though I think - any comments ? I have more of the lighter colour grey on the cabin - I may repaint the hull to match the cabin - what does the group think ? I won't do any more painting until I have had some comments back from the group as to the general consensus on the two colours.
Also made a start on the Transom Flap - I didn't have any "T" section plastic strip (neither did the only model shop on the Isle of Man ??? ) so I had to "improvise" - not brilliant, but, looks ok from a couple of feet away ! {-) Got some fettling to do with that, just waiting for glue to cure !
Some pics below:-
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9936/0014422kr9.jpg)
(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4633/0014423lb3.jpg)
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/267/0014424du7.jpg)
regards
Andi
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Are you 100000000% sure that auto paint will go over Houshold emulsion check again as the household paints are not compatable with auto paints.It will end in tears
Stavros
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Hi Stavros -
I have a piece of wood outside that I painted with the emulsion then laquered with automotive acrylic laquer - so I know that works - the beauty of acrylic is that it will go onto almost anything - it is the solvent/propellent that may be an issue, but, the test piece I did last week seems ok at the mo. The good thing about emulsion is that, as you probabl;y know, it is water based not oil based, so, it should be safe to use with the auto acrylics.
Not sure how the emulsion would go ontop of the auto primer though - need to test that before I start painting.
I am kinda thinking that the hull is too dark - the more I look at it, the more I am convinced about it.
Anyhow -
Couple more pics of the transom flap -
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1298/0014426jt2.jpg)
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/143/0014425tv3.jpg)
Next is hinge fitting and mounting points for the bottle screws I have just ordered ! I have also just ordered a pair of 4mm Bofors kits, along with other sundry items such as working searchlight, bollards,handrail knobs, stanchions, foghorn, anchor, etc.
Still to do - the bridge, ammo boxes and deck details, exhausts, masts, etc -
the list goes on !
Regards
Andi
Regards
Andi
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Andi,
I noticed with each photo taken that the hull color changes (household lighting). On a reasonable day, take a photo of your model outside in natural light - will give a better idea. O0
Also, on the Mayhem site there are photo's of various shows. Have a look at the photos under Ally Pally 2007 London exhibition and around photo No.163. Here you will see an excellent model of BB and the color scheme - May be of some help :)
I still wish I can build that quick - your build is looking great and keep up the good work O0
Martin the other BB builder.
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Thanks Martin,
I have had a look at several of the galleries on there - which is what makes me think the hull is too dark !
I am goint upto the local pond shortly - they have a scale steering competition on there today - Have a look at the boats and talk to the owners !
May even take my camera !
Regards,
Andi
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Been a bit slow of late - not much progress to report on the actual build,
But,
I have been spending !
Two parcels arrived yesterday morning for me - the first contained :-
(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6636/0014480tp4.jpg)
Handrail stanchions, anchor, searchlight, bollards, turnbuckles and foghorn from an ebay seller - sellers name is - wingertaz
and the second contained :-
(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/32/0014481iq9.jpg)
(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6556/0014483qf4.jpg)
Two resin and whitemetal 1/32 scale Vosper type 40mm Bofors kits ! Beautifully cast resin parts, nice whitemetal barrel and parts for the magazine, and some brass wire for the guardrails, and a good pictoral build manual. Very pleased with these ! £22.99 each from N.M.Models in Burscough, lancs. www.modelboatfittings.co.uk if you want to take a look - lots of MTB fittings there - will be placing another order soon, now that I kow what they sell ! I found them via Ebay - seller name - jancol78. They also do a complete PT-109 kit all resin and whitemetal parts, GRP hull and includes the motors, shafts, etc - all you need is your esc,radio gear and battery - £250. - and all the parts are available seperately so you can buy all the bits individually if you cant afford £250 straight off ! O0
I will do a build thread when I start these guns (there wont already be one as these kits were only released last week !) which I will post in this thread as it is part of the BB build, but, I would also like it to be posted elsewhere as a thread in its own right (could the mods keep watching and do the necc. for me at the appropriate time ? ) - I think these guns could become quite a favourite amongst MTB / FPB builders ! O0 My only complaint is that they are meant to be assembled as a static, non-working kit - I hope to be able to add in pivots for the up/down of the gun and I hope to also add a rotate funtion too.
All I need now is 4 extra channels on my transmitter ! {-) {-)
Happy, Happy, Happy ! O0 O0 {-)
Regards
Andi
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Andi,
Do they make fittings in other scales ???
Martin doon under
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Andi as a matter of interest Wingertaz is a member of this forum and is also http://www.redbankmodels.co.uk/ A lot of the chaps on here use him and he is very helpful and efficient. I've just ordered a load of stuff myself. O0
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Martin -
They do some 1/24 scale stuff and a 1/24th scale gun is due out shortly. They also do other fittings in various sizes, but, they havent listed the sizes on the website ! These items are on ebay and the sizes are listed on there search for sell - jancol78.
Dick-
I wasnt aware that he was a member here ! That provides me with some comfort as one Item I ordered was not in stock and is now on back order. At least I know where to get hold of him if I lose contact via the ebay system. He did seem like a good chap from the emails and the note he put in my parcel to let me know about the shortfall.
regards
Andi
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Been working on the forward gun today - figured out a method to rotate it - got that all sorted using some gears from a Tamiya car as I had them lying around ( the complete gearset is available on eBay for about £3.50 and contains enough parts to do both guns ) and a Futaba s3003 servo modified for continuous running. The gun pivot is made from two pieces of brass tube, one must be a good fit inside the other, but not tight as the outer one is used as a bearing and support for the inner one, which is fixed to the base of the gun and rotates inside the outer piece - I used 3/16 and 5/32 as they are a good fit, however, with hindsight I should have gone with 7/32 and 3/16 as the Tamiya drive gear on the bottom of the turret shaft has been bonded to an old, brass, Meccano gear - which are drilled to fit a 3/16 shaft ! I had to shim the 5/32 to fit it, but, it works !
Just need to work out how I am going to do the up/down bit ! I am thinking thin rod up the inside of the turret pivot shaft to a pivoting "thing" on the servo arm of a micro servo to allow the servo to be fixed rigid to the underside of the deck, but, allow the thin rod to rotate with the gun - will demonstrate later - if it works ! :P
Will do some pics tomorrow evening, then, will do the build thread for the guns proper during the week when I start on the stern gun - should be a fairly short build thread, as there is not much to it really - just takes a little time to make sure everything is square. Hardest part is drilling the holes square in the resin base components - luckily I have a pillar drill to help with that ! ;D
I see no reason why this same method couldn't be used for other gun types, too ! O0
Regards
Andi
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Just been up to the pond for a test - first run since the V-tail mixer was fitted -tried it then removed it ! :( It wouldnt seem to let the motors reach full speed and it slowed the boat down too much in the turns - performance is much better without it and the turns are tighter without it - so it will stay out now !
Figured out that I need watercooling on the motors :( - they get a little too warm after a run. This means I will have to , yet again, reconfigure my motor mounts as I did not allow space for cooling coils when I made the new mounts to correct the motor/shaft alignment >>:-(
I also tried ( briefly ! ) the 11.1v lipos I have for my helicopter - WOW ! :o :o superb performance ! O0 I think I need more volts {-) {-) Boat got straight up onto the plane, and, at times, was almost airborn when crossing its own wake ! whereas, with the 7.2v car packs I have been using, it is stuggling to get there - performance is not too bad on 7.2v, whereas, on 11.1v it is too quick really, so I am thinking maybe 9.6v is the way to go. I have run this hull built up as a pleasure boat in the past on a single 12v 600 motor from an old cordless drill, 9.6v pack and 50mm 'X' prop through a 2:1 reduction unit and got a similar perfromance to the three x 600 motors and 3x 11.1v packs setup I tried today. Rethink on the powertrain in order I think ! O0 I still have two of the old 9.6v packs I used to use, however, they are both fairly low mah ratings - 1100 and 1500 I think, but, if they are any good I will try them. I am also thinking that three motors and three batteries is now just too much weight - and as the build progresses it is only going to get heavier - so I am now thinking about the weight issue too. - one motor and one pack is becoming more appealing, but, I would still like to retain the Scale three prop setup - ho hum ! :-\
All this was tried without the transom flap fitted as I still have not found an adhesive that will stick the plastic tube I have to the styrene construction of the flap ! >>:-( I have tried regular cyano, industrial cyano, special "difficult plastics" two pack cyano, epoxy, Revells Contacta Professional, - the only thing I have found that will weld this tube to anything is Acetone - which will weld the tube to itself - but not to styrene ! >>:-( Will have to wait til monday and get some plumbers solvent adhesive cleaner and give that a try. If that doesn't work - I have some model aircraft pin hinges and will use them - if they will glue to anything ::)
Regards
Andi