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Author Topic: A, B, C Sails?  (Read 4695 times)

Eddy Matthews

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A, B, C Sails?
« on: July 19, 2006, 08:24:25 PM »

On a one metre yacht with three sets of sails, is there a specific range of windspeeds that each suit is best for? Does it depend purely on the hull (ie it's totally different for each type of hull), or is it down to trial and error for each boat?

I'd be interested in more info on this black art if anyone can help?

Regards
Eddy
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BobF

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2006, 10:50:06 PM »

Hi Eddy,

The sails used will depend on the hull in question.
I have found that on occasion changing from the biggest set to the medium ones, can actually increase the boat speed as it was (over canv"bottom"ed) 'carrying to much sail area' for the wind conditions, making the boat lean over too far and spill the wind etc. Trial and error or even better, trial and success is the only true way though.

Narrow beam yachts will burry their nose quicker than a wide beam boat, although there is a science to hull design that can help to stop this problem.

Type Lester Gilbert into your search engine, it will make interesting reading.

Regards Bob
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Stavros

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2006, 11:13:46 PM »

Really depends how brave youy are when the wind is strong,baisically it goes like this,but I will satnd corrected on this one.
A. is the biggest sail available an dis for light winds
B  is for a moderate wind slightly stronger than light but not as strong as gales
C  is your storm sails for those silly days when we go sailing in a gale
I hope this is of some help
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Eddy Matthews

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2006, 11:52:42 PM »

Thanks Stavros, I realise what each set of sails is designed for, but my question was - Is there a specific range of wind speeds that each suit of sails works best at?

ie. Suit A 0-10 Mph, set B 10 - 20Mph, set C 20 Mph plus?

Regards
Eddy
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MikeK

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2006, 09:17:51 AM »

Hi Eddy
Thought I might as well have my twopence worth. I would think that there cannot be a specific set of wind ranges as has already been mentioned each hull is different and reaches its limit of wind strength before or later than other boats on the water. I have never seen a specific set of wind speeds written down but now I've said that no doubt somebody is going to point us in the direction of just that !!

best regards
MikeK
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malcolmfrary

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2006, 12:56:13 PM »

Stavros has it about right.  You will find that as you get better at setting the sails and more used to the handling of your boat, you will be able to carry more sail in stronger wind and get the benefit of it.  Its a bit like F1 drivers deciding when to change to wets/intermediates/slicks.  Some can do it earlier than others and benefit, others come unstuck.
A lot can also depend on the water that you are sailing on - if it tends to break up into a chop, or whether it gains a swell or just stays flat can alter the steering when heavily canvassed.  Its one of the things that makes yachts so interesting to sail, no two sessions are alike.
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Roger in France

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2006, 06:53:14 PM »

I have recently bought a "Laser". At the same time I bought a small, cheap wind speed indicator. My plan is to check wind speed and change rigs so that I build up some idea of which rig matches which wind speed. I recognise the limits will change as I grow (hopefully) more competent and confident. It will be interesting to compare my findings over the next few months and see how my sailing changes.

However, like so many natural things, the wind is not constant, even over very short periods of time.Also the topography of the sailing water will have an effect on wind speed and direction. For example close in shore may be quite different from well off shore. If there are trees, buildings etc. or rising or falling land which vary along the shore line this will also produce apparent variations and real variations in wind speed.

Roger in France.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2006, 12:54:30 PM »

Spot on about the topography making a difference.  The waters that I normally sail on are part of the sea defences, and if the wind is blowing over the sea wall, there is almost always a "dead" band a few yards out, and a narrow strip where the wind is in the exact opposite direction.  This is one of the things that makes taking wind driven boats for a walk so interesting.
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andywright

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2006, 08:20:21 AM »

A lot of it is down to experience, with in reason a yacht hull is designed to be sailed as upright as possible, or with a slight angle of heel, if your yacht is being blown flat all the time you are on a hiding to nothing, on the other hand if it drifts about upright you will get there slowly.
Watch other members of your club, you will see the ones regularly winning, watch and learn.
If a course is set up with a lot of reaching and running you will get away with more sail area than if a proper course is set where you have to beat to windward, this is where the tactics come in, can you maintain good windward speed and also keep up down wind. Shaking sails slow a boat down.
As you can see there isn't a hard and fast rule, the wind is never steady, its a law of averages.
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martno1fan

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2006, 07:35:44 PM »

wind is also very unpredictable especially when you sail near to trees islands banks walls etc etc,i was sailing on a lovely lake last week near to an island wind seemed fine so off she went sailed great then decided to sail a bit further away went past the island oops boat wouldnt turn the wind had her and she was away for a few seconds !!.i did manage to get her turned just before she hit a boom that some people had used to cordon off one end of the lake (dont know who did that ???) ;D any ideas malcolm?, what im saying is you may think you have the right sails but the wind can be very unpredictable especially in inland lakes where there are islands etc etc.its a bit like grand prix drivers choosing the right tires theres never a hard and fast rule a lot is down to luck and  instinct etc.i thought i had the right sails but then found i had a little too much for the conditions lucky there was no harm done and my boat didnt get stuck up against that boom sideways to the wind.
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cbr900

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2006, 01:20:50 AM »

I have found even in very strong winds if your yacht does not turn your set is out slightly, A chap over here sails in all the state and Australian titles and gave my some pointers on set up, the difference it made to my yachts was unbelievable, so it may pay to get someone who really knows what is what to check your boat and see if it can be improved....




Roy
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martno1fan

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2006, 10:51:08 AM »

hi roy theres no doubt you have a point there but what im saying is if theres too much sail for the conditions you will not be able to controll the boat.thats why most people have 3 sets light, medium and strong to match the conditions the only trouble is on a model you cant change the sails when theyre on the water.ive no doubt my boat could do with some fine tuning however as its only my first sailboat and she was scratch built.ive had no one show me how to sail or set her up ive been learning as i go.so far its been a lot of fun with the odd hairy moment thrown in but that all adds to the fun in the end.the sails are flat and im going to make some panneled ones when i get chance as im sure she will sail even better than she does now.ill also make a set for heavy winds as its quite windy where i sail on occasions.im sure also that a bit of adjusting of the sheets could help also maybe a bit more travel would help when turning so i can let the sails out a wee bit more when i want to turn.ive only sailed her half a dozen times so im sure i still have lots to learn but as long as im enjoying it and my boats still in one piece im happy.
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cbr900

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2006, 01:43:31 PM »

If you really want to have some fun get a Cat, oh boy do they keep you on your toes, but they do look spectacular on one leg, and scary at the same time....




Roy
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dougal99

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2006, 02:08:05 PM »

If you really want to have some fun get a Cat, oh boy do they keep you on your toes, but they do look spectacular on one leg, and scary at the same time....




Roy



But you do need a lot of room to swing them ;D ;D ;D
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cbr900

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2006, 02:27:39 PM »

Good one Doug... ;D ;D ;D



Roy
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martno1fan

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2006, 05:26:36 PM »

 ;D yea good one doug,ive seen a few small cats before and they look great ,fast and scarey comes to mind a bit like one of my exes!! ;D.
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dougal99

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2006, 05:28:23 PM »

Martin

Boasting or complaining ???  ;D ;D ;D

Doug
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martno1fan

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2006, 08:34:43 AM »

deffinateley bragging mate but she was scarey haha ;D.
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MikeK

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2006, 09:04:03 AM »

For those of you electronically minded people (of which I'm not) there was an article in a magazine ages ago on how to construct a self righting control for cats so you could sail right on the edge without capsizing. The gist of the idea was centered around a pair of mercury/ball bearing switches set at the correct angle in each hull. When the angle was reached ie just about to capsize, the circuit was made which overode the winch signal and reversed the supply to the winch which then let the sails out. Ergo the boat started to drop back, the mercury switch was opened and the winch returned to its original position. The whole thing was then ready to repeat when the boat got back to the 'edge'.
I think this would be feasible on winches with separate supplies, I'm not so sure on the latest models.
A couple of us at the time were thinking about trying it and I 'borrowed' a couple of mercury switches from condemned lifebuoy  floats in preparation but, as with a lot of things, nothing happened. I don't know what happened to the article or which magazine it came from.
So there you are a challenge to all the boffins out there !!  :-\ :-\

Best regards

MikeK
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martno1fan

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2006, 10:11:13 AM »

yea i think ill stick with the manual aproach lol im useless with electrics!! ???
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malcolmfrary

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2006, 09:02:02 PM »

i did manage to get her turned just before she hit a boom that some people had used to cordon off one end of the lake (dont know who did that )  any ideas malcolm?,

Guilty yeronner.  Them booms is dear as well, but that one has had a few park motor boats over it and survived, so you shouldn't have done too much damage....   
Fairhaven is a great lake to take a boat for a walk. The trees and islands etc combine to make it different every time, and I find that there seems to be a new learning curve every year - I tend to start the season with short sails, but use larger ones in the same wind later as I re-learn.
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martno1fan

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2006, 10:28:07 PM »

yea i was thinking more along the lines of getting her back if she had got stuck mate!!.Malcolm im still learning mate but its great fun, i gotta say less stressfull than learning to fly yourself i can tell you lol.by the way what boats are you sailing(driving)? any pics you can show us.
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andywright

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Re: A, B, C Sails?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2006, 09:22:11 PM »

Looks like this post is getting side tracked, more information on multihulls is available at

http://freespace.virgin.net/model.multihulls/

This is the British Model Multihull site. I was secretary of the association for three years ansd regularly sailed multihulls both in the country and in France.
One big plus wiyth a multihull is to build light, this enables the boat to accelerate rather than dig in the lee float and capsize. See also www.windpowersails.8m.com for pictures of my boat. The all up weight in top rig was 4lbs.
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