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Author Topic: Madness!  (Read 5838 times)

Peterm

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2008, 01:55:57 pm »

Bunkerbarge,  You are spot on!   Pete M
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Colin H

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2008, 04:02:03 pm »

I am strictly to the right of Genghis Khan when it comes to dealing with murders etc and belong to the hang em high and flog em hard brigade and whats more I make no apologies for my attitude.

However I might soften my attitude if life meant life that is until you are DEAD.

It might also help if our jails were more like Pompey DQs and less like Butlins.

Colin H.
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John W E

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2008, 07:48:09 pm »

My last words on this.....my blood pressure has now settled down ....  :D

Originally this topic began about pirates not wishing to be sent to their place of origin; in case they had their hands cut off or they were sentenced to death - by their own laws - when are we great Europeans going to learn or when are the 'do-gooders' going to learn, before they take the spelk out of someone else's eye, to take the plank out of their own eye. 

The do-gooders condemn the justice systems as being barbaric - and un-humane - I wonder if they have ever turned around to look at the society that the do-gooders have created; through the 'be-nicey nicey to everyone' attitude? 

aye
john e
bluebird.  :-X :-X :-X :P

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2008, 07:57:54 pm »

Good point there John. Along with the other one that if, as a foreigh nationa, you abuse our hospitality and commit a serious crime then you should forfeit any right you have to remain in the UK and take the consequences.

It still leaves the problem of dealing with our own home grown thugs. As has been said by others, penalties must have a genuine deterrent value.

Colin
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Colin H

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2008, 08:57:40 pm »

I would love to know the names of the last 4 people executed in the UK that were then prooven innocent.

For I can find no record of this.

Colin H.
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DickyD

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2008, 08:30:39 am »

Heres the last 5 Colin all proven guilty even on appeal:

# 1961: Robert McGladdery, 25, was hanged on December 20 in Crumlin Road Gaol in Belfast, the last person to be executed in Northern Ireland, for the murder of Pearl Gamble in Newry.
# 1962: James Hanratty was executed at Bedford on 4 April after a controversial rape-murder trial. In 2002 Hanratty's body was exhumed and the Court of Appeal upheld his conviction after Hanratty's DNA was linked to crime scene samples.
# 1963: Henry Burnett, aged 21, was executed on 15 August at Craiginches Prison in Aberdeen for the murder of seaman Thomas Guyan, the last hanging in Scotland.
# 1964: Peter Anthony Allen, at Walton Prison in Liverpool, and Gwynne Owen Evans, at Strangeways Prison in Manchester, were executed on 13 August at 8 a.m. for the murder of John Alan West, the last people executed in Britain.

 O0
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bigfella

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2008, 09:40:11 am »

I am not an advocate of capitol punishment however when people commit murder and get sentenced to 25 Years (Life) and are released after 10 years it becomes a joke. Supposedly being rehabilitated, what of the life he took that does not get time on for good behavior. You take a life you should be sent to jail for the term of your natural. Life should be Life. The action of premeditated murder, taking into ones own hand to take a life from this world is not the act of someone who belongs in society no mater how much the person may have changed for the good or even if they have found god. It is just my oppinion.

Regards David
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2008, 01:34:36 pm »

Taken from the http://www.ageofnelson.org/MichaelPhillips/index.html site, which has a history of the doings of the RN from about 1750 to the start of the steam era.
Quote
BEACON. Bomb. (METEOR until 1832. Sold 1846) 1834 Richard COPELAND, recommiss-
  ioned 5/32, Mediterranean. During 1837 COPELAND took captive near Thasos a
  pirate, Kara Mitzos, with 160 of his men. He handed them over to the Greek
  government who promptly released them without trial to continue their attacks
  on shipping. When COPELAND captured them a second time he sent them to the
  Pasha of Thessalonica who executed them.

In some parts of the world, this situation is being carried on.  By telling the RN not to take any action, we are effectively saying that piracy is OK.  It is only a short step from that to piracy being an accepted norm.  Twenty something years ago we "told" the Argentine government that we were disinterested in protecting our interests in the South Atlantic, which resulted in a lot of effort and a great many lives lost needlessly, mostly innocent, precious few guilty.  The same with pirates.  We say it is too much bother to take action against them, we have told them to just carry on and expand their efforts.
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Colin H

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2008, 03:05:50 pm »

Thanks for the reply Richard.

In fact I had that infomation, but someone had posted that the last four executed in the UK were later found to be innocent and I was trying to verify that statement.

Yours Colin H.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2008, 04:51:00 pm »

After following this thread since its inception, I am surprised no-one (as far as I recall) mentioned the word "deterrent". If a criminal thought there would be a good chance that he would be caught and hauled up into a court that actually fitted the sentence to the crime I believe random criminality would decrease. For youngsters it has been my experience that taking them out of a peer group and putting them in a more disciplened environment (not penal) can work wonders. BY.
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Roger in France

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2008, 07:26:16 pm »

I entirely agree that a life sentence should mean just that. I also think that 10 years should be just that. However, it does occur to me that when  judges sets  sentences they are probably allowing for the possible remission which may be attracted. Like most folk I would prefer more significant penalties.

On the question of deterrence, I would like to see some in depth research results. Are there any?

It seems to me that if one does something in anger or in an acute state of tunnel vision it is most unlikely that the possible outcome or retribution impinges on ones action. If you plan an action it may be different, because if you have any sense your plan will include coping with or avoiding any retribution. I certainly know I have done minor things (not crimes) which had I thought about the recriminations I would not have done. The point being, I did not think.

Roger in France.
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sheerline

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2008, 08:06:19 pm »

I promised myself I would leave this topic alone but I am a weak willed begger so here it comes.
If you commit some kind of driving infringement ie, 35mph in a 30 limit or driving around with a rear light out, the law will pull you up on it. Pleading ignorance with remarks like "oh, I am sorry, I didn't realise my speed was that great or oh dear, I didn't realise my back light was out" will bring forth the officers statement, "ignorance is no excuse in law sir, the law is the law and can not be bent or adjusted to suit individuals.. and thats that!" You will then have the penalty of a fine dished out to you and no excuse under the sun will get them to drop it.
So, why in criminal cases such as theft, vandalism, mugging ,murder and rape is there some mouthpiece spouting a load of excuses such as "he comes from a broken home", or "it's the environment he lives in etc etc" or even "he was drunk or drugged at the time M'lud and was not entirely responsible for his actions" Pleading of this nature for even the most violent or obscenely nasty cases goes on every day and it appears to carry some degree of weight and consideration by the courts which can in some cases affect the overall sentencing. Why should the b-sta'rds in our society be given ANY consideration and the poor blighter who crept over the speed limit get absolutely none? As far as I am concerned, it's all down to money since the speeding fine puts money into the coffers and a gaol sentance extracts it.... the system we appear to have running these days is all about money gathering and nothing to do with true justice.
The hands of the Police are tied and they have been turned into revenue collectors in a lot of cases with the knock on effect of being despised by the populace. Underfunding and subsequent undermanning coupled with the rise of public disorder  has placed a huge workload on an already stretched force and we as a nation are now seeing the effects of it.
This is why Joe Bloggs on the street gets so ruddy angry and why there are a lot of us out here who would rather see rough justice than the watered down excuse we currently have for a penal system. Don't blame the man in the street for craving the return of capital punishment... blame successive governments for screwing up the law and protecting the human rights of every murderer,rapist,violent mugger and ferrel cretin who stalks our streets!

Rant over, now where's that bluddy rope???
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DickyD

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2008, 09:28:40 pm »

Wow !!!---------- you can borrow mine.
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bigfella

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2008, 11:58:32 pm »

After following this thread since its inception, I am surprised no-one (as far as I recall) mentioned the word "deterrent". If a criminal thought there would be a good chance that he would be caught and hauled up into a court that actually fitted the sentence to the crime I believe random criminality would decrease. For youngsters it has been my experience that taking them out of a peer group and putting them in a more disciplened environment (not penal) can work wonders. BY.

Hi BY

That was the gist of my post about mandatory sentencing. If the crims no that they will be facing a definite sentence for a crime then they could be deterred from doing said crime.  But the way it is today is the judges keep on taking years off for their past history or being bullied at school or this and that. All those things do not stop a person knowing the difference between right and wrong.

Regards David
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Martin13

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2008, 10:28:26 am »

Sheerline and Bigfella,

Well stated O0 O0 O0

Martin doon under
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kiteman1

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2008, 06:48:09 pm »

A new set of stocks in every market place coupled with a ready supply of rotten veg. might help a little.

Bring back corporal punishment as soon as possible. 

When my wife worked at the local school kids as young as five thought it ok to give her a good kicking just for being a supervisor and she couldn't retaliate.  What chance is there of stopping adults if the kids get away with it and parents aren't prosecuted or held responsible.

My eighteen month old granddaughter knows what she's doing when she tries it on so why is the criminal age of responsibility still ten?
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bigfella

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Re: Madness!
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2008, 10:10:15 pm »

Now this is Madness

I heard on the news that in the USA the remaining states that still enforce capitol punishment are having a debate about the way they are dispatching those on death row and is it humane enough. It seems that the majority of these states use lethal injection which apparently has three stages of injection, first injection calms the person down, the second makes them numb and third is the final lethal injection. It appears that the debate is about the second injection which stops the person signifying if he is in pain or not. Their is another proposed method of lethal injection that they have tested on various lab animals however it will not be considered because they cant have human trials. WHAT THE....................

Regards David

PS I was uncertain if this should have been posted in the humour section but it is actually true.
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