Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Smoke Generator smoke  (Read 6881 times)

Dan.Lord

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: Dovercourt Essex
Smoke Generator smoke
« on: September 11, 2007, 01:15:59 PM »

Hi All, I've recently  installed one of Graupner smoke generators in my Calypso, however when the smoke comes out, being white it is almost impossible to see it from more than a couple of feet away.
Does anyone know if you can add something to the smoke fluid like dye or ink to darken it up a bit, I'd also like it darker for my flower class corvette when I get around to building it.
As allways any help greatly appreciated Dan.
Logged

HS93 (RIP)

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,949
  • I cannot spell , tough
  • Location: Rainhill UK
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 01:23:01 PM »

I have heard that some people have tried adding food dye but it can be messy as it can rain down on the boat as the smoke oil can at times.

 Peter
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,359
  • Location: Halifax, UK
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2007, 02:00:38 PM »

I've heard of using food dye in the JJC units but not in the oil based ones.

The problem with the JJC units though is that the vapours ceated are heavier than air and so can fall on the model and cause staining over time.  I wouldn't bother.

As for the oil based ones I am certain that food dyes will be unpredicatable in the heating element and could solidify and cause overheating.
Logged
"Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days"

RantandRave

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 530
  • ...don't get me started!
  • Location: Middle England.....
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 02:40:44 PM »


I've seen a few of the JJC "smoke" unit and although very clever, they are no where near as good as oil burning unit!
The smoke is 'weak', doesn't linger and doesn't rise into the air......

Logged

Telstar

  • Guest
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 03:56:27 PM »

Hi
My boat has a JJC smoke unit and although the white smoke is wrong for a M T it does show fairly well. Photos if I can manage it
The swans were some 10 to 15 meters away from the bank
Logged

bigH

  • Guest
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2007, 04:33:03 PM »

   Dan, have you tried the Graupner 12v smoke generator?  I have one in my tug and the smoke can be seen from halfway across the lake.     I use Maplins smog machine oil, the kind they use in fog machines at discos, it comes in litre bottles and is as cheap as chips, it also comes in different flavours, the lads say that they can tell when iI am around as they can smell oranges in the car park.   Harry
Logged

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,894
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2007, 06:11:57 PM »

Surely, if a vessel is chucking out smoke then something is wrong with the combustion! Not being an engineer but being well aquainted with the results of "the clankies" blowing tubes without telling the bridge I can attest to how much crud can accumulate.
Old coal burners would naturally have lots of smoke....but a modern vessel? Should'nt happen.
Personally, I would like to see "old" models produce black smoke. But I also do NOT want an un-regulated heat source burried deep in the bowels of one of my models. To this end I recently approached a physics teacher pal and asked hime to find out if there are any chemicals that, when combined, produce blackish smoke. There must be, as our schoolboy class used to be able to produce any amounts of the stuff at the drop of a hat...without having the foggiest (no pun intended) idea as to how we did it. Still waiting for an answer though.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

bigford

  • Guest
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2007, 06:07:30 PM »

i know this off topic but my 2003 kenworth tractor pulling 120,000 lbs
really dose not put off black or white smoke . more like a heat  vapor
and a little puff when shifting gears.
    as bryan said if your huffing black smoke your getting oil by the rings
and if its white smoke its antifreeze. at least thats the story with big rigs
here in the states.   i dont know how a tug or any prop driven ship works
as far as being under load
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,359
  • Location: Halifax, UK
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2007, 06:19:47 PM »

Without going off at a complete tangent here, just out of interest, black smoke is the result of unburnt fuel as a result of incomplete combustion.  This is why you get it at start up of a diesel engine when the starting fuel is exhausted or as a result of the Turbo-Charger lag, if fitted.  You could also get it as a result of sudden changes of load, once again due to Turbo-Charger lag or any one of a number of injector or fuel pump faults.

Black smoke from a steamer by the way is as a result of exactly the same thing and was basically an effect of not being able to get sufficient air to the fuel to burn it.  Coal required breaking down to a fine dust for the best combustion and forced draught fans were extreemly crude if even fitted.

White smoke is usually generated as a result of lube oil burning.  This can be due to passing rings or malfunctioning cylinder lubrication systems but you can also easily mistake steam for white smoke.  This can happen when you get water into a cylinder from say a leaking head joint, exhaust cooling system or even a waste heat recovery system.
Logged
"Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days"

Dan.Lord

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: Dovercourt Essex
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2007, 09:00:44 PM »

Thanks all for the input. I wasn't really to bothered about the technically correct side of things, my Calypso is an old WWII mine sweeper & until its demise still had its original diesels, so I would assume they would puff abit of smoke, going by the D/D buses I drive & the amount of smoke they produce at a 5th of the age of Calypso, I would assume it would be like a fog bank rolling in. The other application I was going for was the Flower Corvette, which was going to be Making smoke rather a lot to hide from my U boat.

Anyway thanks for the Ideas I'll give them ago Regards Dan.
Logged

Jonty

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
  • Location: Hoselaw - facing The Cheviot (Scottish Borders)
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2007, 09:39:38 PM »

  I'm not sure about the Flower class corvettes, but many small ships had chemical smoke generators, usually mounted at the stern. Looked roughly the size of a 5 gallon drum, maybe a little larger.
Logged
I eat my peas with honey,
I've done it all my life;
It makes the peas taste funny,
But it keeps 'em on the knife.

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,894
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2007, 06:05:50 PM »

I've heard of using food dye in the JJC units but not in the oil based ones.

The problem with the JJC units though is that the vapours ceated are heavier than air and so can fall on the model and cause staining over time.  I wouldn't bother.

As for the oil based ones I am certain that food dyes will be unpredicatable in the heating element and could solidify and cause overheating.
But surely this was true in "real life", which is why most of the after lower masts were painted black. Soot happens.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

Bunkerbarge

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,359
  • Location: Halifax, UK
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2007, 10:25:06 PM »

As the dyes are carried by water vapour I'm not sure what you would end up with and as you run the risk of staining your pride and joy in a way you might not wany I would avoid without some serious experimentation first.

As for real life, agreed we enjoy nothing more than chucking out as much black stuff as we can get away with but that all rises and stains the upper masts and funnels etc.  As the JJC vapours fall they are going to stain the lower superstructure and areas that would not be stained on a real vessel and not necessarlily look correct.
Logged
"Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days"

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,089
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2008, 03:47:54 PM »

Looks like there's a new vapor steam unit on the market!

http://www.harbormodels.com/site08/main_pages/smoker.htm
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

offshore1987

  • Guest
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2008, 05:38:49 PM »

Martin that runs on oil?

Imo try the hunter smoke unit, tiss what i have fitted in my tito neri, and it works rather well, it gives a nice white'ish smoke

Thanks to M some time back i got the jjc smoke unit which works great again imo, il be fitting it in my Altona when i find one for sell.. damn things are like gold dust, il probs try the dye stuff to make the smoke black in her, then run it so i can turn the smoke unit on and off rather than on motor speed, so when coming to a stop can turn it off just before so the smoke dosnt fall back onto the model to much ( if you get me )

but for something nice and easy get the hunter unit, or if you live over the pond try the H,M ones

All the best
Logged

Tug-Kenny

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,680
  • Location: Newport. S Wales
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2008, 09:47:30 PM »


Hi offshore1987.

I also have the JJC one and find it great. I ran a bench test on a full tank of water and it ran for 36 minutes.  I use it on the continuous flow setting as well and have it to switch off by transmitter.

As these are so rare nowadays, I have also bought the Maplin's one (only 19) with the view of making it portable for a boat. However, I find it works on a mains transformer at 26 volts AC, so a few technical problems here before it will work on a boat. It does work much better in the smoke producing department and it's a well built module. We'll have to see how we get on. Anyone got any advice about 12 volt DC to 24 volt AC converters please

Ken
Logged
Despite the high cost of living   .......... It remains popular

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,568
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: Smoke Generator smoke
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2008, 01:40:57 PM »

There have been reports of at least some of the Maplin units working from a 24volt DC supply.  The varour units usually have an utrasonic doobry as the acive element, driven by an oscillator/amplifier.  This will normally be powered by DC.  It could well be that the "AC" units have their conversion circuit inside the box rather than in the mains power unit, and might work just as well off DC.  The only likely use for AC at mains frequency is as a pulsing control.
Logged
"With the right tool, you can break anything" - Garfield
Pages: [1]   Go Up